Motivation: Riding the Wave, Being Value Oriented, and Building Great Systems

In this episode we explore the psychology of motivation. We take a deep dive into how important motivation is to performance, how to ride the wave of motivation, and what systems to put in place to allow us to perform even in periods of low motivation.

Transcript

0:01

Welcome to the Backseat Driver Podcast, where we attempt to look differently at the worlds of performance, psychology, and sport. My name is Chris DeMarco, and by trade, I am a middle performance consultant. My co host, Matthew, is a doctor, avid runner, and someone who's not afraid to stir the pot, who also happens to be my brother.

Chris 0:28

Hello guys, we are in a new year,

Matt 0:31

2024. This will actually probably be our second episode by the time it drops, but the first one we've recorded in the new year.

Chris 0:38

Yeah, we are, we are recording this on New Year's day, actually. So we're feeling super motivated and that was my corny intro into today's topic of motivation. Um, something that I wanted to talk about with you today and discuss to kind of give. People ideas on, you know, really what motivation is, um, how important it is. What do we do about it? Cause I don't know about you, but I do love the transition into a new year. Uh, it gives me, it's kind of a personal tradition, I guess you would say, uh, where I really reflect on years past to kind of look on the things that I did. Uh, accomplished maybe didn't accomplish, and then also looking forward to the new year. And I'm sure many people have something similar about that, but what it does is helps me feel motivated. And, uh, so kind of gave this, this is certainly something I talk about with clients and athletes of mine. And so I wanted to use this opportunity to discuss and share

Matt 1:44

some ideas on it. Yeah. Chris had this idea and we'll kind of take a deep dive into. What motivation is and isn't, and then we'll take a dive deep dive into the pitfalls of motivation that people seem to fall into from a thought perspective. And then from there, we'll kind of go into some, some action steps for you guys. So. I'm super excited about this episode. Let's go ahead and get started.

Chris 2:06

Yeah. So I wanted to start with defining motivation. And it's like the, uh, a classic way that people like to start presentation things, let's define the word. Um, but I did, I did want to start with it of what, what is it? Cause I think we all kind of know what motivation is, but let's put some words to it. So the dictionary definition is the general desire or willingness of someone to do something. That makes sense to me. Um, so what are your initial thoughts

Matt 2:33

on that? Yeah, I think when I think of motivation, I definitely think of the, the desire aspect, the, you know, a lot of times I think in terms of desires, affections is a, a word that comes up in Christianity a lot to kind of describe what you want to do. Um, I think it, it really is a word that kind of captures the things that your heart or mind wants to do the most. At its core now how that plays out practically on a day to day I think is very important But but those are some of the words I generally associate with motivation are those words around deep desires purpose You know, reason for doing something, drive, things like that. So, I think those are all words that I would attach to this definition or to this idea. This

Chris 3:28

definition is a little bit contradictory to me. I want to hear what you think about this. But, it says the general desire or willingness. To me those are two very different things.

Matt 3:42

That's true. Yeah, I, I certainly think of Well,

Chris 3:48

yeah, because I, I desire a

Matt 3:50

lot of things. Yeah, there's certainly, there's certainly different words with very different meanings. I think both are probably required or underscore different aspects of motivation though, right? Like I was just listening to a podcast, the Nick bear podcast, and he's talking to Harvey Lewis, who just ran a backyard ultra, where he ran for four days, straight four miles every hour for 450 miles. And in the episode, four

Chris 4:18

miles every hour for 400 and wait,

Matt 4:21

so four days straight, he ran four miles every hour. So how was he alive? So the four, the format of backyard ultras is you run four point. One, six miles every hour, basically, and you have to start on the hour. So you have an hour to do that. And then you start again, the next top of the next hour. And so he did that for four straight days. So 450 miles comes out to about a hundred hours. Um, but you think about this idea of, yeah, he had a desire, but there also has to be a willingness to endure whatever the things that are going to accompany that. Right. And so I think we'll get, we'll get into this a little bit, but I think both of those words do. Aspects of a motivation that are very important.

Chris 5:09

Yeah. I kind of think about this in my own life and I'll share one of the resolutions or goals or whatever you want to call it for this year for me is to read more. I love reading. And when I do get to reading, it's something I enjoy a lot and I learn a lot. And so it's something I always obviously want to do more of. But the desire has been there and that's something that has been for, for quite some time. But if I'm being honest with myself, the willingness probably hasn't been as much as I would like to based on the fact that I'm not happy with how much I got to this year in terms of books and, and, um, the amount of reading that I did.

Matt 5:48

Yeah, I, this is a, a fundamental concept that I talk to people a lot about and you actually brought it up in one of the episodes, which. Is this concept of do you really value it? And that is actually shown by your actions. So this comes up all the time for me talking to people, whether it's in Christianity, whether it's in my office medically, whether it's just friend to friend running, because you just said something that I think is really important to this discussion, which is intellectually, you think you desire it, but then the outcomes not happening. So clearly there's a disconnect between what you're actually desiring, which is probably. You know, not having to do something or like being tired and, uh, wanting to just relax and thinking that that thing requires work that you don't necessarily want to put in. So I think that disconnect is really important to highlight, especially in the motivation episode, because I think that actually drives this disconnect. And talking about new year's resolutions, I think a lot of people in their head have this idea of a desire to do something differently this year or a goal or. You know, lose weight or be stronger or do a certain race or just generally be healthier. But that, that gap that lies between that desire and then the actual execution is usually a kind of more foundational desire that that is actually the thing they truly want that they may not even be aware of consciously. And that usually derails these things if you're not. Yeah,

Chris 7:25

I love that. Like being very clear on what you actually do desire and being honest with yourself. And I think that's something as I was reflecting is like, what, what do I actually desire? And I think this is something hopefully that's been on my mind long enough that I'm willing to, to make the changes necessary. And that kind of gets into a point that I wanted to bring up based on what you said. And this is something I share with athletes. A lot of times is, If you want something to change, something has to change and it sounds stupid and like, duh, but it's so true. Um, I briefly talked about my experimenting with waking up earlier, but I was going through life long enough to be like, okay, I want to work out and I want to read. These are the two things that I want to do, but I'm not getting to. And it's been a consistent, I have a large enough sample size now to know that like. This isn't happening. So for something to change, something has to change. And so I was like, let me try waking up earlier, you know, those types of things. And so, so that's kind of where I go with this. If you have a resolution or a goal in mind and. It's different than what you're kind of on the path of now then something has to change in your life. There's no Way around that.

Matt 8:46

Yeah, it's like the old saying that if you always do what you've always done You're always gonna get what you've always got or something like

Chris 8:52

that I like your face during that because you got in the middle of it. We're like, I don't know

Matt 8:56

basically that idea You know, and Sandy is doing the same thing over and over again, but I, I do think that applies to how people approach motivation and thinking, okay, just cause I want something, it's going to like change. And before that episode, when we were talking, we talked about that James clear quote, where he basically says from the guy who wrote atomic habits, atomic habits, a great book. I actually put it on all of my patient handouts. It's on every single one of them because. It's so foundational to this idea of like, okay, I have a desire, but then how do I actually practically make it so it happens? And he has this quote that I love. It's one of the, I think the most important quotes that I kind of operate out of from, uh, just. Foundational perspective. But he basically says you do not rise to the level of your goals. You fall to the level of your systems, meaning, and Chris is going to get into this in a second. Motivation is the goal. You know, motivation kind of is that thing. It's that vision. It's pointing you towards your goal, but ultimately on those days where motivation is low, where the desire may be low, you're going through a hard season, whatever it is, you're going to fall to whatever the system. That you have built is, and that kind of goes back to your book reading example, even, you know, the system you have built, it wasn't clearly it wasn't built to read books. Right. So, so it has to change. Right. And so I think that was kind of Chris's main idea for this episode is thinking about people think, Oh, motivation, that desire, it's going to carry you and carry you. And that'll be the thing that keeps you coming back to the gym or the thing that keeps you eating healthier. Whatever your goal keeps you showing up every morning at 5 AM for those runs. But as we both know from just having been in athletics for a long time and also work with people that have goals that often is one of the least important things.

Chris 10:58

Yeah, I mean, it goes back to, if anyone listened to the episode a couple of weeks ago of like, I don't care what you think, I don't care how you feel. I mean, this to me, motivation is just a feeling and I actually don't value it a ton in with people because I'm feeling motivated right now because there's new goals. There's, you know, there's a novelty to things and that's always usually a little bit motivating. But I know that it's gonna run out. I know that in maybe three weeks to a month I'm not gonna be feeling the same motivation that I'm feeling right now for the goals that I have so what's to your point what systems can I put in place that are going to stand the test of a motivation drop right that can Lead to more what I am much more interested in with people, which is commitment toward your goals or toward your values. And, and that's to me is like, I don't even really talk about motivation that much with people because it's one of those things that comes up and down naturally with different seasons of life. And, uh, you come off a break, you're usually more energized, motivated. Um, if you're kind of in the middle of a long season or a long stretch of work. You know, you're not going to be waking up, jumping out of bed every morning all the time. And that's okay. It's what is, what is the commitment that you have and how do you get there with

Matt 12:28

it? Yeah, I think this is where value work becomes very. Important. I think a lot of times about people who are able to endure lots of suffering for whatever purpose, you know, whether it's you read Viktor Frankl from world war two when he was in the concentration camps and he writes, um, my gosh, what's the book, give me a description. Oh my gosh. It's like purpose of life or the meaning of life or something. Uh, purpose driven life. No, no, that's, that's totally anyway. Uh, look it up. It's his most famous work, but he basically writes this idea of how. The people whose values were the most clear to them in the concentration camps were often the people who were able to survive. And I think this is where there's a kind of dichotomy with motivation a little bit where yes, your values are tied up in motivation a little bit, but on the days where the desire or the, that feeling again, coming back to this feeling idea, that feeling of motivation is gone. If you still have clear picture, like a clear picture of your purpose, a clear picture of your values and what. And what drives those and ultimately why you're doing it, then that is able to kind of keep you going and keep you on the path towards whatever goal you've set, even when you may not feel like doing it that day. And so I think it is very, very nuanced, even as I'm saying it to, you know, some people I think would say, well, that's still a feeling, right? And I would say. Maybe, maybe you could argue that, but I think it's much more, there's much more of a permanence to kind of my purpose is X. And that allows me to take steps towards that. Even when it's far off, even when I don't necessarily feel like moving towards that, I know ultimately that's the thing that I'm

Chris 14:19

working towards. Yeah. I think what you're getting it to me, you're getting it to, like you said, values work and really connecting to your Y or your purpose, however you want to define that. To your point of, oh, well, people might argue that's a feeling like to me, that's deeper. There's a That that's a much deeper sin Sensation or whatever you want to call it then. Oh, it's a new year. I'm gonna feel motivated for about two weeks You know, like that's just a much long, more long term, um, connected system.

Matt 14:58

Right, right. Yeah. And I think it's also that idea of as things get hard with motivation and that motivation waning, are you going to stick with it? And that's kind of what I think you're saying too, is motivation's very, because it is very transient and the feeling it can come and go easily. It's not going to sustain you through those, those harder times, whereas. Usually if it's a, you know, your purpose, you know, your values and you hold those things clearly in front of you and you have a clear plan, you're going to be able to march towards those things. Even when there is again, like we talked about earlier, sacrifice, suffering, you know, you're going to have to have that willingness to endure some of those things, by the way, it was meaning of life by Victor Franco. I looked it up.

Chris 15:41

Thanks for clarifying. So one of the things that kind of comes to mind as we're talking about this. And I know you, I'm pretty sure you agree with this point, but I am, I will say I'm fortunate to be around a lot of high performing people. And one of the things that sticks out to me is I can't really tell how they're feeling. The high performing, I mean, the lower performing people, you can tell, you know, it's like there's a big difference. Yeah. But I think that's. That stands out to me in the sense of like their actions don't necessarily change Based on how they're feeling and that is really important like to me. That is the difference between kind of your common average person versus like people that have figured out How to get to these higher levels of different domains, which is like, this is, you know, I, whatever my plan is for Tuesday, August 5th, that's actually your brain that was random, um, is. These are the things that need to happen and these are things that are going to happen It doesn't matter if I wake up and feel great to that day or if I wake up and feel below average Those things are happening and there's kind of just that clarity That happens and it's like it doesn't matter how I feel. That's what's happening Now the thing about motivation that I will say is like it feels good It's nice when you have it and when you do have it Like ride the wave, you know, like enjoy it, but also recognize that that's not going to, uh, it's going to be

Matt 17:20

temporary. Yeah. I would say on the performance side, one, one caveat or pushback, or I don't know, maybe the best word, but that I think about with my own running that comes up, I think in a lot of athletes and a lot of people just who are doing stuff at a high level is this, and this kind of harkens back to the wearables episode, but there is an element of when motivation starts to decline a lot consistently. It is kind of a check engine light, at least for me, you know, and this happened actually last week, there were two days in a row where I didn't want to wake up to run, which for me is unusual. And so that usually is a kind of, okay, let's, let's examine what's going on here. Am I sick? Did I, is there a lot of extra stress? And when you look at it, it's pretty clear. There's a lot of extra travel for the holidays, less consistent sleep, less consistent eating, all those things. Plus a long 12 weeks of training before that. So all those things added together to basically make three or four days where I just felt a little bit more rundown. And so for me, I made the decision to take an easy week of training, kind of reset going into the new year for, for Boston training. So I do think that is a, a caveat of motivation that is. Is important, especially for people who are in tune with their bodies, not necessarily a hundred percent in line with this discussion, but if you are on the more high performing side or someone that's pretty in tune with what's going on, I think motivation can be useful in, in that way, if you see a significant trend

Chris 18:51

that, yeah, there, there is nuance to it. And, and I am actually glad you brought that up. So yes, being rigid is not great almost ever. Um, and to your point, it's actually really cool how you utilize. It is like a reflection period, like, okay, why, you know, why am I not feeling motivated? And then you came up with a pretty logical explanation of yeah, like all of these things combined makes sense How my body and mind maybe doesn't want to do these things and that's okay And you made a decision you were flexible enough to kind of adjust as needed Um, but also recognizing like, okay, maybe you get some rest in that time period That probably comes back up. It's like, you know, the stock market comes up, it goes down, it comes back up. Like it always is fluctuating. And I think recognizing, cause that's the mistake that I see people is like, when you're more motivated, we always think we're going to be motivated. And then when we're not motivated, we always think we're not going to be motivated and it's like recognizing that the opposite is coming and preparing for it.

Matt 20:04

Yeah, I think the, uh, the, the bigger point you're hitting on here is having systems in place, having a plan in place. For what you just described the ups and the downs so realizing when things are going well I love what that term use I'm gonna steal that ride the wave kind of the waves taking you it requires little energy little thought You know a lot less kind of inertia to get yourself going But when you're in those periods of lower motivation You really want to make sure that you are doing the things necessary to put yourself in a position to succeed so that that for me looks like Okay, making sure that I'm getting enough sleep because when I think about what this looks like practically for me I think mostly in my my running there are a couple other areas, but just ease ease of example for running waking up Right. Most of my runs happen at 530 to 6 a. m. So what's the first thing to go and motivation goes down? It's getting out of bed, especially during the winter So you have to have systems in place to help you make sure you're doing those things. So so for me, that's How do I make sure I go to bed on time? How do I make sure I'm eating well? How do I make sure that? All these other things are kind of dialed in from a systems perspective so that, okay, yeah, even if I'm feeling less than motivated on a 30 degree day to go run, I have all these other things in place that kind of keep me, keep me on track. Almost think of these guardrails that you can kind of go back and forth between, but the guardrails kind of keep you, keep you going the right way, no matter what, unless there's something severe that kind of takes you outside those guardrails. I like that analogy.

Chris 21:49

That's, that's cool. Like in that, that's. point of the system. You have that in place. And so, and that's a perfect example of when the motivation isn't there, you have the system in place to at least give you a really good chance to have commitment toward what you're trying to

Matt 22:07

achieve. Yeah. I mean, how many, we use this example in the last episode or two episodes ago, but. The guy that basically said if I only worked out in days, I felt motivated before I started I've worked out ten times a year It's it's not that often that we're gonna feel super amped in

Chris 22:24

this is in It's a great point because I want to spend a second on this which is This is kind of a maybe a different way to think about it is I make the argument that Anyone can do great things when they're motivated. That's not what separates you It's who can do, uh, you know, the, the committed actions that you want for your life when you're not, that's what separates you. Yeah, the separation doesn't occur when everyone's feeling good. Anyone, and that's kind of, this is like to use a sports analogy and specifically like tennis with tennis players, there'll be like, I'll be like, how did it go? And they're like, I didn't play that well. And they're disappointed by that. But I'm like, that's where you separate yourself. Because you don't always control whether you play well or not that fluctuates up and down So that's something that I, I share with some of the athletes is it's way more important to me that, or for yourself that when you're not playing well or not feeling good, those are the days where you separate yourself. So almost in a way, like you can look forward to those days. Um, and that, that kind of changes the mindset of like, Oh crap. Like I hope I play well tomorrow versus like, actually, if I don't, that's a great opportunity for me to learn how to. Make the most out of those days so that I can separate myself from most people who don't have that mindset

Matt 23:57

Yeah, I think this really matters especially and a lot of sports you work with like cross country Hockey tennis golf sports where you're playing a lot or you have a lot of matches games You know, if you run the marathon you run twice a year Maybe you hit home runs both times right but in these these sports where it's long seasons lots of matches You're probably only giving you play in your absolute best 5 percent of the time maybe So finding ways to be consistently good, even in those other 95 percent of times is like you're saying that really the hallmark. And I think from a, a doctor's perspective, this, while that sounded very grandiose, um, where I see this, the most is anyone, you know, low performers, high performers, medium performers can do a diet for two weeks, four weeks, right? Anyone can do something for a couple of weeks. The people that are actually the healthiest usually are the people that even on days where they're less motivated on even on End times where life is a little bit more hectic They're still getting out the door and exercising a little bit or they're still having systems in place to meal prep or eat healthy So that that becomes part of their lifestyle, you know Part of it's part it becomes part of who they are going back to that values or purpose thing So it becomes much more intrinsic to who they are rather than this thing that They're solely pursuing for for whatever reason they're pursuing it. Um, and I think that really Allows you to be consistently good Most of the time versus having this yo yo of like i'm feeling really up for two weeks I'm on the keto diet and then oh I You know, had a bad day at work. So eight, 24 doughnuts. And then I take a week off cause I'm feeling guilty. And then, you know, it's just this yo yo of life.

Chris 25:48

I like that way of describing of like lifestyle. And I think I've heard many people, um, say that about their job. Like I think LeBron James, you know, he describes it. He's like, he's like, it's a lifestyle. The way I take care of my body, the way I go about my craft, that's how he describes it. And so like, like you said, so those habits are so ingrained that he almost like doesn't even know how to live without some of those things. And that's, that's kind of cool when you can get to that point. Um, one other thing I wanted to just touch on as you were talking was I talking, kind of going back a little bit to like the. Playing really good or playing really bad or feeling really good feeling really bad One of the ways this is maybe just how I think about things Um is almost like any good research study you throw out the outliers at the top and the bottom Yeah, you throw out the top five percent in the bottom five percent And you take the majority, which is like the 90%. And to me, again, that's way more where I'm interested in. There's going to be 5 percent of days where you feel great and things go well and you play well. Awesome. Congratulations. There's going to be 5 percent of days where nothing goes right. You feel like crap that happens to everyone. What is happening in the 90%? Yeah.

Matt 27:09

So, yeah, I think that's good. I think I'm going to flip it to you in one sec to talk about. Strategies to improve motivation strategies to improve kind of this consistency, things like that. Before I do that, I, I feel like at this point of the show or this point of the podcast, there people are probably starting to sense themes throughout our first, however many, you know, 12, 13, however many episodes we're at now. And I hope that for people that listen consistently, you're starting to notice. Almost what I would call our brand or the things that define our approach are very consistency based. They're very, um, you know, intrinsically based. They're very value oriented. All these things that are relatively stable, not flashy. Um, they're not going to get you a lot of likes on Instagram. Usually they're not going to be things that make you the headliner on a catchy news article, but there are things that work, there are things that. Chris season pro athletes from multiple different sports. So this is something that, you know, from my perspective, when I see the runners who are most successful that I've run with, they all exhibit these characteristics as well. These are, these are the, the real ways that people perform at a high level for a consistent period of time and and it just helps sort through a lot of what, what you hear, what you see, especially in the world of social media now.

Chris 28:44

Yeah, it's, it's hard to sift through and I'm glad you brought it up because If there's a difference between what works and what looks good, what works and what sounds good and then also, um, to kind of summarize, I think a theme for me in my work and maybe you've heard this over some of our episodes is like actions over feelings, just that is way I'm way more interested in what are your actions and now today kind of adding in like, what are your systems in place? Because that's ultimately. Yeah, absolutely. Is gonna define what actually happens in your life, in your day to day life, and that is like, I think that's backwards to how a lot of people think about it, at least from my experience, and that was kind of backwards to what I was taught growing up, which is all of these feelings matter so much, and We need to feel motivated and to kind of add in something on the, on the motivation topic is I, I share this with coaches all the time. If you feel like you need to motivate your players as a primary purpose of your job, you're screwed. That that's, that's problem. Number one, like motivate. Cause, cause I see this all the time of these like motivational speeches that coaches give. And I mean, I had this throughout my whole career was like motivation was such a huge part of the coach's role. Looking back on it, I never needed motivation. I was so ready to play all the time. That, that is like, that's like I said, that's your first problem. That's if that's your, you feel like that's necessary, then we need to dig into that. Do your players actually want to be there? Does your, and you could do this in a business setting. Does your staff really, are they connected to their purpose of their job and their why, and some of their future goals, all of these things. And so I don't even really. Like when I do, when I am the primary coach for a team or something, motivation's not something I really talk about that much or, or use, there's a time and place for it. Certainly. And like a good motivational speech every once in a while can have its place, but that's, I don't know. That's just something that kind of like irks me when I see these coaches and they're like, go to thing is like a motivational

Matt 31:14

talk. Yeah. You're saying if, if on a consistent daily or weekly basis or for games or. You know, mostly probably for more off season stuff practice. If you're having to convince your players that this is important. That this is something that is going to be crucial to the team winning. Then you're already, you've basically already lost the battle. That has to be something that, and it wears off

Chris 31:39

too, right? For sure. Because I mean, I worked with the, this will be my second year with the battery. It's like a 10 month season. You think they play, they play almost 40 games. Like, what are you going to give a motivational speech before every single game? Like, no, this going back to, no, it goes back to the systems and the habits that you have in place because you just can't give 40 motivational speeches and it connects every time. You might be able to throw in one or two at timely, um, moments and that, and that's fine. But if I heard 40 motivational speeches over the course of the year, I'm like, all right, come

Matt 32:11

on. No, I think that's a great, a great point to kind of cap that first part of the discussion. So. For these last couple of minutes, I, I'm curious. I'm sure people are curious. What are some of the, and I can chime in here on what I do in my office, but what are some of the things that you work on with people to either work on motivation when it, when it is needed, but also to kind of create the right framework for them to be successful and operate in a more sustainable way. I know we've touched on some of them, value setting, reflection. Um, making sure they understand their purpose, things like that. Are there any other ones we haven't touched on or, or more specifics on that, that you would go into?

32:51

Yeah,

Chris 32:51

I think one for me personally, but also one that I, I share with people cause in certain contexts is lax is breaks. I think breaks are a great way to kind of naturally build back motivation. I mean, just for example, I took this last week off, like nine or 10 days over the holidays and I'm ready to go. And that's like nothing happened. I didn't need a motivational speech. I just got away from it for a few days. And that's huge. Um, so I think that's an, probably, I don't know if underrated is the right word, but maybe underutilized in certain. Um, at least some of the environments that I'm in, um, that's kind of natural.

Matt 33:35

Yeah. Like you can fall off both sides of the wagon. There's definitely a people that are so inconsistent, but then you can have people and that's almost, I've, I find myself more in the over consistent camp where you're so committed to being consistent. You're so committed to showing up every day. That you actually never give yourself time to reset or recover or actually take on the the work that you've done or or another thing I see especially in some of these athletes listening to them or talking to them is Having this fear that someone's always getting ahead like like the kind of the external Yeah thing. Yes of oh if I take a break if I reset that's that's a week where someone else is practicing and I'm not And again, going back to this idea, which I really like, but playing the long game. Someone said that to me last week about something completely unrelated, but I really, I really thought it was a good, uh, a good phrase to think about for so many things of playing this long game, where if I'm focused on the next three months and that's driving my decision to kind of step away, take a week off, whatever I'm trying to decide, then I'm probably so short term focused. That I'm not going to have that long term vision that I need to

Chris 34:49

be successful. Yeah. And if that's, if that's something you struggle with, cause that's definitely something I've run into multiple times, which is I don't want to take a break because I'm so committed to what I do. And like, that's obviously there's some great things about that, but the analogy I use with that, going back to the kind of a fundamental equation of stress plus rest equals growth. Like if I work out, if I do a bicep curl every day, I'm actually not growing. I'm not getting stronger because the growth occurs during the rest after I've stressed my body. And so, you know, you're doing like the least efficient process. And, um, you know, for me taking this week off, like sure. Could I have gotten work done during it? Yes. But I actually think of it as. It's going to amplify the work that I do going forward in the next couple of weeks because I rest them and so I think it's actually more efficient to Take a break when you need to reset to restore some of that natural motivation that comes with it And then the work that you do is going to actually be more productive Um in the future, so that's kind of the way I think about it is actually more efficient

Matt 36:07

Yeah, I know and going almost to the the Other side of the spectrum of motivation, which is burnout. I think you run the risk of burnout when you never take in. Sure. It's, it's good to be, you know, consistent and show up. But if you do that with no breaks, no reset, not in just from a physical perspective, you don't let your body recoup. It will break down at some point. And usually that training time that you're going to lose is going to be a lot larger than a couple of days or a week. Or two weeks if it's your off season to kind of reset and that that's where you fall behind I heard someone say the other day. It's fine. If you miss a workout, you know drops drops of water in a bucket but you Train through a little niggle or you And kind of get so burnt out mentally that you're missing two weeks, three weeks, four weeks, you know, that's, that's the difference is you, you usually on the flip side, if you don't take that rest, the period you're missing is usually months, not a couple of days.

Chris 37:07

And like you said, it can be physical or mental. Yeah. Um, yeah, that, that's a, that's a great point.

Matt 37:13

So that's, that's one that I. I definitely have seen, experienced, you know, talk to people about a lot. I

Chris 37:21

have, I have one more, but I wanted to give you a chance.

Matt 37:25

But I think from a, from a, my perspective in my office of the discussions I'm having with my patients, most of the time, this centers around values. It boils down to, do you actually care about this or not? Because in those moments where you don't feel like doing it, you're going to have to have something that allows you to continue to push through that. And that's what, that's what I see the most is, and that helps you set up the systems that are sustainable is having that value or purpose driven reason for doing whatever you're doing, whether it's waking up early to exercise, whether it's. Eating healthier, whatever those things are. I usually find myself coming back to that conversation first and foremost and then secondarily coming to the conversation of systems and habits because so much of of life whether we want it to be or not is automaticity and

Chris 38:26

It's people are you you are Basically your, your habits. I mean, that's what you are. I mean,

Matt 38:32

the, the reason people are generally very consistent is because they have very consistent habits. And, and so I try to help my patients set up habits that are sustainable, repeatable, and healthy, really it, the most fundamental, I

Chris 38:52

think everyone has consistent habits, it's just not always the ones. I mean, so if I sit on the couch and watch TV at night and I don't want to be doing that, it's still

Matt 39:02

consistent. Yeah. So I, this isn't so much in a motivation perspective, I guess, but, uh, probably has some overlap, but I always start with just something small, something small, something easily done. It may not be groundbreaking overnight. So I usually start with the two minute rule. That's one of my main things. Whether it's, whether it's for a specific task you're doing or whether it's trying to change a habit. So the two minute rules, basically. Hey, I want you to go do this thing for two minutes. So it can be exercise, it can be meal prep, it can be reading a book. It basically just saying if you don't have that habit now, or you want to accomplish that task that day and you don't feel like it, just do it for two minutes. So that's usually where I have people start. I like that. Um, so in James clear talks about that, but you know, these micro atomic, because once you start,

Chris 39:54

you're more, much more likely to continue writing that thing.

Matt 39:57

Yeah. So that's, that's kind of my, one of my foundational principles. For this and it touches on motivation, touches on habits, touches on all these things that I think are really important to this. I'll plug atomic habits again. I mean, it's just, it is such a, it's a good book on the theoretical side, but it's so practical and he has really good resources. If you buy the book, you get access to a lot of his resources. So that's, that would be my plug for a book. If you're looking for further study or further reading from this episode. Would be go check that out and just see some of the things other books that I've really liked in this space power of habit By Charles Duhigg and then he has a second book better faster stronger better. That's right something like that But just look up Charles Duhigg D U H I G G, I believe And he has some really good resources on this as well. And then you mentioned find your why Simon Simon Sinek. Yep So those are all further reading, further study. If this is a topic you feel like you struggle with or something that you're just curious about, I think those are all good resources to kind of continue the discussion. I know you had one more thing. Did you want to finish up with that? Just

Chris 41:08

wanted to touch on if things start to get stale. And I think that's, this is where people can maybe start to get frustrated. And that's where me and you differ a little bit. I think you love consistency and you love routine. For me, I like it for a period of time, but then it kind of feels stale to me. And so where I've gone with this in the past, and I really like it is I'll tinker a little bit, tinker. I don't know if I said that right. That's right. But, um, where basically I'm trying to just, I just kind of move things around a little bit or just try different things. Sometimes it's minimal. Um, and sometimes it's kind of somewhat drastic if I really feel like I need. Just things to be spiced up a little bit But the way I do it it where it's not just completely random is i'll take I define my life into like seasons, right? So for me season one of this year is january 1st to like march 15th Cause there's going to be similar weather, similar for different reasons, similar kind of work patterns. And so over that period of time, I pick a routine that I want, that's going to fit with my current schedule. And I kind of give it a sample size of like eight to 10 weeks. And then I kind of review that at that checkpoint of like, is this something I want to continue with? Or is it kind of getting boring? Or is there a way I feel like can be more effective and efficient with it? In that next kind of two month a season of of the year And so for me that helps break it down because even like I don't know if anyone can relate to this But if I'm like, all right, I'm gonna do this for the next 365 days Like that is the worst thing I can possibly think. Yeah, like that is the most demotivating Principle and maybe that works for something while it's great, but it doesn't for me. So it's almost like I take it in sections of You know, like I, like I said, so, and, and that kind of helps, helps me do that. It also allows for some, a lot of consistency, but enough change to keep it fresh. Yeah.

Matt 43:09

Now, I think, I think those are all good points. It's, it's funny cause like you said, I do love consistency, but even me and other people I know that are really consistent. Like that and love that kind of repeatable same thing kind of stale routine We naturally break our years up a little bit So my year this year is gonna be broken up into having a new baby and then well Shelby's gonna have the baby We're gonna have a new baby in our house And then Boston and then probably a little bit of offseason. I might dabble in triathlon You know just kind of something a little different for a month. It sounds similar, right? Exactly But it's it's more it happens a little bit more naturally. I think it just happens like no one They're very unless you know, sometimes you do pick a goal for the year You have one big objective, but even that is usually broken down into two smaller little things So I think that is a core principle no matter who you're looking at that people do whether it's conscious or subconscious I think some of the high performers do a lot of these things Not subconsciously almost they may not be able to to verbalize it or spell it out this clearly if you look at how their Schedules are set up how they think how they process information How they set goals a lot of times it follows these exact same principles that you were just mentioning eight to twelve weeks at a Time three to four months at a time smaller goal leading up to a bigger goal a little bit of rest

Chris 44:42

So, no, I mean, that's, that's really good. And I think that's a good summary. Um, and we can probably, I think it's a good way to end, um, and leave it, leave it with that. So, um, thanks for listening. Um, any, any shout outs or final words? Happy new year. Yeah. Yes. Good luck. And maybe if anyone wants to interact or shoot us some of their ideas for resolutions or goals or things they want to do, um, Or questions. Um, that's certainly something we want to do this year with, with you guys is kind of have questions come in for, for topics that you think would

Matt 45:18

be interesting. Yeah. We'd love to hear topic ideas. You can shoot us DMS on Instagram. Um, you know, we'd love to hear what people want to hear us talk about and, uh, keep as relevant as possible. So with that, thanks for listening guys. And we'll see you next week.