Who Should Sit At Your Roundtable?

In this episode we explore the question of who should sit at your personal roundtable? What qualities should those people possess, how many people can you fit at your table, and how can those people help you grow as a person? This episode dives into all of those questions and more! 
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Transcript

Matt: 0:00

Hello everyone, and welcome to this week's edition of the Backseat Driver podcast. We are going to piggyback a little bit off of our last conversation about things we have been learning and dive into a specific question about criteria to sit at our round table. So this is a question that we got from someone that we respect and we were just kind of interested to sit down and discuss it a little bit more in detail, because I think. I want to know what Chris is thinking. I also want to know what I'm thinking. And then I also think it'd be really cool for people to sit down and think about it for themselves, because I do think it is something that is. It's very important to know who those people are, why those people are there and what they bring to the table.

Chris: 0:47

Yeah. So one of the, one of the reasons I think this question came up for us and why we're discussing this is we just talked about in our previous episode, one of the segments was on, don't worry about what other people think of you as much. And that's certainly true, but it's. Good to get feedback from people too. So it's not what we're not saying is don't care about what anyone thinks at all times, right? It's most of the time we probably shouldn't really put too much emphasis into it But there are certain people in our lives that we should put weight into what they say and and kind of just determining like who those people are in our in our lives And why like you said why they're there and I think it's kind of funny Because we just asked ourselves this question Going into this and it's definitely took some time and some thought like I was expressed I was like, this is a really hard question. Like why are the people that we trust people that we

Matt: 1:42

trust? Yeah, I was telling Chris like the You know, the simplest, easiest cop out answer for me is Oh, people that are Christian, because for me, that's my chief identity. And, and I think he kind of challenged me. It's he's like, okay, there's, there's a lot of people that identify as Christian, right? It's not like you would hold all those people to the same level and put all of them at your round table. And I thought, okay, that's a fair affair. Point. So what is it about specific people that makes you want to trust them, to bring them into the inner sanctum, to go through those hard decisions with them, to run a difficult things by them. So we kind of want to dive into that. And I think it will be a good discussion because I have a feeling we're not going to have the same things, which I think will highlight some of the differences probably in our personalities and where we're at in life even possibly.

Chris: 2:34

Yeah. And I think, I think the goal really of this is just to have. Everyone think about this. I think it's a good exercise for us, but then hopefully, you know, if you're listening to this, thinking about these things as well you know, one of the first thing that, that comes up to me is I had something relatively recently, as far as like, I wanted advice on is who did I go to, right? Like a life dilemma or, or kind of question mark or thinking about a life change, like who's, who do you go to in those situations? And there was definitely certain people I naturally gravitated toward. And so. That's probably a sign of who, but more thinking about like,

Matt: 3:13

why? Yeah, I can think of four to five people for me. And so I was trying to think through what are the characteristics? And the funny thing is they are kind of all over the board. So I think just getting us kicked off here. One of my first things is someone that's ahead of you. So I don't think I necessarily would want everyone at my roundtable to be ahead of me, but if I had a five to seven per, I think. And this, I guess I'll kick it off with this. One of the foundational principles probably for me in making a round table, right, is how many people can sit at it.

Chris: 3:47

Yeah, so what's

Matt: 3:48

yours? I would say the the most inner roundtable probably five max I think three people that are really Consistently in your life and maybe two people you're really close to that You maybe don't see all the time So I'd say five is probably where I would or the other way to you see a lot in life and then three I I think people would Argue with me on that and say, no, I can have seven. I can have 10. I would argue back that those may have been people you were close to in the past. Those may be good friends, but those are not people that are sitting at your round table for big decisions or advice in life consistently. And this is, people are going to have different opinions on this, so that's fine. But that's kind of where I stand. I'd say it's about five people for me. I think that's partially life experience. The value I put on community of like how close those relationships should be. To be someone that's actually sitting my table. So that'd be my my two cents.

Chris: 4:48

I'm not gonna disagree with that I i'm trying I want to disagree with that, but I don't think I do I'd probably say it's it's similar if anything, it might even be less for me like I was just saying, okay, I come Have a life decision that I really want advice on I'm not gonna call seven people I'm gonna call probably I'm probably gonna make two or three maybe four phone calls or meetings with people So realistically, that's probably the number is somewhere to me between like three and five on like the inner inner You know, there's definitely other people like you said that I might value their advice in certain contexts you know, like there might be someone if it's a sports psychology question, a former classmate, right, that I'm close with, but I wouldn't put them on the inner table of my life. So maybe there's to give that as well as like, there's maybe contextual roundtables, right? maybe you have medical people that you trust. But I guess for life, if we're talking just like my life, it's probably.

Matt: 5:48

Three to five and I think that's backed by research if you I can't remember what studies was from but they did basically these concentric circles and Everyone wants to believe they have higher capacity than they do and they were like you really can only have three to five close friends Like really close friends. Everyone wants to think that all those people in that second circle, that's like 10 to 15 people big is like, that's, that's their close friends. But the research has shown pretty consistently that the closest, closest friends, you really only have time and capacity for three to five of them.

Chris: 6:20

It's true. Because what, what makes someone close is time and you can't spend that much time with 10 different people. I

Matt: 6:28

mean, it's just physically impossible. We've just gone off on a tangent so far, so we'll try to rein back in. But I think this is important because this is very much like a cultural thing where we think people that stand in certain areas of life are our inner circle and I would just push back or at least ask people to think about that and be like, is that really the depth of relationship you want defining your inner circle? And I would just be like. You might want to see if there's something deeper that that could define the inner circle for you. So anyway, coming back. So my first one was, what's your number

Chris: 6:59

one outside of Christian? How could we talk about that? What, what's your number one?

Matt: 7:04

I went back and forth. I have, I have two that are very different and I don't know which one would be more important, but I think I would want someone who was Someone that has big vision, like a vision person that can really think ahead, someone that is able to see the big picture of possibilities, someone that's a dreamer, but I also think probably most important for me if I was being mature about my answer would actually be someone who's the opposite of me. So I say that because I have two people. If I'm including my wife and one other person who are pretty, if I'm just laying out characteristics, they're pretty opposite of me, but I think those are actually the people that are most important that keep me from kind of going off the rails. Shelby is very. I talked about things we were learning episode. She's very in tune with people's needs. She's very in tune with emotions. She's very in tune with like things like that. And that's just not my natural bent. I just move forward, drive the bus. And the bus runs over you. If you have a need, that's how it used to be at least. Right. So being around someone that has that opposite kind of set of strengths, when you spend a lot of time with that person, you start picking up some of those strengths, right? So I think that's actually probably most important of what I would want. At least one to two people in my round table have is that kind of opposite and by opposite, I'm saying very emotionally intelligent, very empathetic, very soft, not the right word, but. But just like very feeling like under yeah, like things affect them In a good way. So that's probably number one, but I'd say vision is probably number two I want I'm a dreamer. So I want a dreamer around me And I can definitely think of one of my friends that fits into that category for me and it's funny because I almost had Each person, almost fill, some people fill two or three buckets. It's almost like one person fills each bucket in a way.

Chris: 9:01

I think that's kind of how I think about it too, is like not one, one person's not going to fit all the criteria. It's more of you have, maybe there's four things you really value in one person kind of fits each one of those. So you're getting those perspectives when you need it. I think I actually. Somewhat similarly, I really value, this is just something I really value in life, is I, I want someone with a different perspective, because I know my perspective on the situation. There was a, a story in, from graduate school you know, someone asked me you know, Chris, why don't you speak that, speak up that much in, in class? And I was thinking about it, it's not that I'm shy, it's, I was like, to be honest with you, I already know what I'm thinking and I'm much more curious about what you guys are thinking. So why would I feel the need to blurt out what I'm thinking? I already know that. And so that's kind of how I think about this, of like, if I'm asking for advice on things, it's usually, or feedback, it's usually, I want someone to see something that I'm not, or think about something

Matt: 10:07

that I'm not. Let me ask you a question, because I, I don't talk sometimes, but it's for a very different reason. So I'm curious if you ever had this thought or if you genuinely don't talk because of only that thing, which is, I probably shouldn't say it's on podcast. So, but sometimes when I'm not talking, it's cause I'm not interested. So for you, yeah, for me. Right. So I'm just curious, is that ever a thing for you where you're quiet because,

Chris: 10:37

yeah, I mean, I think, I think everyone, I actually don't think that's that bad to say because. I think everyone's been in meetings where they're checked out and they're like, I'm not going to share anything cause I'm checked out, right? Like, I don't really care about what we're talking about. It's not that interesting. So I actually don't think that's abnormal. What I, what I will say is like, I, like I just said, if something is really interesting, I actually hate it when people interrupt because I'm like, I want, I don't want to interrupt their flow of thinking. Cause I am listening to it. That's good. So, so yes. I would say probably my number one is I don't want someone to tell me just give me what I'm already thinking. Yeah. Although that may be valuable in and of itself'cause maybe I am thinking along the right lines. So in and in order to find people that, you kinda have different life experiences. Mm-Hmm. I think that's, that's really important to me and I would say is definitely. Something that is on mine. It's funny, one of, one of my close friends, we always joke, we have nothing in common. And it's kind of funny how we're friends it's because I think we're both the one thing we share in common is we are Open minded, but as far as everything else it's not but it's kind of cool to hear each other's perspectives because they're always so different and it like that's a really cool relationship because we're constantly being challenged by each other in those ways and respect those those different differences So that's probably my number one

Matt: 12:12

Yeah, that's a good one. I kind of want to pin you down and say what is opposite or what is because I kind of described what opposite is for me. What is like opposite for you or

Chris: 12:23

like what is that? I don't know if I have to say it's opposite. I would say it's just different. And that could obviously be a lot of different things so I I also probably put myself in the the vision category where I get a little bit carried away like wanting to Not being super present all the time like my mind wandering to like different ideas and things which I think is one of my strengths, but then one of my weaknesses is Looking at what's right in front of me. So I I think just the different ways of thinking so again, it doesn't have to be opposite But I don't want a yes, man, right? So that that's what i'm not looking for is someone who so it's actually funny Maybe this is i'm probably looking for challengers in that situation And i'm not not that i'm not a challenger like I certainly can challenge people But that's probably not my most natural tendency And so I like it when people ask me difficult questions when I want, when I'm looking for that.

Matt: 13:30

That's definitely how I am. I, it took Shelby forever to get used to this, that I would, I take my idea and I actually don't think it's the best idea, but I present it okay, this is what I think. And she, the environment she grew up in that, when someone presented ideas, like that was true. But when I say something, I want you to tell me why that's stupid. And I'm going to keep refining it as you tell me what's stupid and being like either saying no I think that's actually right or being oh, yeah, it's a really good point I'm gonna take that part out or switch it for this part took a long time to get used to that kind of Learning for me or that kind of discussing Because it's kind of weird for someone to want you to tell them why they're wrong But I I think that is definitely how I am It reminded me of CS Lewis and Tolkien When they used to meet Lewis used to call it like psychological sparring or intellectual sparring. they would, they basically just argue with each other to refine their ideas. So yeah, you want, you want someone like that. That's not afraid to, to challenge you. But I also think going, if you were to go backwards a step from that, that starts with the person being. Open to being wrong, which is being kind of separated from their identity as their ideas, right? You, if your ideas and your identity are tied up, you don't want someone to tell you why that needs to change or that's wrong. Or so I think there's a certain level of maturity that you have to have to separate your ideas and your identity to ask someone to come into your ideas and be like, tell me why this is wrong. Right. So, yeah. I think those are all really important points, but I. You don't see a lot of people have that level of introspection to be like, okay, I want someone to come into my deeply held beliefs and tell and pick at them. And I have, I don't think he would care if I says, but that's kind of how you were saying you have a friend that was very different experiences. That's kind of how rich and I are. when we run, we have enough in common where we, We run together, but then as far as like our, a lot of the positions we hold, they're very different. So, and he's actually, if you were to ask him, I think he's made me more like him than I've made him. Like I eat a lot less meat. You know, I like cars a lot less than I used to. I care about city planning a lot more than I used to, you know, all these things that he, right. He cares about. But on our runs, we're just kind of like tossing these ideas back and forth and being like, Oh, I think that's dumb. Here's why I think that's a good idea. You know, just kind of that's what we would do on our runs for hours and hours. And so but that's kind of a unique type of relationship where you're. Inviting someone into that, but they also have the. The knowledge the courage the interest to engage you in that So

Chris: 16:19

yeah, so i'll go in to another one that I I would say is is one a for me is They have to be the type of person Where I feel a hundred percent safe with zero facade whatsoever I can completely To use the metaphor of like let your hair down where where I don't find myself needing to word things correctly or say things the right way or have my apartment cleaned up or you know I can just walk in and just be feel completely safe to say and do kind of like who I am right and That's I think that's rare. I think that's hard to there's people that maybe you feel a little bit of that with but like really everything and so that that that is a a staple for me like I have to have that experience with that person Probably multiple times where we are just maybe even just that like sitting You know, on the couch and late at night. And you're just like having that conversation, like those types of experiences where you really, truly get to know people at a deeper level. And not even in a, in the sense of like. Oh, we're talking about deep thing you're just experiencing life with them unfiltered. It's probably the way that's actually the way I just said

Matt: 17:41

I'll definitely put that in the Instagram post

Chris: 17:46

Experiencing life together unfiltered. That's that is how I say that. Yes.

Matt: 17:51

I There's this quote that we really like to use In our community, especially the guys like vulnerability breeds vulnerability. So it's something we would use as leaders a lot. If you're a leader of a group, how do you get people to open up? You lead from the front with vulnerability, which is again, going back to thing that people, things that people push back on. I have heard so many people say, Oh, certain leaders in certain positions should never say certain things. And I think that is complete garbage, it's crazy to me. I've heard it because I thought, more and more people are understanding, being vulnerable is important for opening up a culture of openness and realness and authenticity. And then someone says to me, yeah, but these people in this position shouldn't talk about these things. I'm like, what are you talking about? that's the most important person for, to be talking about those things, because that's the person that's. Defining the whole culture of the team, right? And so I, I think for, for the round table part of it, you displaying that authenticity and vulnerability creates a round table that is encapsulated by that principle. Right? So that's just a little side note too, about, about vulnerability. That is one of my things I care most about, but also my pet peeves when people are like, Oh, well, if you're in these positions, I'm like, no, that's the most important. Yeah,

Chris: 19:25

I mean, I don't, I don't disagree with that. I think there's, yes, I mean, it starts up top, right. And if someone isn't, yeah, if your culture is not showing that, then why would your employees

Matt: 19:41

or your team, not a hundred percent related to this, but, but also at the same time, it's usually you get to that place with people like you were saying, cause the things you're saying, but also because you, Carry that, you know, your personal brand carries that culture of authenticity and vulnerability,

Chris: 19:56

right? I think safe is the word for me. That's a good word. So, okay. Let's, let's go through the rest of yours and then I'll go through the rest of mine. I want to hear what

Matt: 20:05

you got. So I had, I saw on yours, you have wisdom. I think that's a, a good word. The thing I would say is a head. So I put. Kind of wisdom. Yes. I want everyone to have wisdom. I specifically put someone that's ahead of me a little bit. So the next stage at least ahead. Whether that's kids that are five years older or kids out of the house. Like someone that's ahead of me. I think is, is near the top of my list. Action oriented. So nothing makes me disengage from friendships or conversation or initiatives faster than just talking about all the time. I. I hate talk without action. So I want people at my round table that have wisdom that yes, they have that ability to evaluate things well, but I don't think that means that we don't take any action until things are completely evaluated. Meaning often the best way to evaluate things is to just pick a direction and start moving. And then you're like, oh, that's terrible. but I, I find. Especially at some of these meetings I'm in for random things, all you do is talk about and six months later, you haven't even started doing anything. And that is for me, the thing that will make me disinterested fast. So I want people around me that. Are willing to move in some direction at a reasonable pace. Okay.

Chris: 21:30

So Doesn't knowing you that doesn't

Matt: 21:33

surprise me loyal is one so one key aspect of my personality that I don't even know if I necessarily realize till probably five to seven years ago is If I view someone as in that inner five people, I will defend them very aggressively. So, and a good example of this is if Luca starts driving Shelby crazy, even if I'm not mad at Luca, I find myself getting mad at Luca. It's really interesting. I, and I've seen that in other areas as well, but if, if there's someone that's in that inner circle for me and there's something else going on where someone is doing something to them, I think it's unjust. I will or sometimes even just i'm very loyal to those people so I think that's that is a characteristic. I look for I Am all in on things I do So I want people that are in the inner circle to be all in on me as well because i'm gonna be 100 so nothing makes me want to take you out of my inner circle more quickly than you know putting a priority on you and then and then I hear Oh, you did this thing with 10 other people and I wasn't even invited. It's like, how am I not in the top 10 people that you invited to this thing? that, I think that would hurt most people, right. But you know what I'm saying? that for me though, is, is one of those things where when I'm thinking, can't

Chris: 23:03

be all in on that person, if they're not reciprocating,

Matt: 23:06

right. So that's another one. Obviously passionate vision, empathy. I already talked about vulnerability. We talked about one other one I put in here. This is. Probably just cause I'm been thinking about a lot, but someone that helps helps engender generosity. So this is specifically a money one. I think I've just been thinking about money a lot lately, Someone that's in there that's going to encourage you to be generous with your money and give you a wise financial advice. Because I think there's a lot of people that give terrible financial advice. So and specifically for us that looks like, how do we give as much, because so much of the financial advice is about me, me, me, me, me. How do you find, and I think we actually have one, but how do you find financial planners that are, you know, interested in generosity? I just read a book called Leverage that was all about that. How do you find? Friends that are going to encourage you to make financial decisions in light of generosity, all those things. And then not to just give X amount, but to actually be generous above that. So that, that was one I just threw in there. That's probably just cause I've been thinking about it. And then last thing, this is not so much at the inner circle. It's probably the next circle out, but this is probably for me, the thing that gets me most excited is I actually put the word behind. So I want one or two people that are actually a season or a couple of years behind me. To also be kind of coming along in some of these conversations or some of these friendships or some of these decisions to see what it looks like, to, to show them what that looks like so that if they've never seen it, then they get to learn and grow in that way. So that's probably my last

Chris: 24:45

one. So, yeah, I actually have that one, but for a different reason, I actually want their perspective. Yeah, no, I, I want their advice because they're seeing it from a different lens. That I am no longer seeing it from. So for me it's both ahead and behind and probably current, right? to have all three is obviously ideal. And I think that's probably a little bit counterintuitive. I think most people, when they think of advice, like, oh, get older, more experienced and yeah, I'm not, obviously that's important, but I really value. I mean, honestly, some of the most important feedback I get is from, you know, younger kids that I work with in my job. I really value that advice. I really, you know, there are some younger people that are a little bit younger than me that I consider good friends and I'm glad I have that. Because they can see it with a little bit more you know, I don't know what the word is, but just that different, that different lens. So, and yes, and also it's cool because that two way street, if they can ask you for advice and that's cool to have too. Right. So I said wisdom as well. I would define wisdom for me as someone that listens well. What drives me nuts more than anything is I say, hey. Can I talk to you about something and I might bring it up and they just jump in and give advice and I didn't even ask the question, I hate that thoughtfulness, right, like taking time to think about it, maybe not even having the answer right away, but just thinking about it. And then lastly and this, this is probably something I value because of my background with counseling and things like that, it's like good question askers, maybe they don't have the answer, but they can ask the right question and that takes wisdom to be able to do because I think most people in general will try to give you the answer and give you the advice and the people that I really value are the ones that are like, I don't know, but here's a question to think about. And that usually is a sign of wisdom that I value in people. So, so that's a big one for me. Those, those are probably mine. I, I, pretty short list, but definitely things I care about in people. I, I had one other one of like, at some point, and this is pretty obvious. Like at some point, probably going to have to have shared some life experience together. some stage of life. Whether that was school, whether that's a job, whether that's a community group or a church, you know, whatever that is. And I don't really know how you become deeply close with someone who you haven't shared like anything

Matt: 27:16

with. Yeah. I think that's, I guess that's good to actually say, generally these people are going to be people that have passed through the circles, right? They're in the outer circle of people, you know, and then you get closer and they probably get in that top 15 and then you spend more time with them or have. Experiences or conversations or shared season of light, whatever it is that brings them into that. And, and a lot of times it's like you have 15 people that could be in that, but just because of where you live, timing job, right. Kids, whatever it is, they move into that inner five. And sometimes it's just for a year, five years, 10 years. It's in and out. it's, it's flux. It's not like it's fixed forever. I think that's the other thing. sometimes people become friends in high school and they never, they think those are their closest friends forever. I mean, I wish that was the case, but. That's just not that's if that is where you are I would be a little bit worried like you should be finding new people that are in the

Chris: 28:17

air I mean, I think you could probably have one person from that stage of life that you've kept up with that For whatever reason like you said or one or two or whatever but like so it's not that you can't

Matt: 28:28

have that No, I mean I have at least one or two, right? So

Chris: 28:32

and that was actually what I was gonna ask you and you answered it. It's for me mine's fluid Yeah, right. it's it's shifting. Throughout I

Matt: 28:39

would say I define it though with time. Like, yes, it's fluid in the sense that it can change, but it's not fluid in the sense that for a set period of time, I'm prioritizing, you know, these people, I know who those people are. It's not shifting without me recognizing it or being aware of it. But

Chris: 28:59

it's, but it's not, Alright, this person's in my inner circle, they're 100 percent in my inner circle for life, or for the next 10 years. It's usually,

Matt: 29:07

6 months to a year. Usually yearly, I'd say every 6 months, I'm evaluating it, but it usually shifts every year. Because there are things that just change.

Chris: 29:16

Yeah, I think it naturally shifts, right? It could naturally shift. I think probably to what your point is saying, be more intentional about that, which, which maybe I could do a better job of as I'm thinking about it. But like, there's just different things that happen, you know I know for, you know, people move, people switch job,

Matt: 29:36

people I'll just give you examples for, for us right now, because we're thinking about this for the next, so we just had an orchid, right. And so we took this semester off from doing. Medical student Bible study. We did that last semester. So we were prioritizing certain people. We took the semester off. So who I'm prioritizing has shifted a little bit, but then we're going to make a decision during the summer of what are we going to do for the next 12 months? After that, are we going to go back to that? Are we going to do something different and try to do it with different people? Are we going to do something? Our neighbor, all that's going to shift who's in that inner circle for that year, right? Cause that's what you're spending time with, right? Exactly. And that's who I'm doing those things with. We're having overlapping. This is kind of a separate conversation, but for me, I'm actually going to add this. So missional, and this can be a very broad word. You can define it however you want, but doing an intentional task with a purpose together is how I define it. that is a huge part of mine actually. Because. I think, and this isn't always true. And I heard someone else say this and I really like this, but so what I'm about to say is just for me, but someone basically said the principles or concepts are few, but the methods are many, meaning, I think. You don't necessarily have to have missionals. One of the things that puts people in your inner circle or your round table. But I think what I've realized is life is busy for everyone. And if you're trying to have five people in this inner circle and there's no overlap, it's really hard to stay close to five people with no overlap. So what creates overlap is doing something shared together. That was kind of what

Chris: 31:18

I was just talking about. at some point there has to be. So, I think

Matt: 31:23

that for us is moving higher and higher up the priority list of who's in that inner circle and that's just a basic function of time more than anything else. I can't be going to a group on Tuesday night and also leading a Bible study on Thursday night and then also having students over to our house on Wednesday night. And then having two kids, it's like, you know, there has to be some ways that those things are combined. And so I think that's what, what we're kind of working through right now. What, what does it look like to kind of bring those things together? And that will affect who goes in and out of our inner circle probably for the next year or two. Yeah. That's good. That's a practical just practical thing. We're

Chris: 32:06

thinking about. Yeah, and I think to at least maybe wrap up this this conversation is like to to kind of where it started is, you know, most people you don't need to, to care about what they think, right? And, and that's why it's like, who should, who should you care about and why? And that, and I think hopefully, you know, these are obviously just our opinions on, on these things and for our lives, but for you at home, maybe thinking like, you know, what is it and why? And then also like one of the things I'm going to take from this conversation is, you know, what, how intentional am I being about those people? Cause it's obviously very important. And at what season of life, at what point does that transition if needed and, and things like that. So yeah, that's, that's good stuff.

Matt: 32:54

It's, it's very freeing too. Right. You just touched on this, but if you know the five people whose opinion you care about. And the other six, seven billion people, if they're like. You know, blowing you up in your Instagram comments. you don't have to, it doesn't matter, right? You know, it's in, and that's why having five people you can really trust matters because if it's something that needs to be addressed, then they'll tell you. Yeah. And if it's not, then you can just let it roll over you and you don't have to care. yeah, exactly. That's the real value of it is you don't even have, it just eliminates all the noise.

Chris: 33:29

It frees you up to do what we said. It's like, don't worry, get rid of the FOPO of other people's opinions. And

Matt: 33:39

sweet. Well, thanks for this discussion. Anything else? No,

Chris: 33:44

it's it's good. And we'll we'll see you guys next

Matt: 33:46

time. All right. Appreciate you guys. Thanks for listening. Have a good week.