Chris: 0:07

All right. What's up everyone? Welcome to our, we're, we're back First off, this is

Matt: 0:16

hopefully the start of a, an actual rhythm.

Chris: 0:18

Yeah. Summer. Summer takes its toll with travel and kids and, well, for half of us, at least

Matt: 0:26

everything.

Chris: 0:27

I did give you a shout out in our last, in my last, uh, article. I dunno if you saw that in the I did see that in the timeline.

Matt: 0:32

Yeah, I did see that. So are you making sure I'm reading it?

Chris: 0:36

No, I was, I was just. Thought, uh, I'd give our podcast some, some props since I left it out of my, as

Matt: 0:44

my podcast, I was just been globe traveling without actually traveling, traveling the podcast sphere, getting your articles out there, getting your name on the web. You know, if people search your name now, lots of sub stacks, podcast website.

Chris: 1:02

Yeah, I put it on, I put our podcast on the website as well on my business website.

Matt: 1:07

So. Can't say anything too, uh, controversial. Now you can't,

Chris: 1:13

there's, there's no filter and it's my website. I can say whatever I want. Um, Today, I wanted to do an episode specifically on the Olympics. Cause one for what this, one of the things, I mean, this podcast is about many things, but I think both of our hearts are with performance and specifically sport being a huge interest of ours. And obviously the Olympics being just a, an amazing, just avalanche of moments of, um, incredible performances, failures. Uniqueness of the sports and kind of seeing how different people train and compete and really kind rules,

Matt: 1:56

really kind of way to put some of the sports and the things you have to watch uniqueness,

Chris: 2:03

um, B, B boy and B girl, uh, battling it out. I was, I was trying to convince people to start calling me B boy. Then catch on

Matt: 2:14

I'm gonna try that little like, uh l shaped Sideline breakdancing move that the australian person did.

Chris: 2:20

Yeah, I actually didn't see that but i've just heard A lot about it. I've seen the video. They already

Matt: 2:25

announced that cut from 2028, so

Chris: 2:30

Which is tough

Matt: 2:30

if you just got into that sport thinking you'd be in the olympics. Yeah, and they were they're like I'm not sure we've ever seen one person single handedly take down an entire Olympics.

Chris: 2:42

Yeah, that was rough. We're gonna, we're gonna just not mention breakdancing in this, the rest of this podcast because it was,

Matt: 2:48

yeah, I think that's as much, uh, breakdancing coverage as we're going to have from the Olympics.

Chris: 2:53

Yeah. So obviously in my role, I was watching as intently as possible for certain moments that I like to share with some of my athletes and have gotten an opportunity to do in sessions with people. Um, and I wanted to share some of those with, with y'all, the things that stood out to me and some of them will be things that you're definitely probably caught onto and some of them maybe won't be. But I actually want to start like for you just kind of overall thoughts on What you saw anything that stood out? Um, just kind of give it to you to kick it off

Matt: 3:27

men's 1500 final Best race of the entire olympics men's 100 final probably my second favorite moment Obviously, I watched swimming track and field gymnastics The most track and field have the most background and I kind of know all of them follow the yearly circuit. So You I was most interested in those races for sure. Except especially the distance races. Um, but if you haven't watched the men's 1500 final, it is just a wild speaking of like psychology and performance. It's just a wild integration of all these different factors that have actually played out over the last two years, last 24, 18, 24 months, because. The guy who won the last olympic gold Jakob Ingebrigtsen who i've mentioned you've mentioned but I had

Chris: 4:20

no now I have a face to it Yeah, and

Matt: 4:23

all his we always joke in the running community has like the temporary tattoo. Look, I don't know if you notice any tattoos They look like the temporary tattoos So he won gold in tokyo And then 2022 and 2023 there were world championships because of covid And he lost both of the 1500 finals with someone out kicking him the last 50 meters, both British guys, actually Josh Kerr, who, if you watch the race, you would recognize, and then Jake Whiteman, who was not in this race. Um, and I think that combined with a couple of races this year, really messed with his psyche. Because he went straight to the front to basically try to run world record pace, right? Because in his head my what he's thinking at this point is I don't think I can win this race in the last 150 meters and so I just have to see if I can break that's

Chris: 5:15

interesting. I didn't know that background So that was a you think of direct reaction to the fact that he lost in the final sprint of the other ones It's

Matt: 5:23

the last two. Yeah, I I I think that's the only reason I would explain it. He's usually supremely confident. And if you watch his other races and the 5, 000, he won golden and he's better at those distances, 5, 000, 10, 000, and will be probably for years because you don't have to be able to run as fast the last lap, right? Because it's a longer race. So in the 5, 000, he just sits at the back of the whole race until the last couple of laps, and then he slowly makes his way forward. Then the 1500 is so short and the guys are so fast. That last lap. Cole hawker for the us ran 13 13 13 for his last 300 meters So he ran 13 seconds per 100 meters for the last 300 meters. So 39 seconds. That's uh, You should go try to run a 13 second 100 meter dash And that's at the end.

Chris: 6:13

Well, if you extrapolate that it's 52 second 400 which women Sprinters run like like 49 right 50. So that's like a probably someone who's close to finaling in the woman, right?

Matt: 6:25

and that's after absolutely League Going up that is after this. I'm saying that's really impressive after the first three laps running world record pace Not sure how you program that into your workouts, but that for me of all the races was the most Psychologically interesting because his strategy was solely based on past experience. I think

Chris: 6:48

yeah, that's really good. That's really a context I don't think I would have appreciated that. I did watch the race, but, and I was like, wow, this guy is clear. I thought he was going for the world record, but that was more of a, he

Matt: 7:00

was just trying to run the kick out of him because in his, the diamond league is the pro circuit for the top pros. And in those you get Pacers or they will set up pace lights or Pacers to try to hit certain splits or try to break the world record or hit certain times. And he always wins those races with Pacers. They got so fast that usually you run pretty even splits. So for each lap, you're running about the same time, but it's really fast, but these championships style races are totally different where the pace goes fast and slow, and then it's kicking and blah, blah, blah. And there's lots of jostling. So it seems like it's gotten in his head at this point. I actually was texting with rich and another one of my buddies and. I'm very intrigued to see if he only goes to the 5, 000, 10, 000 going forward in future years, because I just don't know if he has the kick to be the best in the world in the 1500 anymore. Those guys are just so fast in the last lap. So that that's one thing I'll be watching, but he, uh, he's a fascinating character, everything about him is interesting. He's confident from a, from a sports psychology perspective, so many layers and, uh, interesting parts to how he. Look at his confidence. Is he overconfident his approach? There's been so much trash talk the last year between Josh Kerr and neither of them won That was the best part of the whole race,

Chris: 8:20

right? So was someone made a comment to me that was pretty I thought was really kind of funny And I hadn't really thought about it this way But they were like it seems like all the track and field people are just Arrogant, like they're all seemingly you'd give the persona of overconfidence when you think of Inga Britson, obviously, Noah Lyles, we'll get into in a second, but, but some of the other guys as well, I think, and I was kind of almost wondering, is that something that almost feels like a requirement for that sport, you know, to be really good, that you have to believe in yourself almost to a fault, um, and kind of walk that line,

Matt: 9:04

but you also have the guy who came in third is probably the most, um, Chill person in the world. He went to Notre Dame. It was very mild mannered yard and a goose. So I don't think it's an absolute, but it's actually funny. You bring that up though, because some people will actually criticize him because he's too passive in races. And that's why he sometimes misses the final move for the win. So I do think based on my experience playing high level soccer, when we used to go to this ODP region camps, and you'd be around the guys that were in the national team pools, this was, I was like 16, 17. There wasn't a single person on that field. I was in the national team pool. That was super laid back. Didn't believe in themselves. Didn't think that they could do whatever they wanted to on that field. I think, especially in the 1500 specifically for the men, a hundred meter, 200 meter, I think it kind of comes with the territory to be elite because you have to, you have to believe that you can, or are the best.

Chris: 10:08

Yeah, I, it was just when they brought that up. Yeah. I was like, I wonder, cause you guys have heard my argument on confidence. I don't think it's particularly that important or at least as important as most people make it out to be, but it almost seems like in. Specific to that sport of track and specifically maybe even the shorter races, there did seem to be like a skewed amount of overconfident people. And with the statements in the, just the way they were carrying themselves. That I, when that, you know, my friend had made that comment, I was like, maybe there is something to that just of like, if I'm trying to be the fastest man in the world, maybe I do have to be a little bit arrogant. Yeah.

Matt: 10:49

I think in the, uh, not so much in the sprints, cause in the sprints, you're just going all out and whatever happens happens. But once you get over 400 meters, there is a little bit of, you have to have the confidence because when someone decides to run a certain pace, you're either going to make the conscious decision to go with them or not. And that's usually the point where you're either saying I'm going for the goal or I'm going for second, third, fourth. And if you listen to Cole Hawker's interview after the 1500, the guy who won, he basically says, I decided in that moment that I was going with the move because if I didn't go, I knew they weren't going to give me an inch to come back. And so he's essentially saying what you're saying, which is you have to, or what I'm saying, which is you have to go with those moves and you have to do that. You have to have the confidence that you're not just going to explode or the confidence that in yourself, that if you do explode, it's fine. At least you went for it. So not having that identity protection sort of mindset, which you sometimes, I feel like you sometimes see in these races where people will play for safe. Yeah. Yeah.

Chris: 11:57

Yeah, because it's a risk, like you could burn yourself out and crash and burn. And, uh, cool. I, I do want to spend, I guess what we're talking about track, but Noah Lyles and just initial thoughts on him obviously being one of the bigger stories of.

Matt: 12:13

Yeah. I'm assuming you see, you saw the 200. Yeah, I saw. I was, uh, that 100 finish was wild. I was looking at the photo finish and I still, I still couldn't tell how they were deciding where their torso started. So that was, I was probably one of the craziest photo finishes I've ever seen, especially in a big high profile race like that. And then there's another, I

Chris: 12:39

saw the, it was one, it was less than that. It was like three thousands of a second camera, which race it was. What was crazy is it like to the naked eye, even when you watch the replay, you knew he won to the naked eye. It still looks like the Jamaican guy won. Yeah. I think because he was behind the entire time until that final moment Like that was like the first time he actually passed him. It just looked like he never did. Um, I I will say You know, obviously the coat the 200 and the covet thing was a big story And

Matt: 13:11

okay. Hold on. I have to say something about this. I've been thinking about this because last World championships, I think inga britson said he got coveted and that's part of the reason he lost at this point I think In 2024, and this happened in the tour de France this year to a couple of people. I got COVID if you are one of the top people and you're not taking precautions to just basically be either having the people around you test or wearing an N 95, when you're around a bunch of people, it just shouldn't be an excuse at this point, you know, it's a risk. If you're willing to take that risk, then you are, but you can't use it as an excuse. If you decide to take that risk or you take the precautions to prevent it, And you don't get it and then you minimize that risk. Right. So it's, it's come up a lot this summer and different sporting events where people get COVID and then they either pull out or lose. And then I'm just kind of over it.

Chris: 14:07

Yeah. Well, I was actually defending him a little bit. He was, I don't know what to think of. I'm not going to judge him because I know he has the asthma background. He had COVID that was legit. And then. You know, he was clearly struggling for air.

Matt: 14:24

It probably clearly made a difference in that race. What I'm saying, even if

Chris: 14:27

it's a couple of tens of a second, which is everything,

Matt: 14:29

what I'm saying is just the, how you get there. It's like, we know this is a risk. This has come up so much over the past. sporting events. It's like, if you're that prone to that, you should be taking it. That's an

Chris: 14:46

interesting take. I haven't heard that perspective on it. Um, and I mean, that's, that makes sense if you're at a thing that happens once every four years, maybe I know the world championship and stuff, but like, You know, the Olympics being the biggest stage, maybe you should be more disciplined for a couple of days. I don't know. I don't know. It's hard to blame someone for getting sick, but I do get your perspective.

Matt: 15:07

That's my hot take of that. Yeah.

Chris: 15:10

Um, I will say, I think it was legit just because he pulled out a four by 100 to me. That really, Oh, it was legit for sure. I mean, he definitely, yeah, well, some people at first were caught, you know, like, Oh, is it an excuse? Cause he lost and I'm like, I mean, to bronze with COVID, he clearly was struggling and then like pull out of a race where he felt like he was going to get another gold medal. If he participated like that to me, it was like,

Matt: 15:30

yeah, it was weird. Cause usually where he's best is in that a hundred to 175 meters of the race. He just has another gear and, but semis and finals, he was like, he reached top speed and he didn't move at all. And everyone just kind of stayed even with him or past him. So it definitely seemed like something was, you know,

Chris: 15:51

Yeah, well, one of the, one of the favorite things that he did, and then I'm kind of just going to generalize the theme here that stood out to me was the almost just like what I love is when you see thousands of different athletes compete, you realize there's just not one way to do things. And. Noah Lyles is a great example of he's kind of found what works for him from a mentality standpoint. A lot of people don't like it. I'm sure his competitors, some, you know, I'm sure he's very polarizing amongst his competitors and fans. Um, he certainly sets himself up to be ridiculed if he doesn't succeed. But it does seem like that mentality of talking himself up, you know, being kind of a showman, uh, entertainer, you know, making it a little bit bigger than just the, the sprint seems to put him in a, in a fairly good mindset for what works for him. Um, and that's a huge proponent of what I talk about is like, you've, you know, you've got to just find what works for you. And obviously that's not how everyone should approach it, but I do respect the fact that Even though a lot of people are probably giving him a lot of crap for it. That's how he shows up and he was kind of authentic because if you watch the trials That was exactly how he was too and i'm sure he's been like that for years

Matt: 17:05

Well, that's been one of his big changes. He used to not be probably two or three years ago. He wasn't like that. And he actually had a coach or sports psychologist. I can't remember who told him to start doing whatever he wanted to, to get energy, because like you said, a lot of people assume, Oh, if you expend too much energy right before the race, you get overhyped. And then you're too stimulated like that arousal curve. We talked about, you get too aroused and then you don't perform as well. Cause you're not as focused. And that's what everyone had told him. In the past, but his coach or whoever told him to do this basically said, no, you do whatever you need to do to get your energy level where it needs to be. And so he started doing that a couple of years ago. So that was that has been a change for him. It seems like it's been working He's been much more successful since he started.

Chris: 17:57

Yeah, and then the other extreme example that is The my favorite meme from the whole thing is the turkish shooter guy, um, I can't remember his name, but the guy who Used no gear no glasses literally just walked up with the pistol and and shot gets a silver medal um But to me, that's a, just a amazing example of like, it would be so easy to try and talk about it, like any coach who started working and be like, what are you doing? But he found what works for him and he's clearly elite at it if he's getting if he's meddling. Yeah um And it just shows like obviously it's unorthodox But I think in sports we try to figure out a lot of these formulas and techniques and teach people a certain way to do Things that like there's a right and then there's a wrong way to do things and the olympics Just show How many different paths to success there are right and I love some of these extreme examples To kind of just Bring that to light again. You wouldn't teach that but why not, you know, if someone discovers that

Matt: 19:06

well One I saw in the high jump was one of the girls would get her journal out After each jump and write down thoughts about what happened and then the other girl would Sleep the sleeping bag, right? Uh huh. Yeah, I loved the sleep and those isn't there's a picture of both of them These two people are in the same event And I thought that was a good one too Very different approaches in between jumps.

Chris: 19:31

Yeah, great. That's a great example again It's it's just I mean I had it's funny. You brought that up about no allows because I had a athlete recently tell me um, it was similar where she felt like She performed her best kind of higher on the curve and what she had been told by past coaches and Um, you know, uh, mental coaches or whatever, it was kind of something similar of like, you need to be calm. Like you need to bring this down, you know, use breathing, whatever it is. And You know, we kind of talked about how I don't think that's necessary like you what's most important is what you've you know What you feel like works best for you um And I think it was nice kind of having the no allows example to kind of pull from of like look this works for him um So yeah, I think that's those that was just kind of one overall point a couple examples.

Matt: 20:29

That's a good one to pull that I'm impressed you just talked to that. I just did something very distracting chris just It's stuck with it, composed, rolled his eyes, but no one will see that. You had a bunch of them. Let's, let's run through kind of some of your, we talked a lot, we did a lot of track, which kind of covers mine. Yeah. Main domain.

Chris: 20:50

Yeah, i'll kind of run through a couple of these Uh, one of the cool shots that I saw was reagan smith the swimmer and kaylee mckeon from australia Uh before one of their races, I want to say it was a 200 fly or something like that they Showed them in the whatever that room is like right before they come out. Yeah And Reagan Smith's like showing Kayla McKeon, like, look, my hands are shaking and like, they just show her, they're just trying to like advertise the race. Like, oh, it's coming up, but it's like, she's like, look, my hands are shaking. And then. Australian swimmer, McKeon was also like doing the same thing. And so they were both, they were the two favorites for the medals. And I just thought it was like, what a cool example of you think these people don't feel it? Like they can't even keep their body from shaking before they go out there. And it's, That goes back to the nerves conversation of like this is why it's so important to interpret nerves as Helpful and necessary and not try to fight them because there is no way you're preventing them like these people I promise you have worked with sports psychologists. I promise you they've done all the work possible and they are literally shaking Yeah moments before they go out and swim And so I just, I thought that was really funny because they, they weren't intending to capture that, but, uh, and they were like joking about it. That was also, they weren't freaked out by it. They were both kind of laughing at it. And I thought that was a really cool reaction to it.

Matt: 22:13

Yeah. That's a, that's a really good one. That's so true though. These that's from our anxiety episode, but just the, and you may mention this on the podcast you were just on, on the healthy Charleston shout out, um, but the signals are neutral. They're just telling you what's happening. So the signal of them shaking is just, Hey, this is a really cool, high stakes experience with lots of people watching us. It means a lot, lots of train, you know, it's just all those things wrapped up. Well, that causes your body to be excited and excitement at its highest level can cause tremors. Well, I guarantee you a lot of my patients would not be interpreting that as a. A positive thing or a neutral thing. They would be telling me they need a Xanax to help calm them down. Yeah, but, but really, right. Every time they have these certain experiences that caused them to feel heart racing, sweaty, overstimulated, what is most of the general population do? They reach for something that actually removes that, or they try to hide from it. But these people are actually excited about it because it means there's Worth looking forward to, or if it's too much, they know how to redirect in a healthy way.

Chris: 23:38

Yeah. Yeah. Uh, including they weren't too concerned by it, which is, is a cool thing. Like they kind of know the threshold of like, you know, it wasn't like it was going up and down 10 feet, you know, it was, it was just small, small shakes, but, uh, I liked that the interpretation of it, the perception would be another way to put that of your experience and just how valuable that is. I love I mean, I love those moments. I think finals of events are just so fun. I love it more than anything I think that's probably what it intrigued me about my field in the first place is like You just it's do it like you either do it or you don't and you either Can manage yourself or not like those are probably the most You can't you just can't recreate that and that's what I love about is like You you have to have done The preparatory work on your mind to have any chance of being able to manage it or just have been there multiple You know a lot of times Which is where you know experience? What do you

Matt: 24:39

think about this? Because I think there's some truth in the saying that some people just love that feeling And some people really are uncomfortable with that feeling naturally that feeling of, Oh, this is a big opportunity, or this is a big chance to compete or do or die. Like you were just saying to me, it seems naturally some people are more, um, bent to enjoy that. And some people are more bent to be scared by that. Not saying both can't work to, to be better at it. But do you see some of that where you feel like some championship people actually. Have grown up in a way Either they had so much discomfort at a young age that they grew fond of it or they grew able to deal with it in a healthy way versus some other people aren't as Used to it and so it's a harder adjustment for them.

Chris: 25:31

Yeah, that's a good question My hypothesis on this would be yeah, I think there's definitely i'll say like personality traits that align more with like I'll use an example, like take the final shot, right? That like, whatever the, the highest anticipated possible, you know, where the highest risk and highest reward kind of behavior, um, but that's also going to be rare, like if you have a basketball team of 10 people, there might be one player on your team that's like, Hey, I want this, but yeah, I think there's definitely people who are more naturally. Tend toward that but I also agree in the sense of like I think it can also be learned to enjoyed Um, and then I think there's people that yeah, they're really really uncomfortable and they just try to manage it um, I think that's what I probably see the most of is like Because I do think it's a little bit abnormal to to highly desire moments where we put ourselves in super vulnerable and exposed positions Um abnormal and I would say in a good way in a positive way You And so a lot of the work, at least from my experience that I've ended up doing with people is like most people who are uncomfortable with that. And it's like, okay, well, how do we manage that and put you in a position where, um, you know, you can, you can start to see it as. At least neutral, but hopefully in a positive and kind of shift that interpretation of those signals and things that, cause I would say that the normal brain function would see those things as threatening. And so you do have to like rewire it a little bit. Um, not to give a potential, uh, foreshadowing of what my book may be called, but, um, so yeah, that would, that would be my answer to that.

Matt: 27:28

Yeah. I, I think I agree with that. I always felt like growing up because of my personality type, I always desired to be that person that it was always my baseline mindset. I wanted, if we were going to lose, I want it to be because I had the chance to do the thing or not do the thing. Like penalty kicks are a good example, but I didn't, I didn't want anyone else controlling that. I would rather be in control of that situation. And if the outcome went negatively, I would want it to be because of my action, not because I'm just standing there and someone else is controlling. Right. Even though that comes with more. Responsibility or stakes if you do miss, but that was always my default was desiring that. Um, so I was just curious what you thought about that.

Chris: 28:23

Yeah. There's a, there's a couple of really good example. I mean, Vince Carter has a great quote of like, um, you know, I'm not, I'm not afraid to take the last shot cause I'm not afraid to miss it. You know, I think people that just, they view failure as less devastating, you know, like they are much more willing to take those things or people that just have a more optimistic approach to life. Like they're, you know, it's the old adage, like glass half full or glass half empty. I really do think some people just only see like. Wow. If I take, I mean the Steph Curry, like if I take the shot and make it, I'm going to be the hero and like, that's all they think about. They don't even think about the possibility of missing. Um, whereas some people are the exact opposite. Like if I miss this, I'm going to be, you know, everyone's going to look at me. Versus okay. Yeah. I mean, I could make it, but like it, that just like far outweighs. And I do think that, yes, we're all a little bit naturally built differently in that way.

Matt: 29:22

Yeah, I like that default mindset is is it towards the positive outcome towards the negative outcome or kind of mixed and Probably most of the people I desire that have the overly pause. They almost probably are extremely skewed towards Unrealistic expectations of like oh, yeah, I'm gonna make most of these or we're gonna win most of these games if I

Chris: 29:41

yes opportunity I mean, I kind of remember I kind of remember as a kid. I Always wanted the last shot and and I kind of remember Not I mean, I could be wrong on this. I mean, this is distant memory, but like. I remember never really even thinking about like what happens if I miss like it just didn't even concern me Right. It was like I want a chance to be the hero.

Matt: 30:02

Yeah

Chris: 30:03

Like that was and that was worth it enough to to take it

Matt: 30:06

And also just going back to the penalty kicks thing for soccer I don't think I ever walked up to the penalty kick and was like You have about a 50 50 chance of making verse missing this and what's that? It was always like I'm putting it here if I hit it right it's going in move on with with our lives kind of thing. So that is a A really good insight that that's probably how a lot of those people's brains are wired. They're they're The negative aspect of the situation is probably not even crossing their mind

Chris: 30:35

well you also brought up a good point of the selection bias of like When you're looking at the top one percent of athletes in every sport The selection biases most of them are probably going to think that way naturally and so we probably think like oh 50 of people think like that 50 don't where in reality it's like No, that's super. That's a super rare quality, which is why so many people Struggle with that,

Matt: 30:59

right?

Chris: 30:59

And I always like to say we marvel at elite athletes not just physically but mentally Because it's rare because it's abnormal and I would put that trait in the abnormal category

Matt: 31:13

i'm trying to think of a good example of this in this olympics, but My other favorite thing about sports psychology is just how Bad some people are and how good they still are at their craft in terms of some of the olympic athletes are just mentally Pretty horrendous, but they're just that Is there someone I don't know? I can't I mean there are we've talked about before in different circumstances I can't think of one performance in this olympics off the top of my head but Those people that, I mean, tennis is usually the easiest place to find them. Yeah.

Chris: 31:50

I'll say this. I do make this argument with people against, I mean, it's like anti marketing a little bit, but I, but I do believe it's true. When, when people say things like, Oh, the mental game is the most important. I'm like, that's just the most ridiculous statement you could possibly make. Like, it's just not Giannis Antetokounmpo does not need to have a great mental game. He's going to be a great NBA player. Yeah. Like. You know, and, and then you could take a,

Matt: 32:14

or like the 16 year old that ran the 400 on the relay team in the prelims. It's like, whether or not he's great mentally, the fact that he can run 44 seconds as a 16 year old, you know, there's just, or the, um, some of those swimmers, 16, 17 years old, and they're coming in silver bronze medal position. I think a couple of golds. We were watching I was in Asheville with a couple guys and we were watching one of the swimming races One of the 17 year olds. What was the Canadian girl summer Macintosh? Mm hmm, and you're just like doesn't matter the fact that physically she's mature enough and Capable of competing with pro fully grown women is just its own Ridiculous like feet. Yeah And own like just its own category of performance that, yeah, she's going to maximize those other things over time, the mental aspects, and that's probably going to help her. But the reality is her development, her stature, her build sure. And the training, but there's just aspects of how she's made as a human that put her in this elite echelon. That there's nothing, there's nothing anyone else can do to be like that in some ways.

Chris: 33:32

Yeah. I mean, let's, let's just debunk this myth real quick. There's four kind of elements to sport. There's the physical, technical, tactical, and mental, right? Those are kind of the four large categories. And if I were to order on physicals by far, number one, um, then you look at. Probably technical. And again, not that there's right and wrong, but just, you don't want anything limiting you. And then it goes to like tactical, depending on the sport, I would say. And then I would say it goes to mental. I'm not saying the mental side is not valuable. What, what ends up happening and why people misconstrue it as the most important is because when you get to a certain level, there's physically, there's not much difference. Technically, there's not much difference. Tactically, there's not much difference. And so the only separating factor is mental. And so, yes, it does become extremely valuable at the highest levels. And that's the misconception, right? It's like, Oh, it's the most important in order to decide this race Yes, but that's just because those people are so they've maxed out all those other areas The one part that's probably not maxed out is the mental side and so whoever does the best approaches the best Focus is a little bit longer or better will win,

Matt: 34:40

right? No, that's a really good caveat. So you're saying if I don't practice my sport at all I shouldn't spend 80 of my time on my mental game. Correct.

Chris: 34:48

I I actually I think it's probably I mean, it's it's hard. It's hard to also separate it. It's like You know, the men, the mental part does influence the other parts. I'm not going to, obviously like it's involved in practice. It's involved in a lot of things, but you know, so you can't just completely like remove it, but I don't think like meditating is going to be. Which again, I teach and I think it's valuable, but it's not going to like put you in the NBA. Like you could have the best mental game, but if you're an average athlete with average skills. You're not going to make it right, you know, it's like you'd much rather be the physical freak with the mind who, you know, a below average mind, but you're still going to be in the NBA,

Matt: 35:34

like, yeah, I think what makes, I love that caveat or, or just kind of rule you gave because who are usually the hall of fame, pro football players are the people who had, you know, All the top three things you mentioned but then they also were the people who figured out how to be the absolute Best at studying film mental game preparation all those aspects that you work on Um, so anyway, that was way off topic. So let's yeah, let's circle the way We'll

Chris: 36:02

get a couple couple more in um Just the flyer here. I thought Tori Husk, the swimmer for the U S who swam really well, won a couple of golds. Um, she would yawn intentionally before the first time I saw, I was like, I've actually told a couple of people to yawn. Um, if they feel too anxious or whatever, uh, Lee Trevino was the first person that I ever heard doing that in the 1970s in golf. Uh, he, he talked about how he would do that sometimes to calm himself down, but, uh, she would walk out. It was, it was just funny cause it looks ridiculous. Like she's walking out to the crowd of whatever, 20, 000 people cheering for her and she's yawning.

Matt: 36:40

What's kind of the thought there? What? Is it a like what are they trying to release by yawning?

Chris: 36:47

Uh, so i've actually used that Technique a couple times in my career. It's designed to bring the system down a little bit so it's You know kind of on the curve if you're above the curve you want to bring it down and that's kind of a way To do it because it Signals, I guess the theory behind it would be it signals kind of sleep signals, you know, which, which would in turn bring you down. It also kind of helps you maybe slow down your breathing a little bit, just cause you're yawning and can't. So I think those are kind of a couple, the, the maybe science behind that.

Matt: 37:19

Yeah. Cause I think traditionally some of the thought of the yawning reflex is breathing is taking a deeper breath. It triggers a deeper breathing reflex. Yeah. So. Yeah, that would make sense.

Chris: 37:34

Um, so that one was cool. I also shout out to Steven that erotic, what was funny American

Matt: 37:39

hero. Okay. Before you say this, did you see when he was doing the pommel horse individual event a couple of days later, they did a video, like a part animated part him. Interview video. It was amazing. If you haven't watched it, it's hilarious.

Chris: 37:56

I actually didn't, I did not see that. I will say one of my friends is. Friends with him and he was he was telling us this before

Matt: 38:02

friends like he knew him He went to with him or like he was in

Chris: 38:06

multiple classes in college with him in the same program like graduated

Matt: 38:11

But the problem is could he see him?

Chris: 38:15

Yeah,

Matt: 38:16

I mean, I know I mean could Steven see your friend without his glasses on I was like, what are you talking about? It's amazing His vision is so bad. He's basically doing the routine.

Chris: 38:30

Why did he yeah, why did he compete without him? Why I didn't understand that at all. Like where contacts what is he doing?

Matt: 38:38

I don't know that situation was wild

Chris: 38:42

But before yeah, he was like I'm friends with this is guy went to school like before he became like anything and we were like Oh, that's cool. He's on the gymnastics team Then he became like the biggest deal of the of the two men's gym. I think I

Matt: 38:53

heard he went from two to three Um,

Chris: 39:02

but one of the things that I loved, I saw a video of him and it was really cool. Well, actually we're going to post a couple of pictures and videos, um, connected to this post or to this podcast. Um, so I'll try to get this one up, but it was him at the top of it was like him going through the routine in his mind. And he's like, And acting it out while he was waiting for like hours to do his bomb wars and the team competition. And then the, the bottom of the video is time synced with what he's visualizing. So it's really, really cool. Um, how he was able to play that out in his mind. And I think that's just a really good example of the power of visualization and how to utilize it really, really well. Um, so yeah, those, those,

Matt: 39:49

yeah, that, that situation was. An encapsulation of a lot of mental work, just the, the pressure sitting there that long. That was one thing

Chris: 40:00

ready. That was the most impressed I was by anyone at these games that to the points you're making.

Matt: 40:09

Yeah, that was just, I can't imagine because it's different than other sports where you're waiting all day, but you're waiting in your hotel room or you're eating. He's waiting in view of other people. Which and you're in your uniform, it's just different because you're sort of engaged with what's going on from a team perspective But you're also trying to stay ready, but you really don't get rid of your nervousness till you start playing a lot of times Right.

Chris: 40:35

Yes. You're just sitting with it for I mean for hours like that was he was there a long time And then to do what he did and then I think also just the pressure of being a specialist is I talk about how I think like Pinch hitting in baseball is one of the hardest things to do. I think like a closer yeah, three point specialist or someone that like comes in for free throws or um, you know, just whatever it is When a coach brings on a player just for a pk at the game, you know things like that I'm, like, oh, that's that's a lot because everything there's no flow to it, right? And that's, what's so challenging. I think it it's one thing to be really good at a skill, but you're like in the game versus, like you said, just sitting there, sitting there, sitting there. I think all you have is time to think about it,

Matt: 41:22

especially at the end. It's one thing if you do it first and you're done, but to do it last is a whole different animal. So that was, yeah, that was an awesome moment. That was a really fun, the Olympics just produced those really fun moments. Where you just get to, especially the unexpected ones that are really, really cool and unique. And I think the combination of the national aspect or nation aspect with the aspect of the underdog or the storyline, make the Olympics super fun. I'll give my random, this has nothing to do with the performance or psychology, but I can't remember which country this guy was from, but in Javelin. And you want a metal, maybe even gold. I didn't watch it, but I was reading the story about him and he got crowdfunded by his neighborhood to go to the Olympics. He had no coach, no training facility. I think they crowdfunded his javelin too, and he, and his travel expenses. And he, I think he won a medal. I'm pretty sure. So if you're looking for a good story to read about that's probably one to check out too.

Chris: 42:35

Yeah, there's there's some amazing ones. Um, Another one the women's gymnastics. I thought was really cool. I'll post about it It just had a picture of the podium and it's like Simone Biles obviously in first went through twisties mental health problems The girl in second Rebecca Andrade a three torn ACLs the girl in third Sunni Lee had a kidney disease Probably didn't even think she was gonna compete. They documented that pretty heavily But but I thought that was like wow that that is crazy to think about in a sport where you think You have to be really young, was kind of the, the narrative to, to hold up physically, mentally. It's like you have a 27-year-old, a 25-year-old, and then SUNY Lee in her second Olympics all gone through significant issues to go 1, 2, 3.

Matt: 43:23

Yeah, it was, I think the Bios thing was pretty amazing.'cause especially at her age with what happened last time, even if you compete well at World Championships, US Championships, the issue started at the Olympics. So you really got to be prepared for that setting to re trigger some of those, those issues that is really hard to simulate in other events because you've never had an issue in other events. So I thought that was one of my more impressive things for her to be able to do that in such a dangerous sport with such dangerous moves that she tries to do, because I even feel some of that in some of the sports I do when you have other things that you're. Caring about now It's harder to take risks, especially if you've had Issues in the past with them so I could see her now that she's married doing other stuff older It's probably hard to push all that out of your mind and stay really focused Especially when you've had those issues before

Chris: 44:26

yeah, and that's why I love the picture that we're gonna attach of her Essentially meditating in the chair like right before she's about to do a routine to me. That's just like What, uh, I love those examples and pictures of someone who's clearly trained their ability to calm their mind in the moments when they need it, stay present, stay focused. Um, really, really cool to see that because you're right. I don't think there's any other way to overcome that other than really having worked on it. Yeah. And it showed clearly. Um, I want to get to the last, my favorite, this is actually my favorite, so I'll save my favorite for last. Let's do it. Um, two world number ones, Novak Djokovic, who's made, I don't know, we'll say 170 million on court. 24 major sidles, already the greatest of all time. Wins the Olympic gold, brought to tears, emotional moment. Something, and he wins majors all the time and never, almost never cries. Scotty Scheffler, number one player in the world, almost 100 million on course earnings, shows no emotion whatsoever, wins the gold medal. Breaks down in tears. And, I think that's just, only the Olympics can do that. And, and that's what I love about them, is they're so, well, for, for some of the athletes, they are extrinsically motivated, right? For some of the smaller sports. But I actually, Like it was YouTube TV was like, which sports do you want to record? I didn't even record the golf and tennis. Cause I watched those anyway. So I was like, I'm going to spend my time watching the other sports. I don't watch as much. Cause I was like, I don't care about these events as much, but I saw the endings to those and I was like, that is really the best possible ending for the best player to care that much about something that they get. Probably lost money going like with the travel. I mean, you get essentially not even paid for those guys to win a gold medal and they, it's probably one of the most significant wins in their careers, but I'm sure they would say something like that. Um, and, and that just brings out the heart of sports to me that I, that I just love. One of the things that's really been tough for me, and I think a lot of other fans recently with. The live golf and some of the, you know, soccer players being divided and, you know, and just like the influx of money and greed, I think into obviously all of society, but really infiltrating the sports world recently. It's so nice to, to see this where it's like, here's a competition that there's almost no actual intrinsic reward other than like pride and playing for your country and, and to see what it means to those guys to do that. So I don't know if you had any thoughts on that, but that was, that was one of my favorite.

Matt: 47:25

Oh yeah, that's well said. That's true. It's, there's really a very few events like that anymore. So that's a, a really good observation, really good kind of summary of, of a lot of those people in so many random events. And, and for these guys, like you're saying, even things that traditionally aren't thought of as the biggest, biggest deal in their sports. And for, for it to mean that much to them is really cool to see. And I think. That's what makes the Olympics so captivating for us, even in, in other random sports, because you see that level of care and emotion and intrinsic drive. Like the pistol shooting, you know, it's like those people are only there because they want to be there and it means something to them. Um, so yeah, I think it's a really special thing, a really cool opportunity for us to get to. Also be united as people watching and just get to enjoy that.

Chris: 48:28

Very few events now that truly everyone watches nationally or globally. I think with so many options of entertainment now and things going on, it's really fun when you have these big events that kind of everyone can talk about, like I've had people at work, like, Oh, did you see this and that? And that's, that's kind of nice and refreshing. Cause I don't think we get a ton of that anymore.

Matt: 48:50

No, I think that's really true. That's a, I think a good way to put a bow on it. Um, I don't really have a whole lot else to add, but yeah, I think that was a good summary of just the overall ethos of the Olympics. So we, uh, we'll throw some teasers out there for future episodes. I've had a lot of comments that people want to hear more about Chris's, uh, 36 hours in the woods, so we may, we may explore that a little bit more in future episodes and then. Some of the sub stack articles. We have a little bit, a little bit more to unpack in the future as well. Um, so we'll hopefully dive into some of those topics coming up here over the next couple of weeks, and we are planning to be coming to you much more frequently, hopefully over the next few months. So I don't know. I don't know who's

Chris: 49:42

blaming who we're, no, I don't think we're blaming anyone. I think

Matt: 49:44

it was just agreed upon. Um, cool. Well, that's it. Thanks for joining. Thanks for, uh, all those awesome examples. And we will see you guys next time. So hope you enjoyed and we will see you next time.