Behind the Lens: Volcanoes, Ice Caps & Wild First Ascents with Toby Roney

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Award-winning adventure photographer and filmmaker Toby Roney joins Chris Watson to talk about a life spent documenting expeditions in the world's most extreme environments — from minus-27°C storms on Iceland's Vatnajökull ice cap to a world-first ascent in Kyrgyzstan. We dig into the "say yes first, work out the details later" philosophy that's shaped his career, the reality of solo-shooting for 22 hours on the Matterhorn and the mental-health honesty that underpins it all

Chapters

• 0:00 Saying yes to the Matterhorn
• 1:26  Intro & welcome
• 4:29 Young Toby: growing up & early curiosity
• 5:31 Cycling Britain in his underwear
• 8:52  The piano, the widow & why positivity spreads
• 16:46 First expeditions: the Isle of Skye
• 19:09  The camper van & early entrepreneurship
• 22:55  Jack of all trades: the philosophy of failing
• 25:14  Building the skill set & the four kinds of luck
• 32:04  Storytelling & the filmmaking process
• 35:13  The Matterhorn: fear, risk & a fatal fall
• 45:16  Kyrgyzstan: a world-first ascent & the power of community
• 52:38  Anxiety, journaling & mental health
• 63:09  Pay it forward, call to adventure & quick-fire questions

Key Sources & Links

• Instagram — @tobyroney
• Website — tobyroney.com
• Peak 4122 Media — peak4122.com
• Seven Days Out — Garmin docuseries (Nepal), on YouTube
• Millimetres To Mountains

Key Takeaways

1. Say yes first, figure it out later. Toby's whole career traces back to saying yes before his rational brain could talk him out of it — from cycling Britain in his underwear to climbing the Matterhorn. Small yeses (a coffee, a course) open doors you can't predict.
2. Failure is the real teacher. He's failed at countless ventures — an underwear company, color grading, businesses — but treating each one as a lesson (not a verdict) is what built his adaptability.
3. Don't stick to one lane. Like the old Greek philosophers who worked many jobs before calling themselves philosophers, having "fingers in many pies" keeps different parts of your brain alive and makes you more interesting and capable.
4. Engineer your own luck. Toby breaks luck into four types — blind luck, luck from "kicking up dust" (visibly doing the work), luck from preparation, and luck from reputation — and deliberately actions all four.
5. Put your ego aside to stay safe. On the Matterhorn and in Nepal, admitting "I need a guide / I'm not well, I need help" wasn't weakness — it mitigated real risk and earned deeper trust from collaborators.
6. Fear never disappears — you get better at operating through it. Preparation, breaking challenges into sections, and clarity over panic are how he manages exposure and risk.
7. Community beats conquering. The Kyrgyzstan first ascent mattered less for the summit than for the people — belonging, purpose and authenticity (echoing Sebastian Junger's Tribe) are what make it meaningful.
8. Do the inner work openly. Journaling, counseling and talking about mental health — especially as men — shouldn't be taboo. Understanding your own brain translates directly to performing in the outdoors.
9. Stand on the shoulders of giants. You don't need to reinvent the wheel — experts are often happy to share over a coffee. Never tell yourself no.

Transcript

[00:00:00] Toby Roney: The idea of what happens when you say yes to things. And I kind of adopted that when I, after I had this huge anxiety spiral, and I said yes to random things, so I said yes to, uh, when my friend asked me if I'd go to Istanbul with him for 48 hours in between school. So we, I let skipped my last lesson on Friday forward a plane with, uh, my friend Clement, and flew over to Istanbul 48 hours.

[00:00:22] Toby Roney: And we spent 48 hours eating pizza on rooftops, drinking beer and meeting the locals and photographing people in the spice markets all to return back on, uh, Monday in time for the first lesson. And it's Ed, it's Ed Jackson, that the same guy who I filmed, um, the previous year in 20 crossing, um, Europe's largest ice cap.

[00:00:41] Toby Roney: And he says, I've got a really cool idea. You're gonna love it. There's no budget, so you're not gonna get paid, but I think we should go climb the Matterhorn. And before my rational brain catches up, I blurted out the words yes. S says, perfect, hangs up the phone. And I'm sat there thinking, what the hell have I just signed up to [00:01:00] do?

[00:01:00] Toby Roney: And once I said yes, like I knew, I was like, okay. There was some part of me that wanted to do this. And even though I was filled to the brim with fear, because it honestly, it terrified me. The idea of the full exposure for the entire route and also the length that would be out on the mountain for. So for most people, it takes between eight and 10 hours to climb the Matterhorn.

[00:01:17] Toby Roney: They start at 4:00 AM but for us, we were moving for 22 hours because it, um, has a spinal cord injury and it just moves a little bit slower than, than other people. 

[00:01:26] Announcer: Welcome to the Adventure Diaries Podcast, where we share tales of adventure, connection, and exploration from the smallest of creators to the larger than life adventurers.

[00:01:37] Announcer: We hope their stories inspire you to go create your own extraordinary adventures. And now, your host, Chris Watson. Chris Watson.

[00:01:48] Chris Watson: Welcome to another episode of The Adventure Diaries. Today we're joined by Toby Ronney,, an adventure photographer and filmmaker who works in some of the most remote and extreme [00:02:00] environments on earth. At age 18, Toby cycled the length of Britain with nothing but a pair of underpants, a set of rules, and the kindness of strangers.

[00:02:10] Chris Watson: And that trip captured a belief that's guided him ever since. Say yes first and work out the details later. And in today's episode, we explore how curiosity and a willingness to fail about one of the most adaptable careers in adventure media. We unpack the string of adventures, jobs, courses, and hard won lessons that seen Toby working.

[00:02:33] Chris Watson: Everything from volcanoes, glaciers a thousand plus meter peaks. And we get into how that yesterday led to a 22 hour ascent of the Matterhorn alongside adaptive athlete, ed Jackson. And what it takes to keep working. Well, gripped by fear. We also touch on mental health philosophy and the quiet honesty that underpins all of this.

[00:02:58] Chris Watson: So please settle in [00:03:00] and enjoy this fantastic conversation with Toby Ronney. 

[00:03:05] Toby Roney: Toby Ronney, welcome 

[00:03:06] Chris Watson: to the Adventure Diaries. How are you? 

[00:03:08] Toby Roney: Thank you very much for having me. I'm good. I'm good. How are you? 

[00:03:11] Chris Watson: I'm excellent. I'm excellent. See, before we start, I think you're in California right now in the sunshine and I am in the wet and cold in Scotland, so I am a little bit jealous, but, uh, 

[00:03:23] Toby Roney: yeah, it's, it's not, not, not too bad.

[00:03:24] Toby Roney: But it must be weird for you for, for doing recording quite late at night for you and for me. I'm, uh, wide awake. 

[00:03:30] Chris Watson: Yeah. Fantastic. So, so thanks Toby. Uh, yeah, I'm excited to, to have you on today. There's a, there's a few things that we're working, want to get into, uh, you know, kinda framed this as more of a, a.

[00:03:43] Chris Watson: To get, to understand your journey as a, a kinda hybrid practitioner if I want to, not that I'm one for labels necessarily, but you are a, you know, an adventurer who works in extreme environments, a lot of filmmaking, uh, and particularly human-centered storytelling. And that's kinda what I want to get into.

[00:03:59] Chris Watson: Maybe touch [00:04:00] a little bit on your vaal experience, uh, the film, um, with Aaron Edwards and, uh, Nile McCannon, ed Jackson. And speaking of Ed, the Khan, sorry, expedition, uh, as well over in Krg Kyrgyzstan. So that's kind of what we wanted to take it to, but before we, we get into that, I just want to bring it back and let, let's get a bit of a frame for those that are listening and watching.

[00:04:25] Chris Watson: So, uh, what was it like for young Toby? Where did you grow up and what did you want to be when you became an adult? 

[00:04:33] Toby Roney: Yeah, so I mean, it's funny choice of words with adult. I wouldn't even say I'm an adult now. I'd still say I'm a, I'm a kid on my gap year and I'm kind of having like a gap life. Um, but for me, when people ask that kind of question, I normally kind of have a cop out answer and I just say I've always done it.

[00:04:49] Toby Roney: But looking back, I actually, I've been quite lucky. I've always known what I wanted to do. So I remember from the age of 12, I used to have this Saturday job where, um, technically a [00:05:00] legal Saturday job getting paid cash in hand because I was, uh, too young to actually have a proper job. Um, and I'd go and, uh, clean a golf course and early Saturday morning at 7:00 AM with my dad and I'd be driving this golf buggy around.

[00:05:10] Toby Roney: And I remember one time, um, after doing that job, um, I took my dad's camera and I went onto the golf course and I was photographing worms, which was really entertained by just cameras and taking photos. Um, but an another kind of story which kind of came back in my late teens, it was when I was 18. I was 18 and I was inspired by a book that I read that summer, um, about two guys who cycled the length of, um, the UK Lands End Groats.

[00:05:37] Toby Roney: I'm sure you've heard of that classic route a thousand miles from the most Southern point, land based point in the uk. Lands end up to the most Northern Point. John I Groats. I decided to follow that same adventure, told my, asked my best friend if he can come along with me, but we decided to do it with a bit of a twist.

[00:05:55] Toby Roney: And we started off in nothing but our underwear and we followed a simple [00:06:00] set of rules. And, um, this rules were they weren't allowed to hitchhike. We weren't allowed to spend money and we weren't even allowed to start with anything apart from our underwear, uh, not even bikes. And, um, the, the idea was that we'd live off the kindness of strangers as we kind of cycle through.

[00:06:14] Toby Roney: And, uh, what we did start with though was a Facebook page. So we had a Facebook page and day one we started with about eight followers, a few friends and family. Uh, by the end of the trip we ended up with over a thousand followers. We've been on four radio programs, slept in gardens, and even flagged a few five star hotels, all whilst raising a couple of thousand pounds for charity.

[00:06:34] Toby Roney: And as you can imagine, accommodation wasn't very easy. Um, on this trip when you're knocking on someone's door and asking. Can we, can we stay in your house? Uh, standing there in our underwear. Um, but that's where Facebook came in. So we use social media for a kind of better, um, springboard to be able to get us accommodation.

[00:06:51] Toby Roney: There was a point in Carlisle where we were stuck. Um, so we put a message out on Facebook being, um, asking, does anyone have anywhere we could stay? And we got a [00:07:00] message a few minutes later saying, um, go to this pin, um, site. Um, someone will be there to be able to help you. So we cycled over, knocked on the door and waited a couple of minutes.

[00:07:08] Toby Roney: And, um, then the door slowly opened and opened an inch and, uh, round the corner came a gray hair, finely lined face that looked up at us and asked what we wanted. And, um, we were explaining why we were there, et cetera. And she interrupted us halfway and said, ah, yes, I remember there's a shed for you to sleep in around the corner.

[00:07:26] Toby Roney: And then just closed the door on us. So we're like, okay, cool. So we went round, put our bikes up against the shed, and went to sleep for the night. In this, um, in this shed. And, uh, woke up the next morning to a shy knocking on the door, and it was a host standing there in her dressing gown. And she's invited us in for some breakfast before we headed off on our journey.

[00:07:43] Toby Roney: Um, and during the whole breakfast, she didn't say a single word. We were just kind of chatting about what we were doing. The people we'd met on the way while she kinda just shyly nodded along. And, um, by the end of breakfast, I noticed behind our host was this piano just covered in dust. So I asked if I could play her a song before we left on [00:08:00] our, on our, oh, did you hear those dogs?

[00:08:02] Toby Roney: Sorry. Um, I'll wait a second, just 'cause hopefully they'd be quiet in a second. 

[00:08:09] Chris Watson: I wonder if it was Set my dog up. He's sitting at my feet. Oh, he can't, I wouldn't hear it. I get headphones on. 

[00:08:14] Toby Roney: Oh, you go, lemme just, okay. Okay. Um, where was I? I'll restart that a little bit. So, uh, where was I? Breakfast? So she invited us on in for breakfast, uh, before we headed off on our journey, uh, for, for that day.

[00:08:29] Toby Roney: And, uh, during breakfast, uh, we were just, uh, talking at her. She didn't really say a single word. Um, and we were talking to her about, um, the different people we'd met on the way and the journey and why we were doing this adventure as you kind of just shyly nodded along with a little smile and behind our host, um, I noticed there was a piano covered in us.

[00:08:46] Toby Roney: So at the end of our breakfast, I asked if I could play a song for her. So I sat down, um, as she welcomed to me, and I sat down at this piano and played a song. And, um, I turned around at the end of this and I saw a host sat there in her armchair with [00:09:00] tears just pouring down her face. And I shot up quickly and went, went to go and ask her if she was okay.

[00:09:05] Toby Roney: And she grabbed my hand and she looked up at me and she said, thank you. My husband, uh, died last year and he used to play piano for hours and hours on end while I'd just sit here and listen. And sadly since then, I've barely left the house. My neighbors do my shopping for me and I don't see my friends and family.

[00:09:23] Toby Roney: Um, and she said it's nice to know that people are out there doing good things like yourself. Um, what this story just went to go and teach me was that magic happens when you say yes to weird and wacky ideas, and the best of all it spreads. So positivity spreads positivity. And I feel like this was such a transformative, weird trip for me, the beginning, well, my late teens kind of leaving college and starting my so-called professional career because it gave me that mindset that I knew I needed to start asking life for a lot.

[00:09:54] Toby Roney: Um, so I would just be asking a lot of different things, not only on this trip, but also [00:10:00] afterwards, and kind of adopted that into my photography journey. 

[00:10:04] Chris Watson: Wow, that's, I mean, there's, there's so many things to, to unpack. Ha. Had you ever put yourself into any kind of vul position where you were vulnerable before?

[00:10:15] Chris Watson: I mean, 'cause like, do doing something like that in your underwear first off, uh, you know, I, I mean that, that must have been, you know, good, good for the confidence that you cracked on and, and done it. But had you, was that the boldest thing you had ever done at that point? 

[00:10:29] Toby Roney: Um, yeah. I, I would say it was probably the boldest thing and the weirdest thing.

[00:10:35] Toby Roney: And it was just something which I knew it stretched my comfort zone and I knew I had to be able to do, I had to do something scary. Um, so I just, yeah. So me and my friend decided to do that.

[00:10:50] Chris Watson: Can I ask a quick favor? Please. If you're enjoying the Adventure Diaries Podcast, could I ask that you take the time to click that subscribe or follow button and [00:11:00] if you're feeling extra. A written review or a star rating on your platform or choice 

[00:11:06] Toby Roney: would be greatly appreciated. Now let's get back to the episode.

[00:11:10] Toby Roney: Thank you. 

[00:11:11] Chris Watson: Yeah, that's, I actually reminds me of, it was a story that Al Humphreys had told me he'd done something similar as well, you know, like going and try to grab life with the balls a little bit and going and playing. I, I think it was a, was it a cello or something like that? And singing for his supper in somewhere in Spain.

[00:11:27] Chris Watson: And he couldn't speak the language or play the music. How's that play the musician? But he just went and 

[00:11:31] Toby Roney: done that. I think it was a, a violin, wasn't it? A violin. He was traveling violin and he, he hiked, I wanna say Spain. He was like treking through Spain trying to make money. And, um, I think people paid him more money to stop playing instead of playing.

[00:11:43] Toby Roney: Um, because he was, uh, obviously trying to learn and, and really kind of stretch that comfort zone of his, which huge respect. Like, I, I love that kind of thing. It's a really cool story. 

[00:11:52] Chris Watson: Yeah. But, but coming, coming back to that then, so what age were you when you'd done that? Thought you were quite, 

[00:11:56] Toby Roney: so I was 18, so just out of 18 college, [00:12:00] deciding whether or not to go to university.

[00:12:02] Toby Roney: Um, and yeah, just decided to do that, that weird adventure. And I think it was one of those things, which it was, I mentioned at the beginning of this podcast, and I'm definitely, I wouldn't class myself as an adult, but thinking kind of a societal view, this is when maybe boy turned to man. Like he, yeah, he did something weird and went out and kind of, yeah, I don't know, I wanna say conquered the world, but it's, it's not that at all.

[00:12:24] Toby Roney: It's more just kind of a, um, self-discovery expedition. I think they're really important to go and do. And I'm very lucky that I did, um, one of them quite early on. Um, and kind of like off the bat, out of education, 

[00:12:35] Chris Watson: had you traveled much, like generally before that across the UK or internationally or, or that or, 

[00:12:42] Toby Roney: oh, I've always been into travel in the outdoors, but I would say from about the age of 14.

[00:12:48] Toby Roney: I joined scouts, so I actually, well I was actually explorer scouts. I kind of got into the outdoors then, and I'm not really from a crazy outdoor orientated family. Like my mom loves going for walks, taking the dogs [00:13:00] for walks and doing a bit of birdwatching, but no big mountains, no big expeditions. But, so it was the scouts that taught me, um, a lot about the outdoors, but mainly a lot about how to kind of like mess around in the outdoors.

[00:13:13] Toby Roney: So we were like building giant fires way too big than they should have been. We were going on hikes, we were like, um, accidentally trespassing, past trespassing through lands, all that kind of thing, and kind of doing what teenage boys normally do, which is just mess around and have some fun. Um, but it did teach me how much I loved getting outside and getting like dirty and mud on my face and kind of like rolling around and, um, sleeping out under the stars with a bivy bag.

[00:13:38] Toby Roney: Um 

[00:13:39] Chris Watson: Oh, amazing. 

[00:13:39] Toby Roney: Yeah. 

[00:13:40] Chris Watson: Amazing. Well, so you going back to that landing to Joanna Gross Did, did you, did you start. To turn that into like a, like a, like a story or a, a kind of film or a, an art project or something like that. Did you, did, did you, that kinda bug capture you during that expedition as well? I'm thinking about like, you know, a young man [00:14:00] essentially on a big, bold adventure.

[00:14:01] Chris Watson: But you, you know, you had that bug picking a camera up quite, quite early on, but, and I'm just wondering, you know, was there any intention to try and document that and turn that into like, some sort of like, creative project or, or was it pure adventure? 

[00:14:16] Toby Roney: No, no. So I, I can't take full, um, credit for the actual idea unfortunately.

[00:14:23] Toby Roney: So I, I got this inspiration from a book that I read earlier that summer. Um, and it was a book called. I think it was called Free Country. I wanna double check that. I think it was called Free Country by an author called George mou. And he did exactly the same, but he came over, I wanna say with the original concept and then did it and did it in his underwear.

[00:14:39] Toby Roney: But he didn't do use social media, so that's one twist that he, he didn't use. Um, and he did the, the whole, the whole thing in 17 days and met some weird and wacky people and then wrote a book about it. And then I read that book and kind of asked him for permission to kind of follow in his footsteps. And, um, it was quite funny 'cause I remember asking him and he, it was quite a short email, he replied back quite blunt and just said, yeah, of [00:15:00] course.

[00:15:00] Toby Roney: Um, and I think what he thought was nothing of it, like loads of people last, no one's ever done it before. And then we. Did on social media. We put it out there. Like I said, we got a load of radio programs, got on different and various newspapers where met a load of interesting people, but we documented it all through social media.

[00:15:15] Toby Roney: And I think halfway through the trip he picked up on it and, um, was like, oh, wow, you guys are actually doing it. Like, well done. Congratulations. Um, so no, I, I feel like when we talked about it, me and my friend that we did this with Clement, um, we, we were looked at the idea of, okay, we wanna try and document it in a different way, but we can't write a book about it because that would just be, just be wrong, ethically wrong, just following the same journey and writing a book, which someone else has already done perfectly.

[00:15:43] Toby Roney: Um, so I think the most documentation we did through that was our Facebook page and it's still up now. You can actually have a look at it. It's, um, ginger and Frenchy head north, obviously Ginger, my friend Clement is, is French. So it's quite a unique name. So you wanna have a look at it. Please go and have a look.

[00:15:59] Chris Watson: Yes. 

[00:15:59] Toby Roney: And give it [00:16:00] a like and a follow. Yeah, you can, you can see us without beards and it's quite scary. 

[00:16:05] Chris Watson: Yeah. 

[00:16:06] Toby Roney: They, like, you can go through and document all the photos and videos that we, um, and the adventures we got up to on the way. 

[00:16:12] Chris Watson: Yeah, absolutely. We'll get, get that all linked and stuff. I wish I'd known about that beforehand.

[00:16:16] Chris Watson: I think I would've probably went down the, the rabbit hole and probably asked a little bit more. And 

[00:16:22] Toby Roney: feel free, let, let's, if you have any other questions, go for it. Because I've actually, you, you asked a question a lit, uh, earlier, which was about, um, I, I talked about scouts. Mm-hmm. And there's that kind of gap from photographing worms to, to, to the Ginger and French exhibition at age of 18 and kind of the filler in between.

[00:16:39] Toby Roney: And it's kind of a long winding conversation with that. But I did a few different trips. One of them, one of my first expeditions was on the Isle of Skye. So me and a friend decided to, we wanted to raise money for charity for a sensory room, which is, um, a room for autistic children, um, to kind of like calm their nervous system down, et cetera.

[00:16:58] Toby Roney: So we decided, okay, [00:17:00] we wanna raise money for this. Um, what do we do? So we're gonna go head up to the Isle of Skye. Um, 'cause it's a beautiful island on the west coast of Scotland and we've always wanted to go and we're gonna hike it. So we, we decided we're gonna hike it over two weeks. So we're gonna start from the most southern point.

[00:17:12] Toby Roney: We're gonna hike up the spine and we're gonna world camp all the way. And then we're gonna come back and turn around. It's gonna be amazing. We'll get the train back from Scotland down to London and it, we did do that. We survived and we went to plan and we did the expedition. We raised money for charity.

[00:17:25] Toby Roney: But the little adventures we got up to on the way, like the mistakes we made, for example, were cheaps skates. And I'm proud to say I'm still a bit of a cheapskate now, but one of the things we did was we don't wanna spend money on all this food. So we're gonna ask our local scout hub and our scout leader, he was called James and he was in the, back then it was called the territorial army.

[00:17:43] Toby Roney: So he had loads of, um, out, out of date army ration packs. And these are the army ration packs, which still had liquid in. So they're not dehydrated. They're super, super heavy. And we're like, that'd be perfect. Sweet. Let's go. They're like two years out of date. So we take them off to the outta scale and we decide we're [00:18:00] gonna survive off of those.

[00:18:01] Toby Roney: And it was like six or seven days in our stomachs were just like hurting so much. Our throats were burning, uh, because of, I think it was just the amount of crap that was in those ration packs. And like, not only was our digestive system, um, suffering, but it was also our backs because we were carrying all this stuff.

[00:18:20] Toby Roney: Like we were carrying backpacks, which are way too heavy. I remember wandering into a, a pub halfway up the Isle of Skye and um, we just said, explained what we were doing and we just said, can we just. Buy some vegetables. Like we don't, we don't want a meal 'cause we can't afford it, but can you just give us a carrot and like a pepper and just a cucumber, something that we can kind of try and get our digestive system and our throats and stomachs back to like a normal rhythm.

[00:18:45] Toby Roney: Um, that, no, that was just another crazy little adventure that we went on, um, in, in my teens. 

[00:18:51] Chris Watson: Yeah. Uh, you, what was the Kickstarter campaign thing? Rolling back because you went a bit, did you not do a bit of kind of driving [00:19:00] around and then you went to France for a little bit as well? Mm-hmm. But you, you raised money to get your, uh, was it a camper van or a van conversion or something?

[00:19:06] Toby Roney: That's it. 

[00:19:07] Chris Watson: Yeah, 

[00:19:08] Toby Roney: so this was, um, the camera van I decided to call it. So it was just after that, um, land zone on a gross trip. I wanted a vehicle. So I started looking at vans and I was like, you know, I'm gonna just buy a camper van and I'm gonna, sorry, buy a van and turn it into a camp van and couldn't convert it myself.

[00:19:24] Toby Roney: So I put out this Kickstarter, um, and sent it to loads of people that I, I knew that wanted to support me in my photography journey. And what I did is I, they supported me with money to go towards this van and to build, and in exchange I'd offer them my time as a photographer on shoots, um, but also like my photography prints and, um, a load of different people.

[00:19:43] Toby Roney: Some strangers actually, um, from just around the world saw this and was like, that's quite cool. And sent me a message being like, there you go, have some, we're gonna support you. And, um, would love to get a print. So I think around the world, quite a, a handful of people have my really probably terrible prints from when I was [00:20:00] younger, um, from my little adventures around the uk.

[00:20:03] Toby Roney: But yeah, I bought this van. Converted it and then, um, lived in it for, it was only like a month or so, but while I drove around the coast of the UK and then a couple of years later drove it over to Europe and through the Alps, like through the northern Dolomites I Italy into, through Venia and background.

[00:20:18] Toby Roney: So we did that for a couple of months. 

[00:20:20] Chris Watson: Yeah, 

[00:20:21] Toby Roney: it was this early, I think, like, I wanna say entrepreneurship like style that I had that kind of adapted. Um, and I, I think I've always had that, 'cause I, 'cause I didn't go to university, so age 18 decided to do a load of different jobs and do some wacky adventures.

[00:20:40] Toby Roney: But I always started round company. So I've, I've sold, I've rented bell tents in the summer. Um, I used to have a company where I used to go house sitting. So I'd house sit for different people in my local, my local city. And I had a few people going off and doing that kind of thing for me. I, with that was dog walking as well.

[00:20:56] Toby Roney: I even tried to start an underwear company. So I got loads of swatches from [00:21:00] different companies, um, around the world. And it was like playing with this fabric. And I'm a photographer by trade. I dunno what the hell I'm doing when it comes to underwear, but I, I just had a slight interest in, in those different kind of sectors and I decided to follow it.

[00:21:14] Toby Roney: Um, so I've always been very good at learning, but the better thing than that is I've actually always been better at failing and learning from my mistakes. So I failed a ridiculous amount of time through different ventures and photography shoots, videography shoots, and different businesses. But what I have done is I've learned from it and I think it's such a cliche thing, but I think the reason why it's a cliche is because it's said over and over again.

[00:21:38] Toby Roney: 'cause so many people make the same mistake, um, and that they're scared of failing. Um. But now I failed a ridiculous amount of times, and it is enabled me to be able to, right now have fingers in so many different pies that I can, um, I'm interested in photography and videography, and that is my profession, but I've also got lots of different things, background things, um, that I've managed to [00:22:00] do and, um, do over the last couple of years because I've, I've done so many different things.

[00:22:05] Chris Watson: Yeah, I, I mean, a lot of people don't even try. So the fact that you're, I mean, you're bold enough to try and bold enough to admit it. I, and I think, I mean, I'm a big, you know, uh, believer in like, you know, failing as cliche as it sound like failing fast with a lot of things or trying stuff. I mean, I've had all sorts of.

[00:22:24] Chris Watson: Crap over the years mean I still, I still have a corporate j uh, job. This, this is my kind of side hustle, but I've tried everything under the sun as well. Like, and I won't get into all of that in a minute 'cause some of it's quite embarrassing. But, you know, if you don't, how, how do you know that you're gonna find your passion when you're doing stuff like that?

[00:22:40] Chris Watson: And you don't need to be That's, 

[00:22:42] Toby Roney: that's exactly 

[00:22:42] Chris Watson: it into one lane. There's nothing to say that, 'cause you're a filmmaker and a photographer, you can't have other interests or passions or test things. Yeah. And see what works. It's like, I mean, who makes the rules for this stuff? 

[00:22:54] Toby Roney: It's the idea of the old Greek philosophers.

[00:22:56] Toby Roney: I think before they could count themselves as, as a philosopher, they did [00:23:00] so many different jobs. Like they came outta education and then they went to go off to war, and then they came back and they were a carpenter, and then they were a mechanic, and they kept on switching up these different jobs. And then they got to a certain age where they could look back through their own meandering experiences and see the common traits in those different roles of life and be like, ah, now I think I'm a philosopher.

[00:23:19] Toby Roney: And they could start talking about life. Um, and I, I love that. I think it's, it's those people who aren't just doing one thing that have so many different things going on. I think it's brilliant. And like, it's, it's interesting. It keeps different parts of your brain alive. 

[00:23:32] Chris Watson: Oh, of course. Yeah, 

[00:23:32] Toby Roney: yeah, yeah. I'm getting excited.

[00:23:34] Toby Roney: Just talk about it. 

[00:23:34] Chris Watson: Yeah. And that, I mean, that kind of, one of the things I wanted to touch on, about your, eh. So as a, as a package, as an outsider looking in the amount of skills that you've got and qualifications and various things from like, you know, whether it's climbing or flying drones or power boating or paragliding, you know, you've got a lot of like experience and a lot of fantastic skills and qualifications and accreditations and all that good stuff that goes, that allows you to operate [00:24:00] in the, these environments.

[00:24:01] Chris Watson: But it just shows the adaptability. But more so the, the, the interest and the curiosity in these things to go and to go and do them. And that's why I love speaking to, to people that, that are very much like that. And that was a bit of a ramble, Toby, but, but bringing that back, I mean, did you consciously build this kinda kit bag of skills to help you become this, you know, hybrid adventurer filmmaker?

[00:24:26] Chris Watson: 'cause you, you've worked in some, you know, crazy environments, volcanoes, helicopters, yeah. And glaciers and, and all the, all the rest of it. 

[00:24:34] Toby Roney: Whole house of different environments. That's exactly it. I think, I feel like if you ask that question to anyone, if they answered yes, I knew exactly what I was doing a hundred percent.

[00:24:44] Toby Roney: Like I was following this recipe and I knew that I was gonna get to the, this end result, they were de they're definitely lying. No way. Hey, I have no idea what I'm still doing. Like, I've just done some very cool stuff and I've, I've been very fortunate and I think it's because I didn't go to university and I recognized that.

[00:24:59] Toby Roney: Um, [00:25:00] so I spend, so I, I came across this, um, kind of idea from a friend of a friend, um, who does different courses. So he does three to four courses a year, and I decided to adapt that, um, adopt that maybe three or four years ago. Um, and since then I've learned how to scuba dive. I know how to paraglide. I know how to operate a rib.

[00:25:18] Toby Roney: Um, I can motorbike ride and I can, um, climb up ropes. So jumaring up ropes. I've done a professional qualification on that, which actually gives me the certificate to go and clean, you know, when you see people on the Gherkin in London, um, on those ropes, clean windows called an IRATA. Um, so I did one of those qualifications and it actually enables me to, if I want to go and clean windows.

[00:25:38] Toby Roney: Um, so it, maybe it's a secondary backup, uh, backup plan, um, if photography fails. But it's, I came across this thing a little while ago and it was in the uk. 49% of adults have received no further training or education since leaving full-time education, so full-time school, et cetera. Um, and for that combination [00:26:00] of trying to do courses and also following my passions and doing things that I've wanted, um, has ended up like leading me to do weird and wacky adventures.

[00:26:08] Toby Roney: Um, yeah, because it, it's the idea of luck, like I think. I think of luck in four different ways. Uh, you've got blind luck. So for example, being born with all my limbs, uh, luck from motional, I like to call it kicking up dust. And it's the idea of your, you are showing, um, you're showing what you're doing, and then others bring opportunities to you because they see you as an expert in your field and you have luck from preparation.

[00:26:31] Toby Roney: So me being fit enough to be able to do these expeditions means like we will finish the expeditions with success and kind of go there with, um, achieving what we wanna achieve and then luck from reputation. So. The idea that someone knows me, they recommend me to others, to others because they see me as a professional in my field.

[00:26:47] Toby Roney: And I, I think what I did a couple of years ago was just action all of these. So I've combined the curiosity for different courses and this idea of luck. Um, and I just did what I wanted to do. So I learned how to ride a motorbike, [00:27:00] for example. And because of that, my friend and I both, um, booked us, test them the, the same week we went MOTORBIKING together and within a month we'd bought, um, old Suzuki GT three 50 motorbikes from 1998.

[00:27:12] Toby Roney: So rusty, old pieces of crap, but we learned how to do them up through YouTube and books, et cetera, and just kind of did them up and decided, hell yeah, let's move over and ride this mo these motorbikes over across Europe to the border of Slovenia. Um, so we did that and then we rode off road trails, um, up in northern Italy, um, through the Dolomites called the TET European Trail, it's a whole network through Europe offroad, um.

[00:27:37] Toby Roney: Browser you can ride motorbikes on. And because we did that, we then got brands offering us, um, kit and money to go and photograph, uh, their, their kit in different environments. So I've, we managed to work with Quad Lock who make phone cases, um, and Scott Motor Sports, they have like a division. They do lots of different things like skiing, but they also have a Motorsport spec section and they sent us a [00:28:00] load of, uh, motorbike gear and it just meant that I followed my passion, got a qualification, therefore got a bike and then ended up shooting what, like I wanted to shoot.

[00:28:09] Toby Roney: It's, it's just pretty cool when you think of it like that. There is a bit of a recipe, but it, you can't look. Towards the future for the next steps. You kind of just have to follow your gut. Yeah, looking back is easy being like, oh yeah, I knew what I was doing. But no, I don't think anyone did. 

[00:28:24] Chris Watson: Uh, it's, it's wonderful to hear.

[00:28:25] Chris Watson: I, I mean, just following that curiosity and, and not realizing and not, sorry, and realizing that, you know, because as you got older, that it's like that education, again, as cliche as it sound, it doesn't need to stop. And if you're interested in things, you know, to pursue that. 'cause like you say, that whole, you know, like pay it forward, the reciprocity, all that stuff, that starts to kinda, you know, without getting too woo woo, things that just seem to start happening.

[00:28:49] Chris Watson: I mean, an example that I'm just back from two days in the Scottish Highlands doing an intro to winter mountaineering skills, which I had never done before. I've never really been a [00:29:00] climber. More a hiker and a paddler. And my wife's like, why on earth are you doing that? It was like, mine is 15. And it's like, well, 'cause I, because I want to do it.

[00:29:09] Chris Watson: And I'm talking to people about doing this stuff on the show all the time and it's just, and it's like, why not? It's, it's so much fun. And then all of a sudden, all of a sudden now get a completely different set of skills 'cause learn how to use ISACs and crampons and you know, that's it. You know, make ship reassesses and all this kinda stuff.

[00:29:26] Chris Watson: It was like, it was crazy, but it's, yeah, just, and, and now people start to see that and then people start. Inquiring and, and things like that. It's just, it's, that is wonderful. And it's, it's not, you're never too old to do this, to do this 

[00:29:39] Toby Roney: stuff. No, you're, you're, you're not like you, you're really not, you're never too old to do that kind of stuff.

[00:29:43] Toby Roney: But also, like, if you follow your passion and all that kind of stuff, like it does lighten light up different parts in your brain. Like you can really rewire it through like neuroplasticity to kind of see these different activities and kind of like learn different things. I think it's, well when you are a, what is it?

[00:29:59] Toby Roney: When you are [00:30:00] a a baby, you kind of see lots of different things and your brain's kind of firing off and getting excited mm-hmm. By lots of different things and all that. And it's like, if you have never been in White Mountain knowing before, never done a course, like you're in a new environment, like it's really exciting and interesting, you're gonna see a whole new different kind of world.

[00:30:14] Toby Roney: Yeah. Um. Yeah. It's like, I think it's great 

[00:30:17] Chris Watson: and, and the fact that's, I mean, for me it's, it was in the ke GOs. It's only two and a half hours drive for me. And, and it feels like you're in a, a different world. That is, it's, it's crazy. And it's through conversations like this, this is the whole purpose of the show.

[00:30:29] Chris Watson: It's to, to get people excited about the possibility of this. If you think at whole, I don't know if you're familiar with like the ega, Japanese kind philosophy. It's like, 

[00:30:39] Toby Roney: I think I've heard of it actually. 

[00:30:40] Chris Watson: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Follow something that you know, that you can, that you're passionate about, that you can earn from, you can give back to the world.

[00:30:46] Chris Watson: And it's this kind of whole kind of Japanese philosophy and it's, I think it's embracing that as you get older and if you can tick those kind of boxes, you get the perfect storm for things and Yeah. But are there any [00:31:00] adventures, activities or skills that you don't have that you would like to 

[00:31:04] Toby Roney: or that are on your list to do?

[00:31:07] Toby Roney: I was actually thinking about this the other day, um, and it's gonna sound really quite sad, but I really wanna learn how to whittle a spoon. I have, I have a bit of like a wishy-washy brain where I'm like, I can't really sit still. I love doing random bits and bobs. Um, and I feel like if I can learn how to whittle spoons, um, I just kind of go into that zen moment of kind of getting the word and really carving it.

[00:31:29] Toby Roney: And I, I'm talking about like, I know what the hell I'm doing. I've never done it before, but I think it'd be really nice to kind of focus in on a moment and it's like a, a form of meditation. Um, 

[00:31:38] Chris Watson: yeah, 

[00:31:38] Toby Roney: so that, that's on my list. That is on my list as well as like a whole other, a few exciting things like sailing, I wanna go sailing this year.

[00:31:44] Toby Roney: Um, learn more about that. I want to kind of delve more into, um, scuba diving. So there's a few additional courses that I'd like to do with scuba diving, um, and more off-road motor biking, four by four driving. Like there's loads of stuff, man. We just gonna, it's like a waterfall. It just keeps on coming and coming.

[00:31:59] Chris Watson: Yeah. Oh, [00:32:00] fantastic. So kinda switching lanes a again, Toby, I'm kinda curious about your storytelling process and how you go about that. You know, like say you've, you've worked with various brands, whether it's uh, you know, Garmin, TerraX and stuff. So if you get a creative project, how, so let me reframe that actually.

[00:32:21] Chris Watson: Your approach to storytelling, is that something that comes natural to you or, or is it something you've studied and do you have influences that help you kind of build your, your storytelling? 

[00:32:30] Toby Roney: Um, I think, yeah, so that kind of comes back to the courses that I've done and the kind of my following my intellectual curiosity in different areas.

[00:32:39] Toby Roney: And I think with the whole storytelling thing, like you look at, let's say filmmaking or just photography as a whole kind of section, but underneath that umbrella you've got so much, you've got kind of the pre-production, you've got the actual expedition and you've got the post-production. Um, and then there's so many different layers, et cetera, into that.

[00:32:54] Toby Roney: But I've been quite interested in all of them. Um, so I've got quite a [00:33:00] unique kind of twist on it in that I can help. Pre-planned an expedition, kind of vaguely know what I'm talking about, that I wouldn't say it's my strongest point, but I know the terminology and I know the kind of rough structure to kind of get the expedition moving, maybe get some sponsors on board and start looking at where we're gonna go and different routes.

[00:33:16] Toby Roney: And then we come into the actual shooting. So this kind of quickly jump to the end is obviously you've got the editing of it and kind of telling a story. Um, and I do that myself as well. So I, I do work with much more talented people than, uh, than me in terms of editors. Um, but I do edit a little bit myself.

[00:33:32] Toby Roney: I'm editing a project right now and I'm kind trying to carve out the story, but it just means when I'm shooting, um, I ca I'm understanding and I know what kind of shots an editor would like to see and what kind of story hierarchies they're gonna try and tell. Um, so I can shoot it in a certain way and.

[00:33:49] Toby Roney: I do think that's quite an interesting take because it's like the words of like, jack of all trade comes to mind. But I think that's kind of, I don't know, downplaying it a little mu [00:34:00] a little bit too much. I'm trying to Americanize myself sometimes I'm very British in the way I talk down and like, ah, it's fine, it's easy, but I, I'm trying to like Americanize myself a little bit.

[00:34:09] Toby Roney: Um, and it's always very awkward, um, trying to do so, but knowing different parts of those kind of stages I do think helps tell a story. 

[00:34:18] Chris Watson: Yeah. And see when you're in the fields actually filming and, and, because if I, you know, the, the expeditions, I want to come on to the, you know, alpha, the movie Navan, Neo Ko, uh, again, adaptive Adventurers and, and that and, and, uh, Nile and, and, and Ed.

[00:34:37] Chris Watson: But then working with Ed again during the, you know, the first ascent, uh, and, uh, Kyrgyzstan. How, how do, how do you weigh that up in terms of like. Trying to get the creative shot, but you know, there's obviously a safety angle to, to some of that as well, and being mindful of maybe not wanting to push the shot too much or the creative angle.

[00:34:56] Chris Watson: Do, do you ever get caught between trying to get this, [00:35:00] the story right, mindful of the adaptive nature of what you're actually filming? Has that ever been a factor for you? 

[00:35:08] Toby Roney: Definitely. I, I think it's one of those things about risk mi mitigation and, um, I, it was back in 2023, I was up in Scotland, a film festival, and I was watching, um, a beautiful film of this iconic mountain and it showed sweeping drone shots showcasing this, this mountain and this so-called path up towards the summit.

[00:35:26] Toby Roney: The narrator was talking about sheer kilometer drops on both the left and right of you as you start to head up towards the summit. That that mountain was the Matterhorn. I was watching this film and I'm not the biggest fan of heights. Um, so I lean over to the friend I was watching this film with and I just said, I'm never doing that.

[00:35:42] Toby Roney: I actually said, fuck that. But, um, I might have to cut that a little bit out. Um, and then fast forward to the next year, so mid to 2024, I was there sitting at home, um, comfortably, um, sat on the sofa with a coffee in hand and my phone rings and it's Ed, it's Ed Jackson that the same guy who I filmed, um, the previous year [00:36:00] in 2023 in Vatnajökull crossing, um, Europe's largest ice gap.

[00:36:03] Toby Roney: And he says, I've got a really cool idea. You're gonna love it. Um, there's no budget, so you're not gonna get paid, but I think we should go climb the Matterhorn. And before my rational brain catches up, I blurted out the words yes. S says Perfect, hangs up the phone. And I'm sat there thinking, what the hell have I just signed up to do?

[00:36:23] Toby Roney: Um. And once I said yes, like I knew, I was like, okay, there was some part of me that wanted to do this. And, um, even though I was filled to the brim with fear, because it, it honestly, it's, it terrified me. The idea of the full exposure for the entire route. Um, and also the length that would be out on the mountain for.

[00:36:40] Toby Roney: So for most people, it takes between eight and 10 hours to climb the matter horn. Uh, you start at 4:00 AM but, but for us, we were moving for 22 hours because it, um, has a spinal cord injury and he just moves a little bit slower than, than other people. Um, so we're kind of going up this mountain, um, with sheer kilometer drops on either side and sadly, um, about [00:37:00] 6:00 AM so two hours into our 22 hour day, uh, we witnessed a solo climber fall to their, well, to their death.

[00:37:06] Toby Roney: And it's kind of the blunt reminder of how mountains don't really care how experienced you are. Um, and I could say, this climb was really easy. And I was like, yeah, I took it in my stride and it was, it was piss easy for me, et cetera. But no, being honest, like I was terrified. Um, but not, not only on the mountain and watching the climb before, but the weeks before, like I was mentally preparing for it.

[00:37:26] Toby Roney: 'cause that's how my brain works. I wanna try and understand what I'm facing. And I was splitting the mountain up into different sections and I was gonna the gym five or six times a week to really make sure I was fit enough to, to do this. Um, but the other thing that I, I did with this was I knew that I had to mitigate the unnecessary risks.

[00:37:42] Toby Roney: So what I did, um, was I made sure that, so Ed had his own guide and, um, we were talking about it. Do I need a guide? Do I not? Can I go up it by myself? And I'm not the most experienced mountaineer. I'm not the, I'm not even, I'm a terrible climber. Um, so I knew I had to let my [00:38:00] ego aside and I said, I, I'm not doing this without a guide.

[00:38:02] Toby Roney: Who's looking after me? And me only because I need to be focused on, obviously, safety first and the people around me, but I also wanna be documenting this story to the best of my ability. And I need someone else in there as a buffer so I can be like, I wanna go over there. I'm gonna get this cool shot, and I'll ask my guide Bial, um, if I can go stand over over here and, um, take that photo and he'll assess the situation with his professional mind and, um, say yes or no.

[00:38:27] Toby Roney: And this whole thing taught me, um, that fear doesn't go away. You just get better at operating through it. And, um, that's exactly like how I looked at this and the idea of kind of taking this through, through comfort zones, but also looking into different harsh environments. And instead of looking at it with panic, trying to look at it through clarity and kind of take a moment and really aim, mitigate the risks, but also b.

[00:38:55] Toby Roney: And how you're pushing your comfort zones. 'cause like we talked about earlier, like we, we've all gotta push our comfort zones to try and do [00:39:00] that, but you've gotta do it with a little bit of caution. 

[00:39:03] Chris Watson: Okay. Did you share your vulnerabilities on that with Ed or your apprehension about exposure? 

[00:39:12] Toby Roney: Um, yeah. So this was actually, this is the third, no, that was the second adventure I did with Ed.

[00:39:18] Toby Roney: So, so far we've someone every year. So 2023 was Vatnajökull, uh, then it was the Matterhorn and then it was Kyrgyzstan, which I'm sure we'll move on to. Yeah. Um, so we, we've got, I think we've got like a really good relationship. Like I'm, I'm quite an open person. I talk about mental health issues in my past or talk about, um, being scared of fights, et cetera, all that kind of stuff.

[00:39:37] Toby Roney: 'cause I think it's very good to be open about that kind of stuff. Um. So, yeah, I, I remember we were chatting, I was chatting to him in the, the hotel when we were in Chamonix before we were climbing. And I, and I was like talking to him about, like, I was looking at the nearby Valley peaks and being like, okay, so if we did it from over there up there, that's what we've gotta move up.

[00:39:53] Toby Roney: We've gotta move up a vertical kilometer. He was just looking at me like, you're weirdo, like, we'll be fine. But he's, he's very good and a very, [00:40:00] um, calming person to be around. So we had some nice, um, chats about that. 

[00:40:04] Chris Watson: How, how, how was, because Ed obviously having like the background in rugby and then obviously really getting into the world of adventure, had he done much like mountaineering or, or stuff before?

[00:40:16] Toby Roney: He's done so many mountains. Yeah. I mean, I, I will, he's definitely a better person to ask on this. I think he had his spinal cord injury about seven or eight years ago. 

[00:40:25] Chris Watson: Yeah. 

[00:40:25] Toby Roney: Um, and then it took him a couple of years to get into mountains and climate, et cetera. Um, he's done so many peaks. I, I honestly, yeah.

[00:40:33] Toby Roney: I, I dunno. But more than me. Definitely more than me. Yeah. 

[00:40:36] Chris Watson: Yeah. It's, it's a, it's an in what you, what you touched on there is, is interesting 'cause, 'cause I struggle with heights, but not all the time. And I can never put my mind on it. And I, I, like I said before, I, I'm a paddler more so than, than anything.

[00:40:51] Chris Watson: Um. But I couldn't swim until I was late into my, my twenties. And I had, uh, I had real fear of water. I'd nearly drowned when I was younger. [00:41:00] And I, and my way to overcome that was to, to learn to become, uh, to learn to swim. But then I learn to become a paddle sports instructor to overcome that. And I can be paddling and it, but then I'll just, something will just twi and then it'll just put me on that, you know, am I gonna get scared or, or, and, and it, something just catches me.

[00:41:17] Chris Watson: But the same with heights. I could climb up something, it could be absolutely fine. And then another time something just gets me and it grips you. And it's like, and it doesn't immobilize me, but I'm like, I don't understand my brain or what's going on. 

[00:41:28] Toby Roney: It makes sense though, like it's, it's a flat fight or flight kind of instant.

[00:41:31] Toby Roney: Yeah. Like we've got these things in our brain to stop us doing this kind of stuff. Yeah. And I think it's gonna take ages for our brain to actually catch up and rewire and be like, we are actually safe. But that's why I think the combination of. Looking and talking about, uh, like we did before, we're talking about philosophy, but we're also talking about psychology and how the brain works.

[00:41:49] Toby Roney: I, I think we're both really interested in that because you can translate that to the outdoors. Like you had that little switch when you were paddling, and I've had it when it's like when climbing, you've gotta calm yourself down, and [00:42:00] what the next steps are. Um, and it's all just about psychology. Like just understanding the brain and understanding yourself, whether you do that through, uh, being selfish with one hour of your time every week with counseling, and you pay someone to listen to you so you don't have that ping pong conversation effect with someone else trying to get something else in, and then you bouncing back, et cetera.

[00:42:18] Toby Roney: Um, or you do it through meditation or you do journaling or however you do it. Um, I, I think it's really quite wise to be trying to understand your brain. 

[00:42:28] Chris Watson: Yeah. Here, here. I agree wholeheartedly. Uh, in terms of an environment, you know, switching it back to that, what's. What envi, what environments do you think you thrive in more than others?

[00:42:42] Chris Watson: Or what, what's your preference if you had a choice, your ideal project? Um, not to, not to, not to badge, not to put you into a, a box by the way. And anyone, any brands that might be watching or listening and think it doesn't want anything other than sitting in Joshua Tree, but what would your be? [00:43:00]

[00:43:00] Toby Roney: I think that's a really good question, but I kind of wanna go two ways with this.

[00:43:07] Toby Roney: Like I've mentioned earlier, I knew from my teenage years that I was, I would be very bored if I just did one thing. And we talked about it in terms, well actually how we connected was through LinkedIn. And you saw that I owned Iron Raft, which is a, a company that I own where we sell pack rafting, uh, pack RAFs and pack rafting accessories.

[00:43:27] Toby Roney: And you came in and kind of, we started that conversation and it grew to this about you kind of finding out a little bit more about me. And obviously we've done this, but that's just a prime example of how. I exercised my brain when I was younger and I realized like I'm, I'm gonna get bored if I just do one thing forever.

[00:43:43] Toby Roney: Um, so I ended up buying this company Iron Raf, when I was 18 for a thousand pounds. Um, you, it was a lot of money for me back then. It was like all the money I had, I was like, okay, cool. Let's just, let's just go ahead and get it. Um, and it was one of those things that I was able to kind of exercise a different part of my [00:44:00] brain.

[00:44:00] Toby Roney: Um, and I was exercising like this business side of my brain in terms of accounting, stock, all of these different bits and bobs. Um, so in kind of answer to your question about. Wanting to, what's your dream situation? I'm just excited by new things. I, I'm, I love doing lots of different things and I think that's why it, I'm in quite an odd situation in that I can operate in different environments.

[00:44:23] Toby Roney: I can scuba dive with a camera. Um, I know how to operate on ropes. Um, I'm not a climber, but I, I kind of can film climbers. Um, I know how to fly drones. I know how to take photos. I know how to edit. There's a lot of different things. Um, and I'm kind of just following my interests and, um. Doing what I like.

[00:44:40] Toby Roney: I, I don't think I do too much of what I don't like because I'm not gonna be very good at it. So for example, accounting, I don't do that anymore 'cause I'm terrible with numbers. So I have someone else who does that. And like, it's the same with thing with color grading, like with film. Um, I tried it, I was terrible at it.

[00:44:54] Toby Roney: I was trying to edit this shot of a sheep and the grass looked so green, it was like [00:45:00] Hulk Green. And I was like, I dunno how to change this. So even after loads of YouTube researching, so I now have, I try and find someone else who's much better at that than me and kind of like they can have it and they can have fun with that because that's their expertise.

[00:45:13] Chris Watson: Toby, switching back to the Expeditions with Ed. So that Khan Expedition, the first ascent and the 4,000 meters 

[00:45:21] Toby Roney: 4,000. 4,720, 

[00:45:23] Chris Watson: yeah. What was that experience like? I'm just interested in the planning and the logistics and what it was like on the mountain, uh, you know, and yeah, and the pacing required to do that because, you know, quite an undertaking, uh, part particularly well with ed's, uh, you know, adaptive nature, that as well.

[00:45:42] Chris Watson: So talk us through that. Yeah. 

[00:45:45] Toby Roney: So, um, yeah, this was last August, so, um, what was that like? What, six months ago now? Four, five, I dunno. Yeah. Anyway, it was, so it was last August, um, and we're over in Stan, uh, trying to climb a [00:46:00] first ascent. So it was, um, a, we ended up climbing it 4,720 meters. Um, a newly named, uh, mountain Hope Peak because when you climb a mountain, you get to name it.

[00:46:09] Toby Roney: Um, and this was a first, first ascent by a disabled mountaineer. So it was an ascent by Ed. Um, and it k sounds quite a wild place because it's, it is 90%. Um. Covered in mountains. So it's just a perfect place to go and try and find some mountains to go and like play around on and go and find some unclimbed peaks.

[00:46:28] Toby Roney: Um, and where we were, it was 20 miles from the most landlocked location on earth. So it's pretty, pretty far out there. Pretty wild. It takes two days to get into base camp. So you're in, um, you pile into a Russian gas 66, um, and it is boiling inside 'cause it doesn't have any air conditioning. And then you open the window and then uh, the dirt outside kicks up and like coats your teeth and then the diesel fumes come in and then you're there in the cab just like, ah, I wanna like be able to breathe.

[00:46:53] Toby Roney: But I also, I'm way too warm in this cow. So you have to choose between the two. Um, and you, you mentioned the objective with [00:47:00] this, this certain mountain, and it wasn't about conquering the mountain, it wasn't about we're gonna go climb this and we're gonna be owning this little piece of land and this is gonna be ours.

[00:47:09] Toby Roney: I actually took kind of points about people and community away from this. So there's this local shepherd, for example, who was near our base camp, and I think he owned something crazy like, I wanna say it was like 400, but it may have been 4,000 horses in, in this valley. Um, he owned like yak sheep, loads of different animals, and he had, um, two young girls and, um, his wife and they invited us in every couple of days for freshly baked bread.

[00:47:33] Toby Roney: Um, it was like baked on dried yak, dung, um, as I do out there, um, with yak milk butter and homemade jam. And then the, the other people who were part of our team, it was Jake, an incredibly talented, um, expedition director and camera op, uh, first time working with him, but he is just such a nice, authentic guy.

[00:47:49] Toby Roney: Like just one of the nicest guys out there. Uh, Paul, who was our guide, so the kind of creative team's guide. So he was keeping an eye on, um, Jake and I, mainly me, um, our kind of safety on [00:48:00] the mountain. And then he had age who's a lead guide, so. Ed was actually over there with Leo Holding, um, a month before we went out with Ed.

[00:48:07] Toby Roney: Um, so it's the perfect like reference if Leo holding trusts him to kind of like be his guide. It's like, yeah, we're in safe hands. And then obviously we had Ed, um, who I'd like mentioned before, we'd both climbed, um, the Matterhorn and um, I filmed him, um, in Vatnajökull crossing Europe's largest ice cap. And why I mention all these different people is because for me, what this trip was, was about community.

[00:48:30] Toby Roney: Um, I read this book a couple of years ago, um, it's called Tribe by Sebastian Junger, and he talks about what are the things that make baseline human happiness? And he talks about authenticity, purpose, and community. And when he is talking about community, he talks about how belongings beat comfort, um, and people will endure hardship if they feel needed.

[00:48:51] Toby Roney: Remove that, and you get, remove that and you get loneliness, anxiety, and you feel pretty meaningless. And this kind of expedition, a [00:49:00] lot of expeditions summed this up perfectly in the idea that we all had our role to play and we all kind of fitted really well together in like a kind of jigsaw sense. Um, and it just made me feel really, really grateful for the community that I had.

[00:49:11] Toby Roney: And, um, it took, ticked that box for me about being surrounded by people who were a inspirational, but they were the top of their game. Brilliant conversations that every, in every single one of them about life, philosophy and just the amazing, like outdoors. And there's a saying, which if people ask me about like my career steps, et cetera, um, I always say that I've stood on the shoulders of giants.

[00:49:36] Toby Roney: And that's exactly what I mean by this. Like each one of them were expert in their field and it was just great to kind of chat them and learn from them and be a part of that kind of community. And yeah, I, I think that's. It's just nice to be able to look at it from this kind of expedition. It's quite a unique one, like climbing UNC Climbed peak, um, and a world first ascent.

[00:49:56] Toby Roney: But to get something more meaningful then yeah, we conquered this [00:50:00] mountain. It was actually, wow, like we had some really cool chats and learn a lot about community and the idea of what it is to be part of a tribe. And it wasn't little tribe. We were over there for three weeks. We listened to music, we danced, we were like drinking Russian homemade moonshine at the end of this trip, and we're all just reminiscing and having some really good, honest time with each other.

[00:50:23] Chris Watson: That's fantastic. You wrote a piece on that, didn't you? For one of the, the magazines. I, because, and I, I remember, I think I might have said that to you at the time. I remember reading it and it being quite evocative and, and almost kinda emotional a little bit because you could, you could just sense the sincerity of that.

[00:50:39] Chris Watson: And I, I can't remember where was that article all because I wanted to get that linked actually on that. 

[00:50:45] Toby Roney: Yeah, no, for sure. So there was two actually. So I wrote one for, um, the Marlo review, um, and then the other one for So yacht, how on that website, they've got a kind of a journal expedition Yeah. Um, blog site.

[00:50:58] Toby Roney: So I wrote something for that, [00:51:00] but it kind of links back to the reason why I think. Well, I'm glad you got the kind of the emotional side for it because, um, like I said, it was such a interesting expedition, um, that we, I got a lot from it about the community side, but when I was over there and on every expedition, I actually, I journal, so I'd get a, a physical notepad and pen, and I kind of, every morning I'll be jotting things down and writing bits and bobs down.

[00:51:22] Toby Roney: So that's how I kind of got to, it's like a free form of counseling. Mm-hmm. Like, it's, it's a really nice check in every single day to be like, okay, how am I feeling physically, mentally? What am I excited for? And kind of just homing in these different thoughts that everything's balanced in your mind. Um, and that, that's why I look back to when I was writing those pieces, um, which is why I think that maybe emotional side came across.

[00:51:41] Chris Watson: Oh, do, do you do, uh. Because Jo journaling is something that I, 'cause I think we get quite similar values with with stuff like that. And I mean, I, I've been in therapy, not now, but I had been for a long, long time and I think kinda worked through it. And weirdly, this, this whole podcast is a product of that because that's what kind of veered me [00:52:00] towards that.

[00:52:00] Chris Watson: But that aside, I do, I've, Jo journaling, I've kinda struggled with like, but I, I do stuff in my phone, my notes all the time. But I do affirmations every single day. And a gratitude thing where it's like just one or two and it's not a writing loads of stuff, it's just like three points and it's the first thing that comes to mind.

[00:52:17] Chris Watson: But just curious, do you do anything like that? Affirmations or, or visualization? Anything like that? Yeah, 

[00:52:23] Toby Roney: all of it. Honestly, I, it's like I'm a walking, talking self-help book. Um, I've always been into like that kind of stuff. Self-help book, uh, self-help books, podcasts, um, for ages. Um, and I, I think that started in like my mid-teens.

[00:52:36] Toby Roney: So basically went through this huge anxiety, um, blip. And I, I could like, barely feel comfortable going outside. Like I remember having like a pretty extreme panic attack, uh, by myself when I was just cycling through the fields in my, my home. And it's just like, well, there's nothing to be afraid of here.

[00:52:52] Toby Roney: So I was like, there's, there's something's not right. Um, and what I decided, what actually got it from a book was You can change, I [00:53:00] read something about you can change the subconscious structure of your brain. Sounds really wordy and quite wanky, if I'm honest. But what it just talks about is the idea that you can just change how you, uh, view things through neuroplasticity.

[00:53:11] Toby Roney: And, um, it talked about yes theory. So it talked about the idea of what happens when you say yes to things. And, um, I kind of adopted that, uh, when I, after I had this huge anxiety spiral and I said yes to random things, so I said yes to, um, when my friend asked me if I'd go to Istanbul with him for 48 hours.

[00:53:29] Toby Roney: Um, in between school. So we, I lit, skipped my last lesson on Friday, boarded a plane with, uh, my friend Clement and flew over to Istanbul for 48 hours and we spent 48 hours, um, eating pizza and rooftops, um, drinking beer and meeting the locals and photographing people in the spice markets all to return back on, uh, Monday, um, in time for the first lesson.

[00:53:49] Toby Roney: And it's funny 'cause looking back, I remember getting told off my geography teacher and being like, where were you? And I was just like, well, I decided to go to Istanbul and I thought she'd be proud of me exploring a new culture [00:54:00] and gonna see a different country. And even though I bought a bag of dried Mango back for her as a form of apology, she still gave me a detention.

[00:54:07] Toby Roney: Um, 

[00:54:08] Chris Watson: that's 

[00:54:08] Toby Roney: crazy. But it was, it was one of those things that then led to, um, me then asking others to come on adventures with me. So it then came to that Ginger and Frenchie trip that I mentioned about the land and John Groats. And that then kickstarted that, um. Now I feel like it is just kind of inbuilt within me in terms of just saying yes.

[00:54:25] Toby Roney: So when Ed rang me up about the Matterhorn, I was just like, yes, before my brain caught up with me and I was just like, oh crap, what have I signed up to? Now it's the same thing with this, like, I don't like talking. 

[00:54:35] Chris Watson: Yeah. 

[00:54:35] Toby Roney: Um, I'm terrified of it. Like most people, like public speaking is one of the most, uh, scary things for quite a lot of people around the globe.

[00:54:42] Toby Roney: And I was just like, well, you gotta say yes to it, don't you? You think that's quite a big part? 

[00:54:46] Chris Watson: I mean, you talked. Touching on that, that whole yesterday. I mean, I, I will butcher this, but I, I think 'cause I, I'm a bit similar like that 'cause I, I get myself into lots of situations, good and bad because it's, I, I don't know if it's an impulsive thing [00:55:00] because I just want to test myself and say yes.

[00:55:02] Chris Watson: And, and I'll think about it later. 'cause I know I'll always prepare and give it 110% to make sure I don't underachieve or under prepare or whatever it is. But I've got myself into all sorts of like great situations and bad situations and, and last just almost a year to this day, I was in Barcelona speaking in front of two and a half thousand people on stage.

[00:55:25] Chris Watson: Wow. At, at the day job. Nice. And that was. I don't like speaking in public either. And it was terrifying. But that was something that came as a product of, the other side of that story is I get put in a presentation in a corporate environment years ago, and I crumbled, absolutely crumbled, couldn't remember my words and stuff.

[00:55:42] Chris Watson: And then I was like, never, that's never happening again. And then I put, and then, and these things just find a way of working out if you, if you just give it there, that's it. 

[00:55:52] Toby Roney: Ex Exactly. It. Yeah. It's just like, yeah, you kind of, even if you say yes to something and it fails, um, you either find out [00:56:00] where you went wrong or you find out that you don't really actually like that thing.

[00:56:03] Toby Roney: And um, yeah, you, you learn something from it, which is quite nice. Even if you are up on stage and you forgot your words and it's terrifying. It's, uh, part of it. And also then in the years' time or so, it becomes a great story, right? 

[00:56:14] Chris Watson: Yeah. E exactly. And, and sometimes I, I find like when you see Ty, things that are like.

[00:56:22] Chris Watson: Overwhelmingly overpowering and stuff, and whether it's an anxiety thing or other than when you get into it, like I saying, like not being able to swim, being scared of water and then doing the paddle thing. But then sometimes when things happen it is like, it is, I'm almost like looking outside at myself that the thing you, it is almost like you're not in your own body.

[00:56:40] Chris Watson: When the thing happens, it's, it's like an example I'm going off. Ramble here, but that's 

[00:56:46] Toby Roney: interesting. 

[00:56:46] Chris Watson: Let's keep 

[00:56:47] Toby Roney: going. 

[00:56:47] Chris Watson: I capsized when I was paddling and, and, uh, I was in fair of Ventura and I was paddling out to this island on like this mini expedition and I wasn't paying attention and capsized and, and I had [00:57:00] to like self rescue and I.

[00:57:01] Chris Watson: Terrified of deep water, but even my paddle sports instructor and done all the training and those things and it was like an outer body experience, you know, trying to like get back into the kayak and, you know, I didn't have anything to bail it with and, and then get back and it was just, and then when you think back, it's like you look and people were taking photos and all that after it, and it was like, did that actually happen?

[00:57:22] Chris Watson: Uh, yeah. And I shouldn't say I shouldn't have went on the trip in the first place 'cause I wasn't particularly prepared at that point in time. And I'd been out the night before and then when you look back at, it's just like, all these skills just kind like kind kick in and you're like, uh, it's, yeah. I don't know what the point of that was, but it was, uh, long and wind.

[00:57:39] Toby Roney: I guess it's the idea of, yeah, it's, I mean, I guess sometimes you do trip up and like when you do say yes to stuff, it's not necessarily gonna lead to, I don't know, the gold at the end of the rainbow. 

[00:57:48] Chris Watson: Yeah. 

[00:57:48] Toby Roney: You can always flip the coin. Like you can always twist it in a certain way. Um, even if it is a horrendous experience like that.

[00:57:55] Toby Roney: It's, it's, these are definitely stolen words and I'm gonna butcher it, but, um, it's Matthew [00:58:00] McConaughey. Really like his book, it's Green Lights, um, it's called Green Lights. That's 

[00:58:02] Chris Watson: fantastic. Yeah. 

[00:58:03] Toby Roney: And he talks about four 

[00:58:04] Chris Watson: times yet. 

[00:58:05] Toby Roney: Yeah. It, it's great. But I, I love you. You'll know this then. But he talks about a traffic light system.

[00:58:10] Toby Roney: Mm-hmm. Which is why the book's called Green Lights and the fact that when an experience is bad, it's initially a red, but the thing is like traffic lights, things can change so they can turn from a red to a green. And, um, I, I think it's the same thing with, with me and on shoots when things fail. So I was over in, when was it?

[00:58:27] Toby Roney: It was in 2023 I think it was. And I was over in Nepal and I was filming this first ever, um, docuseries for Garmin. So we're over there just north of Kathmandu in Langtang Valley filming with these two regular guys with, um, Garmin Phoenix watches, um, hiker Trail for seven days. And when, um, the first day I just knew something wasn't quite right.

[00:58:49] Toby Roney: I didn't feel very well, but I decided to kind of crack on anyway. And it's kind of gross. But I remember quite vivid memory of, um, I was filming like this and like the camera was down below my head. [00:59:00] Snot, it's just dripping from my nose straight into my camera. I'm just like, but this is such a cool shot.

[00:59:04] Toby Roney: Hold it, hold it, hold it. And I remember like trying to kind like wipe it all away before anyone saw it. Really gross, but just showed like I was getting more and more ill. And by day three I wasn't sleeping. Um, uh, which led to like night sweats. And um, I was just exhausted. And then that led to me hallucinating.

[00:59:20] Toby Roney: So I remember seeing this, uh, three floating yak in front of me, um, when I'm pretty sure there should have only been one of them with a, who's firmly planted on the ground. Um, but I just realized I'm, this isn't very good. Like I'm not feeling very well, so I. I remember calling a, um, a meeting. So it was myself, our local fixer from, from Nepal and then Kyle who's, um, the big boss man from, um, a big boss man producer from Garmin, and then the director who hired me, Alex.

[00:59:47] Toby Roney: And, uh, we kind of just sat down and I was explaining, I feel terrible. So we kind of came up with two options. Option one was, um, to hire a horse from a local village, get me on the back of it and finish the trek [01:00:00] while I was on a horse and get off when I think, um, I should kind of film a certain sequence and then get back on to try and recover and keep going while everyone else was hiking or option two was to keep going and maybe end up getting me like heli-vacked, or they're gonna have to leave me in a.

[01:00:14] Toby Roney: Hot somewhere and they crack on with a journey. Um, but as I was the only camera op hired for this, uh, job, um, we decided to go with a horse. So I've got some pretty cool photos somewhere of me, like right on the horse, wielding a gimbal and capturing the beautiful mountains around me. Um, but we, we came to the end of the end of the trip on, on day seven, got up to the peak, and, uh, Kyle, the producer from Garmin took me aside and, um, he shook my hand and said, let's travel the world together.

[01:00:39] Toby Roney: And he went on to saying how impressed he was with like the, my resiliency to get the job done. And the fact I took ownership and again, pushed my ego aside and was like, I'm not doing well. Like, I need help and I need you guys to come up with different ideas of how we can get there. And I'm trying to do the best for the production.

[01:00:56] Toby Roney: Um. But it kind of just went to show, [01:01:00] um, that you really have to trust yourself and you need to be able to adapt in those different situations. Um, and I'm quite proud now because that series, it's called, it's called Seven Days Out, it's on YouTube. You can go and have a look at it. Um, but it was just one of those things where things go wrong.

[01:01:13] Toby Roney: You have to take ownership in, in your actions and trust yourself. 

[01:01:17] Chris Watson: And people notice that you know, that it's good that the chap picked up on that because people, they want authenticity and vulnerability and trust. They wanna be able to trust, like you say, and putting that ego aside and, and no doubt, those are the things that pay, you know, that come back around in time and time again, you know?

[01:01:35] Chris Watson: Uh. Excellent. Uh, 

[01:01:38] Toby Roney: well, it comes back to the Junger's book. Was it from, um, Sebastian Junger? Like, like I mentioned earlier, those three things. One of those was authenticity and sticking to your authentic self. And, um, kind of not, not being battered around too much by other people's opinions and really sticking with what you believe in.

[01:01:53] Toby Roney: 'cause like you said, that's what people remember. Um, and kind of yeah, follow that authentic view and [01:02:00] follow your passions and kind of, yeah. I guess it sums up what we've been talking about today. 

[01:02:03] Chris Watson: Yeah. And just curiosities, uh, this has been awesome. Toby, I think been on for over an hour already with a, a bit of a, uh, fellow fellow.

[01:02:12] Chris Watson: Philosophical rants or rambles or what, whatever we want to call it. It's been absolutely wonderful. A little bit of a kinda departure from some of the stuff that I usually talk on. This will probably, probably oversharing, uh, but it's been, it's been, 

[01:02:25] Toby Roney: I think it's good. I think it's good. I'm sure some people will, will not like it, maybe turn off, but I do think it's an interesting one to try and talk about this stuff they we're interested in.

[01:02:34] Toby Roney: Um, yeah. And yeah, have these, I think, difficult conversations. I think sometimes these kind of conversations about mental health are Yeah, still a little bit taboo when maybe they shouldn't be. 

[01:02:43] Chris Watson: Yeah. And, and especially coming from two to two guys as well. I, I, hopefully people can take the sincerity that and the authenticity that's intended from this isn't intended to be, you know, labeling or putting monikers or, you know, being contrived at all.

[01:02:59] Chris Watson: [01:03:00] That's it. It's not, not that at all. Um. Excellent. So what probably good opportunity that now to kinda move into closing traditions, uh, on, uh, on the show. So, so there's three, uh, uh, called Adventure A paid Forward, uh, and then I've got to close out for some fun 10 quick fire questions that you haven't seen or heard that you, you can pass, uh, on anything.

[01:03:28] Chris Watson: But try not to, 'cause it's not fun. If you, 

[01:03:32] Toby Roney: okay. 

[01:03:33] Chris Watson: If you, let's see 

[01:03:34] Toby Roney: this, 

[01:03:34] Chris Watson: but we'll start, we'll start with a p uh, start with, with a pay forward, uh, for start. So, so. An opportunity to raise awareness for any worthy projects or causes that you would like people to be aware of or get involved or involved in.

[01:03:47] Chris Watson: So what would your pay forward recommendation be? 

[01:03:50] Toby Roney: Um, so I, I would say M to M, um, millimeters to mountains. It's run by Ed and Lewis. They're a bit of a power couple. Um, and it's a mental health charity that [01:04:00] takes people into the outdoors and uses. The power of power of adventure and community to help redefine, um, people's limitations.

[01:04:08] Toby Roney: Um, I've worked with Ed for the last three years and he is just such a incredible inspirational character. Like, every time I surround myself with him and people like him, I kind of just feel like, um, my brain has just been soaked in a whole cup of coffee and it's just absorbed all and I get really excited about different things I wanna try and different adventures I wanna go and, and, um, different concepts, all this kind of stuff.

[01:04:29] Toby Roney: So I, I definitely say that one. And then just to add to that as well, actually, when we were over in Kyrgyzstan, ed went over with his, some of M two M'S beneficiaries a few weeks before Jake and I got to base camp, and we had a day crossover with them. I can say they're some of the most incredible awe inspiring and some of the, the, the genuine, best humans I've ever met and had the pleasure of meeting, um, are the, those beneficiaries out in Stan.

[01:04:54] Toby Roney: They're, they were just amazing. Like, I'm gonna get emotional if I keep talking about it, but I would definitely [01:05:00] say go and have a look at M two M. Uh, they're doing amazing stuff and, um, it's a really, really good cause. 

[01:05:05] Chris Watson: Fantastic, fantastic. That's the second time it's been, uh, recommended on the show, which is excellent.

[01:05:10] Chris Watson: That's, that's 

[01:05:11] Toby Roney: good. 

[01:05:11] Chris Watson: Yeah. So hopefully it 

[01:05:12] Toby Roney: won't be the last 

[01:05:13] Chris Watson: Yeah, yeah, no, I, I agree. It might actually, yeah. 'cause I think Nile also mentioned it as well. Uh, that's good. Uh, yeah. Excellent. Uh, millimeters to mountains, I fully, uh, support and endorse that as well, so we'll get that linked as well. Excellent. Uh, and so next, a call to adventure.

[01:05:31] Chris Watson: So something for people to get excited. Uh, it doesn't need to be climbing the Matterhorn, uh, or anything like that, but just an opportunity to raise an activity or something to inspire viewers and listeners. 

[01:05:45] Toby Roney: I would say the simple idea of saying yes. And like you said, I'm not talking about climbing the Matterhorn or freezing your butt off in a tent for three days and on van, but say yes to little things like you never know what it could lead.

[01:05:56] Toby Roney: Like if you say yes to that coffee with a friend you haven't seen for a while or a [01:06:00] course you are always interested in, like it could lead somewhere interesting. And you never know what kind of doors are gonna open. Um, so I think follow that intuition and slight interest in whatever it is, even if it's spoon whittling.

[01:06:11] Toby Roney: Yeah, just go and do it. Go and give it a go. Um, because I think it will always lead to Yeah. Interesting places and cool adventures. 

[01:06:18] Chris Watson: Yeah. Uh, exactly. If you've got an idea, it's bubbling around in your head or it has been in your gut, you're being scared to say yes to yourself. Go and book that course.

[01:06:25] Toby Roney: That's it. 

[01:06:25] Chris Watson: Or go and go and get it. Go and get it done and do it whenever. Yeah. Do it after this. When you're listening to this, just go make it the next thing that you search. Excellent. 

[01:06:34] Toby Roney: Totally 

[01:06:34] Chris Watson: agree. 

[01:06:34] Toby Roney: Uh, 

[01:06:35] Chris Watson: right. So this has been wonderful. Uh, Toby. So now to, can I close out 10 quick fire questions? Uh. And as I say, you can feel free to skip, but don't, 'cause it's not fun if you skip the questions.

[01:06:48] Chris Watson: Okay, let's 

[01:06:48] Toby Roney: do this. 

[01:06:49] Chris Watson: So, uh, right question one of 10. You can have a dinner party with two guests, dead or alive. Who would they be? 

[01:06:55] Toby Roney: Okay, I would say, this is gonna be a very weird answer. Some people won't know who [01:07:00] this person is, but, um, someone called Naval Ravikant, he's a Silicon Valley tech investor. This is definitely not one for an outdoor podcast, but, uh, the reason I say him is it will come up in a second.

[01:07:10] Toby Roney: But the other guy I would say is Alex Stroll. He's a photographer, uh, based over in Canada. Always admired his work. And the reason why I combine them two together is because I think we'd have really cool conversations about life philosophy. And two different ends of the spectrum. Like you've got Silicon Valley and tech investing, millions of pounds, et cetera.

[01:07:30] Toby Roney: And then you've got this guy who's made a living taking photos and creating beautiful art. And I think there's a lot of crossover and I'd be interested to know what the crossover is. 

[01:07:37] Chris Watson: Ah, fantastic. Fantastic. I always like that question. 'cause you get contrasting eh, dinner party, guessing, it's always like, what would they talk about as well as, you know, what would they have in common?

[01:07:48] Chris Watson: So that's, that's, yeah. Interesting. You've actually thought about that. Brilliant. Number two, do you have a hidden talent? 

[01:07:55] Toby Roney: Do I have a hidden talent? Um, I wouldn't say it's hidden, but being ginger, I get burnt easily. [01:08:00] Dunno if it's a talent, but I, I guess I'm a chameleon in that way. Stand out inside, in front of the sun for about five minutes and I'll be bright red.

[01:08:07] Chris Watson: Yeah. I, and I picked up, you played the piano earlier so that, I think that goes as a bit of a talent. Yeah. 

[01:08:12] Toby Roney: Piano. 

[01:08:12] Chris Watson: Yeah. Yeah. 

[01:08:13] Toby Roney: I can play one song. I don't think that counts. 

[01:08:15] Chris Watson: Yeah. I, well, so can I twinkle. No twinkle. It's not twinkle, twinkle. It was that. It's Silent Night. 

[01:08:20] Toby Roney: That's a head bang of that one. It's 

[01:08:22] Chris Watson: silent night.

[01:08:22] Chris Watson: It's not twinkle, twinkle. Uh uh. Excellent. Number three, what is the wildest, craziest, or scariest experience you've ever had on an adventure? 

[01:08:33] Toby Roney: Oh, that's a good one. Um, oh, I'm trying to think of something I haven't already said. Um, this is just a really random one, but maybe nearly crashing my motorbike, um, into a car when I was riding from the UK over to the board of Slovenia.

[01:08:49] Toby Roney: Um, yeah, that was a very fun, 

[01:08:52] Chris Watson: oh, uh, I should maybe reword that to near death experiences. 'cause these are all the things that seem to come up. Uh, [01:09:00] excellent. Uh, number four, if, if you could relive any moment from your life. For the first time again, what would it be? Oh, 

[01:09:06] Toby Roney: um, I feel like most people don't answer like the date they got married or when their kids were born, but I don't have either.

[01:09:12] Toby Roney: I'm gonna go for, I, there was a moment I was driving my, uh, self-built camper van, uh, through Europe and the sun was setting and I was decided to look at my window and I saw this mountain. So I decided to head up that mountain and take a photo. And I remember vividly looking through the eyepiece of my camera and bringing the camera up to my face and looking through and being like, damn, like this is pretty cool that my camera has bought me here.

[01:09:36] Toby Roney: Like it's almost, it is, it still is. But it was the moment I realized that a camera could be my ticket and passport.

[01:09:46] Chris Watson: Uh, excellent. Uh, number five, what was the last music gig that you went to? 

[01:09:52] Toby Roney: Uh, this is, this was actually two days ago, so I'm over in California at the moment, and it was in Joshua Tree and it was an open [01:10:00] mic at this local bar. Uh, so me and my partner, we sat down having a burger, um, and everyone just started playing random songs and it was just like the really cool, wacky characters you got in Joshua Tree.

[01:10:12] Toby Roney: Like there's, I don't wanna go into too much detail, um, but it was just like, just so many different people like wearing jean jackets and jean jeans and someone wearing like a full velvet outfit with giant sunglasses playing the tambourine. And the music was incredible. Like they were all songs they wrote and they're talking about.

[01:10:30] Toby Roney: Cacti out in the desert and their desert houses. And to be careful of what you look in, your check your boots before you leave your house, just in case there's any surprises. And it was just a ma a magical experience. Very, very cool. 

[01:10:42] Chris Watson: Wonderful. Wonderful. Uh, number six, what's your favorite 

[01:10:46] Toby Roney: b favorite book?

[01:10:47] Toby Roney: I would say, um, your ard. He wrote a book saying, let my people Go. It called Let My People Go Surfing. And it talks about business ethics and, um, I think it's just very interesting. 

[01:10:59] Chris Watson: Excellent. [01:11:00] Excellent. Uh, number seven, what is the biggest lesson you've learned on an on an adventure? 

[01:11:06] Toby Roney: Um, I'd say because it keeps on coming up.

[01:11:08] Toby Roney: But trust yourself. Um, even if No, I, no one has any idea what they're doing. And you probably think that most about yourself, but no one has any idea what you're doing. So you've just gotta trust yourself, trust your gut. Yes. And kind of trust the process that you know roughly what you're doing. Yeah, exactly.

[01:11:26] Toby Roney: And exactly. Excellent. Love that. Uh, number eight, what scares you? What scares me? Um, I would say, so I'm not religious, but I would say coming to the end of my life and realizing what could have been like being shown. Well, you are here, but you could have been over there if you did this or did this a little bit more, or that kind of thing.

[01:11:46] Toby Roney: Um, and I'd also say elevators, don't I? Elevators too claustrophobic. Yeah. Yeah. 

[01:11:52] Chris Watson: Claustrophobic smell. Number nine. What makes you happy? 

[01:11:55] Toby Roney: Oh, that's a good one. Coffee. Oh, I love coffee. I'm a bit, a bit of a [01:12:00] caffeine addict, but like a really nice coffee outside. Yeah. Especially a morning coffee. Um, if you go outside, just, just, I don't know, look at some trees and drinks some coffee.

[01:12:07] Toby Roney: Like, always, always makes me happy. 

[01:12:10] Chris Watson: You get far too many things in common. This is absolutely spooky. That's, that's the saddest thing that I'd like. 'cause I was away for two days and I forgot to take my, my, eh. Coffee press and my coffee, uh, away and it was terrible 'cause it was so cold. And then coming back to the lodge at the end of the night.

[01:12:26] Chris Watson: Yeah. Uh, and, and in, I dunno 

[01:12:27] Toby Roney: how you survived. 

[01:12:29] Chris Watson: Uh, and I had packed it as well, but I just changed my bag at the last minute anyway. Uh, I love that coffee. Uh, what's the be so number 10, what is the best advice that you have ever received? 

[01:12:40] Toby Roney: Um, said it 

[01:12:41] Chris Watson: before, 

[01:12:42] Toby Roney: but I'd say to stand on the shoulders of giants.

[01:12:45] Toby Roney: And by that I mean you don't need to reinvent the wheel. Um, there's a lot of people who are experts in their field and they're more than happy to have a coffee with you. Like the amount of coffees I've had with, um, like world renowned photographers that I've admired just because, hey, I'm coming over this way, do you mind off and I'll [01:13:00] buy you a coffee or a beer.

[01:13:01] Toby Roney: Um, and we just chat and, um, sometimes we chat for like half a day and it's been really good. Um, but yeah. You also use other people's experiences. 

[01:13:09] Chris Watson: Yeah. No, I think the intent, the intent there is, is absolutely, it's so spot on. 'cause sometimes people with. You don't know if people, I mean, reach out. S partly, you know, it's why we are talking firstly, so like, you know, take the chance, you know, like, you know, that that could be conveyed into different, different ways.

[01:13:32] Chris Watson: You know, people are just people at the end of the day. And don't, don't think, don't, don't ever tell yourself no that someone said that in this podcast Be Before who was an asset astronaut. And he said, don't ever tell yourself no. If I told myself I didn't know that I could never be an astronaut and I would've never done that.

[01:13:46] Chris Watson: And he got himself into, you know, various situations where he wasn't physically the type to be an astronaut. And then he became an astronaut and spent the most, and it's crazy, these examples just reach out and, and, and take a chance 'cause. There's people that [01:14:00] have more experience, uh, have done it before that are willing to share.

[01:14:04] Chris Watson: Yeah. And I know not any better or worse a lot, it just take the chance, see on this. So, but it's, this has been phenomenal. Uh, Toby, we've, we've covered so, so much. There's been, uh, yeah, there's straight and so much about adventure, creative journeys, just going for it, you know, and a lot of philosophical things as well, which 

[01:14:25] Announcer: Yeah, 

[01:14:25] Chris Watson: hopefully people, and the, the mental health aspects to it and the wellbeing I think is very important because they, they do kind of.

[01:14:33] Chris Watson: There are parallels with that, you know, that using the outdoors as a means to process things like that and, and take care of yourself. Yeah. So, 

[01:14:40] Toby Roney: well, and I know a lot of people talk about it, but I don't see why a few more conversations can't. Mm-hmm. It can't hurt anyone and we need to keep talking about it.

[01:14:47] Toby Roney: Yeah. And some people I think, will get bored of the conversation, but, um, maybe they're just the ones who aren't doing the work to try and improve themselves in that way. And, I don't know, do try out counseling or try out journaling or kind of those kind of self-help things. [01:15:00]

[01:15:00] Yeah. 

[01:15:00] Chris Watson: Don't, don't, don't feel shy or, or scared to do it because you shouldn't care what other people think.

[01:15:05] Chris Watson: Really, it's, you, you we're, we're only here a short time, so, so look after yourself and others give it a go. 

[01:15:10] Toby Roney: Well, yeah, I, I've really enjoyed that. Thank you, 

[01:15:12] Chris Watson: Toby. That's been. Excellent. I've thoroughly, thoroughly enjoyed the conversation. There's so many things that we've unpacked and we've kinda went and twisted and twisted and turned throughout the creative side, the, the mind, the health and wellbeing to, to, to an extent as well.

[01:15:27] Chris Watson: So I, I hope people get a lot from it. 'cause I've, I thoroughly enjoyed it and I really thank you for, for spending time with us today. 

[01:15:35] Toby Roney: No, thank you for having me. I really enjoyed the conversation. Yeah. And um, yeah, 

[01:15:38] Chris Watson: yeah, 

[01:15:39] Toby Roney: hopefully it inspires some people or like people, if anyone has any questions, like I'd love to chat.

[01:15:43] Chris Watson: Yeah. And where can people find out more about Toby, Ronnie and all your projects and all the good stuff that you're up to? 

[01:15:51] Toby Roney: So I would just say Instagram. Instagram and my website. They're the main two kind of places. It's just my name to. Um, and um, yeah, it's got all my stuff on there. [01:16:00] Videos, photos, behind the scenes, uh, a few more stories.

[01:16:03] Chris Watson: Yeah. Excellent. Thanks to, we'll get all that listed and with that I'll bring it to a close. Thank you. 

[01:16:10] Announcer: Thanks for tuning in to today's episode. For the show notes and further information, please visit adventure diaries.com/podcast. And finally, we hope to have inspired you to take action and plan your next adventure, big or small, because sometimes we all need a little adventure to cleanse that bitter taste of life from the soul.

[01:16:32] Announcer: Until next time, have fun and keep paying it forward.