For more information on names or materials referenced, or to contact Ishe- please email. iabel.hhc@gmail.com
For more information on names or materials referenced, or to contact Ishe- please email. iabel.hhc@gmail.com
Welcome again to the horse human connection. This is, is she able, I wanted to do another monologue episode. To clarify a lot of things.
MacBook Air Microphone-3:One of the things I want to clarify is what I mean by the quiet revolution. What I mean by the quiet revolution is the point at which the information from the equine assisted practices world. Spills over into the traditional world of horse training. And the traditional world of horse training becomes way better informed. And that is really my goal.
Samson Q2U Microphone:So I like to use EAP, which is equine assisted practices and that covers everything. In my mind anyway. So in, in the way I think about it, there are two worlds. There's the world of trainers. Who try to make courses, do things. For writers. There's the English world, which hunter jumper dressage, classical French dressage. There's the cowboy world, old school and new school with natural horsemanship, probably being the most popular. But I question even the methods now in natural horsemanship. I think a lot of the clinicians have a gift. Very advanced gifts that they themselves don't really understand that they're trying to teach. And there lies a lot of the problem. What I've come to learn from. The EPA world, the equine assisted practices world is that if we slow down and spend time with horses, just being, not asking, not with an agenda, not trying to ride them. That. We're able to see their true nature. And they're not that different than humans in that respect. I mean, how are you really going to get to know somebody if you're making them do something all the time. And I definitely like the slave analogy applied to horses because. That's how they're treated. They're not given a choice. thEy're dominated. They're taught and trained an over-trained. Ah, so another pet peeve, like asking a horse to do severe repetitions of something until they are board Steph, when they probably understood after the second or third try. That's a horrible practice. I put myself in that position and can't help it. I know how irritated. I would be how dumbed down. Or possibly aggressive. I would get, if somebody did that to me. But again, I'm a human, not a horse. And as this book that I love. Horse brain human brain points out all of our differences. And how we come together quite eloquently. So the pathways. Two. Horse. To being with horses who have the largest limbic system of any land mammals who have an ability for empathy past what many humans do or show. Brings us to a place where I have to continue to question this dominance. And I don't question it in terms of. Is it effective? Certainly it's effective. But is it the best way? And when I see trainers like Sean Cook out of outside of Denver, Colorado, who really understands horses or my own trainer, Chris is Schmidt who really understands horses or people like Kimberly Dunn, who also really understand horses and break down. The neuroscience, even if they don't know or before they know what the actual neuroscience and all of the chemicals, the dopamine oxytocin, the endorphins. The cortisol, the adrenaline, and how each of these play, when you're training a horse. People that are really good at training horses. Intuitively. I recognize these states and when to back off. And when to wait. And when the horse is optimized for learning. The neuroscience breaks it down and explains it. But the neuroscience feels complicated. Sounds complicated to the lay person. There's a lot of vocabulary there. And I actually think there are a lot of people like Mani Roberts and Tom Dorrance. And. Some of the predecessors of natural horsemanship, perhaps even pat Parelli. Who. Somehow instinctually know these things, but if you don't know what, you know, you can't adequately teach it. And there lies the problem. How. I saw this woman at our local fairgrounds. I took my little granddaughter yesterday. To look at the horses. She rides a horse here. She's three. And rides is kind of an overstatement. She sits on the back and she's beginning to learn what some of the aides and connections feel like. But anyways, I took her to the fairgrounds. And there was one woman at the fairgrounds on a horse, I watched this woman. Walk around barrels, trot around barrels back the horse up. Who switched its tail side paths, the horse who swished its tail. And eventually she came close and I said, oh, I hope you don't mind us watching. And she said no, no, not at all. And I said, so it's a pretty young horse you have there. And she said, well, He is, he is on the younger side. He'd be much further along if he were my horse, but I'm writing him for a client. And I said, well, what do you make of all that tail swishing? And she didn't have had anything to say about it. And as she stood there with the horse seated on the horse, the horse pulling. It's mouth asking for more rain, obviously asking for more rain and she kept correcting and releasing. And he'd pull and she'd correct. I mean, Pull the reins tighter and then release them only a little bit though. There's still not enough of a loop in the rain. That you would see on a standard Western. Horse moving forward or even at rest. So she began to explain the basics of horsemanship to me, of course, assuming that I was just there and didn't own my own horses or didn't know anything about horse training. And she kept talking about the release. They're seeking the release, they're seeking the release. Well, okay. Yeah, I know that. So finally I said to her, it looks to me like he's asking a question. He's asking, could I please have a little bit more rain? So she sort of looked down at the horse and she loosened the rain and he started to itch his knee with his mouth. And at that point, I could see. Her going up, her becoming angry, her voice changing. And she said, well, he just can't put his nose on the ground, but he can itch. If that's all he wants to do. And I thought to myself, Here you are riding horses for other people. Thinking that you know, at all, because you understand what releases. But you're completely dominating this animal for no reason. And that is a perfect example. Of what so many horse trainers do. Don't let the horse take advantage of you. Make sure, you know, the horse knows who's boss. That horse is being disrespectful. He put his butt towards you. Like all of these interpretations that we make from the animal that are actually, if you read the neuroscience on what horses can think and do think they're incapable of. Things that we attribute like, like disrespect. And if we can ask instead, what is the horse asking? I believe in horse training. That whenever a horse is having those interactions. That horse is asking a question. Can I do this? Can I do that? Is this what we're doing here? Is that what you really meant? Oh, if we were able to view the horse communication as these questions. We would be so much further along and.
MacBook Air Microphone-2:So people might wonder exactly where I stand on dominance and training and keeping horses. And it's a fair question. And sometimes there's a question I continue to ask myself. At this point, we have evolved to a place that I really like in that. Rather than dominance, we will use what I call benevolent leadership. In the areas of safety. Travel. And health. Which means if I need. An overweight horse to get some exercise. I am going to exercise a role of benevolent leader, like a horse would in a herd. If there is a safety issue. And I need to exercise benevolent leadership, then I will do so if the horse needs to go to the vet and get in the trailer, we are going to try our best to use benevolent leadership and not dominance, but sometimes that line between benevolent leadership and some dominance. Waivers a little bit because we're not in a perfect world. And I feel good about keeping the horses that I have because two of them were rescued and one of them is retired. And I know that they all want to be here with me. I know that there are way, way worse places that does horses could be. Oh, That answers that question.
Samson Q2U Microphone:Any time that we're with horses. I want people to be aware that there are two cultures. Two species cultures. There's the horse culture, which has some deviations like wild horses. And there's the human culture. Which also has deviations, people coming to be with horses and learn from horses and learn with horses or people coming to dominate horses. And if we're not aware of what those cultures entail, what their social hierarchies are, what the expectations are, what the body language is that goes with them. We're really not able to come together. The horse human connection. Doesn't happen in the most favorable way.
MacBook Air Microphone:Not only does it not happen in the most favorable way? But. The conspicuous absence of the question. Will they let us ride if they have a choice. Is important to. And I'm not the original person to ask that question. Also, Sinclair is she was a pearly student. Who really wanted the answer to that question? She has a wonderful documentary out called taming wild. Where she does ask that question and she does get to ride and it's a lovely story. With a scene of her and this mayor riding bareback and bridal us on the beach with the mayors full at the very end. It's definitely worth a watch. And she had a program some years ago. I don't know if she's still teaching or not, but I, I took part of her program. And learn some of her technique. And I think it's very effective. It's mostly centered on breath work. One day. She said something to me as I was asking her questions. As, as I do, when I, when I'm a student, I asked a lot of questions. And what she said to me is I said, well, isn't that manipulation? And she said, well, yes, it is. I mean, she uses no tools, no round pen, no halter, no treats, nothing. To train this horse or to achieve a beautiful bareback ride. Uh, rides. And so my question was like, well, how are you doing this? And, and it is a manipulation. She, she said, but then she said something to me that I chewed on for at least three years. Uh, possibly because I'm on the spectrum. Uh, that I didn't understand that maybe I hadn't had these experiences maybe because of the way I was raised, but. Where I grew up with the people that raised me, manipulation was a terrible, bad thing that we didn't want to do to each other. And she said to me, I want my friends to manipulate me if that's what it takes to get me to go to the beach and have a lovely time with them and spend the day. And they manipulated me to do it, then that's okay. And forgive me if I've misquoted you or if I misunderstood you, but that was my takeaway. And I really, like I say, I spent years trying to wrap my brain around this and the reason I'm bringing it up now. It's not just about the question of, would they let us ride if we could, but what are it's, it's more of the bigger question. What are we doing with horses? Like. They're not transportation. For the most part. Um, We don't need to do this gaming, this recreation, this competition's on them. We don't need them to hunt foxes. Why do we keep horses? So if I look back over the history of man and horses and. And fanciful, some of that may be. They're here to help. They've always been here to help. They helped us in the beginning. Hunt. They helped us carry things. They hoped Expedia our travel. And then they helped us in battles, which is something I could never understand. Like how could you get a horse who hates the smell of blood? Who becomes terrified when something is killed to go into battle? You know, and the answer to that is relationship training. When you really break down and start to study. The type of training that battle horses went through is nothing. Nothing. Like what Cowboys did. Anyway. Uh, is built on, on mutual trust and relationship. And. And valuing them. So those questions become important too. I told you that this podcast was about looking for answers. So you know, other people that might have answers or might have different opinions. I welcome you to contact me. I would love to hear what you think. And open up discussions.
MacBook Air Microphone-1:What have the other questions? That comes up for me. Around, why are we keeping horses? Is what would happen if we didn't. But what if humans were allowed to have horses, where would they all be? Would they all be Farrow? People who, who work with wild horses and people that are educated about horses. Like to say. That there are no actual wild horses. In fact they're feral they have. Collective generational memory of being domesticated. There's not a wild horse out there in America today that doesn't have ancestors that were domesticated. So they are technically feral, not wild. Well, there are fight flight freeze responses are much more heightened. Dan horses that are kept by humans or around humans. So if we didn't keep horses, Would they all be wild? Well, wild horses. Don't have it really good. Not really. And chased around by helicopters killed because their competition for cattle feeding on least government land. It's not a really pretty picture. Well, some of my questions too, are could wild horses. Help people. With mental health issues with anxiety, with PTSD, with all kinds of other things. And that might seem like a wild question. To people, especially that don't have horses are not familiar with equine assisted practices. I might be way out there in left field, but animal communicators might not think that's such a crazy question. And. I think at the basis of, is it fair to keep them installs? Is it fair to keep them. On smaller pieces of land and how are they treated? How are Aquinas assisted horses treated cross the board also like. Not all practices are the best. Not all. Barns are the safest. Not all horses are happy. Uh, I don't know that it's our job to make them happy. I was called out recently on, on some of my word use. I used the word use. I used my horse in a session. And I did. So when I was called out on this, you know, by someone who said, I don't want to use horses, I just want to be with horses. And yet. And I don't know, in what capacity or what the living situation for the horses looks like. This is a person that keeps horses. So. I have questions about that too. Like just philosophical questions. At what stage is that? Okay. You know, and so. My go-to is to call an animal communicator. To check in with more clarity than I can get from my horses or at least from another source, because maybe what I was getting was clear about how happy my horses are and how willing they are. And. They do seem very willing to do the work that we do, which is not a lot of work. Um, we do a little training. We do a little riding with permission. And they seem to really enjoy interacting with humans while I teach humans. About these things that I think about horses. And they seem on board with that and the animal communicator echoed that. So, I don't know. Sometimes you gotta take these things with a grain of salt. And yet they seem very, very real. But they're questions that I wish everybody would think about. And asking, is your horse happy? I think some horses are very happy in their jobs. I went to do a certified horsemanship of America. Uh, teacher training some years ago. And I got an opportunity to ride a horse who taught me some stuff and she was, oh, she was such a lovely being. And she made it really clear to me that she loved her job. It hurt her body a little bit. She was an older horse, but she was willing, she was so willing to carry a mere round, to carry other people around because she was able to help those connections. So, yeah, I do think that there are a lot of horses in captivity that are very happy. I think there's even some horses installs that have been moved around to so many different places that don't have a long lasting herd that when they get thrown out in the pasture they're picked on and they might feel safer in a stall, at least some of the time. I'm not here to judge all that, but I am here to keep asking these questions.
Samson Q2U Microphone:I dominic Barbara and Dr. Katz Manis have a book called. the alchemy of lightness Lightness, the something of lightness I'll have to look it up. But they talk about horses reading your mind. They talk about the front of your brain in the back of your brain and keeping things in the forefront as pictures that you want the horse to see. And. Temple Grandin talks about. Horses and cattle thinking in pictures in their heads and autistic people. Thinking more in pictures in their heads. So at age 60. I have recently been diagnosed as being on the autism spectrum. Which it's probably pretty mild. At least I'm thinking it's pretty mild. But it's enough that. I believe there's a connection between autism and thinking in pictures and mental telepathy. And animals that hasn't been studied adequately yet. Talking to animal communicators, who can. Understand animals from far away, whether it be with pictures in their heads or emotions, or occasionally a word or sometimes language, they get messages, all different kinds of ways. And I know this to be true. And I know that my horses talk to each other in pictures, in their heads. So many times while on the larger ranch, I would be riding my horse. Sipsy trying to get a point across to her. Trying to communicate with her desperately. And not being able. To get her to understand what I was asking for. And my other horse Firefly would come over touch noses with subsea and suddenly Sipsy understood what I wanted. Was Firefly talking to her. I think so. I think she's giving her pictures. I think she's giving her information. Firefly is a very well-trained. Horse. And very good at communicating. Both in pantomime. I mean, she will actually act things out for me. In metaphor. But you think a horse that steps on your toes doesn't know what it's doing. My horses step on toes when they're getting the message across. Are you stepping on somebody's toes or is somebody infringing on your rights? They use metaphor regularly. In equine assisted learning sessions. And we do, we do something. That's rather youngian and gestalt in horseplay, where there are. There is a container of toys and things that can be symbolic, like a helmet, a chain, a flashlight, a baby doll. A butterfly wings, you know, from the kid's toy department. Microphone, a pair of scissors. Plastic dagger. All kinds of things that people attribute symbols to. And the horses will interact with the symbols as if they understand them. I don't know if they understand the energy from them. I don't know if they understand the emotions. That they evoke in people and they read the emotion, which I think is very likely given the size of their limbic systems. And given their just sort of innate ability to know and connect. I don't know if this is possible for everybody. I think it is. I don't know if having someone there who's mildly autistic or mildly. Um, Clairvoyant. Is key. But those are some of the questions that I have to the magic that I've witnessed. And I'm hoping that by interviewing horse trainers, animal communicators. People have had similar experiences. People who haven't had similar experiences. That some of these questions get answered. Or. At least the discussions that might answer them or. Or bring some conclusions. Happen. I want to correct ignorance. I want people that train horses to stop and question what they're doing. Things that we're taught all the time. Like, oh, don't walk behind a horse. It's dangerous. You might surprise them. Well, yeah, if you have a really wild horse or one that's really amped up on adrenaline and cortisol, you might be able to sneak up on one. But what most people don't realize is except for directly in front of them and directly behind them, horses have pretty much a 360 degree view. Try to sneak up on a domestic horse. You probably can't. So the fact that you might startle them by walking behind them or that a domestic horse would be inadvertently so aggressive as to kick you, if you did surprise them. To me as ridiculous. What I see. When I bring people in with the horses to be with the horses, to interact with the horses, to do this gestalt type of play with them. Is that a horse backing up to you can mean they feel protective of you. Like they do with their young. I could mean, could you please scratch my butt? It really itches. Or could mean, I want to see what you do. As I backed up. If we don't all question, our belief systems question, the thoughts in our heads. All the time. We're not awake. We're not aware. And we're indoctrinated into some program that our culture and society has laid over on us. And in these times, That is more important now than ever. Because as we have no collective truth, as we have very little reliable information anymore. We're going to need to switch to our intuition. We're going to need to switch to critical thinking, which has stopped being taught in schools. We're going to need another way to find our way. Because simply looking stuff up on the internet of opinions and simply having things, thoughts arise in our heads that come from traditions that may be inaccurate. It's not going to serve us anymore. Anyway, that is a lot of what I'm trying to accomplish with this podcast. Bringing awareness, asking questions. And I'm finding that the phrase, the tipping point is getting really overused. But that's what I call it. When so many people are now. Educated in equine assisted practices. So many people have experienced to slowing down and being welcomed into the horse culture. Which is a different time, like. I don't mean time, like in the past. I mean. It's like time slows down, time stands still. We become present. We stop thinking about the past and the future. We just become present. It's a thing that. I don't know some of the. Th the major wisdom influences that I consider in our age, like Deepak Chopra and Eckhart. Totally. Try to teach that be, if we're present, the answers will come. If we're present, our intuition will deepen. And that's what I get from being with the horses. I want to offer that to people. I'm not quite sure how to offer that. And keep my own serenity. Keep my own peace. Keep the outside world at bay. But I have a campground. I have a place I have a year. That a visitor or two at a time can stay in. And it's not just the horses and the goats and the chickens that help slow everything down. It's the river. It's the forest behind me. It's the fruit trees. And it's me as a guide. Reminding people to just be present. That's what I want to offer. When I talk about the horse human connection being. An idea. I think you're getting the idea and I talk about it being a place. It is a physical place. It's my farm. And it's my home. And I'm particular about who I will let come here, but I will let people come here. And it's also this podcast. Which is a voice, not just my voice. But the voice of, of many. Who will hopefully be able to answer some of these questions.