How much do Horses really UNDERRSTAND?

Horses are said to have the intelligence of 3 or 4 year old humans.  Do you think it's true?  Don't decide until you hear more stories.  Want to deepen your relationship with your horse? Keep listening and continue to go slow.

For more information on names or materials referenced, or to contact Ishe- please email. iabel.hhc@gmail.com

Transcript

0:01

This is the Horse Human Connection, a captivating podcast where we extend into the world of equine assisted learning, horse training. and gentleness in working with these magnificent creatures. Captivating stories from the leading professionals and ordinary people alike unravel novel ideas in being with horses. The Horse Human Connection is an idea, a place, and a voice. The idea is to support the quiet revolution and recognize the intelligence and true nature of the horse. The place is a destination farm near the Umpqua Forest and River that slows down visitors and patrons enough to experience the shift. The Voice is this podcast. Welcome to today's episode.

MacBook Air Microphone: 0:53

This is, is she back with episode eight of the horse human connection matrix podcast. Oh, I'm so grateful that people are listening. We have 78 downloads, I believe in less than 30 days. So I'm very hopeful that people are opening their minds to the quiet revolution. And how your relationship with your horse can be really different. Today. I am going to talk a little bit more about some stories from my herd. And some experiences with equine assisted practices. Which is like equine therapy, but I am not a therapist. So we talk about experiential learning where the horses help out. And that can take. Several different forms. Anyway, some of the stories today will cross into that modality. And I just want to recap something that Kimberly said in one of the last interviews about if we are opening up your mind and peaking an interest in what we're doing. There are avenues to explore more contacting myself or Kimberly is one of those ways. Directly. So some of you who know my herd have gotten back to me and said, oh, it was so sweet to hear those stories about Firefly or Sipsy again. And I haven't seen them in a while. And my horses have friends, you know, like your kids have friends. And there were definitely times at the larger ranch where I think people may come more to see the horses, their, their friends, the horses than than me per se. But that's all okay. And I've always encouraged my horses to have their own relationships. As long as you know, nobody's getting hurt. That's a that's okay with me. So there was one day. On a co-created ride. I was on Sipsy and PI and Firefly. And as we road. Through part of the ranch that had a scrub Oak forest. I found that she would take me really close to the trees. And. On a couple occasions. I pushed into the tree to push us away because it was almost like my foot was going to touch these scrub Oaks. And the scrub Oaks are not more than like six to eight inches in circumference. And every time I did this, the tree fell. It was a dead tree. I didn't realize that these were standing dead trees and Sipsy was purposely taking me right next to the tree where my inclination was to push on it so that my foot didn't get caught or stuck or run into it. And every time that as I pushed on it with my hand, the tree would fall over. And I know she wasn't surprised because she didn't start all at all when the tree fell. After a while I began to think. You know, there there's something to this. She's telling me something. And we were expecting company. We were expecting a young couple to come to the ranch. And. There were some things happening in this young couples lives that were very tumultuous and. It would have been my inclination. As an older person to give. To give some advice and some warnings. Regarding what was going on in these young people's lives. So that was part of the reason they were coming to kind of decompress and talk about things and spend some time with the horses that might help them. And I realized that what Sipsy was telling me in metaphor. Was that. These kids, these young adults. We're far more fragile than I realized. And that's what the dead trees were. I'm getting goosebumps, just telling the story again. That somehow. I believe most horses have a sixth sense about things. And when they're cued in and. Asked for their way in and asked to participate in. And healing and assisting and being there for people. That they really do show up in, in ways that are psychic and. And I really believe that she knew. And that she was telling me go easy. These people are fragile. Be careful you don't push on them. And that is my tendency. It's a push to push in a little bit. For growth and, you know, as I've gotten older, I've learned to reel that back. That sometimes that can be what people need, but it isn't always. I have another fond memory., I was at the ranch one summer and took over for the yoga teacher at the Y YMCA. I was a certified yoga instructor. And in taking over this class, I, you met some people. It was a very large class and. I would tell people as is true in yoga sometimes. Going through the poses. We'll bring emotional things to the surface for people. And for them to just allow that, like that's part of the process and part of the practice of yoga. So one day after class, there was a young woman who'd been in the back and I noticed that she lagged behind everyone else. And as I kind of approached her to see if she was all right, and what was going on. I could see that she was crying and she'd had one of these experiences. So we chatted for a few minutes and. I spontaneously asked her if she wanted to complain in the mud, because at the time I was also building a cob house, which has sand, clay and straw. And it peaked her right out of her. Whatever she was experiencing with the emotion and and she was happy to do that. So she ended up coming up to the ranch. And when she got there, you know, we talked a little bit about whatever the emotional thing had been with her. And then we went up to the cop, which was surrounded by a fence that had a big gate. And. We proceeded to go in there and I proceeded to show her how to make cob and, and we were having fun playing in the mud and we were laughing and giggling and. As we went, as we went down to the cabin for a break. I don't know, maybe it was some lunch or snack. I don't quite remember. But the horse was down there she was looking over her fence enclosure and seemed quite curious about this young woman. So. I put a halter on her and introduced her and Firefly, led us up the hill back to where the cop was. And she pushed the gate with her nose as if she was saying open the skate. I want to go in there. So I took her in. And. She went over and smelled around where we had been laughing and giggling and what we'd been doing and looked at me and looked at the woman and looked at the house. And. My interpretation of all that was that. My lovely horse wanted to understand what had changed with the mood. You know, horses read. They read our intention. They read our emotion, they read our breath and our heart rate. At 60 feet away. Or more. You know, they, they can do this because that's how they've survived in the wild as being prey, animals. And so. I have no problem believing that Firefly knew the mood. New the mood had changed. And was curious and asking about the curiosity of what changed at what were we doing? After being up there for a little while, she seemed satisfied. She ate some grass and we let her out and close the gate. But what she did was purposeful and unusual. And I have this kind of relationship with firefight because I've been open to it from the beginning. Because it was the intention that, that's what I wanted. I wanted that kind of a relationship with a horse from the beginning. Sometimes people doubt horses, intelligence. Or their interactions or what the relationship can be. And I'm not saying every horse is like Firefly. I mean, she's clearly an unusual horse. But I also have had relationships, you know, with PI and Maddie and subsea. And now with Charlie. That are unusual to. I just feel so blessed to be able to interact with these lovely creatures this way. And that's the whole reason for the podcast, right? Is. To let people know that there's more. There is more available. So another time going even further back in time when I first got Firefly. And Kimberly was coming out to the ranch when we had the mountain trail and obstacle course out there. And at one point Oh, you know, maybe it was after I left the ranch the first time it was boarding in Eugene, I think it was. And I went with Kimberly. And another of her students who is buying a horse. I fell pony to amount trail and obstacle competition, somewhere up near a filament. I don't remember exactly where. But at this facility, it was about 20 or 30 acres and they had like a trail course, and then they had like an obstacle course. And they had neighbors and the next door neighbors had a bloomin camel, like. Yeah, a camel. And. The young horse that this other woman that was with us had just purchased, you know, she and the horse were getting acquainted. That was kind of the, one of the purposes of this excursion was for this horse that she just bought. This was like her second lesson after she'd purchased the horse to get acquainted. And firefight being a much older horse at the time. Ah, she was like 20. Kept getting in between. This camel in the next door neighbor's yard and the young horse. And like I said, I wasn't very experienced back in the beginning. And, you know, from a traditional standpoint, I was making mistakes and letting the horse decide where we were going. when I look back at that, I don't think it was a mistake at all. I think it's my natural inclination that helped. Lead me down the path that I wanted to go down, which was allowing Ms. Horse to. Have a say in things. And she was having to say, and I wasn't objecting. Like, okay, you want to go over here? We'll let's see what's over here. And I was amused and I started calling my horse codependent because she wasn't going to let this other young horse and its new writer. Risk having some kind of a fallout from the horse being frightened, not knowing what the camel was and you know, that's a new smell and a new creature for a horse. To come across and for a new writer to be able to, to ground them both out and to. Help regulate the both and two. Reassure the horse that the camel isn't going to eat them. And. When I look back at what Firefly did that day, I. You know, it all feeds in doesn't it like every experience that I've had that seems special, magical, unusual. With that horse. And you could easily say like, oh, that's just my interpretation of what happened. And somebody else could interpret the same events in a very different way. And I'm cognizant of that. Yeah, this is definitely my unique perspective. And I do still wonder, and I would love to interview some autistic people that have experiences with animals. About this, because I do think that P thinking in pictures and being neurodivergent has something to do with the way I've approached this. During therapy sessions the horses have done some interesting things to, I I want to be sure to keep confidentiality and kind of mix it up a little bit here, but. It's worthwhile enough to say, in fact, I was talking to a potential guest about, about this particular incident. And I was saying, who's going to believe that. And her response was, well, anybody that's done at queen therapy would surely. Believe that because it happens all the time. But this kind of thing, doesn't happen to people. I don't think it does anyways. If you're out there and it's happened to you, please. Come on the show, be a guest and tell me your stories. But I don't think it's so common with barrel racers and team Penners and rodeo folk. But they end up having these relationships or these experiences because their relationships are so different and mostly not all the time, but mostly dominant spaced. So in the therapy world. In the equine assisted practices world, I should say. sOmetimes I use props. With people and they are symbolic. I got a bunch of toys at the dollar store and I have things like an army helmet and a plastic dagger and a chain and knives and baby dolls and butterfly wings and glue and scissors that are still in a package. And. A feather bow, like all kinds of things that can be representative of other things. And we work with goals and obstacles. So. My methodology is to generally ask people to take either the bamboo or the cherry tone timbers. And to create a shape. In the area where we're working. And then I asked them to tell me what the shape is. I asked them to think about their goals and obstacles and to pick toys from the box that represent their goals and the obstacles to those schools. And then we. Depending on the level of comfort with the horse either we'll put a halter and lead rope on and ask the horse to, to come about and I'll ask him to lead the horse and tell the horse their story. or What's going on with the shapes that they've created. It's really very gestalt or young in a design. It applies to the subconscious mind. And the symbols and metaphors play out in this way. I've seen the horses interact in some pretty amazing ways with the objects, which brings up the question, like, do they understand symbolism? I think they do. Are, is there energy attached as we're thinking about it, are they reading our emotional connection to the objects or our thoughts or pictures? In connection with the objects and I don't for sure have the answers to these, but I'll just tell you what I see, what I have witnessed. So at one point I was working with people and there was an object from the box. It was a perfect representation of something in one of the persons lives. And. I was working with two people and they each made a box and the object was in one box. And as we were talking with the horse, the horse picked up the object in its mouth and moved it to the other box. And by box, what I mean is. The cherry tone timbers that are eight foot long. Laid on the ground in the shape of a square. That's what the shape was this particular day. And then we talked some more with the horse there and we switched people and the other person talked quite a bit. And ended up picking up. The toy and putting it back in box one. Well about the time that happened here comes Firefly from across the pasture. I mean, I'm not a real far away, but like maybe 120 feet away. In a very direct, purposeful, fast walk. Direct line to the object. Picked that object up out of the box and moved it back into the first box. She was clearly making a statement that this thing was about. The person that belonged had constructed that box, not the other one. And he, the session didn't end up. Necessarily going anywhere, but the intent of the horses was very, very clear. And again, I'm coming at this from a place of how smart our horses. Do they deserve to be treated? Differently than simply dominating them. Can they interact with us? In ways that are more beneficial to both humans and horses. The horse human connection matrix for the benefit of both. That's why I'm doing this for the benefit of horses and for humans. I've witnessed in my heard. And I'm so happy to hear that more and more trainers as they train new trainers are sending them out. To just be with horses and observe herd behavior. And it's not like feral wild herd behavior, it's domestic herd behavior, but it's still herd behavior. And I'm really glad that that's becoming more and more of an accepted practice. I think the intention and most of it. Is for leadership and dominance and Kimberly and I touched on that. That place of like so many other things happen between horse, horse relationships and in her dynamics. That we're not paying attention to because so many people are focused only on dominance. That they're missing a lot. So one of the things that I witnessed in my herd. Was the assignment of jobs. And. When PI Sipsy and Firefly, we're all together. PI's job given to him by Sipsy. Was. To be the protector and the alert. And he would. Sometimes, you know, roam off from them and, and have a look around if there was anything out there, he was, you know, high alert for that. Most of the time. And if something needed chasing off. Whether it was snorting at elk passing through or deer. Or one time I even saw him lower his head and aggressively chase a Bobcat up the hill, a very big Bobcat. That was his job and Firefly's job since she's no longer been a lead horse, although she did lead. Many different herds as we traveled and, and boarded at different barns. And she's been in a lot of places. But as she. Needed to acquiesce. And I watched her do this. Like I watched her give up. Control of a herd and how gracefully she did it. And I know that it wasn't necessarily that easy. But she acquiesced well. But she got a job and her job. I used to say she's like Lieutenant O'Hara and if anybody is old enough to remember the original star Trek Lieutenant O'Hara was communications and she was always on her little pre Bluetooth, Bluetooth. Trying to hail different frequency isn't and that's that's Firefly. Whenever there's been. Confusion about what humans are trying to tell you. Tell you, I mean, the other horses. She will come over and clarify, go over touch noses with them. And I really believe that when they're touching noses, That they are transferring pictures. More acutely. That it gets, it gets sharper. It gets more detailed when they come in and get close together. I've been lots of times I was writing Sipsy in. I may have even mentioned this in one of the other stories. I would be working with something on Sipsy. With the other horses are just free, you know, on the 200 acres where they can come up or not come up and I could see Firefly paying attention, flicking and ear kind of looking over from time to time and giving us the time and space to figure it out. And occasionally I would say, okay, I just can't do this firefight. Can I get some help here? And she would come over, they would touch noses and then Sipsy would understand. What I'm asking her while I'm on her back. And that didn't happen once or twice. Happened a lot. So. Again, the things that are possible, the different ways that horses learn. The neuroscience that we now all have access to. Regarding what's really going on in the horse brain human brain. Is so worth a deeper look. Thank you for listening. And again, I am looking for folks to interview, so don't be afraid to contact me. There's a Facebook page, the horse human connection. There is The email in the notes for the podcast, you can reach me that way at I able dot HHC. At gmail.com. Enjoy your day.