This interview with Sarah Linthacum captures the passion she has for her ancestry and a very special breed of horse, the Choctaw Pony. Listen in to a rich

https://youtu.be/b4yna-2jwAg.  Listen in to a rich conversation about family, traditions, philophosies, and moving forward in the modern age.  There is much wisdom to be gained by meeting this dedicated horsewoman.  She is x- military, barrel racer, mother, and farmer.  

Sarah has a beautiful grulla stud  Choctaw Pony and can be reached at Sarahusaf1999@yahoo.com

Transcript

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Hi, this is Ishi Abel with the Horse Human Connection Matrix. Today, I have Sarah Lintha come with me. She is a barrel racer, a mother, and a farmer. And we're just going to chat a little bit about horses. Welcome, Sarah. Thank you. Thank you for having me. Yeah, absolutely. So with most people that have horses and have had horses for a long time, you know, there's one or two or sometimes more horses that really stand out in your history that changed things for you or that their story was just like so compelling. Do you have a horse like that in your history? I really think those are kind of honestly the babies that I have now or Miko in particular.. He's a native horse. He's probably the one I'm most passionate about. And the reason is because of what he is. He is a Choctaw horse. He is also known as a Spanish Mustang, but in particular, the. The breed of Spanish Mustang he is, is Choctaw horse. And I am a native American. I'm Choctaw. And I found out that. A few years ago that my, my tribe not only were horsemen, because I already knew that, but they actually bred specific traits of Spanish mustangs to breed their own horses. And I found out they were still in existence. By very slim, almost, almost extinct and that there was luckily a few breeders still that had them. And I found one down in Oklahoma and I immediately made contact with them and It was like, do you have some? I want, I want one. I have to have one. Initially, I actually, Nico, the one I have here, is not the one I had picked out. I had looked at the ones he had online. I had picked out a, I love color, as everybody does. I picked out a brown and white, pinto color, a Spanish Mustang that was gated. Because I thought, I Gated is awfully nice on the back getting older. I thought oh, yeah, that's what I want I I picked him out from the pictures. I went down on a trip to go look at him and And I I looked at him. He's beautiful Just like I knew he would be from all the pictures but I happen to decide to go and look at the other Colts and Bryant said, well, do you want to go look at the other colts? Sure, sure, I'm going to go look at the other colts. Why would I ever turn down looking at a horse, right? And so I happened to step into the pen with all the other ones, and there were several gorillas, actually, in the pen. But I went over towards them, and he just stood still, and I started scratching him, and just petting him, and he just stayed there, and I started moving around him, petting him everywhere, and I remember Bryant telling me, he said, Whoa, you know, he hasn't really been handled, you know, all of our horses, they don't get handled that much. Be careful, because I was moving down to his legs and around his body, and I know Bryant didn't want me to get hurt or anything, but I moved all around him, I picked up his feet, I did everything with him, and I remember looking at my husband's eyes over the top of Mikko's back, because, you know, he was just, at this point in time, he wasn't even a yearling, yet he was just, Mikko's Six or seven months old and I remember meeting my husband's eyes over the top of Miko's back and my husband going That's the one you should be taking home And I remember just nodding my head and thinking in my head while he's probably right. This is This is the one. And I asked Bryant, I said, I should probably not ask this because I'm probably going to change my mind, but I said, how much do you want for this one? And Bryant told me, he said, well, I, I actually, I only want a thousand for that one and they wanted fifteen hundred for the other one. And I said, although the money wasn't the issue, I had it for either one, but I, I, he's less. And he's more. Right. And he picked you. Yes. You know so I said, Brian, I, I'm going to, I'm going to have to take home a gorilla. So I ended up coming home. All right. We actually didn't bring him home at the time because in Southern Oklahoma, it's kind of like you are right now, nice and green and February and in Northern Missouri, it's kind of like it is right now. It's. Snow and ice covered and I didn't want to shock his system and bring him home at that point in time. So I left him down there until spring came. I didn't move him back up here until May because he was already shutting out. At that point in time, and I want to bring him back into the ice in that situation, even getting him. It would have been hard on his system as young as he was to bring him to this cold environment. So I left him down there until May and. We had turned to nice spring at that point in time, brought him home. And so how, how, that was last year. Mika will be three. So that's two years ago now, two years ago. Okay. And so what's, how has he impacted you? What are you doing with him? Is they doing much training or just kind of hanging out? And so Mika has been in consistent training. Ever since he's come home, we we constantly I work with my horses every day because they're in my backyard. Literally, if I took the phone over to the window, you could see my horses from my office window. This is my office that I work in every day. And I love the fact that I can just stick my head out the window and see my boys. They're all in my backyard right there. So every Every time I walk out, my boys are right there. And how many, how many do you currently have? Right now, I have seven, seven, six geldings and one stud, Miko being my stud horse in my backyard. And then I have one one filly who's over at my friend's house and she's working with her. And I did that because my friend. She really likes working with horses and she needed something to to occupy her time and give her something to work on as well. So she's over at my friend's helping her because I believe that we help them and they help us. Absolutely. What, what are your plans for this horse? So Miko, it is evolved. I did not know that I was going to leave him to be a stud. But I, I've kind of gone off of Miko's personality. I, he, I never really had a stud. But he's been, I've been able to leave him. He's got the personality that I feel like he can handle it and I can handle him being a stud and since the numbers are so low and he is so gorgeous, he is a kind of a golden a golden grula. He's got the overlay, so he's got the dark main with a blonde overlay, his. His dad was a black, full black, and his mom was a Palomino, and he's just gorgeous. He's absolutely beautiful and he's come together very nicely. He's a small horse, but all of them Spanish Mustangs, period, are small and, and the Choctaw, and they were bred to be that way. It's easier to jump on and, and they're very hardy. Horses, but numbers are low. I'd really like to continue to populate those numbers and continue to give the world some more Choctaw horses. And with his temperament being what it is. I'm happy to continue letting him be a stud horse and so, and he also shows a lot of aptitude for athleticism. He loves to chase the other horses, move them around. He'll even bite the calf on the butt and move him around. So I will probably, as I continue to train him, I'll train him to do some cattle work. And do you think he's gated? He's not. He's not gated. No, but he is smooth. So when you have, when you have like a a Spanish Mustang or a horse with Spanish Mustang blood and they are gated, is that like, what do they call it? The, somebody. I once heard like the Indian shuffle. Is that a thing? And Indian shuffle is in between a non gated and a, and a completely gated. Okay. And he, he may get. There where he does a little bit more of a of an Indian shuffle right now He's he's not really gated at all, but he's a smoother. I think he'll be a smoother ride. I'm not riding him yet I believe in waiting a little longer. He's only three. He's only three and he's not even quite three yet He'll be three in June So, as of this summer, this spring, this summer is when I'll actually start getting on his back. He's been doing all the groundwork to get to that point so far, but I haven't gotten on his back at this point in time. Cause one, he's still got baby brain. And bones growing. And he's, and he's still growing. He's only about 13, three, maybe barely 14 hands. I don't have a stick, so I can't tell you exactly, but eyeballing him, I'm going to guess he's right there at the 14 hand range at this point in time. So he's, he's still got growing and, and what have you to do? And he's still a little baby brain. So he's, he's still growing up here and. In his physique as well, so. So, how have your attitudes and philosophies about horses evolved over the years of you being, having them in your life? I mean, are you where you started out or do you have some different opinions? I would say I give them a lot more credit the older I get and the, the more horses I know. I, I give them more credit for being separate individuals, just like humans are separate individuals. I, I think that the, the younger that I was, horses are just kind of. I thought that, that all horses were kind of the same and the more that you get to know each individual horse, you know, each individual horse has an individual personality and I think that the, the more that I work with them, like I can tell you the five that I've had here out here for the last few years, I can tell you all the individual quirks and the, the individual things that they're, Their strengths are and that their weaknesses are just like humans. So I think I learned how you train them, how you interact with them, how you relate to them. And I'm also curious, because you've, you've mentioned Choctaw and Native American you and the horse. Is there. Are there Native American training methods, which from what I've read about are often very relationship based that you that you bring in and, and what does that look like? Maybe you can speak to that a little bit. Yeah. And I was also raised by a Choctaw cowboy. My dad was a growing up, he broke and he, he would buy, sell, trade, break. And go on to the next horse. So we constantly had horses coming in and going out and I was raised with him and I was the way that I was raised all creatures. Great and small. It didn't matter if we were talking about ants or we were talking about horses, you know, from the little bitty things. They all had a life and they all had a spirit and they all deserved to be treated well. I remember my dad getting on to me. I had an ant farm. That if you didn't take care of the ant farm, you need to let the ants go. You know, all the way down to that. So I have brought that with me. In everything I have ever done to take care of animals like I, I'm hyper vigilant with how I take care of my animals and it, it just, it wrecks me to see anybody who doesn't take care of them with such great respect and, you know, I'll, I'll take care of them before I take care of me, you know, during the winter, it, it sucks to go out there and fight the snow and ice and what have you, but I, you will find me every day out there feeding and watering and making sure that everybody is taking care of multiple times in the day because there's nobody else but me to take care of them. But you put them where they take care of themselves. So that's your responsibility. Yeah. And I think a lot of people don't get that. That's the way I was trained to not that my parents had had horses when I was young, but the teachers that I've had is like, you, you put that horse in a stall or the pasture, you go feed them before you feed yourself. You take care of the animals first, because. They can't take care of themselves the way you're keeping them. And there were some old school ways that my dad had, you know, wet saddle blankets, and I still believe in some old school ways of teaching and training the horses, but never to be cruel. I never, ever once saw my dad ever be cruel, even though he was an older cowboy. And I don't, I've never believed in being cruel, being firm, you know, and letting the horse sometimes you have to let the horse knows who the boss is. Absolutely. But there's no need to be cruel and there's no need to be harsh. And I think that that's an old, outdated way that some people still believe in, in treating them, but I think there's so much more to learn about working with the animal, and the natives believe that, that they have spirits and they have ways that you can work with them. And instead of working against them and dominating, I guess you will. Right. So it sounds like what you're describing is what I call benevolent leadership. And sure there's, there's definitely times when there needs to be a definite leader, but it's nice for them to have some choices. And if you get to know them really working with their personalities, sounds like a big part of that too, their personality and their spirit. I think trust is the most important thing. With a horse. How do you how do you build trust? The horse looks at you to be the leader and it it looks at you to. Keep them safe at all times. So my job to build the trust is to make sure that they know that they are safe with me, to make sure that they believe that they can follow me through the flames of hell, if you will. And I am right there beside them, you know, I I'm the one feeding them. I'm the one standing beside them. I'll keep the bears away, you know? So I think that's the most important part of trust is. Taking care of them at all times and making sure that you're right there with them and in everything that they do, they can rely upon you. Yeah, that's clearly putting you in not just trust, but leadership. Yeah. What would you like to see change in the horse world? I mean, do you have some pet peeves? If you said you've been a barrel racer, are there industry things that you see that you just go, Oh my gosh, that's just wrong. I wish I could change that. I love to see the quiet writers. I know that. That's not everybody's cup of tea, and some, some riders prefer to be the kind that are really, are really getting after it, but I prefer to see the quieter riders, the ones that the horse knows what they're supposed to be doing. If, if the horse isn't enjoying it, then I don't think that's probably the right thing for them to be doing. If that makes sense, there's another avenue that they would enjoy a little bit more and and I'm not saying that the horse always gets to decide what they they want to do, but they kind of do really consider them more than a lot of them get considered. Yes, yes, I would like to see that happen a little bit more. I'd like to see people listen to the horses more, just because they have the athletic ability to do something doesn't mean that that's necessarily what they were born to do. Yeah, some horses love to compete and some don't. Some love the attention and some don't, you know, as just like, like an observer of barrel racing and it's not like I've I've done a whole lot, but occasionally I'll go down to our local fairgrounds and I'll watch or I've been somewhere where there's been some barrel racing or at the local rodeos. And I've always wondered about this. So a lot of my writing is trail riding, Western pleasure, a little bit of dressage have been, you know, some of what I've been taught and, and I don't have a whole lot of training, but I know, you know, when you're working a horse. In English, you you're looking at in Western you're looking for a band or they call it on the straight that you know when you're weaving that the horse is bending and yet when I watch barrel racers, sometimes it seems like their horses don't bend and I guess there's some aerodynamic is maybe not the right word but bio Biomechanical things about that. But is that something that you've noticed or that you could explain to me a little bit how how some really fast barrel horses never bend when they go around the barrel? They, they don't bend as much as they kind of lay, almost lay over, I guess you'd say. They're kind of almost more sideways as they go around. Leaning. There you go. Yeah, like a motorcycle. Mm hmm. And I don't know why that works, I can't tell you. I don't have a lot of formal training myself and honestly, it seems to me like the shorter horses. Work better to for, I don't, they're lower to the ground. I don't know if it, you would think like the longer legs, they eat more of the arena faster, but I would think the low center of gravity would help. And also shorter horses often have shorter backs, which means that they, they can maneuver more easily. Yeah. Interesting. And I like shorter horses anyway, so it works out well for me. I'm short. I have two pretty short horses right now, and I'm kind of tall, so sometimes I'm like, I don't know how that's going to work, but I, I like them shorter too. The other thing I was going to ask you about what you were talking about, quiet riders, it's always kind of baffled me how on the home run, they're doing all that, that leg flapping and kicking. And I'm thinking, That's got to be slowing you down. Like you're telling the horse to go faster, but isn't there like a subtle aid, like just leaning forward and training the horse that would have a better benefit without all that flapping? So there are studies done that say that the more that you whip, the more that you spur, you actually are slowing them down because their mind is on that versus just running. And I think that's where it comes into The horse enjoying it and if the horse really enjoys the run like my buck This is the reason I got into barrel racing buck loves to run That's honestly the reason why I barrel race him is because he just really enjoys the run Well, if he enjoys it, I'm gonna do it, you know, it's something that I can I can do with him So when I just turn him loose He just goes. And that's the kind of horse I want to barrel race. I don't want to barrel race the horse that I'm going to have to beat on to get him to the other end. I want the horse that I turn loose and he just opens wide up. And that's the kind of horse he is. That's, you know, that's why I barrel race him. I feel like he enjoys, he enjoys it. He, we're still working on the pattern, but when I let him go at the end of that, foosh, he's gone. That's what I like. That's what I like to see too. I did have the pleasure of taking a couple of lessons on a barrel horse here. And she was so well trained the owner and the teacher of the lesson told me, you know, Oh, you don't need to do this or that. Just pull your chin forward a half an inch, pull your chin backward a half an inch. And that's all it took for that horse to drop into a different gate. I love it when the aids can be so subtle and so invisible throughout all writing disciplines. It just seems like the hierarchy to me. And I plan on doing a lot more clinics and going and learning from people because I, I think it's constantly a learning. I want to continue learning and there are people out there that you learn good things from and that you learn bad things from and I think every place you go, you'll learn something from, whether it's something that you don't want to do, or something that you do want to do again. So I think either way, you're going to learn something. Yeah, I think it's, I think it's good. Sometimes it's just sad when people come away with the wrong information or information that doesn't work for their horse and the animal ends up, suffering for it. I do believe that not every horse is for every rider. Right. And I think that's okay. It's not going to work I've had a horse that I, he was gorgeous. I absolutely wanted it to work, but we did not. We did not click. And I, it was one of those where. Did I want to end up hurt or screwing him up, or did I want to let him go to somebody that he would click more with? So I chose to let him go to somebody he would click more with. I think, and I think that's okay. It's absolutely okay. I think that's a big part of just having an intuition about it. And I think horses, maybe they know and maybe somehow. In another realm, they maneuver to get themselves to the right place. I don't know. Well, I think they're smart enough to know sometimes when they have their bluff in too. And, and I'm gonna be the first to admit, you know, there's, there's sometimes when they do get their bluff in. As well, and get their bluff in, they know that they've got you where they want you like they, they know that they've got you a little scared, or they've got you a little mystified on on where to go next. And they're like. I've got this girl, I'm gonna keep her, where she doesn't know what I'm gonna do next, and she's, she's a little off of her game, and she's a little scared, and They get that. They understand that. I like to look at that in terms of they're teaching you something. Yes. On purpose. Exactly. Have you, are there, are there some horses that have taught you great lessons? And does anything like come to mind with that? Well, like that one I'm telling you about, I mean, he taught me a lesson that there are some horses that I can't handle. Yeah. And that's okay. You know, there are some horses that are beyond my scope. And also as we get older, there comes a time when you have to choose what you should be handling and what you shouldn't, especially as mom or dad, or, you know, as your age and bones tell you that, you know, if I was 20, Maybe I'd have kept on, you know, trying, but as a 40 some year old, that was the point where I got my bell rung on the second go round. And I was like, yeah this is probably where we part ways, you know, but he was an amazing horse for somebody else. Right, right. And perhaps in a different discipline too. Right. So what are you doing with horses now? What is, what is like, do you have goals with them? Are you, is farming like the main thing? Farming and parenthood or where, what's your life like right now? So my husband is the main farmer, if you will. I just, I kind of help out. He, Raises corn and soybeans. Sometimes we raise wheat or alfalfa, depending on the year. I run a tractor here and there, do a lot of picking up of equipment or running meals out or whatever. Taxiing around and stuff like that. But I, I came from a foreign background. We raised cattle and whenever I was a kid. So this is the same kind of thing I grew up in. But I also work right now anyway for the federal government. I'm retired military as I told you. But I work from home still at the moment. We'll see how much that, that changes for me in the next few months but my goal with my horses is in time where I can give a few more lessons. I'd like to, I have a special needs daughter myself, she has two horses of her own. I'd like to even be able to have some special needs therapy type. I have a, a master's degree in special ed. I believe that hypnotherapy. Horse therapy. I believe in it wholeheartedly. I'd love to be able to have people who have special needs or even PTSD from military out working with these. I brought home two BLM Mustangs. That are out there right now. It's been too cold to work with Mooney and Coup, but very much. But they're out there right now and I think it would be wonderful to have people out working with BMS and, and working with them. I would love. I would absolutely love to have an arena and have some of those things going on, but if I can keep my jobs and be able to put the money into that and growing, I think I could really make something out of it. And I, I know I'll be able to retire from the, I've already retired from the military and that would be my retirement. My ultimate retirement dream. That's amazing. Are you familiar with Sharice Rudolph's work? I'm not. She's retired now, but she landed. She was fascinating and I was so grateful that I got to take some workshops from her while she was still doing the horse stuff. She started with Outward Bound. And teenagers and ropes courses and then moved into horses and military and landed very specifically with women with PTSD from the military and horse. I don't know if she was a therapist. I don't know if I can call it horse therapy, but equine assisted learning. And she wrote this amazing book It's 28 equine assisted exercise. To do with people and horses and I've worked with the book a little bit after doing her trainings and the things that come out with people are always just amazing and not expected because it's just about the interaction and about the follow up questions and processing and the horses never fail to show up exactly the way they need to. Facilitator training is what it's called Equine Facilitator Training 28 Experiential Learning Exercises by Sharif Rudolph, who now is an artist. I don't think she does horses anymore. I've worked to have the kind of horses that I need. And every year I'm getting, I'm getting something better together, but I keep growing. I am growing. I have, I have a couple of great boys out there that would be wonderful for everybody. And I, every year I get a little bit better. And I have people ask me all the time if I give lessons or if I, they could do therapy. So I know that there's a need here and we're very rural. Absolutely. We're an hour and a half from any given city. Yeah. So it's hard to for people to find places and to be able to take their children and or whoever it is. So there's a lot of grant money, especially with the Veterans Affairs, which you probably know about for equine assisted learning right now to all kinds of programs out there. I hope you are able to realize that. But it also sounds like you're spread pretty thin with all you do. That's the reason why I, I waited until I retired from the military to really get as many as I have out there, although I've been working at it, but I just became the president and started our back, our, our equine club, our saddle club for the area it had gone. Dormant for about the last four or five years, at least. But it got that back going last spring. But again, I had to wait until I retired from the military. Cause I'm like, Oh, there's, I got too much going on with being a mom, being working and having military and all like that. So, you know, I'm, I'm now able to spend a little bit more of my time doing those kinds of things. And then my husband has his hobbies that we. It's been doing and my daughter is does a competitive dance. So we, we are definitely busy, but I wouldn't have it any other way. It sounds, sounds like a beautiful life. I would love to keep in touch and check in with how the different projects that you want to get going are, are happening and all. And we're Facebook friends. So that makes that easy. I just appreciate so much. You taking time to chat today. Is there anything else that you want to talk about? Did they cover most of your. Passionate things around horses. I'm just, I'm super excited to, to grow and learn and continue in my journey with horses, and I think that if you want to be with horses, that that should be your goal is to continue to learn and grow and. And constantly be in that mind frame that you don't know it all. I do see, I see the really great horse people, and I see the really crappy ones. And I think you either have one or the other a lot of times. You either have the people that are constantly trying to tear everybody down and know it all, or you have people who are genuinely always about trying to learn. And I, I think that. It's about being that other type that are trying to build people up and trying to learn and I hope that We can just build each other up and continue trying to learn and be the best that we can be That's all that that's all that I want to see And help other people be a part of our lives. That's why I wanted to start the saddle club is show everybody how much horses are worth in our lives and bring it out there for everyone so that they don't get forgotten. I know that we have, I know that we have. All of our modern conveniences, but let's not forget how important the horse is. That's very well said. Yeah, having an open mind and really recognizing the intrinsic value that horses bring, which is ever changing, also for what our needs are, is just Paramount. Paramount. And I know it's expensive, but if some of us can keep them and, and bring other people into loving them, gosh, what, what could be better? That's a good, it's a good mission. So would you say that you're part of the quiet revolution in the horse world, moving away from dominance? I, I would definitely say that, yes. Thank you. Well, thank you again, Sarah. I really appreciate it. I loved talking with you today. You too.