Interview with The Keepers of IRT-

In this episode, I talk with my retreat keepers about what brought us together, how horses suport this work and our" Why's "of bringing these particular retreats into the world.  Its a chance to get to know us all better.  We are each available for one on one sessions as well. Contact info for each keeper at the bottom.

Each gathering is a living tapestry of wisdom and modern understanding

for more information or to register-  www.rewindingtogether.net

These retreats provide variety and evolving content so as never to be exactly the same, yet offer continuity in personal growth and spiritual exploration.

Retreats venues change giving into new environments.​  Each retreat is custom made from our menu list: Collaborating with horses, meditation, forest and sound bathing, drumming, foraging, creating art, yoga, and free dance, primitive shelter building, learning by experience, shamanic journeying, and exploring human connection, ways of connecting to nature and feeling more alive.  All skills and activities that are proven to expand brain health.

Giana- gianabrasil@gmail.com.      Nicole- nicolejohnson94@gmail.com

Ishe-iabel.hhc@gmail.com

Transcript

Speaker 3: 0:00

Hi, I am Ishi Abel with the Horse Human Connection Matrix and IRT in Rewilding together. Today I'm with my co-facilitators. We call ourselves the Keepers. We each wear many hats, and we wanna make a podcast about why we're doing this, why this work is important to us in the world. And I'd like to start by a little bit about our background. I, I was a realtor. I was a stay home mom for 12 years. I have 12 years on and off helping and assisting in interpersonal skills workshops that were like three day social meditations of a lot of intense connection. I have about 10 years dabbling in equine assisted learning as a coach, and I've been a farmer and a rancher and some other stuff too. I've been a dancer most of my life, although never a professional, just always for pleasure. I've had horses live with me for the last, oh, I think we're going on 15 years, and I feel very passionate about this work for a lot of reasons and. Once I sent the intention to actually form a retreat center, things began to fall into place like magically, including meeting these two amazing women that I'd like you to get to know a little bit better. Nikki, can you tell us a little bit about yourself?

Speaker 2: 1:40

Yeah. What a beautiful introduction. Ishi. The way we met really was synchronous and synchronicity is a word that pops up synchronously in my life so much lately. And my name is Nicole Romero. I live in Oregon, here in beautiful Oregon country. I'm from Southern California and I moved up here in my early adulthood and I experienced a magic in these lands that. I never got to experience growing up. And I've learned, I have developed a relationship with what I would call something sacred and most of my adult life has been exploring the sacred and also exploring systems. I'm a systems person. I've worked as a caseworker in a past life. I've worked in systems supporting families and young children with delays and disabilities. And my own family growing up was very impacted and enmeshed with the systems that are supposedly designed to protect us in our modern world. And yet that was not my experience. And truly that isn't the experience of many. And so it's been a journey and a passion of mine. For exploring those systems and exploring the sacred and exploring ways to bring those together. And in my quest, I've you know, I recently, a year or two ago completed my master's degree in clinical mental health counseling and I'm pursuing licensure as a professional counselor. And again, adding another layer to my understanding of how to bring together systems and sacred. And that's what really is interesting and fun and inspiring to me about in Rewilding together because this is an experiment in exactly that, in embodiment and bringing together the outside world and the internal world and finding a new rhythm, finding a new relationship in our world. That is a, it is a feeling experience. And so while my, you know, accolades, my education and those things, you know, feel great earlier when Ishi took us through a little meditation of feeling the power of a time that we felt really successful or felt our achievements and felt the receiving of those achievements, I thought about my schooling and thought about this or that, you know accolade. But what really brought a smile to my face with thinking about a little card that I got from my son. At, at Christmas time that said, you're the best mom ever. And it's just this beautiful card about how much he loves me and all these things. And he is just the most darling sweet little human that I'm just like blessed to have. And sometimes I don't know where he came from and how he learned so much about love. And and that really feels like one of the biggest accomplishments to me in my life. Maybe as cliche as that sounds in a way. But it truly is, it's something that to me is a huge honor being a mom and having a genuine, like, amazing relationship with my son and my family. So yeah, and I do lots of fun stuff on the side, art, hating dancing and just. Enjoying creating fun in my world. So yeah. Thank you. That's all about me.

Speaker 3: 5:42

And Gianna, tell us about you.

Speaker 5: 5:45

Yeah, hi. My name's Gianna and I met Ishi last year also through a unique, interesting journey. We were introduced through a woman. I did a, a training with an equine facilitator training with in Colorado last summer, and I live in Northern California, north of San Francisco. And I was planning a trip to Oregon and I told this woman, oh, I'm going to Oregon soon. And she said, oh, I think I know somebody who lives in Oregon who does this work. You should just look her up. And I'm thinking, okay, I'll, I'll reach out to this woman. I'm gonna be in Oregon, you know, for a week. Who knows if she's available or around. And I reached out and I said, Hey, you don't know me. This is how I was introduced to you. Would you wanna meet and talk? And she said, yes, absolutely. And we met and we ta talked for two hours at her farm and, and then thus a, a relationship blossomed from that. So it was really cool happenstance that, that, that came about. So a little bit about me and my background. So I am from Texas originally. I didn't know that. Oh yeah. I born and raised in Dallas, Texas. I, I don't have an accent. Most people say, but you don't have an accent. Well, it's'cause my father's Brazilian. So I was raised in a household. My mother is American from Texas. My father's Brazilian. And so I grew up with a, a person with a foreign accent and, and my mother really got rid of her Texas accent. So so I think that's, that was the influence, you know, in my house was a, a bi bicultural household and I traveled back and forth to Brazil a lot. So. I I went to law school as my out of college. You know, what am I gonna do with my life? I went to law school. I did become an attorney for a couple of years. I practiced family law and realized really quickly that is not what I wanna do with my life. I really love helping people. But I decided that that's not how I wanted to do it. So I also had a career in the corporate world for 14 years as a recruiter. During that time, I went to, I took a course in life coaching studied under Martha Beck. I just, I, I read one of her books and it just resonated with me. I loved it and thought, okay, this is actually how I wanna help people. I, I always struggled with what am I supposed to do with my life? What do I wanna be when I grow up? I, in my thirties, I'm like, I don't, I don't know the answer to this question yet. I think I'm actually actually still figuring that out. I think we're always kind of still answering that question. What do, what do we wanna be when we grow up? Right. Yeah. I don't think we're, I, I don't think we ever grow up. I, I think we're just, we're,'cause we're constantly growing. I became a life coach and I dual, I, I I followed a dual career track. At the time I was still doing recruiting, but then I also was doing coaching and I fell into career coaching. And because of my background in recruiting and really understanding what it took to get into different careers in my own journey of different careers'cause. What I've given you guys is a tiny little sliver of what I've actually done. I've had multiple jobs in my life from figure skating coach to attorney, to life coach, to, you know, lots

Speaker 3: 9:07

of things. When, when, when you're that well-rounded, if you tell people everything right away before they know you very well, sometimes they think you're making it up, right? So, yeah, I'm learning stuff about you right now and right now. Yeah. I, I appreciate that. How full you are.

Speaker 5: 9:25

Yeah. They either think that or they think you're crazy. I, I've got too. Mm-hmm. Yeah. But you know, it's like, well, I'm in my late forties now. I've had some time to have several jobs and several iterations of me. So yeah. So I found a passion in helping other people. Figure out what they wanted to be when they grow up. Mm-hmm. And find satisfaction in work that, that's so important to me. That's how I came to life coaching is'cause I wasn't satisfied in work and I want, and I thought, well, we spend so many hours of our lives in these jobs, we should find some satisfaction or enjoyment in what we do. Absolutely. I think the old model of just clock in and clock out and that industrialization, you know, gray theme, that, that is not how humans should live. Mm-hmm. So let's find some, some passion and some, some meaning in our work. And I wanted to help other people find that. And I thought it was truly, it's truly possible for everyone. And so I did that for a few years, just taking private clients on the side while also recruiting. And I'm also a mom. I have two beautiful daughters. They're 16 and 11. And so that also has, you know, I've kind of ebbed and flowed in how involved I've been. You know, there's, there's certain times where you just, you're more all hands on deck for the kids. And so my career has kind of taken a winding path. But recently, so I'm now a real estate agent. Next iteration. Yeah, recruiting in 2020 just wasn't the place to be when the world shut down and nobody was hiring anybody. So I decided to get out of that. I went into real estate. So I'm a realtor in Marin County in California which offers me the flexibility to be able to both be a mom and pursue some of these other endeavors, which I'm doing now. I'm really marrying all the skill sets, right? So my attorney hat, my mom hat, my coaching hat, it's all coming together and I've always wanted to participate in retreats and really help people find their center, their grounding, their why in life, whether that's in career or love or just, you know, the reason for being. I really, really am passionate about that and really love helping people find that, that direction. So now I'm evolving again into the work that I'm doing with in Rewilding Together and these retreats and really retreats offer the. Ability to dive deeper. So I know we're gonna get into that. But I, a little bit,

Speaker 3: 12:12

this is, this is great. I, I love where this conversation is going and I'd like to talk, I hadn't originally thought about that, but what's coming up for me is like, I wanna tell you guys and everybody how those interpersonal retreats like have affected my life. And I think all of us have been to retreats and the magic that can happen there where you are in a sense, you're in a container that is a little counter to our culture. And I think that's why we seek out retreats, is because in our everyday lives, in our getting busy with our jobs and our families, we, our, our lifestyles, our culture, our modern society doesn't provide for. Extended time in nature, extended time to feel what we feel and to talk to other people and to process it. And people are different types of processors. They are, some people are internal, some people are verbal. Some people do best sitting alone in nature or learning through experiences with horses and other people. For myself, it's a combination of all of those things and the really deep connection that I've experienced at retreats and long weekends where people see each other and people are allowed to talk about things that there maybe isn't time to talk about in their lives or, or enough time to think and feel and then talk about. And one of the things that we've come together to create at in Rewilding retreats is also art and time to journal. And sound baths that allow our, our subconscious or our unconscious to do some of that processing while we're still in a situation where we feel belonging. And when we feel that belonging, you know, the neuroscience behind all of this with dopamine and serotonin and, oxytocin, that those releases at different times. While we're in a community of humans, as humans, we're meant to live in groups, not alone. Something happens that we can take with us when we reenter our regular lives, that we can take practices with us, that changes happen. Changes happen in immersion of retreats. And that's one of the reasons we're doing four and five day retreats, is to give people that full opportunity to immerse themselves and process and integrate before they return. And. If you guys have some experiences about retreats that have been life changing or just impactful for you, I think that's helpful to talk about.

Speaker 5: 15:04

Yeah, I mean, I, I experienced it both at having gone to Lin, you know, some people know what that is and, and being able to be there and break free from technology and not be on the phone and computer and, and be able to just be still.

Speaker: 15:23

Mm-hmm.

Speaker 5: 15:24

And time slows down. Be able to just read journal, meditate, be still, and then talking to other people who are doing the same thing, I think is also key because we can, if we allow ourselves go. Be still take a camping trip, that kind of thing. But if everyone, you, you have something different happens mm-hmm.

Speaker: 15:49

When you

Speaker 5: 15:50

have a big group who's all doing it. Mm-hmm. It's like a, a vibration difference. And then you have that, you can share your experience with another and you might get a different, an aha moment because of listening to someone else's experience. I had that not only there, but also with when I was in the life coaching course, I met a group of women. There were nine of us who really bonded in that coaching. Course we kept doing semi-annual retreats for three years after we were done with the coaching course. So twice a year, all nine of us would get together, which is, is the feat to try to coordinate nine schedules is really hard. But we all really wanted to do it. And we would spend a weekend and we would usually take turns hosting and. That weekend would be about disconnecting from our technology and our jobs and our families and whatever our other social structure was. And we would each bring our talent, whatever it might be, somebody Red Tarot, somebody led a vision boarding and we would just come together in retreat for a weekend and, and do that and support one another. And that group support is so valuable. So that that's, you know, the experience that I've had and realize this is so beneficial that I want to bring this to other people. And most people don't have nine sisters to call on to go get together with. Right. I had this very special thing for a time it lasted up until COVID. And then of course, you know, people dispersed, so creating a space where an individual can come or a couple can come and we put these groups together.

Speaker: 17:31

Mm-hmm.

Speaker 5: 17:32

And it's really interesting. A lot of people worry about, well, what other people are gonna be there? Am I gonna get along with them? It always manages to work. And the other situations I've been in it, you typically find maybe one or two people you gel with really well there. And then it, it works,

Speaker 3: 17:51

it does. Because at the, at a very base level, you know, there's like five to seven human needs that all of us have some variation of whether it's needing and wanting to be seen, you know, which can result in, in shyness and not wanting to be seen. But really you do wanna be seen or wanting to be liked, wanting to be loved, wanting to be respected. Different versions of those erupt in different ways. And when we reduce everything and we really get honest and more raw. We're able to connect at that very base level. I'm, I'm sure you know quite a bit about that with what you've studied and where you've been to Nikki.

Speaker 2: 18:33

There's a specific image that's coming to mind for me at the first retreat I ever went to. So therapy was never something I was interested in. It didn't feel accessible to me financially. I had my own traumas from childhood with therapy. I felt disempowered, I felt afraid of, of the world of therapy. I felt like it there was sort of a message for me that if you don't have money, you don't get healing.

Speaker: 19:02

Hmm.

Speaker 2: 19:02

And. Therefore, I, I really had no interest in it. And so my own healing happened in nature and exploring plants and some of these things. And so I was really drawn to a retreat. It was actually a psilocybin retreat. And it was very inexpensive and it was for a long weekend. And I thought, you know, maybe I should just, just try it, just see what happens. And there was a moment, I mean, there was a few moments for me that I, that I loved to remember. But one moment for me that has carried forward, you know, through all the years since was this moment of community where, you know, I'm in a circle, in a group of complete strangers and we're all going through something. Our own version of a really deep experience. We're all going through something really emotional at the same time. They might be totally different things, but we're all going through something really deep. And I remember I looked around and I thought, oh my God, I just wanna like hug these people. I just want to give them a hug. But is that weird? What would they think? I don't know them. Would they think that's like weird of me? And then I thought, well, why not just ask, okay, I can do that. Hi, would you like a hug? And some people said, yeah, I do wanna hug. And we hugged and it was wonderful. And some people said, you know, no, I, I don't need that right now. And then it was like, oh, there it is for me. There's that rejection. There's that. Am I good enough? What did I do? Am I weird? Am I bad? Blah, blah, blah. And through that process of like, oh, maybe it's okay to just be close to somebody and not be hugging, or maybe it's okay to just smile at someone and know that I'm here with you, even if that's all that you're comfortable with. And through that process, it's like a simple moment. But it was, it was so profound for me because it, it created a new relationship of what it actually means to be in community. It's about sensing one another and about kind of assessing what's going on for us internally in connection with another, and how can we use that interaction to then grow ourselves and to become more of ourselves. And and so that's, I think what I've loved the most about retreats is a sense of coming together so many different experiences and yet. There's this flow, and I will say the facilitators matter so much in creating that, that container where that feeling of like, okay, some work can happen and, and maybe it's safety, maybe it's curiosity, maybe it's openness. But I've been lucky enough to be in all the retreat spaces I've been in, to be with wonderful facilitators who were sensitive and attuned to what was going on and had clear boundaries around things that maybe didn't even need to be explicitly spoken, but it was really felt. And in that atmosphere, people's walls come down and you see like a more human version of one another, and you realize, or at least I realized that wow, we're all really going through such similar things. Like you said, Ishi, there's just a handful of things that we're all seeking. So, yeah, for me it was just so profoundly healing and my connection to everyone in the world where I used to feel like such an outsider. It's like, no, I'm just one of many,

Speaker 3: 22:50

just couple different forms. E exactly. Belonging is what so many people are searching for. And even before COVID, but definitely since COVID and during COVID the amount of isolation that happened changed a lot of us. I mean, it really changed us and people are still trying to get back. Therapists are are so busy. I mean, it's hard to get in. It's hard to find someone, even though we keep producing more therapists all the time. They get, they get burnt out. And so retreats are a great way to make progress and experience things that we don't get to experience other places. And building that container, as you both talked about, is really important. And I feel like we've done a great job at the retreats we've had, creating that container, talking about what goes into creating that container and being able to hold the space. And what I love and appreciate about both of you so much, and the other facilitators that we've worked with is how they show up being present and setting the example, because we work on the stuff in between retreats. We work on the stuff all the time too. Have the personal growth, to have the awareness and to practice being present so that we can show up and bring that into the container, which is a big part of how that gets formed. I wanna talk a little bit about, purpose and drive. We've each touched on that. I, in my life, I have been drawn to a lot of activities that I've made a priority. One of those was, dance and the way it feels to dance, the way it feels to connect with other women. To see my image in a mirror moving in unison or synchronicity with other, with other bodies. And we now know that dance produces different neurochemicals and creates trust in ways that other activities don't. There's so many benefits to it, and so it's no wonder when I look back through periods of my life, if I went six months without dancing, something wasn't right. It just wasn't right. So I'd go and find a class and that, that led me in a lot of different interesting places. Another thing that I've always done. Walk in the forest by the river or on the beach. And again, those things are things that our bodies and our nervous systems need. I don't think I mentioned this earlier, but for 10 years in the summertime, I taught people how to build mud houses and putting our feet or hands in the dirt releases also other brain chemicals that are proven to help our mental health that you don't get other places, which, you know, explains passions around gardening. And the cob building that I did that was mixing clay, sand and straw on tarps with our feet, and then hand applying it and sculpting a house, and all of the wonderful things that happened with that. Now, these, these connections with the earth, with our bodies, with other people are a lot of the foundation of IRT,

Speaker: 26:03

Mm-hmm.

Speaker 5: 26:05

Yeah, but Ishi, I wanna make a comment on what you were saying about that, you know, putting our hands in the earth and I just was having this imagery of like squishing the mud. Mm-hmm. And it makes me think of children and you know, this, I mean, children, we are wise until our society tells us otherwise.

Speaker: 26:21

Mm-hmm.

Speaker 5: 26:23

Children are drawn to that. They love squishing mud Play-Doh because they know the, the wisdom, the true wisdom is there in their body, innate it's in their bodies. They know that's releasing something, that's connecting with something. And it's only us, you know, adults who are like, don't do that're getting your hands dirty. Let's, let's don't bring it inside. And eventually then we, we disconnect from that because of what we're told and our expectations. But yeah, that's why I think that that sensory stuff, it's in preschool it's, it's, it's innate. When we're before we're five years old, is to do that and we lose that. And so I love that. You know, you brought that back to, you know, adults who are like probably loving, squishing the mud again. Yeah. Finding that child again.

Speaker 3: 27:12

Yeah. Yeah. I'm remembering one little movie clip that someone did a, a fun little interview while we were working with Cobb in, in one of the early workshops and and the, the photographer was asking the participant, so, are you enjoying this? You know, do you like it? And she's like, yeah, it's really great, except I don't like to get dirty. I mean, she was totally kidding. But, you know, we're all covered in mud and. And it's a beautiful thing. It's really is a beautiful thing. So I think my passion for being able to share what I've been drawn to my whole life are ways to regulate my nervous system. I didn't understand neuroscience. I, I just recently learned a little bit about it, and that was in regard with horses because of a book called Horse Brain, human Brain that I needed to read and understand to, to be around the horses. But it opened up like, oh, that's why I've always been drawn to these activities that have been so satisfying and so important, because innately, intuitively, I knew that my nervous system, because I'm very sensitive, needed that regulation that I got from those activities. And I'm fortunate enough that I listened to myself and I see the need today. More than ever to be able to share that with other people, not just during the immersion process, but a way to take those things home and integrate them into their lives. To have wellness that carries forward and to also be the points of connection moving forward. The things that we do when we're in that container, as far as being human together, that doesn't happen a lot of places, doesn't happen in most workplaces.

Speaker 5: 29:00

Mm-hmm.

Speaker 3: 29:00

And people are able to carry that out into the world.

Speaker 5: 29:05

Yeah. For a time,

Speaker 2: 29:07

right?

Speaker 5: 29:10

For

Speaker 2: 29:11

yes. Time.

Speaker 5: 29:14

That's why continuing to do the work and come back to it is so important. Because when, yeah, when I, I found that myself, I, I go, I do a retreat. I've got all this new information. I feel rejuvenated. I have all these goals, and then I go into the real world and, you know, we're creatures of habit and we fall back into our old patterns eventually. And three months later, I've kind of forgotten, or I've, I, I've left behind some of those things that I learned at the retreat. And I think that, I mean, that's normal. It's natural. And so continuing to go back to that revisit those places, do a retreat or some, some work frequently, I think it's, it's very important in order to continue the growth.

Speaker 2: 30:07

There's a metaphor that comes to mind, or maybe you've heard the saying that if you grew up in a cardboard box your whole life, you don't know until one day you see a mansion and then you realize, oh my God, I live in a cardboard box. Right? Like that perspective

Speaker: 30:21

mm-hmm.

Speaker 2: 30:22

Shift. It's what truly changes how we see our lives and our experience, and I think mm-hmm. What, I've experienced a lot in the world supporting a lot of teachers and again parents, people that are involved, in our systems of work, right? That nine to five that you're talking about, that clocking in, that clocking out where you have all these lists of expectations and there's so much weight and pressure from the powers that be to check these boxes and in that environment. Where there's so much stress, both externally and internally from our own shame and guilt and pressure that we put on ourselves, it's easy to forget those things because our brain just isn't in the right environment to obtain that information and to keep it alive. And so I think not only are retreats this amazing like breakout point where you get to see, oh my God, I've been in a cardboard box. And you get to feel peace for the first time maybe ever, maybe you've never experienced a sense of slowness or peace like this, that now you can go, wow, now I can see and feel how much my daily life is filled with all of these other elements of stress or what have you. But then also you have a container to come, a container to come back to, to re-remember. And I do think, you know, just the way that much of our society is organized today. It does require, we need to get out of that to remember what it feels like so that we can, again, bring that back into our daily life and little by little make these changes in our society so that we can live this life more effortlessly. I believe it's possible and I see it happening, you know, more and more.

Speaker 3: 32:05

Yes. And you bring up a really important point that what happens in retreats and the changes that people make are what they take out into the world. You know, their next interactions with the grocery store clerk and or their families. There are moments of more pause. There are moments of taking time for deeper understanding, taking time to appreciate more things. And when we take that out into the world, the world begins to shift. The world begins to change. You know, we change and we bring that change.

Speaker 4: 32:42

Mm-hmm.

Speaker 3: 32:42

And, you know, coming back again and again to a practice, those, those retreats that I did on and off for 12 years, the three day intensivess, the facilitators all held the space really well. Occasionally the facilitators would change up, there'd be a new facilitator and things might fall apart a little bit, but they. Kept the same activities, which had a good continuity, but after a while, got got a little bit boring and tiresome. And so one of the things I wanted to do in designing in Rewilding together was to create a framework with a menu that we could pull different things from this menu for each retreat and keep them interesting and provide variety. And we're so doing that in 2026. And I am, I'm super excited about the things that we have coming up. I, I just wanna go back to, I don't know, have we covered really the why each of us, of our why of why we do this work? Maybe there's a little quick summary from, from you guys about that.

Speaker 5: 33:52

Yeah, I I think I covered it a little bit. You know, just my own journey of trying to find rewarding work and. Just really recognizing that we don't have to suffer through work. That's a choice.

Speaker: 34:12

Mm-hmm.

Speaker 5: 34:13

And I don't, and I choose not to suffer through my life. I'm gonna make a different choice and I want to help others see that they can make a choice too. And so that's part of it. I think another big part, and specifically why not just retreats, but why animals and retreats. As you know, I'm really drawn to horses specifically. I've always loved them and been a horse, crazy girl. It's a connection that I can't explain. I think other, only other horse crazy people can understand. But seeing, so my younger daughter has sensory sensitivity differences. They call it sensory something disorder, but I call it sensory difference. And is on the A DHD spectrum and all of that. Well, she gets really overwhelmed by just everyday life stuff. And I find that when I take her out to be with the horses, she's not even that into riding. That's not even her thing. She just loves being with them. And I see a change in her nervous system. I don't even have to do anything. I don't have to say anything. It's just her being with them, hugging, brushing. Sometimes she'll have a conversation with them. I don't even know what they're talking about. Something secret between them. Like the other day she was talking to your goats. Clearly they were having a connection and she was right there with them. And that's inspiring. I love seeing that. And when I think it's easier for children, you know, because they don't have that, you know, silliness that we, adults might feel like, oh, I can't talk to animals. I'm gonna feel, everyone's gonna think I'm weird. Children don't have that. So bringing that to adults of no, it's actually really okay, you can just be here. You can be with this animal, you can talk to them, you can have a connection with them and slow down and see what happens. And I've seen what happens. And I just think it's it's really powerful.

Speaker 3: 36:26

It absolutely is. I love that Gianna. Yeah.

Speaker 2: 36:33

I feel like I've touched on a lot of points, but what you just mentioned just brings me back to, for me that has been a journey for myself too, is allowing myself to be sensitive in this world. And the more sensitive I am, the more that I find that I have to deal with things like grief and processing that can be really challenging. And so having these spaces where this can be a shared experience and where I've woken up to realizing that I'm not alone in that grief and that. Not even am I not alone as a human, but that other animals can also experience that. And doing work with ish's horses on, on her farm you know, I've been able to explore grief in ways that I haven't been able to with a human being. And I'm deeply, deeply grateful to Sipsy for, for being a teacher for me in that way. And holding space for me and, in ways that, I think a lot of humans find hard so far, and we're all learning how to hold space for one another and how to be more sensitive. And I find that to be so beautiful. So I'm just really excited to be a part of this and to meet any of you who, you know, who we get to meet in the future. To be part of our journey and our story. Know that each of you that comes and spends time with us, you touch us. You touch our heart just as much as, the animals or pieces of us touch your heart. We're all creating a story together, and I find that to be so beautiful and inspiring. Yeah,

Speaker 5: 38:06

yeah. Yeah. And it also reminds me of a moment that we witnessed last weekend with one of the people, who connected with a horse. And there were no words, it was just emotions. And that person didn't have words for what was experienced even. And that's where like a horse or an animal can hold that. For a person, because there's no expectation of words, there's no expectation of all at all, actually. That person doesn't need to explain themself to the horse. And there's just a knowing and a sharing and a supporting there. That was beautiful. It gives something different that we humans can't necessarily offer to that person in that moment.

Speaker 3: 38:57

Yeah. You, you guys are both bringing up excellent points and I'm so glad that we're having this conversation and, and really being able to express all the things because it's hard to do in advertising. We can't let people know what we're offering in, you know, in a little box with a few pictures. And some of the things that you touched on Gianna and, and you did too Nicole, are about safety and security. And these are things that sometimes we don't think about or talk about either. But in order to make life changes, our, our safety has to be there and we have to feel a certain amount of security and being able to find in, in our home environments and in selves, the trust to be able to make changes and move forward. And the container that we create and the communities that can be created are part of that safety and trust that happens. The horses are a big part of that too, where, where people may not be able to trust a human anymore because of so many letdowns or bad experiences, a lot of times they can trust the horse. And what we witnessed last weekend. I see that all the time with people and the horses, it's, they're there and the horses have a capacity for empathy. They have the largest limbic system of any land mammal, and they have more empathy than a lot of humans do. And somehow people sense that even if they've never been around a horse, and it helps bring things to the surface, and then the container, the people and the horses and the land can hold that and create the safety that people are, are craving. Yeah. Yeah. Should we talk about some of the things we have planned for 2026? Sure. Let's do it. Yes.

Speaker 2: 41:00

What do we normally think of when we think of Valentine's Day? Right. Roses chocolates romcoms. And for a lot of people, sure Valentine's can be the symbol of love, but for a lot of people it can feel, you know, if you don't feel like you have that significant other, or that couple, or that person can feel like there's so much expectation and weight and it can feel so lonely, it can. And so having a a Valentine's celebration. Rewilding celebration. Where we are getting rid of the fluff, the, the money, the capitalism part of it. And we are just coming together to drum, to dance, to savor, to slow down to rewild, you know, all these components of rewilding where we find this rhythm with nature and with community and with one another. We are doing that indoors at a adorable little yoga studio. It's called Body Balance Center downtown Roseburg, Oregon. It's gonna be on Valentine's Day evening. All our welcome couples, singles, whoever. It's just a chance to come connect. Dance drum, feel the beat. And, and connect with one another and have a great time.

Speaker 3: 42:15

So some people get inhibited about dancing as adults, what was your reaction to some of the, the practice icebreakers that we did at dance?

Speaker 2: 42:26

Well, you know, I just wanna share my partner, Chris, is one of those people that he is terrified of dancing. Even, you know, in the years that we've been together, like me getting him to dance in the kitchen with me, I feel like was a really big deal. And he's been terrified of like going to salsa dancing with me. And so he's had all these like, I don't know, I'm not ready. And so for him to come out and really under the disguise of a drum circle he didn't know that there was gonna be any dancing. But through even, you know, even in the drum circle, he was nervous. About that. What if I mess up? What is like, what's the expectation? Am I gonna, am I any good? Like, I don't drum, what do I know? And after we did some drumming and he just like loosened up and he was having a great time and realize that there was, it's okay if you mess up, who cares? The drum circle goes on. You can step out, you can come in. And from there we started exploring with some different activities like mirroring one another to some fun music. And what I noticed happened for him was just like this childlike smile from ear to ear that would not quit for the entire night. And what I love about, you know, the space that we're creating, Ishi is there's no expectation. Dancing is just moving your body in a way that feels good. It doesn't have to be big, it doesn't have to be small, it doesn't have to be anything. It can just. Be what it wants to be. And by creating some of these little exercises where we get to explore something fun and there's a little bit of structure, and then we get to kind of from there, be creative and loosen up and maybe go in our own directions a little bit. I think what we're doing is creating a space where there's a little bit of structure for those who might feel a little nervous, but then there's also room for creativity and growth for those who feel like they just want to get wild and let loose, you

Speaker 3: 44:27

know? Right. Yeah. Thank you. I thought it was, I thought it was successful. And I love those moments where people realize that they can embrace awkwardness and they can show up and that they rekindle something from, you know, when you're two or three years old and you're not subject to judgment and fear and those things and be in your body.

Speaker 5: 44:52

Yeah. Yeah. Thanks again. We come back to the wisdom of the children under five.

Speaker 3: 44:57

Right? Absolutely. Like what does it feel like, what does it feel like to be in kindergarten again? Right. It was actually when I was in my early twenties, somebody started doing kindergarten retreats in a kindergarten room, and they would just have adults come in and go through the kindergarten day with the kindergarten teacher. And nap time was like the favorite thing. And juice cookies and a story.

Speaker 5: 45:20

I was just gonna say that like we wish should have a retreat led by under five year olds because Yes. I I that, I love that.

Speaker 2: 45:27

Yeah. It, it's so real. That's so. Somewhere along the way, I feel like we learned that we have to ask permission, is it okay to be me? Is it okay to have fun? Is it okay to be silly? Is it okay to move? Is it okay? Is it okay? And that is, you know, I feel like we're creating a space where it's like, yes, it's okay.

Speaker 3: 45:48

Yes. The answer, all of that is yes.

Speaker 5: 45:50

Yeah. Yeah. Not only wait, not only do we have to ask for permission, some people actually think the answer is no. The don't even ask for permission to be silly. They think no. The assumption is no.

Speaker 3: 46:01

Yeah. The lived in your body assumption is no. So this is a lot about the Mustang trip. Tell us about that Gianna.

Speaker 5: 46:12

Oh yeah. So we in, at the end of June are gonna be going on a. Wilderness journey. We are riding out on pack horses to track Nikki's ready. We are gonna ride out at a walk mostly but riding out to track wild mustangs in their natural habitat and observe and learn from that experience along the way. During, over the course of the four days and three nights that we'll be camping out there, we are also going to be doing some mindfulness activities where we're gonna be practicing, getting back into our bodies, doing some meditation for grounding detoxing because we will not have cell service. So detoxing from technology and having that retreat space because our group, that forums that comes out there will be the, our little family space for those few days. So we're having a, a retreat. Out in the wilderness and then have the added benefit of these beautiful wild mustangs to go observe and commune with them. I'm really, really excited about this. This is something I've wanted to do for actually a really long time. It's just go and see wild horses and, and, and watch them in their family bands in their natural habitat and just see how wild horses are without humans interacting with them. So I am just really, really excited about this. While we're. Out there. We're gonna be doing some of these fun activities like what Nikki mentioned some of these kind of intro dance activities, getting back into our bodies, maybe a little bit of silliness. But we're also gonna learn more about equine communication issues gonna lead us in some of that including also learning a little bit about, and I'll let you speak to this issue about acupressure and what is, you know, living in the horse's body and what kind of, what kind of release we might be able to offer them which is kind of nice, right? These beautiful pack horses are gonna be our partners as we ride them out into this wilderness and we'll be able to offer a little gift back to them as well. So. While we're out there, we're gonna also be filming and capturing on film this experience. Of course, people will have a choice that be on film or not. They don't have to be. But mostly just documenting our experience while we're out there and we hope to produce a little short documentary film out of this experience with being out there and being regulated in our bodies and observing the wild mustangs and the lessons that we take from that.

Speaker 3: 49:03

Yeah, I'm super excited about it too. No, you did a great job of explaining all of that. I am we have some awesome things planned also in May of 2026. We have a five day, it's four full days, but it's a total of five days, four nights of camping, and I added it up this morning. There's about 22 hours of education and it's about. Our intuition, it's about do we have psychic abilities? It's testing this out. It's learning about edible medicinals and wild plants, and once we ingest them, how it opens us up to be able to find others. I'm not talking about anything hallucinogenic here. I'm just talking about like black cap raspberries or nettles. And once we form a relationship with the wild plant world, my personal experience has been, and I've talked to several other people that have experienced the same thing. It's as if you get like a psychic memo of when that plant is ripe the next year and ready for harvest. It's about that. It's about how writing and painting and art. Can that we can transfer to each other. We're gonna play with that kind of psychic abilities. And I believe everybody has these abilities. It's a matter of which ones are strongest in you and how to cultivate them. And even if you don't feel that, even if you're skeptical, we welcome that. We, we welcome. Like, just be open to the experience and if psychic stuff doesn't resonate with you, every human has an intuition. We have the same type of cells in our brains, in our hearts, and in our guts. There's brain matter in your heart and in your gut. They've proven this.

Speaker 5: 51:02

Yep. They talk about it. The gut brain.

Speaker 3: 51:03

The gut brain. Exactly. And if you think about all the colloquialisms about like, listen to your heart, listen to your gut. We've known this for a really long time, even before the science. And reconnecting with that, being able to make decisions that are integrated from your gut and your heart and your head is, is a great goal.

Speaker 4: 51:27

Mm-hmm.

Speaker 3: 51:28

And so what we're gonna explore in this retreat is our relationship with that intuition that everyone has. Everyone's got a story of, I should have listened to my intuition, or I listened to my intuition and that day I think it saved my life. I hear those stories all the time, so let's slow down and unpack that and deepen it.

Speaker 5: 51:51

Yeah. Yeah. I'm really excited about this. You know, being a, a more analytical person myself and I think I, I did live the first half of my life letting my head lead everything.

Speaker: 52:03

Mm-hmm.

Speaker 5: 52:03

And while I achieved some great things with that, I mean, our, let's not knock it. Our brains are really powerful muscles for us. They, they keep us out trouble do, do a lot of great things for us. You know I ignored my gut and probably my heart for a long time. I was disconnected from it. And only in my thirties when I started going through coaching school did I reconnect and. Now, now I will not make any big decisions without checking in with my gut. And then, you know, the heads, I, let's not just count that the heads no, the

Speaker 3: 52:46

head, the head is valid, but let's keep it in balance.

Speaker 5: 52:48

Yeah,

Speaker 3: 52:49

yeah. You know, it's an integration.

Speaker 5: 52:51

Yeah.

Speaker 3: 52:51

That gives us the, the best representation of what, what each of us can do and the decisions that we can make. And yeah, along with, along with those other things, we're also gonna make lots of time for the animal communication and the horses, and I think that's gonna be really great. There's also chickens and goats and a dog and a cat around and sometimes some river otters, so, and all kinds of birds. So yeah, it's gonna be really amazing. And I know Nikki's gonna cook us some amazing food too. Yes.

Speaker 5: 53:30

Yeah. Oh, I also think he is amazing. I'll just say that, like, I can't wait to eat your food again.

Speaker 2: 53:38

Yay. I also just wanted to add that, you know, I, this is gonna be a women's only retreat. Thank you. Mm-hmm. And they, we are creating you know, because we are gonna be communally camping together, we're creating a space that we hope will feel very intimate, very safe where we can really allow our frequencies to. Align together. And you know, even if the, the psychic thing isn't for you, what happens when you are in alignment with one another? You're on the similar frequency you do. It's like, you're like, wait a minute. I was thinking that thing. Oh, I thought of a butterfly that you have, like, you happen to have that as a tattoo on your body. Or, you know, there are these interesting synchronicities that start to open up and happen when you get a group of people on the same frequency. And along with the animals, when we start to attune to their frequency, then we all allow, you know, that's where kinda like telepathy starts happening. Whether you wanna call it telepathy or not, it's gonna be great. I'm really excited

Speaker 5: 54:44

There's something really powerful too when just women get together.

Speaker 3: 54:49

We're gonna be planning other retreats for couples, and I would love to do just a men's retreat too, or a couple's retreat where there's segregation during part of it, another part of the rewilding, like I chose that word rewilding because what, what Nikki was describing about that vibration that happens, that and, and what we've all described about this resonance of being human is something that I think we've forgotten. But when humans lived in tribes and smaller groups, we had more information in our bodies about our environment and about each other, and about functioning as a group. That we don't have, and we crave that, whether we know it or not. It's part of the belonging piece and it's part of what we're able to recreate. And I feel so grateful to be able to be a keeper of that information and a guide to how to reconnect with being human. Mm-hmm.

Speaker 5: 55:57

Yeah. I do feel like the, I've heard time and time again from other people, especially when we're in the retreat setting, where they say, I just want a community. People are seeking connection.

Speaker: 56:15

Mm-hmm.

Speaker 5: 56:15

Even more now, I think especially after COVID happened, I think we realized how detrimental it is when we're all separated to our mental health, to our overall wellbeing, and to our society as a whole. Coming together in community is so important. We are also herd animals, just like the horses. Right? We, we need a herd.

Speaker 3: 56:38

We do. And as AI creeps into our lives more and more, and I use it, I'm not opposed to it, it definitely has some issues that need to be ironed out. And it comes with some big ethical things. And this isn't that conversation by any means, but what I will say about the backdrop of that is it's going to isolate us more.

Speaker 4: 56:58

Mm-hmm.

Speaker 3: 56:58

It's gonna create situations where we need this more than ever.

Speaker 5: 57:04

Yeah. Need community and need to learn, not, it's not relearn that it's okay to rely on one another to support one another, to how to be there in support people how to be

Speaker 2: 57:20

there. Yeah. I love that. Like so many of us wanna help, wanna do the things, wanna be involved in change if only we knew how. Yeah, it takes communicating with one another and being in community so that we can figure out the how together. Yeah. I love that point. Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 3: 57:40

Me too. Me too. I think we've covered a lot of stuff, you guys. Thank you so much. This has been an awesome conversation and I'm excited to share it with people.

Speaker 5: 57:52

Yeah, me too.