Heal and Stay Healed with Kelly B Haney
The Heal and Stayed Healed with Kelly B Haney podcast is for anyone who is sick and tired of being sick and tired, particularly those with autoimmune disease or other chronic illness. It's for those who are ready to truly heal, and more importantly, truly STAY healed.
Through my training as a Certified Nutrition Coach, but mostly through insight gained from my personal experience with overcoming severe Ulcerative Colitis, I want to equip you to get better, stay better, and to become healthier than ever.
I've been able to stay completely autoimmune flare-free for well over a decade, and I believe that if I can do it, then you can too! Our bodies want to heal. They know how to heal. We just have to give them the support that they need.
I'm honored to walk alongside you as you take the next step in your own healing journey. Let's heal and stay healed together.
Heal and Stay Healed with Kelly B Haney
Food Addiction, Emotions, and Chronic Illness with Dr. Patty Ford
In this episode, I am joined by Dr. Patty Ford, who is a doctor of public health, an eating disorder registered dietician, and a Habit Finder coach. Together, we embark on an enlightening expedition, unravelling the knotted threads of food addiction and emotional connections to our dietary patterns, particularly in relation to those with chronic illness.
With each individual's dietary odyssey as unique as their fingerprint, we discuss the symphony of societal, environmental, and subconscious factors that orchestrate our every bite. We emphasize the importance of honoring our body's signals and embracing a holistic approach that marries mind, body, and spirit. Join us on this insightful voyage, and let Dr. Ford's wisdom guide you to greater healing, through a more mindful relationship with food and self.
Dr. Ford's website and contact info: https://www.drpatriciafordwellness.com/
Dr. Ford's Instagram: @dr.pattyannford
Website: www.kellybhaney.com
Email: info@kellybhaney.com
Instagram: @kellybhaney
Facebook: Kelly B Haney Wellness
Welcome to the Heal and Stay Healed podcast, where we talk about healing and, more importantly, staying healed from chronic disease and other ailments and issues. We'll cover all the crazy things about health and life the good, the bad, the ugly and the hilarious. My name is Kelly and I am a survivor and overcomer of severe autoimmune disease, and I can't wait to share with you what I've learned so that you can heal and stay healed too. Thanks for listening and enjoy the show. Hi friends, thank you for joining me for this episode of the Heal and Stay Healed with Kelly B Haney podcast. I am so excited for our guest today.
Speaker 2:She is Dr Patty Ford, and Dr Ford comes to us as an expert on a wide variety of topics. She is a doctor of public health and preventive care, a certified eating disorder registered dietitian and a habit finder coach. Dr Ford completed her BS in kinesiology at University of Maryland College Park. She earned her Master's of Public Health and Registered Dietitian License at Loma Linda University, and she obtained her doctoral degree in preventive care in 2012. Presently, she has her own private coaching practice, imagine Wellness, where she disrupts patterns of thinking, propelling her clients forward to reach the life of their dreams.
Speaker 2:In our conversation today, we tackle the huge topic of food addiction, particularly addiction to highly processed foods, and how they can conflict with truly moving into a healing and health promoting lifestyle. Besides the fact that these foods are designed to be addictive, with their crunch and poof sensations a term that we will expand on we talk a whole lot about the mind-body connection and the essential role that emotional healing plays when it comes to our relationship with food, the major role that things like grief work and uncovering childhood food experiences play in healing and, very interestingly, dr Ford shares with us the commonalities that she sees the most in people with chronic illness. We also touch on the importance of listening to your body and positioning yourself to hear what it has to say. Dr Ford shares a lot with us today, and I'm certain that you'll find a lot of interesting nuggets and takeaways that you may find yourself thinking about well after the episode ends. So let's get going.
Speaker 2:Here we are with Dr Petty Ford. Welcome, dr Ford. Thank you. I'm happy to be here. So I already introduced you to the audience and I shared a little bit about your bio, but let's start off. Can you just explain what is it that you do in your day to day, and why do you do what you do?
Speaker 1:So my elevator speech or short answer is I improve and untangle people's relationships with their food, body weight and eating, and day to day, I talk with people all day long. So I'm in conversation, whether it be with clients who have retained my services, versus navigating new relationships, cultivating those relationships. So a lot of conversation, then owning your own business behind the scenes, doing admin work. So it depends upon the day, but today was admin work and conversation. In the morning I have you and I have a client later this evening.
Speaker 2:Nice. And why is it that you do what you do? What inspires you to do it?
Speaker 1:I think I feel I have been coaching and counseling the word. I have loved being in people's spaces since I was really little and I didn't really know that's what I loved doing until maybe about three years ago. I was like, oh, this is called coaching. This is like a thing People can actually make a living out of this. I can make a business out of this. So I love learning about people's stories and then using my skills, how I can impact their story or influence their story to better their health. Ultimately, Awesome.
Speaker 2:What's your favorite part about working with your clients?
Speaker 1:Such a good question. This question always makes me feel funny about answering it because it sounds like I love listening to people's pain. And I love listening to people's pain, I love listening to what makes them unique. I think everyone has a story, everyone has what's happened to them, and I think that's my favorite part, because it makes everyone so unique. And that's where the story is. I know there's a culture oh gosh, they have pottery and they actually break the pottery and then they fill the pottery, they put it back together and then they fill the breaks with gold and they say that is actually worth more than the original pottery. So they literally had to break something and put it back together and then it's worth more. And I just kind of love that analogy. I love the. Okay, let's tell me what you really think. Like that's a really nice answer, but I really want to know what you're actually thinking.
Speaker 2:Now, that's beautiful and it sounds twisted to say I like hearing people's pain, but I get it. You like hearing it because you know that that is a huge step for them to tell you what their pain is, because then you can assist them in healing that pain. So that's amazing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I think also having someone to witness you without judgment. I mean, if you can think about the people in your life who can you actually be yourself with without feeling judged or evaluated, or they're not trying to fix you Like I can think of maybe one person for sure, and then the rest would be like maybe this person, maybe that person, so sometimes you don't have that in their life and I'm able to step in and be that person that they can feel really safe with.
Speaker 2:Well, I can already say thank you for doing what you do, and I'm sure that's on behalf of all of your clients. But before we get down to more serious business, let me ask you a few more lighthearted questions so we can get to know the Dr Ford a little bit better. What is your favorite super food? That's always my favorite question.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and so I'm going to throw a wrench into it, where I love all food which is such. It's not a caveat, it's not like let me get out of this question. I do truly believe that all food can provide value in some way, whether that be nutritive, physical, also emotional and spiritual and social. Food has so many components to it. In terms of foods that have nutrients, this is a hard one, I would probably. I love the diversity of quinoa. I think you can use quinoa in so many different capacities. I personally have a lot of indigestion with quinoa, but I love how it can be so diverse from breakfast to lunch to dinner. But I love when you're talking with people and they get to explore it. It's a really fun food.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's a fun thing to introduce people to it and they're like quinoa. What is this? That's what my husband calls it.
Speaker 1:He goes do not serve me that quinoa.
Speaker 2:Yes, dear. Okay, is there a favorite quote, short poem or music lyric that has positively influenced you that you'd be willing to share with us?
Speaker 1:So my initial response went to I love Albert Einstein and he says your imagination is your preview of life's coming attraction. And I think Albert Einstein was such a stud, Like he was such a scientist but also had a lot of soul, where, I mean, he's talking about something that you can't really prove, like you can't really prove someone's imagination, and humans are the only ones that have, like species that have, the gift of imagination. Animals don't. They're very present, but we can actually like close our eyes and like go somewhere else, and we can do that to our dismay. But we also can do it in a very creative way where you can like dream of something and make it happen. But I think a lot of times people get stuck, where you dream of something and then you get stuck or you don't know how, which I know is a big theme of what we're going to talk about today. But yeah, so I like that quote.
Speaker 2:Nice, I like that too. That's really good. Do you have another health promoting book, documentary, influencer or another podcast to recommend to us?
Speaker 1:I'm going to be selfish and promote my book, which isn't even ready yet, but it's going to be coming out, hopefully in 2024. I'm co-authoring it with another physician who spent his career in addiction and rehab, and so it's called you and food and it's a different take. It's not going to be a what to eat, it's more of how to eat. So I'm going to promote that. And then I just discovered a podcast called maintenance phase. It's definitely a little can be crass, a little rough around the edges, but it's two people talking about kind of culture within the diet industry. So I just discovered it and I really did, like my first experience. I've listened to one podcast. So take that with a grain of salt.
Speaker 2:Awesome. I love those recommendations. I love checking out new podcasts, but I also love that you mentioned your book, because we're going to keep a close eye on that, because it sounds awesome to me and you're going to have to keep us posted on when that becomes fully available.
Speaker 1:I think the whole world's going to know, don't worry, but yes.
Speaker 2:Okay, dr Ford. Well, let's get down to some serious business here. We have a lot of good things to talk about today, and I think you and I have a lot in common in what we do in our belief system. As you know, I'm all about helping folks heal and stay healed naturally, especially those who have chronic illness or disease, and a big part of that is encouraging a healing diet that focuses on eating real, whole, nourishing foods and, by doing so, shunning non-real foods that are not conducive to healing, like highly processed or ultra-processed foods, foods with added refined sugar, chemicals and preservatives, etc.
Speaker 2:But what I've heard many times is that a big thing, or the thing that gets in the way of people who are trying to change their diet into a healing diet, is addiction, food addictions, sugar and highly processed food addictions, to be specific and that really derails them over and over. So in thinking about this problem that I keep coming across with people, I'm realizing more and more that many of these foods are literally designed to be addictive, so it's no wonder that people have a hard time not eating them and giving them up. I'm really curious to know what are your thoughts on all of this and what are your recommendations for people who are in this situation, who are ready and willing to do whatever it takes to truly heal from their chronic disease or illness, but are just struggling with these addictions?
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, so this is, I mean, what a loaded question, or like where to start. So I think if you kind of look at the topic, you have different layers. You have the food itself, the physical properties of the food and you had mentioned. You know they're designed to increase palatability consumption. You know the purchasing of them. I mean, there's so much that goes into food marketing and food politics so you could really live in that land or that conversation for a really, really long time.
Speaker 1:Marion Nestle is a fabulous author and she wrote a book a while ago called Food Politics. I'm guaranteed she has several more out there which really opened my eyes in the business of food and I never thought, I mean, this was what year are we in? This was 20 years ago where we still were in like a food pyramid and not a plate, you know. So it's just so many different things in politics. And then the nature of food, how it's designed, where you know the Cheeto or things that have like a back crunch and then the poof where they kind of disappear. Yeah, that's designed in such a way where it's so pleasurable and we continue to consume. So it's a brilliant marketing scheme. I mean, if you look at it. Their goal is to make a profit. They're doing a really, really good job. Their goal is not necessarily health. So you kind of have to look at it's not necessarily like the food isn't doing anything wrong, per say, it's making money, and that's the whole point of why it exists. So I don't think we want to live in that land. I mean, you can talk about the different qualities of food, but one of my favorite is OK, humans. They're the ones that have the brains and they're the ones that get to decide what to buy and how to eat it.
Speaker 1:And there's so many layers of why and how people choose food. So one is habit. They've just done it for so long and they don't even think about it. Like, if you think about, you know habits that I have in my life. One of the first things I do in the morning is I really like to brush my teeth. If I don't brush my teeth, I can tell and, but I don't think about it. I don't think, OK, in five minutes I'm going to brush my teeth, I'm going to take this toothbrush, I'm going to. You know, I just I've been doing it for so long. It's a habit and so sometimes that's food. For some people, they have eaten certain foods, certain types of coffee, certain types of creamer for so long they don't think about it, they don't have to measure it, it's just autopilot. So a lot of times you're up against habits, and habits are very hard to break unless there's enough motivation and that can be a topic in itself or there's enough pain, or there's enough inspiration, you know kind of whatever.
Speaker 1:When someone is ready to change, they're aware and they're they are ready to change, Then there's OK, how am I going to do that? So who buys the food in the house? Who prepares the food? Do they have access to the food? And then, when they're eating the food, how is their eating environment? Who is their support system? What is their digestion like? What is actually happening in the body after they eat it? And then, is all of this sustainable for long term? We didn't even talk about finances, we didn't even talk about spirituality. So there's so many different factors on what you eat and how you eat it, and can you do it for healing purposes. It's so hard to say okay, well, why am I addicted to food? What's the answer? It's like oh gosh, it's so different for everybody, right? But I do think there are two different directions. We could go as we could talk about the food or we could talk about the person's experience with said food. So that's a really long answer for to start with.
Speaker 2:So you're telling us there's no simple and straightforward Right? No, that's what I'm getting from that. Yeah, okay.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I don't think there is a. Okay, let me give you the money answer, or else you know I would be sitting on a jackpot full of money because I had the answer to food right. Then there's pharmaceuticals, like what medications are you on that's gonna affect the foods that you're having, are you taking you know? So there's oh gosh, I could enter like five more factors in here that would affect your relationship with food.
Speaker 2:So if we just searing in I love what you phrased as the crunch and poof yeah, the cheeto like crunch and poof. Yes, that's exactly what that is, Because it's not, you know. I mean you hear sugar addiction all the time, but it's also salt and crunch addiction and just like that thing that processed food, highly processed foods, give us that you don't necessarily get in a banana or a carrot. You know carrots crunch a little bit but it's not the same. So if we're searing in on just that, in terms of being addicted to that crunch and poof or that sweet flavor, I mean, what is a good first step?
Speaker 2:And this is assuming, let's just assume, for the sake of argument, that we're talking about a person who has a support system, who has financial means, has the desire. They have their why, which is something that I talk about a lot so they have. They're motivated either by pain, like you said, or by just a strong desire to heal or to get off medications, or ideally, both. For that person who's just struggling with the plain and simple, I can't stop eating these foods because I'm craving them. Very generally, what is going, what is potentially going on with that person and what can help them?
Speaker 1:So addiction is fascinating and I've learned a lot with my co-author. There's definitely a process in the brain and this was his idea. It's in our book but it's called drives and decides. There's the drive to eat. There's this we actually have the need to eat. We are driven to eat by hunger, by different hormones there is, you know, there's so many things that go into I'm hungry, I'm deciding to eat. Now the decides is okay, what am I gonna eat and how much? And then you actually have to engage in the behavior. It's very dualistic. You either eat it or you don't, and so what goes into that actual decides? The food addiction part of me would I got when you were.
Speaker 1:I was like picturing this person in my head. I was like I would wanna know what is the experience like for them as they're eating it. What are they tasting? What memories pop up? What are they feeling?
Speaker 1:If you look at the sense of taste, we have five senses we see, we hear, we touch, we smell, we taste. It's such a powerful sense and even when we went through the pandemic it was fascinating. When people lost their taste buds, they lost their sense of taste, they lost their smell, they didn't wanna eat anymore. It was like the desire, the drive to eat was gone, and it was. They lost the sense and I got really curious about it. In all the research, if you look at, the number one reason people eat is for taste, and so it's this sense that sometimes we lose our connection to. So when I was thinking of all the factors they're controlled for okay, why would someone feel like they're addicted to food? I would really wanna understand what's happening in your experience when you have the crunch and poof. What is that like for you? And there's always a connection to in my experience, to a childhood experience, or this sense of like bliss that they're trying to avoid this pain. There is something happening and the brain does two things it avoids pain or wants pleasure, and so it's just creating awareness that this crunch and poof is a pleasurable experience. Are they willing to delay that pleasurable experience? And you have to have a pleasurable experience, similar. You can't just take away the pleasure that is gonna be. I mean, you can do it for a little while, but then eventually you're gonna say, okay, I just gotta have the crunch and poof. What else can you do that is similar to this pleasure? Can we teach you how to do it. Can you withstand a little bit of this? It's gonna feel painful to not have it like this comforting. Can we do something else?
Speaker 1:My time with when I worked with a bariatric surgeon, there was a lot of actually grief work with I'm grieving that I'm not gonna be able to have this food after surgery and it was actually really fascinating. We had actually with one client I'm giggling because it sounds like funny in nature and we grieved their relationship to cake, we grieved their relationship to Cheetos, whatever, where it was like I'm saying goodbye to this and I'm letting it go. And it was actually going through the grief process because they knew they loved it but they wanted to let it go to continue on their health journey. When I'm working with chronic illness clients who are suffering from chronic illness, there's sometimes this grief of what has been. Grief of I wanna be able to enjoy the foods that I used to. Grief of. I don't wanna accept that. This is my reality right now. So I'm just gonna keep going and keep being in pain. And so it's a lot of navigating how they're feeling about it, which stems from thoughts, which stems from belief, which is where I like to live.
Speaker 2:So, even if you have a why sometimes well, not sometimes you still need willpower. Willpower is still going to be involved. You can have a why. You can have every reason in the world for why you need to change the way you eat. It may be literally to save your life, but that still involves willpower, and what I'm hearing you say is for people who are truly addicted to the foods that they want to let go of. There's actually a grief process involved.
Speaker 1:Instead of willpower. Like holding onto something so tightly because eventually you get tired, think of it as more of a surrender. And I lost my father a year ago and this just naturally, organically, came up. Like if you're holding onto something for so long, it's really hard to let go. And so it's this surrender of like, okay, I'm willing to let it go, and that makes me sad and that makes me, oh, I have to feel that I'm so, not my father, but if you're going through like chronic illness, I'm really sad that I have this and that's okay.
Speaker 1:Like both can happen. Like in therapy sometimes they'll say like two truths can happen at the same time. Like I can be sad that this is my reality and this is my reality. What can I do to move forward? So it's like both and. But sometimes people aren't willing to let go of that food. It means too much, it's too valuable. They think if they let go they can't move on. And so it's just finding perspective in that, where the food will always be there but you don't have to interact with it if you don't want to.
Speaker 2:So I guess the term comfort food what I'm going to say is it's real, oh yeah, that's more than just a term. Like it really, like people, legitimately, you said, if you connect it to childhood memories and when you say that is it like, oh, my grandmother used to make this, or my mom would make it every Christmas, what does it mean?
Speaker 1:Right, it's different for everybody. I've heard stories where, you know, I had one client who hated a certain dish. She hated it. It was so disgusting. So it was just kind of like, okay, well, what does that feel like to you? What does that taste like? And actually what it was was an experience, a reminder of an experience, where she was forced to sit at the table to eat this dish. I can't exactly remember what the dish was, but she would sit there for hours. She was a kid and she was made to sit at this table for like six to eight hours and she couldn't leave the table until she finished this food.
Speaker 1:But I mean, this girl is strong-willed. She put her heels in the ground, she sat there for eight hours and people were living their life and going on ignoring her and you know, as a mom, you think what that war child up and that is a form of abuse, that's a form of neglect, and so she learned to hate this food. Now, that's not comforting, that's more. You know, distaste Sounds like discomfort. Her story, right, Her story in her mind was well, I don't like any food because of this horrible experience she had.
Speaker 1:So comfort, it could be related to anything. It could be related to. You know, this is what my dad loved and I loved my dad. This is what, you know, my brother and I had when our parents got into a big fight and that made me feel good. So sometimes we're not aware that that's what that is until you have the space to explore that a little bit. And a lot of times it's just asking someone well, what does that taste like to you? What does that feel like to you? It's the experience of the Cheeto. What is it about the Cheeto to you that is so enjoyable and it's different for everybody, which is the fun part for me.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I bet it's like an interesting investigation every time.
Speaker 1:It is as a dietitian. People always just want to be told what to do. I don't know how many times people have said oh, I don't really care, just tell me what to do. The problem is is you haven't done any of the underlying work, so you'll do the what for a little while, but then you're going to go back to what you actually want to do, not what the other person is telling you to do so if you really want to make this a lifestyle change, you do have to look at what are your beliefs, what are you thinking about it, how are you feeling about it?
Speaker 1:That will help the change to be a true change and not just like a six week thing.
Speaker 2:It seems to all just come back to that. What is your why? What is that driving force behind why you want to do this and why you are doing this? Because these are going to be harder than others.
Speaker 1:Some meals are going to be harder than others, so yeah, and so if you think about, like, when people have a life scare, they like a heart attack or something that you know like a near death experience. That is so motivating because it's painful, it's scary, and so that kick starts it. And then you start to see, if people don't actually look at their, the why would be okay. What do I believe about it? What, how do I think about it? What are my emotions about it? Sounds like if you're able to navigate that, then that scare was the ignition to change.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I've seen people who've come in here and said, well, my doctor says I have to be in here because I just had a heart attack. The why is they're here is because someone else is telling them what to do. They actually don't want to do it. Yeah, yeah, a lot of times we're in session and I'll be like do you actually want to be here? And there's no judgment. They'll think, no, I don't want to do this. And I'm like okay, awesome, like, how does that feel to say and just to own that you don't have any intrinsic desire to do?
Speaker 1:this on your own, and I think you're right. It's like, okay, well then don't do it. Yeah, yeah, they want to do it, yeah.
Speaker 2:It sounds funny to say this, but I feel fortunate now that my situation was dire enough that I had my instant why I wanted to survive and I didn't want to get horribly sick again and I was out of my horrible flair that I was in for a year. I was in remission but I was faced with it was time to. I needed to come off the immunosuppressant drugs. So that threat of, as soon as I came off those drugs, getting sick again was right there and there was my why it was. It was naturally presented to me as as a gift. Yeah, because that beginning of the healing journey is is hard and having a really solid why I think is absolutely essential if you're going to be really successful.
Speaker 1:Well, and it's almost. It sounds like you have so much like for lack of a better word, I'm just going to say trauma from that, like near death experience. You're like I'm not even going to entertain not doing this, I'm not even going to entertain not living this way, right, it wasn't going to think about it, yeah.
Speaker 1:You feel like I don't even have the choice, right when with people are still navigating that crunch and poof, the choice is still there. It's like, well, I've gotten away with it before, so I can still do it. And I like to call those types of thinkers like diet rebels, like they like to kind of play with fire a little bit. And so it's, it's a skill, it's a, it's a superpower almost, because they're willing to think outside the box, they're willing to be very creative, and so it's really trying to say, okay, well, if you, you know, you don't like rules that don't make sense, let's come up with your own rules, you know, let's come up with your own diet. And they think, oh, okay, all right, well, I'll do it, I'll do it. Then they just don't want to be told what to do necessarily.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's a lot harder when you don't have a serious situation, but that doesn't mean you can't come up with a really solid why that's gonna motivate you and drive you, even if it's not Life or death literally. So it's. It certainly can be done. It's just a little bit of a harder path. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Well, even in entrepreneurship, they'll say no. You're why? Because when, like, business is hard, you know, are you still gonna show up to work or whatever? And I like thinking about like you know business or you know diet can be the goal. And then the dream is time with your family. I mean, like I don't think your dream is to have the perfect diet dream is to survive and have time with your family, but not survive, but thrive, right, you don't want to feel like crap spending time with your family. The diet is a goal, it's just the vehicle to get you there. And so sometimes I think, when people put Dieting and health on this pedestal as the dream, like I'm really thinking when you're on your deathbed you're not gonna be. Like I'm so glad I ate quinoa, but the quinoa got you to 96 years old where you did have a full right.
Speaker 2:I'm glad we circled back around to quinoa. Yeah, that was good, okay. So Taking a step back and thinking about everything we've talked about so far, it's just further evidence of the mind, body, spirit connection. It's just all connected. We can't truly heal and stay healed from chronic illness or disease Without looking at the entire picture, even when it comes to just stopping eating Crunching poof, right.
Speaker 1:I have a client. She has horrible IBS and she has done everything by the book and flares just keep happening and keep happening. And so she, we're working together to just really explore what's going on underneath her, her psyche, kind of what is she believing about? The food Comes, come, come of it. She was navigating a lot of grief with some loss, with some infertility, and so she needed space to release that.
Speaker 1:She's at a space now where she's starting to realize, oh, dairy, I thought maybe okay, maybe that was just me being really restrictive, let me try it. She's like oh no, dairy is definitely causing flares, like so she's in this kind of exploring phase, but it's coming from a really intuitive place. Versus, I've got to throw away all my donuts, I've got to throw all, all like away all the Cheetos. It's let me try it and let me actually figure out what is working for me now and a lot of times what works today is going to be different tomorrow, when you're in that exploring phase. So it's really almost like AA. You just take one day at a time, like the Serenity prayer, and I, you know, just surrender to this is what's my journey right now, and take it one day at a time.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think for me a lot of the times. My goal is just to you, get people to start paying closer attention and just being more mindful, because I think a big part of the problem is we don't take the time to just Sit and think about what we're eating. And then how do we feel an hour later or the next day? And I think, our body I Believe that our body is constantly trying to communicate with us, which is not Always open and ready to hear what it has to say.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I love that. So think like listening, listening, like if I'm listening to you I can't do anything else. I can't multitask. I mean you can, but it means that I'm not really listening to you, nor my present with if someone was in this room and so listening to your body, you can't multitask, you can't do both. The brain isn't set up that way.
Speaker 1:So in order to pay attention, is you do have to be quiet and you do have to have some introspection and you do have to sometimes ask yourself the hard questions, which is so hard, and our culture, where everybody has an opinion about nutrition and Health and even, like you and I have navigated this for so long, but everybody else has, like there's just so much information and so I obviously don't know everything, you don't know everything, but we have something to offer and do we have something to offer for you? If you're listening, where you know, what can you take and then apply that to your journey. Whenever I've worked with health professionals and they think they know everything and they think they have the answer for everybody, I'm always very cautious, because that's it's, that's very arrogant and it's very like wait a minute, how, how, how can you possibly think that one way of eating or one Product or one potion works for everybody, like that's. That's crazy, yeah, and it's not logical. So I would be very cautious with those types of marketing.
Speaker 2:Yeah, bio individuality is. Yeah, it's a big word with a big meaning and it's for me personally. There are some things that I believe are gonna be beneficial for everybody. When it comes to the general stuff, yes, but once you dig a little deeper, yeah, everybody's body is different. Everybody's gut flora is different. Everybody's past and emotional issues and trauma, yeah, different. Everybody's spiritual experience is different, and it's just. I 100% agree with you. There is no, unfortunately, there is no one-size-fits-all approach to this, which is why I think it's so important to be listening to a lot of different thoughts and opinions and, like you said, taking away those nuggets that Really sink in, because the ones that hit you the hardest are probably the ones that you need to be thinking about the most. Right, I know it works.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I was. So I have my own kind of mentor and coach and he was telling me something and I was like, oh, I don't like that and it's like dang it. That means I probably be paying attention. Yeah, and I think also there was another position I loved following. I can't remember. I have to his name will come up that he is a specialist in obesity management and he will say Take a good look at the culture that you're in.
Speaker 1:And we literally can't like if someone said, oh, change your culture, I can't, I can't do that overnight. That's like changing where I live, who I hang out with, like that's a. I mean you could, I could get up and leave, but I'm not going to because I anyway. Your culture has a huge effect on the choices that you eat. If everyone around you is eating fast food, it's so hard not to eat it because everyone around you is doing it, and so if you're really really wanting to change, for healing, it's gonna take a conversation or at least a community for support. Otherwise you're gonna get tired of being the only fish swimming against the grain. It will be just really You're fighting a big battle, going at it alone and we really can't do this life alone, so you're gonna want to find some support system if you're wanting this to be long-lasting, for sure.
Speaker 2:Yeah. I mean, I've heard that phrase so many different ways, like yeah, I'm out with three smokers and you'll be the fourth. Hang out with three drinkers and you'll be the fourth. You know it's just. Yeah, it's really really hard to fight and shout out to my husband who, from day one, has been just like completely and totally supportive. You know, from that first day when I said I got to change everything. I got to change everything and I'm ready to do it. Yeah, right on board with me. What? What about those folks who aren't in that situation? When you, when you say, change your, change your culture, change, change your network, what is that practically Look like? Or at least what are some practical steps that?
Speaker 1:it can be if you're home, like your immediate home, life is so different than what, what you had to live. Finding a support group, finding a community, whether that be a therapist or coach or practitioner we're so connected now on Either social media or, you know, the internet finding a safe community where they do support your goals, they do support what you're trying to do and You're you are not the only one going through this, I can guarantee. So. Finding other people that have are living, have lived what you've lived and can point you in a support group or direction. And that might take, you know, some digging around. It might take being vulnerable enough to share your story, being, you know, vulnerable enough to own that.
Speaker 1:This is something you are navigating, because hiding it or living in shame, that's like your ego being being very, very loud and so which I've done, everybody's done. So. Finding a space where you not feel like I think, the more and more I've worked, when you have group support, the biggest feedback is I didn't feel alone. I didn't, I was finally feeling like I'm not the only one going through this, and that feeling alone is very motivating. So if you're immediate family or the immediate people that you're with aren't supportive, go find a different room. Go find and maybe that is not a quick fix, it might take some time, but that is really really hard to change if your immediate support system is not going to support you enough.
Speaker 2:I mean, I'm just dreaming of a perfect world where, if you're in that situation and you still go out and find your supportive community and then your immediate family is seeing how much healthier and happier you are, you're going to convert them over to healthier habits themselves.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean, I think sometimes that happens just by nature and sometimes it doesn't, where it depends upon, I guess, the relationship, if it's a child growing up and then they can move out, if it's spousal. That's really really, really, really hard and sometimes having those conversations of I don't feel supported. This is what I need to be supported. Are you willing to do that, having those conversations? And sometimes people say no and you are on your own. So I commend you if you are doing that. It's very hard.
Speaker 2:Yeah definitely the harder path. Yeah, all right. So I want to just go back in talking about the mind-body connection and when we talked about the idea of dealing with food addictions and facing them head on. There's a lot of going backwards and being more introspective about people's past and people's trauma, and you had mentioned grief. Are there other emotions that tend to come up when people look backwards in this way?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think, of trauma. So a lot of times when I work with addiction or hard relationships with food, there tends to be trauma, whether that be sexual trauma, neglect, abusive trauma. You know, just kind of trauma could be anything that the brain didn't expect. So it doesn't have to be we call it like big T, it doesn't have to be this textbook. I was burned at the stake, it could be a car accident, it could be something where you just didn't expect that coming.
Speaker 1:A lot of times in my practice with I work a lot with body image and weight. There was something happened early in their life where their weight or the shape of their body size was how they determine their worth as a person. And so in chronic illness I see a lot of emotional suppression. I see a lot of they weren't allowed to feel, no one has seen them before, and that's really common now in today's society, especially with kids who spend a lot of time on screens or their parents are busy on screens. The validation of just being a person is getting harder and harder and harder. One of the tools that I like to use in my office and this feels kind of like tarot cards, but it's not tarot cards A lot of times we'll spend time and I'll ask someone, okay, how does that food make you feel?
Speaker 1:Or how does that something with food, body weight or eating, how does that make you feel? And people will tell me a story, rather than an experience, and I'll say, okay, great, thank you for the story. Tell me how it feels, what's the temperature of what you're feeling, where are you feeling it? And a lot of times, like people don't get it, like it's like, wait what I'm asking you to? Just tell me what you're feeling in your body. And when people get there they'll say, oh, my gosh, I was feeling anxious.
Speaker 1:I was feeling anxiety is a big one with food out of fear, fear that the food is going to cause harm, especially with gut, because the gut is changing constantly, and they're afraid. If I have this, I'm going to be in pain for the next six days. And the hardest part about that is anxiety decreases the digestive process and it also decreases a hunger cue. So here you are now, exposed to this food in real time and in like two seconds, your body and your brain get this whole message of fear. So now I'm not hungry, now my digestion sucks and I haven't even eaten anything and it's a, it's a Cheeto, so the Cheeto isn't going to really help digestion anyway. So you see a lot of fear, angst, kind of nervousness, so you think, a lot of emotions that cause distress, a lot of emotions that will disrupt, kind of the homeostasis. When you're experiencing positive emotions, we typically feel more calm, typically not all the time. There are some, like histrionic, where positive emotions cause disruption too, but with chronic illness usually it's emotional suppression or a lot of fear.
Speaker 2:Yeah, wow, that's really interesting. I think it's safe to say that anyone who has a chronic illness, really it's really important for them to really look at their emotional health and any trauma from their past. By the way, for all the reading and studying that I've done on trauma, I don't think I've ever heard it distilled down to the way you, just to what you just said. Trauma is anything that the body didn't expect. Yeah, you said yeah, so think wow.
Speaker 1:It could be. Even I had. I was in my office and I work sometimes alone. Someone had come in I didn't expect and it totally scared me and I didn't feel safe and I was like, oh my gosh, that affected me for like the next four or five hours now. Did it disrupt the rest of my day? It wasn't PTSD trauma, but it definitely. I wasn't expecting that to happen and I definitely showed up differently in sessions with clients because it was okay. Is that going to happen again? Is that guy going to come back?
Speaker 1:If you have experienced abuse or any of that kind of interaction with someone where you didn't feel safe, or if that continued on and no one validated that, oh my gosh, you know that's going to be navigating so much and so this sounds really kind of, you know, trite.
Speaker 1:But Grey's Anatomy I can't believe I'm bringing this up brings up. They do a lot of when they bring up, like when they bring in like trauma therapists and things. When they have these insane things happen. It's really kind of fun how they navigate it, or I always love listening to the conversation because it's allowing the person to explain what's happened to them and how they react to it in a really safe way and we don't like I mean, I'm not Ellen Pompeo, I don't get that. You know direct experience. And so or you're in a society where they don't validate it right. They're like, oh just, you're fine, move on, pull up your bootstraps, get over it. You know there's be tougher hustle forward, move forward, just kind of all of that type of language and it's like well, wait a minute let's just sit down and like what happened to you and I see that that happened to you and I'm here with you.
Speaker 1:One of my favorite movies have you seen Little Miss Sunshine? No, I haven't, oh, okay, well, that's your homework, I won't spoil it. But there is a part of the movie where this character really has some horrible news and everyone's trying to make him feel better and give him a pep talk. But what actually creates him to move forward is this little girl. I don't know how old she is, maybe eight or nine. She just sits next to him and she says nothing. But she sits next to him and she just puts her arm around him and she goes.
Speaker 1:You know she's nods and you can tell she like doesn't even know what to say, but it's just like silence. It's just someone sitting with you and then he says, okay, I'll get up now, Like it was that he didn't need anything, but just someone to witness what he was going through. And I think when you're navigating chronic illness, you need someone to just say like, yeah, this, this really sucks and I don't have a fix it, I don't have anything, this just really really sucks and I'll sit here with you till you're ready.
Speaker 2:Which is awesome because you know, speaking from experience, when you're going through the worst of it with chronic illness, you are focused on the physical aspect of being sick, obviously, and it's. It may even feel like I don't have the energy to do any emotional introspection or work right now, but you probably don't. It sounds like you got to dig deep and find, find a little energy to do that. I mean. Well, I think anatomy has taught us anything, as you said.
Speaker 1:It was about to come out of my mouth, I was like am I really going to say this? I think it's when you're in survival mode. The body doesn't know the difference between physical exhaustion, emotional exhaustion. It's just exhaustion. So you might not have capacity. When I was working at a higher level of care, when you had people who were so as mostly anorexia and bulimia, they were medically not safe and they were no energy. They couldn't do any processing. The brain didn't have any energy to do it. So you had to wait until they were a little bit more medically stable and then you started to realize, okay, they have some space to process now. So I wouldn't say in the hospital is a time to be like, okay, let's dig deep, yeah, Right, but eventually and it doesn't have to be this big emotional process it can be simple and it can be light and easy and gentle, but someone to validate your experience is a big deal for sure.
Speaker 2:Well, you're amazing. This has been fantastic, and I can say with certainty that you have provided a lot of really good takeaways for people today. So I want to thank you for what you do and thank you for being here. Are you accepting new clients at this time?
Speaker 1:Yeah, so well. First, thank you so much for giving me the space. I think these are always. It's really fun and I really enjoy talking with you and yes, short answer accepting new clients, and it's really easy to get in contact with me. I'm pretty available on my website and then you can schedule a time with me yourself or give me a ring. My phone number is there. Email. I have a free like a debrief where you kind of take an assessment that looks at your patterns of thinking, and then I get a notification that you did and we talk about it for free, so it's not anything you have to pay upfront and then we just navigate. If I am best fit to serve you, then there would be an investment, but not initially.
Speaker 2:Awesome and give us your website again.
Speaker 1:So wwwdoctordr and then patriciafordwellnesscom. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Okay, and we'll put it. It'll be in the show notes as well, so people can just find a link there. Yeah Well, will you come back, because I already I've just I've taken so much of your time and there's so much more that I want to talk to you about, so we'll get back to you again, okay.
Speaker 1:So this is the cool part is you really have so much like which way do we want to go today? Okay, let's turn left. Okay, let's turn left. So, yeah, I would love to. I'd be honored, awesome.
Speaker 2:Thank you so much, and we'll do it again soon.
Speaker 1:Yeah, thank you.
Speaker 2:Okay, friends, I hope you enjoyed this conversation with Dr Ford as much as I enjoyed having it with her. I love the freedom that a podcast provides, where you don't have to stay on script. You can go off script and touch on a variety of topics, which we definitely did that in this episode. So thank you for joining. If you received value from this podcast today, I would appreciate it so much if you would subscribe to the show and also download the episode and share it with anyone who you think may find value in it as well. Much appreciated, and please reach out to Dr Ford If you're interested in learning more about her services. We'll include her website info in the show notes. Thanks again for listening and thanks again to Dr Ford for joining us today as we heal and stay healed together.