Music In My Shoes
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Music In My Shoes
E102 Chatting with Johnny Hickman of 'Cracker'
A band doesn’t thrive for thirty plus years by accident. Guitarist/Singer and cofounder Johnny Hickman opens up about the simple pact that kept Cracker alive—stay the course, skip the drama, and serve the song. We dig into how he and David Lowery decide who sings what, which ideas belong to Cracker versus solo projects, and how rotating players and richer arrangements kept the sound evolving without losing its soul.
Johnny shares the heart of their identity as a conversation between his signature riffs and David’s singular voice, a push-pull that lets them morph styles while staying unmistakably Cracker. From the pressure to follow Kerosene Hat with more of the same to choosing strings, keys, and pedal steel instead, he explains how ignoring trends led to a fan favorite. We swap notes on Tom Petty and Mike Campbell’s riff-to-song alchemy, why Boys of Summer proves genre lines are flimsy, and how great songs outlast scenes and labels.
Community threads through everything: Camp In and Camp Out’s curated nights and those joyous, glitchy “Live from the Cave” streams that carried fans through lockdown. Johnny previews a Halloween return on his public page “Johnny from Cracker,” complete with costumes and sly covers alongside Cracker staples.
Hit play for candid stories behind I Hate My Generation, Loser, and the band’s onstage philosophy: play the hits proudly, let the deep cuts breathe, and keep the room connected. If Cracker ever sound like your favorite band, Johnny says, you’ll bring friends—and that’s exactly how this family keeps growing. Enjoy the conversation, share it, and subscribe so you don’t miss the celebration and more.
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Hey, this is Johnny Help from Cracker. You're listening to music in my shoes.
SPEAKER_01:Hey everybody, this is Jim Boge, and you're listening to Music in My Shoes. That was Vic Thrill kicking off episode 102. As always, I'm thrilled to be here with you. Let's learn something new or remember something old. One of my favorite bands over the last 30 plus years is Cracker. Jimmy, let me tell you something. They have so many great songs. Yeah. Teen Angst, What the World Needs Now, Low, Get Off This, You're a Transhad Girl, I Ride My Bike, I Hate My Generation. I mean, what great song titles, don't you think?
SPEAKER_05:Yeah, yeah, good stuff.
SPEAKER_01:Seven Days, Almond Grove, Where have Those Days Gone, and just so many more. I can't even talk about all the great songs they really have. Well, we are lucky enough to have guitar singer Johnny M. F. Hickman of Cracker joining us from Colorado. And when I say MF, I mean Johnny, my friend Hickman. Hello, Johnny, and welcome to Music in My Shoes.
SPEAKER_00:Welcome. Thank you. It's a pleasure to be with you guys.
SPEAKER_01:We really do appreciate you taking the time. And, you know, I really want to get into this. I love the band Cracker, you know, since the first time that I heard them. And when I say them, I mean you. And it is so great to be able to hear a band still in 2025 as we're ending the year and getting ready to go into 2026, that you guys are still relevant and still selling out places and still putting on excellent shows. And, you know, how is it that you're able to do that, but so many bands were not able to?
SPEAKER_00:I don't know. I think uh David and I, and my partner in Cracker, when we started the band, we said uh we did we discuss it. We'd both been in a few bands before we in on our own before we put this band together. You know, he had camper Van Beethoven, and we'd known each other for oh nine or ten years at that point. And uh we made a decision if we get this launched, if we get it off the ground, let's just stay the course, let's not break up over the usual bullshit that uh bands break up over and you know, a girlfriend or you know, whatever crazy nonsense. And so we've done it, we've stayed the course. And uh yeah, we started talking about putting a band together in 1992. Uh, and here we are, you know, all these years later, 36, 37 years later. And uh yeah, I think uh there are a lot of little secrets to that, some of which are that uh David and I we both you know do other projects too. We do our solo work, we put out solo records, and um and there have been a lot of members in and out of cracker over the years, but David and I sort of being the core, you know, um that's just the way we've operated, and we're very, very lucky we're still going.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, definitely still going. So let me ask you about that. You talk about doing some side projects. When you or David are writing something, do you think, uh, you know what, this is something good for Cracker, or maybe this is something I should do solo, or should I do, you know, what is it, the Dalton Dalton Hickman gang? Hickman-Dalton gang?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, we have our little side projects. Um, yeah, it kind of goes that way. Um, you know, David and I, when we write, uh occasionally one of the two of us will write a song and realize, wow, this this is this should be the other guy. You know, David will write one. I think this is a Johnny song. I think you should sing it. Or I've, you know, over the years I've written a few songs and said, nah, David should sing this one. I think that's part of our part of our secret, is like really just listening to a piece of music and thinking about what it where where is its home, you know, which band, which uh, you know, which group does it go to? And it's just uh, you know, it's just been been a really fun challenge. And the other thing is we, you know, there've been a lot of we've had a lot of people in and out of the band over the years, and that kind of keeps it fresh, you know. Right. Our current lineup's been together for a little while. Um Carlton Owens on drums and and Brian Howard on bass is sort of our core rhythm section, and David and I on guitar, each on guitar and vocals. We also have Ann Harris, who is our violinist from uh from Chicago, and she is just a fabulous performer and incredible talent. So this lineup is just fantastic, but it it it you know it morphs as we go. You know, we do certain David and I were just talking last night about the fact that uh it's coming up on a big anniversary for our album The Golden Age, which was our third album, and uh it's it's sort of David's favorite and my favorite too. It's a lot of fans' favorite too. Uh, and we're gonna we're gonna have uh put the put a band together to do shows uh with featuring the golden age. Um and uh it's a little bit of a different that album was a little bit of a departure for us in that uh you know the first two albums are basically the four-piece sound, but with the golden age, we uh added strings and we added some you know different kinds of backing vocals and keyboard and pedal steel. We went a little wider on that one. So to reenact it live, we're gonna have to hire some other musicians, which is fine. We love doing that anyway. We always like to sort of stir it up and keep the band fresh.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I have to be honest, the Golden Age is my favorite cracker album. And when I joined one of the Facebook groups, the the Cracker Crumbs, it asked the question, you know, what's your favorite album or your favorite song or something? And I talked about that album just because it wasn't as commercially successful as you know previously, but it is a hell of an album. It is so good. I mean, every single song is fantastic. And brother, you're welcome. I mean, it truly, truly is. And you know, it gets you know kicked off with I hate my generation, which is just you know, David just screaming from the top of his lungs at times, and you on the guitar just playing it like there's no tomorrow. And I mean, I love that. And at times when that came out, I did hate my generation. So I I kind of understood a little bit about it. And that's exciting that you're looking at doing uh some shows based on that because I really do love that album.
SPEAKER_00:Oh, thank you so much. Yeah, we were talking about it uh just yesterday and last night. Um, if we're gonna do this, we've got to do it right. So we're really gonna do it. We're gonna do it in springtime. We're gonna do uh probably perform the whole album at our our camp in. You know, we have camp out out in the desert. We have camp in in Athens, Georgia, every year. And Camp In is our little festival at the 40-watt. We hold it at the 40-watt uh club in uh in Athens, and we talked about it, and yeah, it was an interesting time for us. The first album did well. You know, it's it's it's almost a curse. If your first album does really, really well, then you then you gotta follow it up. Where do we go from here? Uh, with David and I, our first album, you know, the self-titled debut, Cracker, which all the fans call brand, because it says cracker brand on there. We sort of made it look like a like a like a food, the artwork, right? Uh a food product or something, cracker brand. So people call it brand. Um, that came out and did respectively well. Um it had uh the hit Teen Angst, which became a number one song on on uh college radio and indie indie radio at the time. And uh you know, it did well for us, and uh songs got placed in in films and all kinds of good things. I mean, it wasn't gigantic, but it did respectively well. And then a year later we followed it up with kerosene hat, which was even bigger, you know, it had the hits low and get off this, and it really got get us even more traction. So um for the third album, we didn't want to make kerosene hat Mach 2, you know. We said, well, let's let's let's follow our muse here. What are we gonna do? So we made a decidedly sort of grunge was the big thing at the time, you know. Uh big heavy grunge, you know, to you know, sometimes I don't like to throw a hang a title on a style of music or a you know, a genre or what have you. But that's sort of what was happening, right? Um sort of a raw guitar sort of band, sort of time, bands like Pearl Jam and Nirvana and and uh where had been really making headway, which was great. I mean, we were and we're connected to that in some way. We are a guitar band, but we go a little broader because we put in our country influences and our punk rock influences and uh so forth. But with uh the golden age, we kind of uh started moving more toward kind of a glam sort of thing. It's it's that that album sonically reminds me of like mid-period, early mid-period Bowie or Roxy music or uh uh you know, it's just we kind of went in a different different direction. You know, we wanted to make it a little more produced and a little bit go a little broader. There's a lot of keyboard and piano on it, and you know, we keep morphing our band. You know, it's it's funny back in the day, and just in the business, people kind of call it the Steely Dan methods for, you know, right. You know, we don't sound like that band. It's basically two singer songwriters and other people and come come in and out of the band to create a new environment for each album or each tour, and and it's uh it's a fun challenge. But with the golden age, yeah, we kind of we kind of went in a little bit of a dick different direction. Um, so I don't think uh radio knew quite what to do with it. I don't know. Um, it was just a little bit sporadic, but as you know, uh we've discussed, I mean, it that it became a fan favorite. Uh the album did really well with the fans, and uh the reviews were generally very, very good. Uh, but it didn't at that time record sales still still sort of mattered and uh you know it did okay, but it didn't do what kerosene had it done. So of course in the industry they thought, oh wow, poor cracker, you know, they slipped. But we look back on it as a triumph. Uh David was telling me yesterday, he said, I think it's our best album. And I said, it's certainly one of my favorites, if not my favorite. I think it's a fantastic album. And we continue to change a little bit with each album, and somehow still that's that's the that's the trick, is to morph a little bit, change a little bit, it's still, but it still sounds like you. And uh with my guitar playing and the riffs, the kind of riffs I write, and the melodies I come up with, and David's supremely gifted lyrical skills. Um, it's always gonna sound like David and Johnny. It's always gonna sound like Cracker. Um, and uh so that it gives us a lot of create creative license to sort of move around with that. Uh because David has a he has a very unique voice.
SPEAKER_01:Yes. Uh but you have a very unique guitar also. You definitely know it's Johnny Hickman. There's no doubt about it.
SPEAKER_00:Thank you very much. Yeah, I think a long time ago, David sort of said, Yeah, that the the core of what we do is sort of the conversation between your guitar and what I'm singing, and that's sort of how we build our songs and sort of the way it presents. As David put it, he said, Yeah, there's here's here's how it goes. Johnny makes a big racket, you know, on the guitar. He does something, I talk some shit, he does that racket again, I talk more shit, and then we do it at the same time, and that's a cracker song over and out, which is an oversimplification, but it kind of gets at the shape of our approach, and I like that, you know. Well, thank you for that. I'm glad that I have a signature sound. You do thank you. I listened to myself on on the all our records, which uh of all of which I'm very proud of. Also, we're very proud of the fact that we've never put out a sucky, a crappy record, you know, they're all good, right? And they've all done respectively well in the fan base. No, I agree. Different, different uh favorites, though the fans have different favorites, but the golden age is a fave of a lot of people that sort of went, Wow, this is different than kerosene hat, and I like it, I think it's better was sort of the vibe. Um, but you know, it's a fickle business. Uh, you know, as as they as they say in The Godfather, this is what we've done, you know, you know, this is what we've chosen to do. This is the business we've chosen. Okay, you know, and uh so you got to ride it out. It's up, down, around, and repeatedly. Um, I personally feel very grateful uh to be have been in a band that's been together for 35 years, still, as you say, relevant. Thank you very much. We still have packed shows. Um, we're still garner new fans occasionally. We're the kind of band that if we're your favorite band, you take a you take a lot of pride in bringing your friends, bringing new people to the party. And uh it happens constantly at the shows where I'll see very familiar faces, and I'll go up and say hello to them. I'm very much, you know, that guy in the band. You know, I go hang with the fans and talk to them, form a bond with them. Um, and uh notice that they brought some new friends, and it might have been their first cracker show, and it's usually very, very positive. So, yeah, that's a good base to come from. And uh right now we're taking a little of a butt bit of a hiatus. Um, we've both been focused on doing some solo stuff, but we're already talking about hitting the road in the springtime, doing the the the uh reenactment of the golden age, if you will. But yeah, we'll probably hit it hard next spring and summer. We'll get out and tour again uh with whatever our lineup is at the time. And uh yeah, I mean, onward and upward, you know, we're not giving up yet.
SPEAKER_01:Oh, don't, don't. So back in 1996 when Golden Age came out, my girlfriend at the time was going to University of Georgia in Athens, and I would drive, it was just like probably a little bit more than two hours each way, and I would go drive to go see her, and I had like a a little eight-track boom box that I had on the front seat of my car, and I would put in the golden age, and I would just listen to it the whole way on the drive ride there and just learning all the words and singing it, and that was, you know, my trips to Athens and back from Athens. And, you know, you talked about, you know, camping. You know, I've I've had the ability to go the last couple of years, and it it is a wonderful thing that you guys do when you set it all up as, you know, one night it's kind of like you and David solo when you have someone open for you beforehand, and then the next night is a different lineup where you're doing some different things, and then the third night it's you know, cracker, but with another opener, and the fourth night, you know, is maybe the hits night, and it's just like really cool how you have everything, and it's just a lot of fun. And and to see some people that I wasn't familiar with, you know, different artists, and you know, getting to see Ike Riley was for me the first time, and I I really enjoyed him. I thought he was fantastic. And uh immediately I went and watched his documentary like uh two days later after uh camping. Like I just wanted to see it. I talked to his kids. It was just a fun time. And you know, the the thing about you, you know, I met you at at uh I met you in Murphy, North Carolina last year, actually. Okay. And I met you there, but I met you at Hendershot. Um, you did a solo performance after like a little meet and greet with Cracker. And you are so personable. You really truly are someone that goes and talks to everyone like everyone is just your equal and that you're no different than anybody else. And the only other person that I know that I can think of that's like that is Kevin Kinney of Driving and Crying. Now, I actually saw him a few weeks ago, and he said, Hey, who's coming up on the show? You know, who's some of the guests? And I was telling him, and it's like, hey, I like Johnny Hickman, tell Johnny I said hello. And I find it funny that the only person that I think is as personable as you is the guy that says, Oh, tell him I said hello. You know, if you look if you look on Facebook, Kevin Kinney.
SPEAKER_00:I think Kevin Kinney is a tremendous talent. And uh, yeah, we hang. You know, we're friends, we're good friends. Like I've I'm uh I've I've formed uh a friendship with with Kevin long ago. And uh I love driving and crying. I love Kevin's solo work, I loved uh, you know, Suntangled Angel Revival. Just oh, there you go. Just these fabulous projects things that he's done. I just think he's tremendous, which is kind of how we connected with Brian because Brian was part of that uh Suntangled album phase. Uh Brian and Gib Droll and other friends of ours. And you know, Larry and I like that that guy's pretty fantastic, man. And uh so we get Brian's been in the band for just you know a long, long time now. And uh, you know, this is how, you know, uh, in the best of situations, this is how our business works, you know, the way people become friends with one another and you know, side projects are inspired, and you jump in there and do them. Um I'm I'm I'm happy to hear your report of uh of camping and how we do it, how we shape it, you know. And uh from the get-go, I mean it was interesting when we started, when David and I started, um, you know, we did a couple of records and things were going tremendously well. And uh I know that uh camper man Beethoven had a slightly acrimonious breakup in the middle of a tour. They just burned themselves out, they broke up, and uh that was the last I sort of heard of it. And then suddenly David said, Yeah, I've been hanging out with the guys in camper. Um, and they as soon as they got back together, they started working on another record. I went, Wow, okay, well, cool. What am I gonna do? So I had a bunch of songs that could have ended up being cracker songs, so I made my first solo record, which is Palm Henge, which is 20 years old this year, and I'm gonna do a little celebration with that uh in the new year, uh, do a 20-year anniversary of that re-release of Palm Henge.
SPEAKER_02:Nice.
SPEAKER_00:Um, I was so fortunate. Palm Henge came out because David said, You're doing a solo record? I go, Yeah, you got you're in two bands, man. What do you think? I'm gonna just gonna sit around and wait. No. So, you know, I started working on Palm Henge and had all these incredibly talented people play on it. And it was a and uh I put it out myself, my own little imprint, Camp Stove Records, and uh you never know what's gonna happen. But uh uh Robert Christgow got a hold of it, who a lot of people in the business consider the dean of rock rock critics, you know, of rock journalists and writers. Uh he put uh Chris Gow's record guide. He puts out every this book, he put it out every year. He got a hold of it and gave it uh Voice's Choice and Village Voice, who he was writing for then. And people called him and said, Wow, this how'd you get how did he find it? How did you get that guy's attention? I don't know. Uh, word of mouth, you know, how it goes. And he gave it a sensational review. Uh, he did an article in Blender magazine of it too, and gave it uh, I think a B plus or something, and uh just really, really talked up the album. Um, he was the one critic that said he's it's a little bit of a concept album about the the the the the arc and the the slow decline of California, you know, where I where David and I are from. And at that particular time I was sort of saying goodbye to California and moving to Colorado, where I've been 20 years now. Um anyway, I put out I put out Palm Henge, put out a solo record, and it did remarkably well. Nobody expected it to. I remember David saying, Yeah, you just never know. Yeah, good luck. It's see how it goes. Boom, the reviews were just over the top great. Um, very happy to say. And the fans embraced it. Uh I sold a pretty good number of copies. So there we were, they were up and running. And then every every year or so, one of the two of us will put out uh a solo work, and we've been very fortunate. You know, David put out the Palace Cards and a couple of his solo records, which are pretty sensational. And when Camper reunited and put out uh uh uh New Roman Times, and it was a sensational record, and it got great reviews. You know, it's funny that David and I we sort of look at us we're a little too weird for the main mainstream, but the people who get us really, really get us, and I can't think of a better situation to be in, you know. Um because it can because I can go walk down to the store, and every once in a while, you know, whatever big city I'm in, I'll get, hey, Johnny F and Hickman, hey, hello. And I'll of course go say hello. You know, it startles me because I'm not used to being that recognizable, but occasionally it does happen. You know, I'll be out at a nightclub and people will come over and say hello and ask me to autograph something, and I can't think of a better career to have than that, you know?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, and you're lucky, as the song says. I uh that's a great song. I love the song Lucky. Um, I like friends, and and you know, it's funny when you're doing it, and then sometimes, you know, when you and David do it, or it's it's just a great song. Uh I love the words. Is there anything real about that song?
SPEAKER_00:You know, it's funny. You know, people listen to the song Friends, and rightfully, you know, assume oh, that he's he's talking about he and David. Um, when I started the song, I was I was hanging out with Patterson and Cooley from Drive By Truckers. I got on their bus one night after a show, and I think they're they're a fantastic band, fantastic human beings. I love those guys. And they they their sort story is very similar, you know, they've been friends since they were youngsters and have always worked and write written and created together. And so that's kind of what sparked it. But yeah, once I got in there and dug in, sure a pick. And it, you know, I've I've got a certain sense of humor, and uh I I kind of knew I couldn't I couldn't really lose with that opening line. I'd never sleep with your ex-girlfriend. Yes, even if she starts to flirt with me again, you know, it's just like what did he just say?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I mean it grabs your attention right from the start. There's no doubt about that.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, that's uh that I think that's a good thing to do, either with a riff or a line, you know. Like let David, he we does the he knows he he has that same sort of instinct. I offer I hate my generation, I offer no apologies. You know, right now that I've said it, I feel liberated. Yes. Oh, that's you know, it's funny you mentioned that song earlier. Um, we were just starting a tour, you know, back in the early days, Counting Crows was uh a little our little opening band for a lot of shows. Um, just this incredible talented young band. And even then, when they were just our little opening band, you know, Lowry and I are on the side of the stage, these guys are gonna blow up, I think. They're just so good. They got such great songs. So, and they eventually did, but uh, you know, um, you know, they would just I like I like that we are able to do that, you know, with our friends and for people and uh like Ike Riley, he deserves to blow up bigger than he is. So let's let's do shows with Ike, you know, let's do shows with Jim Dalton, you know. And I hooked Jim Dalton up with Roger Klein, and he's been in Roger Klein and the Peacemakers for years now. You know, I got to be matchmaker there. And I love that about the way that Larry and I operate. We both are are this way where we'll we're joiners, you know, we join people together, or we join with them, and it's just it just makes for just this wonderful continuing uh adventure. But the song, uh I hate my generation, it was funny. Uh, we were just starting uh, you know, Counting Crow's return the favor. Hey, why don't you come over to Europe and we'll do a UK tour and you guys open for us? And of course, Larry and I said, Yeah, absolutely. So, you know, we gave them a jump start at the very beginning a little bit. And, you know, by this point, they were kind of blowing up. They'd sold five or six million records, and they were doing a tour of the UK, and we hadn't did, you know, Cracker hadn't played in a little while. So let's let's get a rehearsal day over there. So we hole up in a rehearsal space in Ireland, and uh we're in there just knocking it out. And uh I came up with that riff, that big, you know, it's another one of my big bonehead riffs, as David calls them. Um, hopefully a riff that you I I get in your head and you can't get it out. I strive for that, really. But when I come up with a riff, I'm not thinking that. I'm just thinking, okay, it's another, it's another riff, it's another one, one from the riff bank, you know.
SPEAKER_01:It's always in my head.
SPEAKER_00:Oh, thank you. I started wailing on that riff, and David fall fell in. And if he found the right chords to go behind the riff, I'm wailing on. And we keep pounding it out, and it was just sort of it was starting to get some momentum, and it felt good. And he was sort of over in the corner, like like yelling and screaming, not on Mike. He was just sort of finding his way. And I came over, I walked over next to him as the as the racket's going on, and I said, What are you yelling? What are you saying? And he just looked right at me and right in my ear. He said, I hate my generation. I'm like, Oh, there we go. Now we're in, you know, right. Yeah, it's a classic. Oh, thanks, man. And suddenly it's like, wow, we're the sex pistols right now, you know.
SPEAKER_05:That's the way they wrote their songs, you know. Johnny was over in the corner screaming, and all of a sudden they had a tune.
SPEAKER_00:He goes, It's organic, you know. Uh, yeah, I think a band like The Clash, some bands, they one of the two writers will write separately and then they'll bring it in. And Dave and I do that too. I've got a song, I got an idea, you know. Um, but a lot of them, the the beautiful organic ones, you know. I'm I'm really proud of both of our solo projects. I think we've made some great, great solo records. Um, but I look at the the mass body of work and I think about songs like I hate my generation or Low or Teen Angst or the song The Golden Age, the ones that uh we both had a big, big hand in the songs. And those are the ones that just keep rising to the top, you know. And I just feel so fortunate that for that. And uh I've talked to some songwriters who they well, I have a hard time writing with other people, and other songwriters who are like us, it's like, wow, I'm so glad I work with him because it completes the ideas I have, or I'll he'll show me an idea he's been kicking around for a long time, you know. And I've got over the years, I got to be uh, you know, I make a connection with Tom Petty and the Heartbreakers. Rest in peace, Tom. Everybody, we just miss him so much. But through Don Smith, our producer, who produced a lot of the great cracker records, uh, was really tight with Tom Petty and the Heartbreakers. He did a lot of engineering and producing with them, and uh sort of got us together. He said, Johnny, you should come meet Mike. Okay. Ended up going to Mike's house and you know, looking at guitars. This guy's just an incredible guitar collection, and we just nerded out and played guitars and hung out. And uh it was just fabulous. Mike Campbell is just a you know, underrated genius musically, you know, and he would immediately disagree with uh no, I'm just a guitar player, I'm a songwriter. But he's he's very down-to-earth, but he's just an incredible talent, and they work the same way, you know. Um uh, you know, Mike will have, and Tom even said that, yeah, Mike will have a riff he's playing. And sometimes, yeah, it goes right over my head. Other times I walk in and I go, Mike, what is that? Oh, it's just a riff, and it turns into running down a dream, or it turns into one of those incredible uh Mike Campbell Tom Petty songs. And uh they just they're just they work in a very similar manner. I read Mike Campbell's book and I went, boy, it's just the same identical sort of work dynamic. You know, one of the two will have an idea and then away they go. Um, and it's just incredible. And I like that. I I read in an article once that Tom said, yeah, I mean, some song, some riffs get me right away, other ones don't. But uh, and Mike says, Well, I played them the riffs and the chord structure to uh you know, the the song with Henley, um Boys of Summer, you know, right became Boys of Summer, but at one at that point it was just sort of a riff and an idea, and Tom kind of went, Yeah, I don't know what else you got, you know. He didn't, and then uh I guess Don Hanley came by and heard Mike playing these riffs and chords and wow, what's that? He says, I don't know, it's just one of something I got. Henley makes a demo of it, I think is the way it went. Went home and started applying those lyrics to it, and they created one of the biggest hits of the decade. You know, I mean that song was huge. That song was so such a hit that it went up and down the charts and did remarkably well. It was number one and then number three, and then and then it went down and then it went back up the charts. You know, it was just one of those stories.
SPEAKER_01:Other bands were covering it, and you know, uh I remember that song because I love the line seeing the deadhead sticker on a Cadillac. Like I just think that is really cool. Like to put that in a pop song, like you know, you don't think someone's gonna make a reference to the Grateful Dead, but it's kind of ironic a Deadhead sticker on a Cadillac, but you know, at that time, that's kind of how things had changed as people had grown and you know, matured and so forth. I I love the Grateful Dead. You know, I'm not gonna I'm not gonna make any bones of About that whatsoever. But what's kind of funny also is that you talk about, you know, matching people, you know, both Tom Petty and the Heartbreakers and Don Henley, they both went and did songs with Stevie Nicks. And like how people are able to go and do these different things. You know, I'm reading a book right now, On the Road with the Ramones, by the Ramones tour manager, Monty Melnick. And there is a part where they're talking about when Tom Petty and the Heartbreakers opened up for the Ramones in 1977. Oh, cool. You know, what a crazy combination, but it's really cool to read about. It really is.
SPEAKER_00:You know, it's it's that's back in the days where yeah, you'd see double bills where you kind of go, huh? You know? Yes. Um it was weird in the punk rock days. People don't realize there was a little bit of a snootiness about some of the punk rock scenes. You know, it had to be real punk rock or it's just, you know, blah, blah, blah. Uh, it was a little with any genre when it takes off, it's a little bit of a snootiness around it and the writers and sometimes. Um and uh I remember first hearing that that first uh Tom Petty and the Heartbreakers record, and just being floored by how good the songs were and how good that band sounded. And I went and saw them live, uh, like the Riverside Gymnasium on Riverside, and it's just a little gymnasium gig. You know, it didn't sound that great and it was all echoey, but it was magical, you know. Wow, these guys, and very little by little the song in California, the song Breakdown sort of was their you know, their breakthrough, you know. Other songs grew out of that one too. Um but uh American Girl ended up being like the big song on there. But at that time it was a live version of Breakdown was getting played on radio in California on the college stations and just hip as hell. But yeah, and then you know, I do yeah, I like getting back to Boys of the Summer. I think Don Hanley is just a fabulous songwriter, and uh so many great songs out of that era. I remember in punk rock days, you know, I I really liked the Eagles, I really liked you know their stuff and you know, the punk rock snooty people like, oh, that's old school, that crappy old produced rock music. I'm like, no, no, a good song is a good song, uh, regardless of genre, you know.
SPEAKER_01:I agree with you a hundred percent on that. And when I was growing up, it was the same thing, you know, I like music, but then I would be like, hey, I like Paul McCartney and Wing silly love songs, and people would be like, What? How can you like that song? I'm like, I like it. I can't I can't help it. I like the song, you know. I think I love you by the Partridge family. I like the song, you know. And and as David Lowry says, I offer no apologies, you know, it's just the way that it is.
SPEAKER_00:You remember being at age being a young teenager and said, I don't care what you think. I like Sugar Sugar by the Archies, you know. Right. It's not a real band, it's a cartoon band.
SPEAKER_05:Right. No, it was a catchy tune, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:That's one of those riffs. Right. I agree. So Johnny covered that.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, you you know what?
SPEAKER_00:Maybe you should cover it. You do a good job of it. So uh yeah, on Halloween Halloween night, I'm gonna do uh I did uh this series when COVID hit, you know, people couldn't tour. So what am I gonna do? And I was the I was the first person that I knew that did this every Friday night. I did uh Johnny Hickman Live from the Cave in the basement of my former house. And I would just go live on Facebook and uh every Friday night at like you know seven o'clock mountain time, you know, and uh Friday night from the cave. And it was, you know, I had 400 people listening. I can you can see how many people are checked in, right? 400 people in 2,000. Then one night there was 6,000 people listening. I thought, wow, this is pretty cool, and that that kept up. It got to a level there was like six or eight or ten thousand people listening. And uh six months later, I went back, I backtracked and did the count. I had over half a million listens, views of that little show I was doing.
SPEAKER_01:That's impressive.
SPEAKER_00:Really low budget, uh, just me singing in the basement. And you know, I'm doing you know, my songs and cracker songs and Hickman Dalton gang songs, and occasionally I just do like a Lowry solo song, just really having fun with it. I do an Ike Riley song, you know, and then I started thinking, well, I'm gonna put some themes in here. And then I had Heartbreak Friday, and then I had uh Wheels, one a show I called Wheels, and it was all songs about the road on the road again, you know. Uh and you know, just you know, and it just that was the theme: motorcycles, cars, whatever way you hit the road, being on tour buses and vans. And I did that was the theme another night. Uh and then I had one night where I I called it uh bring me my medicine. And that was always had references to drugs, had references to booze or whatever, sister morphine. I didn't, you know, I just sort of had I'd get a hold of a theme and just go with it, you know. Really, really fun. And I haven't done it in a long time. And everywhere I go on tour with Cracker, I had people walking up and said, Man, thank you for doing those Friday night shows during COVID. You really helped me get through COVID. And uh, you know, we were housebound, and we'd just every Friday night we'd sit on the couch and you know, put Johnny on the big screen. And he said, Sometimes it was it was a janky shit show. Sometimes I couldn't get them the mics to work, or and it was kind of funny. One of the fans called it the janky the Johnny's janky shit show because the the visual would be on, but you couldn't really hear it well, or the you know, vice versa. You know, it sounded great, but we couldn't see you. You're over in the dark, you need to get a lot more light in your room there. Just really just hilarious, you know, one man production. But uh, so many people said, You God, I really miss that. That was so much fun. So uh my girlfriend Jess is gonna help me do it on Halloween night. I was gonna do uh I do this group of shows that the fans call Hickmania in Northern California. Every year, right around Halloween, I would do four or five house shows and they were packed and it was just over the top great. But this year, uh, the planning stages, I got really sick. I got uh novovirus and got just sick as hell. I'm coming around now finally, but it it was a bad sorry to hear.
SPEAKER_01:I know you have been ill and you know, glad to see that you're on the mend and able to join us today.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, thank you. Yeah, I'm back at it. You know, well, I'm in my 70th year on the planet here, man. So things just start going occasionally, but overall I'm in really good shape. I work out every night when I'm home. I eat a pretty healthful diet, you know. I take pretty good care of myself, you know. Like, well, I've made it to, I'm gonna be 70 next year on my birthday. That's pretty good.
SPEAKER_01:Listen, you do not look that. Honestly, I did not know your age. I didn't look it up, but I if I never would have guessed that. All right. And this is coming from someone that has stood right in front of you. We've had our arms around each other. I'm talking about there is no way that I ever would have guessed that your age. You look fantastic.
SPEAKER_00:Oh, thank you. As my sons both say, my two adult sons, yeah, he doesn't look seven. He doesn't act it either. You know, they'll go over to the gym with me and they're like, God, dad, what how much are you lifting there on the bench? They go, ah, 200 pounds. You know, like, I can't even move that. You know, I said, Well, guys, now's the time to start working out. You know, I'll do a couple of miles on the treadmill and put on some music, and it's just what I do, you know. Right. Um, I figure gonna cut cut my losses. I'm gonna just, you know, just try to try to stay as fit as I can, as they say in England, oh, looking fit. Yeah, you're looking fit, lad, you know.
SPEAKER_01:So where so on Halloween, where will everybody be able to listen to you? Where will they be able to go on Facebook Live or where is this gonna be?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I'm putting that together now. Uh I just uh uh you know, I've got 5,000 people on my files on my personal page, which is the limit. I've usually got a couple of hundred people in the wings. And if somebody pisses me off, I kick them out and pull somebody else in. Uh, you know, um, but uh I I just uh started another Facebook Live, and it's the name of the page is it's a public page, and it's just called Johnny from Cracker, and that's where I'm gonna launch from. So if you uh get on Facebook and you Google, you know, you sir do a search on Facebook for Johnny from Cracker, Johnny from Cracker, um, it'll pop up and I'll be streaming. Hopefully, my girlfriend, she's she's she's really a tech, she's she's a lot younger than me, and she's very savvy with the tech. So she's gonna help me get it lined up and we're gonna do it. And um, we had our costumes, we had our costumes already for me to go do this little mini tour. Um, you know, we went to the to the spirit store and got our costumes, and then the tour kind of fell through because I got sick. And I said, baby, let's let's let's go live anyway. She said, let's do it. I'll help you do it. And so she's gonna fly out from Georgia, and we're gonna do she's flying in Saturday, actually. And we're gonna put uh we're gonna do this uh Halloween live the Johnny Hickman live from the cave, the the grand, the grand return, you know, the return of, you know. Well, that sounds good. What time is that gonna be? It's gonna be uh seven o'clock. Let me check my poster here. Yeah, it's got it's seven o'clock mountain time, which will be nine o'clock east coast time, nine o'clock yes. Um yeah, and uh you know, it'll be six o'clock on the west coast. Um, yeah, that's there you go. And uh you'll you'll be able to find me. Uh I'll send you, I'll send you a link.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, send it and I'll I'll put it out on our Facebook page and on Instagram, and you know, we'll make sure that we put a link to the show notes so people can uh check it out because I'm sure that it is going to be fun.
SPEAKER_00:Oh, thanks, man. Yeah, it's gonna, it'll be a blast, you know. And I'll have my bottle of wine, I'll be singing away. Um when I, you know, it's Halloween, so okay. Kind of going with the Halloween theme. I could throw a couple of covers in there. Of course, I'll be doing a lot of cracker songs and my songs, but uh I'm already working up. Who's that I see walking in these woods?
SPEAKER_01:Oh, Little Red Riding Hood. I I love that song. I think that song is fantastic. I mean, that is really, really still a good song to listen to today.
SPEAKER_00:It's just a silly, awesome little pop song.
SPEAKER_01:That's uh Sam the Sham and the Pharaohs? Am I right?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, and Jessica, my girlfriend, and I said, Okay, well, let's go with that theme. So, you know, I've got I got my wolf ears. I'm gonna be, I'll I'll let you in on it. I'm gonna be the wolf uh for that show, and she's got her little red riding hood outfit on. So my girl, and uh working up a few other ones I came up with. Uh my sister caught up. She said, Oh, you should do uh spooky. Oh, spooky. Yeah, but it's kind of crazy with a spooky little girl like you. So that's gonna be one. Nice, and then I got another one, season of the witch, Donovan. I like it. Got a little theme working up there. I might do uh speaking of the Eagles, I might do Witchy Woman, uh, see how how she flies. I might do the Witch Queen of New Orleans. I might have done a whole string of witch songs just for fun. I don't know. Uh you know, I'm just gonna just gonna have fun with it, as I do, as I will, you know. And some of the songs may crash and burn and train wreck. I it doesn't matter, man. It's live. It's in the moment. It's gonna be fun. Oh, yeah, man. I'll send I'll send you the link, man.
SPEAKER_01:Sounds good. So, Johnny, you mentioned about all these songs. I actually have a song that I put together that I'd like to do spoken word. It's mostly titles from cracker songs. And I just kind of put it together and just thought, you know what? I'm gonna debut it live here with you and see what you think. And, you know I I could crash and burn. You know, we'll see. But it's spoken word, just so you know. So I'm gonna go through this. It's not terribly long, but it's very cool. We'll see how it goes. So are you ready? I'm honored. I'm honored. Yeah, yeah, man. All right, here we go. I had teen angst from wondering what the world needs. Should I call a doctor like Dr. Bernice? Seven days when I've been waiting, everyone gets one for free. Please, oh please, take me down to the infirmary. Been around the world, yeah. I've been around the world. I ride my bike, let's go for a ride. This is cracker stole and don't forget the crumbs. This is cracker stole and don't forget the crumbs. Been around the world, yeah. I've been around the world. Turn on, tune in, drop out with me.
SPEAKER_00:There you go. Oh, that's sensational, man.
SPEAKER_01:Thank you. Thank you. That's my my uh my debut of cracker title songs. That's it. And it was relatively easy to do, I have to be honest. So it didn't, it didn't take long to do that. Um, I know Jimmy had some fear about me doing that in front of the big rock star. I was like, I'm gonna do it. I'm gonna do it.
SPEAKER_05:He's the most gracious man on the planet.
SPEAKER_01:You know, so let me just say this. You know, I think I might have answered my own question that I that I asked you in the beginning of the show. And I said, what do you think is one of the reasons that you guys are still around? And I think really when it comes down to it, you are extremely personable. And both you and David are part of the cracker crumbs and are are posting stuff and answering stuff and part of the group. You know, there's a lot of things you do with bands that it's just some person that you don't know who it is, and whatever they want to write, they write. But you guys really are involved with it. And by doing the camp in, you know, I know you just did the camp out uh in September, you know, uh after a a a number of years, and really doing things to get the fans involved. And I think that that's what it comes down to is people like being part of what's going on, and that's the whole cracker family, the crumbs, everything that that that you guys do. I think that everyone feels a part of it.
SPEAKER_00:Wow, I I hope so, and thank you. Um it really is kind of a family, it's a community, most certainly. Um from the get-go, years and years and years ago, uh, I remember when I was a punk rock guy, and uh I was right between two siblings that were big dead fans, okay? My older sister and my younger brother, and they were deadheads. And uh finally, punk rock days, I said, Hey, just come see the dead with us. All right, yeah, sure. What I got to lose. I I like a couple of songs. Yeah, sure, let's go down. And I went down to Ventura and they did a show on the beach, and it was Jerry's birthday. And I had so much fun, it was so great. You know, I got my Misfit shirt on and my blue hair, you know. It's like you know, uh early mid 80s, I think it was. Right. And uh um, you know, I just when I was sensational, man. It was so good. So, you know, I went out and started buying dead records, I'm you know, and really getting into them and going to shows. And then it it, you know, over time came to pass and we covered the loser on kerosene hat. Jerry got a hold of it, really liked it, and they invited us to do three shows opening for them. And it was sensational. I'm still meeting people that's that say, yeah, I didn't know who Cracker was, and I saw you open for The Grateful Dead. We're not talking Dead and Company, we're talking the Grateful Dead. Right. When Jerry was still with us, you know, and they were just so cool to us and we bonded, you know, and that was another one of those connections. And so, yeah, still still, you know, getting some traction out of that, you know.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, you know, I mentioned I'm a great uh big Grateful Dead fan. You know, I've seen it's funny because I tell this on the show often, you know, I go see Dead in Company or I I saw Billy Strings and I see different things. I see people with Grateful Dead shirts on. And I'll say, Oh, that's a cool shirt. And they'll be like, hey, did you see Jerry play? Like, I guess I'm old enough that they've realized that I saw him while he was alive. And I'm like, yes, I've seen Jerry Garcia in person playing, you know? And it's um it's it's really neat what they've done with Dead and Company and trying to carry the torch and do things a little bit different. It's not the same by any means, but it's cool. But when I go and I've seen you guys play and you do lose her, whoever I am with, I'm like, just listen to this version. It is so good. And you really do it while you do it in your own way, it is so much like the Grateful Dead version. It is just an honor, I think. You know, honoring them. And I love your version. Sometimes people do versions that you're like, oh wow, that's not that good. But yours is fantastic. And I think it's one of those versions where it comes from your heart, it comes from your soul as you're playing it, and and and us in the audience, we can feel it.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. Well, I'm glad to hear that. Yeah, it's one of those songs we don't do a lot of covers, but the ones we do choose to do, I mean, we we try to really get inside the soul of the song and kind of make it our own. But yeah, that one, uh I love the fact that it's got these big wide open areas for solos, which of course I'll do different every time, a different guitar solo. Uh, I've played mandolin on it live. And Ann Harris, our our violinist, uh, when we do that song live now, it features her on a beautiful song. And she and I will get sort of a conversation going between violin and uh and guitar, and that's one of the songs that really uh highlights what we're able to do live. So if you get a chance to see with see us with Ann Harris, boy, you're yeah, you're in for a treat. She's sensational.
SPEAKER_01:Yes, and I I've seen you a few times with Ann Harris. Um I got to see Cannon actually play with you guys on Pedal Steel. Yeah, yeah. I saw him at 40 watt, but I also saw him with you guys in uh in uh North Carolina in Murphy. Oh cool, yeah. And it was uh and pistol, you know, before him. And you know, it was such an eye-opener when Ann Harris came out and what she was able to provide. And you the two of you really do have a great chemistry. It's a lot of fun. I think, you know, a lot of times when you go see bands, everything has to be perfect. It's got to be the solo starts at this moment and it ends at this moment because the lights are gonna do this and the singer knows he's supposed to start singing, and it becomes very mechanical, and it's not that way with you guys at all. It's just, you know, sometimes you guys are doing and you're ready to end, and David will kind of like, nah, just keep going, you know, and I love that, you know. I think that's a lot of fun. It really is.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, we have certain songs that just ebb and flow, grow and shrink. Uh they're maybe a little faster, maybe a little slower. It's just on the mood. There's certain songs that we're pretty much going to play them as they are in the album, you know, like this. We're one of those bands that doesn't think they're too cool to think they're too cool to play their hits. We always play the hits. So this is these are the songs that put us on the map, you know. It's another one of the things that Larry and I talked about when we started writing songs together and starting to put the band together. Let's never be one of those bands that just thinks they're too cool. If we're lucky to have hits, you know. And uh, you know, that's the advice I give to younger bands. It's like if you got a song or two that are the ones that put you on the map, it's probably a pretty good idea, good idea to play them. You know, and I remember early on, this may be somebody's first cracker show. And you know, we're gonna go all over the place, but at some point they're gonna go, Oh, I know this song. Oh, that's these guys? Okay. And you almost sense that when that when that happens. So yeah, if you're lucky enough to have some signature songs, yeah, you should absolutely do them live, you know. Um and uh so yeah, I mean, it's just uh so we have a we have we're we're we're blessed. We have a little bit of both. We have signature songs that people know are okay, these are these cracker songs that I know, Euro Trash Girl, or what have you. Um and there are other songs that we that come in and out and uh become somebody's favorite after they see us live. And I love that. I mean, it's just yeah, there's no rules. There's no rules in cracker. Uh well, there is. David and I very early on said, okay, the only rule, David said, the only rule is don't suck. And that's a good rule, right? Yeah, exactly. Just know what you know what you're doing up there, and uh surrounding ourselves with amazingly talented people is a big part of that, you know.
SPEAKER_05:Well, it seems to me, you know, that you guys stayed true to yourselves and to to what you had between you and David and made songs that you both like. You know, you weren't you're never chasing something when grunge was big, like you talked about earlier. You got a lot of people would have said, Oh, we need to be more grunge. That's what's hot right now. And then you would have been a band that, you know, was kind of coming across maybe as not genuine, right? But you guys just what you tack the other direction.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, because go with your gut, and uh and it's another thing that David said early on. He said, I just figure if I really like it, somebody else out there is gonna like it, you know. It's a very simple concept, but it's it's really true. If you believe in it and you're having a good time playing it and creating it, uh, then there's somebody else who's gonna connect to it too. And fortunately, we've had that. Yeah, I remember when we first started the band and we were working on the songs for brand, you know, for Cracker, the first song. You know, I came in with Mr. Wrong, which is kind of a flat out Bakersfield country song, right? And David really loved the song, and I said, Well, you should sing it, you know. So I tossed it off to him, you know, and we were just writing all different kinds of things, writing some together and some separately. But if you really think about breaking it down into sub-genres, um, it's kind of all over the map. I mean, it's got Teen Anx, which is almost kind of a punk rock roaring, big, crazy thing. It's got Happy Birthday to Me, which is very, very pop. It could have been, you know, uh, you know, one of those 70s pop bands. And then you got Mr. Wrong, and you got these sort of things. And uh Dr. Bernice, you know, as a waltz. It's a crazy weird waltz. And uh I remember the you know, uh Virgin Records, especially the English people from the label, so well, we don't really know how we're gonna market you. Do we put you with country? Do we put you with uh rock? I mean, you're really not grunge. And we said, Well, it's we have we just make cracker music, man. You do whatever you want, you know. Uh but it they sort of the English uh label people saw it as a little bit of a challenge. I said, No, I I understand what you're saying, sure, I get it. But uh just put the record out. Yeah, it's a it's you know, and then there were a few. Oh, these guys are all over the map. I don't know what kind of music they are. Good. It's cracker music, all right?
SPEAKER_01:You know, yeah, yeah, it is. So speaking of the early days, and I know we're running short on time here, but the other day a video, you know, popped up, and it was a 1992 video of Cracker doing teen angst on the Dennis Miller show. And wow, you and David were like extremely fresh faced. You were super young, and you had like a bushel of hair going. I mean, you you had so much hair. And I was like, wow. And then that that look you had with the with the pants and the shorts combination, that was awesome. I loved it. I I mean I did. Um and then you guys played another video that came on where you played on uh Jules Holland. And I I'm a huge Jules Holland fan.
SPEAKER_02:Oh, you did a great show.
SPEAKER_01:You did the Jules Holland show and did low. What was it like being on that show? So for people that don't know, there's like five or six bands that they have on, and everybody takes a turn, you're all kind of like standing in the same room. What was that experience like?
SPEAKER_00:I really like that the format. It was kind of crazy. I think I can't even remember who we were on with at uh Jules Holland. I think it might have been like Fine Young Cannibals, um, might have been cranberries. I'm thinking of bands right around that time. Yeah, and the camera pans around and this band does a song, they go over here and this band does a song, and our little quick clips of interviews. Well, Jules would talk to the the bands. Really cool, cool format. I loved it. Um, yeah, and we're, you know, to us, of course, we're like, wow, this is so English. I love it. It's so English. Uh, but it was really just kind of universal. But yeah, what a great premise, you know, and what a great idea that man had, you know.
SPEAKER_01:Oh, yeah. You know, he was in Squeeze, and I'm a big squeeze fan. But he also, speaking of fine young cannibals, he did the piano on the song Good Thing, the song from 1988, if you didn't know. Very cool. He did the the Uncertain Smile piano as well. Um just some some really cool things there. But so, you know, we really appreciate you coming on the show today, Johnny. I know that um, you know, you haven't felt well, and you know, it's great to have you on. It's fantastic to, you know, hear some backstories and hear just different things about the band and about yourself. You know, we're looking forward to Halloween where we can uh check out you know what you got planned with your Halloween costumes and the songs that you're gonna be doing, and that sounds like it'll be a lot of fun. And um it's just really, really cool. And um, what about Crazy Sloth? I know that's something that you just started. What what can you tell us a little bit about that quick?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I haven't been able to jumpstart it as much as I wanted to because I did get sick. Um, but uh yeah, I'll probably get back to it. Yeah, I uh I was doing uh I was at a recording studio, a little house recording studio here, um, playing on an Ike Riley track. Ike came to town and we're working, these are people that he knew. So we're over there working on an Ike song, and uh I ended up playing like uh I think I ended up playing bass and guitar and doing some. I said, I'm gonna create a female backing vocal part for you here. He goes, Well, who are the girls? I go, they'll be me, but it'll sound like girls. Well, do you trust me? And he and Ike's telling the the studio guys, oh, it's Hicker. He let him go. He's gonna, he's got an idea, go with it. So we in there and we're having a blast and we're making this music. And uh some of the guys that were hanging out and the engineers said, We hear you were thinking about putting together a Colorado band. You know, I said, Yeah, I'm thinking about it. And they kind of said, Well, I think it could be us, you know. So um I did, we did, we did start forming Crazy Sloth, and they came out and played camp out with me. You know, I flew the guys out there, and yeah, just now I've got uh a band here in Colorado, and uh certainly not if we're doing shows with crack with with cracker, but when we do songs, we do shows on our own here in Colorado, you know, I'll I'll pull out the the cracker hits because I co-wrote them, you know, they're my songs too. So we'll do Mo and Teen Angst and some of these songs and a lot of my solo stuff and an occasional cover. It's just fun. I wanted to have a band that I could play with when I'm home, you know, uh on the stretches between cracker tours and cracker projects. And they're just sensational players. And uh little younger than me, that's great. They can give me a little good kick in the oh, give the old guy a kick in the ass. Um, so yeah, that's what that's about. Just I wanted to do some regional things. And uh Colorado's just, I mean, I've been here 20 years, I'll never leave. I absolutely love Colorado and um connected really, really well connected with the music scenes here, and you know, um yeah, so that's Crazy Sloth. It's uh just Johnny Hickman and Crazy Sloth. You know, sort of I sort of designed it after my hero Neil Young and Crazy Horse. Oh, okay. That's where that came from. But the name Crazy Sloth's got a pretty funny uh origin because uh when Dave and I were first writing songs together, he mentioned when they said, you know, you write these really catchy riffs, but a lot of them are these big slow riffs, you know. So I took the opportunity to write the slowest riff ever written, which is the riff to Dixie Babylon. And it's a guitar riff, but it's really slow. And I just and he thought that he kind of got a kick out of that. He said, Yeah, you're like crazy, Neil Young, crazy horse, but you're crazy sloth. And so he kind of used it. It was back in the day because I was writing these big, heavy, slow riffs, you know, and uh and I always always kind of stuck in my head. So then when it came time to put the band together, oh crazy sloth, yeah. Johnny Hickman and Crazy Sloth, you know, we use the sloth as the logo, and you know, and off we go. We'll see what happens with crazy sloth next year. So when uh when uh cracker's not working, I'll probably be here doing stuff with with crazy sloth, you know, playing around Colorado. We had our first show up in Golden, Colorado at uh like an outdoor venue. And I thought, well, you never know, it's our first show. But I guess word had gotten out because they were crumbs that came from Montana and from you know Utah and all over Colorado. And uh the owner of the place said, Well, that's just full as this place has been in a while. I went, Well, have us back, man.
SPEAKER_01:You know, there you go. That's awesome. That really is. It's I I think it's really cool to be able to have those outlets for yourself that you can still play and maybe do something a little bit different than what you're normally doing or what your other side projects are. So uh good luck with that. I hope it continues to go well.
SPEAKER_00:Thank you. Uh it's been just so great talking with you guys, Jim and Jimmy. Yeah. Well thank you.
SPEAKER_01:We seriously, we really appreciate you coming on. And you know, I wish it was almost time for camping again, because I can't wait for it to be. I'm not trying to rush time, but it's just such a fun thing to do. I take a couple of days off of work and it's just a fun, good thing. So again. Yeah, thank you. We we really do appreciate it, Johnny. My pleasure. That was awesome having Johnny Hickman of Cracker on the show with us.
SPEAKER_05:Such a great guy.
SPEAKER_01:And if you want to reach out to us and mention something about the show that you thought was cool, whether it was about Johnny or not, please feel free, musicinmyshoes at gmail.com. Please like and follow the Music in My Shoes Facebook and Instagram pages. That's it for episode 102 of Music in My Shoes. I'd like to thank Johnny Hickman, singer-guitarist of Cracker. Fantastic person. I'd also like to thank Jimmy Guthrie, show producer and owner of Arcade 160 Studios, located right here in Atlanta, Georgia. He's a fantastic person also.
SPEAKER_05:Aww.
SPEAKER_01:And Vic Thrill for our podcast music.
SPEAKER_05:He's a fantastic person too.
SPEAKER_01:There he is. This is Jim Voges, and I hope you learned something new or remembered something old. We'll meet again on our next episode. Until then, live life and keep the music playing.
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