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Music In My Shoes
Monte A. Melnick - Ramones Tour Manager Interview - E103
A leather jacket, an iconic eagle logo, and a three-chord blur that changed everything—tour manager Monte A. Melnick joins us to reveal how the Ramones became an institution without ever chasing the charts. From booking chaos and van miles to Sire Records deals and night-after-night precision, Monty shares the systems and scrapes that kept the band loud, fast, and on time.
We go inside the job nobody sees: shows and hotels, wrangling crews, negotiating with agents, and surviving mismatched arena bills where batteries and ice picks rained from the crowd. Monte explains why the Ramones doubled down on headlining their own rooms, how CBGB’s gave them a lab to refine short, no-solo songs, and why minimalism was a deliberate design, not a limitation. He walks through Joey’s rise from drums to the mic, Dee Dee’s volcanic creativity and volatility, Tommy’s drum architecture to Marky’s transition, and Johnny’s iron will that protected the brand.
If you’ve ever wondered how a band with modest sales became a global touchstone, this conversation connects the dots: discipline over myth, craft over chaos, and a road team that made it all possible. Listen, share with a fellow Ramones fan, and leave a review to tell us your favorite track—and why it still hits.
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SPEAKER_02:This is Monty A. Melnick, Toy Manager for the Ramones, and you're listening to music in my shoes.
SPEAKER_00:Hey everybody, this is Jim Boj, and you're listening to Music in My Shoes. That was Vic Thrill kicking off episode 103. As always, I'm thrilled to be here with you. Let's learn something new or remember something old. So, Jimmy, I know your favorite band is the Ramones. We've talked about it on the show many times. Many times. I love the Ramones. We've talked about them probably more times than we can count. So imagine how lucky we are today to have Monty A. Melnick, the tour manager of the Ramones, joining us from New York right now. So lucky.
SPEAKER_01:Welcome, Monty.
SPEAKER_00:Monty, welcome. Thank you for joining us on Music in My Shoes.
SPEAKER_02:Well, hey ho, let's go.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. Of course, let's do it. Hey, so one of the things I wanted to do is I think, you know, our listeners probably don't know exactly everything that a tour manager does. And you know, you have this book that you've been promoting. It's had several editions on the road with the Ramones. A great read. I really enjoyed it. But if you Yeah, if you could tell our listeners a little bit about what it entailed, all the things that really were your responsibility.
SPEAKER_02:Well, I started off early with the group before uh they really started playing around anywhere in performance studios. They they started and uh I worked with doing sound for them for basically for showcases. And then when the performance studios closed down, they they started getting jobs outside. So I I kind of jumped onto a crew doing uh everything in the beginning, basically driving and uh doing the sound for them and setting up equipment. And the bigger they got, the more people we could hire, like drum roadies and guitar roadies. And from there, I worked on my way from road manager to tour manager. And uh tour manager there's a lot of many, many things the tour manager does, you know. Uh uh basically I worked, you know, booking shows, uh, working with the uh booking agents, working with the management, working with a record company, working with crews, of course, working with the band. It's a lot of different jobs that entails tour managing.
SPEAKER_01:And the Ramones toured like incessantly. So you were you were on the road a lot, right?
SPEAKER_02:That's a good word, incessantly. I like that. Yeah. Yeah. Basically, yeah, uh, yeah, that's what that was my job to be on the road. I mean, I was lucky because a lot of tour managers you they join a group and then they do a tour and then they they tour the ends and then have to look for another job. But the remones kept me on throughout their whole career, basically. I worked with them uh with their videos and worked with them when they were rehearsing, and they kept me on the payroll for other things besides um just touring. But touring was the main thing with the Ramones. That was a meat and potatoes, basically. They they weren't selling very many records, that was a problem, you know. Touring and merchandising was the was the meat and potatoes for the Ramones, basically.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, and that was from uh 1974 to 1996 when the Ramones um ended the Ramones. So you were there basically the entire time with them.
SPEAKER_02:Pretty much, yeah. I I think I'm in the beginning I was working basically with them in performance studios, which they did a lot of showcases there. And then uh when they started picking up a lot of jobs later on, uh I jumped onto the crew.
SPEAKER_00:Well, it's a fascinating book. I enjoyed it so much. I actually was going on Sunday mornings outside, sitting on my porch, reading it, and my kids said, What has gotten into you? Because you do not read books like this. And it it just kept me where I just wanted to keep reading. And it's it's it's a really good book.
SPEAKER_02:I'm glad you like it.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, you you know, you really learn a lot. I think you know, a lot of times we think we know a lot about bands, but until you read a book like this, you realize you don't know half of what you think you know.
SPEAKER_02:I was lucky enough though, though, with my publisher back when I first put it out, they let me put in a lot of images and posters and torque passes. So it's a lot of image, imagery, and things to look at, also.
SPEAKER_01:That's what I was gonna say. Yeah, it's got so many amazing photos in it and and pictures and imagery.
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:I was joking around for the punk rockers, you don't have to read it, just look at the pictures.
SPEAKER_00:Well, you could. You could get the whole history just by looking at the pictures. So let's go back. You grew up with Tommy Ramon back in the day, and you guys went to a ton of concerts together, you know, from reading the book, and you guys saw like Cream and Janice Joplin and Sly in the Family Stone and Chuck Berry ten years after, Johnny Winner, Jimi Hendrix, you know. It's just it's really cool to read that in the book. And what was it like for you guys going to that, you know, the filmmore in in other places? What was it like?
SPEAKER_02:We're very, very lucky to have the filmmore East, Bill Grant's Film or East in town. So and he brought in everybody. So we we just saw all sorts of different varieties of music we were exposed to, not just one specific area. That's what the beautiful part about the Fillmore was. It was an amazing venue.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I wish that, you know, it stayed around. There's so many of the venues that you wish that they had not, you know, ceased, you know, to exist and that they could still have the same vibe that they always had. And you know, if you look at um, you know, Winterland out in uh San Francisco and just all these different places, if they had just stayed around and had that same vibe, how cool it would have been. Now, I went to to uh I went to CBGB festival a few weeks ago in Brooklyn, and you know, I know it's not the same thing, but I did get to see you know the damned play, who was a band from CBGB's, you know, along with the Ramones, you know. It was cool to be able to see a band like The Damn still playing and still sounding good. And I just wish that the Ramones, you know, unfortunately, the original members, you know, they're not with us. But if they could still be here today and they could have played a festival like that, what it would have been like and what the attendance would have been like.
SPEAKER_02:Did you catch Marky's? Uh he was there, Marky Ramones band.
SPEAKER_00:I was not able to catch him. I wanted to. It was tough to move between the stages. That was one of the the, you know, it was under the K bridge there in Brooklyn, and it was kind of difficult moving around. But I wish that I had seen him.
SPEAKER_02:Um Yeah, I was out of town for that. But um, yeah, he Marky's, you know, he plays like 99 98% Ramon stuff. So if you, you know, it's really he's he's carrying the legacy of the Ramones along with it, with him, you know what I mean?
SPEAKER_01:He's got a good band too, you know. He's got a good singer and uh guitar player and everything.
SPEAKER_02:He's put together a good, a good uh, a good group there. Where are you guys located?
SPEAKER_00:So we are in Atlanta, Georgia. I grew up actually on Long Island. I grew up in Levittown, New York, and I listened to WLIR that played a lot of Ramones. And I moved here about 35 years ago, so I've been down here, but again, you know, my roots and growing up and as a kid, my shows were all in um in New York. And it's funny because I've talked about it before. I went to a Ramon show at the Nassau Community College back in 1985, and it's like they brought a flatbed truck on the student, you know, courtyard. And I remember we did some funnels beforehand. There was a bunch of us that went, and I was in the mosh pit, and I remember getting elbowed in the head, and the next thing I know, I was like knocked out on the ground, and I I couldn't remember anything at that point in time.
SPEAKER_02:What did you what did you do before?
SPEAKER_00:We were doing funnels, you know.
SPEAKER_02:What's a funnel?
SPEAKER_00:A funnel.
SPEAKER_01:A funnel beer funnel. A beer funnel, okay.
SPEAKER_00:You know, where you take a funnel and you're drinking from it and you pour and it it was actually um orange juice and vodka, if I could be honest with you. Oh my gosh. And um it was just crazy. It was a good time. A bunch of of my friends went, you know, obviously that's 40 years ago, but uh it was some good times of of seeing them. And that was one of those things that you just heard word of mouth, hey, the Ramones are playing at NASA Community College, and boom, let's go. And you know, um for Jimmy, Jimmy's first show, first concert actually.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, it was the Ramones in 1983 when I was 13 years old. Uh they played at the Agora Ballroom here in Atlanta. And uh all ages show. So my older brother took me and uh it was I I was hooked. I mean, I was already hooked. I was a huge Ramones fan, but I I it was just um life-changing.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, that was a good venue in in Atlanta. We we like playing there.
SPEAKER_00:Well, the show that Jimmy was at was actually the one that Amy Carter was at that show. Uh she came to soundcheck. And can you tell us a little bit about that? I mean, you were there, you had to meet her. What was it like having the daughter of the president in you know at a show?
SPEAKER_02:Well, it's a bit intimidating with a lot of Secret Service people around checking. She only came for the soundcheck, unfortunately. She didn't stay for the show. Um, but you know, she was very a big fan, and uh, you know, having all the Secret Service agents all around was a little, you know, as I said, intimidating is a bit crazy, but uh it was, you know, she's a very beautiful, nice person. She actually wrote a little note to them that I have. Oh, wow. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Oh, that's pretty cool.
SPEAKER_02:Have that somewhere.
SPEAKER_00:Well, that's good. I mean, um, you know, if you think about it, like if I went to a show, I don't know if I would write a note to anyone, but it must be cool because being the daughter of the president has to be difficult, and not being able to do everything you want to do, uh I guess I can see why she would write that. So that was Jimmy's first concert. So if we go back, um in the book, you talk about Dee Dee started calling himself Dee Dee Ramone before the band even started using the name Ramones because he was a big Paul McCartney fan. And Paul would check into hotels as Paul Ramon, but he would do it without the E at the end. And I just think it's a super cool story. I mean, that they came up with this from Dee Dee saying I'm Dee Dee Ramon.
SPEAKER_02:Well, actually he he saw this article and he came to the group and said, Let's make uh call ourselves Ramones. You know, Ramon at the end. Uh and um that was a little bit of a problem in the early years, you know, because people either thought they were some sort of a Mexican band, or they were all brothers, or they were a gang, you know what I mean? And so in early years it was a bit of a problem, you know. People got the wrong impression, you know, because the way they looked with the leather jackets. As a matter of fact, one time we were in uh Columbus or someone checking into a hotel early on, and I'm looking behind the desk, and there's a little note, watch out. This is this is a gang here. Watch out for them, you know. So the way they looked with the leather jackets. You know, later on everybody knew what the Ramones were, but in the early years it was a problem. People thought there was some actually Danny Fields, but there's some sort of a Mexican band in the beginning, you know, before he came to see them.
SPEAKER_00:So you mentioned Danny Fields. So Danny Fields managed the Ramones and he managed the doors at one point. And that to me, that's just such a different, you know, group of uh of musicians. How did Danny fit in, you know, with the Ramones? And and you know, could you see how he was able to be with different groups and yeah, well he well he signed Iggy and MC5 to the to the labels, you know?
SPEAKER_02:He worked with Jim Morrison. I don't think he I don't think he managed or did anything that, but he worked with him in record as a record executive when he was doing that. But signing you know, Iggy and the uh MC5, he had a lot of uh you know Ramones type things in him. Anyway, also Linda Stein was co-managing the group. Linda Stein was married to Seymour Stein. Who's Seymour Stein guys? Yes, Sire Records, right? Sire Records. So that's how they got the connection to Sire Records. So so it was a co-management, actually, Linda Stein and Danny Fields in the beginning. Oh, okay. And Danny was still, you know, as I said, working with Diggy and MC5, and he loved the Ramones.
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:He loved the Ramones. I mean, the story calls, I think, uh Lisa Robinson from Cream Magazine told Danny to go down and see the Ramones at CBGB's. And he was like a little reluctant because they were bugging him, come down seeing it. He thought there was some sort of Mexican-Spanish band in the beginning, you know. So when he when he went down to see the group, he just loved them, said, I want to be your manager, you know. The group said, We need$3,000 for some equipment. And he went to his mother, borrowed the money from his mother, and uh he became the manager of the group with a lot of uh Linda Stein.
SPEAKER_00:That's a great story. I mean, it really is, just to think that you think one thing about a band and then you go and see them and find out that they're really nothing like what your opinion has been, you know, formulated in your head. And the next thing you're borrowing money from your mother so that you can, you know, front the band money for instruments and all kinds of stuff. I mean, that's super cool.
SPEAKER_02:It was creams, creams are really good uh with the band. He loved the band.
SPEAKER_01:And of course they had the song Danny Says, you know, about about Danny and on that same album, End of the Century, that you you get a little mention in there, you know, Monty's driving me crazy, right?
SPEAKER_02:Well, yeah. People come to me and say, What's your favorite Ramon song? I like a lot of Ramon songs, but that's my favorite. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:You know, and that's good. You know, it's it's really funny. A lot of times we ask people when we have them on, hey, what's your favorite song? And and a lot of times people struggle with telling us my favorite song is I Just Wanna Have Something to Do. I just love that song. That is my favorite Ramon song, hands down. And I think it was from the first time I heard it. Jimmy, what would yours be?
SPEAKER_01:Oh, I don't know. You know, I just played a gig though. You were at uh last weekend and I played uh Sheena's a punk rocker. So uh why not say that one? That was my original first favorite Ramon song when I first heard the Ramones. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:I also like touring, touring is never boring. Yeah, that's a good thing. But you know, in that in that song All Away, which they you know, Monty's making me crazy. It's it's just like being in a navy, right? Right. You know, he's also talking about things that are driving him crazy, like the van and the monitor man, and how he just wants to have some fun. But there's a chilling line in this in this uh song because the bubble's going to explode, probably never live to get old.
SPEAKER_01:Oh, yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, Joey wrote that back in that song. It's kind of sad, you know.
SPEAKER_00:Yes, it you know, it is sad because they didn't get to live that long, unfortunately.
SPEAKER_01:Well, and a lot came out in Joey's lyrics, uh, you know, that he had that kind of push and pull in him. Obviously, he struggled with with mental health and uh, you know, just kind of he was a different kind of person, right? You know, physically and and mentally and everything. And so I think part of that was part of the magic of the Ramones was that his identity of of feeling kind of like a an outsider.
SPEAKER_02:Well, I think that's why they a lot of kids kind of have some you know relate to the Ramones a lot, you know, because that you know, if Joey, which is he was a total outsider and the way he looked, can they make it big and do something terrific and write great songs? You know, kids could do the same thing and join groups and stuff like that, you know?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, so tell us a little bit about Joey from your eyes. I mean, your point of view. You spent a ton of time with him, and you know, I think he's a great frontman, and you know, not just because he was this tall dude in a leather jacket hovering over the microphone, but I think he really commanded the stage, even though he wasn't, you know, someone that was all over the place. W how did you see him? And and and what what did you see that we don't?
SPEAKER_02:Well, you know, they really worked hard in the beginning in the early years. Uh they was just pretty raw and rough. And they, you know, they really worked hard, rehearsing a lot, playing a lot. They played over 70 times in CPGBs and the same number of times almost in performance studios, just working on their set and the way they looked and how they worked their instruments. And Joey worked his way up from you know, coming, you know, he's played drums first with the Ramones. Yeah, and then and then T was having a hard time singing and playing. Actually, the first group of the Ramones were three-piece with Joey on drums, Dee Dee playing bass and singing, and Johnny on guitar. And uh and T D was having a hard time singing and playing bass. And they actually played one show in 1974 as a three-piece group in in performance studios, but it wasn't working out. So Tommy was there, just wanted to produce them and manage them. Heard Joey had a good voice, pulled Joey up the drums and put him up up on front as a front man. And he worked his he worked on it a while. It took him a while to get his old stage presence, but he was great at that. He really worked very hard.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, no, you talk about the early days of the Ramones, and I I have these arguments with people that aren't Ramones fans that say, oh, you know, they're just they're so basic. And and to me, the Ramones were always intentionally minimalist. I mean, I'm sure a little bit of it came from not being virtuosos on instruments, but I felt like that. It was it was very much conceived to be something different and artistic from the beginning. Would you agree with that?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, absolutely. I mean, Tommy, I I look as Tommy as he like the architect of the band, you know. He came in and uh specifically geared the group to towards that that that specific style of of playing, and and and then that's what they were good at. Those you know, short songs and no no guitar solos, no drum solos. They didn't like all of that stuff, you know. So that's why they developed along those lines.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, so Mani, in your book, you described Didi as he was a living, breathing cartoon character. He was unlike anyone I have ever met in my entire life, and I've met a lot of bizarre people. Can you expand on that a little bit?
SPEAKER_02:Well, that there are there are different Didies. There are a number of different Didies. There was the good Didi, the good Didi, the bad Didi, the songwriting Didi, the singer singing Didi. It was a multiple personality. You know, he never knew which Didi was going to show up. That was the problem. And of course, he was obsessed with things. He he couldn't just smoke one joint, he had to smoke a whole bag of pot. He couldn't take one drink and had to drink a whole bottle. And then he was he couldn't write him. The good thing about it is he couldn't he wrote one song. No, he wrote 10 songs in a row. You know what I mean? He was very impulsive like that, you know. And it was still it was hard dealing with him a lot, you know, when it was the addictive Didi and uh the crazy Didi and uh unhappy Dee Dee, but there was a happy Didi too, you know.
SPEAKER_01:Now, did Didi stay involved after CJ took over playing bass?
SPEAKER_02:Yes, that was the beautiful part about that, is because at that time Didi was like he wasn't he wasn't there anymore. He didn't he said he didn't want to be in the Ramones army anymore, you know. And he was trying he tried that draft thing for a bit.
SPEAKER_01:That wasn't very good.
SPEAKER_02:Well, the group thought, you know, get do your rap album, get out of your system. Uh you know, fine, he'd still stay in Ramones, just get it that out of your system. He did that for a brief time, but it was just was wasn't happy with the at the end there. Um you know when he was playing on stage, it wasn't there anymore. It's like kind of like lack, lackluster, you know. So when he quit the group, everybody thought, you know, this is the end of the Ramones. I I pretty much thought that was pretty much, because he's the main songwriter and really great on stage in the early years when he wasn't spacing out to the end there. But uh Johnny said, no, no, we'll look for another bass player. Uh don't worry about it. Um, and they actually uh auditioned 20 different bass players. The first bass player they auditioned was was CJ. Oh and they actually picked him. Johnny saw something in CJ right away. So after looking through a number of other bass players, they picked CJ. Now, the beautiful part about that is so they have CJ comes into the group and he's like a young guy, and so they all kind of have this kind of suck in their stomachs to keep up with them, you know. So he he he injected some really life into the group at the time, but Didi stayed around, no, I didn't see around, he was there writing songs and giving them songs too. So they had a group wonderful Didi songwriting and a young Didi with its CJ there, you know. So that's the band like uh went on a number of years because of that.
SPEAKER_00:Now, I have to be honest, you know, Didi started wearing the tracksuits, and and you know, I think he had like Adidas or something. I got the no-name tracksuits. I'm like, if Didi Ramon can wear them, I can wear them. And it I I look back now and I'm glad there's no pictures of me because I looked absolutely horrific in those things.
SPEAKER_02:Well, that's a funny story. There we were going down to Washington, D.C., we were flying down there from New York from Ramon show, and Didi shows up in his jumpsuit and gold chains, and John Johnny flipped out. He said, What the fuck are you doing? What are you doing? You're in the remote. He was pissed off, you know. You can't draw a dress like that. He never did, you know, he never wore that again, basically. You know, minimal, you know. But he did try to get away with that in the beginning.
SPEAKER_00:So speaking of Johnny, you talk about in the book that he was very resistant to change. And they all were in many ways, but he was the most hell-bent about it. And he believed that they stumbled upon a good thing and there was no reason to tinker with it. And he saw bands come and go, but figure the Ramones would be like an institution, always there, always the same. And I tell you, I think that that is the greatest line from the standpoint the Ramones, the way people think of them today, it is an institution. You see these kids with Ramon shirts. I asked my daughter uh the other night, she's 24. I got her a Ramon shirt, she was in her teens. I'm like, hey, do you still have your Ramon shirt? She's like, Yeah. Now, she can't necessarily name a song by the Ramones, but she has that shirt. And she's like, Yeah, I wouldn't get rid of that shirt. You know, there's a lot of other things that as she's gotten older, she's gotten rid of, but she didn't get rid of that. And I really think that the Ramones are an institution, and as much as they didn't sell records the the way they wanted to, they have made such a huge impact on music. Something that do you think that they realized that in their lifetime, how big and important they were to so many people?
SPEAKER_02:No, they never figured that out. Unfortunately, they passed away before they became so big. I mean, you go to another thing is you go to sports events, you know, baseball, football, basketball, and then chanting, hey hell, let's go. Right. You know, it's it's on jock rock albums.
SPEAKER_03:Yes, yes.
SPEAKER_02:That's unbelievable. And uh and since I said, Yeah, I see people with the Ramone shirts. A lot of them know the Ramones, but a lot of them don't know the Ramones. It's just like the the iconic image, the all-American image of the band that they they try to put through with the with that logo, which our Toto Vega, I gotta give him credit, came up with. This amazing person.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, incredible, incredible.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, as I said, that the the the shirts like huge, the logo's big, and a lot of people take that took that logo and did other things with their own bands, kind of copied it. But um yeah, the these days, you know, people say in one shape, Ramones, Beatles stones in one breath, and it kind of makes me feel oh wow, this is unbelievable, you know.
SPEAKER_00:Well, uh think about it, Jimmy. I mean, we've probably talked about the Beatles, the Rolling Stones, and the Ramones more than any other band. You know, we're on episode 103. And if you think about it, that probably comes down to the bands we talk about the most.
SPEAKER_01:Well, and it's hard to say that any band from, say, the 80s on would be the same band they are without those three bands, right? With without at least one of them. You know, and any band that's like alternative or punk is completely standing on the shoulders of the Ramones.
SPEAKER_02:And I have I have I have a little joke they tell too many times, though. I mean, um, you know, seeing the Ramones talk with the same, you know, Beatles, Ramones, Stones, and all that. I said, if the Ramones were this big when I was working for them, I would have gotten a big raise. I mean, they're huge now. I mean, unfortunately, they're the four the originals, and I don't have to see how big they are, you know. And there's a Pfizer commercial out now that's a hey, hold on, let's go to the plane. I don't know if you've heard that recently. I did hear that. Yeah. They're playing that a lot. You know, it's amazing.
SPEAKER_00:You know, it is. So, where does all the money go today for all the shirts that people are buying?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. Well, uh they're basically over the years, Johnny and Joey formed a corporation after Didi left and and uh Tommy left early. They formed a corporation. And when uh Joey passed away, he left his half to his. It was Johnny and Joey in the corporation. When Joey passed away, he left half to his mother, and who his mother passed away left it to Mickey Lee, was Joey's brother. And Johnny married Linda, and he passed away and left it to Linda. So the main people on the Ramones corporation now are Linda and uh Mickey. And they there's money flowing in for them, let me tell you.
SPEAKER_00:I bet there is. I mean, seriously, I see Ramon shirts all the time. If you go into stores, you see them. They're everywhere. There's more Ramones stuff out today than I think what there was when I was a kid.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. It's all over they they merchandise a lot of stuff. But in the early years, I mean, merchandising was a part of the Ramones that that was really they they counted on that because they really weren't making a lot of money selling records. So touring and merchandising, selling t-shirts and other things at the at the venues was was their main income, basically.
SPEAKER_00:So a good friend of mine, a childhood friend of mine, so the how Tommy Ramon was to you meeting when you were a young age and you guys did a lot. For me, my childhood friend was Chris Cassidy. And Chris Cassidy um directed the Dennison Lois documentary.
SPEAKER_02:Oh.
SPEAKER_00:And you were you were on the Dennison Lois documentary, and you got to see uh Joey's pants that he had worn a thousand times. I'm just making that up, but it seemed like he wore them a lot. There are a lot of holes in them.
SPEAKER_02:And he didn't wore them a thousand times.
SPEAKER_00:And Dennison Lois had helped out with merchandising. It's kind of like their first date was going to CBGB's and you know, seeing the Ramones and saying, hey, you you know, you guys don't have to come running out here to do the stuff. We'll do it for you, and and so forth. What was it like to be able to get some fans that could help out and just do a little bit and take a little bit off the shoulders of of the band so that you could still sell stuff?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, well, um uh that was great for Arturo. Because initially, when we first when they first started out, they couldn't afford to have Arturo come on the road. So uh early on, and he said, Well, I'll print up some t-shirts and bring them on the road, and that'll pay for my way, his way on to tour with the Ramones early. So that's how the t-shirts started early on. He's he had a loft so he could print t-shirts and hang them up on pipes and the and he designed his shirts and stuff like that and silk screened them, brought them on the road. But he was also running lights too. He was also lighting director in the early years. So what he would do is like run the lights, and at the end of the set he put just like white lights on, run out to the front of the house, wherever it was, and sell shirts. So it was pretty crazy for him in the beginning. There, he was running back and forth, you know. After the show, he had to come out and sell shorts, shirts. So when Dennis and Lois came along, you know, that was a great help for him, you know.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, and I think for them it was great because they're like, oh yeah, we helped the Ramones with uh selling shirts, and then that led to this band and that band, you know.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, you know, they were really great. They were really great people to have on the road, you know, having super fans like that on the road with us uh when they came out and helping Arturo and selling shirts and stuff was really great. And yeah, and their house is insane. I mean, they can't their house is like wall to wall stuff, you know, of other not only remote. I don't know if you know you know about that, right?
SPEAKER_00:Yes, from the movie that you get to see.
SPEAKER_02:And it was Unbelievable that that house is like packed with stuff, you know?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. And you know, when you watch it and you watch, you know, the scenes that you're in, you almost look amazed when you're in that area where the Ramon stuff is, like, you can't even believe all the stuff that they have and that they actually have that pair of pants. I mean, if if you've not seen it, you should you know, to the listeners, you should check it out because this pair of pants, I don't know how anybody could put them on. They were so holy. It was it looked like it was impossible to be done. Um but, you know, very, very cool, you know, like again, how they were able to take it and and start doing, you know, merch for all these other bands, you know, that you know, whether it was Happy Mondays, Oasis, you know, just all these different bands that was just super cool. So if we if we go back to the old days here, and maybe you can help me understand this. Uh, math is not my my best thing here.
SPEAKER_02:It's funny because you're talking about Dennis and Lois. First of all, there's there's only one place in the world there's a Ramones museum that's in Berlin. Right. He's another person that has an incredible collection of just Ramon stuff, you know what I mean?
SPEAKER_03:Mm-hmm.
SPEAKER_02:So and but it's that's weird that it should be in New York, but of course that that never happened. They he opened up this museum in Berlin, a guy named Flo is a really wonderful. If you ever get to Berlin, you gotta go see it. Just reopened there recently.
SPEAKER_01:And you know, Berlin, uh, from old Hanoi to East Berlin, Commando involved again, you know.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. That was good, Jimmy. Thanks. And also, so I was doing this Midwestern thing. My friend Lauren Cone arranged that I could stay at this guy's last show was in Chicago at this guy's house, Bill. He's a huge Ramones fan. So I go down to this basement, his basement's just full of Ramones stuff. Wall-to-wall Ramone stuff. Unbelievable. You know, just almost like Dennis Muller, but it's you know, people collect stuff, you know. It's amazing.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, it really is. And like you mentioned, you know, Dennis and Lois, they collect they collect like everything.
SPEAKER_02:They have I mean, they got the house full of unbelievable other things there.
SPEAKER_00:And you know, toys and this and that, and you know, I remember reading in the book that if they played CBGBs three times a week at five dollars a head, and they kept the 3,000 they made off the 600 people at each show. What did CBGBs, how did they make money? Was it just from selling alcohol? I mean, if the Ramones were keeping all the money, what how did C BGBs operate? What was what was their take on stuff?
SPEAKER_02:No, that was just yeah, that no, we got the door basically. And we weren't uh we were a little suspicious of Hilly too, so we always had someone counting at the door on our own, you know what I mean? Right. No, that was part of the deal. Uh I mean, uh the door and it's Hilly's, you know, people come in and they bought a lot of you know, booze and whatever. Where he was he was and and and then C BGBs is happy with that, basically, in the in the early years. We that's the deal they had.
SPEAKER_00:And what did you think of going down to C BGBs at the time where I mean, if you think of all the bands that were, you know, playing there, whether it was the Ramones or whether it was uh Patty Smith group or Blondie or Television or Talking Heads or a number of different other bands, what was that scene like? And did you think that all these bands were, you know, not all of them, but a ton of these bands were going to blow up and be just huge?
SPEAKER_02:Well, you know, Seabees was at that time was a really crappy neighborhood. The Lower East Side was not a great place to be around uh, you know, there was like bums and flop houses and salvation army there, about bending buildings and junkies and stuff like that. But um also you could live down there pretty cheaply, you know, if you wanted to put up with all the craziness that was going on. So that's why a lot of bands moved down there and were in the neighborhood. And uh in early years, the only people in the in the in the CBGBs are the bands watching other bands, you know, because and they became very friendly with a lot of groups, you know, Blondie and Talking Heads and Patty Smith and Television and all the people that that were down there. That that's were the only the only people that were in the the uh C BGBs at that time were other bands. That was the beautiful part about uh Hilly, you know, at that time uh clubs just wanted you to play top 40 music. You couldn't go into a club and play anything but top 40 music. But Hilly says come into the club and do your own uh stuff. As long as people came in and drank, and he was happy about that, you know, had some people in the club. So that's the beautiful part about CBGB's having, you know, it gave it a shot to all these bands to uh work on their material. And MS the Ramones played low over 70 times. I don't know if you saw any early shows of the Ramones. It was raw. They had to work on their set, they had to work on their music, you know, they had to work on playing their instruments. That's the beautiful part about CBGB's. It gave all these bands opportunity to come in and work on their original stuff.
SPEAKER_00:And it worked out well for them. It worked out for many of the bands.
SPEAKER_02:Oh, yeah, definitely. And for Hilly too, it became that place became really famous world famous.
SPEAKER_00:If you think about it, that makes sense because how many times do you see somebody with a CBGB shirt on as well? That you know, Ramones, C BGB, you know, it it all makes sense. Um, it really does. So Tommy left the group in 1978, and it had an impact on the band in in multiple ways. And what was that like with Tommy leaving and bringing Marky in?
SPEAKER_02:Well, as I said earlier, Tommy brought the Ramones in as a three-piece group just to produce them and manage them, you know? And when it came when it came to point where they couldn't, Didi couldn't sing and play bass, they pulled Joey up the drums, they started looking for drummers, but no no drummers couldn't understand what they were doing early on. They just it was not there was just something from another world that these drummers would come in and just couldn't, they didn't know what to do. So Tommy would sit down on the drums and play along with them. He was actually a guitar player, but he was a great musician. But he developed a specific drum style for the Ramones, specific drum style. So they asked him to join the group. He could be he became Tommy Ramon. And I think 1974, uh August, they played their first show as a four-piece in C BGB's. That's how when they first started back then, C BGB's. So as I said, Tommy he just wanted to produce some management, but it was touring was for him was to too grinding. He just it was just too much for him, you know, to handle it. And it's it is it is a very dry grinding thing, you know, city after city, getting in and out of the van and uh driving hundreds of miles, and you know, stuff like that. In the early years was crappy hotels and small clubs. It was it was just it was it was hard. So he he had enough, and he said he he he decided he's gonna leave the band, but he's he was staying around and produced them and helped them with with their music. So that's what there was the good part about that whole thing, you know. And so so he he he left, and then uh when he when Marky they they knew Marky from CBGB's days. Um Marky's a great jumper. He's in a group like Dust and Richard Hell and the Voidoids. He was hanging around with them. They he they they knew each other pretty well, the band and and uh Marky. So uh, but when he first came in, uh Tommy had to sit down with him for a while, like a couple of weeks or about a month, and show Markey the specific style that Tommy created for the drumming star for the Ramones, you know?
SPEAKER_00:Right. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:So that's how so that's how Marky got into the group, and uh it was uh Tommy helped him get into it with the with the drum style he he developed.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, you mentioned uh he played with Richard Helen, the voidoids, and you know, a a real good song from the 70s is uh Blank Generation, a song I like a ton. Not better than any Ramon song, but I do like that song a lot. And Marky was Mark Bell at the time and was the drummer on that song.
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Did you ever hear his dust stuff? His heavy metal stuff is pretty good. I have not. Jimmy, have you? No, I haven't. Yeah, they should pick up that was before uh everything, you know, earlier early on, before hell and all that. Uh really good group. I think Kenny Aronson was in that group. I think he played with some other people later on, and uh it's a good group.
SPEAKER_00:Did you say Kenny Aronson was in that group?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, I think so. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Oh wow, yeah. I might have to check it out. So speaking of groups, I know that you dabbled a little bit in bands in the beginning. What um what was that like for you?
SPEAKER_02:Well, it was an experience. You know, as I said, I grew up with Tommy. We went to um junior high school together, and then we went to high school together, and then after we graduated high school, 1967, I saw wow. Um uh yesterday. Yeah, right. That's what I wish it was yesterday. Uh uh, he asked me to pick up a bass to play bass. I had never played any instruments before, but I picked it up pretty quickly. And as you see in the book, I formed a I was in several groups with Tommy before the Ramones, you know. One group was Triad, and another group was Butch. And then I got hooked up in between Triad and Butch. Uh there was a group called 30 Days Out. Uh, this guy named Jack Malakin had a recording studio as he putting together a band. And he asked Tommy and I to audition for it, but they didn't need another guitar player, so Tommy didn't make the band. But Jack got him some jobs um in a recording studio as assistant engineer. So that's when Tommy got involved in the recording aspect of it. And I joined this group 30 Days Out. We had two albums on one of the Trees 7172. And you know, and then I joined a group with with Tommy after that like a uh almost like a glam glam band there called Butch with Jeff Sandler in that group. Remember the Tough Tarts? I don't know if you remember the Tough Darts. Yeah. He was in that group with us. And uh then that was you know, I had a bit of a career playing bass there for a while.
SPEAKER_01:That's so cool.
SPEAKER_00:That is cool.
SPEAKER_01:So uh another thing you made me think about talking about uh Tommy and his producing was what a bold choice it was on that first record to put the guitar all the way to the left speaker and the bass all the way to the right. It was like such a something that would be on like a Beatles stereo album or something.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, though Tommy's very influenced with the Beatles stuff and like that. And also got credit to Craig Leon on that first album, too. He was producing, and Tommy was there right along with him, basically, you know? Mm-hmm.
SPEAKER_00:So I believe that we had in 2023, I think it was our sixth episode, if I'm not mistaken, Jimmy. We had your brother and a friend of yours that had gone to the Omni here in Atlanta, and they saw Black Sabbath, Van Halen with the Ramones opening up, and they only went for the Ramones.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, they left after the Ramones.
SPEAKER_00:They left after the Ramones, and they said there wasn't many people there for the Ramones, and and people didn't really like the Ramones. They didn't know who they were or what they were about. Trevor Burrus, Jr.
SPEAKER_01:But there was a group of like a hundred kids in the front going crazy.
SPEAKER_00:Right. Because they knew what it was about, and they all left. They could care less about Van Halen and they could care less about Black Sabbath. And I know you talk about that in the in the book, Monty, about, you know, different things with not being able to tour with the right bands because no one knew what to do with the Ramones, and finally the Ramones kind of said, we need to be the headliners because it's the only way.
SPEAKER_02:That was a problem with the booking agents. We went through a number of different booking agents, just didn't understand what the Ramones were, so they stuck them on shows. Well, in between filming for Rock and Roll High School, 1978, 79, 78, we had they weren't making a lot for the movie. They were only being paid like$25,000 for the movies, nothing. So they we had to get some gig uh gigs in between. We had like a week off in between filming. So they booked us for four shows with Black Sabbath back then. And now at that time, '78, not nobody knew what the Ramones were. But the heavy metal crowd didn't know the Ramones. Right.
SPEAKER_01:No.
SPEAKER_02:So that was a big problem when we went on then when the Ramones went on. They were throwing stuff and it was you know, they were throwing like coins and batteries, and it was kind of a little not very good at the times. Actually, an ice pick came up on stage to the s left. And so the heavy metal crowds didn't know anything about the Ramones, they didn't really like them. We played four shows with them. Of course, later on, you know, the the people like heavy metal crowds and uh uh Black Sabbath people got to love the Ramones after a while, you know. They they they they they they heard the Ramones and loved them, you know. So that that was and then another thing uh with booking agents. Uh another time they put us on a show with Toto, some Lake George, Louisiana.
SPEAKER_03:That was pretty cool.
SPEAKER_02:So the good thing about that is when by the time the Ramones got off stage, the the uh audience woke up. It was good. So it was, you know.
SPEAKER_01:So what what did the guys in the Ramones think about heavy metal and Black Sabbath and bands like that?
SPEAKER_02:They loved them, they loved, they were fans, you know. They loved they liked heavy metal and black sabbath and all that group. Uh they they they liked them, they like the groups, you know. But unfortunately, the the fans at that time didn't know anything about the Ramones, so they just did they weren't very intolerant with them. And and then when we did a show up in uh Canada and Toronto, uh opening up in Ted Nugent and Arrow Smith. And and at that time, the Canadian audience, they were just small throwing food on stage sandwiches and stuff like that.
SPEAKER_01:That's better than ice picks, yeah.
SPEAKER_02:And and and batteries, and there's a very fan, there's a famous shot. There's a uh uh a photo out there with right at the end, they played a number of songs, but they they walked off stage, they gave the finger to like the 30,000 people in the in the in the audience there in the in the big stadium. They just gave everybody the finger walking off stage. I think I've seen that. So that was a problem. So the you know, booking agents didn't understand them, and so they figured they almost figured let's just headline you know, not smaller venues in the beginning, and uh it'll be it better to just uh headline than open up for these crazy groups, you know. I think the way opened up once for like Mike Oldfield, Tubular Bells, that was in Spain. That was wow.
SPEAKER_00:So, Monty, you know, I mentioned that I grew up, you know, in New York, and when I think of New York bands, the Ramones is the first band that I think of when I think of a New York band. Yet they were successful in becoming this huge band eventually throughout the country and and throughout the world. But yet, no matter what, I never really thought of them any different. I always still thought of them as a New York band.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, well, like they try to keep that that image going, you know, with the with the with the way they looked with the leather jackets and the well, something with the American, American feel. Like uh Arturo tried to create with the with the logo an American feel for the band, you know?
SPEAKER_00:Like a presidential feel almost, you know.
SPEAKER_02:Well, that's where it came from. Actually, one day they were in DC and Arturo saw the presidential seal. That's the presidential seal. He took that and rearranged it uh into the to the logo. Instead of like one side, the uh Eagles holding uh arrows and and the other and in the logo, he's they're the Eagles holding a baseball bat. What's more American than baseball? Right, right. They had a song Beat on the Brat with a baseball bat, so that was good. And the uh original uh uh presidential seal of Eagles holding a uh olive branch and um Artur made into apple branches, you know.
SPEAKER_01:And the banner, I think, says like in God we trust, but instead it says hey ho, let's go, right?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, originally it said look out below.
SPEAKER_01:That was out below. Okay.
SPEAKER_02:And when the Litchkrieg Bach became very popular, he put in Hey Ho, let's go. And then the beautiful part about their logo is around the circumference, you plug and play the different members in the band when they came in and out. Right, right. So the logo changed, but you you know, just plugging and playing the different members in. That was the beautiful part about it. Artara's an amazing person. Incredible artist, wonderful lighting director, artistic director for the band. I'm just a shame he's gone.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, he he came up with uh a ton of the backdrops for the stage shows, right?
SPEAKER_02:He actually put he actually made a lot of early backdrops in his in his apartment. Yeah, big loft, and he was there's a picture of him in, I think it's in my book. Uh he's on the floor there creating uh the logo, uh uh backdrop. He was a great artist. He was a wonderful artist. And in his lighting, his lighting, like you used a lot of red, white, and blue lights and white lights, it's just to give that stark white feel for the Ramones and a red, white, and blue American feel. So he was he was a wonderful lighting director, artistic director.
SPEAKER_00:So at shows when pinhead is played live, one of the road crew would come out and they put on like the pinhead mask.
SPEAKER_01:Zippy the pinhead.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, and have the sign that said, you know, gabba gaba hey. And I read in your book that Eddie Vetter did that once. He was like a guest pinhead.
SPEAKER_02:Well it's always a drum road that did the uh the uh pinhead on that side of the stage. Uh and we actually got the original, the original pinhead was uh there was a cone head uh and uh Ramon's t-shirt, the the uh drum road would come out with for the movie Rock and Roll High School. They made the pinhead mask. We got to keep that.
SPEAKER_00:Right.
SPEAKER_02:That was made by a very famous um special effects artist, Rob Bowton. He did a lot of special effects for the uh different movies. So we got to keep that. So that was always the drum roadies um part. We put the uh mask on, come out with the sign, and later on uh one of our crew, Mitch Bubbles Keller, had the dress made along because they they always saw Zippy the Pinhead, was uh from Bill Griffin's uh early uh underground comics, so they had him in his mind. And they originally rambling on here, they originally saw, and we had a day off in Cleveland because we had an outdoor show and it got rained out, so they they went to the movies and saw freaks. Yeah, 1932 Todd Browning movie Freaks. Uh are you familiar with that movie?
SPEAKER_01:I knew that's where it came from, yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Yes, they're real they're real freaks in the movie. They took they actually that movie got banned in in uh in England. It was real freaks and pinheads. So they saw the pinhead in the movies, and let's see the pinheads in that movie. They're very famous. So they said, and they wrote the song from that movie.
SPEAKER_01:And and Gabba Gabba, we accept you. That's that's from that movie.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, yeah. There's a scene where they're the their pinhead, the pinhead, they're there's a scene where one of the freaks sing Google Gobble, Google, gobble, we accept our we accept our one of us. And they write, they rewrote, they wrote the pinhead song, Gabba, Gabba, we accept you, we accept you from that movie. And then they got the pinhead mask later on. And yes, you a lot of famous people did want to play the pinheads. Um, it was crazy. Eddie Fedder did it once, Rob Zombie did it once, Lars from uh Lars from Nancy did it once. People come up with him, well, they wanted to put on the mask and put on the dress. It was crazy.
SPEAKER_03:Wow.
SPEAKER_02:Actually, one yeah, it was amazing. Uh actually, one time we had some stage fans on the side of the stage, and um and the drum roller cut his hand bad. So luckily at the end of the set, they took him off. I was standing there, and so I actually put the pinhead on once I did the pinhead, but what that mask stunk. Boy, I said I'm never gonna do pinheads again.
SPEAKER_00:I I bet you're not gonna be able to do it.
SPEAKER_02:But people wanted to do it, they wanted to come out and run around with the pinhead on. It was crazy.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, you know, it's been a lot of fun talking about the Ramones, you know, with you, and there's so many songs. We could sit here and talk about, you know, just all the songs and the different people that have been in the band. But I think, you know, Johnny hit it right with saying that they were an institution and and not even realizing at the time, you know, when he was thinking it. I mean, they really are an institution still. And if you look, I think 20 years from now and 30 years from now and 50 years from now, as long as people are still listening to music, the Ramones are going to be one of the bands that people listen to.
SPEAKER_02:Well, you know, I think the legacy of the Ramones, like, you know, when like Johnny Appleseed would go around all over the place planting apples all over the country. I think that's what the Ramones did also when they would they would go out and play all these small clubs or countries early on, and these kids would see them. And they would they they said if they remones gonna do it, it wasn't hard enough to be Ginger Baker and Eric Clapton or anything, just good songs and competent play your music good. And all these all these kids saw them playing and they formed bands and they and they gave credit to the Ramones. Metallica, Soundgarden, U2, uh Pearl Jam. They all said to the Ramones, we saw you as kids, and that's why we formed groups and gave them credit. I think that's the legacy of the Ramones. Absolutely.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I would definitely agree with you on that. I mean, it's just if you think about it, like if the Ramones never happened, if it what where would we be? You know, it just they were the right band at the right time with the right sound and the right attitude. I mean, I think it took all four of them, the different personalities that we talked about, in order to be able to become the Ramones, that is this lasting legacy.
SPEAKER_02:I agree. It's like the Beatles, you know. All the different members had formed the Beatles, you know, and individually they weren't the Beatles, you know.
SPEAKER_00:That is true. That is true. So, Mani, it's been excellent having you on the show. Um, you know, you have this book on the road with the Ramones, the bonus edition. Like you mentioned earlier, there are a ton of pictures in here. It's good reading. The print is big too for someone like myself as I've gotten older. That's good. It really is a good book. And like I mentioned in the beginning, you think you know something about a band, but you don't know half of it until you read this book. And it it's a really cool thing that you've done here. I know that you just did a spoken word tour out in the Midwest. What was that like for you and what was the reception?
SPEAKER_02:It was good. People really enjoyed it. I was able to uh, you know, it's hard because I was talking trying to talk about 20 years in a remote in an hour and a half, and it was it was it was difficult trying to put everything into the I had a little PowerPoint with the pictures and some videos and and some songs and stuff like that. It was good. People like enjoyed it. I sold some books and uh I might be doing it again next year when uh the anniversary, the first uh album comes up, 50 years.
SPEAKER_00:Wow. That's that's almost hard to believe. It really is. You know, for me, uh, you know, I feel like I've I don't remember not hearing the Ramones, I guess is what I'm trying to say. You know, I remember the Ramones in the 70s, I remember rock and roll high school, like the movie was coming out and it was like, oh wow, you know, I was this young kid, but I always remember the Ramones. They were one of those bands that I can't remember when did I hear them the first time because I think I've always heard them. Does that, you know, does that make sense?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:You know, that's good.
SPEAKER_02:That's good.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. Yeah, I was I was saying Sheena as a punk rocker was the first song I remember hearing because it was weird. Like it was on Leave Home and it was also on Rocket to Russia. The the the copies that my brother had, one was an import, one wasn't, something like that. And it was on both of the albums. But we we had Rocket to Russia, and that's the first song I heard, and I was hooked when I was about eight.
SPEAKER_00:Jimmy is a punk rocker.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, that's that's good. All right. Keep it up. Gobba Gobble Hey.
SPEAKER_00:Gobba Gabba Hey. You know, it's funny because I do this thing when people call up on Thanksgiving. Uh my phone rings and I'm like, happy Thanksgiving from the Thanksgiving turkey, wishing you and yours the very best in this holiday season, gobble gobble hey. And I do that every year. That's my little tribute to the Ramones. I just have always done that.
SPEAKER_02:That's a good one. I've I've seen that before. That's good. That's good. I like that coop. That's nice.
SPEAKER_00:Well, thank you. And Bonnie, it's been great. I really enjoyed having you on here. I know Jimmy enjoyed it as well. It's been fun, you know, for Jimmy, his favorite band, the Ramones, and to have the tour manager on. He's like a kid in a candy shop over here.
SPEAKER_01:Scoop. Yeah, we love it. Thank you so much. Um, happy to be uh on your program here.
SPEAKER_00:And again, On the Road with the Ramones, a fantastic book by Monty A. Melnick and Frank Meyer, the bonus edition. It's got like 40 additional uh pages. It has a show that I couldn't ever find that I was at, but in this book, it lists all the shows, and I can find it in this book. So this book is the real deal. So I like it. So thank you, Monty. We really appreciate it. Thank you for coming on the show.
SPEAKER_02:Thanks again, Monty. Thanks, guys. It was a pleasure doing it.
SPEAKER_00:Thank you. You have a great day. You too. All right. Take care. Bye. Bye-bye. That was fantastic. That was great. Hey, if you want to reach us here at Music in My Shoes, you can at musicIndMyshoes at gmail.com. Please like and follow the Music in My Shoes Facebook and Instagram pages. That's it for episode 103 of Music in My Shoes. I'd like to thank Monty A. Melnick, on the road with the Ramones, tour manager from 1974 until the end of 1996. What a fantastic guest to have on and really enjoyed it. I'd also like to thank Jimmy Guthrie, show producer and owner of Arcade 160 Studios, located right here in Atlanta, Georgia, and Vic Thrill for our podcast music. This is Jim Boge, and I hope you learned something new or remembered something old. We'll meet again on our next episode. Until then, live life and keep the music playing.
