May Pang on John Lennon and "The Lost Weekend", A Love Story E121

We sit down with May Pang to unpack John Lennon’s misnamed “Lost Weekend” and reveal a season of creative fire, repaired friendships, and family reconnection. May shares what really happened across those 18 months: the studio grind behind Mind Games, Walls and Bridges, and Rock ’n’ Roll; and the bet that led to a thunderous Thanksgiving return with Elton John.

We walk through May’s unexpected path from Abkco assistant to John and Yoko's personal assistant to John's trusted partner. She opens the door to an East River apartment where Paul and Linda knock unannounced and Julian finds a steady line to his dad. May explains how weekly calls, shared holidays, and respectful honesty gave John room to repair family ties long strained by distance and noise.

There’s myth‑busting, too: where the money came from, who actually held the checkbook, how the LA antics got amplified, and why the “Lost Weekend” nickname came from John’s own movie‑minded metaphor rather than a spiral. We even pause on a close, silent UFO over Manhattan—witnessed by both May and John—because history is sometimes stranger than rumor.

If you care about Beatles history, rock history, or simply how creativity survives under pressure, this conversation reframes a legend with first‑hand detail and generous nuance. Hit play, then share this with a friend who still thinks “Lost Weekend” means lost time. And if the story moved you, follow the show, leave a quick review, and tell us: what part of Lennon’s 70s era do you see differently now?

Learn Something New or
Remember Something Old

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Reach out to us at musicinmyshoes@gmail.com

EXHIBITION DATES

Friday, February 27 – Sunday, March 1

Macon, GA

“The Lost Weekend – The Photography of May Pang” featuring May Pang appearance

Gallery West, 447 3rd Street, Macon, GA

Hours: Friday 12p – 7p (opening reception 5p – 7p), Saturday 11a – 5p & Sunday, 12p – 4p

Friday, March 13 – Sunday, March 15

Jacksonville, FL

Gallery 725, 13475 Atlantic Blvd, Jacksonville, FL

“The Lost Weekend – The Photography of May Pang” featuring May Pang appearance

Hours: Friday 5p – 8p, Saturday 1p – 6p and Sunday 12p – 4p

Friday, March 20 – Sunday, March 22, 2026

Winter Garden, FL (Orlando, FL)

The Grotto at Stoneybrook West, 12572 Stoneybrook West Pkwy, Winter Garden, FL

“The Lost Weekend – The Photography of May Pang” featuring May Pang appearance

Hours: Friday 4p – 7p, Saturday 12p – 6p & Sunday, 12p – 4p

Saturday, March 28 – Saturday, April 4

“Flower Power Cruise featuring the Beach Boys, Rascals, Micky Dolenz, Tommy James, Cowsills & more!

Fort Lauderdale, FL

Friday, April 17 – Sunday, April 19, 2026

Roanoke, VA

Wilson Hughes Gallery, 117 Campbell Ave SW, Roanoke, VA

“The Lost Weekend – The Photography of May Pang” featuring May Pang appearance

Hours: Friday 4p – 7p, Saturday 12p – 6p & Sunday, 12p – 4p

Tuesday, April 21 & Wednesday, April 22

Richmond, VA

anne’s Visual Art Studio gallery, 208 W. Broad Street, Richmond, VA

“The Lost Weekend – The Photography of May Pang” featuring May Pang appearance

Hours: 1p – 7p

Friday, April 24 – Sunday, April 26, 2026

Virginia Beach, VA

Stravitz Sculpture & Fine Art Gallery, 1217 Larkin Rd, Virginia Beach, VA

“The Lost Weekend – The Photography of May Pang” featuring May Pang appearance

Hours: Friday 10a – 6p, Saturday 10a – 6p & Sunday, 12p – 4p

Friday, June 5 – Sunday, June 7

Rochester, MN

Studio 324 (First Floor in the Fagan Studios Bldg.), 324 Broadway Ave S, Ste 100, Ro

Transcript

Welcome And Guest Introduction

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Hi, this is May Pang, and you're listening to Music in My Shoes.

May Pang’s Early Beatles Memories

SPEAKER_05 0:26

Hey everybody, this is Jim Boge, and you're listening to Music in My Shoes Podcasting Worldwide. That was Vic Thrill kicking off episode 121. I'm thrilled to be here with you. Let's learn something new or remember something old. Back in 1973 until early 1975, former Beatle John Lennon shared an 18-month weekend, as we say, with May Peng. May has a documentary out, The Lost Weekend, a Love Story, and in studio with us, we are so lucky to have none other than May Peng to talk about it with us. May welcome to Music in My Shoes.

SPEAKER_01 1:07

Well, thank you for having me, Jim.

SPEAKER_05 1:09

You're welcome. This is uh quite the honor. You know, everybody wants to be close to a beetle, and if you can't be close to a beetle, listen, I had a I had a different experience at one point.

SPEAKER_01 1:23

Yes, we all wanted to be close to a beetle when you're growing up, you know, that time period, the baby boomers. But it was funny. Um I just remember one day somebody said, uh, oh, who's your favorite beetle? Immediately I went, Oh, Ringo. And I stopped. And then I realized, uh, we're talking when I was 13, right? And I didn't hear anything. And I said, it is when I was 13. We're talking about when I was 13, right? And then I hear, yeah, yeah, okay, fine. And I went, oh God, no. You know, I who would have thought that I would be asked that question by another beetle about who's my favorite beetle. But I'm saying, it's 13. I'm in, you know, I'm in my 20s now. What do you what do you want? And then of course that night we were uh attending a party and Ringo was there, and I said, Oh God, hope John doesn't do something stupid. Of course he did. I'm standing there and then he goes, Oh, by the way, and I just sort of looked at John like, Don't don't do it. Please don't do it. He goes, You know you were her favorite. I went. If there was a hole in the ground, I probably would have jumped into it.

SPEAKER_05 2:39

Hey, there's nothing wrong with with any of them being your favorite. But I guess if you're with John Lennon, then there is uh you're not supposed to.

SPEAKER_01 2:47

It's like if you're with your wife, your girlfriend, your husband, your boyfriend, you're supposed to say who's the right. But how was I gonna know that he was gonna ask me that stupid question at that moment? And I immediately went.

SPEAKER_06 2:59

Do you think he would have reacted the same way if you'd said your favorite was Paul or George?

Training Under Allen Klein

SPEAKER_01 3:04

He I think so. He would have just said the same thing. I mean because he just sort of like, uh-huh. And I went, oh boy.

SPEAKER_05 3:11

So let's go back to the beginning. You started as an assistant to John and Yoko in nine, yes, in 1970, late 70. And it was through working for Alan Klein. Yes, Abco Records.

SPEAKER_01 3:24

And I gotta tell you, that was the best training ground that I've ever had because people don't understand. He really was ahead of his time. Not only were that he managed Apple and Three of the Beatles, which was John, George, and Ringo, uh, he had the Apple publishing and all that stuff. But at the same same time, he was managing the Rolling Stones. He still had them. So, yes, so I also learned about publishing with the Stones. I also, let's see, the Cameo Parkway, which he had all that, and uh the Cag's music, which was all of Sam Cook.

SPEAKER_06 3:59

Oh, nice. Tell me, I mean, really, and for our listeners, you know, to rewind just a little bit, it's not like May got this job from a connection that she had. May marched into the building, found her way up to the floor, and presented herself and said, Hey, I just listen, I need a job.

SPEAKER_01 4:16

I I was thinking just being a receptionist, I had no skills, but they said, okay, and they gave me a chance and they, you know, and I wanted to learn. And that was where it started, and that's how and that's how it started all around. And uh, I'm grateful for that opportunity because yeah, okay, I got the job, but I had to know what to do with it. You know, I knew to stay there. You just you can get the job, but you know, you gotta learn how to do the job, and it's great.

SPEAKER_05 4:45

Yeah, so you got to work with Alan Klein. You mentioned that he had three of the Beatles. Paul McCartney, I believe, was with Linda Eastman's dad?

SPEAKER_01 4:54

Yes. Lee.

SPEAKER_05 4:55

And you know, I guess that had part of why they didn't want to be together anymore. They had animosity.

SPEAKER_01 5:02

Well, you know, what the one thing I remember, John, at at that time, and you know, things change, time, you know, uh reasons change, but at the time, uh, you know, John felt, oh no, no, no, I'm not gonna go with somebody who's related to that person because then they have one leg up on the situation no matter what it is.

SPEAKER_03 5:22

Right.

SPEAKER_01 5:22

And that's really where it came from, because then Paul, uh Paul's father-in-law was with if he's managing, who's he gonna favor? You know, that's how they you know, John says, Oh no, no, we're going somewhere else.

Imagine Film At Tittenhurst Park

SPEAKER_05 5:35

That's when it's that makes sense. I can understand that. Yeah. So, you know, you learned the ropes, you were working in as an assistant. You know, we talk about this documentary, you know, uh The Lost Weekend, a love story. I watched it a few times. It is awesome. So for anyone that has not seen it, you definitely want to check it out. I watched it on Prime, I think it's available on a couple of other streaming services.

SPEAKER_01 6:02

Which I actually happen to like Tubi a lot, uh, to get some of my favorite English uh programs on there. Um and you know, also on Roku, so it's on a streaming platform that somebody can get to see this movie.

SPEAKER_05 6:15

So you went to England, you went to uh their home, John and Yoko's home.

SPEAKER_01 6:21

Tithurst Park, yes.

SPEAKER_05 6:22

And again, this is something I knew nothing about, and I just thought it was so cool to be there while they are filming the Imagine video.

SPEAKER_01 6:32

Right.

SPEAKER_05 6:32

And I think that you picked the clothes out.

SPEAKER_01 6:34

Well, it was actually Imagine the film. It wasn't just the it just wasn't for that particular song. Oh it was called Imagine, and it was a film made in 72, uh, or edited and finished in 72, but it was this was I was there in 71 and it had already started, and it was a a combination of a lot of different things, and they were making their videos or actually film to their songs, you know, the album. So you're talking about each song and their that little clips of everything. They were still filming when they came to New York. I mean, it was just like a long thing, but um it was called Imagine, and in it, of course, you get the Imagine song that we see today. And we I was picking out all the the clothes and making sure because that was filmed in uh in Tittenhurst, that that particular scene, that song. And it was just it was really very simple. It was in the great room. The house was really um a Georgian house where they had small rooms everywhere, and when they got a hold of this house, they tore down the walls to make big rooms. I remember going on the property and they were filming. There's a scene where they have water, a little lake, and I remember saying, you know, I'm staring out, and John comes and he stands next to me and he looks at me and he goes, What do you think? I said, It's great. And he goes, Do you like the lake? I said, Oh, I love it. I think it's fabulous. He goes, Yeah, except for the rubber bottom. And I looked at him. I said, The rubber bottom. He had the lake put in because there was no lake there.

Julian’s Calls And Gatekeeping

SPEAKER_05 8:07

Oh. Learn something new on Music in My Shoes about the lake at John Lennon's home. So you talk a lot about Julian Lennon. Julian Lennon was John's son from his first wife, Cynthia. And kind of about the relationship that had been strained. And then, you know, I guess Julian was reaching out. And as I watch it, and you talk about Julian calling and Yoko kind of screening the calls and not letting all the c calls go through. I can't imagine anybody doing that. What was that like?

SPEAKER_01 8:43

It was very difficult for me, having met Julian in London, or you know, in England at the time, and he hadn't spoken to him in two and a half years or so, and and and I thought, oh great, you know, he's calling. And the calls always, you know, had to be um had to go through Yoko first. And I told her, I said, you know, Julian's on the phone for John. And she just said, not now. No, uh get rid of the call. And it was very hard for me to understand that. And it wasn't just once, it happened a few times. And I it really was difficult, you know, to have that.

SPEAKER_05 9:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 9:28

I mean it And you don't question it, you're working, you know, you don't question the the you don't question the boss.

SPEAKER_05 9:34

Right. And I guess that's it's gotta be tough, not questioning the boss because you have two bosses.

SPEAKER_01 9:40

Yes.

SPEAKER_05 9:41

And what is the right thing to do exactly it's gotta put you in a really tough situation.

SPEAKER_01 9:47

I had never told John the scenario. Never told him. Even when I was with him. I never I never told him because to me to say something like that to him time, you know, many months or later to say this is what happened, you know, everybody already would have had their set up in their mind what they what their answer would be. And to bring John to that spot is going backwards. You can't, you know, and I think it's to any of us. If someone said, Do you remember when? And you go, and you have to think about it. So it's too it's too difficult. That makes sense.

SPEAKER_05 10:28

I mean it does really make sense.

SPEAKER_01 10:30

So the only things I never told John. So I if the thing happened at that moment, that's a different story. So if something happened right now and I could we could relate because it's happening at the moment, but if it's happened sometime a year uh before, how do you deal with that? What would you would say, what do you mean? And you would have more questions than answers.

From Assistant To Partner

SPEAKER_05 10:51

True. I get it. So let's talk about your relationship with John. How did it go from being an assistant to being basically his girlfriend?

SPEAKER_01 11:02

That's something that somebody should say, ask Yoko what was her reasoning. But um it was one morning when I I came into work and I'm sitting down getting ready for the day for my for my work, and she walks into my office and she says, I have something to talk to you about. And I'm thinking, Oh, another project, you know, it's always piling up. And I go, Okay, and I'm ready. And she goes, You know, John and I are not getting along. And I said, Oh, I'm sorry to hear that. Meanwhile, of course, if you work there, you feel it, you know it, it's all there. And um, and she goes, and she says to me, she goes, you know, he's gonna start seeing other people. And I'm looking at her like, okay, you know, what does that mean? And I'm thinking, oh, so now there's an X factor, you know, him, her, and whoever this next person will be. This is kind of weird. And then all of a sudden she turns to me, she goes, you know what, you don't have a a a boyfriend. And I and all of a sudden, like, I'm in this days, and I'm like, No, I don't want him. You know, all of a sudden I'm like, Don't look at me, I don't care about him. You know, she says, Oh, May, you should go out with him. I said, No, I I don't want him. She goes, I know you're not looking to go after him, but you should go out and you'll be nice for him for him. And I said, No, I that's not my thing. And um, and she was insistent, she goes, You don't want him to go out with somebody that's not going to treat him nice. I said, Of course not. But I'm not it. You know, I kept insisting. This is after working for them for three years. I said, I'm not interested in this.

SPEAKER_05 12:29

So do you think she was totally serious right from the beginning, or do you think she was joking and trying to feel you out?

SPEAKER_01 12:38

Um she doesn't really joke. There's no such thing as joking with her. So when she brought uh brought that up to me, I'm looking at her like, no. And this is before my first cup of coffee. I'm like freaking out. And I'm thinking, okay, I'm not good with this. And she says, No, I think you should go out with him. And she gets up and walks out of the room. I'm sitting there, I'm literally in tears because I don't know what's going on. Because this is not something I signed up for. And you're how old at this time? At that point, 22, not not yet 23.

SPEAKER_05 13:10

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 13:11

So I'm sitting there just sort of, you know, in a daze. And we were just going through everything and and just finished recording her stuff, getting in the studio to do mind games, which is his stuff, and we were in the middle of mind games because um Well, Mind Games sounds like it was a really good choice for an album and a song with everything that's going on. Exactly. The whole thing is that John didn't even know that she was doing this.

SPEAKER_05 13:37

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 13:38

Because I always because at the end, when we did get together, I asked him, I said, please tell me your side. And she's he says, He was sleeping. She came in and says, I fixed it for you. And he's going, What are you talking about? So he she was doing all this. So and he's going, What do you you know, he's like, he wouldn't come out of his bedroom. I didn't want to come out of my office, and there was nobody to talk to about this. So I just remembered Yoko coming to me and saying, John wants to cancel today's session. I'm going, Yes, I need to go home. I need to sort out what's going on here. And I, you know, I ran home and I I I was just in shock. I was still, you know, what do you what do you do? And I'm thinking, maybe she'll forget by the morning. You know, maybe this is just one of those whims that she would have. And let me let me go home.

SPEAKER_05 14:33

And she didn't forget.

Leaving For Los Angeles And The Myths

SPEAKER_01 14:35

No. She didn't forget. She was just sort of okay, uh, you should go out with John. I said, no. And I kept saying no. But this went on for a while. I I kept refusing. John wouldn't come out of his room for a while. That was the two of us, just like, neither one of us wanted to come out of the room. She was pushing so hard that in the end, this is like after a couple of weeks or so, and he's going, he goes, you know what? You're gonna push me? Now I'm gonna go for it. Okay. The myth has it, and I say it's a myth, because the storyline has it that um Yoko sent us out there. That was the line that everybody reads, and that's not what happened. What happened was that uh John's lawyer was in town and Yoko was out of town on some women's conference. So uh John was sitting there and was talking to his lawyer, Harold Sider, and said, So Harold, when are you going back to LA? Because he worked, he lived in LA. He says, I'm on a plane tonight. So he cut and tried. He says, I'm on a plane tonight. He goes, What time? Six o'clock. And I says, Okay. And he looks at me and he looks at Harold and he says, Well, May and I will be on that plane with you. Just made that just this. And I'm standing there going, We are? Oh my gosh. All right. So yeah, I know, right? And I'm going, all right.

SPEAKER_05 15:50

Pack quickly.

SPEAKER_01 15:51

Pack quickly. And I that's exactly I had to make the plans, I had to make the tickets. It was my first time I was ever in first class. So I was like, yeah. And uh it was so it's exciting on that level. And one other thing. Elliot Mintz did not pick us up at the airport because that's what it's uh that's also written about, and that's not what happened. He did not know we were together, so he couldn't pick us up. In fact, it was Harold and his people that were picking him up. That that, and when they were picking him up, they noticed that we were attached to Harold.

SPEAKER_06 16:25

So I was wondering, you mentioned that it was the first time you flew first class, but then you get to Los Angeles and you weren't exactly living first class because you were on a$3,000 stipend that the Beatles had.

SPEAKER_01 16:38

But the$3,000 stipend that we had went mainly to the Dakota.

SPEAKER_06 16:42

Oh.

SPEAKER_01 16:43

And so what happened, and here's another myth. Uh, I wrote about this in my book in '83. But we that and I talk about it then, so you know, whatever everybody likes to say somewhere else. I had heard that it was in Elliot's recent book that he was the one that gave the check of the$10,000 we borrowed money from from Capitol Records. And according to uh what I'd heard about it was that Elliot gave uh the check from Yoko to to give to John. That's ridiculous. It was Harold Sider who arranged to run against royalties at Capitol and borrowed the money then, and I held on to the checkbook. Ah. Yes. So that was where the money was. And so it was not the other way that I had heard about, and I said, that's ridiculous. I had the checkbook.

SPEAKER_06 17:35

And there was also uh according to the documentary, a good bit of uh dinners where people would take you both out.

SPEAKER_01 17:43

Yes, they would take us out, and that was lovely. That's always best. I mean, if you can get John Lennon into your home, I think you know, most of them would be happy to pay for the dinner. Right. Um, but when we went out with other friends, he paid for the dinner.

SPEAKER_05 17:58

Yeah, so the Lost Weekend. So how did the name come up? It was not a weekend, it was 18 months roughly. Like, where did that all come from?

Money, Checkbooks, And Who Paid What

SPEAKER_01 18:06

I think it was later. It's only dubbed m much later. It wasn't at the time, but I think towards the end of uh one of the interviews in 1980, somewhere around there, it was asked about John and his antics in in uh LA and all that stuff, because everybody thought we lived there. We never lived in LA, but you never hear about the antics in New York, because with New York we were very quiet, but in LA you had all your friends, you know, Harry Nielsen, who I always said was the instigator, he loved to party, and that's what we ended up. Um but we but we lived in New York, and so when he was doing the interview, they they asked him about you know what was it like, you know, with your friends and going being thrown out of places and whatever, and he says, you know, he goes, it was it was a metaphor, he liked to use movies, you know. So he said it's like a long lost weekend, you know, with uh Ray Milan. And he goes, because that was the the the idea, and he goes, that's what it was. And so it got dubbed that. And it wasn't about my relationship with John, but everybody made it that. So when I said that I was with John, they go, When? And I go, you know, I was in LA. Well, what year? And when you give them the year, they still don't know. And then when you say Lost Weekend, they go, Oh, I know that period. So it just got stuck. So that's the period. I mean, people know that time period as the lost weekend, that's what it was. It wasn't um, you know, it wasn't because it was our, you know, it was uh a lost weekend. He was not an alcoholic, which I really take offense to. We didn't have liquor at home to to for people to say, oh, you know, he drank every night. He went out a couple of times. If you keep reading it, it's only a couple of times that they keep regurgitating, as I would say, the press. Right. But those are the and it's made it sound like we were drunk all the time. And I drank Coca-Cola like there's no tomorrow. I'm in the right city for that right now. That's right.

SPEAKER_05 19:59

Yes, you are broadcasting live from Atlanta. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 20:03

And that's and that was it. And in fact, the my fridge was covered with bottles of Coca-Cola, and and that was it. That's what I drank all the time.

SPEAKER_05 20:13

Press just wants to find the worst in everybody. I know, and that's what sold newspapers back in the day.

SPEAKER_01 20:19

Well, that was the whole idea. So I would say, I said, when you go to look at at us at the Troubadour, and it's Harry and it's John, they didn't go to Harry, they went to John because he made the best copy. Who are you gonna have as your front page news? Harry Nielsen or John Lennon? Who's gonna make the better copy? Who's gonna sell that newspaper? And that's really what it came down to.

SPEAKER_05 20:40

So on the show, we've talked about John joining Elton John for Thanksgiving 1974, and for me, it's a big moment. I remember when I was a kid the first time I ever heard it, and was just so excited that you could hear John playing music again, playing live. And what was that like at that time for him to be going back out on stage when he didn't really do it a whole lot?

Press, Party Stories, And Reality

SPEAKER_01 21:10

No, he didn't, but I guess what he um he was nervous. We went out uh with Elton on his jet, another one of those things that you know you do once in a lifetime on his private jet, and we went to one of the shows. Because, you know, when he made the bet with Elton, he really didn't think it was going to be number one, which is whatever gets you through the night. Right. Right? And when it did hit number one, and Elton said it will be, um, he was real I mean, John was really uh thrilled. It's it is only number one song he had in his lifetime in a single. That's unbelievable. Right it is, it really is and nobody realizes that. And so that became in nineteen seventy four, uh, which was the milestone fifty years ago. We haven't celebrated that yet, but it was in you know, seventy four. A number one single with a number one album. And it was thrilling for John. We went out to LA and we saw all the the three music newspapers: Cashbox, Record World, and Billboard. And we took photos with everybody. And we did that, and then we flew back. When we saw Elton, Elton was gracious enough to say, Listen, you don't want to do it, that's fine. And so John said, No, a bet is a bet. And we flew up with him to the Boston Gardens to see the show, just to get the feel. And the two of us were sitting in the audience, and people were looking up and they're going, those two people, that somebody, that guy looks familiar up there, you know. We're sitting alone. Um, and John wanted to get up and he goes, Oh, I want to go back and tour. About after about half hour, he went, cancel that. He goes, he goes, What had happened was he realized, he goes, they're only gonna rely on me. As in the group when he was with the Beatles, everybody shared the the singing, the whole thing. So now he realizes it's only gonna be me. If he had held on a little longer, he could be like Ringo, you know, the all-stars, and that would have been great. But that's what he what it was. And you know, so uh, but he enjoyed himself. He was nervous. There's no two ways about it. He was extremely nervous, but he enjoyed it. Once it was done, it was it was great.

SPEAKER_05 23:22

I think it's one of the in the top 20 greatest musical moments without thinking. You know, when you look at everything that has gone on in music, I think that's one of the top 20.

SPEAKER_01 23:35

When because it was Thanksgiving, we had gone out for Thanksgiving at uh Seymour Stein's house uh in the afternoon, who owns Sire Records and you know, and Ron Delson, and we all were there, and then we came home and John's like pacing, he's getting sick, he's ready, he's throwing up because he can't deal with this. Um it was the most exhilarating feeling because he asked me, he says, Please stand on the stage so that if I turn I could see you. If I know that you're moving, I know I'm doing well. So he always knew because I would tell him the truth. If he didn't sound good, I would say, What's that? You know, right. And so I stood off, not not that people didn't know it was me anyway, but I was standing right near uh Elton's piano, and when John would turn to his right, he could actually see me off on the side. I had never felt a stage where it was just going people were just clamoring. So the stage was moving up and down. It's it actually, I was sort of scared because I kept saying, Are we gonna go through the floor? Because you could feel the floor moving. It was that intense. And you could see the limousines going up and down when you pass by.

SPEAKER_05 24:38

Really?

SPEAKER_01 24:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 24:39

I listen to it a lot. I do. Uh we had an episode, Thanksgiving of um 2024, and it's called I don't remember the whole title, but something like Elton John and John Lennon's Thanksgiving Bet and blah blah blah blah. And it's just such a cool time. I really, really think it's a musical milestone.

Elton Bet And Thanksgiving Comeback

SPEAKER_01 24:59

A lot of these stories, just so that you know, that came out were all came out from my book originally back in '83. A lot of the people had no idea about this. This is not I I told that in my original book in Loving John back in back then. Um, so a lot of the stories came out, and then of course it people sort of run with it. And that's why, you know, it's come out in all different forms. But I have to correct some of the times because, you know, you yeah, I said, no, that's not exactly how it happened, you know.

SPEAKER_05 25:29

So they did Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds, and then they ended with, I saw her standing there, and and John says, Hey, we're gonna do a song of an old fiance of mine. And when he said it, I, you know, because at the time I'm thinking that John and Paul are, you know, this big fight, this big argument, they're not talking. But he said it in a way where it was kind of friendly. Oh, absolutely. And I I learned so much through your documentary that they were seeing each other. Uh things were different than what we were led to believe.

SPEAKER_01 26:02

Absolutely. They, in fact, Paul and Linda came, they were our first guests at our apartment on the east side. We lived on on the east side. This is the apartment. You know, no offense to anybody who goes to Strawberry Fields, you know, that's fine, because you know, that's near the Dakota. But my time with John is spent l overlooking the East River because we had a balcony and you could he used to sit out there in the summertime um in the chair and watch and you know, watch the ships go by. You know, reminds him of, of course, Liverpool and you know the Mersey. And uh and at this apartment, this is where Paul and Linda would drop by, David Bowie, Mick Jagger, and Julian. And this is where we saw the UFO. This was our apartment.

SPEAKER_05 26:47

So let's talk about the UFO because I know you know in his album after um Double Fantasy, the next one that came out.

SPEAKER_01 26:55

It was Walton Bridge was before that.

SPEAKER_05 26:56

But no, no, what I'm saying is that he talks about those UFOs over New York. Yes. So talk a little bit about that.

Stage Nerves And A Milestone Night

SPEAKER_01 27:03

Well, it just happened it was like a Friday night in August, August 23rd to be exact, and like we came home and I'm ordering the pizza because I'm too lazy to cook. We come back from the recording studio, and he's out there, you know, looking out at the down the river, and all of a sudden I'm hearing him calling out my name, and I'm going, yeah, all right, fine. He's fine. He's just called me once. I'm not gonna bother. You know, it's like uh it's like Eddie French says, Yeah, okay. And I heard the second time he calls me. He goes, now, and I went, Oh, something's up. I go running out. I said, What are you? And I stopped mid-sentence, and I'm looking at him and I'm going, what the and I could see this thing overhead, maybe three stories. Not far over our heads. Wow. Yeah, it's very, it was very close. And I said, I'm like, I'm I I couldn't even speak. I'm going, what, what? And he goes, You're seeing what I'm seeing. I said, Oh my God, it's a it's a it's a UFO. And I'm you know, I'm hyperventilating practically, and I'm looking at this thing, and it was just hanging over our head, and it just it had white lights going on and off circular, and then one red light on top. And it had um and it was also, I guess in a in a metal form, you know, the metal color it would be. It's dark, and you could see the heat waves, you know, like on a on a street when it's really uh, you know, hot and you can see it. And so John drew uh a picture of it, only one picture. So anybody says he drew a lot, he didn't, but it was it was over and he drew what he goes, I don't want to forget what I saw. So you know, he drew this thing, and I couldn't tell you how big the thing is. He thought he said um it's like a two-man leer jet. So it's not big, it's probably a little bit bigger than this room, you know, size. And it was only like I said, three, three stories above. I used to say, if Reggie Jackson could hit a home run, this is he could hit this thing. That's how close it was. And we watched it, mind you, you couldn't hear a d any noise, nothing. But I could hear the noise with 13, 14 stories up, and I could hear everything below, the street noise below, and across the whole river, but nothing above my head. And it kept and when it when it was uh it would speed up, slow down, go sideways. I'm standing there going, Oh my god. And you know, when you tell people and the first thing they say is, What were you smoking? You know, it's typical. And anybody who knows me knows I don't take drugs. And it was funny because when John told it to people, they said, Um, I don't mean to say anything, but did May see it too? Because they knew I was the straight one. And they said, Oh, then they would come to me. And I we had the same description, same thing. It was just the most amazing thing to see. And John was was always interested about UFOs. I actually have his magazines that uh he used to order and and and read up on it. Oh. Yeah. Very nice. Did anyone else in the city see it? Yeah, apparently, but not enough to make it uh news. And we're not gonna call and say John Lennon saw it, right? So um, but apparently some people called the local police station, and one of them was like around 86th Street on the east side on the river, and we lived at 52nd by the river. So obviously it was coming down that that line. And I watched it while John went back inside to the apartment. I kept watching it, and it was going down the river and it landed around 23rd Street, because I know the the buildings, and it sat there for a few minutes, and I'm watching it. Now, if if you had come and and I was talking to you, I said, You see that dot that's sh sparkling? I and I would tell you it's a UFO, you would have probably said, sure, you're not sick. But I watched it to where it landed, and then I watched it go over the Williamsburg Bridge, and I thought, it's going towards Brooklyn. Where is it going now? And as it hit over the bridge and it stopped, I watched it just go straight up.

SPEAKER_05 31:12

Really?

SPEAKER_01 31:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 31:13

Wow. That's incredible. It is, it really is. So I'll tell you what else is incredible is that it's only recently, within the last year, that I found out that on number nine dream, it is not Yoko saying John. And that it is you.

SPEAKER_01 31:31

It is me.

SPEAKER_05 31:32

And I don't know because I, you know, I think I'm I'm pretty up on Beatles stuff and solo stuff. I'm I mean, ask Jimmy. We talk about the Beatles and a lot in in our 120 episodes.

SPEAKER_06 31:45

So they're your favorite band.

SPEAKER_05 31:47

Yes, they're my favorite band. I had no idea, and I was just like, wow. And to me, I said to myself, now I know why May and John ended, because Yoko heard that and said enough is enough. And uh so talk a little bit. What ended?

Paul, Friendship, And Rewriting Narratives

SPEAKER_01 32:11

It's more complicated than than um you know, it the storyline goes out and they said, Oh, she called him back and that's why it ended. She couldn't, she was trying very hard.

SPEAKER_05 32:23

It took her over a year to try to get because she was at the Thanksgiving concert.

SPEAKER_01 32:28

Yes, I told I told her that John was performing. And she went, Well, I want to go. I said, I need tickets. I said, We'll get the tickets for you. How can I not somebody said, Why would you tell her? I said, How am I gonna not tell her?

SPEAKER_05 32:40

Right.

SPEAKER_01 32:41

So, you know, I never I never um hit anything on that level. And so she went with um a f uh a date uh and she got uh the other pair of tickets went to Peter Boyle and his wife. So so the four the actor? Yeah. Oh, okay. So um, so they were sitting and she she didn't want to go too far forward, didn't go too far back. She wanted, you know, she had a specific specific area she wanted to sit in. So it was there. And and we all saw each other at the after party as well. So everybody must think that Yoko, you know, there's stories that she didn't know where John was or what that's not true. We talked to her quite often. So it was not like as if we had no idea. She knew where we were, we knew where she was, you know, whatever it was. It's like friends, but you you knew where we were, but we didn't call her. That was another myth. She called us every day.

SPEAKER_05 33:35

Oh so what led to finally the end?

SPEAKER_01 33:39

It's not that I one of the things that she did say to him, well, you know, this was a big fear of John's, which was immigration. As we have now, we have immigration, and and it was coming up to the decision of what what was gonna happen because it'd been a few years. And uh she told him, she says, I think it'd be best if you come back and stay at the Dakota. You could still see May, but you know, I think it'll be best to to leave it at come back and so you know, it looked like you're here. And it was just one of those things that was in a combination of I'm gonna help you quit smoking, and there was a hypnotist, and it was a whole lot of things. And it was but the the immigration thing was the thing that scared him the most because he didn't want to lose that. He wanted to stay in America.

SPEAKER_06 34:27

Do you think the hypnotist played a role in his changing his mind?

SPEAKER_01 34:31

Oh, there was a lot of things. It was a combination. I'm not just gonna say that was the one thing, there was other stuff.

SPEAKER_05 34:37

So, real quick, and I don't want to spend a ton of time on this. I've never been to a hypnotist, I've never seen it done. I mean, does it work?

SPEAKER_01 34:45

I think if you're open to it and there's other factors to it, it can work.

SPEAKER_05 34:50

Okay.

The East River Apartment And UFO Sighting

SPEAKER_01 34:50

Yeah. I don't know. Hasn't happened to me. I didn't need anything, but you never know. Um, but I guess to some people it has worked. You know, remember when they help you quit smoking, they or you know, acupuncture or anything else. So and anything's possible. I'm not gonna be the one to say no, it isn't.

SPEAKER_05 35:09

So I know they call it the Lost Weekend, but I think for John, I think he did three albums. I mean, it was he was so creative at that time.

SPEAKER_01 35:21

I can name you a lot of things besides the three albums. We did Mind Games, right? Wars and Bridges, Rock and Roll. Rock and Roll. Then he jammed with Jagger. He ja then he and uh we we did that. He jammed the la I I was privy to the last jam session, even though it was awful, but it was just a fun thing after the Harry Nielsen session, and it was with Paul. That was the last time that happened. Um, he created some songs for Ringo, Goodnight Vienna. Right, right. Uh he also uh did some other songs which he gave away, which was also to Johnny Winter. Oh, and then of course he wrote fame with with Bowie. I was there for that.

SPEAKER_05 36:02

We've talked about that song. That's a great song.

SPEAKER_01 36:04

And you know, and and he was writing with Harry. He was just there was a whole lot of people, you know. Everybody was coming over and everybody was he was open to it with George. He saw George as well. So he was always friendly with George because George Oh, yes, uh, that's another story. That's a whole other thing on its own. Um, because we were friendly, and George was very sweet to me. He was very kind to me, and he was how very happy I was with John.

SPEAKER_05 36:30

One of the funniest parts of the documentary is the Dick Cabot show. Yes. And John and Yoko are on it. You're on it in a bag, covered up, but I guess a short time later, George Harrison goes on the show, and Dick Cavit says Yoko Mono sat there and he gets up, and I just laugh so hard. I keep rewinding that over and over and over that George would want to get up out of the seat because he knew that Yoko was sitting there, and you're in the audience.

SPEAKER_01 37:01

Yes, I'm in the audience. So you know, because John John told him, he says, You should do Dick Cabot. You really should. And it's yeah. So I got invited to it as well. And so I went to it was it was a great time. That was in 71. We had a great time with all of this. So George has seen me in in various stages here, and he was very happy that I was with John. He actually said in front of John, he told John, he goes, I'm glad she's with you. And then he looked at me and he goes, I'm glad you're with him. And that was very kind. And this was at the um in December of 1974, um, after the after the Elton John concert, and just before we were leaving for Florida, uh, to take Julian down for his um holiday, you know, down for his Christmas holiday with us.

SPEAKER_06 37:50

Now you mentioned Julian, and I think to me the most touching thing in the documentary is watching you with Julian, uh, not only as a child in some of the movies that you have, but in present day that you clearly are our family.

SPEAKER_01 38:05

You know, he meant the world to me, and he still does, and his mother was such a close friend. And if I didn't call her uh after a certain amount of time, she would call up and she says, Where have you been? You know, she was very straightforward. She was she was a no-nonsense lady. And um, you know, when she would always say to me, The truth will always win out. She's very soft-spoken, she would say, The truth will win out. And then she looked at me the last time I saw her. I went to her home. This is after her husband had died, and um and she said she goes, your turn. And she goes, You gotta carry it on now. And I I looked at her and I'm thinking, she goes, I'm tired. And I I would never have thought that that was the last time I was gonna see her. Yeah. So I there's a soft spot, obviously, about about Cynthia. And um, you know, she's a terrific lady. Yeah, I have things that she gave me and and I have memories of when she stayed with me at my home, and we would just talk about different things. Yeah. She was a great cook too. Really? Oh, yeah, definitely.

SPEAKER_05 39:16

Absolutely. I just find that just super cool. I mean, I really, really do that you would become friends with his ex-wife and stay lifelong friends and continue being, you know, close with Julian. And I just find that just super cool. I think it says a lot about you. And I what I was trying to get about the last weekend with all these different things that John did, I think he did them, in my opinion, and I'm nobody, but in my opinion, he did them because he was with someone that allowed him to do it, that just wanted him to be himself. All of us really get to enjoy the music and the and the concert and all the other things he did is the time with you, that short period of time.

Others Who Saw It And Aftermath

SPEAKER_01 40:01

And I know, and then we did a lot of work, and that he loved just he was writing, he was constantly talking to friends. What was great was that I was able to also give Cynthia and John closure they had to to their relationship. They didn't have it when they when they split. So they were able to talk it out, they were able to do things. And I always wanted all to him, I told John, I said, You must stay in touch with Julian after you know, uh when they first came over. And and that's what every week I would make him say, time to call Julian, no matter where we were. So just so that there was still a touch base and and it impacted Julian, obviously, because he wanted to keep coming over, and I said, No problem. It's no problem. I mean, it was like it's so funny. This is to tell you, our first guest, and we had no idea how they found out where we lived, was was Paul and Linda. So the phone the the doorbell is is ringing, and I'm going, who's calling us at seven or eight o'clock at night? And he's talking to the doorman, and he goes, and I go, Who is it? And John goes, it's it's Paul and Linda. And I'm looking at him, I said, Okay. And he's giving me this look, and I go, Well, have them come up. And he goes, Are you sure it's okay? And I'm looking at him, I said, They're your friends. They can come up. He goes, Can you handle it? I said, There's nothing to handle, they're your friends. And so that's and that was one of the things that that's uh how it started. So you could see, I always say in each relationship, no matter who you're with, the relationship tells the story. It depends on who you're with. And that was our home. I always had an open door policy.

SPEAKER_05 41:47

Well, I am glad that you were with John because as a fan, so much came out of it. And I'm sure that you had no idea, you know, what was going to happen as far as what he was going to do, and no idea he was gonna, you know, go away for five years and not do anything.

SPEAKER_01 42:06

Except that he called me, so I knew certain things were happening.

Number Nine Dream And Credit

SPEAKER_05 42:09

Well, and and you mentioned that that he did would call you, you would see him every once in a while still.

SPEAKER_01 42:15

I think my last conversation with him, and I'd and I would uh he was called he called me from Cape Town, and my first line to him was South Africa? You know, he goes, Yes, and I said, Oh my god. Um, you know, and he said, you know, Yoko would send me on my on these trips, you know, East meets west and whatever. I said, Are you okay? And that was always my concern. And he said, Um, I'm good. But you could tell the difference when somebody says, Yeah, I'm good, or I'm happy, you know. And I'm saying, because if you're happy, why are you calling me? You know, so so I we would talk and he would say to me, Have you seen so and so? Because he knows I was always the connector. I was always still in touch with people. And I would say, Yeah. He goes, Will you send them my love? And I knew that he hadn't talked to them, so it was me doing all the, you know, whatever. And people were surprised. They go, You're kidding. I said, No.

SPEAKER_05 43:08

Wow. Yeah. Hey, so we could talk to you all day. We could probably talk to you for a week straight. But unfortunately, time does not allow us to do that.

SPEAKER_03 43:17

Okay.

SPEAKER_05 43:18

But you have the last weekend, the photography of May Peng featuring you that is going to be all across America. And I recently went to see it, and it is fantastic.

SPEAKER_01 43:31

I'm glad you came by.

SPEAKER_05 43:32

It was great. It was great coming to see what it is that you have of these personal pictures that are are there to see, available to purchase, and to see behind that that camera lens what you would see.

SPEAKER_01 43:47

Right. And that's exactly it. It's what ever what you see on the wall, and you pictures of John and other friends, it's what you're seeing through my eyes.

Why The Relationship Ended

SPEAKER_05 43:56

And it's super cool because there are pictures of John. There are pictures of Ringo. There are pictures of Paul, Harry Nielsen, there's you know, Julian, a ton of pictures. I can't think of everyone that's in the pictures, but some of them are so cool as just you know being in the water off Long Island or whatever, and it's just really neat. And so I say to anybody that has an opportunity, we'll put in our show notes the listing of everywhere that you're going to be because you have a long list. You're gonna be away more than you're actually at home.

SPEAKER_01 44:29

It's so true, but it's just I am happy to be away with the snow right now, so I'm good. I'm sure you are. But I'm chained to the desk wherever I am. When any whatever show I'm at, I am there the full time. I'm it's not, oh, is she gonna be there for an hour? I'm there the whole time. I'm at the gallery charm. They chain me.

SPEAKER_05 44:46

And you know, I gotta be honest with you, I was surprised at how many people were at the show. There was a lot. There was a lot of people there, and I do not mean any disrespect whatsoever. There were so many young people, you know, as people get older like me, you know, we don't go out to as many things. But to have that many young people coming to see the photographs that you took, and I talked to many of them. Oh, good. And it was just really cool listening to their stories. Right. Um checking out your website and seeing how many celebrities have come by, and then to be there, you know, and Cindy Wilson of the B-52 shows up, and it I, you know, I was told she was there the day before, also, and talking with her, you know, I got to talk with her a little bit. It's just really cool how these simple photographs resonate with so many people, regardless if they're a young person in school or an older person doing a podcast, or Cindy Wilson of the B-52s, or or the guys from REM that showed up, you know, just so many different people. And that has to be the fantastic feeling for you to know that it affected them, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 46:09

I it was great to see this whole music community come out, and everybody knew one another. And I have to thank, you know, um Scott, my business partner. Now we have to thank Kevin Sweeney, who got us to this to that place and said, I'll we'll get I'll get you a place. And it was great. And he's been he was terrific. He was the catalyst for us. And the place open arms, they are wonderful. The Winterville uh cultural center. Not only that, the mayor, Mayor Dodd came out and and gave us a swag bag too. It was great. I love that, you know, and I and he was terrific, and and he's and he was getting something also to to make it uh uh of a print to be put on the wall in the place in the center. And he's been he's been there for a long time, and everybody loves what he had done. And I I think it's terrific bringing back the music, and he's a musician himself, everybody coming in the door, and it all resonates to everyone, the different things.

SPEAKER_05 47:10

And that is awesome. And again, I will put the list of uh all the cities that you're gonna be in. Yeah, you know, you you have quite the extensive tour going on.

SPEAKER_01 47:18

Oh, are you kidding? That was the 78th show we've done in two and a half years.

SPEAKER_05 47:23

That is crazy.

SPEAKER_01 47:24

I'm on tour.

Immigration, Hypnosis, And Choices

SPEAKER_05 47:25

I like it. So, real quick before we let you go, what's your favorite Beatles song?

SPEAKER_01 47:29

Oh, my favorite Beatles. That's tough, but I love their early stuff, and I mean anywhere from Meet the Beatles to probably Revolver and Beatles 65. But I uh during my wedding, I was married to Tony Visconti.

SPEAKER_05 47:40

Uh I used uh producer who did a lot with David Bowie back in the early days, and then again in the late days.

SPEAKER_01 47:47

Right, absolutely, and you know, Justin Habe was our best man from the Moody Blues. Really? Yes.

SPEAKER_05 47:53

Wow.

SPEAKER_01 47:54

Um, in my life was uh the song. And I had and I had uh John's uh former lawyer, his personal lawyer, Harold, walk me down the aisle.

SPEAKER_05 48:03

Very nice, yeah. And then I would say probably surprise, surprise, sweet bird of paradox would be your favorite John solo song.

SPEAKER_01 48:10

Yeah, I wonder why, because that was written for me, yes.

SPEAKER_05 48:13

Hey, listen, that is it for this episode of Music in My Shoes. Again, we could go on forever. I want to thank May Pang so much for being part of the show and giving us the inside scoop of what really happened during the lost weekend. Thank you so much, May.

SPEAKER_01 48:29

Thank you.

SPEAKER_05 48:30

Jimmy Guthrie, show producer and owner of RK160 Studios, located right here in Atlanta, Georgia, and big thrill for our podcast music. You can reach us at musicinmy shoes at gmail.com. Please like and follow the Music in My Shoes Instagram and Facebook pages. This is Jim Boj, and I hope you learned something new or remembered something old. We'll meet again on our next episode. Until then, live life and keep the music playing.