David Lowery and Dennis Herring Discuss Cracker’s The Golden Age and More, Plus Camp-In 12 E124

We’re coming to you from Cracker’s Campout, where the music is loud, the stories are better than any liner notes, and the distance between the crowd and the artists basically disappears. From the song-swap to the final-night blowout, the whole weekend feels like stepping inside the world that shaped Cracker and Camper Van Beethoven. 

The heart of the show is audio with David Lowery and producer Dennis Herring as they unpack stories on Camper Van Beethoven, Cracker’s The Golden Age and more. You’ll hear how label pressure collides with creative risk, why “Pictures of Matchstick Men” mattered as a gateway into Key Lime Pie, and how the smallest production decisions can steer what listeners feel on first contact. We also get deep into recording and arranging details: basic tracks, mixing choices, string arrangements, and the kind of obsessive vocal work that turns a good song into a lasting one. 

We widen the lens with Dennis’s producing stories beyond these bands, including Buddy Guy sessions and the odd way awards can chase the “wrong” album at the “right” time. Then David breaks down what “The Golden Age” really means, leaning into irony and unreliable narration. If you love rock history, music production, and the stories behind classic albums, this one’s for you. 

Learn Something New or
Remember Something Old

Please like and follow the Music in My Shoes Facebook and Instagram pages
Reach out to us at musicinmyshoes@gmail.com

Transcript

Welcome And Cold Open

SPEAKER_03 0:00

Hey, this is David Lowry from Cracker and Camper Van Beethoven and you're listening to Music in My Shoes Podcast. Hope you enjoy.

SPEAKER_00 0:25

You've got to feel it in it out there, bro.

Cracker’s Campout Weekend Overview

SPEAKER_01 0:30

Hey everybody, this is Jim Boge, and you're listening to Music in My Shoes, Podcasting Worldwide. That was Big Thrill kicking off episode 124. I'm thrilled to be here with you. Let's learn something new or remember something old. So, an annual event that I've been going to the last few years, Cracker's Camping, was held March 12th to the 14th 2026. Camping 12, the 12th one. And this is a must-do if you are a cracker fan. And a three-day pass is the way to go. Hands down, let me tell you that. So much involved with that, and it makes it just so much more special. And it's not just another concert or a couple of days of concert. So night one out of the 41 in Athens was a song swamp. David Lowry, Johnny Hickman, Kevin Kinney, and Megan Slinger. It was fantastic. I love song swamps, and a song swamp is where one person plays a song, maybe tells a story, and then it goes to the next person, and the next person, you know, they might join in, you know, maybe play a little guitar along with it. It just really was super cool listening to all four of them. And before the show, we were lucky enough to have Kevin and Johnny join us on Music in My Shoes. And that was a great episode, our last one. Meeting in a living room and doing our own story swap of different things. Yeah, that was great. It really was, and I really appreciate them coming on the show. So, second day of camp in the 41, had David Lowry and producer Dennis Herring talking about the making of Camper Van Beethoven's Our Beloved Revolutionary Sweetheart and Key Lime Pie and Cracker's The Golden Age. And I decided to record some of it with my phone. I just kind of put the video on, put it on my leg. And I recorded a bunch, not the whole thing, but I was lucky enough to run into both David and Dennis the next day. And I said, Hey, I have a podcast. You know, can I use some of this on the show? And they both were like, sure, go right ahead. And I appreciate them giving me the permission to use it because I think it's some pretty cool stuff. So a little background on Dennis. He started off 40 years ago producing Tim Buck 3 and their big hit, The Future's So Bright, I Gotta Wear Shades. You remember that song, Jimmy?

SPEAKER_00 3:11

Yeah, wow, I didn't know that.

Dennis Herring Meets Camper Van Beethoven

SPEAKER_01 3:12

Yes. So that gave him the opportunity to look for bands to produce that would be the next big thing. You know, record companies are like, oh, you did that, and you know, who thought that would be a hit? And truly, who thought that that would be a hit? It's a cool song. It's a really cool song, unlike anything that was kind of out at the time. And it's so simple, the future's so bright, I gotta wear shades, and everybody was singing it. Everybody. I think my mother was singing it.

SPEAKER_04 3:40

You know?

SPEAKER_01 3:41

So he would talk to a person who worked for LA Weekly. And the guy kind of had the pulse of new bands and what was kind of happening in the music scene. And the first couple of times he mentioned bands that Dennis ended up not liking. We pick up here on this recording of where Dennis asked him for a third time about a band.

SPEAKER_02 4:07

Well, the third time I call him. I call him, I go, great, what do you like him these days? And he goes, I'm not even gonna say. Because all the stuff I say that I like, you don't you hate. But he goes, it makes me think, you know, there's an artist I really hate. And he goes, They're doing their first LA show next week. And he goes, You should go see them because I get a feeling you'll love them. Because I've learned so much about Camper Van Beethoven.

SPEAKER_01 4:35

So that's his introduction into Camper Van Beethoven. As I mentioned, he did their third and their fourth albums producing all of them. And now, next clip, Dennis talks about Virgin Records and how they liked our beloved revolutionary sweetheart and what they are seeing as the direction of key lime pie kind of going into the whole project.

SPEAKER_02 4:58

This may be insightful context for this, okay? It's like, so you know, the record gun is really happy with our beloved revolutionary sweetheart. Virgin's real happy, and I knew them all, they would call me and tell me how great they're how happy they were. And so as we started gearing up to make key lime pie, like the plan, even when we were playing head for motion, those are usually the most sell up parts of a record gun. He was calling me out going, man, if you guys just make a more rock record, I go, we got it. We got it. We're so set up with our with Sweetheart. We make the rock record. I go, okay, great. I go, you know, we'll see what David's thinking. But I go, I'm down for that. And so uh you come in one day and you go, hey, I've been writing some songs for the next record. I want you to be here. I'll offer make a dark folk record. I know. And I think probably my face and everything, well, I remember it is. I all I said was kind of okay. And you go, look, I know the record company wants like more of a rock record. I'm sure they told him that too, you know. And he goes, listen to these songs. If you don't think they're great, then I would write a rock record. And so I listened to it and it was great. And I go, we're gonna do this. We're gonna do this record. And so, but the funny part of that was then, as we started to finish the record, we get towards the end, I started getting really nervous about how this is all gonna go down. Like I was gonna be a shithead over that you do this weird record next one. Come on, let's go, guys. Step it up, you know, put her in fifth year. And so I came, I mean, I came to David one day, and I go, the record sounded great. I have an idea. I go, I think we should record picture pictures of maps again.

SPEAKER_03 6:41

We could already discord, we didn't. Did I go back in? No, no, but we had recorded it once the logo speed.

SPEAKER_02 6:51

Yeah, but I talked to you and deleted it off that. Well, what was the idea to leave it off then? But I go, but that wasn't, you know, we needed to re-record it to be in this record. It's from Virginia's funny. Well, here's the part I like about this story. So I said to David, no, I think we should record it. He goes, I don't think it'll really fit all these other scrolls. And I go, yeah, why not? But I think we should try. I go, I think it'd be a good idea. And he goes, okay, so when you have a band meeting about it. And you thought you and maybe a couple guys came to the studio the next day, some on cameras, and you go, I get it. Uh and go, what? And you go, that's sick, man. I go, how do you get it? And he goes, you want to make an advertisement for the album. And I go, yes. That's exactly it. We need a song that tells people know this that we did this, and they like it the first time they hear it. And this is that kind of song, and then they get the record, and they love like violins like that.

SPEAKER_03 7:55

Like uh advertising and action movie trailer, but it's actually like this sort of weird dramatic, like psychological thriller or something like that, right? But yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 8:08

You pull every bit of action you can from the film and get that trailer. So I'm sorry, you sing every bit of a funny fun book.

SPEAKER_03 8:16

Well, and also too, it just starts with that violin, and it's not the most normal pop song.

Making The Golden Age In Studios

SPEAKER_01 8:23

And David is right. The violin is not the most normal opening for a pop song at all. He's talking about pictures of magstick men, and it's a cover of a status quo song. As I've mentioned before, status quo was the first band to play Live Aid in 1985, and they opened up with Rockin' All Over the World, which is a cover of a John Fogarty song. Status Quo's Magstick Men went to number 12 on Billboard in 1968, and Camper Van Beethoven's went to number one on Billboard modern rock tracks in 1989. So we fast forward to Camper breaking up, and then cracker forming, they made two records, and Dennis signs up to produce the Golden Age.

SPEAKER_02 9:11

We tried interview on basic tracks. In the end, you mostly just keep saying bass and drums. But basic tracks were in Memphis or Jodie Stevens whatever studio. And uh, and then I think all the overlookes, virtually all the overloads were done at your studio in Virginia, in Richmond. That's right. That's interesting. Oh, mixed in well, we mixed, but we mixed in New York with Andy Wallace.

SPEAKER_03 9:45

The Golden. That's actually the small trusting. That's right. He's mixed actually the Oscars. No, at least not somebody record to mix, right? He produced the great Jeff Boxley record.

SPEAKER_02 9:58

Oh, that's right. Yeah, he did a great job on the golden age. I loved working with him on it.

SPEAKER_01 10:05

Here, David and Dennis talk about my favorite song off the album, Big Dipper.

SPEAKER_03 10:11

Well, you first colonized the entire song, right? Oh, it's amazing. I don't know if there's any crying, man. We're not necessarily crying in the studio because of parts.

SPEAKER_02 10:34

Tears of release. Yeah, Hogs is just like, I'm just I'm really proud of that track. And it was hard, it just was kind of painstaking to build that arrangement. And that piano's supposed to be.

SPEAKER_03 10:47

You guys worked on it for like ten hours, I think. We don't normally do that with a session musician, but yeah, it was like when you came in from the morning session, and it was still there as the big session. You do in national, you do things in three sessions. Day against three sessions, I think.

SPEAKER_02 11:04

That was pretty crazy. Yeah, I've known each other a long time too, and I really like him as a premiser. Uh he was LA based forever. And but it was a sort of country record piano player in LA. And so I just knew him and threw a bunch of people in the outro. And Chapa was really in front of me.

SPEAKER_03 11:23

The engineer engineered Who you might recognize from the record as Kassaba hot talks. Somehow barely his name. But he went by Chapa. No, he weren't. But you do Yeah. He did that's right, he did record those sessions in twice.

SPEAKER_02 11:39

Yeah. He didn't record a keyline five with us to make it the whole record. Okay. I'm proud of that track.

Strings And Studio Trickery

SPEAKER_01 11:49

Up next, here they talk about the string arrangements on the album.

SPEAKER_03 11:53

David Campbell kind of deserves to be famous in his own right, just because of the things that he's done the string rings on and stuff like that.

SPEAKER_02 12:01

Oh, that's a big record.

SPEAKER_03 12:02

But most people know him as the artist Beck's father. Yeah. Right. So um do you have this idea that you would get David Campbell? Had you worked with him before?

SPEAKER_02 12:15

Yeah, when I was a musician, I was a session musician, was my first career in Los Angeles. When I moved there, got out of high school moved there from Mississippi. I was a session musician over like six years or something. And David was the first I worked for a lot. He would put together sessions and he'd call me to play guitar. So I knew David, I didn't know he was Beck's dad. I just remember his string arranging guy and great string player, David Kinman.

SPEAKER_01 12:40

I think that's really cool, Jimmy, that Beck's dad, David Campbell, was doing the string arrangements for all these bands, and specifically here for Cracker on the Golden Age.

SPEAKER_03 12:51

Yeah, that is super cool.

SPEAKER_01 12:52

More on some of the string arrangements.

SPEAKER_03 12:54

What do you remember about those sessions?

SPEAKER_02 12:57

Oh, that was uh we did I remember doing working with David on the string arrangements. And I remember we were going for uh David asked what kind of sound, because he picked the engineer, Joe Tiggerelli, to record the strings. But he it was his David's choice online as the producer, because he had done the arrangements. Well, how do you want your arrangements to sound? But we talked about it, and I go, man, I picture like Bill Withers. Those Bill Withers strings on the 70s recorders. That's such a neat, dry sound. I think it's not sound which he's called correctly. Yeah, exactly. And so that was kind of what David the one for sound was. We thought about it.

SPEAKER_03 13:40

Well, yeah, I think it's great too.

SPEAKER_01 13:42

About this time, Dennis started to talk about recording vocals backwards.

SPEAKER_02 13:47

So we have real background vocals on the songs. Where to say the words, but they sound crazy because you have them sing it backwards and flip the tape from which then says the words.

SPEAKER_03 13:59

This course when the music business was based on sing teams, real loyalty some real record audits and stuff like that. So you could spend six hours learning how to sing something backwards.

Buddy Guy Sessions And Grammy Talk

SPEAKER_01 14:14

So Dennis produced a ton of albums, obviously Camper, Cracker. He also produced Float On, the song Float On by Modest Mouse, the big hit. He also did the Delivery Man by Elvis Costello in the Imposters in 2004, which is one of my favorite Elvis Costello albums. But here he actually talks about producing for Buddy Guy.

SPEAKER_02 14:38

You know what I did two albums with Buddy Guy. And one of them is the first one's called Sweet Tea.

SPEAKER_03 14:46

And then it's like that uh I opened a DJ C at a Spanish Boston festival with um. What's the first track of that? Oh, Done Got Old. Done Got Old. No, no, no, not the quiet one. Uh maybe uh the second one. Oh, baby. Yes, don't eat. Yeah, things got it. Crazy. Like 10,000 people.

SPEAKER_02 15:14

Yeah, it's the theme song to hustle and flow movie, too. That's right. And of course they do the drop when it does the movie title. So I would maybe I thought if you just recorded it for that, it's great. But like the so we did that record, and we got nominated for Grammy, and we didn't win. So I did another record with Buddy, and I know this time it would stack the thing up to where he wins a Grammy. And so I got Eric Clapton and B.B. King and Bunny to sit around in my studio in Mississippi, and we did that one. And it's all acoustic. Okay, so it's basically the first song, the quiet song, Don't Polo. And that got mounted and one of them. You know, out of the year Grammy. I don't think that record is that great.

SPEAKER_03 16:07

Sweet tea is great. But isn't that what happened? Don't people get the Grammy for the record for the record that they should have given Grammy to? So that's really a Grammy for Sweet Tea's way I do that. By the way, if you don't know this record, go buy that record. It's like it's like where Led Zeppelin came from or something. Even though it's later. It's like a tensile.

SPEAKER_02 16:29

That's what Led Zeppelin was listening to. Oh, this is like Led Zeppelin. Play the next Led Zeppelin record. Buddy didn't totally understand. He was excited to do the record, but he didn't totally understand. You know, he had a he would tell, you know, we'd have he talks at the end of every day about it, and then he was like, oh I don't know what you want me to do on this music. Mr. Dennis, I'm like, buddy, you just be buddy guy and it's gonna work on the problem.

SPEAKER_03 16:58

Well, I think some of the stories that you're using a North Mississippi style rhythm section and he's not North Mississippi style blues. Right. And there's a lot of trancing stuff.

SPEAKER_02 17:12

Yeah. Oh, he freaked out at me one day. I brought him at the fourth or fifth song, it's starting with the word baby, the title. And he goes, You've got to quit bringing me this baby bullshit, baby. I go to Mr. Bagon, or you know, I don't know how many back the next day.

SPEAKER_01 17:34

We pick up here where David talks more about the Golden Age album.

SPEAKER_03 17:39

I remember like you're dancing Babylon. Uh we were sort of messing with that. Charlie goes, Oh, I know, I know. I have to do Sunset Boulevard. So we're doing one song, and he's doing Sunset Boulevard on Trump. So that's pretty good. Right? I mean, there's things like that that I remember.

SPEAKER_02 17:56

You know, this begs a question though that I was uh that I would love to ask you in this setting, which is what is your I mean you wrote all these songs, all these lyrics to Golden Age. What is your what was your concept for the Golden Age? How would you say that? I mean, you were doing an interview for the recording. What is the golden age?

SPEAKER_03 18:18

Well, I I don't know if there is a full concept for it, but the song The Golden Age comes from the way that our like our German friends in this band called FSC. Uh we were touring around with them in the United States, and then also Juck and I were touring around with them in Germany, and they'd get into the backstage, and the backstage would be real to shitty, and then just be like a plate of cold cuts and some bad cheese and a bad beer. There's bad beers in Germany and stuff like that. And they would look at it and go, ah, it's the golden age. The golden age, when I'm singing the golden age, this isn't an unreliable narrator. When I'm singing the golden age, right? So there's a lot of unreliable narration in a lot of bite songs, but you're supposed to be able to read between the lines. So the golden age is not, in fact, the golden age.

Cutting Through Noise With TikTok

SPEAKER_01 19:16

An audience member asked the question: how would you cut through the noise and sell camper albums or golden age today?

SPEAKER_02 19:26

I would just have to be one of the 500 people go to David five times a day to make more TikToks. The visual and the energy is very high today. The beautiful thing is the barrier to entry is very low. As an artist, you can make one song and you can put it on Instagram. I'm watching an artist do it today. I was sharing it with Lena and her team. And it's like blowing up. She made one song, made one video of it, and it's so particular with its working, that it has some visuals, antics, what she looks like, what she's wearing. It's that's if you're gonna um, you know, if you if you know that's that's really I I encourage well so so basically I'm glad you can TikToks.

SPEAKER_03 20:25

Um button.

Campout Shows And Finale Highlights

SPEAKER_02 20:26

You know what? I have a feeling though that if that was all if you were that age, you could just be doing it, you'd be a doctor. You'd be doing crazy shit.

SPEAKER_01 20:36

David talks about a video for the song Nothing to Believe in.

SPEAKER_03 20:40

For nothing to believe in, though, we were on tour when the record company shifted to that song. And so we're like, well, I don't know if you can make a video because we're on tour. So they just tired what Harry Gene Stanton's like got all these famous people in it. I mean, they just picked a director and we're like, this is what we want to do. And we're like, sure, yeah, go ahead. You know, it's like that's things actually holds up pretty funny.

SPEAKER_02 21:13

Now is it's it's like bull robbing or something. It's like seven seconds. It makes seven seconds I'm excited about when I see it sometimes. And I like what I hear in like seven seconds, still I don't want to go through the whole song. If I like the whole song, I think now I'm a fan. Again, I'm glad I don't have to keep taking this.

SPEAKER_01 21:33

So Talia Shire of the Rocky movies was actually in that video also. Do you remember Rocky? Rocky came out in 1976. We're talking that's a long time ago, but she was in that video.

SPEAKER_00 21:47

Wow.

SPEAKER_01 21:48

Yeah. Mm-hmm. David and Dennis revisit the song The Big Dipper.

SPEAKER_03 21:53

Sometimes hard songs take a real long time to figure out and they become great. Yeah. It took a really long time to get that to work. What's the project on that song? Do you remember that? Yeah, I don't remember.

SPEAKER_02 22:11

Nah, I was I wanted that vocal just to be just as though you s were saying it in a monet because it was so truthful. You know, it was wasn't sung. It was communicated. And I was I knew it when we'd have that in just say a section or a online or something. But we I just had to keep going over and over and you sing it and say it. I used three days. And so as it went on, David would go upstairs and he had you know, he's a medical maniac, and he'd go upstairs and other things to work on. And I would sit and calm. Like, okay, come back down and sing some more. You're an Sarian? It's a multitask. That's a colour of that. I think it was towards the end of it. It might have been say the third day of singing. I'll have David in there singing. And I go, okay, why don't you take a break? I'm gonna work with what I have now. And you hadn't let on and were that frustrated. I mean, you had seen maybe like or something, but it wasn't that. And you go, yeah, okay. Instead of walking up the stairs, you walk out to the front down to his studio in Virginia we were working at. You guys walk out in the front, you go, the door is street sweat. Vehicles parked and stuff. So he walks out the door, leaves the door open. I remember this detail. I'm sitting with my back to the door of the castle, also just massive tires squalling. Woo standing on the street. What was that? Signe nature clearly. How's David leaving? Yeah, truck, pickup truck. How's that thing squalling off? And I couple hours. I go, oh yeah, for a couple hours, maybe three hours. You're all around. So I Johnny's there, or something. I go, Johnny, what's scrolling? I think David's OTP, which we had we had had this joking thing, me and Johnny off the project. It's OTP. It's off the project. But not long from then. You show you come walking in the door. Three or four hours, you come back in. You came in, you sat down, and you go. I understand what could be. Obviously the process. Or the GPU could be processing. And uh you go, I understand what's going on. I go, what is what's happening? And you go, you want you loved the song. And you want the spoke will be perfect. Emotionally perfect. And I go, yes, it's exactly right. I'm sorry I couldn't tell you that myself. That's exactly right. You want, okay, I'll sing it as much as you want.

SPEAKER_01 24:50

And finally, David talks about the drums on the song Dixie Babylon.

SPEAKER_03 24:55

I think once Charlie figured out to do sounds like a one-heart on the drums, you know what I'm talking about. It's just it's just a different attitude. Like he's he's not he's kind of just playing like it's a bastard song. He's playing it like crazy. And and or not swinging it like I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 25:15

I think he was, you know, remember, I mean, we got all those. There was one or two songs we do with Eddie Bayers in Nashville now.

SPEAKER_03 25:23

But you know what? I I think that just like at some one day, Charlie's gonna be like, I'll play that. That song was kind of figured out.

SPEAKER_02 25:31

So it made it easy. Yeah. Those tracks from Memphis being harder than the other. And so Charlie was a darling. Except for uh sweet pie.

SPEAKER_03 25:43

For some reason, never could get sweet to the pie. And we did in Ashgot. Yeah, so we there was one of sweet little pie. We have transition between two sections of coffee. Not exactly the same. I don't understand it. And just Charlie could never figure it out. So that's interesting.

SPEAKER_02 26:10

Eddie Bears. Yeah. Fantastic, famous country drama in Nashville. And that's what we did, John Hawkes, too.

SPEAKER_03 26:20

And also reread the drama song with Eddie Bears on. I may have to go into international waters because I have there's a law in Tennessee about uh ride Bell on the upbeat on Bell.

SPEAKER_01 26:41

So I thought that was really cool, Jimmy. I really appreciate David and Dennis allowing me to, you know, use it on the podcast. I thought it was some really cool info, things that you didn't know about, and getting behind the scenes. And there's a lot more. I mean, there were certain songs that they played where they broke it down, you could hear it, and it was definitely worth being part of the three-day pass that you could be in the 40-watt and listening to the both of them speak about it.

SPEAKER_00 27:11

That's great.

SPEAKER_01 27:12

Yeah. So later that night, night two at the 40-watt, David with Greg Gleischer, the guitarist of Camper, and friends played songs of Camper Van Beethoven. Megan Slanker and Brian Howard, they split time on bass, Ann Harris, she was on violin, Coco Owens on drums, you know, all the Camper hits, it was really good. They practiced a lot because a lot of them didn't know all of it, but when you saw that show, you would have had no idea. You would have thought that they've been playing these songs forever. It was so cool that it came off so good. You know, Ann sang her song Sparrows. Brian did an awesome version of Bob Dylan's You Ain't Goin Nowhere. And Ann and Megan really, they kind of kicked it up a notch. They really were playing and I think helped the the whole level of the show and the crowd really rise up. What a fun night it was. And then day three at Hendershots, there was a meet and greet, and which is really cool because you basically have two members of of the band sitting at a a little table, and you go up and you get a poster sign, you can talk to them, you go to the next table, then the next table. It's really cool. It's a lot of fun, especially if you haven't met them before. It was followed by a Johnny Hickman solo show. Just a lot of fun. It really is cool. It gets to emphasize some of the things that Johnny does, you know, on his own. He's got a lot of great songs. And then the finale, night three at 40 watt, Cracker celebrating the 30th anniversary of the Golden Age. And Larry and Hickman, Brian and Coco at different points, were joined by Ann Harris, you know, the violin extraordinaire, Megan Slanker, Pistol, who used to be with Cracker. He was on pedal steel for some of the songs. Uh Fair Serrano was on keyboard. She played a few years with Cracker. And both of them really added so much to what was happening with the new Cracker with Ann on violin. It just sounded awesome. It was so much fun hearing every song, you know, in its entirety, in the sequence of The Golden Age, which is my favorite Cracker album.

SPEAKER_03 29:46

And it sounds like it's Johnny's, too.

Thanks And Where To Find Us

SPEAKER_01 29:48

I agree. You know, Johnny's mentioned it a you know a couple of times, you know, to us, and it is just a fun album. It's got rockers, it's got ballads, it's got the string arrangements that we just talked about that really add layers, the piano. It's really cool. A great album. Band was on fire, besides playing the Golden Age in its entirety, it was a full-force musical display that included King of Bakersfield, Teen Angst, Loser, which is a Jerry Garcia cover, Low, Euro Trash Girl, another song about the rain, which Johnny is featured on vocals, and the encore, Dr. Bernice. I mean, you just didn't want the night to end, but it really made it a special weekend, without a doubt. Another thing that was really cool was uh Dennis actually played acoustic guitar on one of the songs, I Can't Forget You, with David. It was just the two of them out there, and I thought that was kind of cool. And the crumbs, you know, the crumbs coming from all over to be part of camping. I got to meet a lot of them last year and met far more this year. Really enjoyed speaking to people, hearing some of their stories, and met multiple people that have been to all 12 camp ins that have taken place in Athens, and it's just fun. If you like the band, it's not it's not like going to a a convention, it's like going to a party with all these people that you like and that you can access. I mean, I talked to David, I talked to Dennis, obviously Johnny, Megan multiple times, Ann Harris multiple days, Coco, you know, you go through and you get to be, you know, in a position where you can talk to them, take pictures with them, whatever it is, and it's just a lot of fun. And it's something that I look forward to, and I know so many people look forward to it also, and the crumbs really make it worth going to because it's not just the band, it's a whole group of people that you get to interact with. Cracker the Golden Age album is celebrating its 30th anniversary on April 2nd. It came out in 1996. And can't forget, you know, I didn't mention I hate my generation, I'm a little rocket ship, 100 flower power maximum, useless stuff. How can I live without you? If it's been a while and you haven't listened to the album, definitely revisit it. If you've never heard it, it's definitely recommended to do so. Really good album, I think, to listen to on Cracker. Jimmy, while I hate to do it, that's it for this episode of Music in My Shoes. I'd like to thank David Lowry and Dennis Herring for allowing me to use the audio from when they were talking about camper, talking about cracker, talking about a whole mess of things. It was a lot of fun, and thank you so much for allowing me to share this with everyone. I'd also like to thank Jimmy Guthrie, show producer and owner of Arcade 160 Studios, located right here in Atlanta, Georgia, and Vic Thrill for our podcast music. You can reach us at musicinmyshoes at gmail.com. Please like and follow the Music in My Shoes Facebook and Instagram pages. This is Jim Bog and I hope you learned something new or remembered something old. We'll meet again on our next episode. Until then, live life and keep the music playing.