Behind the Strings of R.E.M.'s Out of Time: Violinist David Arenz E136

“Losing My Religion” has one of the most recognizable feels in modern rock, and a big part of that atmosphere lives in the strings. We’re joined by former Atlanta Symphony Orchestra violinist David Arenz, who played on R.E.M.’s Out of Time, to unpack what it’s like to walk into a studio, open the sheet music, listen to the track, and deliver takes that end up etched into music history.

We get practical about the process: how pop string sections are recorded, why overdubbing matters, how a small group can sound massive, and what pros rely on when the clock is running. David also takes us through the real career path behind orchestral playing, from early training and relentless practice to high-pressure auditions, probation, and decades of rehearsals, concerts, and touring as a working musician.

Then the stories open up. We talk Atlanta studios, TV theme work, and the strange truth that you often don’t know where your music will land until you hear it out in the world. And yes, David even ends up singing “My Girl” with The Temptations at Chastain Park in Atlanta, GA.

If you love R.E.M., the Out of Time album, music production, or the orchestra, this one is for you. Subscribe, share the show with a music-obsessed friend, and leave us a review. What song do you hear differently once you know how it was made?

Learn Something New or
Remember Something Old

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Transcript

Intro To R.E.M. And Out Of Time

SPEAKER_01 0:00

This is David Arnst. I play violin on the REM album Out of Time, and you are listening to music in my stews.

SPEAKER_05 0:29

Hey everybody, this is Jim Boge, and you're listening to Music in My Shoes, podcasting worldwide. That was Vic Thrill kicking off episode 136. I'm thrilled to be here with you. Let's learn something new or remember something old. So, Jimmy, back in the fourth week of February 1991, REM Losing My Religion was the WDRE Shriek of the Week, meaning the best new song of the week. June 22nd, 1991, it peaked at number four on the Billboard Hot 100 charts and is the highest ranked song for REM on Billboard out of all their songs they've ever done. Off of the Out of Time album, a great album. Really enjoy that one. What do you think of that?

SPEAKER_02 1:14

It's a good album.

SPEAKER_05 1:15

It sure is. It really is. So the Atlanta Symphony Orchestra had members who performed the string sections on some of the songs. And I think they did a bunch of songs on the album, which I think is cool. And I think it was excellent that REM here, you know, an Athens band reaching out to Atlanta, putting it all together. We're lucky enough to have one of those members with us in studio today. Okay. David Arns, thank you so much for being with us. We really appreciate it. Mr. Violinist himself, hey, welcome. Welcome, David.

SPEAKER_01 1:50

Don't build me up too much. We haven't started yet.

SPEAKER_05 1:54

No, no. You know, I'll tell you, I was listening, you know, the last couple of weeks today, and just listening and knowing that, you know, we were going to get a chance to sit down with someone that's been part of, you know, losing my religion. And it is something that I thought was super cool to have someone here with us that was part of it. And that, you know, is something that you, you know, you don't normally think, oh, this is a violinist with REM. But if you think about the whole album and you listen to it, the album's not the same without the string arrangements. You know?

SPEAKER_01 2:33

I I agree. I totally agree. Yeah. We added a lot to the overall record, uh, and and also the individual songs. We we did a lot with that. We were uh we had a lot of fun, actually. Uh the band was there, so we got to see Michael Stipe and Bill Barry was a drummer at that time, and then there was a guitarist, Peter Buck, nice guy. All all those guys, really nice guys.

SPEAKER_05 3:02

Yeah, and I think that's cool because I think a lot of times musicians are not, you know, part of the whole process.

How String Sessions Get Recorded

SPEAKER_05 3:09

So I need to kind of understand the process because it's difficult for me to understand it. I'm the guy that hears the song when it's all done. Now, when you guys are doing the string arrangements for parts of a song, do you hear what the the song is supposed to be like, or are you just looking at music and working from there?

SPEAKER_01 3:31

We're looking at music. And then there's a soundtrack. Uh rarely do we perform live with the musicians. Uh so we have the soundtrack, uh, they put the music in front of us, we uh we play, and then we may p have to play it again and again, you know. And then once the once they get a good track down, then a lot of times there's uh overdubbing. So so that that means they're stacking the strings uh on top of each other. So you got four violins. I think it comes out like sixteen or something. Somebody told me that once. Could be wrong. But anyway, it's it makes it sound richer. So and and then, you know, we finish the song and listen play back and see if anything's wrong. And that's the end.

SPEAKER_02 4:23

Now you had four violinists, you said.

SPEAKER_01 4:25

Now, did they have and there was a couple cellos and a couple violas?

SPEAKER_02 4:29

Great, that was my question. Yeah, yeah. No, no double basses though.

SPEAKER_01 4:33

I don't think that there were any double bases on that.

SPEAKER_02 4:35

For a pop song, it'd probably interfere with the bass guitar.

SPEAKER_01 4:38

On other sessions I've done, they've used double bases. Sure.

SPEAKER_05 4:42

So how long was the process from the recording? You know, there was a bunch of songs that were done. How long, you know, was it days, weeks, or how long to get it all taken care of?

SPEAKER_01 4:53

Typically we can finish in three hours uh to to do all that. But sometimes it takes six. But this is all music that's there for us, so we better be able to read it because that's our job in real life, you know, playing with the symphony, uh, which you haven't talked about, and you will. Um that's our job is to be able to read music. You know, it's even on an audition, you have to be able to sight read. So everybody that's on this session's really good.

SPEAKER_05 5:26

Wow, three hours, Jimmy. Can you imagine that? They're pros. Wow, that is crazy. So I did want to ask you a couple

Becoming A Violinist Through Discipline

SPEAKER_05 5:34

of things. How did you become a violinist? What made you want to play the violin? How old were you when you started?

SPEAKER_01 5:40

Um, it's a funny story. Uh well, I was five when I started piano. My mom was a piano teacher, and she saw that I had some talent uh on the piano, and um she she said, you know, when I was like nine years old, she said, I want you to play another instrument, and I think it should be the violin because when I look at orchestras, there are a lot of violins in the orchestras, more so than any other instrument. You'll have a better chance of getting a job. That's a smart mom. That's yeah.

SPEAKER_05 6:12

Did she play an instrument?

SPEAKER_01 6:13

Played piano. She was a great pianist. She played uh in Orchestra Hall uh piano, and I used to wake up in the morning hearing her practicing away. But uh yeah, she was she was the motivator for me. I love sports and I love baseball. Uh and and you know, my friends would get up and call me up and want me to play baseball with them, and I'd say, no, I gotta practice two hours first. And this is when I'm nine years old. I I I did that. Um and so then I quit piano after a year of it because I was doing okay on the violin. Um I wouldn't say that I was thrilled that I had to do it. I mean, no young kid loves to practice as much as I had to practice. I mean, I was forced to practice. I didn't get beaten or anything, but I was forced to practice. And, you know, fortunately it was a good thing, uh looking at it now. Now were you doing classical music at that time? Oh yeah, it was all classical. You learn to play the violin or probably most instruments, most orchestra instruments, you learn to play classical. Yeah, and then you can the other music is easier t to play. Now I'm not a I I can't play by ear very well. I mean I can, but not good enough. I can't do hoedown music, and I can't do, you know, uh I wish I could now. Um would have made more money probably. But uh anyway, it's it's uh classical music entirely is what the way I learned.

SPEAKER_05 7:51

So it's not until recently that I realized that it is a job. You just talked about it being your job.

SPEAKER_01 7:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 7:59

My perception was like everybody had jobs and it was like this little part-time thing that they did at night. And and and I know it sounds silly, but that's really what I thought. And I'm hoping some listeners will think the same thing and not think that I'm silly. But I didn't realize that that was a job.

Auditions And Life In Symphony Work

SPEAKER_05 8:19

So, like, how do you get the job? How how does that happen?

SPEAKER_01 8:22

You have to audition. Uh you have to find out where the openings and different orchestras are, and then you apply to the orchestra, and then they go ahead and allow you to come to the audition or not. If they don't think your uh resume is strong enough, they won't even like they won't even let you come to the audition. So you have to have a strong resume, you find out when the audition is, you go to the place, to the city where the uh where the orchestra is, um and then you take the audition and uh you play the preliminaries, you hope you pass the preliminaries, and then you go to the finals, and then you hope you pass the finals, and then you hope that they like you. And uh so that's that's kind of the way the procedure works.

SPEAKER_02 9:10

Now, did you start at the Atlanta Symphony or have you been to other ones? Okay.

SPEAKER_01 9:13

Well, when I was in college, I went to Eastman School of Music in Rochester, New York. And while I was in school, I played with the Syracuse Symphony, which was an hour and a half away from Rochester. I used to drive there, play Syracuse Symphony when they needed extra violins. Uh, and then also I played with the Rochester Philharmonic while I was in school as well. So I I got some good experience uh playing in orchestras, and uh that's that's what I did.

SPEAKER_05 9:47

So is a philharmonic anything different or just a different name?

SPEAKER_01 9:51

Different name.

SPEAKER_05 9:52

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 9:52

Yeah, yeah. Chicago Symphony, Rochester Philharmonic, Syracuse Symphony, New York Philharmonic, Cleveland Orchestra, Philadelphia Orchestra, Boston Symphony. I mean, that's I don't know who gave them the names, but but that's the names that stuck.

SPEAKER_05 10:11

Gotcha. So what kind of hours would you work? Uh I'm assuming it wasn't nine to five because people would want to come at night to see a concert. So what how did it work? Did you do a lot of practicing together certain days or so so Monday typically was a day off.

SPEAKER_01 10:29

This is a typical symphony rehearsal schedule, and it certainly can vary. But uh uh Monday was a day off. Tuesday we rehearsed from 2 to 4.30 in the afternoon. Wednesday we rehearsed from 10 until 12.30, and and then took a lunch break and then two to four. And then Thursday we rehearsed 10 to 1230. And then had a concert Thursday night, Friday night, Saturday night, sometime something on Sunday. Uh we we we would play uh we would travel like to like to um uh University of Georgia and we would play a Sunday afternoon concert there, or we would take buses to many different places within Georgia and and play um South Georgia. Uh touring, we would do uh orchestras, the whole orchestra would play. Uh and we would take buses to all sorts of places in Florida, North Carolina, South Carolina. Uh we traveled all over the States.

SPEAKER_05 11:37

So once you're in it, is it like you have to keep like every year do you have to like audition or what point is it that someone has to worry that they could be replaced?

SPEAKER_01 11:51

Um once you join the union and the orchestra accepts you after a year or two, you're on probation for that amount of time. So if you do your job, then you pretty much have the job forever, with very few exceptions. Uh there have been a couple of situations where people were let go for for various reasons, but very rarely. Very rarely. Maybe maybe in forty-six years, maybe three people.

SPEAKER_05 12:21

Wow. You know, so so what years were you part of it?

SPEAKER_01 12:26

1969 to 2014.

SPEAKER_05 12:28

Wow. That's a long time. And that I mean you you get to see a lot of change with what's going on with the world when you're talking about 69 to 2014.

SPEAKER_01 12:39

Yeah, amazing. Amazing. And we got a lot of new, you know, people would retire. There were older people. When I got in, I was the second youngest in the orchestra. I was 22. Uh, Tuba player was the youngest, he was 19, Michael Moore. And um, and then and then as time went on, some of those people retired or were kind of let go voluntarily, I'll say. And then uh a a new batch would come in, and my age would get to be in their forties, and then you get some more 20-year-olds, and then my age got to be in their sixties, and and still more. So now when we go to a symphony concert, we hear we see maybe I would say 25% of the orchestra is the same, and and the rest of the orchestra is totally different.

unknown 13:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 13:27

And they've all auditioned, and they're all great players.

SPEAKER_05 13:30

Wow, I still can't get over 1969 to 2014. I mean, that is just a long time to be part of something that is like just uh again, super cool. I like using the the word super cool.

SPEAKER_02 13:44

Now

Studio Work From Rock Bands To TV

SPEAKER_02 13:45

you played with REM, but what was the first uh pop or rock act that you played with?

SPEAKER_01 13:51

I think uh 1970 was when I started recording uh the contractor. Uh you have to kind of get to know the the main people and they have to like you and see that you can that you're capable. So I think uh I don't remember the first song that I did, but I played with uh over at uh Studio One. That's where Atlanta Rhythm section. Yes.

SPEAKER_05 14:17

Oh, I know what you're talking about. I think like Leonard Skinner or the Almond Brothers, somebody a bunch of bands were there.

SPEAKER_01 14:24

Joe Joe South, I think, recorded there. And and uh so so I recorded with them and like Billy Joe Royal uh back back in the down on the boondocks day. And then um then it just progressed, you know. I recorded a lot at Master Sound, and then there was uh Michael Thevis had a studio called Sound Pit. Michael Thevis, wow. Yeah, that was a that was a big stu it was a beautiful studio. That that was really nice. Uh well he had the money to do it. But um anyway, uh those are the main ones. And then Doppler, of course, I recorded over here a lot. Uh and they used to be downtown, and we did uh WKRP in Cincinnati uh music downtown. Which was written by one of the owners of Doppler, Tom Wells.

SPEAKER_02 15:14

Yes, yes, exactly.

SPEAKER_01 15:16

Exactly.

SPEAKER_05 15:17

All right, wait, wait. So hold on a second here. So you did the music that was played in the TV show?

SPEAKER_01 15:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 15:23

Really?

SPEAKER_01 15:24

Yeah. And also in the heat of the night, I contracted that and got a bunch of musicians to wasn't that Archie Bunker? Yes. Carol O'Connor. Carol O'Connor, he was a star.

SPEAKER_05 15:34

Oh, he has a real name. I forgot about that. Yes. And that was filmed. Wasn't it filmed in Metro Atlanta?

SPEAKER_01 15:42

Was it done in Covington?

SPEAKER_05 15:43

That sounds about right.

SPEAKER_01 15:44

Yeah, I think I heard something about that, that they were going there. But we recorded all of that. Might have been Master Sun. But yeah, we did the whole series for that. WKRP, we just played the the beginning music. Uh, you know, when they and when the show came on, you have your little jingle theme song, yeah. Theme song.

SPEAKER_05 16:04

And and but to me, that's a lot. I mean, WKRP in Cincinnati was I loved the TV show. I thought it was great.

SPEAKER_01 16:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 16:12

And just knowing that you were part of that, I again, it's just these super cool things. I don't know if you realize how super cool. And you know what? You're probably gonna leave here and start saying super cool, is what I'm thinking.

SPEAKER_02 16:26

So Tom Wells, he was a character. I worked with him at Doppler. Yeah. And uh the way that he would typically come in with a song was not with a bunch of sheet music that he had written out carefully. It was with an acoustic guitar and say it goes like this, and then do something that really climbs there. Did it did they give you sheet music or did you have to come up with it?

SPEAKER_01 16:45

It was sheet music, and and you know, there are arrangers that are a lot of times associated with the different studios. So, for instance, over at Doppler was um Jim Ellis and you know, Jimmy and uh Steve Holtz is the other guy that did we did most of our work with them, and it mainly jingles are what we did uh over at Doppler. Um, but I know they had a lot of big bands and famous groups that recorded maybe over there too. They did, yeah. Yeah, yeah, but we didn't do any of that.

SPEAKER_05 17:19

That's pretty excellent. I'm still uh, you know, I'm in my head, we're talking, and all I'm like, music in my shoes in Atlanta. There you go. Like I've got this whole thing going on. So cool. There you go. Look at that. Look at that. I love it, I love it. So

A Wedding Obsessed With Losing My Religion

SPEAKER_05 17:38

I want to mention something about losing my religion, and I don't want to keep coming back to it, but again, it we're celebrating the 35th anniversary of its number four on Billboard. But I was a DJ for weddings and parties back in 1994.

SPEAKER_02 17:55

Did I know this? Have you ever talked about that?

SPEAKER_05 17:57

I don't think I have talked about it. Okay. I think I've been waiting for this moment. Yeah. And it was cool. And most of the gigs I did were in Atlanta, Buckhead, you know, you know, all in this, you know, vicinity. And I would get this thing that would tell me, you know, what, you know, what their wedding song is, what kind of songs they want to hear, blah, blah, blah, blah. And I get this one, and it says, the wedding song is losing my religion. And I was like, wow, that I, you know, three years after the song is out, I just didn't know anyone that wanted that. And I am being honest here, when I talked to the bride and groom, I said, Are you sure you want this to be your first dance, your wedding song? And like, of course. And they were from Lithuania. And they had all of their relatives and friends come from Lithuania into this, you know, hall where the wedding was. And he, I remember the the groom saying that everybody loves this song. It just means so much to me. I I said, okay, you know, and and I don't get it, I don't understand, but that's not my job. My job is to play what they want to hear.

SPEAKER_02 19:15

Well, it's a great song, but I think what you're saying is the content and the tone of it is not necessarily perfect for a first one. Oh, a wedding song.

SPEAKER_05 19:23

Yeah, you know. Was that like the first dance or something? It was the first dance. I put it on, and they start dancing, and people are clapping, and then they start waving, and the next thing you know, everybody in the room is dancing, and then people kept requesting that song all night long. And as soon as I put it on, the floor would just fill up with people. And it was the most amazing thing that this song, and I don't know why, but it meant so much to them. And that it was it was crazy. I have never seen anything like that. I've never seen one song be played over and over at a wedding, and so many people want to go and and dance to it and just sing every word. They knew everybody knew everything. And they had flown, like I said, they came from Lithuania and they're here. And I just it has always been something that I've never forgotten. It's one of the few things that I remember from the DJ days. But I think that it's cool when you kind of put into perspective of you being part of that, that that helped reach out to them and was something that was really important for them to have that as their first dance.

SPEAKER_01 20:42

Yeah, yeah. I don't know how you dance to that song. Um, you gotta see Jim. Okay, it's not uh it's not a song with a beat too much. I guess it is. I don't know. I I never thought of that song as Yeah, it's gotten it.

SPEAKER_05 20:57

That's a little quirky beat, I guess. Doesn't it?

SPEAKER_01 20:59

You know? That's me in the corner. There you go. That's the only words I know in the whole song. That's me in the spotlight. Me in the spotlight? Yes. Losing my religion. That I know that too.

SPEAKER_05 21:08

Very good. What did you think the first time you heard it on the radio?

SPEAKER_01 21:12

You know, I don't listen to the radio. So the first time I heard any REM music was in Europe. We were in Germany and out walking and at a uh a shopping strip, and and it was uh I don't know if it was shiny happy people or losing my religion, but one of them was blasting out from one of the stores. And that's the first I said, Oh, I'm on that one. So that was kind of that was kind of cool, yeah, to be in Germany and to hear something.

SPEAKER_05 21:45

Yes, you know, shiny happy people, the the strings are really prominent in the song. Yeah, that's and you have Kate from the B fifty twos singing with it and the orchestra. I mean, it's a pretty cool song. Get down to it. I mean, and you listen to it, it that's a fun song. I enjoy that song.

SPEAKER_01 22:04

And was that recorded in the same session? Yes. Yeah, I think all of them were done there because you know, we're paid by the by the session, so it's like a three-hour session. And then they try and get as much in as they can, but if it's gonna go overtime, then they do that. If it it's sometimes it's cheaper to pay for another session.

SPEAKER_04 22:26

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 22:27

So then we do that. You know, we'll stay. Uh nobody nobody ever says, no, I gotta go home. Everybody wants them with their money, you know.

SPEAKER_02 22:35

So I remember hearing that Bing Crosby would always ask the people he hired for an extra take, so they went into overtime. Oh his little way of having the record company give them a little money.

SPEAKER_01 22:45

Make them make them some money. You know, I'll I'll tell you a side side thing on that if you got time. Um uh when we were in Los Angeles, the symphony, uh, we stayed on the Queen Mary, which was kind of cool. But we had a concert, and all of a sudden we found out that Sammy Davis Jr. had bought out the orchestra for that day so that he could rehearse with his band. He paid $25,000 back in 1973 or four, I suppose it was. And and so his band could rehearse. So it was great. So so I went to the Johnny Carson show that night, and that was a lot of fun.

SPEAKER_04 23:25

Oh wow, wow.

SPEAKER_01 23:26

No music, but it was a lot of fun. Doc Severinson and Ed McMahon, of course, and Johnny.

SPEAKER_05 23:34

The good old days of television.

SPEAKER_01 23:36

Oh, that was my favorite show. Johnny Carson. I love Johnny. Yeah, he was cool.

SPEAKER_05 23:41

So I'm sure you have some other good stories.

Fame Adjacent Moments Conductors And Stars

SPEAKER_05 23:44

What are some of the other people that you might have met and played with?

SPEAKER_02 23:48

Of course, Shaw was the uh director of the orchestra, right?

SPEAKER_01 23:52

Yes, Robert Shaw was a conductor, and he's the one who hired me once it got to that level. And um he was, of course, a great chorus conductor, uh the best in the world, I would say. And and he made he made a a group of singers, 250 singers in the symphony chorus, he made them sound unbelievable. And and they're just average people. All of them enjoy singing and they're and they're good at it, but not to sound so professional. He was he was amazing. Um so he was he was my first conductor. The second one was Joel Levy, and he was a great conductor. Um did did a great job with the orchestra, made the orchestra probably uh as good as it ever sounded. Uh, and then Robert Spano was the third conductor that I had. So only three conductors in my whole tenure with the symphony out of forty-six years. That's that was pretty good. Interesting, yeah. Um as far as as far as people, I mean, I've met lots of people. I mean Mary Ellen, who's sitting right here to my right, my wife, she um I was telling her the different people that you know, besides the classical people like Itsak Perlman and and Panka Zuckerman and Janis Starker back back aways and uh some phenomenal soloists with the symphony. Amazing. Uh but then I met, you know, Isaac Hayes and Dion Warwick and so many. And I it's interesting. I should have written down who I was recording for, but they never said anything about who I was recording for.

SPEAKER_05 25:38

Right.

SPEAKER_01 25:39

So we just didn't know. You know, we just we just did our we played our music.

SPEAKER_02 25:44

Your music is probably playing somewhere right now.

SPEAKER_01 25:47

Might be.

SPEAKER_02 25:47

Might be all over the world.

SPEAKER_01 25:49

Yeah, it might be. That's for sure.

SPEAKER_05 25:50

Yeah, I had read that the Beatles when they released Now and Then, which was a couple of years ago, that they had the orchestra, they didn't know that they were doing a piece for the Beatles, and that there was a woman that was part of it, and that she was ill and she ended up passing away. But the fact that she got to be part of something that if she had known it was the Beatles, she would have been just as giddy as anything. So most of the time you just don't know who you're recording for.

SPEAKER_01 26:22

Most of the time we don't. Every once in a while we do, but uh uh most of the time I have no idea. I knew we were recording for REM when we did that. I didn't know I was recording for well, I knew Isaac Hayes I was recording for. I didn't record for Dion Warwick. I played a show for Dion Warwick and Isaac Hayes. They did a joint thing and they had all the strings playing on pink violins, pink electric violins. Oh, wow. So it was at the maybe the old Omni, but I'm not sure.

SPEAKER_03 26:55

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_01 26:56

Uh and that was a lot of fun, actually. But BJ Thomas was another one. Um anyway, I I can't think of any others, but but there were probably a hundred of famous people that I've known over the years that I just never thought about at the time.

SPEAKER_05 27:14

So I met you once before, and you told me to ask you about Chastain Park.

SPEAKER_01 27:21

Oh.

SPEAKER_05 27:23

You know, you didn't tell me why, yeah, but here we are.

SPEAKER_01 27:26

So now I'm asking you why. So so Chastain Park. So um Symphony plays in Chastain Park. I don't know if they still do, but I think uh they play in Chastain Park uh every weekend, like a Friday night or Saturday night. Um maybe not every weekend, but a lot of weekends. And and um so the one night was the the temptations and so they came uh in and rehearsed with us quickly that afternoon. We always had just like one hour one one or two hour rehearsal with whoever the s star was gonna be. So ch so temptations are Chastain Park and it was a very hot night, and uh they they did my girl. So somebody in the orchestra told them that I knew the words to my girl. And they had a thing where whenever they did that song, they would ask somebody from the audience to come up and sing it with them. Uh and so that night they asked me to come up and sing it with them. So I mean, I was sitting on stage with my violin, so so I thought that might be kind of cool. So I ended up singing My Girl with the Temptations.

SPEAKER_02 28:45

Did you get any photos or video or anything?

SPEAKER_01 28:47

No, but there were 7,000 people sitting in the audience. So for me to sing, because I got a crappy voice. So so it was it was it was pretty cool.

SPEAKER_05 28:57

It wasn't cool. It was super cool, David. Super cool. Super cool.

SPEAKER_02 29:01

Super cool. You're right. Your mom said, okay, piano, violin, not voice.

SPEAKER_01 29:05

Not voice. And not with the temptation, because she was very strict on her classical music uh background. But uh I always I always loved all kinds of music. Uh I wasn't big on uh country music when I was younger, but I really like country music a lot more now. And lots of fiddles in it. Lots of fiddles in it, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 29:25

So growing up, we um we listened to a lot of music. We had dinner music, we had cleaning Saturday music, we always had music on. My parents always had music. And it was usually rock and roll or 50s, 60s, pop. But on Christmas Eve at 6 o'clock, we would listen to Christmas music on the classical music station on the radio. And I remember that that was really my only exposure to classical and orchestras and just, you know, not guitars wailing away and drums, you know. And it was something that I felt like, wow, this is pretty cool. And my dad was from Massachusetts, and he'd have us listen, you know, oh, you gotta listen to Arthur Fiedler and the Boston Pops, and you gotta listen to this, and you gotta listen to that. I still listen to that. And I've taken those songs and passed them on to my children that, you know, these are some good songs. I don't listen to a whole lot of other orchestra stuff. You know, we have talked about some things with cartoons that, you know, without the cartoon, without the music, the cartoons wouldn't have been what they were.

SPEAKER_02 30:42

And without the cartoons, we wouldn't know so much about classical music. Right. The kids that grew up in the 70s heard all these Looney Tunes, cartoons with great classical music. Absolutely. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_05 30:53

Yeah, and I think that it's again, like you you don't know when you first start listening to something that you're going to continue to listen to it for a really long time. And I find a lot of peace when I listen, and I enjoy that my kids like it, that they'll have their own Christmas playlist, and that they're playing these songs that that I listen to. And I'm not, again, I'm not talking about the pop songs, but I'm talking about ones that were done by orchestras and and and different things.

When Music Outlives The Job

SPEAKER_05 31:24

How does it feel to be part of something that while it might not necessarily change their lives, but it's a part of their life. That there's so many people that you don't know that somehow you've touched them even though they don't know it's you.

SPEAKER_01 31:41

Yes. All the people that come to symphony concerts, for instance, they're sitting out there and we're up there doing our thing, and we've been doing it for 20 years, and then we've been doing it for 30 years and 40 years, and some of the same music over many times. And and and you don't I never really thought about it, but I always thought it would be wonderful to be able someday to sit out in the audience and listen to the orchestra. And and when we go to a concert now, I get much more out of the music than I did because when I was in the middle of it, I love the sound of certain certain works, but but it was just not something that I was really that involved with. I mean, I did my job. It was a it was a job. And a lot I'm I'm a lot different than a lot of musicians. A lot of musicians are really uh maybe more gung-ho, I guess that's a good way to put it, than I was. Uh I loved playing, but I I wasn't it wasn't all about music. I mean, when I when I drove in the car, I listened to Sports Talk Radio. That's what I do. I don't listen to the radio anymore. When I was a kid, I listened to WLS in Chicago and I had a transistor radio and I'd stick it under my pillow at nighttime and go to sleep listening to W WLS. So I know a lot of the 50s and 60s songs, but uh but in i i when I was in the orchestra, it it was it was a job. It's it's like we think about professional golfers. I imagine for them, I mean, they're out there doing their job so they can make their money. They're not having a great old time playing golf. They're they're working at it. And I think when I played in the orchestra, I was working at it. I I wasn't I I I guess I would have to say I enjoyed it or I wouldn't have done it 46 years. But I wasn't uh as motivated as some people might have been.

SPEAKER_02 33:42

Or like m it makes me think of the example a chef. You know, the chef isn't eating the food. Yes. They're making sure everybody else's experience is yeah, yeah, that's very good analogy.

SPEAKER_01 33:52

Yeah, that's exactly right.

SPEAKER_02 33:53

Now, what are some of your favorite composers and works?

SPEAKER_01 33:56

Oh Mary Ellen asked me that the other day. She said, You better be thinking about that because that might be one of your questions. So I love Russian music. I love Shostakovich, I love Tchaikovsky. I enjoy Beethoven, certain Beethoven works I enjoy, certain Brahms works I enjoy. Mozart. Mozart, I enjoy certain Mozart. Yeah, but I like Mozart a whole lot more now since I've gotten older than I did when I was younger. I I I never wanted to play Mozart when I was younger. Just wasn't my thing.

SPEAKER_02 34:30

Now, Tchaikovsky is the nutcracker suite, correct?

SPEAKER_01 34:33

Yeah, that's the nutcrackers. He wrote that.

SPEAKER_02 34:35

The symphony when I was younger would would play every show with the Atlanta ballets Nutcracker. And then I believe they pulled back on that, right?

SPEAKER_01 34:44

That was a financial discussion. Let's just put it that way. And uh they broke apart. What happened was um the ballet, I think it cost money to have the symphony too, and I think they figured they could do it with with the recording. And so the dancers then weren't playing with live music anymore, they were playing with the recording, which is fine. You know, you can do it. But I think it saved them a lot of money. It's not the same, though. I've been live is much better.

unknown 35:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 35:19

Yeah. Speaking of live, I saw Bob Weir of The Grateful Dead. So Bob Weir and the Wolf Brothers, they played with the Atlanta Symphony Orchestra a couple of years ago. And I kept wondering what is this going to be like? What, you know, I'm used to these songs as rock songs, or they do a bunch of folk songs. How could they possibly pull this off? And I was absolutely amazed at how well they did and how much work had to go into it because it's a whole show of the band with the orchestra. And I know a bunch of bands do that, but this is a lot of work to make this sound as good as it did. Yeah. And for the band to know, hey, we're we're not playing right now, the orchestra is going, and for then the orchestra to know, all right, the band's got this, I I just thought it was fantastic. And and it's something I would definitely go check out again.

SPEAKER_01 36:17

That's great. You know, you know, probably was done with a two and a half hour rehearsal.

SPEAKER_02 36:23

Really?

SPEAKER_01 36:24

The whole thing was put together in two and a half hours, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 36:26

And the conductor probably just has to be on his toes to know some of them have their own conductors.

SPEAKER_01 36:31

So if he knows if he he knows the music probably, so so the and sometimes the band rehearses with us. Sometimes they don't even rehearse with us. But but there's a a rhythm, there's a beat, and all the musicians in the orchestra can do it. I mean, it's just what they do.

SPEAKER_05 36:48

Yeah, I'm fascinated by that. I just think that's just I I can't imagine it. I mean, I just can't. Like, oh, two and a half hour practice, and boom, this thing is perfect. Yeah. You know?

SPEAKER_01 36:59

Yeah, yeah. That's the way it works. So all of Chastain stuff was all two and a half hour rehearsals in the after like a Friday afternoon, then we play it Friday night and Saturday night, something like that.

SPEAKER_05 37:11

Wow. Yeah. So when you say a rehearsal, you know, obviously you're you get the sheet music, but do you get it beforehand? Is it something like if you're at home, you can just start like doing the violin?

SPEAKER_01 37:28

Usually you can. You can get it in advance. Um a lot of people do, and some people don't.

SPEAKER_02 37:34

And which one were you?

SPEAKER_01 37:36

I was one that uh had played so much of it so for so long that I I never took it home. I I was always a fairly good reader. And uh if there was something here or there, I figure at the first rehearsal I'll see what I don't know, and maybe work on that a little bit, and that would be that would be it.

SPEAKER_02 37:56

Now, have you ever been playing something cold, sight reading it, and you're kind of looking up ahead and there's a bunch of accidentals and a key change and a time signature thing, and you're like, oh my goodness, what's coming?

SPEAKER_01 38:08

Well, the only time that would happen is before the first rehearsal. Okay. Because often I didn't go in and get the music. I always check the music. I I was principal second violin in the symphony, so uh if there were solos that had to be played by me, um you know, concertmaster has most of the the big stuff, but uh sometimes I had to play some things. Then I would l look through it and make sure that I had that covered that I could do it. So I could do that at the first rehearsal. But I didn't pay attention to most of the rest of it because you're in a group and it's not like I was slacking off. I just felt like I didn't need to do it. When I needed to, I did it.

SPEAKER_05 38:51

That's just amazing. I mean, it's to be that good that you can do that. Like I I can't wrap my mind around the whole thing. And Jimmy, I know that you're a musician, you play the guitar. I mean, is that's got to be difficult for you to understand. I know that you can just freewheel it pretty quickly, but I'm the other side though.

SPEAKER_02 39:11

I only play by ear. I mean, I know I know music theory, but I don't read.

SPEAKER_01 39:16

Right, right. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 39:17

All right.

SPEAKER_05 39:18

And that's I did not know that.

SPEAKER_01 39:20

That's pretty cool.

SPEAKER_02 39:20

I mean, I I can read chord charts, but not sheet music very well. I would have to sit there and map it out the way that a child a four-year-old maps out a word.

SPEAKER_01 39:29

I I could never read a c chord chart. Okay. Because I was I wasn't that into theory when I when I was at school, so I never learned that sort of thing. Uh but I'm uh amazed uh when the when the musicians come in, the guitars and so forth, and they come in and so and so in the booth says it's C four to six six C seven chords this and that. I I know C seven chord. But other than that, you know, when it gets difficult. And and I don't I have no idea what that's all about. That's interesting.

Stepping Away From Violin To Love

SPEAKER_01 40:04

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 40:04

So do you still play the violin?

SPEAKER_01 40:06

No. I I quit um about well, my I I was teaching violin lessons all the way until maybe f four years ago, five years ago. And my my youngest grandson was taking violin lessons with me, and then he quit. I guess I turned him off to violin, I don't know. But but he quit and once he quit, I was having trouble with my hands. I could never play the way I would want to play.

SPEAKER_03 40:37

Right.

SPEAKER_01 40:37

I could play well enough if you know, for somebody to want to listen. But it would be so frustrating that i I said it's not worth it.

SPEAKER_04 40:46

So well, I'm sorry to hear that.

SPEAKER_01 40:48

Yeah. Well, poor Mary Ellen, she she married me thinking she was gonna get a symphony musician and that she was gonna, you know, be able to hear music around the house all the time that I was gonna be playing, and she loves music. I never listened to any music ever. And and she she loves it, and and I tell her she can listen to it if she wants to, but she doesn't.

SPEAKER_05 41:11

So you thought I guess you were gonna play the violin and she was gonna be making dinner and you were gonna be prancing around the room.

SPEAKER_01 41:19

Strolling around. No pr no prancing. No prancing and no cooking. Oh, Mary Ellen does not have a microphone.

SPEAKER_05 41:28

I think that's probably quite bad. Yeah, that's probably a good thing at this point.

SPEAKER_01 41:32

She's used to hearing me say stuff like that.

SPEAKER_05 41:34

So well, I look up to people like that, that they are able to do something that I can't. I wish I could do that. There's so many things I wish I could do with music, but I can't. I just talk about it. That's all I do. And I just think that, you know, all these things that you've done, that forever, when people are listening to the Out of Time album and shiny happy people and losing my religion, and that they're always going to hear a part of you forever. And things like that just I just think are super cool, not to overuse the word, but I do, and I mean that. I I truly do mean that.

SPEAKER_01 42:15

Well, I think that's super cool. I do. I do. I don't know what else to say with that, Jimmy. And I would never have I would I would never have thought of it that way. I I never I never think that what I do is ever going to be past the moment that I do it. And that's not true. You're right. I think you're right. Yeah, I think Mozart goes on forever. And and so even the modern day things go on forever. It's cool.

SPEAKER_02 42:42

That's what I always say. Art endures. Yes, it does. People forget, uh, oh yeah, you did some business thing, whatever. But but if you were part of music or art, people remember it. Yeah, it sticks with them. Yeah, that's right.

SPEAKER_05 42:55

Yeah, and I'm really glad that you came in. And you know, I know that when we first met, you kind of were like, Yeah, I don't think anybody really wants to hear. And I think this has been fantastic. I mean, just some cool stories that we don't get to hear every day about things that we like, and just really understanding what goes on to be this musician in an orchestra that it's your job and that you can quickly just do stuff, you know, and because it's your job, you have to do it.

SPEAKER_01 43:25

Yeah, right. Exactly. Well, I I appreciate you inviting me in to talk about it. I'm glad glad we got together finally. And and me too. I'm glad I met you. Thanks to Peggy and Chris Cole. Yes for for introducing us. So it's great. Great to meet you.

SPEAKER_05 43:42

Yeah, and I think that their daughter Mackenzie used to give her violin lessons.

SPEAKER_01 43:46

Yeah, that I that's a whole nother story. It's a long story. You want to hear it? Sure.

SPEAKER_05 43:50

We do want to hear it.

SPEAKER_01 43:52

You got time? Okay, so Mackenzie started violin lessons with me when she was in second grade.

SPEAKER_05 43:57

Wow.

SPEAKER_01 43:57

And she studied until she was in Eighth grade, and she's very athletic and very smart. She's she's like she's got it all. And and you were her coach. I coached lacrosse, girls lacrosse. Yes. And and and she took that lacrosse all the way into college, and we went to college to watch her play, and she was phenomenal. Uh scoring goals and the fastest one on the field, and it was pretty cool.

SPEAKER_05 44:24

Was that Finlay University?

SPEAKER_01 44:25

Finley University, right, in Ohio. Um but back to back to that. Uh so in eighth grade she they came to a lesson and she uh Peggy said h Mackenzie's mom said that uh she couldn't uh she didn't have enough time to continue with lessons. And so I think she quit in eighth grade. Uh or she might have played through eighth grade and then stopped it when c high school came around because she was so involved with sports. Um so at one of the lessons, uh the students would always pay me at the beginning for the month of a lesson. So Peggy wrote the checkout and in the memo section it said, I think you should ask Mary Ellen to go to dinner sometime. I think you would you would you would have a good time. And I said, Peggy, I don't I don't uh get involved with students' families. I I didn't want that that could cause all sorts of problems. So I didn't want to get involved in that. Well, I thought about it and I I uh called Mary Ellen up and uh in a roundabout way we finally communicated and she said uh yeah, she she would like to do that. So we went out uh to Ted's and then we were gonna go to a movie, but we talked four hours at the table and and we had a had a great time and that progressed uh into us getting married in August. Just this so this was January to August and a very short period of time, but but we both knew the first thing we said to each other was I'm not getting married anymore. I'm not getting married anymore. You gotta watch out when people say that. Yeah, yeah. Well, it we did. And uh it's been great. It's been the best thing of my life.

SPEAKER_05 46:14

Well, that's excellent. And you know, just for clarification here, you know, I've known Chris a pretty long time. Yeah, Mary Ellen's son, and I almost feel like I know you from all the stories that he's told about you. I'll bet. And it it gets even more than that. Jimmy, take over from here.

SPEAKER_02 46:32

Well, yeah, because your son Michael is one of my good friends. And he was Cher's my wife Cher's roommate way, way back when they both moved to Los Angeles. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 46:42

It's amazing how how it's all come full circle, sort of.

SPEAKER_05 46:46

Six degrees of David. Yes. I remember when I first mentioned that I was interested in bringing David on, and I didn't say his name, and I was like, oh yeah, this guy and everything. And you said his name. I'm like, how did you know his David?

SPEAKER_01 47:01

Yeah. That's pretty cool. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 47:03

That's that's it. It's a small world after all. Yeah, yeah. It is.

SPEAKER_01 47:08

It is. Anyway, that's the story of Mackenzie and Peggy and Chris and Mary Allen. It's a great story. It's a great family. There you go. Great family, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 47:18

Well, that is excellent. We really do appreciate you being on the show today. Thank you so much for coming in. And, you know, you are welcome to come in anytime you think of any new stories, you know where to come.

SPEAKER_01 47:30

Thank you very much. Thanks for so much for having me, both of you. You're welcome. You are

Closing Thanks And Contact Info

SPEAKER_01 47:35

welcome.

SPEAKER_05 47:35

So that's it for this episode of Music in My Shoes. I'd like to thank David Arens, our special guest here, talking about playing with REM, talking about Atlanta Symphony Orchestra, singing My Girl with the Temptations. He did it all. Again, we always want to thank Jimmy Guthrie, show producer and owner of Arcade 160 Studios, located right here in Atlanta GA. Vic Thrill for our podcast music. You can reach us at music in my shoes at gmail.com. Please like and follow the Facebook and Instagram pages. This is Jim Boge, and I hope you learned something new or remembered something old. We'll meet again on our next episode. Until then, live life and keep the music playing.