Irish Bobby Cassidy: The Unfiltered Story of a Boxer and Father E142

A lot of people love boxing stories because they’re clean: a tough kid fights his way out, the crowd roars, the credits roll. Irish Bobby Cassidy’s life is not clean, and that’s exactly why this conversation matters. I’m joined by Bobby Cassidy Jr. (longtime journalist and author of Requiem for a Middleweight: The Irish Bobby Cassidy Story) to tell the full story of a Levittown legend who kept moving forward, even when the punches came from outside the ring. 

We go deep in boxing history, including Sunnyside Garden in Queens, the road to Madison Square Garden, and the wild fact that Irish Bobby turned pro without an amateur career. Bobby Jr. shares a unforgettable Muhammad Ali moment after a controversial loss in Miami, plus the pop-culture curveball of his dad’s cameo in Rocky. 

Then we get into the harder truths: childhood abuse, alcoholism, boxing business politics, and how post-career bookmaking and loansharking pulled the family into adult stakes too early. We also talk about Cassidy's decades long friendship with Sonny Franzese, and the most painful stretch of all, dementia, paranoia, and the shock of losing trust with someone you’ve been loyal to your whole life. 

If you care about boxing biography, Long Island history, sports journalism, and the real cost of perseverance, this one stays with you. Subscribe, share it with a friend who loves fight stories, and leave a review.

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Transcript

Levittown Reunion And Book Setup

SPEAKER_02 0:22

Hey everybody, this is Jim Boge, and you're listening to Music in My Shoes, Podcasting Worldwide. That was Vic Thrill kicking off episode 142. I'm thrilled to be here with you. Let's learn something new or remember something old. The book, Requiem for Middleweight, the Bobby Cassidy Story, recently has been published, and its author, Bobby Cassidy Jr., joins us today from Long Island, New York. Bobby, welcome to Music in My Shoes. I appreciate you coming on the show and talking about the book.

SPEAKER_00 0:56

Yeah, of course. It's good to see you. Uh it's been a while. So uh yeah, I'm happy to be here.

SPEAKER_02 1:01

Well, let me just go first how we first met, because I think that kind of ties into the whole book here. We met 45 years ago, and I was walking uh Birch Lane in Levitown when you, Tommy, Timmy, Kenny, and I don't know who else, but I think there was some other people, you guys jump me. And I'm getting punched, and I go down on the ground, and then someone says, That's not him. And your name was on your jacket, and I said, My father knows your dad, and immediately you picked me up, and everybody realized I'm not the gym that you're looking for. I'm someone else. So someone, and I don't remember who it was, someone says, if anyone gives you trouble, to let you guys know, and you would take care of it. And I found it funny that the guys offering me protection were the guys I needed protecting from, which was funny. And it's so funny how life is. Here we are 45 years later, we still know each other. Um I'd like to think of this as a Levittown guy interviewing another Levitown guy about a Levitown legend.

SPEAKER_00 2:18

And that's a good way to put it.

SPEAKER_02 2:20

Yeah, you've been a journalist for just about 40 years now. You've covered over 200 Boxing World title fights, 10 Belmont stakes, two Super Bowls, multiple books, and your latest is very personal. Being about your dad, Irish Bobby Cassidy. It's a great read. I highly recommend it. What's the message that you wanted to get out there?

SPEAKER_00 2:44

Well, first, uh, Jim, if I did not uh ever apologize to you for jumping you the first time I saw you. Never too late. Let me start by apologizing now.

SPEAKER_02 2:56

No, you did, and and it's been something that's been very good for me. I'm I'm actually glad you did.

SPEAKER_00 3:01

I remember another incident that we could talk about later. It was me, you, and Chris. That that I've kind of thought a lot about. You probably have no recollection of it, but well, let's get to that later in the hour. But uh the message, I think my father's message is one of perseverance. I think that's what this book is all about. Um, he had he overcame so many things in his life: an abusive childhood, alcoholism, uh, you know, rose to be the number one contender of the world, in the world in boxing, uh, had his time out on the streets, you know, as a bookmaker and a Shylack, uh rebounded from that, went to jail, rebounded from that. So he was always he was always striving and always overcoming something. And to me, that's the ultimate message, right? To always just keep striving to keep moving forward. And if anyone exemplified that, it was my dad.

SPEAKER_02 3:52

I would agree. You know, I definitely would agree. Obviously, he was your dad. You know, we lived uh, you know, just kind of like a block around the corner from you.

SPEAKER_00 4:01

And your mom's still on walk-on?

SPEAKER_02 4:03

Yes, yes, still there, still there. Good, good. And, you know, you have what your version of things are, and then you know, we have the version of what we hear from people and what's going on and stuff. And and it was perseverance. It was that he was always overcoming these obstacles, and throughout it all, the love for you and your brother Chris was the constant. You know, that was the one thing, no matter what was going on with him, that never changed. And it's it's evident in the book when you read it and you're interviewing people and they talk about that.

SPEAKER_00 4:41

Yeah, I mean, uh it's a little it's a little weird for me to to talk about that. Uh I don't know why, sometimes it is, but yeah, his uh his love for us was always on his sleeve. He never hit it. He never, you know, he never was shy about telling us that he loved us or, you know, crying with us when he we needed to cry and laughing with us. I mean, he could laugh with the best of you, he could always try to make you laugh, he would lift you up uh whenever he could. And um, yeah, he was a great dad. In in spite of all of that, he was a great dad. And and I write about a little bit about it in the book, and it was in one of the videos we posted too, but like he would tell everybody, like what me and Chris are doing, what we're doing. Oh, this is what Robbie's doing, this is what Chris is doing. Like, you know, he he people would tell me, like, oh, your dad told me, you know, just the rant most random people he would be talking about us. So that's that's an incredibly good feeling to have and uh when someone recounts that to you. So uh, you know, it kind sometimes it makes me a little self-conscious, you know, but uh, but yeah, it was amazing he was an amazing dad. And and we had an amazing mom too. Like just because my dad had a public life, um, that was he was out there and everything was public about himself. Um, you know, I I I don't discredit just discount my mom's influence on us too. She was also amazing.

SPEAKER_02 6:06

Yeah, she definitely had a lot of influence on Chris with music, her love of music and and his love of music and your dad, you know, influence on you, you know, you wanted to do some boxing and he always was trying to make you stay away from that. Yeah. And so it, you know, and it's like that way with kids with with you know, my parents, you know, one of us gravitated towards my mom, one gravitated towards

Sunnyside Gardens And A Ring Debut

SPEAKER_02 6:29

my father. So your dad made his professional debut at Sunnyside Garden Arena. I'm wearing my Sunnyside Garden shirt right now.

SPEAKER_00 6:36

I love it.

SPEAKER_02 6:37

Uh in Queens, New York, March 19th, 1963. He knocked out his opponent, what, 38, 39 seconds into the first round. Twenty two of his fights were at Sunnyside Garden. While it was demolished in 1977, talk a bit of you know how important it was to boxing as well as to your dad.

SPEAKER_00 6:58

Yeah, I mean, Sunnyside was just a legendary arena. And, you know, back in back in the 50s, 40s, 50s, and 60s, uh, it was it would be known as a fight club, right? So Madison Square Garden was the cream of the crop, you know, the best, the Mecca, they called it, the Mecca of boxing. Everyone wanted to fight at the garden. But before you got to the garden, you had to prove yourself, prove yourself at some of these smaller clubs. Sunnyside was one of them, St. Nick's was another famous one, the Ridgewood Grove Arena was another famous one. So Sunnyside was the Queen's version uh of that. It was uh the most popular fight club in Queens, and it outlasted all the other clubs. It was the last surviving fight club in New York City where, you know, in the 30s and 40s, there's probably 30 of them, you know, just all over the place. So it was um it was the last surviving club. So that showed how long it would endure. Um, that was a testimony to its popularity and the the fights and fighters who fought there. Um, but also in terms of my dad, um, yeah, it was close to home. It was it was closer to home than than most of the other arenas. A lot of people from Levitown would would go in and see him fight. So he was my dad was very popular with fans. He was uh he was an exciting fighter to watch, a good puncher. So people came to see him fight. So promoters wanted him on the card because he sold a lot of tickets, and sunny side became a place where you know he really learned how to fight because uh what a lot of people don't realize, and what a lot of people don't realize how difficult this is, he turned pro without an amateur fight. He never fought in the golden gloves, never fought anywhere else other than the street, right? So he had a million street fights, and he was he got arrested quite a few times, was gonna go to jail, and uh the judge literally said to him, It's in the book, you know, uh, you either go to the boxing gym or the next time I see you, you go to jail. So he went to a boxing gym and that started him on the path uh in his life. Um, his pro debut was his first real fight in a ring, and it's a really great story. His trainer was Johnny Sulow, old-time trainer, great, great guy, really my father's first father figure in his life. He um he really looked after my dad and and another guy by the name of Doug Duffy, who's also from Levitown, also turned pro around that time. And so my dad was a Southpaw, a left left-handed fighter. And he's warming up before the fight in the dressing room, and Johnny Sulo knows that realizes that the other guy's trainer is kind of lurking around. So he tells my father to warm up right-handed. My father had no idea why, but he didn't question him. This this is like his his father figured he wasn't gonna say anything. So he warmed up right-handed, he gets in the ring, and my father told the story so many times over the course of his life. I I could hear it ringing in my brain right now, him telling the story. And he comes out charging out as a southpaw, and the guy looked at him like, you know, was confused. So he hit him with a left hand, he went down, they counted him out, and that was it. So that was that was his pro debut. Um, so yeah, Sunnyside was always a special place for us. Uh we got to a certain age, and he would bring us to the fights at Sunnyside, me and Chris, and we could always bring a friend here or there, you know, I'm sure. So me and Kenny came at some point or the Comac Arena. I do remember one time Kevin Meehan came, Stoney, and uh we were we were running around the the arena, kind of just wreaking havoc, like 12-year-old kids might do. And uh the guy my father was fighting, uh, just kind of stepped out of the locker room and was just like loosening up, shadow boxing. And Kevin walks right up to me. He goes, Are you fighting Mr. Cass tonight? And the guy goes, Yeah, I am. And Kevin says, You're gonna get knocked out, and then we all ran. So leave it to Kevin Mean, leave it to Kevin Me and to uh to do that. So, but that was a that was a lot of fun.

SPEAKER_02 10:48

Yeah, Kevin was a good guy. Kevin was definitely a good guy for sure. So your dad fought at Madison Square Garden, but I believe he also fought at the old Madison Square Garden. Is that correct?

SPEAKER_00 11:00

Yeah, I fought it both.

SPEAKER_02 11:01

That's pretty cool to have been able to do something like that. Uh, you know, when I talk to people, a lot of times people don't realize that this is not the original Madison Square Garden. I believe there's been like four or something.

SPEAKER_00 11:14

I think this is the this is this might be the fourth one, yeah. It's either three or four, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 11:18

So to be able to do, you know, whatever the and I don't even know what the other Madison Square Garden looked like, but to do that and be able to do this, and then ultimately for me, because I'm a hometown guy, being able to go to the Nassau Coliseum and you know, fight there. To me, I love going to the garden, but it's something with the Coliseum because it was right down Hempstead Turnpike for us, that hometown feel was just fantastic.

SPEAKER_00 11:43

Yeah, yeah.

Muhammad Ali After A Stolen Decision

SPEAKER_02 11:44

We recently spoke about Muhammad Ali lighting the Olympic cauldron here in Atlanta in 1996. Share with us about your dad and Ali.

SPEAKER_00 11:54

Yeah, I mean, it's a great story. My father had fought in Miami Beach a handful of times, um, trained down there for a bit, and so one of Ali's main bases was the Fifth Street Gym in Miami. And so, you know, they would see each other, kind of get to know each other, you know, and nod hello at first, nothing, nothing real, you know, substantial. Um, my as my father was fighting down there. But the more you see a guy and you kind of see what he's all about, you know, I guess, you know, it it then they started a little chit-chat, a little conversation, blah, blah, blah. So they became kind of friendly. Um, so my father in 1971, in January of 1971, fights Luis Rodriguez, who was a well former welterweight champion, uh, great fighter. He's in the Hall of Fame. And this is a huge fight for my dad. Uh Luis Rodriguez was uh a Cuban, he defected from Cuba and very popular in Miami. So uh there's some video clips of this on YouTube. Um, so they fight. Uh my father knocks him down early in the fight and kind of wobbles him around. Um, but they give the decision, they give the hometown decision to Rodriguez. And back then, where there wasn't that much of a spotlight on boxing, and most a lot of fights weren't televised. There's uh some film clips of this, but it wasn't on television. You could get away with that. You could get away with stealing a decision from somebody, and no one is gonna protest too much. The only people who saw it were the thousand people in the arena or something, you know. So uh after the fight, my father's like really dejected. It's it's the photo that's early in the book. Um, he's sitting on the bench and his head is down, and Ali comes in uh after the fight and seeks him out. So he says, Where's Bobby sitting? He finds him and he basically says, Listen, you won that fight, you know, hang in there, you know, you you're gonna be a champ someday. You won that fight, you know, don't let this get you down. And uh he had two pictures with of him and he signed him to me and Chris. Me and Chris each got one, said to Robbie, your daddy is the greatest, Muhammad Ali. So so that was uh that was an amazing moment. And uh yeah, they were they were kind of friendly for the rest of their careers. My father didn't go back down to Miami as much after that, after that particular fight, but he fought on several Ali cards, so yeah, so they they maintained a friendship for a while.

SPEAKER_02 14:16

That must have been pretty cool for you and Chris to get this autograph from another.

SPEAKER_00 14:20

Yeah, it was wild. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 14:22

Wow.

Rocky Cameo And Fight Night Myths

SPEAKER_02 14:23

So the movie Rocky comes out in 1976, and your dad had a small part at the end of the film. He was a police officer, and I think he spoke.

SPEAKER_00 14:32

What was the Yeah, so he he struck up a friendship with Bert Young, the actor who played Pauley, and uh through a mutual friend Vinny Savino. And um, so Bert Young was gonna be in this movie. No one knew how good Rocky was gonna be yet. It was, you know, it hadn't come out, so it wasn't like you know, there was a wasn't a lot of buzz about it, but it was a boxing movie, so Bert figured, you know, this would be a great movie to get him in. And so the scene is at the end of the fight after Sylvester Salone, after Rocky loses to Apollo Creed, uh, Bert Young's trying to get in the ring, and my father's the cop that grabs him, and um he says, uh, you know, Bert Young says, I'm Rocky's friends, and my father grabs him and says, Yeah, yeah, sure, everyone's Rocky's friend. And he tries to, you know, he's gonna stop him from getting in the ring. But Bert behind, you see, he pulls up the ring and Adrian scoots in to get into the ring with Rocky. So it's kind of a pivotal moment because Adrian, you know, if you remember Rocky's screaming for Adrian, and Adrian is is in the dressing room, right? And she makes starts making her way towards the ring. So that's the moment she does finally get into the ring and have the big moment at the end of the movie. So it's kind of a cool scene. Uh he got checks for that movie for the rest of his life. Uh every time Rocky played somewhere in the world, he got a check. Um, and at the end, they were like three dollar checks. But could you could you imagine what uh you know what Sylvester Sallone gets every time that movie? I mean, just shows you the power of Hollywood, right? That movie was in '76. You know, he he he died only a couple years ago and he was still getting checks in the mail.

SPEAKER_02 16:12

That is crazy. That must have been cool to be able to tell all your friends, hey, my dad's in Rocky.

SPEAKER_00 16:18

Yeah, it was pretty wild at the time, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 16:20

So Bert Young, who you mentioned, played poly. He once gave your dad pre-fight advice that maybe wasn't the best.

SPEAKER_00 16:27

No, it was not the best. Uh he it was uh the Christy Elliott fight, which was a really big fight. Uh, Christy Elliott was a top uh late heavyweight contender from Ireland and fought in the Olympics representing Ireland. So it was a it was an important fight. And Christy Elliott was convinced he was gonna beat my dad, you know, just like he and it was a whole buildup in the press, like I'm the only real Irish fighter on the card. And my father was kind of insulted by that. And uh, you know, so there was there was a little bit of bad feeling going into the fight. And so Bert kind of tells him, All right, I want you to just be relaxed. Like, just go in there like you're floating on the air. I forget the exact wording, it's in the book, but he just tells him to be relaxed and and don't think anything of it, just be nonchalant. And he goes, I'm gonna give you a signal, you know, like midway through the round, and then boom, you he's like you jump out of your crazy bag and you knock him out, right? So my father's like, Oh, yeah, yeah, okay, okay, I'll do that, you know, whatever. He's and right 30 seconds into the fight, Christy Elliott drops him and and like drops him bad, you know. And Chris and I were sitting closer to the ring, and we were so scared that we ran up to where my mom was sitting. We were that was like too close for comfort. But you know, my father gets up, knocks down Christy Elliott, like immediately after that. So this kind of brawl ensues, and my father won the fight. But he was like, Yeah, why why did I listen?

SPEAKER_02 17:52

Yeah, but you know what? Sometimes we listen to our friends even though we know we shouldn't, right?

SPEAKER_00 17:57

Yeah, yeah, for sure.

Childhood Violence And Hard Roads

SPEAKER_02 17:59

So let's go back a little bit to uh to Pelican in Levittown. You know, uh your dad had moved out there, you know, with his mom, his stepdad, and um what what was it like, you know, for him as a child?

SPEAKER_00 18:14

Yeah, it was pretty bad. It was, you know, probably as bad as you can get, I I would imagine. Um he was uh his stepfather used to beat them, the him and his brother, and and the mom too, sometimes. Uh, you know, he was an alcoholic, my grandmother was an alcoholic. I didn't my father didn't read read didn't meet his real father until he was 21 years old and fighting at the garden just came up out of nowhere and said, I'm your dad. Father didn't even know what to think of that. But um, yeah, so he was he was really abusive. He would hit my father. I mean, there was there was you know, you know, just hit him if the salt and pepper shakers were misplaced, not in the right spot on the table. And uh, we just kind of make fun of them, you know, call them an Irish lowlife and things like that. And just uh was probably as bad as it can get, you know, through threw weights at him at one point, you know. My father had very, very turbulent childhood. And and you know, he'll he admits it, he talks about it later, and and uh, you know, that he had a lot of anger in him, a lot of anger built up in him, and and honestly, a lot of it directed at at his mom because he blamed her just as much because she allowed it to happen.

SPEAKER_02 19:30

Right.

SPEAKER_00 19:31

Um, so he he I mean he really we didn't really have much of a relationship with them when I was growing up. I mean, we we met a handful of times, but it was not wasn't like, you know, on my mother's side where our grandparents were loving and caring and we spent so much time with them. Uh it wasn't like that on my dad's side.

SPEAKER_02 19:51

So you mentioned your father um went into another dangerous profession, you know, became a loan shark and a bookmaker, you know, after he retired in 1980. Talk a little bit about you know that transition for him.

SPEAKER_00 20:05

Yeah, uh, you know, it's um he was a tough guy, and um, and you know, like I said, he had a lot of anger inside him. And boxers didn't make a lot of money in the 70s. And so my father was always looking, he worked construction jobs uh throughout the course of his life, but that was physically demanding work, it was grueling work. So he couldn't work construction and still train and be 100%. So he figured, let me, let me, uh, let me figure out something to do to supplement my income. And that something to do was, you know, starting to take bets and collecting money. And uh, so he he really kind of leaned into uh loan sharking and bookmaking, even towards the end of his career, as he was an active fighter at one point while he was still fighting, um, he got arrested for bookmaking for gambling charges. And and uh yeah, so that was, you know, it he he was like I said, he was a tough guy and he could impose his will on people pretty uh in in or out of the ring. And so he thought he looked at it as that's my greatest asset, right? That's what I can do, like to be blunt about it. He could scare people, right? So who was not gonna pay him? This is this is him telling this to me, right? This isn't me saying this, this is him telling this to me, who's not gonna pay me, you know, like who? You know, who's got the balls not to pay me? Right. And that's kind of what he did, you know, and and that's how he made money.

SPEAKER_02 21:33

So he confided in you a lot.

SPEAKER_00 21:35

Confided in me uh a lot, a lot, uncomfortably so at some times.

SPEAKER_02 21:40

A lot of trust in you, yeah, you know, and thought you probably to be one of the most loyal people. And you talk in the book how he, you know, your brother Chris was shielded kind of from you know everything that was going on and allowed to be a normal. Teenager.

SPEAKER_00 22:01

So you might want to ask Chris if he feels that was that was kind of my feeling, but um you should ask Chris the next time you talk to him. But I I think because I was older, I got the brunt of it, right? If Chris was older, he would have got the brunt of it, probably, you know. But Chris was always it to my view, right? Chris was always kind of shielded from this stuff. Like I got the heavy stuff put on me, like the heavy secrets and the heavy, I'm going to jail. You know, I I heard all those conversations. Chris ultimately did too, but um, yeah, I think it's just because I was older, you know, I was the older son, so that's why it came to me.

SPEAKER_02 22:37

So from my perspective, is I think that Chris definitely had a more normal teenage, you know, and I was hanging out with him a lot at that point.

SPEAKER_01 22:45

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 22:46

And I always wondered why you acted so much more mature and so much older than what your years were, not really knowing everything until I, you know, read the book. And things make a little bit more sense. Um, did you kind of at times feel like you had a watch over Chris to make sure that, you know, he was doing okay and that things went normal for him?

SPEAKER_00 23:12

I I never felt that I had to watch over Chris. Um, because he was doing fine, you know. I mean, he was doing great. I guess we're two and a half years apart. I never, I never, I mean, Chris was fine, you know. Like I don't I didn't think he needed protecting or needed shielding. Um, you know, it was just the luck of the drawer. And let's face it, I tell him this all the time. I just told him this the other day, he was always much cooler than me anyway. So, you know, uh he didn't he didn't need my help with anything, trust me. Uh, so you know, so it was uh, you know, he he was I I didn't I didn't ever feel of course if I felt he needed someone to look out from, I would do it. I just didn't think he needed it because he was he was he was Chris was good, man. He was he was living life.

SPEAKER_02 23:58

Yes, he was.

SPEAKER_00 23:59

And a little bit, I would say he was unburdened by the stuff I was burdened by, which was great. I mean, you know, he got to he got to live life more on his own terms and he had a great time.

SPEAKER_02 24:08

Yes, he did. So I met Chris at the North Village Green in 1982, I think it was the summer of 82, and you were shooting hoops on the basketball court, and Chris was like up on the backboard or behind the backboard, and he was taking pictures. I was riding my bicycle and I rode up to say hello to you, and you're like, oh hey, this is my brother. And little did I know that, you know, Chris has been a lifelong friend of mine, you know, since that day. You know, we have, he's one of my closest friends, and it's just crazy sometimes how life works, how I met you, and then I met Chris through you. And I cannot get out of my mind this image of him like, how did he get up on that backboard and you know, taking these pictures? And it just it's a memory that just hasn't gone away at all.

SPEAKER_00 25:02

Yeah, we were looking for some of those pictures. We found a couple of them, a couple of them actually recently. Um, but yeah, I mean you knew Chris was going to be a great photographer, right? Because he figured out how to get a really cool shot. And um, I was probably trying to dunk or something. Uh, you know, my friend Timmy could dunk, I couldn't dunk, but um I was probably trying, I was probably telling him to get a picture of us dunking. And um uh, but you know, the green was an amazing place, and and uh me, Timmy, Kenny, Tommy, the means, God bless them, you know, uh uh they lived right across from the green. I mean, you couldn't ask for a better childhood. Um, the amount of incredible pickup basketball games we had at the Green. Uh, you know, guys from Azalea would come over, or guys from the East Green, or we'd go to other courts. But I mean, we played basketball, I think, every day. Every day over the summer. Didn't matter how hot it was, didn't matter if it was raining. We figured out a way to play basketball. Um, and then just go in the pool, right? We go in the pool right after playing basketball. And then there were older guys at the green who were good basketball players that we learned from, you know, Mike Devaney, the Neerys, Johnny Neary, Pat Neary was a great basketball player. She's a woman, she was phenomenal. Uh, so yeah, it was uh, you know what it was like. It was just it's hard to it's hard to tell people about that time if you didn't live, if you didn't live at the green. It was the center of the universe. We had the deli, you know, we had the Milty's lunchinette, and we had the pool, and we had the basketball court. Like what what else?

SPEAKER_02 26:34

What more could you ask for?

SPEAKER_00 26:36

What else did we need? You know, we were there every day, all day.

SPEAKER_02 26:40

Yeah, and I was lucky enough, it was on my street, was just able to, you know, walk, you know, walk straight down for you. You would just come make a left and and head down.

SPEAKER_00 26:48

I would cut through Tommy Connor's yard. I would Tommy lived diagonally behind me, and so I would wake up. Uh, you know, I obviously you remember no cell phones, nothing like that, right? So I'd wake up, get what I was gonna get, get basketball, whatever I was gonna bring to the green, cut through Tommy's yard, knock on his door, grab him, and then we'd meet Timmy and Kenny on the courts and Jimmy Mean for a while, too.

SPEAKER_02 27:09

There you go. What could be better, like you said? Yeah, yeah. So your dad trained some fighters, including WBC light heavyweight champion Donnie Lalon, and WBO middleweight champion Lonnie Bradley. Did he find satisfaction in it even though he never got the title shot?

SPEAKER_00 27:26

Yeah, it was uh look, it was it was a great consolation to him to have trained those guys to the world title. Um, did it did it bother him a little bit inside 100%? Because he always felt he always felt that he should have won a title. Um uh he never got the shot, and that bothered him till his very last breath, I can tell you that much. But um working with Donnie and then Lonnie was extremely gratifying and and and having them win world titles, you know. Uh, and and both of them talked about how important it was uh to him to to them to have my father in the corner. And you know, Donnie told him after both they both told him, you know, like this this title's for you. We did this for you, you know. So that was a really that was really nice for him. And they were the Donnie and Lonnie are like first class guys, just great guys. Uh, you know, my father trained so many guys, uh, Lenard Jackson, Kevin Collins, uh Peggy Donovan Ward won the Golden Gloves, a first year that women were allowed, uh Jamie Drubin, Godfrey Nayakana, uh just all really good guys. He loved he loved the guys that he trained.

SPEAKER_02 28:36

I'm glad that he had that opportunity to feel some sort of championship, you know, even if it was only at that level. So one of the things in the book that you talk about is that you could have someone managing you, but that didn't really mean that they had your best interest. So can you talk a little bit about that?

SPEAKER_00 28:56

Yeah, I mean, boxing, it probably still is in some ways, uh, but boxing back then was it was easy to manipulate peep fighters, purses, uh, situations. Uh I'll I'll give you an example. Uh I I'm not gonna call out their names, but the Luis Rodriguez fight um that we talked about before when my father lost the decision, right? Um the uh where he it was a split decision. A lot of people felt he won, the local paper thought he won. So his manager, let's just say the purse was $7,500, right? And the manager gets a third of that money. Well, the promoter gave him an extra thousand on top of that and said, Hey, you know, we really want Bobby to come down here because it was a good, it's a big name, a good fight for Rodriguez, it'd be a good win for him. So by giving him the extra thousand, it's kind of almost like accepting a bribe. Like, hey, you're gonna come down here and whatever happens, happens. You know, if our guy's still standing at the end of the fight, you know, he's gonna win. Uh, that's kind of like the it was almost like tacit approval for that to happen once once you took the money. So, and of course, he still took the cut, the one-third cut of his purse, too. So um, there there are a lot of situations like that. Another manager decided, uh, which was completely um, you know, in the mid-60s, my father was um young, tough Irish guy, you know, very popular, started fighting at the garden, and this other manager decided to take him like all over the world. He fought in uh Sweden, he fought in Rome, and he fought in South Africa. And it was almost, and those are untenable situations, especially in the 60s. Like you're not gonna, you have to knock the guy dead cold, knock him out cold, count to 100, then you're gonna win the fight. It was so easy to rob people in in those situations. And so the guy basically just used my father as a a way to see the world for free, you know. So, yeah, so he was not, he did not have really the best management.

SPEAKER_02 31:07

Yeah, and unfortunately, that is kind of, I guess, why he ended up not with a title shot when you have those opportunities and and someone's guiding you in the wrong way.

SPEAKER_00 31:17

Right, right.

SPEAKER_02 31:18

So 1978, I was in sixth grade, I was at Summit Lane School, and we had field day. Back then, field day is whoever your teacher was. You mine was McKeon, I think it was McKeon's mafia, and you had to make your own t-shirts and draw whatever on there, and I can't remember the other ones. But your dad was the honorary guy to come, and when it was like the 50-yard dash or the hundred-yard dash, he would take the little gun and you know, he'd be like, Oh, you're gets that going, like shoot the gun. And like we were all in awe that, you know, Mr. Cassidy was here at Summit Lane for us. And he was a really, really popular guy. What, you know, what was it like being around someone that was so popular with people?

SPEAKER_00 32:11

Yeah, it was it was really cool. I mean, he was my dad was charismatic, you know, he liked to laugh. He he, you know, the one thing, uh just to divert, you know, uh someone at his wake said this, one of the guys who spoke at his wake said this, you know, as as as much as he had gone through in his life, um, he smiled a lot. He laughed a lot. You know, he was he loved to have a good time and laugh and joke. And so yeah, he he but he was, you know, he was so popular because of the way he fought, first and foremost. You know, like he put it all on the line, you know, didn't didn't, you know, when it came time to to fight, he fought. Like he wasn't looking to get out of that ring, and people appreciated that for him about him, and they cheered him, and that extended outside the ring. He was very popular. There were a lot of situations. We'd be sitting in a diner, people would come up to us for autographs, and you know, he always signed stuff and always made himself available to kids. So uh yeah, it was fun, you know, it was exciting because he was so popular, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 33:12

I bet it was. I bet it was. So you mentioned your mom earlier. Did you plan when you were deciding about this book to make it kind of about your family? Was that always on your mind?

SPEAKER_00 33:25

Yeah, I knew I had to include her, you know. I mean, she I mean she had an incredible influence on me and Chris, and so there was no way I was not going to include her in some way. I mean, like I said before, obviously my father's life was way more public. Um, so you know, he's he's the face of it really because he was so public. But you know, we all we all lived this together. It was all it was it was a crazy ride. So we were all kind of part of it.

SPEAKER_02 33:51

Excellent, excellent.

Sonny Francis And Street Protection

SPEAKER_02 33:53

So how does Sonny Francis come into all of this? How does he fit into the picture here?

SPEAKER_00 34:01

Uh Sonny was a guy, as you know. Uh he was the um eventually became the underboss of the Colombo crime family. And uh Sonny loved boxing. Um a mutual friend took Sonny to see my father fight in Sunnyside. It was probably 1965 because at one point Sonny Sonny goes gets a 50-year sentence for bank robbery, uh, a sentence that most people think was a frame, he was framed for it. Um I happen to agree with that. I don't, I don't, I think he was not involved in that. I think the government just wanted to get him. Um, anyway, this is probably 1965 because he goes away by like 1968. So um he he goes to see my father fights, you know, likes you know, is exciting. He really likes them. They meet after the fight and they became friendly. Um and so yeah, that started a friendship that lasted, you know, five decades or something, you know. Um, and Sonny unfortunately is in and out of jail during that time, so the friendship gets interrupted. But when Sonny is out of prison, uh, he takes his kids, his sons, to see my dad fight. So they grew up knewing who who my dad was, and they just became like super friendly over the years with with the two families. And uh the interesting thing about Sonny is that I mentioned that many people believe uh that he was framed. Um it was a Newsday reporter, uh Manny Topel, uh, who covered crimes in courts for Newsday for for many, many years. He dug into Sonny's case on the bank robbery charge and basically, basically um exonerates Sonny through the through the newspapers. So while they take that to court, you know, Manny did all the investigating and he got someone to recant their story, and someone took a lie detective test and said, No, we you know, we never knew Sonny, he was just implicated. Um, so Sonny always had this fondness for Newsday because this reporter went to bat for him. And um, so Sonny finally gets parole. They don't erase the conviction, but they let him out of jail, they give him parole. The unfortunate thing for Sonny is, and everyone will say this, he was a gangster to his core. He was true and true gangster. So he would get violated on parole every couple of years because he would he would go to a meeting and there'd be four other wise guys there, and you know, the FBI was watching, so they'd arrest him, send him back to jail for three years. So he did a lot of that 50 years on the installment plan. But there were times when he was out of prison that my father and him would reconnect. And uh again, they didn't really do business together. Uh, but Sonny helped him out later with it with his situation. Um, but I got to know him when he one of the times he came out, uh, he heard that I was working for Newsday. And he tells, he told my dad, he said, Hey, tell your son I want to meet with Manny Topel, that reporter, because he still wanted to get that conviction vacated because he he would get violated for Pearl every couple of years. So the first time I met Sonny, he wasn't even with my dad. We were, we were, he asked to meet Manitopel, and I went out to dinner with them, and it was just a fascinating conversation. And Sonny's main point was the main point that he had was he was under so much surveillance that the night that he was implicated for this bank robbery, there was this meeting, and Sonny always felt that okay, I was under so much surveillance, there's pictures of me somewhere else on that night. Police or the FBI, NASA County Police FBI have photos of me somewhere else that will prove my innocence. Right. And as hard as everyone tried, we could never come up with those photos. Um so yeah, that was that's how we got to know Sonny and he and my dad were were tight over the years. And um, you know, as as I mentioned, my father was uh, you know, was was Shylocking and bookmaking, and and he got into a problem with another wise guy who he was friendly with for a long time, and then they just the the friendships started to deteriorate and and this other guy started putting a lot of pressure on my father and started to my father kind of like fell out of favor with him, and Sonny basically said, Listen, you tell him you're with me, that there's no more problems, nothing else is gonna happen. And that was kind of the end of it. And so he he did him a really a real solid there.

SPEAKER_02 38:24

That's definitely a good friend to have.

SPEAKER_00 38:26

Yeah, he was a good friend to have for my dad for sure.

SPEAKER_02 38:29

Without a doubt, without a doubt. So because this is music in my shoes, and I guess we should call it boxing in my shoes for this episode. Yeah, I wanted to bring up we were walking home from school one time, and it was a couple of us, I don't remember. It was me, you, and someone. It could have been Timmy, I I I don't remember. And I had longer hair, and I had a backwards baseball hat on, and I had like a Heineken beer shirt on, and I remember you saying, I'm ready for the cover of Cream Magazine. And I took it as a compliment. I was telling everybody, like, man, I'm ready for the cover of Cream Magazine. And you know, at the time, I had no idea what I was going to do with my life. I none whatsoever. And I've had the opportunity to have this podcast and talk about music and things that I love that are really important to me. And, you know, that moment definitely is something that I've kept that I was like, you always need to be ready, like you are going to be on the cover of a Cream magazine or Rolling Stone magazine or whatever it is. And you know, I appreciated that, even though it probably came out of jest from you, but it's definitely something that has stuck with me all of this time. So Mad Larry had a song out about 20 years ago. It was called Last Party.

SPEAKER_00 39:57

Yeah, it's great.

SPEAKER_02 39:58

And your your brother did a black and white video, and it intertwines actual fight footage with your dad's um basement. You know, he's in the basement and you know, he's going up against the uh the punching bag. It is a great video, an absolute great video of a man, you know, at a certain age and then going back to the younger days. And I love that.

SPEAKER_00 40:25

Yeah, it's a it's an amazing video. Yeah, I love it too.

SPEAKER_02 40:28

And that is another part of our music part of the uh the show.

SPEAKER_00 40:33

I'm gonna tell you something. I'll let me just I'll tell you this story now because we might we might forget later and walking home. You you you had mentioned um you had mentioned that you know my father kept us away from boxing, which is true. And uh I did find I was finally able to experience when he went to jail. I was I was probably 21 or 22, and and uh um I started working out and I would spar with Kenny. We'd spar in my basement all the time, and then uh then I ended up over at the Westbury Gym and I finally got that experience because he wasn't home to stop me, right? So I I needed that experience, but I realized that I wasn't like him, I wasn't tough like him, I just wasn't, and that's what you need to be a fighter. But there was this moment that I also realized, like, who am I kidding? I'm not my dad. Um, and I don't know if you're gonna remember this, but but this was this was such a clear illustration to me that I was not my dad and I could not live up to his shoes. Me and Chris were it was late on like a Friday night. We were on Sherwood, we were just walking around. I I forget what we were doing. We were probably at the green, and you're probably not gonna remember this because it was probably just like a random night for you guys. Chris probably won't even remember this either. Um, and some guy came up to us and he was a little drunk and he was older. Like if I I'm older than you guys, so if I was 16, 17, he was probably like 25, and he was really acting strange, and he was he was drunk, like and I don't, I don't, I don't feel threatened, but it was just a weird situation. He kept talking to us, and I was I'm kept saying to myself, I'm gonna knock this guy out. I'm just gonna knock this guy out because I don't know what he's talking about, I don't know what he's doing. And you know, we're all talking, and he just keeps he was just asking weird questions. Um, and I remember having my fist in a ball and just standing there, and it was like, I'm I'm gonna knock the I just kept thinking I'm gonna knock this guy out, and I never did. And my father would have. Right. Like my father would have, my father would have, like in a second, right? And I was like, wow, that's I'm not my dad, I'm never gonna be my dad. And that was like a clear illustration of like why, you know, I'm just not that tough guy like he was. And that night stuck with me for so long, and I I and I obviously to this day I know it was the right thing to do not to knock him out, but for so many years I wondered, like, should I have, you know, what if he did something to somebody later that night, or what if he, you know, did something to you or Chris, or you know, like I really thought about that night. Um I can tell that you don't remember it or else you wouldn't have to be around.

SPEAKER_02 43:07

I don't remember it.

SPEAKER_00 43:09

Um, but it was the yeah, it was me, you and Chris, and we're on the corner of like Sherwood and Walcott. And yeah, it was weird, it was a weird thing, man. But it stuck with me because of what I didn't do, and I struggled for a long time to to wonder if that was the right thing to do or not.

SPEAKER_02 43:23

Well, it probably was the right thing to do because you realized who you are and who you're not.

SPEAKER_00 43:29

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 43:30

You know? So uh off the top of my head, another thing that I do remember is in your kitchen, the first time I ever heard the song Make a Circuit with Me by the Pole Cats, I was with you. And you probably don't even remember the song. I actually listened to it uh probably a couple of weeks ago. But you know, it's funny, even though you weren't the musical one the way that Chris was, I I heard that song from you and I was like Man, that's a that's a great song. I really enjoyed that.

SPEAKER_00 44:02

Yeah. I don't remember that moment, to be honest with you, th just like you don't remember mine. But um, you know, Chris, I I I did like music, not as much as Chris, but I, you know, I I used to love it when he played those albums, and especially New Wave, you know, I worked at a bunch of us worked at Spit, you know, which was great. You know, the nightclub that the Passionis owned and Doug Duffy. And so, you know, I was always into that kind of punk rock music, you know, as an extension of Chris and uh as an extension of working there, and we were all kind of into that music. And uh yeah, Chris Chris had a um Chris had a great record collection and of course uh photos. He took so so many great photos at concerts.

SPEAKER_02 44:42

Yeah, your mom took him down to uh Florida for the Van Halen. Rolling Stones. Yeah, Van Halen Rolling Stones, I believe it's 1981.

SPEAKER_00 44:50

Yeah. And that was some of his, he got amazing photos at that concert. Those are some of his first his first concert photos, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 44:58

Yeah, they really are some great photos. So,

Dementia, Distrust, And Loyalty

SPEAKER_02 45:02

you know, as your dad got older, you know, as many people do, he developed dementia. Yeah. And, you know, I know that that was a a real tough time for for both of you. And you know, what what was it like going from a man that had been so strong-willed and strong-minded to now he's devo developing dementia and and and certain things are happening?

SPEAKER_00 45:28

Yeah, it was so hard. It was, you know, of all the things we went through, you know, in life, you know, the messy divorce and the alcoholism and the you know, him going to jail, I I I I would have to say that was really the hardest thing. And and one of the things that was so personal for Chris and I, you had said it before, and I'm not saying this to kind of you know pat myself on the back, but you talked about loyalty and and I was very extremely loyal to him. And all of a sudden he didn't trust us anymore. You know, he thought, and and paranoia is one of the first like hallmarks of dementia.

SPEAKER_02 46:00

Right.

SPEAKER_00 46:01

And um all of a sudden he didn't stop trusting us. He thought I was stealing his money, he thought I was stole a uh winning lottery ticket, and it would just it would just boggle my mind how he could think that about me. And it just it took me a really long time to reconcile that. It was really hard to reconcile that. How could this guy who I did everything for him, you know, like I did, I collected his money, you know, I I I went out on the street and collected his money for him, you know. Like I, you know, who does that at 16 and 17 years old, 18 years old, like you know, I you know, so who does that, right? And I didn't ever ask the question. So I'm not saying not again to pat myself on the back, it's just the way life was, but um, how do you not trust me? You know, I I got him stories in the paper and in the magazines, and just it was so hurtful to me to deal with that. Um, the the distrust of me and Chris. And um, and then I realized it was still hard. He was not trusting anybody. Like he thought his best friends were working for the FBI, he thought the people closest to him were were, he thought his his girlfriend Valerie was working for the FBI, which was which was horrible for her to go through. But then I realized someone had told me, like, you know, your dad's sick. You have to understand this is not your dad talking. And if he had cancer right now, you would not be feeling this way, you would not be thinking this way, you would not be mad at him. And it's true, you just have to try to be as supportive as you can, just knowing that he's gonna say some really hard stuff to you at times. And uh it was it was hard to deal with, and and um, you know, the from the paranoia, then it went to the memory loss, then it went to uh, you know, kind of just fur deeper, deeper into the into the memory loss. Um, but he uh, you know, the story I told you about is pro debut. The the the the the moment I realized this was really happening was we were at a ring eight meeting. Um, ring eight meeting, ring eight is uh uh retired boxers association, and it's like a social club for retired fighters. Everyone goes and they have a good time and they tell the war stories. And we used to, Sonny loved boxing, Sonny Francis loved boxing so much. We used to drive him to these meetings, and then uh we always drove him there, but we never drove him home. He'd slip out the in the middle of the meeting, he'd slip out the back, he was gone. Like I'm like, what where did Sonny go? My father was like, I don't worry about it. You know, sure enough, next month we pick him up and then he'd slip out again and he was gone into the night. So um, anyway, we're at a ring eight meeting, and someone said, Oh, Bobby, tell us a story, tell us a story. And and he I could tell he was slipping already, and he didn't really want to tell a story because my father loved to tell his stories, and so he started to tell the story about his pro debut, which I said before I'd heard him tell it a million times, and he left out the part where Johnny Sulo told him to warm up right-handed, and that's the whole essence of the story. Right. And I was like, oh shit. I was like, man, this is this is bad. Um, so I you know, it was it was hard, man. It was it was a struggle.

SPEAKER_02 49:06

Yeah, I know I spent some uh late night phone conversations with Chris, and I remember him telling me about the lottery ticket. I'm like, I made him have to tell me all over again because I couldn't understand what was going on with it. And you know, then to understand about dementia, and you know, it it's sad that people have to go through that. Last time I saw him was in 2019 at uh a premiere Chris did of Dennis and Lois on Long Island, that's the last time I got to see him. You know, one of the things about the book is that you know, knowing you and and and knowing your brother, that you are as honest and as sincere and you just put it right out there. And I am like, wow, that is just gotta be one of the hardest things to do to be able to put warts and and everything out there. What what made you decide that you were really just gonna come clean on everything and and be as transparent as you could possibly be about your dad? Because the book is not like Irish Bobby Cassidy, the greatest fighter, he didn't get a chance at this, and you know, he it is about all the things, the trials and tribulations. And, you know, when did you decide and how did you come to that determination of I'm gonna put it all out there?

SPEAKER_00 50:32

Yeah, I don't think he would have wanted it any other way. Because he was as he was an open book. I mean, you know, like I said, I said earlier, like he could be uncomfortably transparent with me, you know, like stuff that I didn't never needed to hear, you know, about affairs or whatnot. And uh yeah, so so I don't think he wanted it any other way. I mean, clearly he took me into his business, his bookmaking, and I knew all of that. And and you know, I know who were made guys and who weren't made guys. Uh, you know, I know I went to social clubs with him. So he was open and he did not hold, he didn't want the truth held back in any way, shape, or form. And he overcame a lot. And maybe that was part of it. Maybe he wanted people to really understand what he had overcome in life because the uh child abuse was a big thing and the alcohol was a big thing, and he beat both of that. Like he overcame that. So, yeah, that's showing your warts, but it's also showing the power of perseverance. So he was open about everything from the beginning, and so that's why the book was just an open, it's just an open case, you know, like there was no, there was really going to be no holding back.

SPEAKER_02 51:41

And I think that's what makes it so good. That's what makes it this good read that it captivates you, and you just want to read through it and not put it down because it does show all the sides, and not just all the sides of your dad, but it's showing all the sides of how it affected each one of you, whether it was your mom or or yourself or Chris. Um, and you know, you mentioned like Val's mentioned in there, Rocky the dog is mentioned in there.

SPEAKER_00 52:09

He was the best, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 52:10

You know, um, and you talked about you know Kevin in the book, you know, Paul Devine's mentioned in the book. Yeah, you know, we could go through all these different left town people that are mentioned.

SPEAKER_00 52:22

I mean, Paulie Devine, that was a that was an incredible night in our lives, sad night, right? I mean, he was the one just to just to say that story. We were my father was in a good place in life. He had gotten out of jail for the first time. He he went to jail, he gotten out, he turned his life around. He was in a really good place. And he was like, you know, my father was always super competitive. He's like, uh, let's let's have a race. I can beat both of you in a 40-yard dash, right? And so me and Chris are like, sure, let's race. So we go out into the street, so we're gonna race. Paulie Devine sets up the lamppost. All right, we're gonna run from here to there. Paulie's about to say, like, he was either the finish line or the starting line. We're just about to race. Unmarked cops, pull up, jump out of the car, and he's arrested again. He's they card him off to jail. Paulie saw that. You know, there's no there's no hiding that. There's no hiding what happened. It was in the papers the next day. Everybody knew. So, you know, that's there was no hiding his life.

SPEAKER_02 53:18

There was also no hiding his car. He had the shiniest car.

SPEAKER_00 53:22

It's I used to wash it that I've ever seen.

SPEAKER_02 53:25

And it didn't matter if it was day or night when you went down Sherwood, you would see that black, what was it? Uh Cadillac?

SPEAKER_00 53:33

Black Elder, Black El Dorado. Yeah. Elder Cadillac Eldorado.

SPEAKER_02 53:36

And it was always shiny as anything. And it's because of you.

unknown 53:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 53:42

Well, I used to wash it by hand, and then it was my job to take it to the car wash when I learned how to drive. I could drive it to the car wash. And I remember one time uh I was a young driver, right? But I my father would give me money, I'd take it through the car wash, and he was always like a good tipper. And so we would tip the, I would tip the guys thinking I was the big shot, you know, but my father would give me the money. But I remember one time, you know how the car wash, you kind of put it in neutral and you get on this belt and it kind of just takes you through slowly. I forgot to put it in neutral. I left it in park, and the car like zipped through the car wash, right? It was like flying through the car wash, and this guy's like screaming and cursing, and and uh so you know, there luckily there was no other car in front of it, and and it got slowed down enough by all the things. This guy's like screaming and cursing at me, and some guy goes, Stop, stop, that's Bobby Cassidy's son, shut your mouth, right? And then the guy's apologizing to me. But yeah, I like I was a kid, you know, I was kept it in drive, and the car just went boom, went right through the car wash. But anyway, that was uh that was about his yeah, the catalog. He loved that caddy.

SPEAKER_02 54:45

Well, he loved it enough to make sure that you kept it clean because seriously, it was shiny.

Why The Book Holds Nothing Back

SPEAKER_02 54:50

So we're getting close to running out of time, and I think we could spend hours talking with you about all different things. I did want to bring up, didn't you write some bios for like the back of boxing trading cards in like the early 90s or so? Because I do have an Irish Bobby Cassidy card that he autographed for me.

SPEAKER_00 55:08

I did write the backs of those some of those, and it's so I told him they didn't have to pay me to do it as long as they put my father in the set. Oh. Yeah, so that's how that's that was my deal with them.

SPEAKER_02 55:19

Well, that worked. I um I used to get these packages when I had moved to Atlanta, and Chris would send me different things, whether it was music related or it was pictures of of different uh fighters your dad was working with, and he sent me a bunch of the uh trading cards, and I still have them. I still actually have them in the envelope that I got them in.

SPEAKER_00 55:39

Oh, wow. That's nice.

SPEAKER_02 55:40

So I really appreciate you coming on on the show. It it's been fantastic to speak with you. This is our first show where it wasn't about music, it was about something totally different. But I think it it's something that is fascinating and and knowing you, knowing your dad, knowing your brother, and you know, knowing the streets of Levitown that you talk about so much in it and in you know, different spots. And it just was something I thought would be really cool to get out to people that might not know who he is and give an audience to your dad that you know he might not get otherwise. And so I definitely appreciate you coming on and and speaking with us today.

SPEAKER_00 56:24

Appreciate it, Bobby. Yeah, of course. Thank you so much for having me. Really, really appreciate it. The book is Requiem for a Middleweight, the Irish Bobby Cassidy story. It's available on Amazon.com and BarnesandNoble.com. And, you know, he poured his heart out in the ring, and I tried to pour my heart out in the book, and I hope hope people enjoy reading it.

SPEAKER_02 56:43

I'm sure they will because I loved it and I got through it in just a few days. So that's it for this episode of Music in My Shoes. I'd like to thank Bobby Cassidy Jr., author, journalist, and someone I'm proud to know. I'd also like to thank Jimmy Guthrie, show producer and owner of RK160 Studios, located right here in Atlanta, Georgia, and Vic Dribble for our theme music. And Vic Dribble, I actually met for the first time at your father's funeral.

SPEAKER_00 57:11

Ah, okay.

SPEAKER_02 57:11

And here he does the theme music for the podcast.

SPEAKER_00 57:14

County God.

SPEAKER_02 57:15

This is Jim Boj, and I hope you learned something new or remembered something old. We'll meet again on our next episode. Until then, live life and keep the music playing.