S2.E19. From Classroom to Career: A Procurement Graduate's Journey

Ever wondered if there's a more direct route into procurement than the typical "falling into it" story most professionals share? In our fascinating conversation with Loren, we uncover the surprising world of dedicated procurement degrees and how academic pathways can provide unique advantages in this ever-evolving profession.

Loren shares her journey from a curious business management student to a fully-qualified procurement professional with not just one, but two procurement degrees. What makes her story particularly compelling is how she earned her MCIPS qualification as part of her university experience - skipping the grueling process of balancing full-time work with professional development that many in our field endure.

The conversation takes unexpected turns as we explore the differences between public and private sector procurement, shattering the myth that public procurement is simply process-driven and uninteresting. Loren's candid assessment of her experiences reveals why she ultimately found her home in the public sector, where no two procurement exercises are ever quite the same.

We dive deep into social value in procurement, with Loren explaining her role as a social value lead and how public sector organizations now mandate at least 10% of scoring be allocated to social value considerations. This growing emphasis demonstrates how modern procurement extends far beyond just "buying things" to creating positive societal impacts.

The discussion also addresses the elephant in the room - artificial intelligence and its potential impact on procurement careers. Loren offers pragmatic insights into how her organization approaches AI in tender responses, balancing innovation with accountability.

Whether you're considering a career in procurement, looking to enhance your qualifications, or simply curious about the profession, this episode offers valuable insights from someone who took the road less traveled. Subscribe now to hear more conversations with procurement professionals who are shaping the future of the industry.

Transcript

Speaker 1 0:15

Hello and welcome to let's Talk Procurement, the only show you need to master the art of procurement. Let's go to master the art of procurement, let's go. So welcome to today's episode. Everyone you will notice that I, luke one, have got a very deeper voice, uh, and I just sound generally all around sexier and more masculine. The reason for that is because I'm actually using a luke 10 ai voice. So luke 10 ai voice is available in stores now. Buy a luke 10 and get them to say anything that you want through ai for the low, low cost of 999.99. And today I introduced my co-host, luke 10, with a Luke 1 AI voice.

Speaker 2 1:09

I see what we're doing here, william, so I ask well, I didn't even ask, I let you do the introduction. How nice of me. And I normally say to you you know, here's the guy with the best hair in the world or the you know the newest glasses going and give you a nice little intro and all you're trying to do is steal my identity yeah, that right.

Speaker 1 1:31

Let's switch back now to our, to our real voices. Right, three, two, one hello yeah, that was good yeah oh, I'm back, we'll see how that comes out. I suddenly feel, uh. I suddenly feel cleaner and and uh, more muscular again. It was actually a full body swap, wasn't it?

Speaker 2 1:55

uh, hang on, I've just checked under my t-shirt and now I've got a Kashmirian rug in there for the hairiest chest in the world so that, so that part transferred back with you did it yeah, apparently yeah right, what's going on today, then?

Meet Loren: From Public to Private Sector

Speaker 1 2:16

so today we've got lauren on the podcast. She. She and I used to work together at a previous company. Um, the interesting thing well, there's many interesting things about lauren, one of which is that is that she has done a procurement degree, not only an undergraduate degree, but also a master's. Yeah, so she, lauren, spent the time talking to us. Um, and I was thinking at points during the episode that obviously we've got a few. A proportion of our listeners is international to the UK. Some of them. Some of them are non-native English speakers, and Lauren, lauren, I wouldn't say she has a thick Welsh accent, but she does have a Welsh accent, um, so I want some feedback from the listeners on whether you were able to understand Lauren so how do the listeners give us feedback?

Speaker 2 3:15

Luke?

Speaker 1 3:17

our email address is 2lucs1sip at gmailcom. That's the number two Luke's plural, the number one cip at gmailcom. That's the number two luke's plural, the number one cip at gmailcom. Alternatively, we do have instagram, which I think is let's underscore talk, underscore procurement, or we have a text function. If you just look into the description of the episode, you will find it there wow, almost like you.

Speaker 2 3:46

Uh, you know that off by heart. I'm very impressed. I feel like that's your, that's what you bring to this podcast. It's beautiful. So, listeners, good luck with uh, with the welsh accent. Let us know how you get on. We found it all right, but obviously we, we kind of uh, we kind of work close to each other. So I think if you're, if you're kind of further further away in, english isn't your first language, you're going to have a great time. So any questions for lauren at the end as well, please do let us know, because we think she's got a lot of useful insights into you know what what kieran the greek can do for you and and kind of why it's beneficial. As we like to say, sit back, strap in, relax and enjoy. See you in a bit so introducing today's guest.

Speaker 2 4:40

Uh, hello and welcome, lauren. Thank you for joining us in our very virtual studio. How are you? I'm good, thanks you. Yeah, not too bad. Thank you for bearing with us. We're always unprofessionally professional.

Speaker 1 4:55

If that, to be honest, yeah.

Speaker 2 4:58

Luke, I'm kind of disappointed. I gave you the spotlight to kind of do your. You know you said you wanted. You literally said to me yesterday you want to step up to the plate, you want to step up to the plate, you want to take more of a leadership role in this podcast and you can't even introduce your own guest.

Speaker 1 5:12

Well, well, the way, the way I wanted to do it was was I wanted to make it as if we're directing a movie, so so I wanted it to be like uh, dramatic at the start and and sort of just like fade, fade in the chatter and then we just like peer out of appear, out of smoke or something you mean like a dim, dim the light sort of thing.

Speaker 2 5:38

It's like introducing all the way from.

Speaker 3 5:42

I don't know.

Speaker 2 5:43

Swansea Wales.

Speaker 3 5:47

Oh do.

Speaker 1 5:47

I come in now. It's like what's it called the old western. You kick the saloon doors down and you enter as some sort of like.

Speaker 2 6:00

And Lauren goes in with her pistols and all sort of procurement knowledge. Right, yeah, that's it. Can you see, Lauren, why I don't let him do anything here?

Speaker 3 6:09

Yeah, a bit useless.

Speaker 2 6:11

It is, isn't it?

Speaker 1 6:13

Yeah, so me and Lauren used to work together at a previous company. That's how we know each other. But what I wanted most of the episode to talk about today well, some of it anyway is the fact that you did a procurement degree. So later in the episode we're going to be revealing everything about this mysterious route.

Speaker 2 6:44

So what you're saying is Lauren's reveals all, because that sounds a bit shady okay, now.

Speaker 1 6:51

Now you phrased it like that, should we introduce the listeners to?

Speaker 2 6:55

Lauren a little bit. Should we get our favorite? Um, what do you call it? The quickfire questions that you always prepare days in advance?

Speaker 1 7:02

yes, yeah, days in advance and didn't just scramble on my laptop to find them. Um, the first one is pretty, pretty easy, I think uh introduce yourself, so give us a little bit about your, your experience and and what you're currently uh involved with okay.

Speaker 3 7:22

So obviously, as you've said in, lauren, I've been in procurement, I'd say, for nearly seven years now, including uni studies and being in the profession. What have I been involved with in regards to work-wise or are we including you in stuff now so are you public sector, private sector?

Speaker 1 7:46

have you always been one or the other?

Speaker 3 7:49

so I started in public sector for two years and then took the plunge to go to private for a year or two wasn't my cup of tea. I don't think I'm fit for the private sector. I don't think I'm hard enough for it. Um, so I did. Yeah, it wasn't for me. It was more of a buying role, to be quite honest, which, yeah, I think it was too transactional for me, and I'm not saying that it was too easy. It was just a bit too cut and paste, same thing every week, kind of. And it was in an area which so it was in like cyber security, which was way out of my depth, I think. I think it would have taken me a good 10-15 years to learn the ropes for that industry. But, yeah, so then I jumped back into public sector then, which I think I've been been in this role now for, I want to say, three, four years, uh, yeah nice.

Speaker 1 8:49

It's interesting you say that about, um, private sector being quite samey, because I think a lot of the complaints about some people or maybe people that haven't worked in public sector. They would say that that's very process driven and very kind of just. I wouldn't be able to disagree with that either. Right.

Speaker 2 9:09

They basically make it all sound boring.

Speaker 1 9:11

Yeah, procurement is just repetitive.

Speaker 3 9:15

That's what you're saying that was regarding the buyer role I was in, so there wasn't too much procurement involved in that. But if we were going to say, is procurement in public sector boring? Absolutely not I would say like I don't think I've done one procurement the same since being in public sector. Like there's always been some sort of hurdle, some sort of and I'm going to say issue. We're in a good way because it obviously shapes how you're going to your next procurement or if you're going to go for an interview. Issues and problems are always good for your scenarios when you're going to an interview yeah, for sure.

Speaker 1 9:58

Yeah, and I guess it's kind of about the refinement of of that. Everything you're doing is about learning and making it better for next time, right?

Speaker 3 10:06

100 cool.

Speaker 1 10:09

So next one's maybe a difficult question. Um, actually, after I say it now, you're going to think I'm being mean, but what's, uh, what's something interesting about yourself? Tell me something that's um, that isn't known by many people oh, I'm boring.

Speaker 3 10:27

Um, oh, we had the christmas. I say christmas do our works, christmas do. Recently and someone did one of those quizzes um, you have to give an anonymous um fact about yourself and then the team had to guess. But mine was really boring. Mine was I got picked to play rounders for Wales, but this was back in school now, so I don't think it was like a proper adult team, I think it was like a junior team or something, but yeah, but I couldn't play because my parents took me on holidays they killed your dreams.

Speaker 1 11:02

The parents chose the sun. Yeah, chose the sun over your holiday your career yeah, so. So if there's any suppliers that cause new issues, you just go with your your bat and sort them out no, I'm not quite.

Speaker 3 11:15

I don't own the bat now. I play netball now, but, yeah, I'm not too good at that either what position? Keeper less running does that mean you're like seven foot tall no I'm only five foot six. So it's awkward when I've got like a six foot shooter, because even when I'm on my tiptoes I can't even reach them.

Speaker 2 11:35

So I think that's interesting.

Speaker 1 11:38

I like that yeah, yeah, uh, next question is sweet or savoury?

Speaker 3 11:46

I'll say both or no.

Speaker 1 11:48

No.

Speaker 3 11:49

Mmm sweet.

Speaker 1 11:52

Okay, nice, and similar to that. If you could only have one meal for the rest of your life, what would it be?

Speaker 3 12:01

I feel like these are questions I need to prep for.

Speaker 2 12:04

They are basic job interview questions, aren't they? Yeah?

Speaker 3 12:10

Oh, I'm going to have to just play a safe and safe Chinese takeaway.

Speaker 2 12:14

It's not a meal. That's a bit scandalous that.

Speaker 3 12:17

Oh, that is a meal what?

Speaker 2 12:20

egg fried rice, unless I say what's on my Chinese takeaway order.

Speaker 3 12:24

Sweet and sour chicken balls yes uh egg fried rice um, and I'm into a rice person crispy, crispy beef yes spring rolls no no um, do you like sesame prawn toast?

Speaker 2 12:41

no damn, I started well and it's just gone downhill. What do you get? You're on the right track.

Speaker 3 12:48

Sweet and sour chicken balls singapore chow mein boring.

Speaker 2 12:53

Now they're plain chips oh okay, that's not, yeah okay and honey, chili prawns honey water back a little bit.

Speaker 3 13:03

Honey, chilli prawns.

Speaker 2 13:05

I've not had them you know that's like sweet chilli.

Speaker 1 13:09

Yeah, everyone listening is going to be really hungry now.

Speaker 3 13:13

Sorry guys.

Speaker 1 13:16

So next question A trolley is travelling down a track heading towards one person. You have the option to pull the lever and switch it to a different track where it would hit another person. Would you do it? But the catch is the person is heading towards currently is an Englishman, is English person, and on the other track that you would switch it to is a Scottish person.

Speaker 3 13:47

I'm gonna have to go for the Englishman you're gonna leave it.

Speaker 1 13:51

You had the chance to save them and you're just gonna let them die yeah yeah, but only on the basis that that was what fate was doing anyway. So she's not intervening right yes, exactly okay, okay, if you say so, to be fair. So while we're recording this it's tonight is the first game of the six nations um, so that's why it was in my mind why didn't you do france? Should have. I should have done france, should, I'm france, wales well, you would have killed them. You would have killed them anyway.

Speaker 3 14:23

I would have.

Speaker 1 14:26

I think we all agree on that one so next question would you rather £1 million up front or a chance at £10 million if you can beat a giraffe in a fight?

Speaker 3 14:41

well, £1 million up front, because I'm never going to win against a giraffe do I get? Tools, or Am I going in just fists?

Speaker 1 14:53

How would you prep for it? You can't say gun or missile, maybe a rounder's bat, rounder's bat. Yeah, you only get a rounder's bat.

Speaker 2 15:03

And a glove.

Speaker 3 15:05

I'd go for the William because I don't like hurting animals, for starters and two, I just wouldn't win anyway.

Speaker 1 15:11

Fair enough, good answer. Would you rather have robotic arms?

Speaker 3 15:22

or robotic legs. Robotic legs I don't like running as it is, so I feel like if I had robotic legs, I'd barely feel the pain yeah, and you could jump to to the shooters.

Speaker 1 15:35

There you go.

Speaker 3 15:36

Extend them.

Speaker 1 15:39

Right, so a little less weird now, I think. Would you rather negotiate with one head of procurement or 10 junior buyers?

Speaker 3 15:54

One head of procurement. It's less work.

Speaker 1 15:59

Yeah, finding that most people are going for that option. And then last question is what animal do you think would be best in procurement, and why?

Speaker 3 16:10

Best, I think, maybe dolphin or something or a kitten, because they're just too cute and you just want to agree with them.

Speaker 2 16:20

Really yeah, you've not met the private sector procurement folks have you. We're horrible. That's what the public?

Speaker 3 16:26

says they've had on.

Speaker 2 16:27

Yeah, what's the animal behind you?

Speaker 3 16:32

That is a sheep.

Speaker 2 16:34

Oh, okay, I wasn't sure if it was a pig or a sheep no, the the view is conceiver no, it's quite cute that?

Speaker 1 16:42

yeah, is it a? Um, it looks like a. I was gonna say piggy bank, but sheep, no, it's not so funny story.

Speaker 3 16:49

I don't know if you're gonna cut this out or not. It was actually my grandparent and I just realized I said there was no listener, sorry. So this was my grandparents. And when a few months before my nan was going to pass, sorry, I didn't mean to laugh that big, but the story is funny. I think it was this or this.

Speaker 3 17:06

Sorry, I'm holding a chicken now she's holding a giant cock in her right hand and a sheep in her left, just for the listeners knew you were gonna say that one of these were on my nan's shelf and she was going a bit doolally before she passed and she turned to my mom to say um is staring at me and my mom was like what, what's staring at you? She went there's a camera in the chicken's bum on about this, so she thought like someone was watching through this through the chickens so when I look at him I just laugh now do you ever get paranoid that there is a camera in the chicken's rear?

Speaker 3 17:46

well, no, but now you've said yeah maybe she was right the whole time she could be. She was quite smart actually well, listen, nice listen, lauren.

The Procurement Degree Revelation

Speaker 2 17:58

Uh, thank you for sharing that little insight and for putting up with luke's uh, weird and wonderful questions. They just they get a bit stranger every time and um, yeah, it's. I think that the main thing is just to kind of answer with what comes to your mind, as opposed to deepening it too much yeah um, but look, I'm really excited to have you here, to be fair, because luke did tell me that you had a procurement degree. He did mention it earlier as well, and two, two procurement degrees.

Speaker 3 18:28

So I've got an undergrad, an undergraduate degree and a master's so good, you did it twice I think I've just kind of just fallen into the industry now. So I thought, why not just go deeper?

Speaker 2 18:40

so hang on. Did you like? Let's say you finished like school or sixth form or whatever it is, and then you just went. I'm gonna go to uni, let's have a look at what's out there. And we went maths, history, english, maybe economics, maybe I don't know procurement psychology yeah, oh wait, procurement I didn't quite fall into it that way, but I did fall into procurement.

Speaker 3 19:05

In regards to when I left school, I was kind of sat down with my mom thinking, oh my god, everyone's going to university. I haven't got a clue what I want to do. So we kind of looked at some university courses online and seeing the business management was there and I thought, oh, quite broad, can kind of go into any not any industry, but it kind of opens a lot more doors than if I was going to a sort of niche.

Speaker 3 19:29

Um, yeah area so applied for business management, got in. But the course was kind of set out in regards to seven or eight different modules. So the modules were and I've gone by here, like I said earlier, because I couldn't remember so there was supply chain management, marketing, business skills, hr, accounting and economics okay so hated economics because I was rubbish at math.

Speaker 3 19:58

Hr wasn't for me because I'm not a people person. Um, economics didn't really enjoy that too much. Business skills wasn't too bad. Marketing again, I'm not a people person, so it wasn't for me. So it kind of landed me down with supply chain management, so didn't go too much into depth in year one with it, but it kind of touched upon like supply and demand logistics.

Speaker 3 20:26

And when you went into second year you had the option to either do business management within those modules as your full second year or you could delve in deeper to one of those individual modules. Which is where I kind of thought, oh, I didn't really enjoy any of the other modules, so I delved into supply chain management, my course type of change. It was logistics and supply chain management then, which was my course, which kind of delved into commercial procurement, logistics, research methods, strategic sourcing, retail supply chain. And after the second year we had the option to do what was called a sandwich year, which was you go into industry for a year which could have been private sector, public sector. Did you do that? I did that. So that's when I started in public sector and me and my friend managed to get the same job together so good that was really good.

Speaker 3 21:51

We really enjoyed it and we were lucky enough to be kept on during our third year, but part-time, so we job shared one position, so she would do like the first half of the week and then, because she's done more or less than all the work, I'd come in at the end of the week and I'd have nothing to do so they would just be this vicious cycle where beck would be doing all the work and I would just be coming in being like, oh well, she's done everything.

Speaker 2 22:19

And you got paid.

Speaker 3 22:21

And I got paid. Yes the third year. Then we'd be doing our job share while doing our dissertation and the last few of the modules. But this is where SIPs come into it then. So I think we only found out about sips in year two or three and the word was kind of thrown at us to say, oh yeah, you get um sips as part of this degree and everyone kind of just like looks around like, oh yeah, cool, what's that?

Speaker 2 22:48

so did you get? Do you get your full sips for doing the degree, or did you get like a level four or level five or we got the full sips.

Speaker 3 22:56

So because of the sandwich, yeah by the time we left and graduated, we would have got m sips wow, so are you lauren m sips.

Speaker 2 23:08

Yeah, oh, I love it, I love it how does that feel, do you realize?

Speaker 3 23:13

and I got sips so you?

Speaker 2 23:15

you got it without realising. And then Luke Tenge just struggling every day to try and string a sentence together for his essay.

Speaker 1 23:20

I'm grinding every day with my assignments, yeah.

Speaker 3 23:23

Yeah.

Speaker 1 23:25

Wow, so you said, then you did a Masters after that as well.

Speaker 3 23:31

Yeah. After Rem's sips yeah, so my Masters is in is in strategic procurement, which I don't think. I have to cut a bit of this out now because like this, this bit can be cut out, but I'll repeat it. So I don't think I learned as much in my masters because I think a lot of it was similar to the undergrad bit.

Speaker 2 24:00

So I'm gonna back you up a little bit there, because when you do level six sips, if you're doing like the exam routes or the assignment routes, that's all about like the strategic thinking and and the kind of top-down view.

Speaker 3 24:14

Yeah.

Speaker 2 24:15

But it sounds really weird. But the top-down view is always a bit more like wishy-washy. It's a bit more high level, like we don't want to go into the detail too much. So actually, in terms of like knowledge and skills, it's not really that, but it's to get you thinking like a director, so you can just kind of go oh yeah, there's global challenges or there's you know upcoming markets we can leverage and things like that.

Speaker 3 24:38

But I can't even remember what I did for my modules in my masters and I think I did it three years ago now. But it's just nice to have under your belt because people within the kind of procurement industry now start looking for these type of things to decipher the kind of people when they're interviewing well, I like it because it says you've always wanted to do procurement, even though you've said that wasn't necessarily true.

Speaker 2 25:04

It just it looks like you've kind of gone straight out of work, straight out of school and thought I'm going to be the best supply chain person in the world because that's my passion probably the worst in public sector, to do it as well, because I'm always running to Beck, who I did the sandwich year with, so we did the sandwich year together.

Speaker 3 25:22

I went to private for a year or two. She got a promotion in another public sector department, so then I followed her to that job and she's way better than the job than I am, and I've got a master's why?

Speaker 2 25:36

why do you think she's better?

Speaker 3 25:38

her brain is like a sponge, literally she, she could probably do my masters in a week, and no more than me it's interesting, mom.

Speaker 2 25:48

You're probably not. She's probably not better than as, or it's not as better as than you, as you think she is, sort of thing, because, oh no she's 100%.

Speaker 3 25:55

I would, I would bet my house on it. Sorry, ross, be homeless, but no, I would bet my house on it hmm, I don't know.

Speaker 1 26:05

I don't know about that, but we know having met beck as well, I, I don't know. She is very, she is very, uh, knowledgeable, like she knows the answer to everything. It's like oh yeah, how did you? Yeah, how did you know that?

Speaker 3 26:19

she's going to listen to this and her hair's just going to be gone yeah, big-headed beth, beth or beck becks, beck, becks, big-headed becks.

Speaker 2 26:28

Yeah, we don't want that. We need to put a pin in that and bring her back down to reality sorry beck yeah, maybe she hasn't got any other skills, maybe she's not a people person or she can't she is the nicest person you will ever meet, as well of course, of course well luke. To be honest, why didn't you get her on the?

Speaker 1 26:45

pod. Yeah, I was about to say that. Yeah, yeah, that was, that was yesterday. I was a bit too late. Too late notice, otherwise we would have cancelled Lauren.

Speaker 3 26:58

Yeah, who needs me?

Speaker 2 27:01

God, you're really unnatural at this, Luke. Okay, so the kind of qualifications you've gone into work and obviously like developing your career. Are you happy that you chose the university? I know you don't know anything else, but do you think you could have perhaps gone straight from school into like a career and then maybe done your SIPs a different way? Or do you think?

Social Value in Public Procurement

Speaker 3 27:27

that this gives you an advantage. I enjoyed the way I did it because, like I said prior, I didn't even realise I was getting the degree and I think I was learning more than just the procurement side of things. So, like I said, I was learning about logistics, which would have been could have been a kind of industry I delved into. And secondly, I think a lot of my colleagues have been doing SIPs alongside their full-time job.

Speaker 2 27:59

Yeah.

Speaker 3 27:59

Which I can see stresses some of them out, like some of them have got families having to do like assignments and revision after work on the weekends and I know you get some sort of like not time off or Depends on the company to be fair.

Speaker 3 28:15

Study leave. Yeah, like study leave sometimes, but I don't know. Like I was doing it in a kind of university environment, so I was learning in that environment anyway. So I think I would have rather have done it all at the beginning and then delved into the actual doing, because I was saying this to Beck the other week when we were kind of learning about procurement and whatnot in second year, I still didn't really understand what it was. So until I did that sandwich year, I was starting to piece bits together.

Speaker 3 28:47

I remember coming home because obviously I still lived with my parents at the time a good month or two into my sandwich year and my mother turned around to me and said do you actually know what you're doing? Like, do you know what your job is? And I was like no, I actually don't. And it's one of those like if someone asked you like oh, what is procurement? Like, what do you do? Sometimes it's hard to say so like when we get new starters in public sector, I kind of worded in the sense that like, oh, I just think of myself as like a personal shopper for people. Like they ask me what? Well, they tell me what they want and I try and get the best deal fair enough.

Speaker 2 29:25

Oh yeah, we always have a laugh about that, because one of the things around the frustration well, the frustration that I have in procurement is when people hear that you're in procurement, they go oh, so you buy things. And that really upsets me because I'm like we do so much more than just buying things, like, yeah, we don't go on Amazon.

Speaker 3 29:41

I think if you talk to someone who hasn't got a clue what it is. Sometimes it's good to start with the basics, like and I'll tell people that, like, especially if they like interview in for a role, so especially like apprentices who have never heard of the word procurement, like saying in that form, they can make up their own assumptions then. And then, once they've got the job and they delve in a bit deeper, they can see the cycle and how they slot in and, like you said, like it's just a lot more than buying. So they can see that from the cycle and the different roles and responsibilities that they'd have to get that contract in place.

Speaker 1 30:15

So we have a episode. One of our first episodes was what is procurement? So maybe it should be like required reading or required listening for anyone going for a job. You see where we're going.

Speaker 2 30:31

So do you do interviews? Then you kind of mentioned, okay, what's a good question that you like to ask in an interview?

Speaker 3 30:40

So we did a kind of informal interview a couple of months back because it was an EOI, so an expression of interest for someone internal to come into the role for nine to 12 months, while we try and do a permanent recruitment in the background. Um, I'm trying to think of the questions we ask them. Obviously, with public tech we can't stray too far from that. The cave is too much. But I don't think it's too much of a question we like to ask because again, like the interviews I've done, are people who just haven't got a clue what procurement even would be. Yeah, so like entry again dragging back into this.

Speaker 3 31:23

When we invented the interviews, we kind of just like not firm with them, but we just kind of set the scene like, look, this isn't a role you're going to pick up in six to nine months, so it's going to be a lot of like self-development, self-learning, like a lot on the job, training, um. But I think I'd rather be a bit more up front with them than not doolally but saying, oh yeah, like you're gonna smash this role when you come into it, like you're gonna know all the regulations, all the um roles and responsibilities within the first month. I think it's just setting the scene for them so what?

Speaker 2 32:00

let me flip it a little bit. What's what's a good, a good response that you see from candidates, obviously like any generic question. But like what? What do you? What makes you think, yeah, you're a good, a good apprentice or a good?

Speaker 3 32:10

someone who's proactive, especially in public sector where there can be so much red tape, so much process, like at the minute in our roles. We're nearly like 45% understaffed in just our department in digital 45%.

Speaker 2 32:31

Yeah, how are you getting your day job done, or are you doing like four day jobs?

Speaker 3 32:37

but this is the issue. So when we're interviewing people, we want someone proactive. So, like I said, like we're not expecting everyone to know the ins and outs from day dot, but kind of, do some initiative, do some research on the internet or um on the guidance that's out there, and my, my manager would always say like she's more than happy to like help me with any issues. But lately she's been saying don't come to me with a problem, come to me with the problem, your two scenarios that you think would be best suited to address that. So yeah, definitely being proactive in this role is would get you very far.

Speaker 2 33:15

Fair enough, you taking notes there, luke.

Speaker 1 33:18

Yeah, just committing that to memory.

Speaker 2 33:23

What about turning up late to interviews? Is that a good thing?

Speaker 3 33:28

Aww, did Luke turn up late? Is that what you're saying?

Speaker 2 33:30

He just turned up late to every meeting that we ever have. That's all.

Speaker 1 33:34

No, no, that's not true. That's not true. I turn up on time, but sometimes underprepared. I will, uh, I will give you that sometimes I need to work on my, my pre-meeting preparation sometimes yeah, uh, okay, right, so you did.

Speaker 2 33:52

You mentioned as well dissertation. Do you remember what your dissertation was? Do you remember what your dissertation was?

Speaker 3 33:58

Which one?

Speaker 2 34:02

Actually no, I think they were both on social value Really.

Speaker 3 34:04

Yeah, do you do that in your role. Yeah, so again sorry. Beck. Me and Beck are social value leads in our organisation.

Speaker 2 34:14

So how does that tie into the procurement aspects of it?

Speaker 3 34:23

that tie into the procurement aspects of it. So when we're doing our evaluations in line with the cciaf I don't know if that ties in my organization, but you can cut that out if not but in line with the cciaf, don't quote me on what it means.

Speaker 2 34:33

Continuous I don't know what continuous improvement something, something.

Speaker 3 34:39

Um, basically you need a social value lead to evaluate alongside the normal evaluators of the requirement. So you're kind of like the social value lead and kind of guide not guide, that's definitely the wrong word. So say now, like the technical evaluators, they've obviously got all the knowledge about the actual requirement. They're not going to have too much involvement or understanding of the social value aspect of it and how that helps push the contract after it's been awarded. So that social value lead is there to kind of I'd like the word guide, because that's not a good word to use in an evaluation, especially in public sector but makes them more aware of what's important when it comes to social value yeah, do you do the scoring, or do you other people do the scoring and you tell them what they can and can't consider?

Speaker 3 35:40

so everyone, even the technical evaluators, alongside the social value lead would evaluate and score. But that social value lead is there to kind of just say, oh well, you haven't considered this and this. Because obviously sometimes if you're asking a certain question and you've listed everything you want them to address and you know sometimes like the technical people will be like, oh well, I want the cheapest deal, I want this, I want that, and it's just kind of bring them back to earth, basically.

Speaker 2 36:10

I mean, that's the idea of what we do, isn't it? It's trying to trying to get like a balanced scorecard approach where you just want people to be. Not, it's hard to say impartial is the word we aim for, but I think someone technical will always favor technical responses, that kind of hit their little buzz. And you know, a procurement person will look at the pricing that's probably the first starting point and the social value lead will look at the social value stuff and it's just about tying all that together. So so I can appreciate that what's um.

Speaker 2 36:36

So what's social value in terms of like percentages? Is it like 10% of your score? Is that like a minimum thing in public sector?

Speaker 3 36:42

yeah, 10% is the minimum, um, but like you'd be surprised how often it increases again, like depending on what the requirement is and how important you think you would be past contract award.

Speaker 2 36:56

I always wonder if it'll get to the stage where, like, it's equal weighting with price and and the actual solution um, I don't think it ever gets to that point?

Speaker 1 37:06

potentially, but I can't see that happening what type of things to get asked is it? Is it kind of about environmental sustainability only or a bit of social in?

Speaker 3 37:19

digital. In digital now, um, they've kind of mandated for um us to use, um the award criteria of 2.2, um, which is employment. So I think, because digital is such a fast pace, yeah environment. I think it's kind of a lot of job shortages at the minute because we can't keep up with the demand. So we kind of focus on that in the digital space at the minute getting more people in like upskilling, especially in like more deprived areas.

Speaker 2 37:49

There's a lot of deprivation Surprisingly like the actual amount of people who, where kids don't have access to laptops at home or things that we take for granted. Exactly have access to laptops at home or things that we take for granted exactly, and actually, if you can bring them out of their kind of situation or give them the skills that they need, they'll probably, you know, be more than willing to invest the time and then hopefully, enter the workplace.

Speaker 3 38:08

So it's a very positive, positive impact on the overall contract if you can get it working 100% and that's where, like, your KPIs kick in then as well, like, making sure you've got KPIs tailored to your social value asks.

Speaker 2 38:24

How do you feel about AI?

Speaker 3 38:29

It's scary. It is really scary. In regards to the one, I don't fully understand it and how it works nobody does and two. It always reminds me of that meme where it says I'm gonna lose my job, like it's just gonna. Robots are gonna take over the world.

Speaker 2 38:48

I'm not gonna be needed anymore I think it's uh, it's interesting because, like we had an ai guy on and he he was saying it's all about like complimenting people in their roles and helping enhance their productivity. But then I also see the other side of it, where, if you are process driven, where you said, for example, as a buyer, there's a lot of things were like routine or like you were doing quite often AI is perfect for automating those routine things.

Speaker 2 39:15

Yeah, and then you start to go well if they can automate 50% of my job. And then you start to go well, if they can automate 50% of my job, why would they pay me to come in five days a week?

Speaker 3 39:23

I think it would compliment the admin side of this role a lot, especially when it comes to e-tendering tools. But the actual doing and putting that kind of strategic hat on, I don't think it'd ever take over that element because people want to talk to another person.

Speaker 1 39:49

Yeah, what if you've got two, two ais talking to each other? I don't know. I just fight it out.

Speaker 3 39:54

We're just screwed at that point aren't know we might just fight it out.

Speaker 2 40:00

We're just screwed at that point, aren't we? If we've just?

Speaker 3 40:02

got AI running everything.

Speaker 2 40:03

But I don't think we'll get to that. I think it's just about onboarding it and stuff, but definitely being careful with tender responses where people have slipped in AI as a kind of I guess way of reducing the cost and improving their solution, and then you think, what's that AI doing with all our information?

Speaker 3 40:22

yeah, so to kind of not to mitigate it but to make ourselves aware of suppliers are using it. We actually ask the question now during the qualification stage to say, oh um, have you used ai in your bid? If so, we like we're not saying they can't use it but if they're going to, use it.

Speaker 3 40:37

If they're going to use ai to develop their own technical answers or responses to our questions, they just need to be aware of what ai has churned out and if they can actually meet what they've said they can do now. There's no point then saying, oh yeah, um, we can deliver a million laptops and actually they haven't even got stock of a million laptops, because you'd be surprised if they don't actually read what ai turns out half the time oh yeah, oh yeah.

Speaker 1 41:04

I uh, I knew someone when, when, um, he was in uni and I promise this isn't one of those fake stories that's actually about me, but he was, uh, he, so he was, he was in uni and he had a day until his admission of this essay he needed to do so. He just put the question into AI and then copied and pasted the answer into a document and sent it off, but he forgot to take out the part at the start that said sure, I can help you with that. So immediately he just got a fail on that assignment.

Speaker 2 41:40

That's incredible. That guy doesn't deserve a job. I mean, like, that's just stupidity, like what's he bringing to the table? I really like the idea of a procurement degree. I'm not going to go back and do one, but I'm just. I'm just like. It's really like made me happy. Is that sad?

Speaker 2 41:59

it's made me happy that they exist I feel like it's way easier than doing about three, four modules of seps but the the tough part, from from my perspective, would be convincing a how old do you when you go to uni? 18, 17, 18 yeah, 18, 19 yeah, convincing an 18, 19 year old that procurement is, you know, a career, that it is a thing, because all they've known up until that point is like, like you said, business is the kind of buzzword, isn't it?

Speaker 3 42:29

it's business, maybe economics, yeah, maybe accountancy, but procurement, which is why I think that business management degree is a really good start point to touch base and like dip your toe in all the different types of areas you could potentially get into. Like supply chain was definitely the most interesting out of all of them for me.

Speaker 2 42:52

I actually did a degree in economics. So when you said it was boring maths, I was like oh yeah. Oh, I hated it was boring maths, I was like, oh yeah, oh, I hated it, oh I I, yeah it's. It's weird because when you dive deeper into it you can separate, like, like you said, with all the modules, you can kind of move away from the the math side of things, which is kind of what I did.

Speaker 3 43:09

Um, I preferred, I preferred the economics of like people, because the economic side of it relates to like supply and demand as well, doesn't it?

Procurement Career Wisdom

Speaker 1 43:17

yeah, supply and demand is huge, uh, in in economics, yeah, but maybe that's what we can do with the podcast, is we can glamorize procurement enough that 18 year olds want to uh, it's like almost. It's almost like being a footballer. Maybe we need to live stream some negotiations or you know, contract redlining on a on a live stream and, uh, jazz it up a little bit.

Speaker 1 43:43

Watch that, to be honest don't worry about confidentiality I think negotiations could be a good thing to uh, to live stream, but obviously you'd have you'd have to make everyone that watched signed an nda, which could be a bit, could be a bit difficult, yeah, a bit problematic.

Speaker 3 43:59

You a bit difficult, yeah, a bit problematic you'd be giving away your secret sign, though, as well what's, what's your uh go-to negotiation tactic I?

Speaker 2 44:08

went negotiated once no bullshit. I'm dead, and it was last year no, yeah, okay, that might be like a formal negotiation, but you are always negotiating, whether it's with your boss for a pay rise, whether it's with you, know your partner about dinner like anything, negotiations everywhere oh, I'm gonna give them silent treatment, maybe as well to be fair.

Speaker 1 44:34

That works yeah, when you're sat in a room, if you just say nothing, then people feel like they need to talk, don't they?

Speaker 2 44:40

they need to concede, and yeah dig themselves a hole genuinely in my, in my previous role, there was this guy who was a customer. So I was, I was customer facing and whenever he had an issue he would, he would call up and I'd dread it. I'd absolutely dread it. He'd know the number and he'd call me and he'd be like so what's the problem?

Speaker 2 45:01

you and I'm not even like it. It felt like 10, 15 minutes of silence and it would be all the time. So it'd be like when can you get me that report? Luke, and even doing that for five seconds now is giving me like a flashback of absolute horror, and every single time now, looking back at it, I can go. I probably gave him way too much and I needed to in terms of information, like he'll say when can you get the report? And I'll probably go. Friday, does that sound good, knowing this is monday and he'd still be silent, so I'd go. Okay, maybe thursday. How about tomorrow? I'm so uncomfortable, I just wanted to get out of it and it was a horrible tactic, honestly.

Speaker 3 45:44

There you go, and that's my tactic the silent treatment.

Speaker 2 45:47

Love it, absolutely love it. Well, I think, look, this has been a really interesting sesh. Thank you for bearing with and putting up, okay, any words of wisdom for our listeners no, no, no no just say something wrong or say something stupid.

Speaker 1 46:07

So no, I'm gonna I'm gonna influence my silent treatment here maybe your, uh, your, your words of wisdom could be make sure there's no hidden cameras in any chickens arses definitely that's a good.

Speaker 3 46:23

That's a good part in word to go on. You might need subtitles for this. I don't know if everyone's going to understand my valley's accent oh, we could do the.

Speaker 2 46:33

Uh, you get like a little thing that tries to return into a script and then see what that churns out, but that always looks bad on us because of the stuff that comes out of our mouth anyway, so we tend not to do that. You know transcripts, but no, look, thank you, you've been a great guest. Hopefully, uh, the listeners have learned something. Now they're all wearing to uh sign up for a procurement degree usw. And I think if, uh, yeah, if they've got any questions, can they, can we reach out to you and ask you those questions in a future?

Speaker 3 47:02

if I can answer them, yes. If not, you're blocked it's not, then?

Speaker 2 47:06

silent treatment. Fair enough, so so, basically, we may speak again or we may never ever speak again yeah, we say we stay back in our job.

Speaker 3 47:15

If it's a monday question, don't ask it. If it's a friday question, which is an easy question, you're allowed to ask it like that. That's the word of wisdom in it that's a word.

Speaker 2 47:25

There you go, wise. Yeah, brilliant, all right well thank you very much you.