137 - Think Like a Marketer: Business Building Strategies for Entrepreneurs

Most people think about marketing as something you do when you're launching a product or having a sale. That's a huge mistake. 

In this episode, my good friend and colleague, Brenda Meller, LinkedIn Marketing Coach, joined me to discuss what it means to think like a marketer and how it can transform your business. 

Brenda also shared practical strategies for consultants and solopreneurs, the importance of consistent marketing, and how to leverage LinkedIn effectively.

Top Takeaways

🔹What thinking like a marketer actually means
🔹Using your LinkedIn profile as a marketing tool
🔹Content posting strategies and the 20/80 rule of selling
🔹The role of video in building trust and engagement
🔹How to choose the right coach and membership program for you

CHAPTERS

00:00 Introduction to Brenda Meller and her expertise
02:15 What does it mean to think like a marketer?
04:19 The importance of viewing your business through a marketing lens
05:41 Optimizing your LinkedIn profile for marketing success
07:40 Understanding the LinkedIn algorithm and content strategy
09:06 The modified Pareto rule for LinkedIn posts
10:28 Educating your audience with content, not just selling
13:29 The role of video in LinkedIn marketing and building trust
16:41 Overcoming discomfort with video and building confidence
18:58 Choosing the right coaching programs and community signals
25:35 Final thoughts on investing in your marketing education

🔷If you're ready to stop thinking about video and start doing it, the next session of my Smarter, Faster, Fun Video Bootcamp starts in July.  

OR visit SFFVideoBootcamp.com

Join me in The Lab on Substack, my space to test, tweak, and share smart ideas worth chasing, especially around video, content strategy, and showing up online without burning out (or wasting your weekends) Click Here

📌 When you’re ready to make creating engaging social media videos a priority, I offer 1:1 coaching and done-with-you video services. 😉 Click Here

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➡️ Need more? Check out the 300+ videos on my YouTube channel Click here for my YouTube channel 

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For additional insights, connect with Annette Richmond and Black Dog Marketing Strategies on social media.
Substack: https://substack.com/@annetterichmond
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/annetterichmond/
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@blackdogmarketingstrate...

Transcript

00:00:02 [Speaker 1]
Hi.
00:00:02 [Speaker 1]
I'm Annette Richmond.
00:00:03 [Speaker 1]
Thanks so much for joining me today, and I am so excited to have my good friend and colleague and coach, Brenda Miller, joining me today.
00:00:12 [Speaker 1]
So, Brenda, I'm gonna pass it over to you.
00:00:15 [Speaker 1]
Please tell us a little bit about who you are and what you do for anyone who does not know you.

00:00:20 [Speaker 2]
Well, thank you so much, Annette.
00:00:22 [Speaker 2]
It's always a delight to have the chance to chat with you.
00:00:25 [Speaker 2]
I am a LinkedIn marketing coach.
00:00:27 [Speaker 2]
I'm trying out a new expression here.
00:00:30 [Speaker 2]
And what I help people do mainly is to enjoy a bigger slice of the LinkedIn pie.

00:00:35 [Speaker 2]
But I also do help people with marketing as well.
00:00:39 [Speaker 2]
I come from a corporate marketing background.
00:00:41 [Speaker 2]
I've always loved marketing and different approaches and teaching people, but I mainly work with individuals who are self employed.
00:00:47 [Speaker 2]
I work with corporate teams and I work with executives as well and focusing their efforts on getting better results in less time on LinkedIn, but also in helping those that are self employed that maybe don't have a deep marketing knowledge or background to incorporate simple marketing ticks techniques into their business so that they can get better results.
00:01:11 [Speaker 2]
Meaning, more leads, more potential customers, more conversations that can lead to business as well.

00:01:17 [Speaker 2]
So I think that's it in a nutshell.

00:01:20 [Speaker 1]
No.
00:01:20 [Speaker 1]
That's great.
00:01:21 [Speaker 1]
Thanks so much.
00:01:21 [Speaker 1]
And, you know, I I asked you to come on my podcast today because I do wanna talk about marketing.
00:01:27 [Speaker 1]
And, you know, as I mentioned, I have hired you as a marketing coach.

00:01:31 [Speaker 1]
I am part of your marketing, membership, Marketing with Mellor.
00:01:35 [Speaker 1]
And I have said to you and to others that the best thing about working with you is that you have taught me to think like a marketer.
00:01:43 [Speaker 1]
And so if I'm if I'm just doing things, it has me thinking about it in a different light now because you could explain that better than I can.
00:01:53 [Speaker 1]
Can you tell people a little bit about what that means to think like a marketer?

00:01:57 [Speaker 2]
Yes.
00:01:58 [Speaker 2]
Absolutely.
00:01:58 [Speaker 2]
And, actually and that you'll you'll recall, we did a master class inside marketing with Mueller, which was called how to think like a marketer.
00:02:05 [Speaker 2]
And it was it was based on your idea.
00:02:07 [Speaker 2]
You we were having a conversation.

00:02:09 [Speaker 2]
You're like, how do you do that?
00:02:10 [Speaker 2]
How do you how do you think like a can you teach me how to think like a marketer?
00:02:14 [Speaker 2]
And I said, that's actually a great master class that I can put together.
00:02:17 [Speaker 2]
So at a at a high level, to think like a marketer, what that means is just to change the, the way that you approach your own business and looking at other people's businesses as well.
00:02:28 [Speaker 2]
Because it's not always about just applying these strategies to ourselves.

00:02:30 [Speaker 2]
It's just thinking like a marketer all the time.
00:02:33 [Speaker 2]
And, you know, me, Annette, I'm a big analogy person.
00:02:35 [Speaker 2]
So I like to think about applying analogies to different ways.
00:02:38 [Speaker 2]
And I want to use an analogy of eating healthier.
00:02:42 [Speaker 2]
So if you wanted to be, you know, either more fit, lose weight or just feel better and be healthier all the time and you start to apply this healthy way of looking at things when you go to the grocery store, when you are dining with a friend, when you are at the fruit market or one of the big box stores or even at the gas station.

00:03:01 [Speaker 2]
You start to think how to eat healthier, and you start to think about, you know, reading the labels and looking at the calories and the protein levels and things like that.
00:03:10 [Speaker 2]
And, you know, I have some family members I'm trying to help with this exercise.
00:03:12 [Speaker 2]
And I say, when we go to the restaurant, it's not like you can't not eat everything.
00:03:17 [Speaker 2]
Mhmm.
00:03:17 [Speaker 2]
But eat something that's just a little bit healthier.

00:03:19 [Speaker 2]
You know, like what's the healthiest thing on the menu?
00:03:22 [Speaker 2]
So if you can think about eating healthy and you apply that to every area of your life, you will become healthier.
00:03:28 [Speaker 2]
And it's the same way when it comes to thinking like a marketer.
00:03:32 [Speaker 2]
I think, generally, a lot of people feel like marketing is something that it comes, you know, somewhat natural because we are the recipients of of this marketing.
00:03:41 [Speaker 2]
Right?

00:03:41 [Speaker 2]
Through commercials and digital ads and social media in different places, we are the recipients of marketing.
00:03:48 [Speaker 2]
And we always know, Annette, don't we, what what's good marketing?
00:03:52 [Speaker 2]
Because we we're like, oh, that was clever.
00:03:53 [Speaker 2]
There's something memorable about the message.
00:03:55 [Speaker 2]
It resonated with me versus we know when something is not good marketing.

00:04:00 [Speaker 2]
It either doesn't land well.
00:04:01 [Speaker 2]
Maybe we are not the intended audience.
00:04:03 [Speaker 2]
So there was something that was a disconnect in the message in there.
00:04:06 [Speaker 2]
So, you know, this whole approach to thinking like a marketer is something that I I like to teach people to do for their own business, looking for these different pockets of opportunities, but also as you are looking at other people's businesses as well.

00:04:21 [Speaker 1]
Yeah.
00:04:22 [Speaker 1]
I I I love the analogy, and you are the best person when it comes to analogies that that I know.
00:04:29 [Speaker 1]
And, you know, I I think of it because most people think about marketing as a, kind of a one time thing.
00:04:36 [Speaker 1]
Like, oh, I have a book coming out, or, oh, I have a course or a service I'm trying to promote.
00:04:41 [Speaker 1]
And they think about it in that sense, and they don't think about marketing sort of themselves and their business

00:04:48 [Speaker 2]
Mhmm.

00:04:49 [Speaker 1]
Kind of all the time and and looking for ways, to do that.
00:04:54 [Speaker 1]
So what would you say and I know that, a lot of your clients work with you because especially for LinkedIn, although you are also on other platforms.
00:05:04 [Speaker 1]
But can you give us a couple of things, two or three ideas that people can use specifically on LinkedIn

00:05:11 [Speaker 2]
Mhmm.

00:05:11 [Speaker 1]
If they're, you know, someone like me, a solopreneur, an entrepreneur, consultant, somebody who's doesn't have a big team behind them, especially.

00:05:20 [Speaker 2]
Yeah, if it's just you.
00:05:21 [Speaker 2]
So I always start with the profile, because your profile is kind of the, that landing page, if you will, that you wanna drive people back to that people will often go to because you posted or commented or direct message or, like, what what is an ad up to these days?
00:05:36 [Speaker 2]
So they'll click to go back to your profile, and now you've essentially got this landing page for yourself and for your business.
00:05:42 [Speaker 2]
And I always, coach my clients in numbers.
00:05:44 [Speaker 2]
I I say think about what's your one main focus for your business right now.

00:05:48 [Speaker 2]
Now I know I'm gonna use you as an example here, Annette, because you just finished off a video boot camp.
00:05:53 [Speaker 2]
Uh-huh.
00:05:53 [Speaker 2]
And I know that you've done these very techniques.
00:05:55 [Speaker 2]
So you had the video boot camp was the focal point.
00:05:58 [Speaker 2]
So you use that as a message in your your header at the top of the page.

00:06:03 [Speaker 2]
Mhmm.
00:06:03 [Speaker 2]
As you scroll down your profile I can't remember if you had it in your your headline or your feature section, but I know that you had it sprinkled throughout your profile as well.
00:06:11 [Speaker 2]
So if somebody were to land on your profile, they they understand what's that one thing that you're promoting right now.

00:06:17 [Speaker 1]
So it's

00:06:17 [Speaker 2]
very crystal clear.
00:06:18 [Speaker 2]
And there might be points in the year, Annette, that you don't have a single, you know, event or promotion or product or service, but then we can move into more of an evergreen focus.
00:06:27 [Speaker 2]
So I do different program launches throughout the year, and I'm gonna give an example of this.
00:06:30 [Speaker 2]
And when I'm in between launches, I have a header image library that I've created on Canva, and I'll move one of those evergreen messages into my header.
00:06:38 [Speaker 2]
So, one of my evergreen messages will say something about, your header.

00:06:44 [Speaker 2]
This isn't just a a graphic.
00:06:46 [Speaker 2]
It's a place to promote your business.
00:06:48 [Speaker 2]
So I'm actually using it's like a meta thing.
00:06:50 [Speaker 2]
Right?
00:06:50 [Speaker 2]
I'm promoting LinkedIn knowledge within the header itself.

00:06:53 [Speaker 2]
Other times, I'll promote a checklist or maybe there's a landing page or something else in my business.
00:06:59 [Speaker 2]
So from a marketer's perspective, how you can use LinkedIn more effectively is to promote that one thing throughout your profile that is the area of focus for for your business.
00:07:11 [Speaker 2]
So that's point number one.
00:07:12 [Speaker 2]
You said, do you want me to give you two ideas, or how many should we go through?

00:07:15 [Speaker 1]
Yeah.
00:07:15 [Speaker 1]
Whatever you feel comfortable with, but because I know your your knowledge is vast, and you're generous with it.
00:07:20 [Speaker 1]
So I don't want you to share too much because, you know

00:07:22 [Speaker 2]
Yeah.

00:07:23 [Speaker 1]
Let me give you one more like I do.
00:07:25 [Speaker 1]
Yeah.
00:07:25 [Speaker 1]
Right?
00:07:25 [Speaker 1]
Let me give

00:07:26 [Speaker 2]
you one more, which is on the subject of posting on LinkedIn.
00:07:30 [Speaker 2]
And, you know, there's different stats and philosophies as it comes to how to post on LinkedIn.
00:07:34 [Speaker 2]
And, of course, there's the LinkedIn algorithm, you know, the rules of the game, if you will.
00:07:38 [Speaker 2]
And those those rules have changed over the years.
00:07:40 [Speaker 2]
And the thing is with the LinkedIn algorithm, LinkedIn's always gonna change it.

00:07:43 [Speaker 2]
They're always gonna change the rules of the algorithm.
00:07:45 [Speaker 2]
We're all we're gonna all figure out, like, how do we get more reach in the home page?
00:07:49 [Speaker 2]
And then they're all gonna go, oh, they figured it out.
00:07:51 [Speaker 2]
So now we gotta try something different.
00:07:53 [Speaker 2]
It's almost like Google.

00:07:55 [Speaker 2]
They're always changing the rules on SEO so that we can't, you know, essentially get ourselves in the first page position by using things that are, you know, just quick hit fixes and things like that.
00:08:08 [Speaker 2]
They really wanna have genuine content come up in the first page.
00:08:10 [Speaker 2]
So when it comes to the algorithm, I'm aware of what the rules are, but I always counsel my clients in numbers to to think as if your ideal target audience, one person is reading your post.
00:08:23 [Speaker 2]
K?
00:08:24 [Speaker 2]
And when it comes to posting, you should be posting at least once a week.

00:08:28 [Speaker 2]
Mhmm.
00:08:28 [Speaker 2]
Even better would be a few times a week.
00:08:30 [Speaker 2]
And I used to say no more than once every business day.
00:08:33 [Speaker 2]
Day.
00:08:33 [Speaker 2]
You can certainly continue to do that post once every business day.

00:08:36 [Speaker 2]
But I'm seeing a lot of data points out there nowadays that are saying two to three times a week would probably be good for the average person.
00:08:42 [Speaker 2]
But when you're doing posts, don't just all don't always sell in your post.
00:08:47 [Speaker 2]
So you're probably familiar with the Pareto rule that 80% of your results come from 20% of your actions.
00:08:54 [Speaker 2]
I've created a modified version of this.
00:08:55 [Speaker 2]
I'm gonna call it the Miller rule.

00:08:56 [Speaker 2]
I don't know because there's not one out for you.
00:08:58 [Speaker 2]
I'm gonna call it the Miller rule of LinkedIn posting, which is twenty eighty.
00:09:02 [Speaker 2]
20% of the time, you should be selling or promoting your business.
00:09:07 [Speaker 2]
80% of the time, you shouldn't be selling, but instead, you should be informing, educating, inspiring, or maybe entertaining, so non salesy.
00:09:18 [Speaker 2]
And all of these posts are directed towards that ideal target audience.

00:09:23 [Speaker 2]
But when you think about it, Annette, if I was selling in every post every time, sign up for this master class, join marketing with Miller today, book me for team training.
00:09:32 [Speaker 2]
Eventually, you're gonna tune me out because there's no value unless you're ready to

00:09:36 [Speaker 1]
Yeah.

00:09:38 [Speaker 2]
Right?
00:09:38 [Speaker 2]
Instead, you know, if I I today, I I did a post, which was publishing an article on LinkedIn.
00:09:43 [Speaker 2]
I had heard from a fellow LinkedIn coach that if you don't have any articles published in, like, the last eighteen months, LinkedIn hides your articles tab.
00:09:51 [Speaker 2]
Now I've moved on to newsletters for various reasons, but an article in a newsletter is essentially the same from a content perspective.
00:09:57 [Speaker 2]
It's a blog that sits inside LinkedIn.

00:09:59 [Speaker 2]
Yeah.
00:09:59 [Speaker 2]
So I posted an article today, and I featured, an episode of my podcast and some of the q and a that went inside there.
00:10:06 [Speaker 2]
But I use the post to educate people about articles on LinkedIn and to say, hey.
00:10:12 [Speaker 2]
I've heard this thing.
00:10:12 [Speaker 2]
I'm gonna try to figure out who it was because I wanna give them credit.

00:10:15 [Speaker 2]
But I said, I heard that if you haven't published an article in the past eighteen months, your articles tab disappears.
00:10:21 [Speaker 2]
Now that means all of my past articles that I've done on LinkedIn are basically hidden.
00:10:25 [Speaker 2]
And that's a shame because there's a lot of great content that I published over the years.
00:10:28 [Speaker 2]
So I'm using this to educate people.
00:10:31 [Speaker 2]
Nowhere in here am I selling anything.

00:10:33 [Speaker 1]
Yeah.

00:10:33 [Speaker 2]
And, you know, that's just an example of how you can you can still educate your your community and keep them attuned to what I mean, that's my goal.
00:10:42 [Speaker 2]
I I want you to see my posts and to read them.
00:10:45 [Speaker 2]
And if you don't see them because of that algorithm, right, I want you to go guess I haven't seen anything from Brenda Miller in a while.
00:10:50 [Speaker 2]
I'm going to look her up because I know she's always posting really good content.
00:10:54 [Speaker 2]
And then you seek you out, seek me out and you find me on there.

00:10:56 [Speaker 2]
So I said, those would be the two tips, you know, focusing on marketing your products and services through your LinkedIn profile, focusing in on that header graphic, and then the second would be, you know, using that twenty eighty blend of content.

00:11:09 [Speaker 1]
Okay.
00:11:10 [Speaker 1]
I think that might have been Jillian.
00:11:12 [Speaker 1]
I know Jillian did post about that recently, the fact that she was looking for some things.
00:11:17 [Speaker 1]
But it might have been somebody else because, obviously, those things kinda start swarming around.

00:11:21 [Speaker 2]
Look back because if it was her, I think I commented on the person's post, and I said, I need to do this.
00:11:26 [Speaker 2]
Thank you.
00:11:27 [Speaker 2]
You might be right.
00:11:27 [Speaker 2]
I'm like, I know it was someone in my world Yeah.
00:11:30 [Speaker 2]
Who did it.

00:11:30 [Speaker 2]
And I just I don't know about you.
00:11:32 [Speaker 2]
And at the older I get, the memory the the short term memory has a really good caching system.
00:11:37 [Speaker 2]
It pushes out recent information.
00:11:39 [Speaker 2]
I remember things from when I was little.
00:11:41 [Speaker 2]
I don't know why.

00:11:41 [Speaker 2]
But, like, the recent stuff, sometimes it doesn't retain.
00:11:44 [Speaker 2]
So it might be, Jillian, and I'm gonna look back and see if I can find that reference.

00:11:47 [Speaker 1]
You know, it it's so funny because I say that all the time, and that's why I write I write ideas down on Post it notes.
00:11:52 [Speaker 1]
If I have an idea in the shower, I run out, and I sometimes run-in my office with the towel on and just write it on my whiteboard because I I forget all about it.
00:12:00 [Speaker 1]
I get a great idea, and then if I don't write it down, it's gone.
00:12:04 [Speaker 1]
And, you know, I wanna just ask you about, about video.
00:12:08 [Speaker 1]
So, now I know everybody's complaints like the reach is down on LinkedIn, the reach is down on link well, people are complaining about the reach is down on TikTok.

00:12:17 [Speaker 1]
Yeah.
00:12:17 [Speaker 1]
People are complaining on Substack, reach is down there.
00:12:20 [Speaker 1]
And I guess a lot of these sites, they go, you know, through phases, let's say.
00:12:26 [Speaker 1]
So I heard, a coach, a LinkedIn coach, who I respect and was talking about the different formats of, content that get engagement on LinkedIn.
00:12:38 [Speaker 1]
Mhmm.

00:12:39 [Speaker 1]
And and video is not the darling that it was, like, like, maybe a year ago or something like that when LinkedIn was really leaning into it.
00:12:47 [Speaker 1]
They brought in the video tab.
00:12:49 [Speaker 1]
And their their comment was, well, you know, if you, if you're not comfortable doing video, then you just shouldn't do it because, you know and and then they followed it up by saying, but it is good to build trust.
00:13:05 [Speaker 1]
Yeah.
00:13:06 [Speaker 1]
So because you're kind of, you know, LinkedIn and marketing, and I know you're com I mean, you're comfortable on camera.

00:13:11 [Speaker 1]
But Yeah.
00:13:12 [Speaker 1]
What do you what do you think about that whole thing?
00:13:15 [Speaker 1]
Because I, you know, I've heard, a couple people say that recently.

00:13:18 [Speaker 2]
Yeah.
00:13:18 [Speaker 2]
So so first of all, I wasn't always comfortable on camera.
00:13:22 [Speaker 2]
And and I just went through your video boot camp, and we were talking to some others in the group, you know, about getting them comfortable.
00:13:27 [Speaker 2]
And, you know, the whole done is better than perfect concept.
00:13:30 [Speaker 2]
You gotta just go out there.

00:13:32 [Speaker 2]
You gotta make your mistakes and go messy, and then correct and learn and and do those things along the way.
00:13:38 [Speaker 2]
But I guess in terms of, like, video on LinkedIn, I'm gonna I'm gonna use another analogy here.
00:13:42 [Speaker 2]
Okay.

00:13:43 [Speaker 1]
I

00:13:43 [Speaker 2]
live in Michigan and not too far away from us is Cedar Point, the amusement theme park.
00:13:48 [Speaker 2]
And growing up, I always remember, like, every summer, there's a new, you know, roller coaster or thrill ride or something at Cedar Point.
00:13:54 [Speaker 2]
And when they opened that ride, that was, like, the the focus their marketing focus for the year, the demon drop and the speed dragon, whatever their names are.
00:14:03 [Speaker 2]
And they would give all their time and attention to the new ride because they were trying to bring people back to the theme park and, you know, get on the new ride and try to send that was, like, the attraction.
00:14:12 [Speaker 2]
Right?

00:14:12 [Speaker 2]
And it's I I've noticed it's the same way on LinkedIn.
00:14:15 [Speaker 2]
They you know, and and even the other platforms as well.
00:14:17 [Speaker 2]
When they roll out a new feature, they they want people to use it.
00:14:20 [Speaker 2]
So what they do is they reward us with reach.
00:14:23 [Speaker 2]
So, it was probably, I don't know, year or two ago, LinkedIn rolled it out.

00:14:28 [Speaker 2]
It was it was kinda quietly.
00:14:29 [Speaker 2]
They do things a lot quietly.
00:14:30 [Speaker 2]
They don't really announce it with a big splash.
00:14:32 [Speaker 2]
But if you go on the LinkedIn mobile app, there's now a video tab at the bottom.
00:14:36 [Speaker 2]
And there might even be people listening to this podcast or watching this video right now.

00:14:39 [Speaker 2]
They're like, what?
00:14:40 [Speaker 2]
I didn't even know that.
00:14:41 [Speaker 2]
Yeah.
00:14:41 [Speaker 2]
Because LinkedIn really didn't make a big splash.
00:14:43 [Speaker 2]
It's not like a big arrow saying, hey.

00:14:44 [Speaker 1]
We got

00:14:45 [Speaker 2]
a video down here now.
00:14:46 [Speaker 2]
If you go on the mobile app, there's a video tab.
00:14:49 [Speaker 2]
And when they first rolled it out, they actually had a a program where you could, if you were amongst the people that were selected, you could submit a video toast to them, and they would Mhmm.
00:15:00 [Speaker 2]
Add it into their feature.
00:15:01 [Speaker 2]
And I was one of those people.

00:15:02 [Speaker 2]
I don't know if my videos ever made it in there, but, they're essentially, they're the videos on the mobile feed are very TikTok, you know, Instagram reel style, like the portrait style talking head videos.
00:15:14 [Speaker 2]
And in the beginning, I noticed they were doing a lot of promotion of the big brand names, like, overly produced videos.
00:15:21 [Speaker 2]
And then I started noticing in my feed, the talking head video where it was, like, one person talking to the themselves, but it was basically the pro and con or, like, a funny version of something.
00:15:32 [Speaker 2]
And then I started seeing real people videos that were coming in there as well.
00:15:36 [Speaker 2]
And if I open up the mobile app, I still see some videos, but to your point, I don't see them as often as I used to.

00:15:43 [Speaker 2]
I don't see them as often as the first year the the Cedar Point rolled out the demon drop.
00:15:47 [Speaker 2]
You know?
00:15:47 [Speaker 2]
Like, I don't

00:15:48 [Speaker 1]
see them as

00:15:48 [Speaker 2]
often.
00:15:49 [Speaker 2]
And now it even seems like they're kind of shifting things along.
00:15:54 [Speaker 2]
The latest thing that they are promoting is for premium business members.
00:15:59 [Speaker 2]
They're adding a custom link.
00:16:01 [Speaker 2]
You giving you the ability to add a custom link to the top of your profile where people can get advice from you.

00:16:07 [Speaker 2]
And when they click on that, it takes you to a checkout page

00:16:10 [Speaker 1]
Yes.

00:16:10 [Speaker 2]
Of your choosing.
00:16:11 [Speaker 2]
So that seems to be their focus right now, and they actually did a little bit of an announcement.
00:16:15 [Speaker 2]
There's been some, news outlets that have picked up the stories on there.
00:16:19 [Speaker 2]
But when it comes to video, Annette, I mean, you know, because you work with clients all the time.
00:16:23 [Speaker 2]
Now the people that are coming to you are people that want to lean into video.

00:16:26 [Speaker 2]
They want to do better.
00:16:27 [Speaker 2]
They want to learn techniques.
00:16:28 [Speaker 2]
There are some people out there that will not do video.
00:16:32 [Speaker 2]
We are not going to force them.
00:16:33 [Speaker 2]
You know,

00:16:34 [Speaker 1]
I know you're right.
00:16:35 [Speaker 1]
You're right.
00:16:35 [Speaker 1]
Of course.

00:16:36 [Speaker 2]
So if you if you don't feel comfortable doing video, don't do video.
00:16:39 [Speaker 2]
If you are video curious, I'm going to say video curious.
00:16:44 [Speaker 2]
You know, you're like, I think I'd like to, but I'm a huge place of discomfort or just lack of confidence.
00:16:51 [Speaker 2]
Or a lot of times, I don't know if you've noticed this with executives or at a certain point in their career where they have all this knowledge and they have this prestige and they don't wanna look like an idiot, you know, or if we will or other colleagues go, that was goofy.
00:17:04 [Speaker 2]
So they're really apprehensive about video.

00:17:06 [Speaker 2]
But if you're open to doing video, I do believe, I do rather agree with that other LinkedIn person that you're saying in that video builds trust.
00:17:15 [Speaker 2]
When you're seeing the person on video, just like right now, if you're watching me on video, you can see the passion behind what I'm saying.
00:17:22 [Speaker 2]
You can feel my, you know, kind of feel my personality.
00:17:24 [Speaker 2]
You can see my excitement.
00:17:26 [Speaker 2]
You can see that Annette is asking me questions, and I'm not reading cue cards for my answers.

00:17:30 [Speaker 2]
So I must know my stuff.
00:17:32 [Speaker 2]
Right?
00:17:32 [Speaker 2]
So that helps to build that know, like, trust, and value factor.
00:17:36 [Speaker 2]
Uh-huh.
00:17:37 [Speaker 2]
And often, that could help to lead us to converting a leader or prospect to a client faster Mhmm.

00:17:45 [Speaker 2]
Than just working with them through email.

00:17:48 [Speaker 1]
No.
00:17:48 [Speaker 1]
I I agree with you.
00:17:49 [Speaker 1]
And and as much as I'm on video, I hate photos of myself.
00:17:53 [Speaker 1]
So for me, just to do a put a selfie with a text post is is more difficult than sharing a video because it's just what I'm comfortable with.
00:18:03 [Speaker 1]
And you, actually, when I did my book, you were the one that forced me to put my my face on the cover.

00:18:07 [Speaker 1]
Oh, yes.
00:18:08 [Speaker 1]
Yeah.
00:18:08 [Speaker 1]
I don't you know, I so while I'm I'm happy to turn on the camera, I hate to have pictures of myself.
00:18:14 [Speaker 1]
So but I but I do it, and I guess I do it a little at a time, and and I'm comfortable with it.
00:18:20 [Speaker 1]
So so so I wanna turn to, to something else.

00:18:24 [Speaker 1]
And and this is kind of, you know, as I mentioned, I'm a I'm a member of your, your membership, Marketing with Miller.
00:18:32 [Speaker 1]
And, one of the reasons, of course, that that brought me to it and brings other members to it is because we have access to you.
00:18:40 [Speaker 1]
And, I have lately, and I think we've talked about this, you know, privately as well, the idea that, you know, having access to someone is important.
00:18:53 [Speaker 1]
And and for to me now, if I'm not getting access to the person running the group where I can actually have an opportunity to ask them a question, it's an automatic no for me.
00:19:05 [Speaker 1]
Automatic no for me.

00:19:06 [Speaker 1]
Now I I, what I'd like to get from you is if you can give people some ideas of kind of signals to look for and that that are good and signals that are not so good.
00:19:20 [Speaker 1]
You know what I mean?
00:19:21 [Speaker 1]
If if you're looking to to hire something like you or someone else.

00:19:24 [Speaker 2]
Yeah.
00:19:25 [Speaker 2]
To hire someone or to join their membership community.

00:19:27 [Speaker 1]
Yes.
00:19:28 [Speaker 1]
Yes.
00:19:28 [Speaker 1]
Exactly.
00:19:28 [Speaker 1]
Exactly.
00:19:29 [Speaker 1]
To work with to pay to work with them in some form.

00:19:31 [Speaker 2]
To pay to work with them.
00:19:32 [Speaker 2]
I think that's that's, you know, you and I are both on the bandwagon this year of no more free for free.
00:19:37 [Speaker 2]
And I I I'm not I'm no longer whispering it.
00:19:40 [Speaker 2]
Now I'm, like, banging the drums.
00:19:41 [Speaker 2]
No more free for free.

00:19:42 [Speaker 2]
I was at a networking event this morning, and the woman next to me, we were talking about this, and she said, what was it?
00:19:50 [Speaker 2]
A closed mouth gets no food, and I might be paraphrasing it incorrectly.
00:19:53 [Speaker 2]
But I'm like, oh my god.
00:19:54 [Speaker 2]
I got I I wrote it in my phone or I opened up my notes app on my phone because I'm like and I said, what's your name?
00:19:59 [Speaker 2]
I said, I'm gonna I'll clarify and I'll post and I'll talk about it.

00:20:02 [Speaker 2]
But I was like, okay, exactly.
00:20:03 [Speaker 2]
Yeah.
00:20:03 [Speaker 2]
You got to like you got to, like, you know, generate business because when you're self employed, you don't get paid.
00:20:09 [Speaker 2]
You don't get paid.
00:20:09 [Speaker 2]
So we're we've been converting to this area.

00:20:13 [Speaker 2]
And, you know, through the years, I've done a lot of free stuff, free webinars, free master classes, free group coaching calls, free Zoom stuff, free free free free free.
00:20:20 [Speaker 2]
And there's, you know, many people who've come along for the ride all along the way.
00:20:24 [Speaker 2]
And and usually at the end of a course launch for my free webinars and things like that, you know, some people would sign up and others wouldn't.
00:20:31 [Speaker 2]
And I would always do a survey at the end saying, why didn't you sign up?
00:20:34 [Speaker 2]
And I had a couple of them saying, well, you know, I got so much information for free.

00:20:37 [Speaker 2]
I don't need to pay to work with you.
00:20:39 [Speaker 2]
So I'm like, well, that's that's on me.
00:20:41 [Speaker 2]
But, I think there's a lot of people who are moving away from the free webinars and master classes and group coaching, and they're now saying, yeah, you can get access to me if you join my membership or if you join my program or community.
00:20:54 [Speaker 2]
And, you know, there's different approaches to doing these things.
00:20:57 [Speaker 2]
And I think when you're working with someone who is, I I a knowledgeable expert for sure.

00:21:05 [Speaker 2]
Mhmm.
00:21:05 [Speaker 2]
But they're offering a cohort approach or maybe smaller group coaching where you get access to them.
00:21:12 [Speaker 2]
Yes.
00:21:12 [Speaker 2]
And I'm gonna I'm gonna shout out Amy Porterfield as an example.
00:21:16 [Speaker 2]
I've been, you know, Amy Porterfield fan for a while.

00:21:18 [Speaker 2]
And when I first joined her program, Digital Course Academy, I think it was back in 2022, 2023.
00:21:24 [Speaker 2]
She would do a Zoom, meeting where you would see everyone else on camera.
00:21:29 [Speaker 2]
And as her business continued to grow, there's a limit to Zoom meetings, and then you have to move to a Zoom webinar where when you're in a Zoom webinar, it's just the presenter.
00:21:38 [Speaker 2]
It's just Amy Porterfield on camera, everybody's video off.
00:21:41 [Speaker 2]
And, and then the community kept growing and growing, and, you know, she's got great advice.

00:21:47 [Speaker 2]
Don't get me wrong on that.
00:21:48 [Speaker 2]
But, when you have 500, a 2,000 people on a call, you can't answer all the questions.
00:21:53 [Speaker 2]
So you gotta submit them in advance.
00:21:55 [Speaker 2]
Right.
00:21:55 [Speaker 2]
So I think if you're shopping around, you have to figure out you know, there there might be a a trade off in the depth of knowledge, or it might be you're you're getting someone for a bargain, you know, if you're joining a group that you get the small group coaching.

00:22:10 [Speaker 2]
And I always say, Annette, you know, sometimes my small group coaching calls for marketing with Mueller, sometimes they're five people.
00:22:16 [Speaker 2]
Sometimes they're 30 to 40 people on the call.
00:22:19 [Speaker 2]
But it rather whether it's five or 30 to 40, I still make sure that everyone gets their questions answered inside the session.
00:22:26 [Speaker 2]
So it's still small enough that it's manageable.
00:22:28 [Speaker 2]
So I think if you're shopping around for programs, if one of your goals is to get access to that person, I think you should ask before signing up.

00:22:37 [Speaker 2]
You know, how do the group coaching calls work?
00:22:39 [Speaker 2]
Is the camera on or camera off?
00:22:41 [Speaker 2]
Are audience members muted?
00:22:44 [Speaker 2]
Do we get the ability to talk?
00:22:46 [Speaker 2]
Does everyone get their questions answered or what's the process that we go through to submit questions coming in?

00:22:52 [Speaker 2]
So just you just wanna go in with your eyes wide open on that process.
00:22:56 [Speaker 2]
I have someone right now who is a marketing with Mel or member, and he is thinking of adding on and joining my other program, which is called the Recipe for Social Selling on LinkedIn.
00:23:05 [Speaker 2]
It's a LinkedIn based online program with small group coaching as a part of it.
00:23:09 [Speaker 2]
And he's been, you know, talking we've been talking back and forth, and he emailed to me this morning.
00:23:13 [Speaker 2]
And he said, just before I join, can you remind me what days are your group coaching calls on?

00:23:17 [Speaker 2]
Because he's still in that decision path and trying to and I think you should ask that question too.
00:23:21 [Speaker 2]
What dates and times are your group coaching programs on?
00:23:24 [Speaker 2]
Now I'm a member of a couple other communities and programs.
00:23:26 [Speaker 2]
Amy Porterfield is one, her Momentum, and I love that group, and it's a great community.
00:23:30 [Speaker 2]
I also belong to John Experian's espresso plus.

00:23:33 [Speaker 2]
And John is located in The UK, and he offers a couple different sessions a month.
00:23:38 [Speaker 2]
One of which is at 10AM UK time, which is at 5AM Eastern Standard Time.
00:23:44 [Speaker 2]
And I'm aware of it.
00:23:45 [Speaker 2]
I don't go to that one unless I for some reason, I wake up at 04:30 in the meeting and and morning and can't fall back asleep.
00:23:51 [Speaker 2]
I think it I've only been to one of those 05:00, but he does offer, like, an afternoon session.

00:23:55 [Speaker 2]
So confirm, the time zone that those calls are offered in.
00:23:59 [Speaker 2]
And then, you know, ask the question.
00:24:01 [Speaker 2]
If you're in a different time zone and it's never gonna be possible for you, you know, ask the question, would you ever consider offering an evening session so that people like me can join in the in the morning Mhmm.
00:24:11 [Speaker 2]
In there as well.
00:24:13 [Speaker 2]
And then, you know, most membership programs nowadays are very similar in they offer either a monthly membership fee or an annual membership fee.

00:24:24 [Speaker 2]
You joined as a founding member, Annette, and you'll you'll know I've talked about this over the years.
00:24:28 [Speaker 2]
I now allow my members to convert from monthly to annual or annual to monthly just based on, you know, where income is falling for their business, if they need a more budget friendly option.
00:24:39 [Speaker 2]
Most membership communities nowadays, if you pay annual, it's you'll get twelve months

00:24:43 [Speaker 1]
for the price.
00:24:43 [Speaker 1]
Right.
00:24:44 [Speaker 1]
Right.

00:24:44 [Speaker 2]
So you're saving a little bit inside there.
00:24:46 [Speaker 2]
So does that help to answer your questions?

00:24:48 [Speaker 1]
No, it does.
00:24:49 [Speaker 1]
It does.
00:24:49 [Speaker 1]
And I'm so glad that you, asked, mentioned, the times and the days because, you know, I I belong to, to Richard's group, the tribe.
00:24:59 [Speaker 1]
Now but the the sessions are always, like, 10AM my time, which is, I think, 05:00.
00:25:06 [Speaker 1]
And he's in Europe.

00:25:07 [Speaker 1]
He's in Spain, but in European time.
00:25:10 [Speaker 1]
And that was important to me, and I because I had belonged to, another program that was run by someone, in in Europe, and it was always, like, 5AM my time, which I could never go to.
00:25:23 [Speaker 1]
And for me, that's part of the thing.
00:25:25 [Speaker 1]
And I was a member for a while, and I didn't renew because I, you know, I guess you get the knowledge.
00:25:31 [Speaker 1]
But if you don't have the opportunity to be with the person say face to face as as you would speak, that that, you know, that's kind of an important thing to me.

00:25:41 [Speaker 1]
So, so I think, yeah, I I think you covered all that.
00:25:45 [Speaker 1]
And, you know, I always like we're getting sort of towards the end, and I don't wanna I don't wanna go over it.
00:25:53 [Speaker 1]
I wanna be I wanna be respectful of your time, but I always like to ask my guests, for a for a final thought because, you know, I've asked you some questions.
00:26:02 [Speaker 1]
You've had I've I've learned a few things myself even though I know you and I've worked with you.
00:26:06 [Speaker 1]
Mhmm.

00:26:07 [Speaker 1]
What would you like to share that you think would be important for, you know, people to know that would help them in their, you know, marketing journey?

00:26:15 [Speaker 2]
Yeah.
00:26:15 [Speaker 2]
It's a great question.
00:26:16 [Speaker 2]
So for first time, I think I'm gonna say I'm gonna use myself as an example.
00:26:19 [Speaker 2]
I invest in one program every year.
00:26:21 [Speaker 2]
You know, I I believe there's something to be said with investing in professional development and in learning from other people.

00:26:28 [Speaker 2]
In the beginning of this year, I, you know, I had a couple of goals for my business, one of which was a no more free for free.
00:26:33 [Speaker 2]
So I've moved away from unpaid.
00:26:36 [Speaker 2]
I've moved into a membership model, you know, where I'm now doing master classes and I charge a fee for them.
00:26:41 [Speaker 2]
And then there's always an opportunity to move into to apply that investment towards one of my programs.
00:26:47 [Speaker 2]
But I also I'm surrounding myself with people that are at or above my level.

00:26:54 [Speaker 2]
Organizations like Innovation Women help us as speakers to help each other.
00:26:58 [Speaker 2]
I joined my local NSA, Michigan National Speaker Association of Michigan.
00:27:03 [Speaker 2]
I joined that chapter.
00:27:04 [Speaker 2]
I'm finding there's a there's a very high caliber of speakers within that organization as well.
00:27:09 [Speaker 2]
So I say, I think everyone who is looking to market themselves, I think there's opportunities to learn from your peers.

00:27:17 [Speaker 2]
And I think there's opportunities to learn from experts.
00:27:20 [Speaker 2]
So it doesn't need to be something you do at the beginning of the year.
00:27:24 [Speaker 2]
It can be at any point during the year.
00:27:25 [Speaker 2]
But think about what's an area that you would like to increase your knowledge in.
00:27:31 [Speaker 2]
And often these do find, you know, find themselves in the areas of marketing.

00:27:35 [Speaker 2]
Right now, I'm actually increasing my focus on marketing with Miller.
00:27:40 [Speaker 2]
And when I launched it in 2024, you know, I I I talked about it at the time that I've always been a marketer.
00:27:45 [Speaker 2]
I'm very passionate about marketing.
00:27:47 [Speaker 2]
I like helping people.
00:27:48 [Speaker 2]
Often, I would get people coming and booking a LinkedIn coaching call with me and they would say, I know it's not LinkedIn question, but can we talk about my email list or can we talk about my website?

00:27:57 [Speaker 2]
And it's always something I was passionate about.
00:27:58 [Speaker 2]
So marketing with Mel is a passion project for me, but it's so much fun doing.
00:28:03 [Speaker 2]
I feel like I can't believe I get paid for it.
00:28:05 [Speaker 2]
I can't believe people are paying me money to come in and we can talk about the things that we are.
00:28:09 [Speaker 2]
So I think you should find things to invest in from a marketing perspective that you enjoy doing.

00:28:15 [Speaker 2]
Maybe it is video marketing and you can find and hire Annette, you know, join her her video boot camp or something like that.
00:28:21 [Speaker 2]
Or maybe it is LinkedIn or marketing and you you come over and talk to me about it.
00:28:24 [Speaker 2]
But you can also ask around, you know, and just, you know, tell others that you respect.
00:28:30 [Speaker 2]
Hey.
00:28:30 [Speaker 2]
I'm looking for some help in this area.

00:28:32 [Speaker 2]
Do you know of anyone?
00:28:35 [Speaker 2]
I will often, you know, get on their free email list first and, you know, you're kind of like circling your wagon.
00:28:41 [Speaker 2]
Is this the kind of person I want to learn from?
00:28:43 [Speaker 2]
What's their vibe?
00:28:44 [Speaker 2]
And then I always look up, look them up on LinkedIn, get the lay of the land there, look at their recommendations, look at their online reviews.

00:28:52 [Speaker 2]
My goal when I invest in a program is if if if possible, if I can tie tie it to revenue, I wanna recoup my investment and I usually set a time frame.
00:29:03 [Speaker 2]
So this membership, community that I joined recently, I said, I'm gonna recoup my investment in the first ninety days of the program.
00:29:10 [Speaker 2]
Now, I'm getting close to that, and I haven't, but I've had some things come up, family matters and things like that that have derailed me.
00:29:16 [Speaker 2]
I'm giving myself grace to extend that to six months now.
00:29:20 [Speaker 2]
But when you, when you invest in a program, you're not gonna have a boss over your shoulder going, hey, we just paid a thousand dollars for you.

00:29:28 [Speaker 2]
What are you getting out of that?
00:29:30 [Speaker 2]
So you really have to, to your point, lock in those dates and times to attend those meet ups, master classes, office hours, whatever they are.
00:29:38 [Speaker 2]
But then you gotta do the work as well.
00:29:41 [Speaker 2]
And one thing I'll often say inside marketing with Mellor, at the end of a master class or a round table or office hours, I'll say, you don't have to do everything that we talked about today, but you do have to do something.
00:29:53 [Speaker 2]
Do one thing.

00:29:55 [Speaker 2]
And if you did one thing from every session that you attend, you would be incrementally better.
00:29:59 [Speaker 2]
You would grow with your business.
00:30:01 [Speaker 2]
It would be supporting your marketing.
00:30:03 [Speaker 2]
Your business will change over time.
00:30:05 [Speaker 2]
So I think that's the piece of advice I have.

00:30:07 [Speaker 2]
Look at investing in yourself, but also doing the work with with what's involved with that investment.

00:30:14 [Speaker 1]
Well, I think that's a perfect place to end.
00:30:17 [Speaker 1]
And if you're not watching this on video, I was raising my hand.
00:30:19 [Speaker 1]
I was one of those people saying, Brenda, marketing, marketing, please.
00:30:23 [Speaker 1]
So thank you so much for spending this time with me.
00:30:26 [Speaker 1]
Again, it's always a treat to chat with you.

00:30:29 [Speaker 1]
For everyone else, thanks so much for listening, and I will see you next time.