Lessons for Ministry Mentors and Mentees

Do you want to be an effective mentor or mentee in ministry? Well, then this episode is for you. Dr. Clinton Cornelius and I, Dr. Robert F. Dowell, share insightful tales from our experience as mentors in ministry, emphasizing the significant role that mentorship plays in personal growth and leadership development. We dive into the core responsibilities of mentors and mentees, and the paramount importance of time management.

We pry open the often-overlooked elements of ministry mentorship, such as maintaining a healthy balance between preaching and teaching and managing family and financial obligations. Drawing from personal experiences, we offer advice on steering through tough situations, handling departures, and what it truly means to take care of oneself in the ministry. We also stress the power of constructing healthy relationships with multiple mentors and how this can significantly aid your journey to success.

Lastly, we explore the heart of achieving greatness, and how releasing one's brilliance is a crucial part of this journey. We bring to light the importance of clear and concise communication with mentors and how this can serve as your roadmap to success. Do remember, your destined greatness is within reach, and striving for excellence is the key. Subscribe, listen in, and let's embark on this enlightening journey together.

Transcript

0:01

Welcome to the Five Fold Food Podcast hosted by Dr Robert F Dowell, where ministers receive the spiritual nourishment they need to succeed. The Word of God declares and he gave some apostles and some prophets and some evangelists and some pastors and teachers for the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ, worship, prayer to receive revelation, wisdom and insight to empower your ministry for victory. Now let's eat.

Dr. Dowell 0:34

Praise the Lord. God bless each and every one of you. Welcome to Five Fold Food. I'm your host, dr Robert F Dowell.

Dr. Dowell 0:41

I'm so delighted that you're here with us for another exciting podcast. I want to encourage you, wherever you are listening to this, if you're on Apple Podcasts or Spotify, wherever you get your podcast, be sure that you do subscribe so each Thursday when we release a new episode, you'll be able to get the updated episode as well. Be sure also to go in and you'll find a place where you can leave a review. Give us a five-star review. Tell us how you enjoy the podcast. All of that helps in the algorithm so that Spotify, apple they'll push this podcast out so more people will know about it. So we appreciate your review on that.

Dr. Dowell 1:25

Also, if you look in the show notes, you'll be able to get a transcript of our time here together today. We believe it'll be a tremendous blessing unto you. Also, you'll find some other links if you look in the show notes so you can get some of my other resources that we pray that it'll be a blessing to help you in your Five Fold ministry. Our endeavor here is to help serve up the Word of God for the Five Fold minister, so that they can eat well and excel. Today I'm joined again by my good friend, dr CP Cornelius. God bless you, pastor C. Welcome to another podcast, as we do this thing together.

Dr. Cornelius 2:07

Yes, sir, bless you sir, glad to be here, man Looking forward to it.

Dr. Dowell 2:11

Man, I am looking forward to the conversation as we're going to be dealing with. We've been dealing with in our previous podcast. We've been dealing with the subject of mentorship, so today we want to continue in those same lines and talk about lessons for ministry mentors and mentees. And I thought about this, pastor C, as we often say, there is revelation in our conversation, and so that's why I'm so glad that we put it in our heart that we're going to make this time, because we're always conversating, we're always talking just to begin to cut the camera on so that we can let others get in the room and learn about it. And so I'm excited about this conversation. You know, I was thinking about it before we went on air and we just talked briefly early today that I think there's a real need for men to have this conversation, because many time ministry mentors, there's some things that need to be taught, some things that they need to teach the mentor. But if they don't know that they need to teach those things or shed those things, then they won't, and the reason they don't? Because nobody ever taught them. Then, at the same time, there's some things that the mentee needs to want to learn and need to learn, but again, pastor C, they haven't been taught and haven't been trained. I think many times we take it for granted that the mentee should know what they want to know. They might know some things that need to know, but there's some things in some conversations, some areas of poor that they're not even aware that they need to have. And so, when we had this conversation, what comes to your mind? I'm just I put this. I want you to begin to share what come to your mind when you think about this, but what I thought about before we begin to record.

Dr. Dowell 4:15

Pastor C, this has been a very you know, I was just texting you been a very busy day. Had to get some things done with my vehicle and we had a time, a plan that we were going to record. We weren't able to do it at that time and I had some things going on with my vehicle and one thing went, another thing went, and so you know, it's kind of almost like on a banana peel that we ran in here to do this podcast and bless all of you that are watching on YouTube. Be sure that you do subscribe as well for all of our video watches. Be sure you subscribe so you can get all the podcasts. But I was just thinking about it as I was coming in to cut on the camera and to do it.

Dr. Dowell 4:51

I was thinking about how busy my day has been with us trying to get ready for this podcast and you said, well, now maybe we'll do it, we'll do it another time if we can. But I'm like, hey, I got this going on, we need to do this podcast. And you got some things going on. Then it hit me. I thought about what is the lesson? You know what's the lesson? Is there even a mentorship lesson? Is there a lesson in how hectic my day has been, how busy your day has been and we're up against it to do this podcast? I began to think like, is there a lesson for mentees or is there a lesson for mentors? And if you got some things I want you to begin to share as we talk about this.

Dr. Cornelius 5:42

I think one thing I hear in this is that a mentor needs to teach or share with the mentee is that time management is vital and important, Because what you want to be able to do is maximize your time. Time is one thing money you can't buy. Time In time you can't get bike so you want to maximize your time. So what I think about, even when you're in the mentee, is in the province of the mentor. You want to maximize that time. So a lesson to be taught is the importance of time management.

Dr. Dowell 6:27

Now help us see. You know how we do that when we're always talking. That's why we wanted to. That's the nature of our conversation. I'm a questioner and we go back and forth. Well, tell me how you pull in this from our day. I get it, you know. Help us with that. Why did you say time management?

Dr. Cornelius 6:43

If I didn't manage my time I wouldn't be sitting here now. See, if I took for granted the importance of time and being able to manage it, I couldn't do this. I got. I got something bigger coming up after this. I'm on a time schedule and doing it. I managed my time and because my management time the next meeting that I'm fitting to go into I'm already prepared.

Dr. Cornelius 7:07

So another thing I hear in this is preparation. That you also understand the importance of preparation, because in any day you never know what's going to go on in that day to change some things. So if I already have my preparation to gather I'm good to go, is something else in bumping my time. So I think that's so about important time management. So so that's why I say that and that's what I see in it, because time management keeps me ready to flow. I can flow a lot easier when my time is proper, when I, you know, when I, when I got the time, I don't have to rush it because of preparation and sometime what we do, you know you talk about something to be taught.

Dr. Cornelius 7:54

I thought about some G's, for example the glory, to mean the glory, the anointing. Oh man, I got the glory, I got the anointing, but you also have to understand with that anointing you still need preparation. You can easily sit back and say I'm going to just do it from the hip, I'm going to just do it, I don't really prepare, I'm waiting for the Lord to just give it to me, and that's true is times when it come that way. But you should always have time where you have preparation and therefore that need to be talked to. That mentee, that preparation is important, managing your time is important, cause you don't wanna waste any time cause you can't get it right.

Dr. Dowell 8:38

You can't get it right, man. I think that's good. You know when I thought about it. You know that didn't come to me now cause I didn't see a lesson in it, but you know I thought to look at it. Is there a lesson in this? And that's part of the lesson that mentors and those that walk at certain levels they are intentional about always looking for lessons.

Dr. Cornelius 8:58

Aha, that's good man, that's so true, they look for it.

Dr. Dowell 9:01

It's not just like it's on top of the surface that it's easily. Some lessons are easily there. But just in it, that whole thought process, is there a lesson in it? And I didn't see one. You know I was driving back. I let you know, hey, we'll be up on in a few minutes. You know we're up against, you know some time constraints, but that's one lesson in it that mentors and mentors and those that are successful in some areas, they're always looking for lessons.

Dr. Cornelius 9:30

That's true, they're looking for them and if you look you'll find Right Now, looking what come to my mind, God, is that mean you have to do some digging? So when I'm in the present of my, I'm in the present of my mentor, I'm trying to dig. I'm looking to see what I can learn as I watch that mentor, as I see some what's the lesson for me in it? And I think, as a mentor, you need to show the mentee that there's times when your time is a problem and cause there's such a demand on your time. You don't want to waste time. See, you follow the same and then sometime, man, you have to redeem the time. Oh, this is good.

Dr. Cornelius 10:15

I don't want to waste my time, but yet there's a demand on my time. So now another word come to mind that I think needs to be taught to mentee man. To mentee is balance.

Dr. Dowell 10:26

Well, you hold up. Let me, before you turn that page, I want to hit that because you hit a good thing. You said a few GMC. You said one you wouldn't be here without time management, right. So that's something, some opportunities, some things we can miss. See, it's good you miss it and it's not because, well, they messed up the vehicle and this person did this and that did that. All those things happen and stuff on your end. No, the root of it is you didn't do a good job of managing your time cause you had no room for things to go wrong. It's good Because you don't have the proper preparation. There we go, and so some things we can miss. And on the practical things with that, listen, because of time management, I had some things already done when I was in another city waiting on them to do something. I was able to get some things done for even and that's why we go behind the scenes you often say that thing this is the whole thing with the podcast. Many times people just see what happens.

Dr. Dowell 11:29

We very well could have did this podcast. We had a general idea and we knew the direction we wanted to go in the podcast. We could have went into that direction, past the scene, not dealt with. All the background stuff that happened. How, my day the podcast coming in on a banana peel. No one would have known that. But I believe, like you always say, the learning is with the five-fold food and especially with mentors and mentee. You get the behind the scenes stuff. Yes, sir, realize the value of that. To dig, like you said, for the stuff that everybody else don't get. That's correct. If you dig with your questions, the background and what we're doing, we're giving them background so they can have a better appreciation. So before we got here, see there's some things in the setting up of the podcast I did on my phone before I got to my computer. Why that's a level of preparation. I knew, hey, if I have time to do it, let's get some stuff done, let's get this done, let's get this done, let's get this done. I wasn't thinking about it but, as you're saying this, really we're able to do a lot because of good time management, practice and learning how to do things and not wait until the last minute for seeing things, and I think that's so important. So I wanted to set up before we turn the page because that was so good.

Dr. Dowell 12:57

When you said about the time management and this because again, because to see, this is so good if we didn't disclose all of this, they wouldn't be able to have a level of appreciation to get to learning, like you said that many times with your leader or anybody that you that seems to be doing anything effective, to doing something on a great level, that they have great time management. They just don't talk about it. They just show up, do what they're supposed to do, but if you don't have the background, you don't know that. You need to get good at that skill as well, and that's why I think that's so important.

Dr. Dowell 13:37

When you brought that up, that we have to manage our time, because there's so much on our time See, that's things I got. I got some coming up after this, then I got something else going on, so many things. But because of the managing our time, we can do it all, but sometime we can make it seem easy and if we don't talk about this, then mentors don't look for this, because this is not, this would not have been our conversation that we have to manage our time to do the podcast, to do what you gotta do later, to do what I gotta do and mentees, they miss those lessons because they don't even have a clue of the importance of time management, because we just do it but don't talk about it. Is that making sense? What are you hearing in this?

Dr. Cornelius 14:18

We're just having a conversation, yeah. So let me tell you, though, with you stating that, one thing though when you talk about time and us having to do this, but see this come in time we weren't always where we at right now. So when you brought up the point about oftentimes that mentee, our others might see what happened instead of coming, like, I always shared with you by stage, by stage, at one point I couldn't invite you by stage because I didn't have my time management together, and so, for me, I can't stand clutter. I can't stand when things cluttered, so I have to have preparation, because now I can clearly think, and I believe I can tap into the spirit of God more clearer when my mind is clear. And what helped me get a clear mind is managing the time that I have.

Dr. Cornelius 15:16

All I got is now, man, all I got is now, so I don't wanna waste that, and there's such a demand on that. So the other thing I think ended up happening for me is and I think mentors should share with mentees is I'm looking to make the most of my time. So what I mean by that, we had one particular time that we were gonna get together, so after that time, when it was gonna work immediately. I was trying to feel that time in what I can do to get me prepared for not just my next thing after this, but guess what I want to look into tomorrow now, okay, lord, if I'm here tomorrow, I need to go on and get this out of the way. So now I'm not wasting no time, so now I'm not sitting on edge.

Dr. Dowell 16:06

You know, wait, wait, I'll let man, I'm wasting my no, no, wait, no me to see when we're gonna record the podcast, you what you redeem the time.

Dr. Cornelius 16:14

I redeem the time. I redeem the time. So now as I go into tomorrow, lord, spare my Life to See Tomorrow I already got some stuff already done. I'm ready to go after moving that so often time man is so important. We do talk about it because I'm on the go, I'm on the go and I'm moving and so with me moving, so often time people do say that stop, I see you look like you, just man. It don't take them for you to do it. You don't understand all my work behind stage before you see me out front, the preparation, the thing that I'm doing prior to it. So I don't waste my time.

Dr. Dowell 16:55

I think that's so good and that's a lesson for go both ways. When we bring it, put it like I tell Pastor Jacobe we put it where the goats can get it, because it's down on the low. We put the cookies on the lower shelf, we don't want to put them up too high. This help mentors to know. These are things the lessons of time management Hopefully you've mastered. In this skill you're doing better that you pass on that along to those that you mentor it and, whatever level, how it works for you Mentees to learn to pull those lessons, how they're able to do with the kids and with this and with that. And those are some things you need to be trying to learn, lessons that mentees need to learn to try to pull out. And I said another thing what I saw a lesson in this. I see, when I was thinking about it I did a lesson. Part of the lesson too is and we won't be able to deal with in this podcast, but what we'll probably deal with it later is that I even have a friend that I can bounce stuff off, and not on just a friend, but a friend tour, that I even can ask him. And these are the things, the conversations we have. We're not just doing this because of a podcast, but that's a normal question. I will ask you like see, what's the lesson in this man? What's something that we can learn in this? You know what? And so that's a lesson that, for the mentees and mentors and everybody that you need to actively and prayerfully ask God, if you don't have it, send people in your life, a friend in your life, so iron can truly sharpen iron, and the sooner you begin to have that prayer, look for that, because that becomes invaluable. That's why we're able to do the podcast.

Dr. Dowell 18:43

This is really 20 years in the making. So many lessons, so many things we've taught one another, and so now, by being reflective in this, this is something I teach. I like to tell that I mentor and that's why we wanna have a bigger platform, so more people can get in the room and hear it that you need to be praying that God send a friend. Don't be friend hungry, don't be a crumb snatcher, but be mindful that I need these people and God willing his time and if we're not aware of it, see when they send them. This is the other part. We'll fumble the moment. We'll mess a good thing up. Why? Because you won't have appreciation for a friend. You're looking for somebody who on a whole another level, somebody that can throw it and stuff, and still looking for someone that's authentic ministry friend. So iron can sharpen iron, you can grow together.

Dr. Dowell 19:39

So I thought that all of that just hit me. That was part of the lesson and it just being able to have somebody to dialogue about that situation. I thought that would help mentors and mentees to realize there's a true value. And I said this and every friendship is different. There's levels to this thing and so I have ministry friends.

Dr. Dowell 20:02

Some we may talk once a week, twice a week or once a month. Some it might be when I see you it's like we catch up where everything's going. So, whatever level it on, celebrate that level, be good with that level. But then you wanna realize to be aware of the different levels, cause there'll be some levels, like our relationship, that we'll talk more frequently. Not a down on my other friendship. It just is what it is and that's why we gotta teach that, because when God sends those strategic people, if you're not aware of the value of that prophecy, you can fumble the moment and you can miss so many things that life God had for you, because you fumble the moment of the people that he sent to you. I don't know if this making sense, just making sense.

Dr. Cornelius 20:48

We just having a conversation, yeah, but let me share what I hear. That makes sense, though. How do you do that down? Humility, man. I hear humility. You got the armor yourself to be willing and respect, show equal respect one for another, for that friend, but you got the armor yourself and being willing to say, hey, man, I wanna bounce this off of you. I'm looking for this, and I think what happened sometime.

Dr. Cornelius 21:20

One thing I heard two previous years ago man modified up with our bishop is that the enemy want us to guess, get into isolation. We wanna become, if we ain't careful, the long range, and so I think we need to teach that to the mentees, that it's important that you foster relationships. In order to do that, you got to be humble, but in what brings on the humility, though, you got to be comfortable in your own self. See, I'm comfortable in myself, so I can allow you to bring something to my table, but when I'm not comfortable in myself, jealousy, all of that can easily creep in. So now I say you know what man I'm better? Man I rather run by myself. Man, I rather run by myself. Man, I don't really go down with nobody, man, I just kinda do my own thing.

Dr. Cornelius 22:17

No, isolation is dangerous man. You need somebody that can speak in your life, and especially five fold, because often times someone always pulling for us, they're pulling out of us, so we need somebody to pull back into us, I mean, and I'm down here to be there. But one other thing that make a difference another pastor can feel another pastor. So it's things I can share with you. You can feel it because you're a pastor like I'm a pastor that I feel like others cannot feel that. You know they don't feel it, and so my other leadership around me here at the church they might. My other guys might not feel me cause they're not a pastor. So I gotta pass the friend in my life and a mentor to me. But that all requires umning yourself and having respect, equal respect one for another.

Dr. Dowell 23:19

And that's the term we call friend tour, meaning that it goes from. We're on the same level.

Dr. Cornelius 23:26

Yes.

Dr. Dowell 23:27

And that's the friend, the eye and sharp eye. But then there's some time where you, in that particular conversation, that particular thing we're doing with you're on a higher step. Cause, in order for all to flow, it got to be up at a higher place. It don't flow on the same level. So that's the humility. And then, but then it'll change and sometime it'll be, I'll be on the high step. And now, now you'll let me pour into some of the things. So that's where it becomes the friend tour.

Dr. Cornelius 23:56

Yeah.

Dr. Dowell 23:57

Sometimes you might just have a mentor, that, just that meaning only going one way.

Dr. Cornelius 24:00

Yeah, when it's a friend tour it goes both ways and that's good because, see, I spent more of my friend to jump in the foxhole with me. My mentor might not, but my friend. Now, robert the friend a jump in the foxhole and that foxhole with me I'm going through. Now Robert the friend are coming, but then it's Robert the mentor that pushes me to do what I'm doing right now, man Cause this wasn't my thing, as you know. I said nah, nah, hey, but you push, oh yeah, and what you did you pulled out of me that I didn't realize was in me. I didn't want to lie to come out.

Dr. Dowell 24:46

I go both ways.

Dr. Cornelius 24:47

You pulled it, you pulled it out. You pulled it out, see, but this, you function as a mentor cause. I look up to you in that area. You got that gift, you're able to do it. So, but at the same time you're the friend Cause, man, I don't, I don't be. In some situations, man had to throw up my hands, man, and you was there. You was there, man. Just quickly, man, just allow me to. Man, I can remember, I mean kudos to you, man, our fervor, friendship. And when we talk about the difference in the two man, I remember I had a rough one week man. Rough. That one Wednesday I lost my mother-in-law and then the following Sunday I lost my number one on my barrel. God, it served me, man, and I had to call you and man, no expense on me. You flew in, man, you took over from me, man, you flew in, you came in the foxhole with me. You came in the foxhole with me, man. So that's where that friendship came in at.

Dr. Dowell 25:49

But it goes both ways. I remember, you know it might have been 2000. And first day of the night when we lost a set of twins, you know, and there was a rough season for us. You know we're going through that and then you, you know, you brought us out just to not to preach, not to teach, just to let us get away and heal, and so all those things. Though that's what friends do and these are conversations that people have because of mentors, and young ministers have not aware of it.

Dr. Dowell 26:24

Pastor C, there's so much we want to try to get up, to quote unquote, ministry ladder, whatever that means, you know, and nothing wrong with having a progressive mindset, you know, to maximize their gift and where God want to send them, but then they won't value relationships and then they'll get at the end of the day and then they'll be on stages by themselves and have nobody that really care. Do you really care about me, and not just my gift and what I bring to the table, just by me as a human? And the older they get they'll begin to realize, and some, if they fumble those moments, then they won't have anybody because everything was a gig. So, almost like a preaching gig, you just go here to preach, here to preach, here to preach, here to preach, and you build no authentic relationships, and so you want to be mindful of that. You said something a pastor can feel a pastor, but see a prophet can feel another prophet, and evangelists can feel another evangelist. That's correct.

Dr. Dowell 27:26

You know what I mean. You know a teacher and that's why you want those relationships. So these are some things lessons. Mentors need to know that they need to be teaching, but I hit this fast to see if they haven't learned these lessons. As a mentor, you can't give what you haven't got unless you go and get it. So if you're not relational, then you won't teach that, and this is why I want to share mentors.

Dr. Dowell 27:50

That's why mentees, you need to realize that your mentor might not. These are things that need to know. Your mentor might not have everything that you need, mm correct, because they're not God. So there might be some things that they have that you need, but if they don't have everything that you need, then that's why you need to have more. It's good to have more than one mentor, because if this mentor have not been mentored, have been poured into it in an area, they won't pour into you in that area. They don't have authentic relationship, that they are a long ranger, they're not going to model that and put that into you, and so that's why you gotta realize you might not get everything from your mentor. Be open to eat off different tables and have different mentors that help you in a different area in your life, and I think that's the lesson. Now let's go further.

Dr. Cornelius 28:41

Go ahead, pastor C, let me say with that what you just said. So it's sounding like what I'm hearing. Then you're saying that make me more healthy, and one thing I've always told us is that is that healthy church, that healthy relationship. You know that numerals don't necessarily mean just cause you got the numerals is good. But the question become is it healthy? Is it healthy? And when I hear you say that, man, that drop in me. That now you're talking about, you need to have healthy relationships so, and that make you healthy, that you because you're not just taking one thing off the table, you got others there, that you would need mentors to help you in different areas. So now I think what I shared with you earlier down that way, that balance come. If you need a balanced diet, that's what make you healthy, a balanced diet. And I think mentors need to say that to mentees, man, that we need to let them know that, that that's so valid and important.

Dr. Dowell 29:47

That's true. Having that balance in that, I like that. Well, you're healthy, yeah, healthy, cause that's what a balanced diet does.

Dr. Cornelius 29:56

You need more than just meat.

Dr. Cornelius 29:58

I think your relationship is healthy. I think me you have such a healthy relationship because I'm not trying to pull everything from you, Like you say, you're not gone. I got other friends, like what you brought up earlier. I got other friends that I might not talk with as often, but it's other areas that I tap in the dim fur that I don't with you, and that's what keep me healthy and keep our relationship healthy, and I keep the door open where it's not, as if you know, I'm upset with you cause you got somebody else that I'm not friends with but you spend time with them. You know y'all got different areas and you, the golfer man, you got guys you golf with. Hey, that's your thing, that's your thing, you know so and I'm cool with that. It doesn't matter.

Dr. Dowell 30:52

Golf keep me humble.

Dr. Cornelius 30:57

So that's what I mean by that also being healthy yourself and the relationship healthy.

Dr. Dowell 31:03

Let's do this, phasasee, let's go down so we can help the mentor and the mentee. Things that the mentor need to teach, mentor need to want to learn, and what are some things that hit you. I'll go one, let's say for the mentee. I think some things they need to learn as a mentee, I think they need, and I just hit two, we'll go by twos or whatever. We'll see how we flow. Maybe two, we throw out two, kind of do a little rapid fire with it. I think mentees need to, they need to be mentee in preaching and teaching. I think you need to get mentorship in preaching and teaching, see, because most of the time, though, your mentor they might just be either or, and that's why you can't just look for one person. So help, help, help.

Dr. Cornelius 31:49

I'm gonna wrap that for me. Help me to see that.

Dr. Dowell 31:53

Teaching and preaching. Jesus went about teaching and preaching and teaching, meaning that you need to learn the skills of how to be an effective teacher of the word, but then you need to learn how to be the skills to be an effective preacher of the word. So one you might do more than one. It's kind of like let's put in a basketball, you might have a dominant hand, your right hand, the left handed, but, as if you're gonna be a balanced player, you need to be able to use both hands. You might have one that you prefer, one that you're better in. And let's do another example basketball. You might be a sharp shooter, like they might say, like a Clay Thompson or somebody else. You know there's a sharp shooter, he can shoot and that's your dominant thing. But if you're gonna be balanced, clay has to have some ability to put the ball on the floor and go to the rack. He just can't be only that.

Dr. Dowell 32:48

And so I believe, to be balanced mentees, it's good that you have the training and exposure in that, but if you don't have a mentor that ever had these conversations and they just all teach you, all preach you, then I believe there's some things that you might not know, and that's not a negative, it's just a thing like these are conversations for us to see that we wanna be able to have the others could be in the room that mentees, because if their mentor don't bring them into that, if they don't have an awareness of that, then they'll never get that. If they don't have a treacher, so to speak Every pastor's not a treacher. You know where they do both and so I think a mentee and it's not fair to them to look for that mentor to give them that if that's something that they don't do. So hope that helps.

Balancing Priorities and Mentoring in Ministry

Dr. Cornelius 33:34

They help a lot, but on the other side, they help a lot, but in that same vein, though. I think. The beginning, though, is, first of all, we need to come to understanding that they have the difference in the two. So I think mentors need to be able to let mentees know that there's a difference in the two, and we can't assume that everybody recognized that there's a difference in the two, and how.

Dr. Dowell 34:02

Let me stop you, though. And the mentor need to know that themselves. That's the difference, that there's a difference.

Dr. Cornelius 34:09

That's right, but otherwise you can't help me, the mentee. If you don't recognize that, how do?

Dr. Dowell 34:15

we know the difference, see if they look. Look in the show notes, you'll see a link and you'll be able to look in the show notes. You'll see a link and on my link you'll see a book that I wrote called Foundation for Ministry of Longevity and I deal with that. I kind of lay out Somewhere the teacher between preaching and teaching. It's a free resource and so if you don't have that a value that I kind of lay out in that so you can kind of get an idea of the difference between Preaching teaching, so be sure you get that free resource To help you in that that, we kind of go into that. So that's good.

Dr. Cornelius 34:46

We'll deal with that and later podcast to as well, past the seat, yeah cuz, if I get, if I get loud right now, people could know that and I'm preaching. So another time, another day, we'll deal with that.

Dr. Dowell 35:01

What's one or two you'll throw out then just, and we'll be able to, and this is the whole thing in the podcast. So we can kind of deal with that to help mentor them, in that that we become that mentor in the five-fold food, in that. What's some other errors? One or two, you would say the importance of family and money. So mentors need to teach this and mentees need to want to learn it, cuz I think it goes both ways. Whatever we throw out, it does go both ways it go.

Dr. Cornelius 35:27

Both ways, it go, both ways. I think that we need to understand the balance use a family and money, family money. Yeah, that's why, why, why I think that I Once heard on Stated it, but he was talking about, let's say, a mega church. Why have a mega church but a storefront family?

Dr. Dowell 35:51

My marriage. Now, they tell you, are you. Are you throwing stone at the storefront? Man, we might have some storefront past us, some storefront leaders. What's wrong with the storefront? What are you doing? Are you throwing up on the storefront?

Dr. Cornelius 36:03

What?

Dr. Dowell 36:04

no, I'm sorry, I was started. That's why I cut my teeth. That in the storefront.

Dr. Cornelius 36:10

Oh no, what? What I'm saying? What I'm stating is that we seem to put so much in trying to be mega and we step on the storefront and our marriage become like so front, instead of recognizing this, where we at now Hmm, because we so busy be trying to become a bigger that we overlook we look down on the marriage or the family. We put it behind, we it's not a priority because I'm busy right now. So, but I do think that once again, that's my word that there's a balance there and I do think you have to look at what season you in. That's important, that mentors need to teach mentees that every season is not the same season. So, and there was one season in my life where where I I spent more time. I never miss any any events that my needs, one of my kids was happy, and then I end up raising me, me and Frenchie end up raising also my nephew, but they, but they, I never spent time, miss any time not being there, so that they ever look by cuz some you taught me a long time.

Dr. Cornelius 37:26

Well, here we go about this mentor friend told deal when I remember you all, just always the one across my mind and I started teaching it to guys that I mentor. You always said you always they see, you don't want on Thanksgiving, y'all all sitting around the table and your children end up saying what are you talking about? You were there for me, you care more about the church. So there was a season when I was there more with them and, to be honest with you, they got more priority than the church did. But then that thing shifted. It was a point then when I was coming out, the long I was traveling because now my kids had got a friend, my kids that got up age and I was balancing it where I can be both places Then I felt at the Lord was shifting to my season, more focus, where ministry, ministry became my dominant hand. I Put it that way.

Dr. Cornelius 38:30

So, I need to be taught, because I think there's a balance, because I think we can go one way or the other and get off balance. Some would emphasize that oh you wrong, it's. Your family should always be first. And I'm not saying family shouldn't be, but I'm saying based on the season, you it, you in it's more time. Of course I'm empty nest man. I'm empty nest, so I do spend more time at peaceful. I take in certain engagements now, I travel more now. I preach out more now because I'm empty nest. But it was at one point, man, I couldn't take anything on a Saturday cuz my son played cause wall so I needed to be in the stands.

Dr. Cornelius 39:15

I like that but you know, so it depends on that.

Dr. Dowell 39:21

And hit the money. I hear you what? What's the thing with the money?

Dr. Cornelius 39:25

the money is. We've been talking about balance. You better know how to balance the checkbook. I know somebody that can help you balance, because if you don't get the money right, you're going down. You got to know how to manage. You didn't part of some money. I get somebody around you that can manage it, because one of the things that bring people down a bitch always Would tell us that the gold G old ad you better know how to deal with the gold. Ever, ever said the money is the gold. The girls are Taking hold of God's glory. Those are the three things that are bring down. Mess around with God glory. Mess around with the girls. If you're not a deal with with temptation and dealing with that and Not knowing I have how to handle the gold, that's important. So I think you have to take the time to show that and Understand what works best for you financially.

Dr. Cornelius 40:19

Don't be moved while what other people driving, what other people living in, when you still in? Yes, you know, you're still in your face stage. It ain't materialized yet. Yeah, it ain't materialized yet. I call it closing your eyes. You, at one point where your eyes are closed. We walk by faith and not by sight. My eyes close, I still see it. It's just that it ain't manifested.

Dr. Cornelius 40:43

I think they say where your faith, where your eyes is open. I mean, what now I can see clearly, I see this. I know I can get this without it taking me out.

Dr. Dowell 40:55

That's good. So you know what hit me with that too, that's not only the managing of it and that's we things that need to have conversations. We will lay the podcast just uh, not just the managing of it, the making of it, the balance of it, the right mindset Of it, you know, is it a little of them charging for products, honorariums when they go places, having people come in what's good, what's not, what's acceptable, should they get anything? You know, are they charging for the gospel if they have an honorarium? Just having mentorship, having these kind of conversation with five-fold ministers, I think those things, that mentors, if you know these things, these are some things you need to talk about. That, that, that you don't. You won't get this on sunday, so I think all of that.

Dr. Cornelius 41:53

How to make a difference and a dollar yeah, yeah because some so some won't.

Dr. Dowell 42:00

Some just Focus on making a difference. Some don't think making a dollar is wrong, but these are some things we need to mentor. Let's throw some more out. Well, what's some other ones? I? I say, uh, I said prophetic, and let's say all to work, that kind of go in the same thing. So let's say, let's just say prophetic In the prophetic, you need mentorship in that.

Dr. Dowell 42:24

Definitely. If you said, well, I'm not a prophet, that ain't my office, well, one day, if you are listening to this, if you're gonna, if you become a senior pastor, a leader, you're gonna have these ministry gifts in your body. So if you have no Training, no mentorship, no learning, you're gonna be ill equipped to help govern those gifts not controlled, but govern. So you, you need to have some that. Let's say, well, I'm not gonna ever be a pastor, well, you're gonna work with other ministry gifts that are there. So if you're a part of the five, five fold we call it cadre or minister and you have no training, no, no development, you don't know how to Effectively relate to those gifts. Then also there's a dimension of the prophetic that I believe every minister Should be able to move in.

Dr. Dowell 43:16

I said a dimension we won't have time to unpack it. But those are some areas, yeah, that I see. Anything you want to just say we can't dig into it before I know you got a gop ask to see. But Anything you want to just say in that, just to kind of help. Why this important, you know.

Mentorship and Leadership Development Importance

Dr. Cornelius 43:31

I I've been saying some G's, right, the other G I had, you just spoke it, but in a different way. My other G was govern. I think you need to teach Mentors, mentees, how to govern whatever it is that's going on in the ministry that they're over, even, like you say. You might not be pastor now, but you're flowing in some. You got to know how to govern, govern it. If you don't know how to govern it, you don't know how to guide or govern somebody. You're gonna guide them.

Dr. Dowell 44:03

I said all right, now let's rewind. I know we can rewind on the podcast, but said this again you dropped the bar right there, man of God.

Dr. Cornelius 44:09

Yeah, because if what I'm saying, if you don't know how to govern, I guide people, you gonna die them. You're gonna guide them down and the next thing you look up they're gonna be gone Because you guide them, because you didn't know how to govern it, because you know what, you went open up, open up enough to learn about it, to know more, grab as much as you can. So, no, I might not be a prophet, but I need to know about that so I can know how to govern that. So I don't guide somebody that got a gift and and they say now I got to be gone. So you, mentor, is better, teach that. Teach that that all of us do not. It's five fingers down. All of us don't have. We don't have all five thumbs, man. It ain't all five thumbs, man. It ain't all five rain fingers, man. Each one of them different. Gifts, each one of them different. Our hands, each one of them different. So I got to know how to govern this. I got to know how to work this.

Dr. Dowell 45:10

Good stuff, man, and they need to know, like you say, and govern it another word for govern what we mean. That's why prophetic people feel smothered and they can't breathe in ministry because they don't have that leadership. You have to be taught leadership. That's that's. You need to be mentored as a leader, because many times if you're a five-fold gift, you become a de facto Leader. So you're gonna be leading in the church, people gonna look to you, that they're gonna get responsibility to you. You're gonna be platformed so people gonna as aspire to you. So you'll be leading where the say, in some type of ministry, auxiliary or department. But so if you never develop those skills, so you need to be developed as a leader, so as a mentee, you need to seek to learn. You need to seek to learn leadership. So you need to seek to, to learn those things. So I think, but if nobody ever taught you that that you realized important, you don't seek to do that. And so I think that that's one, and then I will put with that before we get ready to close Apostolic as well. Because, see, when we're talking about the gifts, you need to, you need to have some mentorship, some teaching. That's why we're gonna serve up five-fold food. So yet you'll have an awareness of what apostolic ministry is. Not that so that you could be one, but there's a dimension of it that you still should flow in a dimension of it, and so, but if you've never been exposed to it to know it, you can lack in your ministry Development because you never have a concept. So that's what I said leadership, and I'll give one more before we get ready Going. You can hit this see people skills. Ministers need Training and development in people skills because if you don't have people skills, a lot of things will get killed. Whoo, I like that. What I mean? People skill. See, and this is the thing I I didn't, I didn't learn past to see, I To, to my detriment, in some phases and stages of my ministry, I have, I thought I had people skills, but some I didn't.

Dr. Dowell 47:24

You need to be taught how to deal with disgruntled people. Yes, disrespectful people, divisive people that divide, dominating people that got dominating spirits, people that disappear you can't, you can't find them, they ghost. You come on. People who Get it done, people you know Disappear oh, that's so good man working them. D that this. How do you deal with when you're disappointed? You know, and what some leaders do. They put fences up and they say I'm not getting hurt again, no one will ever get close to me again because the last ones that hurt me, they won't get close. So you got senior leaders who won't let people get close. Then you got ministry people who they sit back in it. They like to be in the trees. They'll even attend churches that they'll be in the trees. So because they don't want to get hurt again.

Dr. Cornelius 48:20

So, man, you real good, but we gotta be taught that people who distance you, they get to a point. They you hey, they distance you. Now they distance themselves from you. You got to deal with those kind of people, that's correct, but some, as you been you've been showing a lot on lately man. Also, as important, you got know how to deal with people when it's time for them to depart from you.

Dr. Dowell 48:43

Oh man, we work. We just know we didn't practice this. I like, man, somebody need to you, they need to text us, even all them. I love them, these man, we're gonna pass it, we're gonna go back and we'll sit in transcript. We're gonna have to do a podcast on them, these cuz other, although some are they some deadly deez or Disruptive? I think we need to deal with those deez. Disappoint you that they ghost you they down.

Dr. Cornelius 49:09

You Damage in these Damn, I wouldn't go damaging.

Dr. Dowell 49:16

If I know, we only in fast to see we're on the end of our time. But, man, some of the thing you know, what you talk, I wouldn't talk, I fumbled the ball in some of those things you would see what you found sometime in some things I didn't, I didn't respond the right way with it. You know to me, sometime in my earlier my mention, my little heart was broken. You know to me my heart was broken when people departed they departed, man. It broke my heart right cuz I thought I thought we was gonna do this thing forever, correct correct and they were keeping it 100.

Dr. Cornelius 49:48

They were just there for a season. If they're for a season and your growth.

Dr. Dowell 49:52

I should have. I should have just known that right cuz don't everybody said that no, no, no, no, no, that's common knowledge, isn't it?

Dr. Cornelius 50:00

No, you say you fumble that, but you, you said that you wasn't taught. Then you asked me what's the difference between me? And you see, I was raised up in church. I had a mentor that taught me, my previous father in the ministry, who went with the Lord, who passed with me. He mentored me, I remind you, from a little boy up. He mentored me. So I learned.

Dr. Cornelius 50:25

But down when I'm, where I dropped the ball. What the Lord had to deal with me on is when I was the second man in charge, when I was not pastor, and I flow more like an evangelist that's how I preach, that's how I talk that I was rough. So when I became pastor, the Lord had to show me that you have to shift differently, because now you, the shepherd I was a hiring before and you, a shepherd, does not handle the people the way I hiring him, the people, mmm. And because of that that's where I dropped the ball. I had to recognize. For now Lord told me you, the shepherd, you would carry all kind, dirty, spotted, messed up. How do you deal with all kind? Before, all you did was preach to him and go on.

Dr. Dowell 51:17

And it says an evangelist. I like that. So they got to know how to flow with that if we. So we got to have the evangelist to who have that fire message. Yeah, I don't know how to deal with the people.

Dr. Cornelius 51:28

Correct and that that was my problem. Oh no, I was bring something. Fine man.

Dr. Dowell 51:35

Man, oh man, as we, as we close this, wouldn't you give the final thought man, this has been good, it's been a great conversation. I've enjoyed it with you. What were you saying? This is how we do it anyway. What do you see the Not just your takeaways, but what do you see the Lord doing in this podcast today? How we've helped our mentors and mentees. What do you think? You know God does different things and everybody in different people. What would you say is God wanted to do and model and accomplish in this podcast today?

Dr. Cornelius 52:06

that that is simple, man, but it's powerful to me, and daddy is down. We can never stop teaching or learning. As mentors, I'm mentees. It goes both ways. I think Lord want to show that they should always be fruit on the tree and I want to share the fruit. I want to share the fruit. Now You're not gonna grow. Nothing grows unless it get rooted. It's not it. So what what you mean, see, is that as we're together as a mentor now I'm the mentor, you the mentee I got to get your roots deep, because roots this deep was staying strong. So, as a mentor, that's my job.

Dr. Cornelius 52:53

As a mentee, I Want to make sure I open up. Meaning is I dig around my heart. I open up so you can put stuff in me, so my roots can go deep, and I think that's what this do for me, that, and I think that's the impact it can make On the hero the ones is listening to this. You're trying to go deeper and you're trying to help somebody go deeper, one or the other. How I'm gonna do that. You got to keep teaching them things and what we share, some things that they need to be taught, but you got to stay open to keep learning some things as the mentee I wonder for come on, give me some more, because I need my roots to go deep, because it's the roots that go deep to stand man.

53:40

I.

Dr. Cornelius 53:41

Man, I'm from Florida. Here, right here, right at my church, right with my church, we got all old trees that been there forever, forever. I have seen it forever. A car come Speed, no care how fast, hit the tree, hit the old tree all the do, just knock, knock a little bit off of it. But guess what? It crushes the car. Why? Cuz that oak tree roots are so deep down Now. They would have caught the oak tree when they first planted it. The car wouldn't ran it over. But after it, don't bend their wire and get deep rooted. Can't knock it down, man.

Dr. Dowell 54:20

Wonderful mess, our endeavor in the five-fold food that we want to help raise up people to be, oak trees that's planted by the rivers of water that cannot be moved, and what I just seen the demonstration pass to see, with me Asking you that question.

Dr. Dowell 54:34

It's not planned, it's not scripted.

Dr. Dowell 54:36

These are conversations that we have.

Dr. Dowell 54:38

But it hit me that's part of the prophetic dimension, because you flow in dimension of the prophetic Meaning that when you put a demand and pull on it to see what it's got saying at this time, in this season For this people, that's a prophetic thrust to put into words what God is doing, what God has done, because it's not a natural thing.

Dr. Dowell 55:01

So that's when we're pulling on that prophetic dimension and say we don't talk these things, we won't understand how these things flow. And that's because that floor, in that apostolic dimension, in that that I pulled on that prophetic dimension. So now we were able to hear the heart of God for this time, not not just in us, but that was the you spoke, the heart of God For this time, because we put a poor Thank you pass to see again, we're just doing what you're doing and and pushing me that we'll begin to do this like that when we're gonna do it, man, you know and I've been saying it for a while so that we always have these conversations. That's why you will always do this, because we do this all the time, and that's why we want to always have you on our podcast.

Dr. Cornelius 55:48

All right man.

Dr. Dowell 55:50

What's to those of you Found a word she wanted to say before we close out.

Dr. Cornelius 55:54

No, I'm good man. Just have a good one man.

Strategy and Expectations for Success

Dr. Dowell 55:56

I appreciate you Amen to those that been with us. We were so glad that you've been on this podcast. Be sure that you do look in the show notes. You should see a course that I've put together to help you Mentors and mentees. Only so much that we could cover that time together so that way you can learn Step by step how to be an effective mentor. You can learn step by step how to be an effective mentee. So you look down the show notes. You should see a link so you can avail yourself to that course.

Dr. Dowell 56:22

I believe to help you we'll be able to go in more detail. Help you come with a strategy you need to have, like you'll see a Questionnaire. So you're baby, to put something in the mentor hand to get from them what, what are you expecting from me, what you can expect from me. So we'll have those templates. So be sure you avail yourself to that. I want you never to forget, no matter where you are, what's going on in your life. God is destined you, greatness. We pray that, as you've been on the five-fold food Podcast today, that you have eight well and because you've eight well, that you will see you will excel. I believe that you're gonna live better, you're gonna do better and you're gonna continue to release the brilliance that's in you. God bless you. We look forward to you being with us on our next podcast. Thank you, you.