The Power of Right Goals and Pain of Wrong Goals

Embark on a transformative exploration of Five-Fold Ministry goal setting with Dr. Robert F. Dowell and Dr. Clinton Cornelius, as we tackle the pivotal act of aligning aspirations with divine purpose. This episode promises to equip you with the discernment needed to set meaningful goals that resonate with your personal and ministerial calling, rather than chasing after misplaced ambitions. Just as one wrong turn can lead you astray in the swamps of Florida, wrong goals can steer your ministry off course; together, we navigate through these potential pitfalls to ensure your compass points true North.

As we wade deeper into the waters of purpose and perseverance, Dr. Cornelius shares insights on the beauty of walking by faith, even when the road ahead is shrouded in mystery. We're reminded that the journey towards our goals often unveils its own rewards as we push against the walls of resistance, discovering unexpected strength and wisdom. The conversation serves as a comforting guide for those feeling adrift in their spiritual voyage, shining a beacon of hope that with each endeavor, you're crafting a legacy of resilience and faithfulness.

In a candid reflection, we confront the all-too-common missteps in pastoral leadership and the allure of the limelight, advocating for a celebration of all roles within the ministry. The episode culminates with a call to authenticity in our endeavors, stressing the importance of quality connections over a pursuit of fame. As we close this chapter, listeners are left with a profound understanding that chasing divine purpose, rather than fleeting success, is the cornerstone of a legacy that truly expands the kingdom.

Transcript

Setting Goals

Speaker 1 0:08

Welcome to the Five Fold Food Podcast hosted by Dr Robert F Dial , where ministers receive the spiritual nourishment they need to succeed . The Word of God declares and he gave some apostles and some prophets and some evangelists and some pastors and teachers for the perfecting of the saints , for the work of the ministry , for the edifying of the body of Christ . Prepare to receive revelation , wisdom and insight to empower your ministry for victory . Now let's eat .

Pastor Dowell 0:41

Praise the Lord . God bless each and every one of you . Welcome to the Five Fold Food broadcast . I'm your host , dr Robert F Dial , and I'm so delighted that you've chosen to be a part of today's podcast . I want you to remember no matter where you are viewing this podcast , be sure that you do subscribe so that you can get all of the upcoming podcasts . Whether you own Spotify , you own Apple , whatever you own YouTube , be sure that you subscribe whatever channel that you're watching on so you can get all of the podcasts . If you are watching on our YouTube podcast , if you look at our playlist , you can be able to get all the previous episodes as well . Be sure that you do look in the show notes . You'll see a transcript of today's podcast . Also , you'll see different highlights so that you can jump to different parts of the podcast . Also , we do appreciate your support . You can support on any level , as low as $5 a month to help us keep putting out great content , to help you , the Five Fold Minister , eat well so that you can excel .

Pastor Dowell 1:46

I'm excited about today's podcast . Let's get ready to get into our podcast on the day . I want to bring to our screen my good friend , dr Konellius . Dr Konellius , I'm so excited about us being able to do this again . We talked about this in 2023 that we were going to be able to do it . We thank God for blessing us to get it started . I'm glad that you're here today . How are we doing , man of God ? I'm doing well man Praise God .

Pastor Cornelius 2:17

I'm glad to be here . I'm excited about today , man , I'm excited about it .

Pastor Dowell 2:22

Man , I am too . This is the day that the Lord has made and we shall rejoice and be glad in it . It has been such a blessing having you as a part of this Five Fold Food podcast . Let's get ready to just jump right into our podcast today . For those that don't know you , go back and hear some of those previous podcast . They'll be able to get to see who you are and to know more about you .

Pastor Dowell 2:44

I want to get into our podcast on today . I want to talk about Pastor C in our podcast today . I want to talk about the power of right goals and the pain of wrong goals . We want to talk about the power of right goals and the pain of wrong goals . I think it's appropriate . It's good at any time of the year , but especially at the top of the year , the beginning of a new year . Many times at the beginning of a year , people are thinking about goals and setting goals and achieving goals . They're excited . The gyms are field now , people got stuff on their refrigerators and I hope we pray that the Five Fold Ministers that they're setting goals and things of that nature .

Pastor Dowell 3:26

I thought about Pastor C . It would be good to have a conversation about the power of right goals that we'll look at . Why is it important for us to have those right goals ? We discussed that in one of the previous episodes of the different kind of goals we had . But I want to take another little twist on it , that we'll look at the power of right goals . But really , what stood out to me ? The pain of wrong goals .

Pastor Dowell 3:50

When I think about this power , I think about there's a success that we experienced when we have right goals , but then there's some struggle that we have when we have wrong goals . We haven't thought about it , even thought about maybe entitling this podcast the success of right goals or the struggles , but I think there's a struggle we have that many ministers , as we get right into it , we dive feet first into it . I believe that many ministers Pastor C have struggles in their life and their ministry because they set wrong goals . Then also , I believe other ministers that we see that are moving forward , that are experiencing success , experiencing the power of God . I believe it's because they set right goals . You know how often I like to say God's people are destroyed for lack of knowledge and many times because ministers haven't been privy or had these kind of conversations , they might be in a struggle and not know why . As we dive into this , what comes to your mind when you think about this topic ?

Pastor Cornelius 4:51

First of all , I want to ask you a question in regards to it . Am I hearing from you that you can have wrong goals Seen ? Like me , if you're making a goal , that's a good thing . We're in the front of the year . You don't set out , you don't roll out , whatever you decide to do , what we teach short term long term goals . I'm hearing from you that there could be some goals that you struggle with or can be painful instead of powerful . Yeah yeah .

Pastor Dowell 5:28

Well , hit me , because a goal I look at it , pass to see a goal is like a destination that we have . Okay , it's where we set our GPS system to where we want to go . I think that is a good thing to know where we want to go to have a goal . You can have a wrong goal . Let's say , for instance , my goal , my intent , is that I want to come and visit you in the great state of Florida . If I set my GPS system and I set my goal to Florida , but I put in Tallahassee Florida , I put in Jacksonville Florida , it's like I'm going to Florida , man , because I'm going to see , pass to see , in Florida .

Pastor Dowell 6:12

It was good for me to have a goal , but because I had the wrong goal , I had Tallahassee , I had Jacksonville . Now it becomes painful because this is why it's painful , because I don't get to where I wanted to get to . I never get the manifestation of my desired expectation because I had the wrong goal and what happens is see many ministers never get to the expectation or the manifestation of the expectation , not because they didn't have faith , they didn't pray , they didn't believe God . Sometimes I believe that we want to submit to this podcast . They might have had the wrong goal .

Pastor Cornelius 6:56

So , so what I'm hearing , then you can miss it with the wrong goal . Yeah , yeah , you can come down to Jesse house with a horn full of awe and try to pour it in the wrong place , oh yeah , and therefore you end up missing it . You did the right thing because you went down to Jesse house , you heard God at that , there you go . So you went at the right place , but you tried to put an awe on the wrong person . Yeah , and I think some of the wrong one thing that comes to my mind is in making that wrong goal as a , as a pastor , is looking at success the same way for everyone , and it's important to see that that's not so , that success don't look the same to me as maybe success might look to you . What I'll count as success ?

Pastor Cornelius 7:55

So , since I'm looking at if I put everybody on the box , this is a success for someone , for example , they consider it successful because , let's say , by age 30 , I'm pastoring , but I know that that's my goal . I'm 25 . So in five years , no matter what , I'm going to be pastoring , okay . So so you got a term that you said five years , but when that come now , you try to force the oil on you , you try to force it . So you go for you say , to show you made that goal , because I want to make sure I'm successful . But guess what ? Now your success , as you call it , become a struggle , yeah , and painful and painful , very , very painful . So now you in something that you forth on you may happen because you set a goal , but you set the wrong goal , yeah , the timing of it , yeah , yes , I loved it .

Pastor Dowell 9:02

I love the biblical analogy and what I see from that past to see that we want to encourage and we've done it in our previous podcast we encourage that that we should set goals . But see , this is the thing we got to understand with all of our getting get understanding . That's why I'm thinking for the podcast that we can lay this thing out line on line , precept on precept hear a little there , a little , that we can systematically lay it out like pieces of a puzzle . Yes , we need goals . Yes , we need to believe for goals . We talked about before that it's not a lack of faith and we should have different goals .

Pastor Dowell 9:39

But the wisdom that I'm hearing you sing and that's why I love these conversations is that , even as the man of God , samuel , went to Jesse's house , he had a goal . It was a God ordained goal . It was a God inspired goal for him to go to Jesse's house until a North someone is house to be king . So God inspired him for the goal . He prayed about it . He was following God . But this is the wisdom I hear and you laying out that analogy that when he went to it , though he had a goal , that was still flexibility within the goal , that he still had an ear to hear . He wasn't just so locked in because he had in his mind you know , you know , these are the sons here , you know and you know , and God gonna do it . But when it's because the sons are lined up , and when he went ready to do it , he realized , because he still had a sensitivity and he had a flexibility , he wasn't just so locked in that nothing else matter . He still was open , he still was sensitive and flexible for God to adjust , for God to move . And so when he went to put it all , it's like not this one , okay , not this one . And now he run out .

Pastor Dowell 10:57

So now when he run out , instead of forcing the issue , he reevaluates . He says man , you know , I know I didn't miss God , is it ? Is it another ? Is it another way ? I need to look at this . Is there another possibility ? Is there another way ? And that's when he said , oh yeah , I have another son , and I think that happens for us , passacy , that it's okay to set those goals . If you say , by 30 , I want to be pastoring , by 40 , I want to be a full time evangelist , you know , I want to have my missionary stuff , whatever goal that we have . I want to have this , this and this done . I think it's okay to have those goals , but I think whether pitfall comes in when there's no flexibility and no sensitivity , and now we're so locked in that we make it happen no matter than what and we pour oil in wrong places .

Pastor Cornelius 11:56

But what I'm also hearing to the doc down sometime we locked in on the wrong thing , because what we do we lock in on other people if we ain't careful . We seen what Pastor Joe down the street was doing by the time he was 30 . So you compare , so that becomes a wrong goal , because your goal become not in competition with Pastor Joe , but my goal become I want what Pastor Joe have , so I set my goal . So if you ain't careful , you talk to Pastor Joe . Pastor Joe tell you he did ABC and D . So you find yourself trying to do the same thing like Pastor Joe and set goals like that and you don't reach it because see , that was for Pastor Joe . And I think that's another area where we miss it at . Man , that's a joke . We need to lock in . I agree , sometimes we get locked in , like you say , and we need to still stay sensitive to year . But I got our like also insert need to make sure you locking in at the right place , mmm . Wait , wait , wait , wait , wait , where you really focusing in at . If my folks will become on Jess , on On jet past the Joe and I passed the Joe did this thing . That can become a wrong goal for me , man . Now let's if we can stand that same vein .

Pastor Cornelius 13:29

You know , if we go about the jet science and pull out David and let's take David the saw , whatever David was gonna go , fit , kill a junior and he put on saw . Say , take on and put on my armor . It didn't fit . It didn't fit Davis . I came , he could even walk in it . It didn't fit him . His goal was the goal . I need to go and my goal is to defeat this fellow's being but . But I came where what saw can only wear , to go to battle . I'd accomplish that . So if you were to try to wear that there and I think that's what happens sometimes , these goals , we said when we look at others we're trying to wear their armor and Therefore we miss it , now it becomes painful .

Pastor Dowell 14:20

So good , let's take some key takeaways and I pray you ministers are picking up what the man of God just put down , ones you said earlier . Sometime we said a wrong goal , wrong goal , when we don't understand that success looks different on everybody . And so what happened is if , when we look at another prophet , there's other apostle , this evangelist , this other teacher , whatever five-fold gifts were looking at other pastor and we look at them the way success and look on them , it's not the way success to look on you . And if we don't realize that , then they're in result , you try to copy that , you try to count Of , you really kind of fit that because that was their goal , but that might not be the right goal for you , because success might not look like that in terms of , let's say , if you talking past or you're , well , they had this building , they had this facility , they had this , this prophet got this tribe , this Organization , this one got this Attentive thing and they go to these churches and they go around .

Pastor Dowell 15:29

I think what happened is when we don't realize that We'll set wrong goals and they become painful , see , because we're chasing after something that we were never supposed to have and Now we're frustrated , as our bishop would say , disillusion hard to get along with . Why ? Because we feel like failures , we feel subpar , we feel inadequate , because we are reaching for goals that we shouldn't have never reached for . And so this is why I think it has to be , we have to all it has to be a prayer and sensitivity , that we can be inspired by others , we can learn from others , but we have to make sure that we lock in and we have the goals , the God ordained goals , how God wants us to Accomplish those things , and I think that's what that comes in , because we that's when it becomes painful and unsuccessful in our lives .

Power and Purpose of Goals

Pastor Cornelius 16:26

I can see that . I can see that and I can also . On the other side of that is that you can be young and hungry , and because I'm young , I'm home , I'm hungry , I'm eager , and Now I'm being told I need to put goals there , but never really told there's difference between good goals , I bad goals , right and wrong goals . So what end up happening ? From my hunger , I'm just grinding man , that's all . I'm the . I'm just trying to get it , get it done . And so I got the and I put these goals there .

Pastor Cornelius 17:03

But later on it become painful and a struggle that leads to my frustration and even I get fadder . Now I'm easily pushed away . I'm eating because I'm frustrated and I become fearful that I'm never gonna do it . But but you have to ask yourself was this a right around goal for me ? Yes , it was a goal , but wasn't a right around goal . So what I asked you ? Down down , I read it in your book . You said there's a difference between preaching and teaching . And so now we're teaching . So I asked you the question how do I know when it's the right around goal ? Teach me okay .

Pastor Dowell 17:48

And so what you ? You have to walk it out , you have to see it out , you have to pray it out , that's good . You have to think it out , then the answer will come about . You got to pray it out , you got to walk it out , you got to see it out , you got to think about , then the right answer will come about , meaning that as you go It'll come to you . If it was a right around goal because this is what happens , I believe .

Pastor Dowell 18:19

I see that God allows us to set goals . The Bible says that a man's heart Devises its way , that his heart , not God , a man's heart Devises his way , but it's the Lord that orders his steps . So , weak in our heart , god allows us to set goals and we use our mind and our imagination and we have goals . And God doesn't always , he don't always put a red light on the goals . And so what happens is you set a goal because God said your heart is devising away , but I'm gonna order your steps , because the good steps of a good man are ordered by the Lord .

Pastor Dowell 18:58

So , as you're stepping toward what you planned out , what you thought out , as you're going to it , that mean you're walking it out past to see , you're praying it out as you go to it . Sometime you'll come to roadblocks . Sometimes you'll come to mountains , and sometimes God to tell you speak to those mountains and mountains move . Sometimes you come to giants , you'll slay those giants , but then there'll be sometime you'll come to some places like with Samuel . You'll come to some places like with David and I try this armor on . You come to some places where now , like when you're getting ready , like Abraham , to do what you felt , god and say okay , stay your hand . In other words , as you're walking it out , as you're sensitive To the direction of God and the flexibility sometime God to change some things , meaning that what I found .

Pastor Dowell 19:46

I found this to be true . Past to see , as you're walking it out and you're praying about There'll be some adjustment toward the goal and you say , well , why did God allow me to go to us it then , if he gonna adjust it ? Because what goals do ? This is the power of goals . They stretch us , they expand us , they bring the best out of us that caused us to reach out full potential . So I've seen in my own life that God has allowed me to have some goals , because this is the key . The goal Is not always about reaching the goal . Yeah , mm-hmm , mm-hmm . The goal is Not always about achieving the goal .

Pastor Cornelius 20:30

So so am I hearing .

The Process of Pursuing Goals

Pastor Cornelius 20:32

I'm hearing . Then it's about working you on your way . Why you on your way in your walk ? Now , you can't send the word walk . You kept saying walk . So what came to me was we walked by faith , so we have to trust him Because of the scripture came to mind from progress , trust in the Lord and all that crystal , all our heart . Amen . Lean , not because you said we need knowledge , but it says lean out until that own understanding . If you don't get that down in you while you're walking towards the goal , you think it's all about the goal and not by him developing you as you go to the goal .

Pastor Dowell 21:14

Bingo , yachty whoo , there it is , I see .

Pastor Cornelius 21:22

Yes , that's it . That's why sometimes he has a goal for you . He always he has a goal where you're trying to get you at . He don't always show you the way you're gonna go , because if he showed you everything step by step down , some of us are never start out . We're never seven gold . Well , that better give you some Bible now .

Pastor Dowell 21:44

The .

Pastor Cornelius 21:44

Israelites . He went through Moses . He told Moses to tell him that was going through to the promised land . He was gonna take them go . Go that calf , let my people go . He was gonna take them to the promised land . But now , when you look at that , no way in there . Did he ever tell him that they was gonna end up having to go through a red sea . They gonna end up in a willingness to get there . Cause if you had told them that in the beginning the men are gonna never left Israel , they would have stayed there .

Pastor Dowell 22:16

The Bible never seen war and did the Bible say that yeah ?

Pastor Cornelius 22:19

they saw war . The Bible said that . So he decided to take them , not the shortcut but the long way around , because they weren't ready , they weren't ready . So it's sometimes you don't give us all the details . It's so much that we learn along the way . That's why we got the prayer out , like you said , walking through all of this shape place along the way .

Pastor Dowell 22:45

And that's when you , when you learn , that's how you know if it's a right or wrong goal , meaning that because now it necessarily might have been a wrong , it's a wrong goal . Many times , if you stay with that goal , see , initially it wasn't the right goal , it wasn't the wrong goal . But when you stay with it now it's no longer because it was a then goal but not a now goal .

Pastor Cornelius 23:06

Woo , that's good , see it was a then goal .

Pastor Dowell 23:10

Why ? Because God allowed you . He didn't put a green light on you . You said well , why didn't he do that ? The man of God just said it . Because it's a part of the process . See , sometimes God has an overarching goal , he has a main goal and what you have is a sub goal , but God don't always show you the overarching goal . So he said go ahead , go for that , go ahead , go for that , go ahead and do that . But as you go and do what you're trying to do , your heart devising away . But I'm gonna order you a step . I got a bigger goal , I got something else , and that's when they're walking it out and praying .

Pastor Dowell 23:45

And then God began you give you lessons . It's like the story path to see of God give a man the goal . He allowed him to have a goal , to push the wall . And the man said like I gotta go . I'm gonna push this wall because I need this wall to be 10 feet somewhere else , and I need to push it because I need to expand . I need these 10 feet to expand . So I'm gonna push this wall , metaphorically or whatever you're trying to move out of your way , whatever you're trying to accomplish to allow more of God for you to do . And so God said okay , do it . Now you're pushing the wall and you set that goal and in six weeks I'm gonna push this wall , whether it physically , whether with equipment , but I'm moving this wall . So you begin , the man began to move the wall past the sea . He's pushing it physically or , if it's not physically , he's bringing in the people , the constructors , and they're gonna tie down the wall and they're doing it . And then now you get to it and the wall not moving , the people saying we're trying to break it down , but there's no supporting beams , we can't do what you . So you're going through all of this .

Pastor Dowell 24:55

And when he's pushing it , you know the story past the sea , as he's pushing it , because , as he began to consider God , look back to God , hear God again , remain flexible and say okay , god , I know I didn't , I know I don't think I missed you in pushing the wall , but can you give me some insight ? With all of my getting , let me get a deeper understanding , let me pray about this thing again . And as you see , god , now he begins to see , and the wisdom of God said yeah , I wanted you to push the wall . Now I want you to look at your calf muscles . Look at your calf muscles are getting strong . Look at your arm muscles that you was pushing . Look , look , look at all of the contacts that you have now .

Pastor Dowell 25:37

When you was trying to move it , you seen them architecture , those people you learn about low bearing walls and stuff like that . Look at all that you learn . Now I'm gonna use all of that because I wanted you to learn these lessons . I wanted you to meet these people . I wanted you to get this development because it was bigger than just moving the wall . I got something bigger . I had a bigger goal . So I allowed you to pursue that goal , but I had a bigger goal and I got a word for those listening to this podcast today , pastor C , many of them have felt pain .

Power of Goals for Success

Pastor Dowell 26:13

They have felt struggle because they weren't willing to reevaluate . I want some of them to know that they're right . Well , god wants them to be . They just never had perspective because there was a lesson in what they were supposed to learn . Pastor C , that was a growth , that was a pro .

Pastor Dowell 26:30

God was taking them through the process for success , but because they looked at it the wrong way , they evaluated it , that I didn't reach my goal .

Pastor Dowell 26:39

They see themselves as a failure . They see themselves as not being able to do it . I want you to know that you have what it takes . You got the right stuff . You just looked at it the wrong way because you didn't reevaluate it . No , you didn't reach your goal , but if you look back and you learn the lessons that God wanted you to learn , you see that some oil and what you went through . If you pick up those lessons and I pray , pastor C , that God give them wisdom , even as I speak , to look back at places of their life that they looked at as failures , as places that they looked at as defeat that the Holy Ghost that we serve will give these five fold ministers wisdom to see within the ashes of what they thought was defeat was victory , pastor C , and I know if y'all look at your life and my life , what others may have looked at as ashes of defeat , they became places of victory because we reevaluated , we looked at that thing again . Am I making sense , pastor C ?

Pastor Cornelius 27:39

Yeah , and the last statement you just made is what I've been to say . The key is you got to do it again , man . You reevaluate and do it again . You got to become determined not to give up and understand . It's all a part of the process and the process let's call it like it is man .

Pastor Cornelius 27:55

The process is not easy and it don't come easy . It's a process process . So , as you go through it , it's not easy , but you got to go again . The key is you got to go again , man , I call it . You got to dip . You got to dip again . You got to go down again and each time understand each dip . There's an intention there . God intended for you to do that because God got something better for you and he's gonna pull you out of that dip . He's gonna pull you up out of it . But you got to dip again . You got to dip again . Come on , naiman , go down there again . My goal was to be watched , but , oh , but the first dip don't get the job done . Sometime you have to go again . It's a process , man , surprise .

Pastor Dowell 28:42

And let me hit this . It's just hit me . We talk about the power of right goals . It's just dawn to me I want to just we just kind of talking and conversating and we play , they can pick it up , but face style . When I think about this right goals , past the seed of power of it , it just hit me that when we have right goals whether it's to we talked before to whether schooling I don't know if we mentioned it before , but it could be to do that music CD you five-fold , but you have singing ability , to write the book , to do the course that you have to start your mastermind , to start your seminar , your revival , whatever it is the goals that you set that I want to do .

Pastor Dowell 29:24

This is the power of right goals . When you set them , they expand , they broaden you , but what they do ? They cause you and they prevent you from missing moments in your life , some people , because they hadn't had a goal past the seed . When that time comes , when the moment comes , they're trying to get ready when they should have already been ready . They're trying to prepare when they should have already had the material that they needed . They should have already had the bio done , they should have already had the book done . They should have already had the sermons for the revival , that one day doors for revival going to open , I'm going to be ready . They should have already had stuff ready . So now what they're doing ? Because they didn't have goal . They're trying to get ready , but when you are ready , when the moment comes , you can seize the moment when the moment door and I'm speaking to somebody past the seed that at the beginning of this year , that's why they need to set those goals that when those doors open , they're ready to walk through the door . That's why you need those right goals , because when the door open , you have those things that you're supposed to have birthed out .

Pastor Dowell 30:34

I believe that ministers should birth out , product birth out sermons , birth out . Thank God for listening to my podcast , but maybe God got a podcast in you , maybe it's not a podcast , see . That's why see , this is my goal may not be your goal . That's why you have to pray about it , see , because what looked like success on me don't look like success on you . What you might have something , but you might have a Facebook live that you do like one of our members that we got one member that she does a Facebook live . She called it . You know , wake Up Wednesdays . You know , dr Dineet Davis , a wake up . You know it's a powerful podcast , a powerful . It's just a live stream .

Pastor Dowell 31:14

But whatever it is that you're supposed to birth out , that you do , that One of our other members she do a word of encouragement that she does for Kingdom Warriors , apostle Cofield . See , whatever you do , pastor C , we have to birth it out . Why ? Because then you'll be ready . That's the power . So when we have the right go , we'll be able to seize moments . When they come , pastor C , we'll be able to soar and fly in them . Moments because when our time come , we're not getting ready , but we are all ready , ready .

Pastor Cornelius 31:47

Yeah , so when you say that power , then what comes to mind , that first part is that is the prepare , the preparation , the preparation . I just shared that with my congregation . On Sunday , when David went to fight Goliath , he picked up five smooth stones , five , not just one , five , but he only used one . He only used one , but I felt like he was prepared . If I missed , I got a submiss in the bike , so he was prepared for it . And that's what I hear you saying .

Pastor Cornelius 32:21

What the goals do and the power of the right goals is you get prepared , it prepares you . Then you say you get birth to it . You know what I heard with the birth , that there's an overflow . Birth is something that you get in you and then , when it's time , the birth , all the birth is is an overflow . You talk about messages , sermons , when you get them down in you , that preparation period , when it's time the other word I heard in that you walk on the stage . When it's time , you end up walking on the stage now .

Pastor Cornelius 32:51

So what you're doing backstage before the curtains open , now I'm ready to walk on stage and then now I'm ready to engage in , now I can engage in where I'm supposed to be at and what that helped me do is it gives my ego by stage . Helped me to get my ego together , because if you enter in and your ego is in the problem , you're never getting the right place , man , you'll never get there and produce what you need to produce . So now I walk there and now I engage in where I'm supposed to be at . And guess what ? Now , because it was a good goal , I mean that hour I'm in the right place .

Pastor Cornelius 33:30

That's the power . It put me in the right position , put me in the right place . But that place is not your ending place . When you're getting the right place now , you're getting a position where he can elevate you even further . All come from the power of that goal . You prepare yourself , you got yourself full so you can have an overflow . You walk there , you engage in where I'm supposed to be at and now I'm in the right place and I'm in the right position for him to elevate me to my next stage .

Pastor Dowell 34:00

Oh , man , I almost feel like man , I feel like running in this place , but I just see what you talk about . Man , you'll be prepared because those right goals cause you to have the preparation that you need to succeed . And because you don't have the goal , you don't have the preparation that you need to succeed . And so that's what that goal does . It calls you to have that preparation that you need to succeed . Man , man , that's good stuff . Man , that's good . That's good , that is dead , that is dead , that is dead . Man , I'm just chewing on that even now . Man , that is good . There's so many myths what they have , because they never get the preparation behind the scene .

Pastor Cornelius 34:44

Yes , yes , and that's what we call them . For these five falls now , this listening tools , the importance of getting it together behind the scene , backstage , before the curtain . Because the other thing I see they're the shifting . You know how they shift from scene to scene , know how they move . Sometimes they move the whole stage and I feel like the Lord has taken us to a shifting . Things are shifting , even from what happened with COVID . Things are shifting , the stage is moving , but you know what ? Some folks are not in position because they didn't have the goals . They didn't have the right goals , man , so they didn't do the right preparation . So now , when the shift happened , if everything began to evolve in the shift , you miss out because you had the wrong goal . Your goal was I need to hurry up and get from behind these curtains . I've got to get up front . I need to get up front . It's not time now . They're the shifting , they're the moving . When is your time ?

Pastor Dowell 35:49

Be ready for your entry and let me say this see , but that's so good . I want to hit this when you're talking about that behind the stage and the scene , listen , because you have right goals , you pursue those goals . You're flexible with those goals . When your time comes , the lights won't be too big when the lights come on , it's good .

Pastor Cornelius 36:09

The lights won't be too bright .

Pastor Dowell 36:10

If you would , the stage won't be too big , the moment won't be too big . Many people fumble the moment that they're overwhelmed . Now the door open , now you're overwhelmed . What do you mean , preacher ? Now you , because you hadn't did the preparation . Let's talk about some right goals Working on your preaching skills , working on your teaching skill , working on your prophetic skills , working on your all of your skills , the kingdom , business skills . All these things are when doors open . Because you're not ready , you fumble the moment . And now you're intimidated by other people . Now you're on stages trying to be like other folk . Now you're on stages not knowing how to be your authentic self because you , you never had the right goals . So now , now the now , the stage is too big for you . Now you , you're . Now you're trying to be something that you're not , because you didn't do the work behind the scene , because you don't have the right goals of development . You don't have the right goals of now . You don't , you don't have your products when you had to go . That's why you know I push it . See , I push birthed out .

Pastor Dowell 37:20

I believe within every preacher should be at least one book Every preacher . There's at least one . You might not have five , 10 , 15 , 20 , but I believe , because every preacher , I believe , has a message that God has given them to deliver to the body of Christ . A theme , a thrust of ministry , a mantle and a Norton , something , a piece of the puzzle , that that he articulates or she articulate , and whatever that is , it comes out in different ways , or whatever that primary , that , that that sweet spot for that minister , that that should be in a book . Everybody got at least one , at least one .

Pastor Dowell 38:09

And so when doors open , when things happen , because you're not ready , you don't have the school , you don't have your book , you don't have your materials , you're not playing for . And now what you're doing ? You're trying to be like other folk instead of being you . Now you're . Now you're caught up in the , you're caught up with personality . You get caught up with foolishness because you didn't learn the stuff behind the scene . Now you impressed with man . Oh God , let's get into this . But I see , before we run out of time on the podcast , that's so good .

Right Goals and Wrong Goals

Pastor Dowell 38:40

So those are some things . Let's throw out some things real quick . And I want to hit those wrong goals . Let's hit wrong goal , but let's hit right goals . Then Right goals . I believe , right goals . That's why I said I believe again , some of this might be repetitive , because I want to encourage you all that that you begin to follow the right goals for you , those right goals for you , and that's why you'll know as you go to it and you float to it . But I believe in the book , I believe in the school , I believe in working on your preaching skills , your teaching skills and all those things . I think those are goal , devotion , goal . What do you think are some right goals to have ?

Pastor Cornelius 39:13

You said it real quickly then . What hit me , though , you have to work on devotional goals because you want to work on you . You need goals where you work on you , where you work on you and then we don't have to talk about now is , I think it's goals for self care , so that , as you are moving on the vacation goals , yeah , so you don't let it kill you . I asked ministry to kill you If you don't know how to put some self care goals in there . Now , another thing that we look at , that we say but that ain't really keen of me just said preaching and all . Also , I believe you need to work on your family . If you married , you need to work on your marriage . Those should be goals . I think you should have goals for your marriage . That's the right goal . I need to work on that because I'm telling you , when you come from behind the stage and you get up front , that's when the devil coming too strong , and he's going to always take you in an area that's closest to you . He's going to always attack in that area . So you need to be prepared for this with when you get out front there Now , and who I thought about with this and how it turned , what you've been dealing with with mentoring .

Pastor Cornelius 40:24

Also , what happened on the bike side of the desert is where Moses went through the process . He learned who he was and who was with him on the bike side of the desert Before he ever went up front with Pharaoh . He learned about that rod that he had in his hand , what the Lord showed him and who was with him . And then have all the mentoring part come in . The Lord asked him to go do some emotional based that I'm capable . He had all these excuses . He said take your brother Aaron . He didn't speak on your behalf .

Pastor Cornelius 40:56

So if you really going to move and go somewhere , oftentimes God put somebody else there to help you to get where you're going . But you got to be open for a mentor . You got to be open for help . So I think all these are right goals . You need to have a goal where Lord I need to go by picking a mentor , no matter they help me . I need to go with my preaching for praying for that with my , for my marriage , my family . All of these are goals , what I call right goals , what you need to work on it . In a nutshell , work on your game , work on your game , work on your craft , what you , what you give that work on your craft ?

Pastor Dowell 41:38

See what you get to . That . That's good A goal to work on it . You might need a goal to work on it . You find out you might need a coach . You might need a ministry mentor , coach , somebody help coach you . You're you're a goal . It could , it could be a goal .

Pastor Dowell 41:53

Your digital game . We're in a digital age now . So you , you , you got to have to work on . You might have to work up your , your own your game in in digital and learning zoom , learn how to use some of these social media platforms or hiring somebody to do it for you . If you can't afford to hire somebody to do it for you , then that means you might have to work on your game of being able to do stuff in a digital format , how to be able to be a part of it .

Pastor Dowell 42:20

Why are you getting left behind ? You'll still be stopping at pay phones to make a call . That's what your ministry will be like . What do we need to pull off ? I need to stop and call and check my answer machine , check your answer machine and you got to pull up to a pay phone . You never upgrade it . So it might be a goal to upgrade to technology . It might be a goal into moving all that and branding , learning them term when you hear these terms of branding and what is all of this in ebooks and podcasts and all of this stuff . Those are some things to consider .

Pastor Dowell 42:55

May not be a goal , but I think it's some things to conversation that we we need to have evangelistic goals . You know what I mean Going beyond our four borders , outside the four walls of our congregation , outside of our city , you go . You go to Haiti before , in different places like that in Africa . You go to Jamaica on an ongoing basis . See what was evangelistic in in going to the nations , to one person . That might be different . We have friends , man , they go . They go in the Africa . We have people that you support . It might not you , some places you go and we go past the scene you go , but then the other places that you so , so others can go , yeah , but still it's still a kingdom expansion goal that that we're helping think apostetically . So those are some right goals . I think that we need to give them what I want to turn the page now .

Pastor Dowell 43:50

We talk about paying the wrong goal because you hit it and I want to hit this before we leave . You set a goal . A wrong goal is that goal might be . I want to just be on the stage . I think a wrong goal . Now it's all relevant . What's the wrong goal ? Because what make the goal wrong ? Past the scene is one of the .

Pastor Dowell 44:08

If our goal is to try to be like somebody else , to try to accomplish what somebody else accomplished Initially , we're barking up the wrong tree because we don't all have the same destiny . We don't start from the same place , we don't have the same calling , so you immediately set yourself up for failure when you try to accomplish what you see other people accomplish . So I think that way but it could be some new answers if it's a right or wrong goal , because sometimes it depends , because God , sometimes I let you pursue a goal so that you can learn the lesson . You won't reach the goal because it wasn't about the goal , but it was the lesson that you learn . For instance , let's say I think it's a wrong goal If your only goal is just like I want to be up front to preach , I want to teach , I want to just do that , okay , so that's just some . I said to go like that .

Pastor Dowell 44:54

I think that's the wrong goal .

Pastor Dowell 44:55

I think that should be a goal .

Pastor Dowell 44:56

Nothing wrong with that being a goal ?

Pastor Dowell 44:58

That man , I want to preach and teach . So if that's a goal , now you want to prepare for that goal . See , I want to prepare for it . But I think it become a wrong goal if that's your primary and only goal and you're so focused on that that now , because you don't preach and teach now , you lose the victory . It's like a player on the team because things not going nowhere , they forget about the whole rest of the team .

Pastor Dowell 45:22

And I think that's when it become a wrong goal .

Pastor Dowell 45:24

Because sometimes you might have a goal like I want to preach and teach and I want to do it for and I don't think there's wrong to be inspiring them want to do those things , man , I want to go to the nations . Man , I want to teach on big platforms , I want to go speak . I don't think that's the innately wrong with that . But I think if that's the primary and the only and you're locked in on that , you can miss the bigger picture . Because if that's your goal and you're pursuing that and you're preparing yourself , you're positioning yourself , you're learning the lessons , because many times what you'll find out dumb doors won't open and God is showing you other things before those doors open . So when the doors open , you appreciate them and you'll be ready for them . What do you say with that ? But I think that's how it become a wrong goal , when it's only that goal and now you don't learn the lesson . Because he was trying to say , hey , it's more than just about preaching , because now you realize there's more than ministry . But you didn't learn those things .

Pastor Cornelius 46:22

When that's your only goal and you haven't learned other things . You want to get on the stage , but you don't stay on the stage .

Pastor Dowell 46:29

Oh man , you hit it . See , that's it . That's it again , cause this way hit me .

Pastor Cornelius 46:33

Yeah .

Pastor Dowell 46:33

I love the way you put it there . What make it a wrong goal ?

Pastor Cornelius 46:36

Well , yes , if it's your primary or your only goal , our only goal . So now you on the stage , but you don't get to stay on the stage because you didn't do the . You didn't have the right goals about the preparation , about going through the process of walking . All you had in mind is I'm going to either either they're going to open up these curtains , they don't open up quick enough , I'm going to open them up myself , I'm going to tell them down because I'm going to get on that stage , because that's your goal . So , at whatever cost it is and that's why I brought up about family , other things If that become your only goal , at whatever cost it is , you do that because you want to be there , and that's what makes it a wrong goal down , and then you don't get to stay there . You don't get to stay there .

Pastor Cornelius 47:22

As I bitch about it and it's instance . I mean you want it quick , you didn't go through the shit right . You don't get to stay , you don't get something that's not maintainable .

Pastor Dowell 47:33

And let me tell you why . Because what happens is you don't have enough oil , because those that are on the stage realizes more than stage . You don't learn . You didn't learn how to leave yes , you didn't . You didn't . You don't value serving , you don't value the people who serve you , who in the sound booth , who ? Who in the green room , the usher , so you don't stay there . And then now people who are there on the stage that went through the process , learn the lessons of the process . They can recognize someone who you think like you think it's all about being up here . You don't treat people right , you don't . You know , you , you , you know you don't appreciate the sacrifices of people .

Pastor Dowell 48:16

Why and you learn many other lessons , other things you don't know how to do Cause you thought it was all your preachers . So now you're not valuable to your local church , if it's your local church . You don't know how to lead . You don't know how to communicate . You don't know how to work or alter . You don't know how to do a lot of things . Why ? Cause you just focus on preaching and teaching . Now you're a pastor ring , let's say you the pastor . Now you still can't lead . So you , you miss so many other lessons . Don't know how to really serve Cause all you was locked into preaching and teaching . You miss so many other things .

Pastor Cornelius 48:48

See , you bring on a lot of pain and if we give it to my pain , you bring on a lot of pain to yourself . A lot of pain , a lot of struggle and pains come . Let's hit this one .

Pastor Dowell 48:59

Let's hit this one Wrong goal Just to be a senior pastor . I've seen and I want you to give me your take on this Cause this is the conversations that we have and we're just opening up . I think it's a wrong goal Not just to have a goal to be . I don't think it should be a goal . I think it has to be a calling , what God called us to do . But I see where it becomes a wrong goal .

Common Mistakes in Pursuing Pastoral Leadership

Pastor Dowell 49:23

Not that people have a desire to be a senior pastor , but because they lock in on that . Well , the Bible said he give us apostles , prophets , pastors . He didn't . I didn't see senior in there , nowhere . I didn't see chief in there , nowhere . And so what happened is we can get locked in to being senior pastor , that it could be that God called you to pastor , but that don't mean you have to be the lead pastor , you have to be the primary pastor . So what make that a wrong goal ? And we know it , that many places and people are struggling because you should have been . You are a number one , number two , yes , you will be in better being in the church where you the number two pastor . But now , because you , because you got so locked in , because you had a call to pastor because you didn't get the training , the process . You got so locked into that that all you can see I'm being senior pastor that you missed that . God know he called you to be a pastor and you would have been a great number two . You could have built a good work somewhere else being a great number two , but now you want to be number one because that became your goal . So I think that's the whole senior pastor thing .

Pastor Dowell 50:40

Pastor C can become a wrong goal . You know , because you , you , you , you , you , you barked into that and , the truth be told , we know , by being senior pastors I'm not sure what that's easy for you to say you're a senior pastor . I see , you know I'm . Anytime I've entertained in my own mind and thought about it that if I wouldn't call to be a senior pastor , you know how , sometimes , how much easier it would be , yes , how much more sweet . You see , when you , when you're not the , when you're not the number one person , you don't carry the weight of everything . It's kind of like you can show up , do your part and go , but when you're number one , that's a weight , that's a strain . There's a whole thing that come with that that people don't really know what they're getting themselves into , because it'll break you if you're not called to . But what do you say on that ? Because I think that could be a wrong goal .

Pastor Cornelius 51:29

One thing I say I agree with you . That could be a wrong goal , but I think we created the monster . And when I say we , I think the local church , are a lack of doing what you're doing right now . We don't talk about the five fold and enough . So folks begin to think that was the only calling was you haven't arrived , you haven't been successful . If you don't have your own quote , unquote own church , right . If you have your own church quote , unquote right , you haven't arrived , right .

Pastor Dowell 52:04

So I think that because we get the pastors , get the anniversaries in the pastors day and flowers and all that right . We don't do that for prophets and teachers , so we don't celebrate the oh my God . So sometimes the other five fold ministry gifts are not celebrated as much as the pastor .

Pastor Cornelius 52:24

Right . So because of that , I think , cause of a lack of training , teaching , knowledge of it . So that's why a lot of people go towards that Cause . Once again it seemed to be the quarter bike . That's the quarter bike position .

Pastor Cornelius 52:39

I want to play quarter bike , you know I , you know I . I want to be in the light and , like you said , is they don't know what happened off in town . When the lights are turned off , the lights are turned off . What ? What you battle with , what you , what you carry with what , what you know what you carry with the Indian also , I think we have ignored that .

Pastor Cornelius 53:03

The Lord said the greatest one among you is the one is willing to serve . And what I believe happened is that if , if you really call to it , if you really call to be a , let's say , a senior pastor , not just a senior , if you're called to it , I think you serve your way into it . And that's my take . I think you serve your way into it . And and and and how would you mean if I see I become the best number two ? And that's what I did for years . I , I , I , I was just number two , but I wasn't going to let nobody beat me at being number two , I knew I was called to be a pastor .

Pastor Cornelius 53:45

So what I ? What I grabbed hold to , not a senior pastor , but I was called to serve people and to serve my man of God , and that's what I did . And so from serving , I feel like you serve your way into it , and now I got a better appreciation for how to communicate with people like you were sharing that . I learned importance of relationships , how important relationships is , establishing relationships , and I learned importance of how to pull out the best and other people around me and those are the ones that helped me be better at what I do , cause I pulled out . I just had to meet with one of , with one of my ministers , um , yesterday , and I shared with her hey , you , you , you , you , you , you one of my jewels . I said when I first met you . I told him I called , I called my best friend , I told Dr Down , I got me a jewel here , you know , and it's so much I feel like I'm called to pull that out .

Pastor Dowell 54:44

But see , look , see , this is the thing you said in serving so much you learned in that serving and because that's not the ultimate goal , and I wanted to say in that , when you celebrate them , that we have to be sure that we as a body , that we have to celebrate those other gifts , cause that's why you said you can create that climate where it seems like being senior is that's it Kind of like in football . It's football . All the other people know that it ain't about just being the head coach , that you , you want to be a part of a successful team or winning team , that you have many people who are capable of being a head coach , warhead coaches , but they realize we can do better if I'm a coordinator on this team , and then good coaches realize the value of the people that they have . That's why we have to celebrate all of our gifts past the seed and not just make it seem like the pastoral gift is the primary gift . We'll have to deal deeper than that , cause that's a whole another podcast and that whole senior past the same . Let me hear another one and you can jump in here . I'm here , this . I think a wrong goal is sometimes to be full time , just to quote unquote full time meaning that I don't know how much past the seed in this generation and we'll have a conversation . We've got to get ready , land the plane here in a few . I don't know if it's different in this generation and in knowing the 2020s , as it were maybe in the 80s and 90s , but I know , at one time , a ministry .

Pastor Dowell 56:15

One of the biggest goal was that I've seen people fault and make a mistake that their goal was that I want to be quote unquote full time . What do you mean ? Full time Meaning that my primary job and source of income come from what I do for God , whether it's , you know , the senior pastor of a church or our tenor ministry , you know evangelistic ministry , where I make all my money off being on the road or being a church . I don't work a quote unquote secular job , and I'm not saying that . I'm not saying that goal here , this , and I hope you're here in our heart . We're not saying these things in and of themselves are wrong , but we're saying we don't have the flexibility , the sensitivity and to know where God has you on that and not copying others .

Pastor Dowell 56:59

I think that's when it becomes wrong , because I've seen people with that full time thing past , see lead good jobs in the name of walking by faith . Their family struggle , there's no retirement , there's no health care . They become a burden for the ministries that they serve . So instead of the ministry growing whether it's the evangelistic ministry or that church that they're pastor , because they're so busy trying to accommodate and take care of the man of God , in that they never grow , they never flourish . And I'm not saying that they shouldn't take care of them , but I think the timing you said that is important too fast to see . Sometimes it's the timing of it because you don't have the balance of it . You did it too soon , too quickly , and maybe you should have stayed where you were , maybe in that job .

Pastor Dowell 57:51

I've seen people make these mistakes and that's why I think I want to have this conversation where it's like you left a career because you heard somebody else testify . I was a doctor , I was a lawyer . You know we have Bill Winston's testimony . I was an airplane pilot . We hear other people . I was a lawyer and I walked away from all of it .

Pastor Dowell 58:07

Let's give them what we was . Let's give them game , ministry game , and we don't mean in a bad way . That's what five full food about when you hear people giving these testimonies and man of God , they're saying they left jobs and they left lawyer . They're telling truth , they're not . They're not playing games .

Ministry Struggles and Importance of Mentors

Pastor Dowell 58:25

But what happens is you're getting an abbreviated version , you're not getting all the details of the story and sometimes when you get the details of the story , you find out they had a retirement , they had saved and they had like a year or two worth of savings so that they could go . The ministry that they was at was already at a certain point . They had money that they made by consulting , that they were still able to make money on the side . There's details past the seat that I think sometimes evangelists and ministers and people don't know , and they do it . Am I helping the people pass the seat Because I think we don't have these conversations and they don't know the backstory and they jump off too soon and they missed them all .

Pastor Cornelius 59:10

Yeah , you're helping the people and everything you said is so true and powerful that do occur . But you asked the question . You say you feel like it was more like that maybe in the 80s than it is now .

Pastor Dowell 59:24

I do think it's just , I'm just wondering , I'm just thinking out loud .

Pastor Cornelius 59:28

But I do think it's still just there , but it's in a different form . It's in a different way now , because now it's more in the form of almost . When we use the term I need to be an entrepreneur , you hit it .

Pastor Dowell 59:41

Man , we thank you much alike . See , we thank you much alike , man .

Pastor Cornelius 59:47

So I ain't feeling to be working for nobody . I could work for myself . That type of thing . I call it that counting the cost , and you see that .

Pastor Dowell 59:57

I see that in just the natural , with believers and the entrepreneur thing . Is that the same thing then in ministry too ? That ministry , ministry minded people have that same mindset .

Pastor Cornelius 1:00:06

Yeah , I do think that's it , because once again , some of them go become to be like quote unquote who they consider the super stars and how they do it and they do it .

Pastor Cornelius 1:00:21

I don't boss . Yeah , if you got a job , man , that's slowing you down . So my question become is what ? Where you'll work at ? You know , I know of guys and not a put down maybe five , six , maybe five or six members , 10 , 20 members and they saying no , I noticed what I'm called to do , but the timing , like you said earlier , I so strongly believe in the time , that being your only source of income , the only source , and now it becomes a strain and a pool on that group of people that you're leading to , normally , what happened ? They walk away , you know .

Pastor Cornelius 1:01:09

So all of that is that that's the struggle , man , and I think people need to , they need to recognize it and realize it . So , yeah , yes that that's wrong . That is more full time . It's more than about me not having to work for anybody . It's more , once again , if you set right goals . I'll put it this way If you count the call , biblically , the word of God says that that you count the call unless somebody come and laugh at you and they laugh at you because you didn't finish the course . Right , what I said earlier , you couldn't stay on the stage because you didn't count the cost and oftentimes another problem become because you want to be successful , you force it . So you find yourself sometimes compromising and stuff , because you want to make this thing work at whatever cost it needs to work , so people could see I'm full time .

Pastor Dowell 1:02:13

And that's not the marker of success , that some of the most effective churches and ministries are led by by vocational pastors , that they work a job . But if you don't think it , you could . Many can feel less than , because they're not . They're not less than past the sea , no , no , a full-time evangelist or Attendant minister or full-time pastor , no , you're not less than sometimes man , you even doing a greater work because now they're able to , sometimes so more , give more they're able to . There's less stress that they're dealing with because they're not worried about ties and offerings , they're not worrying about who put what in the plate , you know . So there's a lot of we have to have these conversations . There's a lot of A bit of things that they don't understand About that , that that , when you looking at them , is less than . No , they're not less than , because now they can be like Paul who says , like you know , you should so under me , I'm so new spiritual thing , but hey , I'm not beholding to you , I can speak the truth . Why ? Because I don't have a testimony . I'm a tent maker to you go .

Pastor Dowell 1:03:22

And so I think there's a power in that being that tent maker and that that many time I think people miss it and they made that the goal and they walked away from retirement , they walked away from 401k , and many times I've seen that scene . We've heard stories . These things hit people later , when now , when they're 65 , when they're 70 , and you realize now you start thinking about retirement . It's cool when you're in your 20s , 30s , maybe 40 , but now you're 65 and now you realize I have nothing to In my later years . And so I think these are conversations that you know Not to put others that are older down , but sometimes these are conversations that people have to think about . When they're younger , they opt out of Social Security , they don't have a 401k because they just with the church and they just get a salary and they don't have all those other benefits that sometimes a quote-unquote Job that tie you down could be bad .

Pastor Cornelius 1:04:16

These are things I think that people have to consider in Conversations past the sea that we need to have , and we'll have to dig deeper in the later Episode yeah , but I think what you said too , no , just time with this all about what your subject was Last month , before we got into this new year , and that is about mentors . I bring that up again . I think good mentors take the time to Bring the light to the mentees on this year , that you share that and I think , when this kind of knowledge and information is here by , you're not being a good mentor or you might be looking to give you another mentor . You want somebody to put to you everything that's up front . Don't just look at when I got you know . You look at my now , but you you need to .

Pastor Cornelius 1:05:04

When I'm looking at a mentor somebody , I Okay , I see you now . I want to know about your Dean I I want to know about how you arrived , what you know . I want to know about your willingness spirits . I know how to icon the promised land . I just need to know how to icon the willingness In the rough time . So I do think that tie in .

Pastor Dowell 1:05:27

Let's hit this fast . See , before we , before we , before we close me , give just a couple more . I think wrong goes to get next to I put it this way I see ministers and you want you elaborate on this real quick . A wrong goal is their goal is to get next to big people , who , who are doing big things , so they can be at big tables , because you know they want to be around the Eagles , you know the evangelists . That's killing it . That's you know around the country that they're killing on social media , on YouTube , facebook , instagram , tiktok they're going to different churches . The calendars are full . They got a big church that you know the prophetic . They got tribes to got courses , whatever that , whatever success . I want to be around those people . That's , that's their goal . I want to be at a big table .

Pastor Dowell 1:06:23

I'm not concerned about no , you know , not putting them down , but I'm trying to be no storefront , I'm trying to be with nobody . You know you meet me in your house , uh , you , you know where you traveling , you evangelize . You just evangelize in your area . Now I'm , I'm , I'm gonna go to the nations . I'm trying to do , like you know , you know people that I see on TV , like you know Ministers that really go , and so that's who I want to connect with . That's what I want to be around . So when I go to the conference , when I go to events , when I meet people at churches and and in green rooms and Living rooms whatever , if you ain't what numbers you're running , where you're going ? Let me see your Instagram , let me see your followers . You don't seem big because we heard about eagles attract eagles . I think that's a wrong goal . You want me to go first . You want to hit that first ?

Pastor Cornelius 1:07:21

Oh yeah , that's . That's definitely wrong goal . And and once again from the biblical point of view , is you should be invited up so you won't be put ashamed by being removed so it didn't . Other thing is , I think that the Bible also speak of not comparing our self by ourselves . So now you're comparing , you're comparing , so you set a goal based on yourself , comparing yourself to somebody else . You know so now that , yes , truly , that's the wrong goal and that that might not be your lane .

Pastor Cornelius 1:07:53

I Think you have to value yourself and value what's on you and Become the best at whatever you have , whatever you do . So quote , unquote if I'm at the children table , okay , I'm gonna leave the children table , I'm gonna be the one at the children table . And Whether I'm over at the duct table , I'm just using that as an example . I quote , unquote the big table . Wherever I'm at , I value I'm at because I got the right oil on me . Now I think the right , the worst thing to do is to be in a place and you ain't got the oil of the Lord upon you , that anointing , that ability that comes with that anointing . So I think , and that's what we function in , that's what we , that's why our goal should be the things we should , those right goals we talked about , but the preparation , working on your , on your preaching skills , working your devotion , all of that so that you can flow in what you're called to flow in , instead of setting goals about who I sit with .

Pastor Dowell 1:08:54

Let me tell you how I see that . That's so true prophecy . But this is the fallacy in this step . We got out of these conversations See Many times when they're gold , when we see preachers don't go to be around big people , what happens is you become a little fish , almost in a big pond .

Pastor Cornelius 1:09:13

Yes .

Pastor Dowell 1:09:14

That your association with them don't necessarily call success to be on your life , that you bring around them Not necessarily gonna make you successful and the other detriment prophecy the people who would have been more beneficial to your life . You lose Relationships . That's really saying that that could be kingdom connections with people that you meet in a green room , that you mean at a Function where you went to preach , but you you poo , pooed them because they don't have a quote-unquote big church , they didn't have the evangelists to thrust in . Think about you . You could have met a TD Jakes then , before he became what you knew . But because then you judge them about what they had , then you miss divine connections and even if they never became that , you don't know the value that they could have been in your life because you want to be .

Pastor Dowell 1:10:09

You know I'm gonna get to the bishop , these little people who you know , you just the elder in the church , you're not the pastor , so I don't really want to conversate with you , don't have nothing to do with you because you're not even senior and what we learn many times it's the people who walk with the men and women of God who can get those other doors open for you . You know , I just recently I met a man of God . See , I was at an event , man of God doing worship , you know , not to see your pastor . I was so impressed how he flowed , how he had a serving spirit and serving he didn't know who I was , you know , and because I see how he flow in another person's thing , I like , hey , I want you to come , minister to our congregation . Won't you come and do some stuff for us ? Because I saw how you moved , I saw how you operated and See you don't know what many , how many doors they've closed by looking down . That's what I'm saying Just want to be around big people now , because you look at other people as little people and so when you look at other people as little people , you treat them as little people and you don't really know who you even around amongst and that's why I think the danger in that capacity

Striving for Quality Over Quantity

Pastor Dowell 1:11:24

.

Pastor Dowell 1:11:24

So now your goal is just like I ain't trying to be around you , I'm trying to get at the big table . Yes , so you , you and then people at the big table . They recognize that spirit already that you got it twisted . Instead of trying to get at other people table , we got to get ready closed as podcasts . You should be trying to build your own table . You should been trying to build your own work , your own thing , but you so busy trying to get at other people table . You never build what God wanted you to be ill , but you so trying to rub shoulders . I know , I think that's what a lot of a miss , because they is now the other side . We do want to be around powerful people , we do want to connect , but I think there's a balance that people missed in that , when they look over the corner , man , a woman .

Pastor Cornelius 1:12:10

But I think when you look over somebody , for me I feel like you ain't bad in your own self . You , you , you got some esteem problems . You think you have to use that to look down on other people , or you got to feel like I .

Pastor Dowell 1:12:26

That's been a time you remember . Years ago no names I introduced you to a man of God that we you know , when I first met you years ago and we introduced you and you know everything and it's kind of like he really , you know , he really didn't have the time for you right really didn't want to engage .

Pastor Dowell 1:12:46

You know we get ready to do it was kind of like and not like you all of that . But I look at situations like that where he really don't even know like what could have came in that relationship . But we have other people that we've met , that we've come pop kingdom Relationship for 20 some years , because I think that's what I think that gracious . Can you kind of speak to that to help ministers , because I want them to not have that kind of spirit in that seat where they they don't never know who they dealing with because they quote-unquote . I want to be around the bishop .

Pastor Cornelius 1:13:16

But once again , I think humility play a part in that down . I honestly do . I think , as you armor yourself , you armor yourself , you walk in military and I always believe it , like I said earlier , be invited up instead of just come up . Indeed , you're gonna get your up , see , when you invite it up instead of come up , god won't put you up . So what I ? What you do , you preach . You appreciate every circumstance and situation that the Lord put you in and the people around you . You value them because you never know when you have to come back to them . So I always say you don't burn the bridge . You don't burn the bridge because you never know who you gonna need to get back cross that bridge . So I do , I agree , is totally a wrong goal and , once again , I do think you struggle sometimes with that .

Pastor Cornelius 1:14:11

If that's your goal , that a person with that struggle , they own selfish thing too , man , because they have to look there's somebody else , this bigger , bigger , to make them feel big by themselves . And so now I feel big cuz . Guess who ? We call it name drop , name dropping , name dropping . Guess who I know ? So now I make me feel bigger about myself , see . So I have to step on you . That's been low . That I consider below me .

Pastor Dowell 1:14:41

See , that's so true man , and I know Jake story that he was teaching a woman to outlose , I think , a conference of somebody . He don't know who's sitting in the audience . That person recommend him . Yeah , go speak for Carton Pearson . Then Jan crouching them seeing Paul Krause him on Carton Pearson . You don't know the domino effect when you are in a place . It could be five people there in the building , it could be on the zoom and because you don't bring your a game , because you're looking down at people , you don't really know who's ever in the audience . You don't know who know who , and I think that's what that spirit can mess them up .

Pastor Dowell 1:15:17

I found things seeing will close this podcast . It's been good man , I always enjoyed that many . I think that they have a goal of and one of my Apostles helped me with this and I'm gonna bring this they got a goal of just about having Quantity versus quality , that they're into just trying to getting followers instead of really following the , the move in this Power to hold a spirit that they they want to just do quantity stuff , putting stuff on their own livestream on YouTube , facebook , doing stuff About followers but not about quality . Because there's a goal , because what happens is they tell you you got to post five times a day or do this , you got to be out there , you got to put stuff out there and now they want to do stuff and have events or do things and what happens is you can get into doing Quantity and don't have Quality , can use what . What are you saying ? I think that's the wrong goal and we'll close the podcast , I think I call that .

Pastor Cornelius 1:16:18

There's somebody running but not chasing . Hmm , they're running after something but they're not chasing after the Lord , because what they're running , what they're running , is it a ?

Pastor Dowell 1:16:29

good to have followers that we need follow that . That's a big thing now , right ?

Pastor Cornelius 1:16:32

Yeah , it is , but once again that's for runners , not for chaser . Chasers and doves is going after the Lord , and then the Lord give you the followers , oh Hold on .

Pastor Dowell 1:16:44

You dropped the bar . You dropped the bar . So we want to be God chasers . Yes , god Chaser . God , god gives us the . Follow us as we follow Christ .

Pastor Cornelius 1:16:55

Yes , exactly what a little . Not a runner . Hmm , a runner , a runner just going after something . I did say a runner , I tell you . We just talking about that man , about a guy , I Won't call out which college , at a university that he was a runner . He was a runner for , for some agents in college . So when they got ready , when they came down Investigating , the guy said why , why , you come to me , I don't even start , I'm not even a startle , so why would y'all think they was giving me money and they call out no , no , you was they runner , you was you , you was they run and they know you . When chasing the NFL , you was running out running for the others . That was chasing . So if you can get connected with them , then They'll bless you . I did give you a return , so that's what that's about that . The other do me turn around and a chaser man .

Pastor Dowell 1:18:02

Man , man , we're gonna do a podcast on that . I love that . I want to be a chaser and I pray that that's the spirit . Those on this podcast pass to see that . There be God . Chase us , god , I'm chasing after you . And if we chase him , if we go after him , if we long and thirst after him , we follow him fast to see , then he'll add under us those who should follow us as we follow Christ .

Pastor Dowell 1:18:33

It's it , and we had them write mindset . Then our mind is not and our eyes not on our followers . Our eyes should not be on who following us . No , I should . Mine should be on who we are following . Yes , so whether you got ten following you or ten thousand or ten million , it don't matter , as long as you're following Christ , that's it . Because when we're following him With the right heart and right spirit and we get the right knowledge , then those that are called and assigned to follow us Whoo , as we follow Christ , he'll do that thing . Pass to see . Like on you . It don't look like the same success on me . That's good . Well , my friend , this has been a blessing man I've enjoyed .

Pastor Cornelius 1:19:23

I don't know about you , you've been great man , as always , man , I really enjoy it and I , I do , and I encourage them , I encourage everyone . Hey , you want , you want to make sure , no matter what , as you walk through this , as if in the five fold , I want to make sure I'm , I'm going after Him , I'm chasing after him . As I chase after him , I'm setting not wrong goals , but right goals . Why ? Because the right goals , man , it gives you power . The wrong goals give you pain remember dr Canis .

Pastor Dowell 1:20:01

They can't reach at pbc word right , no sir Pbc word at gmailcom .

Pastor Dowell 1:20:08

TBC word at gmailcom . Yes , you can reach dr Canis , we've been blessed . Thank you all for tuning in for another Five-fold food podcast . I pray that you've been blessed . We pray that you have eaten well . So now that you can excel , I want you to remember never to forget , no matter where you are in your life , the God is testing you for greatness . I believe that you're gonna live better , I believe that you're gonna do better and I believe that you're gonna release and experience the brilliance that's seen you . Don't forget to subscribe to our podcast . Be sure you show your support on any level that you can . Until our next time together . Keep moving forward in Jesus name . We look forward to our next time together .