Longevity in Ministry with Dr. Torrey Montgomery

Embark on a journey of spiritual nourishment and wisdom with us as we're joined by the esteemed Dr. Torrey Montgomery. Our feast of insights is laid out to empower ministers' hearts and minds, ensuring they remain steadfast in their divine callings. Expect to uncover the threads that bind identity, purpose, and weaving together a foundation for longevity in ministry."  Dr. Montgomery, drawing from his extensive experiences and insights of his book "Go Next," offers valuable strategies for those seeking to elevate their lives, businesses, and relationships. We promise that by the end of our conversation, you'll be equipped with revelations and practical advice to help you that will empower you to excel in your role as a five-fold minister.

Every minister faces the challenge of keeping their flame alive, but what's the secret behind a passionate, enduring ministry? Discover how understanding your 'why' can fuel a lifelong commitment to divine assignment. Reflecting on personal experiences and the influence of his father's dedication to the church, we explore the importance of mentorship in shaping one's ministerial path. Dr. Montgomery highlights the invaluable wisdom he has gleaned from figures like Dr. Myles Monroe and Bishop Gary Macintosh, illustrating how their teachings have profoundly influenced his approach to leadership, theology, and practical church understanding."  This episode is a wellspring of knowledge for any spiritual leader looking to fortify their resolve and renew their purpose.

As we navigate the realities of ministry life, we discuss the balance between nurturing and disciplining congregants, the concept of preaching from the overflow of life, and the importance of embracing a growth mindset. We touch on personal transformations, from financial struggles to the revelations found in network marketing and mentorship, highlighting the collective wisdom of leaders like Jonathan Sprinkles and Myron Golden. By the end, you'll feel a renewed sense of belief in your destined greatness and be inspired to show up for your life with vigor—because true brilliance is waiting to be unleashed. Join us at this table of wisdom, where growth and encouragement are the main courses.

Transcript

Speaker 1 0:13

Welcome to the Five Fold Food Podcast hosted by Dr Robert F Dowell, where ministers receive the spiritual nourishment they need to succeed. The Word of God declares and he gave some apostles and some prophets and some evangelists and some pastors and teachers for the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ. Prepare to receive revelation, wisdom and insight to empower your ministry for victory. Now let's eat.

Dr. Dowell 0:49

Praise the Lord. God bless each and every one of you. Welcome to Five Fold Food. I'm your host, dr Robert F Dile. I'm so delighted that you've tuned in to another broadcast. I want to encourage you wherever you may be listening to this, whether you're on Apple, spotify, whatever you get your podcast, be sure that you do like and subscribe. Also, be sure to leave us a review. That will help us with the algorithm. They'll be able to push this podcast out. If it's helping you in any way, be sure that you do share your testimony with us. If you have to be watching this by video, be sure that you do subscribe as well. If you're on YouTube, be sure that you subscribe as well, like it and share it out with other ministers. I believe you'll be a blessing under them. I'm excited today about today's podcast. I have with me my good friend, Dr. Torrey Montgomery. Welcome to the table of Five Fold Food. Man of God.

Dr. Montgomery 1:51

Yes, yes, dr Dile, I'm so honored, excited and just privileged to be on the podcast today. I'm excited. I'm excited about this conversation. I know it's going to be good, powerful and full of gold. Hey, man.

Dr. Dowell 2:07

I know man. I often like to say man. There is revelation, dr Montgomery, in our conversation. I believe that God's going to give some revelation in our conversation. For those who don't know Dr Montgomery, he is the pastor of the Knight Church Global in Oklahoma City, oklahoma.

Dr. Dowell 2:27

Torrey Montgomery has been recognized over the decade as a leader of leaders. He has focused on the science of getting unstuck Hallelujah, getting people. I like that, getting unstuck, high capacity leadership and introducing people to the radical love of God. He is the author of several high demand books. A holly sought after speaker, consultant and coach, tori's dynamic approach has been proven to inspire organizations, companies and individuals to reach maximum potential. He has traveled extensively around the world and has spoken to government officials, churches, police departments, schools and major corporations. Tori is an agent of change that inspires leadership at the highest level by helping people come and to discover their voice and walk in their necks. Dr Montgomery works with organizations that want to experience next level productivity and to get unstuck by increasing their leadership capacity. Tori has been training leaders for over a decade to help them discover and shift into their necks. He works with individuals and organizations all over the world in various spaces. You can reach him at imotivatetoleadgmailcom. Also, you can reach him on his different social media handles at nextcoachnumberone. Again, we're excited to have Dr Montgomery with us.

Dr. Dowell 4:05

Awesome man of God, I like to say, one of my favorite preachers in the world. I'd often like to hear this man of God. He's always chopping gems, full of excitement and energy. Again, we're so excited about what you're doing. We'll have some time on the back end, but I know how these conversations we get caught up. I don't know if you can share anything else with our audience that I didn't share. That helped them get a better feel of you. Maybe share what you got going on. Maybe you got some books out now, particular books that they might want to bail themselves to, because I know after the podcast they're going to want to know about them. So we'll get it on the front end. We'll share it on the back end as well.

Dr. Montgomery 4:43

You know what Dr. Dowell? You gave a lot with the bio there. My big passion is to help people come into their Christ identity is how I say it Really learning who they are. I feel like that there is an identity crisis in the world and a part of my calling is to help people discover their identity and really walk out their fullness of their purpose. So that's my passion, that's what I live for, that's what drives me is being able to have that opportunity to help people.

Dr. Dowell 5:12

Good. Are there any particular books you recently released, any projects you got going on that we can know about, we can unveil ourselves to?

Dr. Montgomery 5:20

Yeah, so Go Next is my latest book. Go Next is on Amazon. Okay, I'm shifting from your now to your next in your life, business and relationships. So it's a book that's really designed to help you get unstuck. So, wherever you are in your life, your business relationship, it gives you practical principles to help you shift your life. I say, from your now to your next. Your now is where you're stuck, your next is where you're going. That's the vision you see, that's the place you want to be. So that's the Go Next book. That is a game changer for you.

Dr. Dowell 5:51

Amen. I believe God's going to help many through this podcast. Go Next man. It's just been an honor just to get to know you and to see all the great things that God is doing in your life. I'm so glad that you could find the time to be on this podcast.

Dr. Dowell 6:05

And what I want to discuss in today's podcast we want to talk about longevity and wisdom in ministry. I thought, dr Montgomery, this would be so needful for the five-fold food. As they pull up a chair and we just have a conversation, we want them to pull up a chair and be able to eat with us. Because I've looked over the body of Christ and it sets my heart when you know of individuals that answered the call and we're talking specifically to those in the five-fold ministry, those apostles, prophets, evangelists, pastors and teachers, those that have that five-fold call that at one time in their life they answered the call, they accepted the call and maybe some tradition, they had a trial sermon or they answered the call and then years later you come and come and contact with them and they're no longer in the ministry.

Dr. Dowell 6:54

They're no longer doing the work of the ministry. You wouldn't know that they were a minister unless they told you, because there's no more fruit in their life and I think if we can learn some things on the front end, we can prevent that and we can have some longevity in ministry and so with you, can you tell us how long you've been passionate? I know you've been in ministry over 20-some years. Can I just tell us some of your how long you've been in ministry?

Dr. Montgomery 7:19

Yeah, absolutely. I've been in ministry pretty much all my life. My dad was a pastor so I played keyboard and for my dad's church I led worship at certain times. I've been in youth ministry, so I've been in ministry for a long time. It was one Sunday morning I was at my church that I was playing keyboard at 6am in the mornings. When I got there every single morning and my pastor came in that morning and pointed to me and said it's on you today. And I said what's on me? What are you talking about? And he said you got the word today. And that's literally how I started preaching. That moment and it activated something in me that really stirred up a gift, stirred up a fire in me. So I'm glad he did. At the time I was like this is the craziest thing ever heard of in my life, but I'm glad he did it. And so I've been in pastoring now for 15 years a little over 15 years and been going strong.

Dr. Dowell 8:17

Wow, Praise God and music ministry before that many years, many years of music ministry.

Dr. Montgomery 8:22

Yes, yeah, years Wow.

Dr. Dowell 8:26

What I want to start this conversation. I think it'll be helpful, pastor, that what has been your driving force in sustaining a long and passionate ministry Some would say career, but just a time in ministry. What has been your driving force? And I believe this is so a crucial question for ministers to hear and understand, because many times Dr Montgomery will see a person like you. We'll see a Bishop, TD Jakes, people that were at Myer, darius Daniel or different people that we might see doing great things in the kingdom of George Meyer. And what we do, we see the what. We see what they're doing, we see the fruit, but many times we don't really have the conversations to know their root. What, what I call is the why. We see the what, but really what's the driving force is to root, is the why that causes them to have the passion. So, what, what's been your driving force? What's dr Montgomery's why? And that can help us understand. Do we have a why and what's our why? Ministry?

Dr. Montgomery 9:31

Yeah, so absolutely, I love that. You know, dr Miles Monroe said where purpose is not known, abuse is inevitable. So, really becoming clear on purpose, I think when it comes to longevity, one of the issues is that we get that call like you talked about. We have that trial sermon, we have that moment. It's really exciting, but we never clarify the why, the purpose, why, why do I really do this? What's the purpose of me doing this?

Dr. Montgomery 9:54

And for me, one of the big things is I mean, I was this, this Seeing lives Change, like that's something that drives me, like even when I get you know, discourage or something like that, the moment that I have that opportunity.

Dr. Montgomery 10:10

Do you hear a testimony of someone who said I was here, I was feeling like this and then I heard a word, you preach, a message and it shifted my life to now my life was. I was broken and busted and disgusted, and now I'm walking in my purpose, I'm living out my destiny. So for me, seeing other people live out their destiny I'm also a martial arts instructor and that's been the the Passion for me even with that and it translates over into ministry when I see somebody in martial arts and I train them and they go from a Quiet white belt that's very timid to a black belt that's on fire and bold and can go. I have that same passion when it comes to ministry. When someone comes in their timid, they're fearful, they're living a life that's not it, not within the will of God, but then all of a sudden, their life shifts. That's what gets me going. I'm like this is why I do this.

Dr. Dowell 11:02

Wow, wow. And so for you. You tapped into your purpose, which was helping others reach the destiny, reach the next. That's the terminology, I believe, the branding that God is giving you. Part of your why is, then, is helping people get to their next. Would that be true?

Dr. Montgomery 11:19

That's absolutely, absolutely, yeah.

Dr. Dowell 11:22

How did you come up with that pastor tour? Because what I I'm thinking about in my own life, I think that's why I think I had such a we have such a kindred spirits when we met each other. Because my, my why, my purpose, is not necessarily I didn't put it in terms of helping people find that next, but it's if helping people Release their brilliance in them, helping them become brilliant, yeah, better living, better, in other words, part of my why is I get my fulfillment by helping others find their purpose, yeah, and do that purpose. That's why joy comes in. It's like I don't have to. We are preaching, teach, but I can be on the sideline coaching someone else and they're preaching and teaching or whatever they do, and I get just as much joy by Seeing them accomplish their purpose and their dreams, by the coaching that I give them in the help. And that's my why and that's what fuels me. It what keeps me going. It was gives me that passion.

Dr. Dowell 12:23

How did you discover that, that process? How did you come about discovering? Because what I'm seeing is you know that in the old Saints was saying we read in the Bible he's a wheel in the middle of a Real. In other words I gotta like. Look at like it. Like this way, there's purpose in purpose.

Dr. Dowell 12:41

Yeah many times, as ministers, we find our purpose and somewhere, oh, I'm a minister, I got my purpose, I'm a teacher, I'm an evangelist, but we don't go deeper in that. Yeah, there's levels to this, there's love to get to that deeper level where you realize I'm about helping people. Moving to the next.

Dr. Montgomery 13:00

From from getting the question what's next? So a lot of people were in in life or like I don't know what to do next, I don't know where to go, I don't know I'm in a job I don't like, what do I do next? Or I I'm in a relationship that is not working the way I wanted what do I do next? Or I'm in a broken place. What's next for my life? And so not even just in those type of dramatic type things even people graduate college. What's next? I got a raise on a job, I'm a promotion. What's next? I just started a business. What do I do next? And so when I started hearing that it, there's this Word called divine discontent. So this divine discontent rose up in me Hearing people ask the question what's next. So I said I've got to feel that void. I gotta help people answer that question. And so that's what. That's what it really became for me. I got to answer the question for people and help them feel that find that void in their own lives.

Dr. Dowell 13:59

Good, what I'm hearing in this pastoral is for you, and that's why I like to break this down. I like to call to the lowest common denominator. We break it down so that we can get it down in our spirits. For you then, when I'm seeing, is it was the Question that you felt that your life answered?

Dr. Montgomery 14:17

Yes, yes.

Dr. Dowell 14:18

That's it. It's the question that there was a question out there in the in the earth room. Yeah, people are trying to get to that next, and you resonated with that question and there in you found your purpose. I really never thought about it that way in terms of a question, but when I frame it that way in my own life, my thing was helping people find the purpose, that the destiny, doing what they're called to do was more finding their destiny, doing the purpose, and then I thought about how they do that. It's releasing their brilliance, and so my thing is how do they get to that? It's like they gotta, they gotta release the brilliance. They got to get what's in them out of them, and so you help them get it out. It's in them, you don't put it in them right, it's already there, so it's the question.

Dr. Dowell 15:04

I like that. So I believe ministers need to begin to ask themselves if they're gonna go deeper into their their purpose and ministry and have the Longevity and ministry that you got to feel like. Figure out, what is the question in life that you're called to answer, absolutely, you're called to address? Would you say that? Would you agree with that?

Dr. Montgomery 15:23

Absolutely and see, and when you, when you break it down like that, that takes you to a whole nother level of what ministry is. Because here's the Challenge. I think them, that people who are in ministry think they think that ministry is about preaching and and just and just giving messages and just getting in a pool pit, and they think that's what the whole being called is about. But being called is about here again, answering a question that the earth is asking. If you're not answering a question that the earth is asking, you're really not functioning your purpose.

Dr. Montgomery 15:54

You may be doing something, you may be preaching, you may be preaching sermons and you may be turning a church out when you preach a sermon, but that doesn't mean you're answering the question that you're called to answer. That's the biggest piece of your purpose, because everybody is is here because there's a void in the earth. When we're not just here just to exist, we're not here just to breathe, we're not here just to go to church. We're here because there's a void in the earth and when God saw the void, he allowed you to be born so you can feel that specific void and so that's what creates this longevity. What keeps driving me, what keeps pulling me is because the question is still being asked.

Dr. Dowell 16:36

Whoo, wow, see and see again. This will take you through trials, through ups and downs, as Paul said. Whether you're being abased, you still moving for purpose. Whether you're a bound, purpose is still driving you. Whether you're in season, out of season, yeah, that drives us and I think we got to get to that. Find out why.

Dr. Dowell 16:59

Let's do a quick Teacher moment with impact of dr Montgomery how do we help these ministers discover that question that they are asking? How do you, how do how do we help them find their why? Or the question that they are called to answer in the earth room? And I like that you framed it that way that it's just not about preaching a sermon, it's just not about being in the pulpit, that our ministry expands beyond the pulpit, I would say. And let's kind of we'll just go back and forth and drop some nuggets on them. It's finding out what question are you drawn to?

Dr. Dowell 17:36

What type of people are you drawn to, what resonates in your heart? Because I never found it, never hit me to help people with the next. But within me, from the onset, there was something about just destiny, just from the beginning of my ministry, that I wanted to help people, you know, reach their destiny, or something about me helping people reach their destiny. So I think about it is what type of people are you drawn to? What is the affinity in your heart? What would you just say? We just go back and forth to help them discover that, because that's what's gonna keep them in the longevity.

Dr. Montgomery 18:10

Yeah, sometimes it's your frustrations. The thing that's frustrating you is what you're called to. Oftentimes and people don't like that. Because we run from our frustrations, like these people keep coming to me, they keep wanting all this, they keep doing this. That's probably because you're called to it and so you gotta realize that. And then the other thing is listen Like you have to really listen. You're and I'm gonna use a marketing, I'm gonna use it in a marketing term, I'm gonna use the word market. Your market will often identify itself and so, if we say it from a ministry standpoint, the people you're called to will often identify themselves.

Dr. Montgomery 18:49

These are the people that will start, you'll start, attracting around you. You start seeing these type of people around you consistently. You start hearing these type of conversations consistently. So if you're hearing conversations or questions on relationships and that's something you're constantly hearing that may be an area that you're called to. Somebody's coming in there. You're hearing stuff about prayer. People are always asking about prayer. So that may be a question that God is wanting you to answer around the subject of helping people understand their prayer life at a deeper level, at a greater level. So you gotta really listen, you gotta look at what's around you. Sometimes we look at other people's calling and we say I wanna do what they're doing, I wanna reach the people they're reaching, and God said, no, no, I didn't call you to reach those people. There's a group of people that's around you right now that you're called to, that you're running from Whoa whoa, whoa, that you're called to that many times.

Dr. Dowell 19:42

You're running from yes. So who's attracted to you? That's part of also you helping you. You have to look at who's attracted to you. I like to put it this way if bees are attracted to you, then you'll realize. You know what I may be honey. Whatever's attracted to you, it's a part of what God has called you to do. So you wanna ask that what's your desire? What's your passion of your heart? What makes your baby leave? When you see other people, you can't just look at and say I wanna do what they do, but you gotta realize what resonates with you, what makes your baby leave, what gets you excited. I think those are some things that help and I think that's the key to longevity that we get into our purpose. Let's go a little bit further, because I think we're gonna have longevity in ministry and not be fly by night.

Dr. Dowell 20:33

Ministers and preachers Think it goes beyond the pulpit and we're gonna have to address some of that. That is just down about pulpit ministry. You do coaching, you do other things. I think it goes beyond the pulpit, but I think a lot of time that comes because of the influences that we have in our life. If we only had a model, a church model, and the mentors that modeled us, that we did just church, then we see that's what we do, that's the essence of the ministry to preach in church or to get a church. You know what I mean. So now that's it. That's, it's no longer, it's not bigger than the four walls.

Dr. Dowell 21:12

So let's talk about influential mentors in your life. Could you share about the mentors or leaders who have significantly influenced your ministry and the impact that they have had on your life? And I think this question is important. That ministers think about this, dr Tory, is because I believe, in order for us to reach our full statue in Christ, that we have to stand on other shoulders. Yes, we're not beginning at the bottom To reach our full potential. To some people, we got the apostles from the Bible, what they went through. We're standing and I think many times when we see people ascend and have that longevity, when we don't have these conversations to get in their background, we don't realize that it just didn't begin with them there are some influential leaders and mentors that we can learn from.

Dr. Dowell 22:05

So can you kind of share some of yours and what lessons you learn from them?

Influences and Mentors in Ministry

Dr. Montgomery 22:11

Yeah, absolutely. There's several that I've been in my life. Of course I mentioned my dad, who passed it for 25 years or so before he passed away, and of course he was major influencer life where for us, church wasn't an option. It wasn't like we get to choose if we're gonna go to church that morning, it was what we do and so. But that was good, because that instilled that ministry mindset, that desire for ministry.

Dr. Montgomery 22:39

And I love about my parents is that it wasn't overbearing, it wasn't like manipulation or control or overbearing, it was just this is what we do and we learn to love it and we learn to be a part of it. And then from there I moved out and started exploring on my own and I came in contact with Michael Johnson, which you know. Pastor Michael Johnson and I served at the Refreshing for many years, which that opened me up specifically to another type of ministry, because I was raised kind of traditional Baptist, hung around the Kojic church. But then when I got with the Refreshing and Pastor Michael, it was like they was doing ministry, like I had never seen anybody do ministry. They still doing stuff like people we never seen Right exactly.

Dr. Montgomery 23:25

This is that, that is facts.

Dr. Dowell 23:29

Maybe they about outside the box. I tell them, man, you live out some color outside the lines. Man you just say, man, we ain't even looking at what lines.

Dr. Montgomery 23:37

We ain't got no lines, yes, sir, but it definitely exposed me. It opened my eyes up that ministry can be done a different way, different types of ways. And then from there, dr Miles Monroe. This is when my theology started beginning to get formed, when I started listening to Dr Monroe. And then I got the opportunity to start getting in the room with him and go to different seminars and conferences and be around him. And so my theology, the kingdom theology, understanding, dominion and all these types of things begin to get formed from there.

Dr. Montgomery 24:13

And then I met Dr Monroe through Bishop Gary Macintosh, who pastors in Tulsa. He pastor Greenwood at the time recently, last several years, transferred the church over to Michael Todd, now transformation church. But from him I learned administration, the importance of order, structure. He's a mastermind when it comes to structure, order, putting things in place, making sure things are flowing the way they should flow, and I learned that from him. And then Bishop Tony Miller, out of the gate church. He passed away a few years ago, but he also began to help shape my mind and my theology and things like that.

Dr. Montgomery 24:52

And so there's so many others I could go down the line and name, but those are some major I would say major influences that I had close access to. That really formed me, not just as a preacher but even as a man, as a person, to learn how to navigate through ministry. So people who had longevity Bishop Macintosh long you talk about longevity, 50 years in ministry, full-time ministry so being able to watch how he navigated and hear the stories even of how he started he was a part of Azusa, starting Azusa and part of those ministries like that so being able to watch that and see how those things happen, that's what shaped who I am now. So when you hear me preach now, you hear a little bit of Miles Moro, you hear a little bit of Michael Johnson, you hear a little bit of my dad, you hear a little Bishop Macintosh, you hear a little bit of all them mixed into that into my preaching right now. And so oftentimes I hear people they'll say man, you sounded a lot like Miles Moro today.

Dr. Montgomery 25:54

I studied that bookshelf. I got back there. It's two rows full of his books that I just studied and gleaned from. So those are some of the mentors. There are others, of course, that I've been poured into, but those are some that I had really close access to.

Dr. Dowell 26:10

Man, that's good. So my question I ask the ministers they'll ask who is helping shape your ministry? What is helping shape the minister that you will become? And that's why we have to think about mentors, because something is shaping you. You don't want just you shaping you. God has given gifts in the earth realm to help us mature and come into the full stature and the measure that Christ wants us to have. Let's unpack just for a moment. I see from Michael Johnson with me, kind of knowing him, it's kind of like an influence you with outside the box. It kind of put a spirit on you to get outside that box. You know that it can be done a different way, that expanded, it expanded. And then I hear I think you mentioned Pastor Tony.

Dr. Montgomery 27:02

Tony Miller. Tony Miller, yep.

Dr. Dowell 27:04

It was more leadership you mentioned.

Dr. Montgomery 27:06

More leadership, yeah, a lot of leadership from him.

Dr. Dowell 27:09

So you see that? See, I hope we're here in the different pieces, so you're thinking leadership. Then you said Miles Monroe was more of that purpose piece. Right, he felt all of us with that, didn't he?

Dr. Montgomery 27:19

Oh yeah purpose and just the theology overall, because he really started getting into that gospel of the kingdom and really teaching that and so that really started shaping my mindset of how I live in the earth, versus from a theological standpoint, you know, versus the escapism mindset From him. It got the wait a minute. We're supposed to have dominion, so let's take dominion in the earth.

Dr. Dowell 27:42

Wow. And then you said Bishop McIntosh, you got the longevity, but you said the administrative side to process how things flow.

Dr. Montgomery 27:53

Yeah.

Dr. Dowell 27:54

From your dad. You had to. You had a model, you had an example of it, yes, and you learned I would get. Then, from your dad and your other background you learn church.

Dr. Montgomery 28:04

Yeah, I learned church.

Dr. Dowell 28:05

You learned how to learn church.

Dr. Montgomery 28:06

You can hallelujah, right, yeah, definitely the foundation.

Dr. Dowell 28:10

So what I'm seeing is this is what makes a well-rounded minister of the gospel a well-rounded these different influences, and here in we can see the unpacked part of your success or your longevity, because you're well-rounded, many times for lack of knowledge. Many ministers don't have the longevity because they haven't been well-rounded, they haven't eaten off different tables. I don't think we should eat off everybody's table, but I believe that God gives us gifts that we talked about in a previous podcast, how that maybe one mentor can't provide everything that you need. So that's why you have to be able to find other mentors so that you can be well-rounded. My question to those that are listening and watching today how well-rounded are you? Thank God for your pastor, but you need other people to help shape and mold you as well.

Dr. Dowell 29:06

Can you unpack what, bishop McIntosh, when you talk about the administrative? Maybe a story or something you learned that helped you in terms of that's interesting and administrative, a process, a flow, to kind of let us, but we can get in on your learning. We didn't get the mentorship, but we get that. This is the whole thing about pulling up at the table. Yes, sir, you were just having this conversation. Only I benefit from them. Now many can just pull up a table and just kind of just pull up a chair and eat while we eat. Yeah, can you kind of share one of the things that you learned or anything that you can think in your mind from him that really that helped you? That could probably help us.

Dr. Montgomery 29:48

Yeah, absolutely. One of the things that he was big on, or is big on, was we used to go I used to do every Thursday I would drive to Tulsa from Oklahoma City, drive to Tulsa and sit with him, me and about five or six, seven other pastors, and we'd just sit and just glean just wisdom. And what was so amazing, he was an open book. So everything that they were doing at Greenwood Transformation Church he was telling us every single thing and so we got a chance to peek behind the scenes of what was taking place. A lot of the things that was really important that I really grabbed from him is taking people through a process. So a lot of times what happens is we just bring people to church, say, hey, you're in church now, praise the Lord. But there's a process to get people where. You start with winning them. That was winning people to Christ. They come in, they join the church, they're in a kingdom now, they got saved, so on and so forth. But what do you do next after that? After you win them, there's a piece called discipleship. How do you bring in this discipleship piece? Because you don't wanna stop at the place of just winning them to Christ. That's great and wonderful, praise God, they're on their way to heaven. But now how do they grow in Christ? How do they grow? So that's the discipleship piece.

Dr. Montgomery 31:02

And then the next piece that he really always really pushed is the empowerment piece. So once they're discipled, the disciples should make more disciples, right? So that empowerment piece, empowering the people, because here's what we've. What we found is that the moment you can get people Not just involved in an auxiliary or a thing, but you get them involved in their assignment, you get them involved in their process of growth, that's when everything changes for them. In that moment it's not because a lot of times we say, okay, they join the church, let's hear him get them on usherboard, which is cool, you know, that's nothing wrong with that but the bigger piece of that is, how do I get them through their process of growth? And so Bishop Macintosh taught us it was systematic. It's not just something you just hope happens, Right, if there's actually a process and a system you have to put in place in order to pull people through that process.

Dr. Dowell 31:56

Wow, good, and then he laid that out. That's so good. Wow, wow, that is man. That is, that is good. Let's, let's go, let's go even deeper in in this.

Faith and Struggles in Ministry

Dr. Dowell 32:08

I think one of the One of the mistakes that people make is just, I believe, in not having mentors and and limiting themselves into whether we use the term mentor that can seem more official but influences, then, if we don't want to use the term influence that people that have major impact and Major influence in our life. Can you, can you discuss, let's talk about some mistakes that you may be made. Can you discuss maybe a mistake that you made in ministry and maybe the lesson it taught you? Because I, many times, when we look at preachers that we aspire to be like or people that we look up to, we often see the stars, we see them as shining stars, but really time we don't see their scars. Yeah, and what has been so beneficial to me in my ministry is when I saw people who I looked up to, that I aspire to, honestly, when I begin to hear some of the scars, because what it did the bops is the no temptation that has taken us, such as common. It helped me identify them and it helped them know, wow, I'm not crazy. They go through like I go through. You know, they have these same ministry struggles or they went through this. So when I would get their scars, it helped me.

Dr. Dowell 33:27

And I believe that's what Bishop Jakes brought to the body of Christ his Dimension. Yeah, when he came on the scene in the in the early 90s, he brought a dimension where it was the move of faith and we believe God and we still do those things and the prophetic was trying to come into now and people embracing the Holy Spirit. Then, on the wings of that, the apostolic came. But he brought that dimension of men's shepherds bleed. Yeah, that you got faith, but we still go through.

Dr. Dowell 33:56

You know, I still remember desert babies. You know you were born in the desert. For all of that. He brought that just as faith. But there's a pain, not that we stay in the pain, not that we complain, but we acknowledge the pain but we overcome it. Yeah, in the faith movement it was almost not of it an acknowledgement right or the dealer. Without pain, you know, it's like since you believe and you healed and you deliver and your prosper. We don't talk about that, we don't talk about the struggle at all Well, jakes, what he did he didn't major on the struggle but he acknowledged it Right and I think that he brought a peace or dimension that I think helped the body Christ breathe, you know and so again.

Dr. Dowell 34:42

I believe he brought that scar. So anything you, you can Maybe share. I just, I know in my life I think I just share first and maybe I'm gonna hear you In early days of my ministry, when I was moving in the prophetic, I remember God used to use me a lot in the prophetic and I remember being in circles. I'm maybe 20, I think I might have been 20 years old, maybe 19 or 20, and I would be in circles. You know, you just closed in prayer, man, in the spirit of God, to follow me, tori, and I found myself prophesied and does say God and nothing.

Dr. Dowell 35:17

What happened so much? It happened to the point that, not that I said people weren't receiving, but you know how people may look. Or I Start feeling like man, god is, it's always happening. You know, I don't want to be the only one always doing it and you know what I did. I kind of I shut it, I kind of shut it down with like I don't, I don't want to do it, man, and it's like what God showed me.

Dr. Dowell 35:42

He said you think this is you, hmm, this ain't you, this me and God, honest truth. It's like the spirit of God for that dimension lifted off of me, tori, but in those moments I no longer felt his glory. I know love, a felt the unction. You know it's like that mantle that lifted and what God was showing me, it wasn't you, it was me, and I had to repent and say God, if, if it's only, I'll always share, because I it's kind of like he withdrew his spirit in that area from me because he was teaching me through that that don't worry about people, don't look at what they do you do without calling it, and that's an error, one of the many that I've made, but I just made in terms of just ministry with the Holy Spirit by denying and then let my own self get in the way. So maybe something you can share that might be beneficial.

Dr. Montgomery 36:34

Yeah, for sure. You know, I think for me in throughout ministry and I still, if I'm honest, struggle with this, and that is, I See the potential in people so much that sometimes I just want to get them into action, get them moving, get them a position, get them some title, whatever, because I could. I'm like, oh, I see it, that's there, and what that calls for me is oftentimes to move too fast and when, because I see the potential, but I they. Either they don't see the potential or they haven't grown into that space yet. It it does two things actually it ends up frustrating me and frustrating them, because now I'm trying to push them into something that they're not ready for. I Think you're ready because you got the potential. And the problem with that, sometimes you actually end up pushing people out Because you're pushing them too hard. Right, they're not ready to move into that direction. And so I've had to really sit back in and work on and, like I said, I'm still working on it Work on correcting that, because it causes, I would even say, unnecessary pain in certain areas, that of your life, because of that. So that that's been a big deal for me. One of the things I say this will cook.

Dr. Montgomery 37:51

One of the things that that helps me with, that is, I started identifying categories with people. I learned this in a business conference that you have some people that are athletes and some people that are fans, and and you have to understand the difference the people who are fans they're gonna come and they're gonna wear the shirts. They're gonna show up, they gonna shout, they go, they gonna celebrate the wins. They gonna be upset on the losses. They might buy season tickets. They don't have all the stuff their fans. But if you take a fan and try to force them to be an athlete, you'll destroy them Because they're only fans. And sometimes, as ministers, we get confused because we think, oh man, because they're fans, maybe they could be an athlete. Now you can.

Dr. Montgomery 38:43

After, you can ask an athlete. You gonna be there at 5 am. Athletes are in. They in the building. They ready, they ready to go. You, they can stay. They can say you need to stay late. They gonna stay late. You can say you need to, we need to move all these chairs. They move in chairs. You can you do all this stuff. Athletes are ready, they're ready to go. Put them on the platform. They ready to move, they ready to go. But if you take a fan and tell a fan, what, why aren't you coming at 5 o'clock in the morning? We said 5 o'clock. They like no, I'm a fan, I came for the show and so that helps me. So I identify, okay, this person over here. They're a fan, they're not ready to be an athlete yet, so I'm not gonna push them into the athlete mode.

Lessons Learned

Dr. Dowell 39:23

Wow, man, I'm telling you, talk to Montgomery. I knew something when we met man, we never had this conversation. We got to check out birth certificates, man. We got to see man, man, we first cousins who your folks, man? Who your folks, man, we gotta, we gotta talk to our grandparents who your folks, man, because we too much alike. Man, I'm telling you that that that has been part of my same Struggle as well. I just I just framing in different Places what I went through one of the mistakes I made. I called it that I wanted things more than they wanted it, and I had to learn that, as a as that part of me, I wanted it more than they did. Mm-hmm, and I found myself in the ring trying to help them fight battles and I get hit.

Dr. Montgomery 40:15

Yeah.

Dr. Dowell 40:17

I can't hit, I ended up being the bad guy. You end up being the problem. I'm trying to help you In this situation, but because I wanted it more than you, I get hit, and so I had to learn one of the things that helped me I learned to take the boxer approach, where I just I become a corner man. That.

Dr. Dowell 40:36

I learned to sometimes let people fight their own battles. You know, you heard the story of the person that's drowning, the person, the person's in the pool drowning and the lifeguard is there and the person's going down and the lifeguard sits there and then like you're gonna jump in and save little Johnny, he's drowning, he's drowning and the lifeguard waits. He goes down, it goes back up, it goes down, and then the lifeguard goes in and pulls him out. And they asked the lifeguard why did you? What would you wait known? What were you waiting on? Why you didn't jump in? But he says, if I jumped in at that time they would have both of us would have drowned because they would have pulled me down in the struggle.

Dr. Dowell 41:13

But I had to wait to appoint that they was able to receive what I had to give them. Then I jumped them to save them, and so that's an approach in that that I learned to be a corner man. Yeah, I like that realize to let them know I I didn't leave the stadium. I didn't leave. I'm still here, but I'm not there in the midst. I'm right here in the corner and when you need me, I'll always be here.

Dr. Dowell 41:36

Yeah, because I can help you when you're ready for the help. Right, because if I help you when you're not ready for the help, I get hurt in it. Right, I've become the problem. That thing turn on you.

Dr. Montgomery 41:48

Yes, oh, my goodness.

Dr. Dowell 41:50

And I love your analogy I had. I have to use that. One final thing just help me in terms of you maybe can speak this, because it may help some pastors that may be listening minutes as well. I learned and I start calling in this term what God showed me because I have a pastor. I'm a pastor, but I will apostolic mantle. Don't always care anything about title, I know I'm called to the apostolic as well. Yeah, so there's two sides of my congregation. I tell them I said there's a pastorial side and there's an apostolic side. I'm not too faced it, but I'm too excited. Jesus is a lamb and a lion is both come on Right pastor and I'm apostolic and I had to learn that.

Dr. Dowell 42:26

When I learned about the apostolic man, they woke me up and realized that's why I'm built the way I am. Yeah and what helped me and I'll move on and you can maybe uh, massage or something may help pastors. I learned this mentality that as a pastor, I'm building a cruise ship and you know what it's like on them cruise ship. Yeah man, we serve you. You know you. You, you just relaxing, chill, you go on the lead, old deck man.

Dr. Dowell 42:53

This is all fun and game, man, we enjoying it. You know, cruise ship, that's pastor, but as apostolic, I'm building a battleship the cruise ship dealing with the saints, the battleship with soldiers. So we got to train, we got to have regiment, we got to have order, we got to have discipline, we got a mission. Yeah, we're warriors, whereas the saints will worship us.

Dr. Dowell 43:16

Hmm, see you on the lead old day we're going to walk and when I learned to realize that it helped me to try to balance to be sure that I'm not too much battleship. Hmm, that's so good to realize I gotta be, I gotta, I gotta be cruise ship or they're gonna jump off the ship. They're like. We no longer want to stay on this ship. We did not sign up for a battleship. Some of them signed up for a cruise ship. Yeah and I had to learn to balance that. So that's like that.

Dr. Dowell 43:43

That helped me. Anything else you want to say that might help these pastors in terms of different dimensions? I think that's so good that we learn how, that we don't put labels. I love that language. We don't label people, but we categorize them so that we can properly relate to them.

Dr. Dowell 44:00

Yeah a label will limit you. We don't put label to limit, constrict them, to bind them there, but we categorize them. So now, with that category, we can have the proper Relationship to you. I love that paradigm. I'm gonna use that man. That's gonna help me. I love that. Fans and athletes I love that man. Yeah you might have to put that. You might put that somewhere in the book. I love that.

Dr. Montgomery 44:24

Yeah, you know, I like what you're saying and I think one thing that's really important for pastors, especially in the time that we're in that, because people are, they have the people have this mindset that I ain't taking that anymore. So there used to be this point where you know leaders, pastor, especially where that title apostolic it was you know, you know, you tell people, get over here, you know you I'm, you know, you know obey, you know all that kind of stuff, and it was really pushing people and controlling and all that kind of stuff. Now people, people will douche you out in a second. They'd be like I'm done in a second. So what has to happen? You had there.

Dr. Montgomery 45:02

The Bible talks about being being wise, being wise and gentle, being gentle as dove, wise as a serpent. There's this wisdom piece that you have to have now that yes, you want structure, yes, you want order, and I believe the apostolic is all of those things. Structure, order, apostolic brings a, a mindset and a different kind of flow and function than the pastorial ministry. Pastoral ministry is that shepherding, that nurturing kind of thing. But there has to be this wisdom to flow in and out of that, because you can't just, you can't just Tell people and demand things anymore, because people are not taking that in this generation. This generation is different and this generation is actually standing up for themselves now. So you have to use a different kind of wisdom to be able to get because here's the thing, I'll say this you have to make relationship bigger, because if you start with the other piece with no relationship I heard someone say this rules without relationship creates rebellion.

Dr. Dowell 46:01

Whoo, come on, rewind that. I know they can rewind it. That was a bar. You dropped the bar right there.

Dr. Montgomery 46:07

Yeah, I heard it said rules without relationship equals rebellion. So a lot of times people try to push rules, rules, rules, but there's no real relationship. Because when you have relationship, then you can come a little different, because people know your heart, they know you're you really actually love them. You're not trying to do something. So you build a relationship first and I think that's the wisdom that we got to have as preachers. How do we build relationship to the place and build that relational capital that we can come and we can May have those hard conversations we need to have. We can have those battleship conversations we need to have. You know how do we do that? And I think it comes from building relationship properly.

Dr. Dowell 46:47

Wonderful man. This is so good. Before we move on, I know you did mention it. I don't know how you would categorize, because there's so many, when we're specially talking about having ministry outside of pulpit, ministry, ministering in different dimensions, kind of like that, those mountains conquering other mountains, and media and government, that we can do ministry in different dimensions besides in the pulpit. So I think that is what that mountain perspective, this seven mountains, yeah, well, how would you categorize? Could you talk about Myron Golden a moment? Yeah, and his influence, because I don't know, did that get you in other places and spaces? I think that might help ministers who may be just in a church paradigm to realize that how other influences can help us expand, and maybe you speak to that for a moment.

Finding Success and Purpose in Ministry

Dr. Montgomery 47:43

Yeah, absolutely. And before I even get to Myron, before that we had come into this really tough financial moment, my wife and I and we started looking for other sources of income because I mean I was pastoring, doing the whole thing, but I was like it's got to be something better, it's another way. I mean we got, we were broke. I always tell people we were living from negative balance to negative balance, not paycheck to paycheck, negative balance to negative balance. And I answered this ad that was looking for fitness coaches and because I was a martial arts instructor, I was like I can do that, but it happened to be an ad for a network marketing. It kind of was kind of sneaky, but it was an ad for a network marketing company. But what was incredible about that? We joined the company. It was a nutrition company but we didn't really grow like crazy in the company, like go, all of the different levels we did, we did well. But what was really incredible is that I started recognizing that what I do in the church I can take it into the marketplace because they hurt me speak at one of the local events and they were like wait a minute, you can, you got something to say. Then they asked me to come to the state events and it's like, wait a minute, you got something to say, you can help our organization. Then it became the regional events and so on and so forth. So what I was saying in church I started being able to say on stages for this network marketing company and it became a absolute game changer for me because I realized that I'm not stuck in the church, in the four walls, and from that we got.

Dr. Montgomery 49:18

We got irrationally passionate about personal development and we started going to personal development seminars and different groups. This other thing I realized is help pastors also when it comes to longevity. I realized that while going to church conferences was wonderful and I still go to them, I love church conferences, I love going and shouting and praising God and doing all the stuff I recognize there was a piece that I was missing and that was the personal development piece. My spiritual life was growing but my personal development was dying. So I was getting strong as a spiritual preacher, but my personal development, my mindset, understanding how to work through things on that personal level. So I got in the personal development field, which then led me down this trail of people.

Dr. Montgomery 50:08

First it started with a guy named Jonathan Sprinkles. We started going. He started helping us with our presentation. He did an event called Presentation Power. From there it went to, from Jonathan, it went to other people and finally my wife heard Myron online and we went to his conference.

Dr. Montgomery 50:25

And here's what was crazy. It was three people there, the Myron going, it was three people there. This is before all the YouTube, millions of followers, all this stuff. It's three people there and we made an immediate connection and what he did is he showed us that it's okay to make money and be a Christian, and and not just make money, but make a lot of money and be a Christian. He showed us that it was okay because in our, in my mind, I still always struggled when I thought about purpose, when I thought about impact, I only thought about doing it for the kingdom. And you're going to have your reward one day. You know, one of these old days, you're going to get your reward, myron. My hand sweet by by over the rear of George.

Dr. Montgomery 51:06

But Myron began to give permission to be a strong, consistent believer in Jesus but at the same time, have massive success monetarily, as a matter of fact. And so that's what. And so we talked about earlier, mentors. That's another one of our mentors, dr Myron Golden. As a matter of fact, I was on a call with him a little bit earlier this morning, and it just hearing what's possible. That's the other thing, because a lot again you think about this, dr Dow.

Dr. Montgomery 51:40

A lot of preachers once our time of preaching is over and you come to that moment when you got to either pass the baton, or some people don't pass the baton, unfortunately. They just, they just I would have in the hand. But when it comes to that moment, though this is important that I've seen so many preachers that get to that place where they're not, as they don't have the energy to use, to have, they can't preach like they used to preach and they start, they start financially, they go into this bankruptcy, I mean like literally, where they can't take care of their life, their house, because the only thing they stored up is a treasure in heaven. Myron gave us permission to store up our treasure on earth. He showed and he's showing us, because we're still working on it. He's showing us how to do that, and so that's what's been important with that relationship that we built there. So I want to say this so when we talk about.

Dr. Montgomery 52:36

You talk about earlier the mentorship and having these people in your life. For me it's like it's like a football team. A football team has your wide receiver coach. You have your quarterback coaches, your line coaches, your defensive coaches all of that For me.

Dr. Montgomery 52:50

I decided I want to surround myself with a coaching team. I got my speaking coaches. That just helped me with speaking keynotes, getting in front of the stage with the microphone. I have a storytelling coach that helps with just storytelling, andy Enriquez, with just storytelling how to build stories out strategically. I have then the financial coaches Dr Myron Gold, that's my financial coach. That's a part of that team. And then I have my pastors Bishop Gary McIntosh, still my pastor. I have my pastor. That's in my life. That's part of my coaching team. So I surround myself with a coaching team and everybody is different, everybody has a different metron, and so they all pour something different into my life and that's what helps me keep going. I got somebody I can go to for therapy if I need to. So I got all of that in my coaching staff. That helps me continue to grow, so I can create that longevity and ministry Whoa that's good.

Dr. Dowell 53:48

Do we have a coaching team, a coaching staff that coach us? Yes, man, that is great, let's go. I want you to do a little coaching for us now, to help real quickly. Before we kind of try to wrap it up, I want to go to a couple of things. What's some advice you have from, what's some coaching? What you have for I want to say young ministers, just though all ministers, but I want you to hit young ministers in particular. Then we'll just do whatever age, just kind of let you put on a coaching hat what you'll just share advice for those that are younger ministry, then we'll do for those that, regardless you know, their season, whatever, but just some advice to help them and getting unstuck, because I really felt that, because I wrote that down to help five full ministers get unstuck. Let me categorize it Speak to younger ministers first, your advice to them, and then we'll go to the next to get all of us unstuck.

Dr. Montgomery 54:42

Yeah. So the first thing is for younger ministry ministers that are just getting started out make sure that you're not playing the comparison game, because that comparison game will get you. That's the quickest thing to get you stuck in a place of feeling like you're not significant, you're not worthy, your message is not strong enough. You start comparing because you number one you don't know where people are in their journey. You can look at somebody on Instagram, but you don't know where they are in their journey. This could be 10 years to get to that picture on Instagram that you think is all that, or they, or you know on Instagram. You know how to fake it. So never, never, compare.

Dr. Montgomery 55:23

And here's three areas of danger with comparison. Number one you compare up, meaning you're looking at somebody and say I wish I could be like them and you're like, oh man, look, they got all that, they got all these members, they got all this. They don't everybody's flyer, they doing all that. Oh man, I wish I could travel like them. That's comparing up. That's the people you think are higher than you. The other one is comparing down, that's the people that you think are lower than you, and you're looking at them and saying, well, at least I ain't like them, you know. At least. At least you know I got some preaching. I'm not like them.

Dr. Montgomery 55:52

But I actually think the most dangerous comparison is comparing laterally. And this is why, because sometimes you can look at people who you feel like are on the same level and you can say, well, you know, I'm not going to pursue anything greater, because at least we're all here together, at least we're all right here, I'm okay, I'm okay. I'm not really, you know, my impact is not really what I know God can have, but at least I'm looking at in person over there. Okay, we're all doing the same thing, so I'm good. So you just compare laterally. And I learned that from sales, because when I would go have the sales job, I would go and look at the board and I found myself doing this. I was like, you know, I had a bad month and I would go look at the sales board like, okay, everybody else having a bad month too, so I'm good. And it made me play small.

Dr. Dowell 56:39

So that's good. I hear that lateral can limit you. Yes, so it's good to have friendships where I'm shopping on, you have a comfortable with them, but that's why you need to always have it all. So people that stretch you, people in some rooms that almost get intimidated you if you didn't know who you were.

Dr. Montgomery 56:58

Right, right. I love that you don't go in those rooms to compare. So I'll add to that.

Dr. Dowell 57:02

Add that to ministers, young ministers, I will say and this could be for anybody, really get anybody man, it's just good to get it on the onset so you won't struggle through years of doing that Exactly.

Dr. Montgomery 57:15

Yeah, that's the other thing getting the rooms you talk about stretching, you get in those rooms that are going to stretch you, not not for you to go in, compare, not for you to go and feel like you're less than before you can.

Dr. Dowell 57:24

So you can look at the future, let me say this pastor, this is I want you to speak to help get all five folks I think that's what you're speaking to. Let's get help or get us unstuck. I know you have an anointing to help us with our next, so I want you to release and speak to some things that you speak to us to help all ministers get, because some of them are stuck and some of them know it and some of them really don't know it that there's a more, there's a next. Speak to help us some principles, what you feel to help us get to our next.

Dr. Montgomery 57:54

Yes, absolutely so. Number one it was kind of what I was talking about exposure. Get into the spaces that stretch you. Exposure expands experience. So the more exposure you can get, the greater your experience becomes. So a lot of times you're stuck in a place that you're in is because that's the only thing you've been exposed to, right? So exposure expands experience. So get in a place of exposure. The next thing is to.

Dr. Montgomery 58:20

There's a book called mindset that talks about growth mindset versus fixed mindset. The fixed mindset is a mindset that doesn't ever want to change, like it's stuck. It's fixed. A growth mindset, a mindset, understands that change is necessary and you have to change at all times and you want to be. There's two types of change. There's revolutionary change and there's there's revolutionary change and there's evolutionary change. Now this is important.

Growth Mindset and Preaching Development

Dr. Montgomery 58:49

Evolutionary change is change that just happens. It's forced change. You just kind of you're sticking it, staring at you being the same and everything around you is changing and you're not changing with everything. Evolution is changing, the times are changing. Revolutionary change is when you put yourself in position to intentionally change, because I know things are going to change. I'm going to put myself in position to intentionally change, which means going back to, I got to have that growth mindset. If I have that growth mindset, I'm going to be an intentional change, always in a position of saying you know what? It's a new year. I've got to change because, in order to do something different, you always got to become something different. So we should be in this constant state of becoming. The reason I get stuck is because I did not become something different. I got stuck in who I was and didn't realize that who I was is an old version. I have to update, upgrade. I have to, I have to get new software and have to do something different.

Dr. Dowell 59:51

Hmm, the question just hits me Are we stuck in an old version of ourself? Hmm, stuck in an old version of ourselves? Yeah, and it hit me as you begin to lay that out, and that's why we got to go back and watch the replaying here again, to let it get in our spirit. That exposure, you said it brings experience, exposure expands experience. It expands your experience. So many times we have a limited experience because we have a limited exposure. Yeah, you keep experiencing the same thing, like called the Groundhog Day. Yeah, you having the same exposure. Yep, your life hasn't changed in because of what you're seeing.

Dr. Dowell 1:00:34

You, we need to get in the right rooms, yep, around the right people to do this. You know, pasatouren, you have to give me your word, because I know you're a man on your word that I'm a baby. Get you on another podcast, because I have in my heart that we need to talk about preaching and teaching, because this is a preaching and teaching machine. I mean, you know, and so we got to deal with that, and I know God bless you, you wrote a book in that and so I can, I, can I get your word because I want to dive into those things, and so I know if I won't have time in this podcast, but I want to be able to deal with some sermon prep and things of that. Can I get you out? So I want to get you out before I get. Can I get you? Can I get you back on? Yes, sir. You got me for sure. All right, good.

Dr. Dowell 1:01:25

So I got this, because I know you're a man of your word doesn't mean you put me on the spotlight. That's what I'm going to say, Like no, OK. Well good, you got to be wise, you got to be wise, so we'll definitely have to get you back on but to go and expand.

Dr. Dowell 1:01:43

But just give us a nugget, if you could, a preaching gym that it helped ministers, and we'll come back on and we'll, we'll unlay it all and we'll kind of look into some different aspects when we talk about different aspects of preaching or teaching or whatever. Yeah, can you give any gym that you feel to be valuable for ministers in terms of, because I think that helps us in our longevity. If we have a quote unquote preaching bag, teaching bag, that man, we have a two belt. We, we, we equipped in that area because we don't struggle as much and we see success because we don't see winds in the pulpit. It's beyond the pulpit. It can cause us to shy away and I'm sensing this even just coming up in my spirit, that many who will have a legitimate call because they hadn't had the development they've got the gyms like one you're going to give them they kind of shy away from the pulpit aspects of their ministry, ministry and they just lean in the other things. And I think if you really call, it's OK to lean in the other things but you still never should lose the pulpit ministry that you have.

Dr. Dowell 1:02:48

Or I mean that speaking and preaching. What you agree with that. I agree 100 percent. I think we can kind of, you know, we can go to the mountains. I'm in the government, I'm in the schools and I'm for all that I'm with that business. Good, that's great. But then I think that should be still sometime where you, you grace God's pulpit and you're still speaking because you're five fold, yeah, what you agree with that. Before we move on to give a gym Kind of speak to that.

Dr. Montgomery 1:03:12

Yeah, absolutely so I think that one of the things people do is that they're either going to be and this is a whole, it's be a whole. Nother hour for me to break this down, but there's a. Most people have a levitical mindset when it comes to their approach to ministry, and what that is is the levitical mindset. If you remember, the Levites were bound to the church, ok, the bound to the temple. They couldn't inherit land, they couldn't have dominion. They, their money, came from the church, their food came from the temple. They were a levitical priest. That's all they had. When Jesus came.

Dr. Montgomery 1:03:46

In Hebrews, it tells us that the order of Aaron was passed off the scene, which is a levitical priesthood, and Jesus came in order of Melchizedek. Melchizedek was king and priest this is what you're talking about right here King and priest, which means the king understands the market, the marketplace, the priest understands the church, and so we are now under the order of Melchizedek, which means that we should be able to be versatile. We should be able to be in the pulpit and preach, but also I can be a king in the marketplace. I can be a priest and a king, and that's the. That's the, what I call range that you need to have Wonderful and I think we can get out of balance with that.

Dr. Dowell 1:04:33

Just being levitical and just bound to the pulpit. Then some of the levitical and just bound to the pulpit, then some, because they didn't develop the gift and they didn't get the wins that they felt, they didn't get the success, the the fruit from it. And the reason because maybe they never had mentorship in it, they never had modeling in it. So then now they just come king and leave that, especially if you're five fold.

Dr. Dowell 1:05:02

I don't think we can ever just leave that all together. So when you give a gym or something that you might help people in there preaching and development so they can get some wins, you know within the pulpit or feel that they've been effective.

Dr. Montgomery 1:05:17

One of the most important things that I discovered that changed the game for me is this statement here that I, that God just gave me some years ago, and he said don't preach, don't study to preach, study to live and preach out of the overflow. Don't study to preach, study to live and preach out of the overflow. That's the game changer.

Dr. Dowell 1:05:44

Wow, Preach out of the overflow. Don't study preach, you know. It made me laugh. That's why I love it. I'm the conversation man. This is not a program. We're just at the table. Everybody else that just pulling up the benefit.

Dr. Montgomery 1:05:57

Yeah, they just joined. They get to join in.

Dr. Dowell 1:06:00

I'm laughing because I saw the exchange. I saw an exchange on social media when someone called himself giving you the business about studying yeah, preaches. They didn't get it Right. They didn't get it. They were trying to say, like he's not saying you know, you don't study Right, don't just study to get a sermon. Exactly, he said I'm going to preach if you don't study. And you try to explain to him. I think you just said like whatever man, you made a statement, you made some statement. I forgot what statement you made. Like, if you don't need more, you just say man, I'm through talking to you.

Dr. Montgomery 1:06:46

Right, yeah, it wasn't even necessary to continue that conversation.

Dr. Dowell 1:06:52

What was the statement you made to a pastor? I don't remember. I don't know what it was, but so for those that don't get it, pastor Thor made that statement about preach out of your overflow. You know study and then when you preach, you are preaching out of the overflow of your study that you're just not going to the word to get a sermon Right. That's the whole essence of what you're saying right now. Don't just get in the word when you're trying to find a sermon.

Dr. Montgomery 1:07:21

Yeah.

Dr. Dowell 1:07:21

Get in the word. When you're not looking for a sermon, then when it's time for you to have a sermon, you already have sermon material, is that it? Exactly. That's it. When somebody else told you they didn't get it. Did you have?

Dr. Montgomery 1:07:37

to block the rest of the story. Oh, my goodness.

Dr. Dowell 1:07:42

Did you have to block that person or whatever, because they didn't get it, man?

Dr. Montgomery 1:07:45

I don't think I blocked them, but I stopped communicating. I'm not repondent.

Dr. Dowell 1:07:51

But that's a great gym though, because if you're not careful, you'll get preachers getting a cycle the only time they're really not just reading your Bible but actually studying it.

Dr. Montgomery 1:08:05

Right, and then what happens is you see people, they're up all night long because they got, they got a preacher on Sunday and they like they up all night and then. So what we do is make it a badge of honor. You know, I was up until eight in the morning with this labor, with this word, and up it, but probably the truth is that was the first time you studied All month.

Dr. Dowell 1:08:26

Yep, and you're preaching out of a deficit instead of out of overflow. Yeah, exactly, you know I got past the frame. Man, when you study that, now you, you put that in your notes, you put it to the side. So now you already got materials and things that you that you gyms. What you weren't looking for for a sermon he was looking for God and he gave you a sermon, right Exactly. You were looking for principles and he gave you some to preach. So that's what we do. That's toward.

Dr. Dowell 1:08:55

This has been an awesome interview with you. I've enjoyed this this time with you. I'm looking forward to having you on again. But as we get ready to close, can you share maybe one last thing with what our ministers that may be in a struggle with dealing with challenges, you know, trying to get the ministry started, might be pastors that are struggling, might be those who are ministers. They they're not just started but they don't understand all this social media stuff and they just feel maybe lost or life issues and they're just dealing with challenges as five full ministers. Would you have a word of encouragement to share with them that you know might just speak to them, or whatever challenges that may mean to minister to them. I really felt that I want to give you that chance just to kind of minister to them and encourage them, whatever challenges or struggle that they may be having.

Dr. Montgomery 1:09:47

Yeah, definitely. You know, I was going through this really rough time in ministry several years ago and it's just really rough. I didn't know what direction to take and what to do. And I walked into Bishop Tony Miller's office and I began to just tell him all the stuff that was going on, this is happening, these people leaving, this is all this stuff, all the ministry stuff that happens, can't seem to get ministry moving. And he looked at me and said, tori, just keep showing up. And when he said that that is what I've held on to in every single struggle, every single challenge, all I know is I have to keep showing up. And if I keep showing up, it's going to turn around, it's going to change, it's going to work out. But I'm going to keep showing up because this is what I'm called to do. There's a bigger picture to this.

Dr. Montgomery 1:10:36

So I would say that to anyone who's going through right now your, your challenges, doesn't look like it's working, doesn't look like your ministry is moving, growing, maybe even looking like it's declining. Whatever it is, you're called to this, so just keep showing up. God's going to do us. God's going to do something big in your ministry, in your life, in your, in your calling, with your purpose, if you just keep showing up. And I'll end with this my one of my friends, who I talked to today as well, andy Enriquez, said he said this. The way he says it is this he says show up for your life, because if you don't, no one else will. So I'll end with that.

Dr. Dowell 1:11:17

Wow, drop the mic. Wow, that's a mic drop. Show up for your life, because if you don't, no one else will Wow. I'm going to give you credit now. You're the inspiration for it, and so that, as you credit what I heard in that, if you show up whatever you need, god will cause it to show up.

Dr. Montgomery 1:11:38

Yes, you need strength, people, resources.

Dr. Dowell 1:11:42

If you keep showing up, whatever it is that you need to show up, God to make sure that it show up, but if you stop showing up, if you stop, then it'll never show up because you stop showing up. Yes, Wow, that's, that's. That's wonderful, that's a story man. This has been such a blessing. Will you share again for our listeners how they can get in contact with you? Maybe maybe some pastors of different people listening may want you to come in and be a blessing to the people, maybe want you to come in and do some coaching for the business, so you know sales and all that multiple level marketing. You just have such a wealth of experience but just may want to reach out to you or may be in the Oklahoma City area and may want to stop by a church. Can you share with them how they can get in contact with you again?

Dr. Montgomery 1:12:28

Yeah, absolutely. The church is Ignite Church Global. That's the name of our church in Oklahoma City. So of course, we're on social media with Ignite Church Global on Facebook, instagram, and then my personal handles are actually Tori Montgomery on all of my social media. So that's Facebook, instagram and TicToc. So Tori Montgomery and you can reach me there and definitely would love to connect with anyone out there.

Dr. Dowell 1:12:53

Amen. Well, we thank God for you, dr Montgomery. This has been such a blessing man. I'm looking forward to the next conversation. We have such a kindred spirit. You know, the short time that I known you a couple of years now been such a blessing. Each time we have a conversation, man, it's always like this. I'm looking forward to our next one together and I'm glad all of you that's been with us today. We pray that you've been blessed. We pray, now that you have eaten well, that you are going to excel.

Dr. Dowell 1:13:22

Be sure, if you haven't be sure, that you do like and subscribe so you can get out of our podcast when they come out. We believe there'll be a blessing to you. Also, be sure you look in the show notes. You can get a transcript from today's conversation as well. Also, you will look in the show notes. You'll see my link tree that I have a book that I wrote entitled about longevity in ministry how to have sustained ministry. It's just a free resource that I want to bless you with.

Belief in Your Destined Greatness

Dr. Dowell 1:13:49

You're looking at show notes. You'll find the link that you can avail yourself to that book. I believe that it will be a blessing to you. Also, if this podcast, if it's a blessing to you. We would appreciate your support on any level. If you look down in the show notes as well, you'll see a place where you can donate five dollars a month. Whatever is your heart, it'll help us continue in this podcast. We appreciate your support. Be sure you give us a review. I'm looking forward to the next time together and I want you to never to forget, no matter where you are, what you're going through in life. God has destined you for greatness. I believe in you. I believe that you're going to live better. I believe that you're going to do better. I believe that you're going to release and experience all the brilliance that God has for you. Until our next time together, keep moving forward.

Dr. Montgomery 1:14:39

Thank you, dr Tory thank you so much, god bless.