Longevity in Ministry with Dr. Clinton Cornelius

Unlock the secrets to a ministry that burns with passion and stands the test of time as I  join forces with Pastor Clinton Cornelius. In our heart-to-heart, we dissect the essentials for a vibrant calling, contrasting the unfortunate burnout of many five-fold ministers.  Pastor C, drawing on his 38 years of ministry experience, does more than just recount his journey; he illuminates the path for those eager to rekindle their spiritual enthusiasm and comprehend the 'why' that sustains the heartbeat of their ministry.

Navigating the vast waters of ministry can be daunting, but finding your God-ordained place is like slipping into the right pair of shoes—it just fits. Pastor C and I navigate the journey of self-discovery within our ministry calling, emphasizing the significance of leveraging your God-given strengths. Pastor C's detailed metaphors and personal stories blend the idea of 'Finding Your Lane' with practical advice, leading ministers to a rewarding service where misalignment is avoided, and personal development is a certainty.

As we wrap up our conversation, Pastor C imparts lessons on the symbiotic relationship between ministry and family life, blending wisdom with practical advice for those balancing the sacred with the everyday. He shares how mentorship has sculpted his path and offers a beacon of hope for young ministers navigating the choppy seas of early ministry. Our episode culminates with a rich discussion on sermon crafting, where Pastor C reveals his framework for messages that resonate and transform. Join us for this thought-provoking session that promises to equip, inspire, and challenge ministers at any stage of their journey.

Transcript

Speaker 1 0:09

Welcome to the Five Fold Food Podcast hosted by Dr Robert F Dowell, where ministers receive the spiritual nourishment they need to succeed. The Word of God declares and he gave some apostles and some prophets and some evangelists and some pastors and teachers for the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, the edifying of the body of Christ. Prepare to receive revelation, wisdom and insight to empower your ministry for victory. Now let's eat.

Dr. Dowell 0:41

Praise the Lord. God bless each and every one of you. Welcome to another edition of Five Fold Food. I'm your host, Dr Robert F Dial. I'm so delighted that you are here with us for another podcast. I always remember, no matter where you might be listening to this podcast. I don't know if you're on iTunes or Spotify, Apple Podcast. Be sure that you do subscribe so that you can get all of our latest podcasts and also go give us a review. We will appreciate a five-star review, so that we will that. We'll put this in the algorithm. It'll help spread the message. So give us a review and let us know how the podcast is blessing you.

Dr. Dowell 1:20

If you're on YouTube or one of our video platforms, be sure that you subscribe as well. Also, leave us a comment. Let us know how you are enjoying the podcast. Also, if you look down in the show notes, you'll see a place where you can donate and support. We appreciate any level of support, maybe $5 a month. However, you may want to support the podcast. We really would appreciate it. I'm excited for another podcast. I'm joined by our good friend, who's no stranger to our podcast. He's kind of like my partner in crime, Dr Clinton Canillas Pastor C as we so affectionately call him. Welcome to another edition of Five-Fold.

Dr. Cornelius 2:01

Food. Hey, how you doing. Pastor Dile man, pleasure to be here.

Dr. Dowell 2:06

Man Looking forward to it today I'm excited to have you. For those that don't know Pastor Canillas, a little background about him. Pastor C, I know you've been on here many times. We always have new people. He passed us in Fort Me, Florida. Pastor C, how long have you been in pastoral ministry?

Dr. Dowell 2:26

I've been in pastoral ministry for 28 years 28 years of pastoral ministry and overall ministry, even before you took the pastoral whether it's evangelistic ministry. How long altogether? 38 years, 38 years altogether, amen. He does a lot of things in the community. I think that you are a perfect fit, pastor C, for what we want to dive into today. We're talking about longevity in ministry. That's the theme that I've been dealing with in some of our previous podcasts. We want to continue to deal with this theme of longevity in ministry. I would think after 38 years of ministry and you're still in the game you've got something to share concerning this area of ministry. I want to encourage those that are watching and listening with us. If you'll look, also in our show notes, you'll see a link tree. I have a book that I wrote about helping you with longevity in ministry. We want to be a blessing to you. So when you get through this to the podcast, be sure that you get the link, be sure that you can get a free copy of that book. But after 38 years, pastor C, I think that you have a lot to share in this area of ministry.

Dr. Dowell 3:39

What saddens my heart, pastor C, as I've shared in some of our previous podcasts, is that when I run across individuals who had a call of God we're talking about a five-fold call of God in their life and they're no longer walking in that call. You see them five years, 10 years later, they're still safe Thank God for salvation. Just working a job or whatever they're doing, but no longer working in that area as an evangelist or pastor or teacher, no longer really walking that five-fold call. But then also saddens my heart To Pastor C you are running to individuals and I know you have as well that many years ago they answered the call, they began to walk in the call and now they still acknowledge the call. They may still have a title and function somewhat in it, but there's no more passion in that area of ministry. It's like ministry, it's like a side issue in the life. It's not like a primary thing in the life, it's kind of like just a side thing that they do here and there. There's no passion, there's no moving forward in that area, there's nothing that they're birthing in that area.

Dr. Dowell 4:49

I believe we can have pastors, even those that may still be carrying the title of a pastor, pastor C, and still may be in pastoral ministry, but they've lost the passion. They are stale, stagnant and stuck and the ministry that they lead are stale, stagnant and stuck, and I believe when we move into those things, whether we're not moving in at all or we're stale, stagnant and stuck, I believe that's not having the longevity that we should have in ministry. When we talk about longevity, pastor C, I'm talking about thriving, not just surviving, not just still having the title of evangelist but not evangelizing, not having the title of a pastor but being stale, stagnant and stuck. I want to get from you and that's why I'm grateful for these series of interviews I've got to put in my heart to talk with individuals that got some time in the game, they got some skin in the game, that are yet thriving, and so one of the ways I like to begin this series of interviews, pastor C, is to kind of deal with what I believe is the foundational parts of a person that's still striving and those that have longevity, meaning that, what motivates them, what is the driving force in sustaining your long and passionate time in ministry?

Dr. Dowell 6:10

In other words, what's your why, pastor C? Because what we do is we see people's what. I can see what you're doing, but I think we get into the mechanics of understanding the why of what you do, this, how we can tap into the longevity that you have. So can you share with us, pastor C, what is the driving force that's got you to stay in ministry and be thriving? I mean, your ministry's always moving forward after 38 years?

Dr. Cornelius 6:39

One of the things for me is that I think the key thing for me to keep me moving is recognizing the call. And because the call is there, standing my lane in it, and people, my love for people is the people. It's the need that I see this there. You know, I call it the Macedonian call, and so, after having the Macedonian call, I feel like this is the place I'm supposed to be at. And so what keep me moving in there and motivated and keep my passion is unpiked in the lives of others. And so you never finish it Right when you.

Dr. Cornelius 7:20

For me, I have to keep doing it. You have to keep doing it because you never really reach. You never really reach that goal line. In a sense, I keep striving towards the goal because somebody else come up that needs some help, some other area that you're needed in. So one of the things to keep me going, I guess in a nutshell, is the Macedonian call stays in my ear. I'm constantly reminding it that this is where I belong at, this is where I feel that. So now I want to make sure I do what I'm called to do with the passion and keeping my focus on winning when I say that is.

Dr. Cornelius 8:00

I've always said I don't get caught up in counting the people, but I like to stay accountable to him and so in me staying accountable. So how I define the set success for me might be different on somebody that's defined success. So I don't look at what Pasadal is doing, what's going on in new life, and based that upon what I'm successful, because what my passion is the impact people to keep going forward in the lane that I'm in, and so I judge now. I compare myself, not by myself. I'm not comparing myself to others, I just think and that's what keeps me going Knowing you ain't quite reached it yet, because somebody else needs you Good.

Dr. Dowell 8:45

I noticed you said too, you talked about your lane, so I assume then you're talking about your pastoral lane and your love for people, my pastoral lane, my love for people.

Dr. Cornelius 8:59

The truth of the matter because of the community town I'm in, I'm more of a community path as well, so it's small, so everybody know everyone. So one of the other things for me, I know that's where I fit. I always make sure I work hard on not trying to wear armor that don't like what's happened with solid day but armor that don't fit me, that I just get in that lane of mine. I stay in that lane as that pastor, even as that community pastor. Recognizing is something that's asked of me, that might not be asked of another pastor, but that my passion, seeing at the end that folks is of the better. I'm out there.

Dr. Cornelius 9:38

I believe the job of the church and that I lead peaceful as the leader and our job is to impite people. We want to impite people. I want to impite my city. When people go into a city and they just get in there, what they do, they always ask them where they're from, at Where's City Hall, where is that? So when people come into the city people, that's a part of this city I don't want them to see a rundown, beat down, discouraged church called peaceful, but instead I want them to see something describing is doing something that's happening where others say you want any help, you want somebody to bless you, go to peaceful. So that's the thing that keep me driving and going.

Dr. Dowell 10:22

That's good. Let's unfold that for others. Pastor, see, because what it hits me is that you found your assignment, you know where you fit your assignment. What would you say that others that why do people lose the passion they lose this month and they're still in that pastoral role? What would you speak to them? That I know we're just not speaking to pastor, but those that might be there what do you think happened? They lost sight of the love for the people. How does that happen, you know? Can you speak to that to help them?

Dr. Cornelius 10:54

I think one of the things that you have to do you got to search yourself, search your heart, search your heart and do make sure you're in the right lane.

Dr. Dowell 11:03

You got that.

Finding Your Lane

Dr. Cornelius 11:05

I'm sorry, break that down about being in the right lane. When I'm saying in the right lane, making sure you're in what you're called to do, that you know your assignment and all of our assignments are different. You need to know your assignment and that's why I made this statement and do not compare your assignment to somebody else's assignment. I call it, you just do your job. You know me, you're always talking sports. So in football, on the line, I need the guard, I need the tackle, I need I need the center. No, you just take on your block, you do your part, you need your part, you own up the hole and I need that running back to hit that hole.

Dr. Cornelius 11:44

So what the question become? What show assignment? You stick to that. So it won't be telling me. But the linebacker you know the linebacker came in and I picked him up because I I thought he was going to skip. No, we got a bike, is going to pick him up if that bike stay in his lane. So everybody just getting in lane. But how you do that? Now you have to search and make sure this way you belong in that your calling is not a mama call, the daddy call, a people call. Somebody just told you, you look like a preacher, you look like a pastor, so you ought to do this here.

Dr. Dowell 12:21

Well, let me ask this see, because this is a real current theme, I think the Holy Spirit in this and I see this a common theme in this series of interviews, that that that are not even related, that you haven't heard each other's interviews, the series of interviews is this about this assignment thing, finding your lane. Speak to those, whether they're all profit, advantages, whatever. Give some some tips, what you do that you can, so that we'll know, like, how do we find our alignment, our call, like I know I'm a pastor, how do we find it? Can you give some tips or just some pointers how to find your lane or your call, so we'll know what our assignment is?

Dr. Cornelius 13:05

First of all, I would say either the shoe fit us to be guys too small. When the shoe too small, it hurts you to walk in. When the shoes too big, they keep slipping and you can't keep your balance. What I'm trying to say normally what helps you find your lane, your shoes fit where you at, you fit there, you know it. So it ain't all, it ain't work for you, not necessarily what I call bad work, sweat and work. Yeah, I do sweat and work. Do you know what I call that good work? Because this way I belong, but I have to work harder at what I'm not called to do. So what I want to make sure if, if I can do this without struggle or strain. Struggle or strain where it almost come, and almost it just come naturally to you. So you sometimes struggle with being able to explain how you do it without it being a problem, because you know what. This is what I supposed to do. But when I get off into something that I'm supposed to do, the shoe don't fit, it keeps sliding off. So you know what I'm getting aggravated with the shoe.

Dr. Cornelius 14:13

My little grandson, one of your grandson. He hates shoes on, so after a while he take them, he throws them off. He don't want them on his feet. You know he don't want them there. And that's how you get with ministry because it don't fit well. So you get to a point you do lose your passion because you don't fit there.

Dr. Cornelius 14:32

So how do I get that like? Search your heart. I'm going to make sure you heard from God. Understand, as I've been always taught, is different type of calling you are. You already know, and I'm preaching to the choir here that first call is when, when you're called in the salvation. In the salvation, and I and I share with people oftentimes, once you get saved, what do you end up having? You want to tell everybody about Jesus, but that don't mean you're an evangelist, that just mean you save, you love the Lord and you want everybody else to know. But when that evangelistic thing come on you, you know it, you fit in it, and so it's things that you pick up and it's something that just don't aggravate you, you just do it, and it might be the other people. I don't know why. I don't feel it, because you ain't called to it, you don't get it. I hope I made that call.

Dr. Dowell 15:22

Oh man, no, that's good. So what I'm hearing in this, then we have to. Some people have abandoned the call. Some have gotten stuck, stale and stagnant in the call because they haven't found the right fit. They they just decided, since it didn't fit, they threw it away, or they just kind of stayed there and tolerated it instead of finding the right fit. That's why they don't have no passion. They've gotten stale and stagnant. So we have to keep praying, seeking, doing different aspects of ministry till we find where we fit at.

Dr. Dowell 15:57

And one way I'm hearing is the things that I'm gravitating to is helping me when I feel like there's some things that happen fast to see. Well, I, naturally I want to go and do it. I naturally want to get in and help people. Well, I have to these areas. Tell myself, pastor Dow, be sure that you don't want it more than them. That's an area that I must be called to because I'll go in and want to do this particular thing, or in it, if I see somebody have a need or something in an area where I feel like I can get help, they don't have to pull my teeth.

Dr. Dowell 16:29

I'm chopping that to bit to push. So that lets me know that's part of my aim and my level. Everybody know that's around me. Just sit like if it comes to helping somebody birth a product or a book or something they're supposed to do, those things just flow in me. To want to help people push stuff out of them, that's part of my call to help you get in you what's in you. I don't put it in you but have to get it out so that you're helping me to realize that's part of my fit, that's part of my lane. That's when I keep my passion. If I stay in those areas, that I'm helping people get in them was out of them. That you just helped me with that.

Dr. Cornelius 17:09

And see what, what, what for me? I love feeding people. I love feeding people and caring for people. That's my thing. So sometimes, sometimes, my wife will say, pernere, I don't know how you take all that on. You don't seem to be tired because it's what I do. So I have to do something to remind me that I'm only one person, because, hey, if you call that's what I do, I tend to, even, as this church have grown, I can't reach everybody here, but man, I show try, I try to put my hands on everyone that I possibly can, because I got that shepherd mentality. I want to attend every one of you and see, that's my fit and leadership to you, love to me. Yeah, see, that's my fit. So it come.

Dr. Cornelius 17:57

I had a meeting earlier today, none to do with my church, none to do with my church, that I stepped into working work to meet him with this organization and got through it and walked out and the lady said to me, said to me this can you do? You're done? I say yes, I'm done. I got to move on to another meeting. She's saying we really appreciate, but had nothing to do with the church. And my point is at that point I was leading. I my lease at that point. I was leading something you know and all that. Oh, it's amazing how you put that together. How do you got that? I can't even tell you. I just flow in that and I move on to it.

Dr. Dowell 18:36

But that's why I'm comfortable at and see where I feel that when I'm starting to gather people who've lost the passion, who feel still stagging and stuff somewhere. They've lost sight of their assignment and the lane that they're supposed to have.

Dr. Dowell 18:52

Correct Because something they got to get back to that, to that, to that lane Correct. That helped us. You often mentioned in our podcast, so I want you to go maybe deeper and share a broad about our bishop I want to talk about. I believe this helps us in our longevity in our ministry influential mentors and I know Bishop Holcomb has been one for you, apostle Holcomb, for me as well Can you share about how Bishop Holcomb, what particular ways he impacted your ministry? You know the influence that he had and how that has contributed to you having a longevity and ministry and maybe other mentors as well, if there's other mentors, and how you see that helps in your longevity Truly apostle Holcomb was definitely, definitely one.

Multiple Mentors and Longevity

Dr. Cornelius 19:41

But when the Lord blessed me with with, I had different mentors that I pulled from. That helped me in different areas that help me with my longevity. My, my only pastor, my only pastor what bit all my life I was on the one pastor. That was Pastor Pollock. That was Pastor Pollock, and so I came after him here, peaceful, but from a little boy, he mowed me, he shaped me. So what I learned from Pastor Pollock? Pastor Pollock know how to love on the people and how to pastor. Now, in my opinion, he might not be the greatest preacher, but you could not pass to him he, and so I learned that from him. He mentored me with that. He taught me how to have the people, how to use people. You know how to treat people, how how to manage people, how to lead and how to how to be a shepherd. I learned that from Pastor Pollock.

Dr. Cornelius 20:44

Not only from Pastor Pollock, but another local pastor have also passed, like Pastor Pollock, who actually married me, that my wife was pet, was a member in the him and that was the pastor George Williams. He was more of a community pastor. So I learned that from him that someone in our community will pass away, but he was still short back the throne. It wasn't a member of his church, but he was still short back the throne. He he was known for always reaching out, doing something. So I watched how he did in the city. So that's where I gleaned from him. He mentored me. I will call him, ask him. I learned a lot from him and then the hook him God. But I learned from Bishop Hockham is how to lead leaders. I watched how Bishop Hockham lead leaders, so the leaders in my church. How do you lead leaders not just me and a lead, but you got to lead leaders, how to pull the best out of leaders. I learned that and also how Bishop Hockham could pass the Omega church. What make it feel like it's not made up. That's what I learned with him. He was hands on, no matter what level he was at. You still feel like when you came in the room with Bishop Holcomb, even though there's hundreds of people around him, you feel like you was the most special person in the room because he made that to you. So he know how to carry that. In the way Bishop Holcomb shared the word. I was always taken by that, so I glean that and all this helped me with my longevity.

Dr. Cornelius 22:22

I watched how Bishop would do and the other thing Bishop did to me was the way he loved his wife and demonstrated that. The other two pastor Pollock was the same cause I actually lived in his home and then Pastor Williams, like I said, my wife was under him and his wife I mean she was close to their family, so I seen that demonstrated with them also. But with Bishop Holcomb I watched how he always treated Pastor Valerie over to see Valerie and how he always spoke of her and like with their age, but it was still in love. So that was one of the things I watched his marriage and his life. That helped me and that's where Bishop Holcomb helped me out there. And then I'm gonna be honest with you, man. No, captain, you have been influenced on me. You have really been influenced on me with our relationship and watching you, how you move, how you do what you're doing. Now. Some of the skill sets that you have have always been an influence with me and all that have helped me with my longevity.

Dr. Cornelius 23:29

I think it's important to have people in your life and speaking in your life, man.

Dr. Dowell 23:33

Yeah, and the sentiment goes likewise. So with being friend tours, you had that same impact. So when I'm gathering here, pastor C, and I want you to help, I want to kind of put a boat on it. Put in perspective for our mentors is that when people see you and they see 38 years of ministry, almost 30 years of pastoral ministry as well, and not only that, you're still doing it, but you're still thriving, you're still taking territory, you're still excited, still passionate, not burnt out but burning on fire.

Dr. Dowell 24:09

They'll see the what, but what I'm hearing is part of the why is the people and the different things that they deposit over the life that's causing you to have this now? So what you say is that some people they didn't get it from people. They didn't get it, or they got it from one person because I know we deal with the mentor thing. Is it that they just focus on one person? Or they didn't learn their lessons or they forgot the lesson? Why do you see it, then, that people like that? You think there's a lot of people that didn't have the mentorship and that's why they no longer had the passion, or they just didn't have a broad enough range.

Dr. Cornelius 24:51

I think that's too far. I think both of that could be the case. Some didn't have the mentors because some feel like they're alone ranger, they can take this on without any help, and you can easily be deceived if you don't ask the right questions to the right people. So you almost think some people I think you're into it down to be honest with your man, with the mentality that they got to be the brightest one. They got to be the brightest light in the room. And I believe for me, when I walk in a certain room, I don't want to be the brightest one and even if it seems as I am, I try to go dim so I can learn from the one that's in the room. So me, you always say I already know what I know. I'm trying to pull out what they know, regardless of what age, who they are. So I think part of the problem, some don't have that mentality. And then others didn't learn. They was too busy. They was too busy, caught up in what they was doing and they didn't learn from the ones that I believe the Lord placed there. But you have to have an open heart and a willingness to armor yourself and sit under people.

Dr. Cornelius 26:08

So often what we do is we what we do, and the scripture never tells us to do this, even as pastors. It says we rule over, not overrule, and what I mean by that is is that as pastor, scripture, we rule over, but I never overrule people. So, pastor Parler, I never overruled him. When he spoke to me, I took that. Well, I always liked it, but I took it because I needed it for now. That's why I'm still here, because some of the things he taught me, that he said to me, the things Pastor Williams did and was speak in my life when he set me in French and I feel that we got married, the things he counseled and said to me, that that's why I feel like I'm still married. I still remember those things that he put in that he said I watched Bishop, how Bishop moved, the way, bishop, how many things that I sometimes thought, oh no, bishop, I don't know why Bishop doing that this way. And now later I look back say, man, I'm never using some wisdom there. That was some wisdom how he maneuvered through that. So I learned lessons from it. I learned lessons and I do think you got to take notes, but apply the notes and a lot of the time we think we already got it. I know it, so we miss out and you definitely got to have somebody there. If you plan on that in a while you want somebody to reach out, ask somebody hey man, can you help me? I'm looking for somebody to mentor me and whatever area you is, whatever area you might be in Now, if you notice the ones that I spoke to, each one of those was pastors.

Dr. Cornelius 27:44

Now, each one of them was pastors. Pastors Williams, like I told you, more community, but he passed his own church. Pastor Pollock was a great leader that I pulled from and I told you what Bishop did. But you notice, I mentioned nothing about where I pulled from. I'm preaching from where I got that from, because neither one outside of Bishop the other two I didn't really pull that, so I got others that I still listen to now. I got others that I have been listening to for years and most of them are mentors from a distance. They don't know me, I don't know them, but from a distance I pull and I learn and I do a lot of read and I consider those as mentors that feed me also.

Dr. Dowell 28:32

I'm seeing a common theme, that those that got the longevity have multiple mentors. Yes, some may be from a distance, some may be by hands on, but they're not limited to one. That's a common thing, pastor. See, that I'm seeing and what I'm hearing is then, if we're gonna have the longevity, we have to pick up what they're putting down. Yes, that's correct.

Dr. Dowell 29:00

And when we're with mentors, not just try to impress them but to learn, and I think that's a mistake that many make. Let's go further in it. I think part of I think what helps us has the longevity is that when we have mistakes, that we learn from them. I like to say we grow from them and we refuse to die from them. I often say it like this if I make a mistake, is that I'm gonna learn from this, grow from this, but I refuse to die from this. That's good. And so can you discuss maybe a mistake you made in ministry and maybe a lesson that it taught you, because I think this will help us, as ministers, peer into your world and learn what you've learned from your mistakes, and I think that's part of your longevity. You have learned from your mistakes because evidently your mistakes that you made it didn't stop you, so can you share maybe one, maybe a lesson that might be beneficial for the other ministers that helped them have some?

Dr. Cornelius 30:00

longevity. I'm glad you said one, because I'm telling you, man, let's take up the rest of your time Because I don't make a lot of mistakes in this and learn from them. But one that hit me in particular for me, because it covered ministry and my personal life is I was out of balance. I was out of balance and a mistake I made was that all I did was focus on church and working, working the ministry. That's all I at one point. That's all I focused on. I was running when I was younger man. I was moving, I was taking different speaking engagements everywhere, still passionate here at Peaceful, and I amen, I'm not in no way I was all credited to the law. But where I messed up, I became, in my eyes, cover, how the people's calling me.

Dr. Cornelius 30:58

I'm raised up in this place, I was the golden boy. So since I was the golden boy, I was running that thing, man, I was here, I was there, I was doing that and I had no balance in my life, so I wouldn't have a lot of fun. Now let me tell you, I was still married man, so I didn't put in the work I needed to with my marriage. So all these were some mistakes, I know you say for ministry, but it tied in with ministry. That's why I say it was a mistake and I had to learn from it.

Dr. Cornelius 31:30

I had to learn from it because I had got to a point of burnout. So I was burnout and because of the burnout I couldn't really get peace for everything they needed. Every time I stood in the pool pit I could bring a message for us, I can give them a little shot, but mentally I was burnt out from other things. So who missed out was my wife, my children, because I was so burnt out. So when I came home I couldn't give you everything I needed to give them because I was burnt out.

Balancing Ministry and Family

Dr. Cornelius 32:06

And then from the frustration from my wife, when I came back I couldn't give peace for everything because I was burnt out, because I didn't know how to balance like I needed to. So that was one of the mistakes I had to learn from that. I need to have balance in ministry and that marriage, home, raising your kids, is just as important as the ministry, because I feel like my home reflects my ministry, so I can win more over in the ministry. When they look beyond the ministry and they see how me and French is, they see how it is with me and my kids, so I think that's important and that's what I miss the best.

Dr. Dowell 32:51

Family. And it's so important because I think it's that two-edged sword that ministers have to be mindful of. That's why I so appreciate these conversations, because these conversations bring it to the forefront of our mind and they won't catch us off guard, meaning that it's the two-edged sword, because the very thing that I'm passionate about I found my lane, I found my assignment, all the things that you just mentioned. I found what I fit it fit. So, since it fit in my passion, I want to do it. I want to give myself wholly to it. I'm sold out to this thing. I get joy from this thing. It's the Macedonian you call.

Dr. Dowell 33:32

But on the other side of that, if you don't balance that, when I'm seeing fast, I see the mistake. It's still realized that there's other obligations that you have and one of them, the primary, is your family. You have an obligation to your family, your own health, that if you don't be mindful of that, you can make a mistake and say like, yeah, I found my Macedonian call, I found what I do, but then you, this is what you should not have. You should have done but not leave the other undone. So I appreciate you bringing that.

Dr. Cornelius 34:00

OK, I just finished saying to what you need in that, what helped me, what I had learned, is wisdom, and what I mean by the wisdom, because there is a time when I got a call and the wisdom of that was at this moment. I need to go deal with this memo, because this particular thing is a crisis that need to be dealt with. Yes, yes, jameir got a game, but this thing here now is a crisis. So, having wisdom in it, when I know that it's time, as those songs will go, when do you fold them? You know I hold them you need to have wisdom to know when is the time where I have to explain to one of my children I can't be there to the chili, the deer, because such and such just died, dad, it got to be there, got to be there.

Dr. Cornelius 34:52

So, understanding. I don't want people to miss that by saying you got to understand that the wisdom of it is knowing when to go and when to stay, what to do, because it is a double S sword, so you have to pray much for it. I had to learn this, I had to learn this, and that's what made me of the better and, I think, why I'm still here, having the wisdom in the Lord, show me when is the time that I had to tell peaceful, I can't do that because my son is going to be in Tennessee playing ball. I'm going to fly there, I'm going to be there that Saturday. I can't do this particular thing on that day.

Dr. Dowell 35:32

So I'm thinking of those type of things.

Dr. Cornelius 35:34

Now, I did miss one of Jameir's games. That's when my son played college ball, so I did miss one of his games. As a matter of fact, I brought up Tennessee game but someone had died and I had to do that through them. It was the key thing. I needed to do that through them.

Dr. Dowell 35:50

So, having that balance in there, knowing and I think because of that, that turmoil can cause people to lose their passion for ministry, because if you don't keep those areas straight, they bleed into other areas and you don't last.

Dr. Cornelius 36:04

Both of them ain't going to last. If you don't get it together, man, even the marriage is not going to last either. The ministry. So, that's where I got to have that balance.

Dr. Dowell 36:14

That's what that's so good. That's a mistake that we can, we can avoid, and sometimes so many only learning in retrospect after everything fall apart. I'm thankful that we can get ahead of the game. What are some critical errors that you observe maybe in ministers today that could be hending their ministry? You know younger ministers or just ministers in general that you see in this timeframe and this time this season that could hinder a mistake that they need to be mindful of Not making.

Dr. Cornelius 36:44

Try to move too fast, not being patient, not understanding the value of having to wait, and won't instant success. Won't instant success Comparing yourself by yourself, meaning comparing yourself to others and not knowing everybody's story so immediately. And I think one of the biggest problems problems is going to sound kind of crazy, because this is what me and you doing Social media man get so caught up into that and watch when everybody else is doing, because he everything on display. Right now you could have a pastor that ain't got the two memos, four memos, but all he got a phone and he can record. So he up and you look at that and he's telling you everything that you see in that boy. You get caught up in that man. Look how they doing it, look how they doing that.

Dr. Cornelius 37:37

Everybody's almost on display now. Everybody can do that and they like it used to be where it took a whole lot of money to be on TV to be seen, so now it's like equal playing level and so people see it and sometimes people become in this I jealous of that and won't that when they don't know the whole story, they don't know all of the numbers, they don't know everything behind it. So moving too quick Is the first problem, because I feel like we serve it. We run a generation now that want everything quick, fast and a hurry and they want it like Burger King. They want it their way.

Dr. Dowell 38:12

Let's unpack this. That's when you say Not knowing the story, you gave some gems. That's a mistake that we're seeing. I'm going to massage that. That meaning don't know the full story. What does that look like? You know and what? How does that walk out? What does that play out when a person don't know the whole story? What does it call them to do or whatever when they don't know the whole story? Kind of unpack that.

Dr. Cornelius 38:36

What I mean by that is that you can look at with somebody at now and not know where they came from, and that the unpack, that is that you always in the now, you always in the now. You announced, you called out. I've been in minutes for 38 years, you know has to see, you know been passing for 28 years, see. So you gave the background and you gave the numbers. See, you gave the numbers. But somebody can just be watching and just tune in and see and hearing some of the things I'm sharing and say, see, that's good. Now I like how he doing Alex, but you don't understand.

Dr. Cornelius 39:17

This come from 38 years. This come from 38 years of like what you said earlier, or mess ups on me, missing it and having to get back up and go out of the game. You know all of these kinds of things happen because, but if you don't know my story down you'll get, you'll get caught up in just what you're hearing about my now and, matter of fact, if you ain't careful, you'll judge my now, because you'll judge my now. And see, we teach this same principle to my kids. I tell my kids that my, my children, my children, you know that when what you all see what y'all live, then most of your life is when me and mama had something, we got there. So you can't thank you for getting married and have what mom and dad had got already.

Dr. Cornelius 40:08

See. No, because y'all don't know the whole story, cause what we did, we oftentimes she look that from you, so you didn't really see it and so I always say that no the story. But you know me, cause of me, your relationship. I'm a bite stage guy. I don't want to see what you're doing up front. I want to know how you made that work by stage. I you know and I think in my life I've been called a lot to be a stage manager that I'm behind the scene doing some things, helping manage some things in that way.

Dr. Dowell 40:44

That's good stuff, man, that that that is good. Not knowing the full story, and when I'm hearing in that that people want to start where you are, cause they don't know where you came from, so they think it just started now. So you can, like you said, a couple, get married, they want to, they want to start off where you are now and they and they can devalue where they are. That ministers could be too hard on themselves now because they're looking where others are and they're feeling less than feeling unable, feeling subpar, because you're looking at where you are today and you're looking at where they are now, but they weren't always there and so they might not even start, they might even begin, they may quit too soon because they, they, they, uh, not knowing the whole story of what it took to get there and the fight to do. That's good stuff, dali the kitchen, me.

Dr. Cornelius 41:37

you don't talk about the kitchen, the kitchen ministry. They don't want to do the kitchen ministry. What they want is what they see brought to the table, that the chef brought, that put down at the table. What a minute. This oldest look good. So I want this, but no, let's go in the kitchen where they dropped plates. Wait, wait, wait. Things was going on where five guys fired up and yet learn how to put out this fire to create this meal. Let go to the kitchen ministry before you judge what's just in front of you. I just designed that that you see where prepare. That's when it come out. This side presented to you. You see my best side, you see in my best side, but no, what happened in the kitchen that got me here, and then you can appreciate when you eat that meal, when you understand everything it took to prepare it down the kitchen man.

Dr. Dowell 42:33

That's good, see, let's, let's, let's continue to stay on this theme of lessons, because I believe it's the life lessons, the thing that we've learned. That's the stuff that I think is part of the foundation. If I really, if we really talk about it, that's part of that foundation and I often, like I said, say it that we don't celebrate foundations, correct, we stand on them. We talk about everything else. If it's in a new house or the new building, nobody talk about men. They don't jump up and down like man whoo, they did a good job on this foundation. Nobody don't do that, but that's what they're standing on. So every successful person is standing on a foundation that you need to know about. That's why I'm thankful this series of interviews.

Dr. Dowell 43:19

So let's talk about uh, uh, foundation of lessons. Is there? If it is, is there an area? If it's not, we'll move on. But is there an area of your ministry that uh, uh, our aspect of ministry in general that initially you undervalued but you later found it critical and important? You know, early days of ministry. Yeah, you really didn't think this aspect of your ministry or this aspect of ministry in general was important, but you found out it was kind of help us learn, get into your life backstage as you would and learn some of your lessons so we can benefit from them.

Dr. Cornelius 43:57

Friendship, mm, other people, because you didn't value that at first.

Dr. Cornelius 44:02

I did not value that at first Not, not the very first part of my ministry. In the very first part of my ministry I didn't value that because because we was probably the most talked about church in our city and so I didn't have many friends. So you know what I was getting to tell myself I can, I can roll without that. I don't, I don't, I don't need, I don't need friends. I, you know, because I had sell it that I just couldn't seem to find the one. So so you know this, you know this being peaceful, this us, we, we, we, we work in this. You know.

Dr. Cornelius 44:39

So, I think, one of the lessons that come to my mind I think I kind of devalue that and then later I learned the importance of that and the impact they have made, that I have others of light faith not just light faith but light calling as mine that I can share with cause. They can feel me. So I, I, I, I that. That that really helped cause. We have light calling I. I started surrounding myself, but that's a very small. To be honest with you, that's a very small circle, but I became okay with the size of the circle because of the quality of it. I want to look at the quantity.

Dr. Cornelius 45:21

I was looking for quality and because of the quality of that, of the quality of that of that circle, it have helped me and and that something I felt like I devalued, that now I really, I really do appreciate a lot.

Dr. Dowell 45:38

Well, that kind of that's kind of perplexing kind of that. Maybe you can help me with this thing. I would think, from from the outward, like from one, unless maybe you had already went through this, but when I met you you seem to always be were you on the other side of it. I was on the other side of that, you used the other side of what.

Dr. Cornelius 46:00

I was on the other side of that. See, when, when, when, when you met me it that's why I mean you're connected If you would have seen me proud to that, I wouldn't have never responded to when somebody shared about you. I, I would have, I, okay, and it would have been kind of that type. That would have been that kind of thing. I was on the other side of that with that because I honestly felt like I wouldn't appreciate it by others. So I had become norm to other people because it was like, hey, people don't seem to appreciate that I maybe I make them feel uncomfortable in who I am or what I do. And, like I said, we was talked about so so I was like, okay, all right, I ain't, I ain't, I ain't gonna worry about it.

Dr. Cornelius 46:50

But then I began to realize that ain't no way to do this thing, and so, from that to grow. I started then, like I say, forming that circle and but and I wasn't looking for necessarily a large circle, but I wanted quality. That's good. I wanted quality, somebody that I can, you know, hang out with, have fun with, do other things, you know, once again, to bring that balance in my life because all I knew was Frenchie. You know me and Frenchie did everything together.

Dr. Dowell 47:26

And that's stuff, man.

Dr. Cornelius 47:26

That that helped.

Dr. Dowell 47:29

I think that's. I think that's good because it speaks to how many ministers could realize who undervalued relationships, what you could be missing out on because you don't value a hand that's extending across the aisle. You, you say I'm good, hey, you kind of like well, you, you what up, I'm good, but they'll give you the hand. You don't stand here. You, you acknowledge what up, I'm good, but I'm going to keep my distance. One how many blessings God wanted to give to us? He had men give under your bosom that we missed it because we undervalued that area.

Dr. Cornelius 48:08

So good and another one that I just said to be earnest with your man, I, I, I, just I, I, I, just I, just I don't think I valued my value to what I was called to. I didn't value that. I think deep down inside me I had low self esteem and now I'm not confident in who I was and what I do, cause, maybe, cause I felt like it didn't fit what other people was doing around me. So I think I devalued that until later. I recognize, you know I've because you devalued that it cost you, you, you, you did not allow God to use you like you should.

Dr. Cornelius 48:52

Cause you devalued that you didn't realize that you were of a value, that the Lord, the Lord, had put some on you. So what, it didn't fit Johnny down the street, but what he put on you was for you. And the moment I grabbed hold to that man and really put on the armor that I fit in, all of a sudden, then it began to launch up for me and now, once again, they go that longevity. So now, like I said in the introduction of this here, I can move on, cause I knew my lane, I feel comfortable in it, you know.

Dr. Dowell 49:24

So I can work in it, and I'm here from the long haul Let me ask you this, in that same thought, then, reflecting on your journey Like you said, what advice, baby, what you have, you know, told your younger self at the beginning of ministry. You know, like you know, you're not going to be able to like if you had, if you could go back in time, knowing what you know now, what's something you would have told you then?

Advice for Young Ministers

Dr. Cornelius 49:46

One of the things I would have told, I would have told Pernel, was that, pernel, you okay being you, be okay with being you and doing it your way. It might not fit like everybody else. I would have told me that and I think that would have eliminated a lot of the headaches that I had, because I kept wondering whether or not I was good enough what I was doing, whether or not I was really good enough. So I to tell my I already told Pernel you're good because you're good in the eyes of the Lord, even with the mistakes I made. It's it's like with the Lord. I would just read just this morning my devotion.

Dr. Cornelius 50:26

I was reading about this, the condition that people have where they cannot I mean it's actually caused something where they can remember different events in their lives. So when I first read it I was saying, man, that's unique that you can do that. And I thought about myself I say I kind of got a good memory so. But then as I read for them, this is the thing, though not just a good event, even a bad event that they always remember. So they have a hard time for the things that they need to be forgotten.

Dr. Cornelius 51:00

But in Isaiah it says that the word of God says when it says, with an idea, I am that, I am that I have blotted out Now who he. He's all knowing, god is all knowing. But God say you know what I have blotted out your transition. I have blotted them out, your sins, I blotted them out to remember them no more. He's, I don't remember him no more.

Dr. Cornelius 51:25

And my whole point is, with using that is, I have a struggle and what I would have told Pranell is that, just like the Lord have forgiven you for your mistakes, you need to forget it. It's just like I was a profession is everything I tried to do, but yet I feel like I wasn't good enough and so anytime I messed up, I wouldn't let that go. I bothered me because I feel like now I'm a less value people want except me. So all of that man is where I had my battle. So if I was talking to Pranell, I would tell Pranell you got to be comfortable who you is. That's what I would have told Pranell in. And man, when I got hold of that concept, it really changed my life.

Dr. Dowell 52:09

Hmm, wow, wonderful. So what, if any vice you would offer those that are young in ministry? Now, maybe not just chronological age, but they're just starting in this Men, you know, starting new to ministry. You know, regardless of that chronological age, but they're new to ministry. What advice would you give to them? I, oh, they might be new to a new area of ministry, they've been in ministry but now God has shifted them and they are the new day and the genesis in their life, because we all would find ourselves in Genesis. What would you speak?

Dr. Cornelius 52:40

to them. One of the things I would say, one of the first things I would recommend to them, is to find someone of light giftings I like area that they're in that that you could talk to. I think that's one of the things you know. You don't, you don't go, you don't go to your mechanic. Your karma can you don't go to your karma, can it? Essing your mechanic to try and fix your TV Are other areas. You know, here car guy, here car guy, you know so he does the car. So my point is you, you, you know he don't know much about plants. You know my yard, my man, my yard, no, he's a mechanic. He's a mechanic, say, but he fixed up. So what? But he came, he came fish. What's going on with that TV? Maybe he came fix what's going on with with that.

Dr. Cornelius 53:33

So get people of your life faith, I think, I'm say of your, of your light callings, you know you're like Giftings is one of the things I would buy for you. Just find out and then I put goals in place, put gold, I mean literally write down goals and work on if you, if they haven't already done this, I would say, work on you. What make you good at ministry is you got that? You work on you. What you mean by work on me. You do the things that make you the better you, whatever land you in, I want to get better at knowing this. I'm gonna get better at it for me, for preaching. So what I work on for me I just mentioned I have. I have daily devotion, I have prayer time. I stay in the word. I try to stay. I got certain time where I spent in the word. All of these things, but none of this have to do with me pass or imprecise. It's me working on me because I need to be a better me.

Dr. Cornelius 54:28

If I'm gonna shop at people, see, if I'm gonna deal with people, I need to be a better me because people can offend you. People would not read, not Appreciate you, but you know what. I'm cool with all that cuz. You know what I don't learn. I'm a better me, I'm a better, I'm a better me. So, whatever area, whenever lane, I just use my exam as pass rate. But whatever lane you in, if you, that advantage is work on you and learn how. If the more you work on you no, don't beat you up. Bad, no, you know. No, I don't accept Jesus, no, no, it don't beat you up. As bad as an advantage is because you don't work on you and you understand. Sometime you take a hundred no before you get your first. Yes, so these type of things is wet, wet. You know what I would advise, and definitely getting around people that can speak in your life, be open and learn as much as you can work on you. Work on you is the other thing that I you know that I was saying what I'm hearing.

Dr. Dowell 55:29

That theme is like you say, you undervalue relationships at the beginning and you switch you encouraging ministers to find there there are people, groups I always call the tribes, and I think that's reoccurring theme. I think God wants to hear something. What would you say then? Give, give some advice. And how do you go about Navigate relationships with other church leaders, whether you know ministers and pastors? That's just in that vein give some ministers some advice. How do you go about Doing that so it might help other pastors or other ministers in general, it building with other leaders in other places outside of their assembly outside of their.

Dr. Cornelius 56:13

Okay, I'm, I'm a supportive of others or what other church leaders in general, other church leaders are my supporters and other words. Sometimes people got other stuff going on that I'm not involved with, but I show up just to support them. I I'm big and happy to support other people what they doing. So one of the one of the going things here peace fears that we Will dream. Help us with dream help us. God is our dream maker. He made he the drink. He promised keeper, he helped us to get to our dream. But what we do is we help people, we help people. So I do that. I'm a dream helper.

Dr. Cornelius 56:53

So one of the things how I support other ministries I try to make sure I'm there to help support you. You know somebody else that ain't got nothing to do with peaceful and that's not even, I would say, connected to my covering. I connected to my fellowship. I just I always believe in that and Omni Omar, I sit by. I try to stay very on that because I just believe in that and I honor other people.

Dr. Cornelius 57:20

So hot, that's how I work with other ministries. I try to all honor other people. I recognize them, without even agreeing with some of the things we made right up and steal. Because one of the things that pass the parlor always taught me is that God is not going to get me for how people treat me. God is gonna get me for how I treat people. So that's one of the things I've always established in my life. So I want to make sure I treat you right. So I think one of the biggest things for me how I Go and connect with other church leaders, other other ministries in the five-fold, I'm supportive and I will honor you to the fullest.

Dr. Dowell 58:01

I will honor you and say what I'm hearing in that the wisdom I think is good. Your approach with people is seeming though you seek to be a blessing. You mentioned nothing about Networking and trying to get them like it was nothing, like he was trying to pull something from them. It was more like he was trying to be a blessing, and I think that's that's effective to building good relationship.

Dr. Cornelius 58:25

I I got the gift of giving on me, man. I'm a giver, I've always been a giver, so I'm, I'm, I'm and I always want to try to live my life that way, where I'm not the one that's having to be the taker. So you know what is the trustee trying to get from me? Hey, man, I ain't trying to get them from you, I'm trying to get something to you. How can Patsy make you become better? It's what I want to do, man. So that's all I'm here for, man. Anywhere I can be of a blessing to you, they young lady come in hot. You know how can, how can we help you? How can I really help you and die Truly, man?

Preparing Effective Sermons

Dr. Dowell 58:58

that's my heart, that have always been my heart, man, always been my heart, and I think maybe me and you I think we might have talked about on a previous podcast. That's how people can fumble. If you're not careful. When you become a taker in relationships, then you can. You can fumble relationships because no one wants to be around takers and leeches, they want people. That's what that's called Mutualism. Yes, let's go back. Yet you give and you take when I'm on your taking, but do you give to? There has to be some type of mutualism. But if you become a taker speaking on that, when you're taking your ministry to other places, other churches, give us some advice. When, when you're traveling, speaking to help ministers, when you, when you go into different churches, can you give some advice from that? And I think that plays to longevity and and Wisdom, because you know how to handle these different situations so that it won't be short lived. Your a tenor ministry, your evangelistic ministry. I think you can be short lived if you don't do right. Give us some wisdom.

Dr. Cornelius 1:00:05

The first thing I'm gonna say die is seem like this is a given. I used to think this was a given, but now I'm not not so much. My first thing is, man, is I pray for a house before I go to a house? I always pray for a house. Another thing I do if it's available, if it's available and I get to the meter, what you're asking me, just kind of setting the if it's available. I never go to a house without listening to what that past is preaching and teaching so me, when I say it's available now with YouTube, all of that, I'll put it up. Back in the day I was asked by the cassette, I was asked by the CD and my purpose is I wanna hear what's in this house before I go there. And my purpose of that? So I can know how to pray, and I also wanna learn what's acceptable in the house. Once again, I'm back to that.

Dr. Cornelius 1:01:04

I don't wanna overrule, and when I say overrule, if the rule in your house, when I come in, I take off my shoes. So when I come in, I take off my shoes. I don't come in there on your carpet, I'm on your floor with my shoes on because I'm past the seat. But I'm past the seat, no, no, no, no, that mean I'm overruling your rule. So I wanna know what's the order of your house so I can stay within the house, say, well, what is that got stuff you don't really like. I see, you know what? I don't take the engagement because if they require me to take my gold off to come in the house and if that's offensive to me don't go to the house. But I have no problem with that. I take the gold off because I just wanna make an impact in the house. But if that's offensive to somebody, certain things I wear might be offensive to them. I don't wanna be offensive because I never win them over and my purpose in going in there is to make an impact. I won't make an impact because people are so caught up. I can't believe you, woda. I can't believe you did this here. So I wanna do that. And then I'm appreciative for what you do for me.

Dr. Cornelius 1:02:13

When I come, I'm not coming there. I know everybody can't say this, but I'm just being honest, how I am. I cannot come there expecting just to receive from you. I'm coming there to make a deposit in you and in that ministry and in making that deposit. You gonna show me how much you value that deposit by what you put back in me, and so maybe you might not value it that much and might not give me that much, but I'm cool with that. But I learned that what I'm carrying maybe you don't value it enough, so maybe I won't come back. But when I'm going up in there I got one thing in mind I wanna make a deposit and I wanna make an impact there. So I come as armor.

Dr. Cornelius 1:02:58

Now I can't emphasize enough because I do think when we talk about early some of the problems with ministers young ministers another problem is, I think, that we're caught up in pride. We don't know how to armor ourselves. You got to really arm yourself. So I submit to whatever you submit to. I only speak to what I supposed to be speaking to. I'm not there to correct the house. I'm not there to say this. I don't look like this. What this? No, no, no, no, no, no. I'm there to speak to what you call me here to do and I believe cause I don't pray it over God to give me a word for that house as I come in to speak. So I respect everything in the house and how you got it in the house, so I don't know whether that helped.

Dr. Dowell 1:03:41

I don't know what you was asking me. Yeah, you gave a framework. You want to.

Dr. Dowell 1:03:47

I see practicalities, how they're doing things, so you won't go in and offend and they can receive you, and then there's some prayer too. So sometimes we can miss it in both. Sometimes we can do the practical but we really didn't pray about the house. Or we can pray but we didn't go in and we offended the house before we got in the house because how we did things, you was a woman preacher there and they don't do. They allow women preachers but they don't want women preachers in pants. You went in there with some pants and you didn't know that Cause you went in some pants, some sneakers as a female and so you doubled One. They don't do the casual thing as much, but maybe they could have maybe put it up for you as a guy, but then you were female and you told it lost everybody.

Developing a Preaching Framework's Importance

Dr. Dowell 1:04:41

So I think there's some wisdom in that, pastor. See, in that Just we're talking about speaking and preaching before we close. I think this helps to longevity and wisdom go together in ministry. I think many times people if they don't have effectiveness, they don't have the longevity, whether we're out or whatever. Can you speak to just some keys that you can get to? You know what you do in sermon prayer and which I think would be some keys to be effective, cause I think you wouldn't do it if you didn't think it was effective, at least for you. So maybe you give some some talk, talk us through, and we'll have to go in detail in another podcast where we really can really break down the whole process, but kind of give us in a nutshell your process of preparing a sermon, cause I think many don't have a process and I like preachers to hear different people the way they go about it so they can kind of begin to form their own framework for it.

Dr. Cornelius 1:05:38

First of all, I want to preference that that question with this here is what I do now. It's not necessarily what I did then. I do want to say that because when you you're talking about longevity and now you have to understand that the way I started is not where I'm at now, because I've been in it as long as I've been in it, so some of the things come a little different and it don't require as much for me as it did then in the beginning.

Dr. Cornelius 1:06:09

So I'm going to speak on both ends and that's okay with you.

Dr. Dowell 1:06:12

I'm gonna take over? Oh yeah, cause I'm seeing that's wisdom already. Yeah, I'm gonna be coming. That's a journey. Yeah, I'm gonna speak for that.

Dr. Cornelius 1:06:19

When I first started out, I was a manuscript writer. I wrote out everything, so therefore I speak.

Dr. Dowell 1:06:29

Let me set it fast and see cause I think it's so good. Just interject, please don't lose your thoughts. Thank, you sir.

Dr. Dowell 1:06:34

Thank you, sir. One thing we need to know that should be a journey, that you're on a continuous journey, and if you're not on a journey, if you got stale, stagnant and stuck in your process, that's an indicator that you're not progressing. Yes, if you're stale because you, so thank you for that. That's good, though, that there should be an ongoing journey, that it should be progressing, it should be changing over time. Yes, you shouldn't remain the same. No, that's real good. So I never even thought about that.

Dr. Dowell 1:07:04

It's not static that you've been doing the same thing, and if it's static, come wrong.

Dr. Cornelius 1:07:09

Yeah, I started out a manuscript preacher and with that way, what I mean by that is I wrote out everything. So my preparation was at one point I had books laid out at a certain framework. Now I'm speaking at 38 years, not 28. And the reason why that's important is at my first 10 years I wasn't passering, so my message was different. So even my structure of it was different. I was doing more of the evangelistic type. I wasn't passering the people, so they would send me every nine in when I was going out. I wasn't passing these people, I was just there. So it was different that. So I had the manuscript. My timeframe wasn't a big deal of me. Then I was young and, like I said, I was more of the evangelistic. So I never. My study in preparation was never geared around. You only got this amount of time, see. So are they gonna hear you again next week? So I think all that need to be understood, because that's how I end up changing. So one of the things I can say with manuscripts. So I was starting out when I got an engagement I would have a total out to go somewhere. I do this style like two or three weeks proud working through some things. I had what I always been taught the pyramid there. What's your point that you're trying to make? What is it? What's the point you're trying to make in that message? So I was going through and pulling out, pulling out, and I have always been a storyteller, so my style on my form was storytelling. So I do a lot of Bible reading of different texts that deals with more of the story, and I look at that text to put out a story. How do this fit in with the story? And from that I will write out manuscripts. Now, so that will require, like I say, looking up. I did a lot of work, study, looking up particular words, doing that, remind you, two or three weeks prior to my engagement. That was at one point. Then, as it went on, that change and when I said change will end up taking place, then for me is I ended up because I became pastor and now I was up every week, I started giving more towards series or dealing with a particular theme that we was covering for the year, and so everything I prepare is usually that way. Now, how my preparation go now I don't left the three weeks. I don't left the three weeks. Now it's usually a week. So when I walk out of my pulpit using on Sunday, I'm already thinking about what's my next move for next Sunday. So now, what I do from that point. Now I have in my head where I'm going with it, what I'm gonna do. But now I gotta find out how I'm gonna try it, how you gonna do this, how you gonna make this pie, how you gonna make this cake. So I start them gather up the difference ingredients for the cake, what you mean gather up. I listen to others, I listen to others, I read. So now, from that I'm normally gaining thoughts about how I'm gonna do it. Now that starts on Sunday for me. Okay, on Monday.

Dr. Cornelius 1:10:41

Now I usually form a subject, at least a text, and all I do is read that. If this the text you gonna go from, I read that. That's all my reading. Be, that's it for that time. Everything I'm doing sitting around that. If I'm listening to other people, minister, guess what I'm listening to Somebody listening to that text. On that text, I'm looking up different other scriptures from it. All of that.

Dr. Cornelius 1:11:08

This happened to lead up to that week, so that's usually what I call my money time, where I'm carefully listening to the word, that text over and over with it, plugs usually in my ear. All I'm hearing the reading of it, somebody that reading it, and I'm reading it and I'm letting somebody speak it in my ear. And now I'm asking God for kind of some guidance what I'm gonna do with it by mid week, by Wednesday. Now I don't put out I don't got some other ingredients and I don't start mixing some of it. I don't start mixing it Now. This might not be good advice for everyone, but you just saying how I work and it might throw some people off.

Dr. Cornelius 1:11:43

Now, by Saturday, I know me and you a little different. By Saturday now I got in my head everything I want, but I ain't got it on paper yet. I don't have it on paper. I'm a Saturday guy. I'm a Saturday night guy. So Saturday night, now what I'm doing. Saturday night I got everything. Now I don't do manuscripts. Now I got everything outlined. I don't do all my memory work. I don't memorize everything that I'm gonna do. I don't write it out. Now I memorized it and now I don't preach that thing. At least 50 times to a hundred to myself during the week I don't preach that same thing. So I usually spell out something. I'm one that spells out what I'm doing. If I'm spelling out, I just did miss in my SS each one of them. So I memorized that and got scriptures on them, memorized those scriptures. Now I'm ready Sunday. I'm ready to put the masterpiece together, man that's a powerful framework.

Dr. Dowell 1:12:40

We're gonna have to unpack that more because I love all that. I, like you, have what I'm hearing in this Many preachers and ministers. We wanted you to hear this so you can understand that you need a framework, you need a process. You should have your own pattern and I think that's part of our development past the seed, of have the longevity that we develop a pattern, because if not, you're held to scale, you're hitting and missing. There's no consistency in your delivery. In your message you mentioned that, peer, you gave us the P. Can you give us the I, the E and the R to those that are no, because they'll email us and say he gave us the B. Can you give us the I, the R?

Dr. Cornelius 1:13:27

for peer. The P is what's your point? Then I wanna come up with some illustrations. That's your. I.

Dr. Cornelius 1:13:32

Illustrations for that. Then I like to have examples. And then I come back and I give the resources where it comes from. That's my scripture learning. Okay, this is the resource. This way I base this from. You know, this is so, that's the peer that's in me, so it's in my brain, president Donald. So when I'm looking at a text, that's what I'm, that's what I see in a text, that's what I'm trying to pull out. I'm always trying to pull out peer. Every time there's nothing that come out of my oven that I feel like Lord give me. If I can't do the peer with it, I can't put it out there, cause I always ask myself let's see what's your point, what's the point you're trying to make. And when I'm done, that's what I examine my message by. Did you make your point? What's the illustration, what illustration you use, what example you use to help and what resources.

Dr. Cornelius 1:14:28

That's how I grade every message I put out.

Dr. Dowell 1:14:31

That's good. You got a standard, a system, a rubric For.

Dr. Cornelius 1:14:36

I think, this.

Dr. Dowell 1:14:37

I think this episode to be successful. I mean have longevity, because now I said it in one of the other podcasts that even though we try to conquer the mountains, government and we do things outside the church, that when you are five fold minister there's still always a preach or teach on you, but we should be holding it, handling the microphone and speaking the word. And what keep us there? Cause is hit me.

Dr. Dowell 1:15:02

Now I see what causes us to have the passion, the fire after 20 years, 10 years about preaching is because we develop frameworks, we develop systems, we modify the systems, we look at other people that become part of the journey where we get excited, where we get into not just preaching and teaching but the art and the science of it. And that's what we wanna do with the other ones. Because now you begin to look at your peer, how you're going about doing it in your processes, and now you get excited about adding pieces. I know that's what that keeps the fire within me, because I have a thing about if I see stuff and I'm watching somebody else cook, it's like that's a piece that I can add. I don't try to be like them, but that's like I can add that to my arsenal I can add, and that keeps the longevity because it's not stale, my preaching and my teaching not stale, static, and I don't get stuck because I'm on a continuous journey of changing and growing.

Dr. Cornelius 1:16:07

See, I was just finna say that man. You pulled it off. Man, you said it is that I enjoy a good meal. I enjoy different styles of preaching. When I say a good meal, I'm talking about preaching, teaching. I enjoy it all. I enjoy it. So it's something that captivate me. Now, I didn't insert that because you was asking about my preparation, but part of my preparation is I shared earlier. If you remember. I said listen to others. I also have that where I go bike and I listen to other people's Sunday messages all the time for my feeding and also what I do in there. Oftentimes, like you just said, I'm gonna be like them, but maybe they hear a nugget there that I liked it. That get me excited and I watch how they use different methods are ways that got me excited. So if that excites me, I can just keep other folks excited. That listening to me Wow.

Dr. Dowell 1:17:05

Man, pass the C. As you know, this time goes too fast, man. I've enjoyed it. I pray that our ministers and all those are watching and listening to have joined it as well. Be sure, if you wanna reach out to Pastor Kaniyans personally, you can reach them at pbcwordgmailcom. You can find them on social media Prattform. Peaceful Believers Church. Pastor C is always great having you here. Any final comment you wanna have until the next time we do this?

Dr. Cornelius 1:17:33

together, man. I appreciate the invite, man. I always enjoy this time, man. I look forward to it. I also pray that it was good and folks was blessed by, and I just encourage them all to keep eating well so they can exhale. That's my thing, man Keep eating well so that they can exhale.

Dr. Dowell 1:17:52

Man, you said it. That's our endeavor on the Five-Four Food Podcast. We look forward to you being with us our next time together. Be sure you like this, share it out, give us a review. I want you not to forget. Never forget, no matter where you are, what you're going through. God is testing you for greatness and I believe in you. I believe you're gonna live better, you're gonna do better, you're gonna experience all the brilliance that God has for you. Until next time together, we'll see you. Thank you, psc.