Longevity in Ministry with Bishop Charles Johnson

Discover the spiritual sustenance that feeds the heart of every Five-Fold Minister. I'm Dr. Robert F. Dowell, and alongside my covenant brother, Bishop Charles Johnson, we delve into the depths of ministry, sharing the wisdom gleaned from our own journeys and the profound influence of mentorship. Embark with us on a quest to understand the nuanced distinction between work and labor as love, the grounding force of grace, and the candid realities that new ministers face, all while maintaining authenticity and endurance in your divine calling.

Our episode is a treasure trove of heartfelt insights as we unravel the true essence of ministry and the significant impact of authenticity in shaping one's journey regarding their calling from God. With reflections on the lessons learned from past mentors, we convey the importance of a strong, grounded presence beyond the pulpit and how it shapes the emotional connection to those we lead.

Wrapping up with a look at the silent sacrifices and the substance born from suffering in ministry, we aim to guide and fortify the resolve of current and future ministers. We discuss the reality of personal sacrifices and the growth that emerges from life's trials. Closing with a note on the essential role of mentorship, we leave you with a message of hope, encouraging you to recognize the divine brilliance within and inspire personal and communal growth. Join us on this enriching journey that promises to arm you with the knowledge and tools for a fulfilling ministry.

Transcript

Speaker 1 0:07

Welcome to the Five Fold Food Podcast hosted by Dr Robert F Dial, where ministers receive the spiritual nourishment they need to succeed. The Word of God declares and he gave some apostles and some prophets and some evangelists and some pastors and teachers for the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ. Prepare to receive revelation, wisdom and insight to empower your ministry for victory. Now let's eat.

Dr. Robert F. Dowell 0:39

Praise the Lord. God bless each and every one of you. Welcome to the Five Fold Food Podcast. I'm your host, dr Robert F Dowel. I'm so delighted that you've chosen to be with us for another podcast where our endeavor is to help the Five Fold Ministers eat well so that they can excel. I want to encourage you, wherever you may be viewing this or listening to this, that you do subscribe so that you can get each podcast every time that it comes out, whether you're on Apple, spotify, wherever you may be listening to it, be sure you're not only subscribed but leave us a review. You'll see on the platform a place where you can leave us a five star review. Let us know how the podcast is blessing you. That will help us in the algorithm as well. If you're watching on Facebook, be sure you subscribe. On YouTube, subscribe as well. You give us some comments and let us know how the podcast is blessing you. Also, for those that are listening on Spotify, itunes, if you look in the show notes, you'll see there are some great resources and materials that I have that will help you in your Five Fold Ministry. Some of those are free. I believe it will bless you those that we have. It will help you in your Five Fold Ministry Also. We do appreciate your support. You can support on any level that you can. You'll see that again in the show notes You'll see a place for that. We're glad that you're here again.

Dr. Robert F. Dowell 2:05

I am super excited about today's broadcast. I got one of my covenant brothers that's going to be on with us today. I want to bring him on with me Today. I'm excited to have my covenant brother with me, bishop Charles Johnson. He's with us. I'm excited, bishop Johnson.

Dr. Robert F. Dowell 2:27

Dr Johnson as well. He's the senior pastor of Virtue Church in Phoenix, arizona. As the senior pastor of TVC, his visionary leadership, coupled with two decades of ministry experience, gives him insightful awareness of what people need to be delivered, developed and destined for life In practical yet dynamic ways. His teaching and preaching style graces him with the kingdom of equipping ability for development in the areas of spiritual, physical as well as emotional prosperity. He is a proven leader of leaders.

Dr. Robert F. Dowell 3:05

As the overseer of VCI, that is, vanguard Covenant International, he oversees ministries throughout Germany, africa, england and the United States. Dr Johnson also assists and mentors pastors to lead the congregation to achieve their maximum potential in Christ. He retired from the US Army in 2002 with 20 years of military service, serving in various leadership capacities and leading troops on several deployments, he completed his military career as a highly decorated soldier. Dr Johnson is a graduate of the Minnesota Graduate School of Theology as well as the Sonship School of the First Born. He is an author, highly sought after conference speaker and leadership development consultant. Dr Johnson labors in the ministry with his beautiful wife, dr Renee Johnson. Together they walk in favor faith and the friendship of God. Welcome to Five-Fold Food, my Covenant brother.

Bishop Charles Johnson 4:07

Hey, man, I'm so glad to be here Not only be here, be here with you because I know it's going to be dynamic, man, and it's going to be a relaxing time for those that are here. You know that are going to be able to view and then live what they view, so it's going to be awesome.

Dr. Robert F. Dowell 4:24

Oh man, I know Pastor Dr Johnson. I always like to say that is revelation in the conversation, Hallelujah.

Bishop Charles Johnson 4:31

And you know, we're men, we're going to get together.

Dr. Robert F. Dowell 4:33

It's just not a conversation, man, but that's a revelation and I'm praying that you all pick up what God is going to put down in here. I'm so glad that we have this time. This is my covenant brother. We have the birth by the same spiritual father and we've known each other. You know, for a man I know over 20-some years that we've known each other, but we haven't had the opportunity just to have a lot of. You know just Konea and fellowship and just. You know it's always hitting miss here and there, but I'm thankful this season and I pray that this be kind of like a genesis moment that we'll be able to not just see each other and pass him but be able to. You know, we got the same spirit and we know each other and we've heard each other, minister, but just to have this time. So I'm excited about just being able to dialogue and chop it up with my brother and you know, everybody else can just kind of be able to get in on this conversation. Man of God.

Bishop Charles Johnson 5:29

Amen. You said something that was that's awesome here, people, a lot of people. You hear people in conversation. Rob Dr dowell.

Bishop Charles Johnson 5:40

They say, they say you know it's my brother, so they say you know how. They say you see what I'm saying. A lot of people like to you see what I'm saying, but when you see it, there's revelation in the conversation. Sometimes people say stuff that ain't worth seeing, and so when we so, when you, you know that's why a lot of times you just yeah, yeah, yeah, just to move on in the conversation. But truly, even the time we spent together talking and fellowshiping there is for those of you who haven't, who are first time viewers, that first time coming in this man of God gives you something to see by way of what he says, and so it's been a, it's a blessing to be here. It's been a while, but I'm glad I got a chance to finally get in in this new season.

Dr. Robert F. Dowell 6:28

Hey, man, I'm excited and I'm excited about our conversation and our thrust. We've been dealing with this in the podcast. For those that have been viewing with us, be sure you get the other podcasts if you've mentioned. We've been, if you would, dr Johnson, kind of been in a series, if you would.

Dr. Robert F. Dowell 6:44

But God put it on my heart on the onset of this year that we've been dealing with the topic of longevity and ministry. Longevity and ministry, because it's just not enough to start a thing but we want to be able to complete a thing. He that began the good working youth. It's faithful to bring it to completion. And what is what is kind of sad in my heart?

Dr. Robert F. Dowell 7:05

If I look over the body of Christ, that you will see many people, dr Johnson, who at one point started in ministry, and we're talking about five-fold ministry. They started in ministry but a decade later, 15 years later, sometimes five years later, they're no longer walking in in their ministry. Call they kind of like Peter just said, I went a fish it and they've left the ministry. But then other. On a sad note too, dr Johnson, and this is why I believe God started within my heart to make sure that we connect to get you in on this topic because I've seen others who may still be in the ministry, but they no longer have that fire, they no longer have that passion, they no longer have that desire. And I've looked at your ministry over 20-some years, pastoral ministry, 39 years, almost 40 of this ministry, and all and man to God, you're still moving strong. You do a daily devotional every day. You call it the cold right.

Dr. Robert F. Dowell 8:13

That's right, that's it, the cold yeah, and tell me what's the cold.

Bishop Charles Johnson 8:19

Cold is a cup of daily enlightenment. Daily enlightenment it gives us. Yeah, man. And it started with a member I had pastored years ago, found me on social media, hadn't seen this person in about 20 years. They found me on social media, reached out to me. I was in West Palm Beach getting ready to preach. When they reached out to me they were so excited which just made me feel like it was the fireworks. I was like wow. And then, after we did all of the familiarization and everything, she said sir, would you please go online and teach one time? There's so many people looking for you, et cetera. And when I went on, one of my members called me and she said sir, you were on this morning and why don't you call that a cup of? And she couldn't finish it. And then the Lord said cold, cup of daily encouragement. And it moved after the first six years to a cup of daily enlightenment. And it was birth, my friend. It was birth from this.

Bishop Charles Johnson 9:33

Many people say I had a bad day and it is impossible, impossible for you to be given a bad day. You choose how your day is going to go. There is no such thing as an outside force that determines your day, and then I began to teach that at the beginning because the lights went on. The Bible says God made the day for the man, not the man for the day. The day does not determine its outcome. We determine whether we're going to have a good day or a bad day. You have dominion over your day, but if you have not allowed God to make a deposit in you, then you have nothing to use to change the mind's gate and the landscape, and all you want is an escape from everything.

Dr. Robert F. Dowell 10:37

There, man, you're dropping balls already, man, did y'all pick up what that doc just put down? He said not only the landscape, but the man's gate, the mind's gate. Yeah, man.

Bishop Charles Johnson 10:50

It's crazy man. And then they want an escape. Yeah, they do Think about it. You're ready for the job, got the job, getting run up off the job because you don't like what's at the job, because what's at the job is controlling you. It controls you almost. We say I'm not taking the work home. Yeah, we do, because whoever we don't like and whatever we don't like we talk about at home.

Bishop Charles Johnson 11:15

Man, this is so your job has invaded your space or the place where you're supposed to have peace. You don't even have a garden, you don't have a garden to go to, you don't have a garden to eat and you live in a garden of Gethsemane.

Dr. Robert F. Dowell 11:28

Man listen to that guy?

Bishop Charles Johnson 11:31

Real talk, real talk. Now think about it. People praying for something Find everything that that something has, but despise going there, mess around and then have problems that you brought from outside in your house where you pay to be, pay to be there, man. Now you bring the funky attitude, you bring all that back to your house and mess up relationships with people there, and so the enemy has found a space in our understanding and that's why it's difficult. People are very, very tired, but it's tired in their mind. We're not digging ditches, man, and I'm not knocking people who do, but I'm saying and we now walk in, we ain't got a. You know, like people we're not many. Most of us are not manual labor laborers, so why are we so tired? We didn't war out and I'm not me.

Dr. Robert F. Dowell 12:35

Let me ask you this, dr Johnson, because you you said a mouthful already. What what I'm hearing is is this that many Fivefold ministers, because they don't have the proper Minds mindscape as you would say that they're looking for an in escape in the ministry Because they don't have the right mindset and then back to the cold because they hadn't had enlightenment. And I believe that's why God have had us to be in this series, so that we can bring some enlightenment For those five fold ministers that are losing the desire, that you're losing the drive, man, that the warfare is so strong that you don't know if you're calling anymore or if you're still in the call. You're not moving forward with an unction, with an excitement, because why you're looking for an escape.

Dr. Robert F. Dowell 13:20

I want to ask for you, but before we do this, for those that might want to know you mentioned the code Can you kind of tell us where can they go? Maybe get you on Facebook, or those that want to contact you, can you kind of share with us so they'll be able to do that? Yeah, we will show up also your website, but kind of give us an information so they can get some of that enlightenment.

Bishop Charles Johnson 13:41

Amen, just like, and I appreciate that. But doctor, doctor, now you can go to live dash f or w a rd Dot org and you can go to the website and you'll see a button that allows you to click on and Go directly to code and there's archived on that website Previous messages. You can also get apparel, different things and different resources that can help you. One all the apparel on the site is for evangelistic purposes. You know, if you see a code t-shirt, it has things.

Bishop Charles Johnson 14:17

I was standing in the airport with a member and the person, everybody walking by in a terminal kept looking at the t-shirt Till one lady came back and said what does that mean? And I stepped aside and watched the member that was with me just start to evangelize, wound up to the end of it, praying. It was not just for a person to look good, it was for a person to come take a look, and so with that, and then code is Every morning at Monday through Friday, 7 pm, mountain standard time, and the purpose of that is to have devotion that sets the direction for your day, so you can walk out after waking up and just walk. You start that walk in the right mindset.

Dr. Robert F. Dowell 15:05

Well, man it is go ahead and say that past it.

Bishop Charles Johnson 15:08

No, but. But your mind now has you're not, you're not concerned About work, you're now already Desiring to go to labor. Hmm, I can't do something you love, because you know, I'm saying because it's someone you love, and Now, because of the someone you love, it's labor.

Dr. Robert F. Dowell 15:31

It's not work. I can attest man it. I've been on the code and no false failure, man you. The revelation and the insight that you give it does bring enlightenment. So I want to encourage all of you, all that are listeners, that you check out the code, ministers. I'm telling you it, I mean revelation, man, it's not. If you go, don't, don't preach your stuff. Now You're gonna preach the stuff. Be sure you give me this credit, for you know, make your own stuff. But I'm telling you, man, it is some real good stuff. I said that about the code because you said the enlightenment with you doing this.

Dr. Robert F. Dowell 16:10

39 years of ministry Still have an excitement, do on a motion, pastoring apparel and all that. I want to know because I really my endeavor is to help others. Many times I see people when we go to a building. I like to use this illustration. We see a building. We may admire the chandeliers in the building, the height of the building, but normally nobody go in a building and talk about oh man, this is a good foundation If they just take it for granted. But those in architecture know that without this foundation this structure wouldn't stand, that'll be cracks in the wall, it'll be a leaning tower and so many times when we see people as such as yourself or, you know, many men of God, women of God that are successful, sustained ministry but I mean not just still doing ministry, but still doing ministry, still in the ministry I believe there's a foundation, there's some things beneath the surface that they don't see.

Dr. Robert F. Dowell 17:08

So I want to ask you, dr Johnson, what do you believe has been the sustaining force behind you know, you still having a long and passionate, because some people are still in it. But you know, the truth be told, they're just showing up, they're still going through the motion, they still wear the title of elder, they still wear the title of Avengers, even a pastor, but there's no more function, there's no more fresh oil, that that, that there's no more pushing. They haven't birthed anything in years and I feel that, by the function of the Holy Ghost, as you're listening to this and you listen to the man of God, that's that your baby gonna leap again. You know you're gonna begin the birth again, because many got discouraged, because maybe some things they didn't know. So help us understand what's been the the driving force for you to still have passions for so long.

Bishop Charles Johnson 17:56

I Got a revelation, pastor, years ago you were in the military, I was a military. I got saved when I was in the military, um, and the thing that that I can contribute to the fire I have, it's the process. You know people like to talk about process, but I need people to understand this without the process, you will never get the ingredients that are required for you to have longevity or to stick. Sustain your attitude. God doesn't just tell you to have joy. He gives you something to have joy for, and what many people have a tendency to do is start following what's going on around them instead of Filing following the one who found them. Hmm, because the founder is the one that will lay and secure the foundation. We have a lot of other things in our family. Our foundation should be formed by the person who found us, because it's founded on what other people keep. I just had a, had a.

Bishop Charles Johnson 19:19

One of my sons in the faith Just started a ministry. We were having a uh, uh, what we call a a r after action review or we were having we were talking about. He said he called me. He said, dad, what, what? You saw, you were there, what was going on, and we sat down and we got down to the nitty gritty as a father got down to the nitty gritty and and one of the things I say it was I just. I said, son, I just listened to you and all you talked about was how the sound was. You kept talking about all of this and you were frustrated. I said, brother, you just started and you already wearing out Because you were so busy worrying about if everything was going right that you stunted yourself from growing right and that that that I learned that early.

Bishop Charles Johnson 20:08

I learned that early because the key for every one of you listening is Anybody, anybody Can do the, do the pulpit. You're not there in the pulpit because you gift it. We think we're in the pulpit because we're gifted. We think that we're all that because we got gifts, that's it. No, god doesn't look at how you handle the gift, god looks at how you handle the grace.

Dr. Robert F. Dowell 20:42

Yes, sir, I want to miss this tell me some of the process that you went through or some of the processes to that ministers should go through, because you, you, you hit a key point that many don't get there because they don't go through that process. What's some of that process? Maybe you went through or for ministers to, like you said, I learned this early Kind of help us with that. You know that's part of your being sustained in that. What's some of that process that ministers, that they missed, or maybe that you went?

The Authenticity of Personal Beliefs

Bishop Charles Johnson 21:13

through. It all starts with your why, and many people like to tell people what their why should be. Okay, and, and and. You've seen me right, and and and and. I'm the same all the time. Now, how dare somebody come to me and tell me what my why should be? Man, you're on business. You can't, you can't, dictate my why. You can't, and I mean it from this point. People say you should love god because of this. You should shut your mouth Because he's drawing me. You don't know what he's using to draw me.

Bishop Charles Johnson 21:59

I got saved, not in a lot of people's. I didn't get saved because I love Jesus. I even know Jesus. How can you love who you don't know? Salvation doesn't begin with us loving him. It begins with him loving us. And it's not even a registration that we sign up for because we love him. We go accept the offer because he rescues us. That's why it calls his aid.

Bishop Charles Johnson 22:33

So how can I tell another young man or woman or anybody why they should be saved? That is, that's what makes the relationship with God tailor made, because not all of us are there for the same reason. We don't all love him for the same reason, but we love him and so, with that. The truth of the matter is I ain't know who Jesus was, but I knew what he did he saved. That's all I knew he saved. Now people can get as spiritual as you want, and I'll tell people this. That's why most of this stuff don't work. Most of the stuff we see, I don't care, you can't argue with results. A lot of stuff don't work and it's because we're getting dictated to on why I should do this. God don't even dictate, you just put it out there. You gotta feel it, do it. That's what he said. I know what's in your heart. Don't even play that.

Dr. Robert F. Dowell 23:30

So you said we gotta figure out. Why then Our personal?

Bishop Charles Johnson 23:34

unique, why Watch this? And I knew why. I just didn't buy what people started trying to sell me. So I wasn't confused, I got saved. I followed my wife. I was skirt chasing that girl, fine, and his fine nerve. I was playing basketball, community basketball, and I was on my way to a game. But I saw this is what I call pastor, and I don't want to be offensive but I tell this everywhere in the world I was on booty duty. I saw my wife Come on. Now, everybody want to be rich. I saw my wife. I was balling, I was going to the club. I saw her. I came and I said hey, girl, how you doing? She said Rob. She said to me. She said I know you ain't gonna holler at me from no window. Now watch the Lord.

Bishop Charles Johnson 24:27

I came up from them steps, you ain't chomping me. I came from them steps, came down, except the challenge. She's walking and I'm talking. I'm shooting game. I'm doing it. All of a sudden she stops dead in her tracks. I'm so caught up, man, and trying to talk to her, I'm standing in front of a door that I don't even know I walked to. I don't even know where I'm standing. I've been so ensconced in her. All of a sudden the door opens. There's a woman with a white top, a black skirt, white gloves and a little piece of paper in her hand. My wife looks at me. The lady says welcome. My wife now then looked at me and said are you coming?

Bishop Charles Johnson 25:16

It was a challenge that got me from downstairs to downstairs and it was a challenge that I had to accept of whether I was going in or not. I walked in, sat down, then things started coming out of me. The preacher said hey, here you go, doll, you know how we are. Preacher said turning your hymn on. I reached in the front of the thing. He didn't have to. I ain't asking why.

Bishop Charles Johnson 25:40

I opened up to him because my mama took me to church. I turned right there. I didn't know, but she watching everything I just was doing. Then he said turning your Bible. I opened up a Bible and went right there. She turned and leaned to me and she said so you're familiar with this. Huh, you ain't just a hundred percent heathen.

Bishop Charles Johnson 26:00

I was like, oh, we have never been apart since that day, wow. But guess what? I didn't get and I got saved because I was sitting, didn't know why. I was feeling messed up. Nobody had put me down or anything.

Bishop Charles Johnson 26:19

I was sitting in the last seat on the rope and I started in a community I was popular in. I started crying and didn't know why I was crying. I can't remember what the preacher said. I got up, walked down the last aisle on the wall where they got the Sunday school thing, taking just the tennis and the pennies and all that. I walked up there and next thing, you know, I'm standing at an altar call Getting saved and crying, don't know why, walked up here, don't know why.

Bishop Charles Johnson 26:58

I'm standing there and I feel something touch me and I look it's my wife. We just got married. She's standing next to me and the preacher said something to me. I say something. I don't even remember what he said, but evidently I was in line and when I got home, man, it was quiet all the way home. My wife didn't say anything. My wife has never asked me to go to church. In all the years we've been together, she's never asked, never argued, never, because she didn't have to. I only went to church, man, because I loved her. Now people can like to say what they want to say, but I think that's what makes things difficult for people, because they won't accept the truth of how they really felt, and so what I'm saying is that this thing was authentic for you.

Dr. Robert F. Dowell 27:54

You wouldn't play in a religious game, no, or doing anything. It really was something real. It was.

Bishop Charles Johnson 28:02

I am still the same way today as I was in the way I see things. As then I'm not a guy coming from Cleveland, coming from the front. I'm not with that. I'm gonna always be honest with the one person that I sleep and wake up with.

Authenticity and Longevity in Ministry

Dr. Robert F. Dowell 28:20

Me. Let me ask you this, pastor Johnson, before we move on. If you put a bow on that, what would you say? Ministers missing that? Because when I'm hearing from you and I'm picking up from you part of your longevity, is there's some real authenticity, that you're not a person who's just trying to go alone to get along. You're just not saying cliches, you're not just following a crowd that there's following a cloud.

Dr. Robert F. Dowell 28:45

What are you saying ministers miss in this piece? Because that's a part I would have never thought that would be a part of your passion, because it started. When I just see those words authenticity, that it was real and even in your saying of it it's not cliches, it's like I didn't know why Exactly. People say you can't tell me what. Why is what do you think, before we move on, ministers missing that? Because I want them to get that. If they missed that, so they can't have that longevity, how would you put that? They're missed? Is it authenticity? How would you have put it with you for ministers why they don't still have that passion? Well, you've seen them. They're shipwrecked in their fate and they once was called.

Bishop Charles Johnson 29:28

I would tell every aspiring and every young person younger than me that's endeavoring to minister, the first thing you have to learn is you have to be focused on becoming and we talked about becoming instead of just doing. See, most people you meet want to do what they see, but they don't want to be who God says is in that word. That's doing it. That's why it's hard. It creates an amplified warfare within you just serving God. In truth, there's a war going on. But what happens when your motives get in the way? Because you want to do something instead of be something? Because when God starts working on the inside out, I work in you both to will and to do. Of my good pleasure, he doesn't work in us to will and to do what we think we want to do or be. That's a conflict of interest. So friction is the wearing away of something from rubbing against something. There is more will against will going on in us than it is iron sharpening iron. There's a war of the will within a young person and they don't know it because sometimes they don't have an example or a person that can say, that can say hey, let me give you, can I give you a biblical example, gehazad the servant to Elisha the servant that was serving the double portion carrier. He was in the position of the greatest Old Testament servant because he was about to get, if he was right, a double portion, but his problem was his motor's got in the way. And Elisha says, after he denies and says I don't want to take nothing from you, naaman, because I don't want no confusion about who blessed me, remember, he turns it down. As soon as he turns it down and Naaman leaves, gehazad follows and takes what the man of God didn't want.

Bishop Charles Johnson 32:24

One of the most powerful things that helped me with Apostle Hulkem and understanding out throughout these years, it's what Elisha said to Gehazad when he asked him where you been, where you coming from, and Gehazad lied and Elisha said did not my heart go with you? My heart went with you. You can't stand here and tell me that you didn't do wrong, because the reason you was traveling with me was so you could be with me, that that wrong could be made right. He knew he was like 50 all along, but it didn't disqualify him from being there for his opportunity. Many of us, god called me. That's okay, but don't get so caught up that you don't realize whether you meant to answer. Oh yeah, just cause you called that's God desiring you, just cause you said, well, I might as well go. That doesn't mean it's gonna work out. Let's be truthful. God is looking for a willing participant. There's more people in ministry and five full ministry right now that are unwilling workers. How could you be tired if it's the family business?

Dr. Robert F. Dowell 33:59

Willing and obedient, not just obedient.

Bishop Charles Johnson 34:02

And that's what's wearing them out.

Dr. Robert F. Dowell 34:04

Let me say way to this. I think you're saying some very valuable thing that I'm seeing that in your genesis that people won't see today. They see all that you're doing, the ministries that you're overseeing throughout the world pastors and Africa and different people, the work that you're doing locally. They'll see that. But in your basement I see an authenticity that this thing started right, that you've always been. Now your motive is not just to follow, not just to do what you see, but to be an authentic person, to be real with oneself, to be real with who you are and where you are. And then I heard you mention Apostle Hockham, our spiritual father. I want you to hear that. But also in your basement, that's some influence, as you talked about your wife in that with your salvation. Talk to me about the role that Apostle Hockham or any other, if there's mentors that played a significant impact. Cause one common thing that I've seen is I talked to different men of God, like yourself, a bishop, and you just mentioned now that there is in the basement that caused this longevity in your genesis, man, and I'm loving that. I just can't keep away from that. To be authentic meaning that be real with yourself. Don't just say, and this I don't want to move on, I don't want to be the dead horse, but you really helping me, man of God, because that's how I've always been with men of God that surround me and the ones that I know, and they'll say hey, pastor Dow, hey, we're going to go here, let's do this, let's go there. I just always been true. It's like I'm not going to lie and just say, you know, oh, bishop, let me get back with you. You know, let me pray about it, let me, if I already know you saying like, hey, let's go to Canada, man, I want to go do submission work in Canada. Man, you know, we want to go and we need to go to Canada. Man, you know, we did in you saying, and all the reasons, and God, I'm not the one that will say, bishop, like man, man, that sounds good, dr Johnson, man, let me check my calendar. I'm just gonna tell you, like man, you want truth, I'm probably not going to Canada. Man, you know and I don't really care how you view me that you said man, you ain't going to cause.

Dr. Robert F. Dowell 36:22

That's an authenticity that I'm not trying to go alone, to get alone just because of everybody to do it, and I don't mind you marching to the beat of your drum, and I don't just do it, but see, you're helping me. I think that plays a part, because I never thought about it in my genesis. But that's how I am, that's how a lot of people get in trouble, cause you do things, you get involved with things, you go places and you do things, and it's not out of place of true authenticity and don't mean they wrong or you wrong, but you want to be true, and so thank you for saying that, cause I see that now, and so now I want to go to the influence, cause that helped me. No one, I never heard anybody say that. I never picked that up, that that's in their basement and it hit me. That's part of my basement too.

Dr. Robert F. Dowell 37:15

I never framed it that way, cause if you saying you're going somewhere, I don't care, I don't feel that pressure, man, everybody else doing it. I ain't doing stuff, doc, just because everybody else doing it. I just can't. And I'm not going to lie either. I'm not going to tell you let me check my calendar. Man, more like a, probably not.

Bishop Charles Johnson 37:32

I'm not going to lie to you.

Dr. Robert F. Dowell 37:33

I'm not going to lie to you in my wife.

Bishop Charles Johnson 37:36

Yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm not doing it.

Dr. Robert F. Dowell 37:38

I don't want to go. Yeah, I just ain't going to count it.

Bishop Charles Johnson 37:42

But I got dressed. It was in you. You know one thing about leadership I've learned leaders have the strongest, and not only the strongest, but also the most unawareness. As it relates to then no, there's a lot of no's we give people that we don't necessarily know why we're telling you no. We just know the answer's no.

Dr. Robert F. Dowell 38:19

You're not afraid to say no either.

Bishop Charles Johnson 38:21

And there's 50 million people around doing it. No, I ain't talking about it. If you cool with me, you know me, then you already knew pretty much what I wasn't going to do. And it's not about being tough. It's about understanding the necessity of God and the essentiality of who you are as an individual, because all of us have to contribute who we really are and who God is making us for the world to change. I'm not my father in the faith. I love Apostle Hulkin because he always told me this from day one.

Dr. Robert F. Dowell 39:01

Don't miss that. I want to interject this. I want you to run with that, because it just hit my spirit when you said that we all got different people. I think you said we got to reach, or something like that your person. They're all kind of different. And listen, because it just hit me.

Dr. Robert F. Dowell 39:14

If we don't know ministers you need to pick this up If you don't learn how to see no comes from being authentic and being genuine oneself, if you don't know how to release the no's, then you never can find the yes that God wants you to say. Yes to Right, because if I don't say no to that, then I don't have space to say yes to this. But many don't say to no because they want to do it. If you're doing the podcast, or you're doing the radio, or you're doing the TV, or you're doing this, if you don't learn how to say no to be like everybody else, then God don't have the space to tell you the yes. But when you have the space to say no, that's not that, not that. If God can reveal the yes, is the thing that you're supposed to say. Yes to what? Yeah?

Dr. Robert F. Dowell 40:05

I don't do a day of devotion, man, I'm saying no to that man, I'm not doing a daily one, but that's your yes, though, yeah, you might say well, man, I'm not doing this, I'm not doing, and I think that's where the uniqueness come in. I think that's where it comes along, jeri, because, see, I have the grace to do, the grace for the yes that God has designed me to say to you have to.

Dr. Robert F. Dowell 40:28

You got the grace to do the code every day. I got a grace to do what I do, whether the podcast, whatever I do, whatever and I believe that's what ministry needs to realize there's a grace that God has for you and that's why you have to have the authenticity the bishop has to not make people tell you your why, and all of this to be able to find your yes. Now I want you to get to the influences, because I see that's a common pattern too, and you was about to say about Apostle Hockham there might be other mentors share the impact that you know our mentor have had in your longevity, that the role that they've played, and I think that's essential for ministers.

Bishop Charles Johnson 41:06

Well, I have bookends, the first. The first person taught me everything I shouldn't do.

Dr. Robert F. Dowell 41:18

And don't forget that thought you was going to say about Bishop.

Bishop Charles Johnson 41:20

I hope you didn't lose that thought I'm not going to get into him now. The first person I had as a spiritual leader taught me pretty much everything that I was never that I never wanted to be Everything I did not want to be they taught you Wow.

Lessons on Leadership and Submission

Bishop Charles Johnson 41:40

I saw and I looked, I was at close proximity. I've been graced by God to be right next to those leaders, even though I never desired, because when you, when you got things you like to do and hobbies and stuff you ain't trying to, as you, a young man, you're not trying to have somebody break up your stuff. So the more you wind up doing stuff for them, the less you do for yourself. And so I had to make the choice Watch this. I had to make the choice between my pleasure and my future place, even in ignorance. But I signed up for this. So I'm going to go this way. And I got a chance to see stuff and I never said anything because that's not my place, my place. I don't care who he is or they are, I'm still, no matter what I think, I'm still placed in the place by him and you learn how to handle yourself. You learn compassion. You learn a lot of things If you know how to get in place what God tells you and be quiet. Nobody's bigger than you. We're not big in God Like we're going to say. If you don't tell you, you don't.

Bishop Charles Johnson 42:58

My wife used to say Charles, why are we? I said because I heard him say come, but I ain't heard him say go. I'm not the feelings type person. If you told me to come, I'm here, I'm not going to lie. And all of a sudden, well, I think my season is an over. Well, go back and think again, because you just told me you heard God tell you to come here.

Bishop Charles Johnson 43:22

Be consistent, man. Don't be playing these little games, and pastors need to check them on it. Hold up, man. I'm not stopping you from going, but let me make you understand something important your words will be valuable in the future. Start practicing getting word equity now, because if you keep running your mouth and talking about how you feel and then everything's not right so you're just going to leave, man, getting your place, stay right there. You told me you have a future. Well, this is how you get there. The road is not paid flat, is a lot of potholes. There's a lot because there's people who've come before you, have fallen and failed. No, god didn't repave the road, he just left it the way it was and told you to walk it. And so now you got something to say. You ain't been in ministry five minutes, be quiet. That's the first thing. The next thing is when I saw that I declared something.

Dr. Robert F. Dowell 44:26

You learned what not to do.

Bishop Charles Johnson 44:28

And I said I will never. I ain't talking to other folk, I'm talking to me. You've got to be able to tell the one person who has the greatest influence over you. No, you have to tell them yourself. The greatest person with influence over me is not God. The greatest person is influenced over me because he can say something.

Bishop Charles Johnson 44:49

I still got to decide to do it and so, no, that's where people get all spooky about it. Really, come on now, I don't care who you are, it comes down now. You notice, you got to make a decision, to choose which one. And I decided I never do that. And guess what? I left that pastor went to what is that? I went to Fort Hood again. I went back to Fort Hood. I started at Fort Hood, went overseas twice and then went back to Fort Hood and I got a pastor and he taught me. One taught me what not to do. The other one taught me how to be strong. He taught me how to stand your ground. He taught me how the wisdom of things that I learned and how to apply them in my life as a leader.

Dr. Robert F. Dowell 45:49

Who was this pastor?

Bishop Charles Johnson 45:51

Awesome man. He was awesome. He was an awesome leader. He's passed on Him and Apostle Huckum was friends in Killeen and he's the only pastor I've ever had that. When I told him, when he found out that I was years later in coming to Connection International, he came to Killeen to a red lock you know red locks through a red pastor to walk up to me and to say I am so glad that you're with him, I'm so glad you're with him, and told Apostle Huckum, he's a good one.

Bishop Charles Johnson 46:34

I learned what not to do. Okay, I learned how to stand and from Apostle Huckum he came in my life. Apostle never talked to me about my gift. He never talked to me about my church. He never talked to me about anything ministry Everything I learned about ministry I learned at the same time you did sitting right there with you when he was telling everybody, even when I was a presbyter, he didn't sit there and do all that. He talked to me about how to be a good man and all the years we've had him I still cry when we do he's the only one that cared about my family and my future outside of the pulpit. He never bothered with how I talked, how I preached None of that. He worked on me as my example of how to be a man of God.

Dr. Robert F. Dowell 47:40

Give us some. It might not be personal, but just in principle, so it can help those that might not get dead. Oh man, and then he'll ask us in apostle how do you go about doing? What does that look like? Kind of, take us, you know. You know what does that look like Because it seemed to be touching you.

Bishop Charles Johnson 47:57

Now, even as you share that, I would be with him and you would see certain things. But he would do stuff like I would be close enough to hear somebody say something, and then I could hear him say I mean, one time in Germany we were having a, he would come over and visit all the churches and so as the presbyter you had to set that up. You had to set up that tinerary, everything. So he had passed the vows there. He's traveled overseas. He comes here. I've given everybody what they need to do the night he gets here. We drive over there. He's I think he's tired.

Bishop Charles Johnson 48:41

We conduct in the service in the Netherlands and a particular pastor is slated to take up offering. This pastor gets up, turns their back to me where I'm sitting with apostle. You know that takes up. Now you know, don't fall out to chair 35, if not 40 minutes. Now there's a lot of pastors that still in the covenant. That was there the first thing that happened. When they did that, everybody looked at me. I'm human. I'm about to get up past the dial and get the mic myself, because I'm not. I really don't care about all that.

Dr. Robert F. Dowell 49:34

We'll fix that text three points upon man and illustrated 35.

Bishop Charles Johnson 49:40

I'm out there and they know better. They know better they were a pastor. They know better. Apostle puts his hand on my knee I'm fuming, bro, and I got a couple of pastors you know they name sitting around joking and clowning because they know I'm about to erupt.

Bishop Charles Johnson 50:03

They know me and they like all right, they're thinking like here you can hear them in the back. He's going to come down because we've always been like come to countdown and pastor vow is the tips of her ears is red. An apostle will get cool, smiling, being positive toward that. And he says to me smooth. He says, presbyter, everyone is looking at you, what are you going to do? And he leaned back up and he kept on doing without him telling me what to do. Man, the spirit of the Lord said change your face, follow your example, we get finished. He goes up. It's late. He goes up. He sings a song. He tells them what you know.

Bishop Charles Johnson 51:03

The hour is far spent. I just want to pray for some people and then we'll pick it up tomorrow. He goes on. He does what he does. He's walking past me. He says this presbyter, would you take me to the bathroom? Now, here come the brother in me what? Take you to the bathroom? I'll take no grog in my mind. I'll take no grow man to the bathroom. You know, because I'm from there. I'm not mixing it all up.

Dr. Robert F. Dowell 51:34

You know I'm still big. You just real man, you are thin it like that man.

Bishop Charles Johnson 51:39

See, that's why we got past the valve, because that's the valve is who he used to deal with me. Past the valve, she said so I walk with him. He ain't saying nothing, he just just bouncing, walking on smooth A possible. Now I'm standing. I ain't going to the bathroom with you. He said come with me, we go to the bathroom. I don't have. I said I don't have to use bathroom. You said you ain't trying to go to the bathroom, so I go in.

Bishop Charles Johnson 52:10

Apostle uses the bathroom and he says this. He says son, how are you going to handle it, presbyter? And the Holy Ghost speaks to me again. The Holy Ghost said I'm not this handle, and that's what I told him. He turned and looked at me and he said very good.

Bishop Charles Johnson 52:32

And as we walk back, the Holy Ghost kept talking to me because he was able to get me in a position to where I wouldn't quench the spirit and keep the spirit from teaching me, because you have a mind. We're trying to get the mind of Christ, but many people won't let the mind of Christ mold the heart for Christ. And in that moment he taught me that. He said ain't that wrong with you being furious, but why do you want to distract everybody else. Have you such a compassionate person? If you such a great leader, it's already gone left. Pick your time to get it to go right and sometimes, if you do it the right way, you won't cause collateral damage and you won't feel so grieved about it when you leave.

Bishop Charles Johnson 53:29

He taught me with my wife, he told me. He said I noticed that you never try to tell Renee to go teach and preach and do this and do that. I said but I've been really trying, I've been wanting to, I've been. He said don't press, don't push her. And I said, sir, he said that ain't your gift, that's your wife. That ain't your gift. He said church folk. He said church folk and church stuff will cause you to get a divorce. He said what's the big deal? That's just a sign that they ain't paying you no attention.

Dr. Robert F. Dowell 54:16

Oh, jim's, man, Jim's, I see that, and that has nothing to do with, which is good. We need to know pulpit etiquette and how to break a sermon down and we need those things. But these things you ought to have done, but not leave the other things undone. And that's what true mentorship, that's what true relationship. That's why we saw, we did a series before Dr Johnson, we talked about mentorship and ministry and we kind of wrote that horse for a while and that doesn't seem like a very, if you would, sexy or exciting topic.

Dr. Robert F. Dowell 54:51

You know, we're going to deal with some things that I'm looking forward to bringing you down, man. You've been dropping some gems, man, about revelation, man and brand, you own your code. I'm just telling you, man, I want to deal with that, like, how do you go about doing that? What's your methodology? I know Holy Spirit, but you know because because minister need to know that how do you go about? It was keeping it in the word that you're not coming up with strange doctrine trying to be cute. So I'm looking forward to having you on with that, but you're helping us to see the importance if you're going to have the longevity, if you're going to have it. I like to put it this way If you're going to have substance and just not sizzle, I mean how would you?

Dr. Robert F. Dowell 55:32

feel, man, they bring it to restaurant and they got a whole lot of sizzle and they take the stuff off that man. Ain't no meat in here, no substance, no vegetable. Yeah, we don't want to have sizzle with no substance. And I see you have something wrong with sizzle, nothing wrong with style, but what was the subject? And we can get so caught up with set style and sizzle. We have no substance.

Dr. Robert F. Dowell 56:01

And I believe that mentorship helps us to have that. And you got the substance, man, and I want to have you back on. We can deal with that with revelation, but you're helping us to see the mentorship that influence those men to help you be a man or a woman, a good husband, a good wife in ministry, a good man. Those are the things that help us have the staying power that we have to care up stuff, because I look forward to going back over the podcast and I'm hearing this, the wisdom that you learned, and it's helping me that I can even help those that I mentor that timing is the thing that need to be taught in ministry too. That's simple, but timing, no, that's essential, man, you said that's what you put down.

Bishop Charles Johnson 56:50

You said something, pastor, and I know we get ready to get close to closing for all young preachers. One thing that I've noticed about everyone that guy called everyone. That guy calls, except two people are being called. People are answering calls, with one exception to that. When Paul was called, he accepted the call. The next thing the Lord said was go to Ananias' house and he will tell you or show you the things that you're going to say. He said if you suffer with me, you'll reign with me, suffering and how you follow. Notice what Jesus says follow me and I'll make you Make you what Able to continue after you have suffered. Many preachers are burnt out because they were going for success when he was saying your success is found in how you handle suffering.

Dr. Robert F. Dowell 58:22

Oh, back, back, back. I know that can rewind it, man, that can rewind it. But can you rewind it? Say that again, man, that's worth saying again. Say it again your success is found in your suffering.

Bishop Charles Johnson 58:35

That's where you get it in your suffering. Jesus says I learned obedience through the things I suffered.

Dr. Robert F. Dowell 58:46

Jesus man, you hear something?

Bishop Charles Johnson 58:49

We're trying to be successful when that's not the curriculum.

Dr. Robert F. Dowell 58:54

Come on now. Come on now. We keep it 100 on the five-fold food. They pulled up a table, they pulled up a chair. Man, they're eating. They got the coffee. They eating with us. Man, let's keep this thing 100, man. So you're telling me am I wrong, that I want a full attendant ministry. I want more than 10 people in my church. I want to go to the nations. I do the Facebook live, I do the YouTube, I want people to buy my book. So help me understand that, because I'm looking at that success. Help me, I do want to. I want to get invites. You know what I mean.

Dr. Robert F. Dowell 59:35

I want to get out my house. You know I don't want to be meeting in my garage. I want to build one day. Help me, Help me. Am I wrong in that?

Bishop Charles Johnson 59:42

doc. No, no, no, no, no. You said it. You said the answer earlier. You said it. It's prioritizing, jesus, asks Peter. He says love, is thou me more than these. He doesn't say you can't love it. It's the priority you place in your love. I love ice cream, but I don't love ice cream more than I love chicken, and so when it's offered, I made that for one. When it's offered, and I have to make a choice when the presentation is made, I show the proclivity within me for that. And what he was saying was you got all this stuff out here that I know you love that, but where am I in that Is? Am I above you wanting the your itinerary field? Am I above you not being in your garage? Am I above? Hey, I think my battery is going down.

Dr. Robert F. Dowell 1:00:52

Oh, you are.

Bishop Charles Johnson 1:00:53

Can you edit?

Dr. Robert F. Dowell 1:00:54

this. No, we're good, we're good, we'll be good on it. Let me know when, if you, if you out of time, whatever, but we're good, we'll be able to close because it got dark.

Bishop Charles Johnson 1:01:04

Hold on, I can plug it.

Dr. Robert F. Dowell 1:01:07

You got yeah, you need to plug it. Yeah, we'll just get over here. Yeah, there's still, there's still with us. Man, this, this is good, let me, let me break this down, man, oh, y'all picking up what this man is Putting down, and I think that's a prophetic word in there. What we're, what he's giving you stuff, is to keep your plugged up.

Bishop Charles Johnson 1:01:31

Yeah, yeah, yeah yeah. So, there we go.

Dr. Robert F. Dowell 1:01:33

You're gonna die See, yeah man.

Dr. Robert F. Dowell 1:01:36

Your battery won't die and what you're saying, that we need to plug into this the code. See, that's what I'm telling you Dropped on the code. Enlightenment that what you just said, that I was, I was successful and I was substance is found in our suffering and the wisdom I hear in that as a father at this stage in my ministry and the ministry and I believe the other fathers that may be listening to this that need to share with their sons, but then also sons and daughters need to learn this, that what you one part, to have the longevity and ministry success in ministry and substance in ministry, they need to learn about the suffering of ministry.

Bishop Charles Johnson 1:02:18

That's right.

The Suffering and Substance of Ministry

Dr. Robert F. Dowell 1:02:18

You don't see suffering on Sunday morning, man, you see the Jews. They give you your Jews, man, they got your briefcase, so they serving you. They see anniversary. You know the lights you're going here. They see you on Instagram, you know you're going here. Ministry now on in you. They see the lights, but in order. They don't see the substance. They see what they call could be success, whatever we call that. But behind every good success that's been a level of suffering, that that that many never heard the story. Just because you don't know the story Don't mean there's a story not to tell. And many young ministers. That's why I like this platform, because many time when you are teaching the word of God, you you're about teaching the people the word that's going to help them go to the next and to learn about God that you don't spend the whole time talking about Charles.

Dr. Robert F. Dowell 1:03:09

You're talking about him. So many ministers and many people never know your, your story, because you're preaching his story. But I believe if you're going to have success, they need to know your story. That's where the mentorship comes in, that's where the relationship, that's mean, that's from afar, that's right. Minister, you can't walk from afar. You got to get up and close. Why? Because you can learn about suffering, and I believe that's what we need to tell them about, because that is a suffering part of ministry.

Bishop Charles Johnson 1:03:40

Yeah, I believe that broke.

Dr. Robert F. Dowell 1:03:43

We're not talking about being sick. We're not talking about being broke, we're not. But there's a suffering of rejection, of disappointment, dying to your will, betrayal, man. If I were to pull up my shirt, past the dust and man, you'll see a cabbage man with my heart been broken. If I pull up my back of my shirt, you'll think down Were you a slave?

Bishop Charles Johnson 1:04:05

Yeah man, come on man.

Dr. Robert F. Dowell 1:04:06

Man, it's your name, Koonter, from the whip, but you don't see that with the shirt on that, I don't know. There's some scars underneath yours, man, you probably got to cut what I mean, but people don't see that suffering Right. But that's why you got substance, because you learn obedience to the call. I feel that annoying to now.

Bishop Charles Johnson 1:04:31

Yeah, and I'm glad you have this.

Dr. Robert F. Dowell 1:04:34

You learn obedience to the call, to the call to ministry in your sufferings, and I think that's a part of what God want these ministers to know and to learn. That we need to learn, and so I'm so glad you talked about that that suffering, that's the thing that we need to learn. I don't even know how cold it goes we jumped in on that but, man, I picked that up when you said that it's in the suffering and that's what you just helped me and I'm going to make it in my endeavor that I want to be able to share with ministers. I might even do a podcast with this, not just to, like Paul said, I want to glory in my infirmities that we need to have a podcast at some time for ministers to know, like these are the things that you will suffer in ministry, not to scare you, but you need to know. This is where you're certain, because they, because they haven't known that, they thought it was all lights. I'm going to be honest, I did, but I made it through when I started ministry. This is what up my mindset. We're Pastor Johnson.

Dr. Robert F. Dowell 1:05:30

If you preach the word of God, they'll come running. You build it, they'll come. Just preach the word man, they're running. I thought I had to do is preach the word and I thought people just come running and I thought, like that, I want just meant, man, it's. It's a lot more than just I'm talking about, it's more than numerical growth, is more than that. But I thought, man, I thought if I just preach, they'll come. It's a whole lot more than that, ain't it?

Dr. Robert F. Dowell 1:06:05

You know, man, it is because I had to suffer through it. See, I didn't know.

Bishop Charles Johnson 1:06:10

And that's how you get there.

Dr. Robert F. Dowell 1:06:12

I didn't know. I didn't know I would have to suffer through lack of attendance in my early days. I didn't know that, that I would have to suffer through Like what people walk in the building said man, this ain't it to get up while I'm preaching and to make you wonder do you got the goods?

Dr. Robert F. Dowell 1:06:29

that'll get up while you're preaching and leave, or get up and say, nah, this ain't it. And you got to suffer through dealing with do I got the goods or not? Come on somebody, I didn't know I would have to suffer through that because nobody told me and that's why you say you in position us for now.

Bishop Charles Johnson 1:06:51

Covid was is a revelator. Covid was an exposure because of COVID. Of course, it had the negative things that happened, but one of the things that God was revealing was a lot of people are upset that a lot of people who were at their churches are not at their churches. The absence of people at church, I believe, is to expose the leader to himself. It also exposed the person to come to church that came to church to themselves, because when the congregation shrunk and the fluff was gone, it had nothing to do with them. Now God is revealing why. You in it. Now we know you said it was in for me. No, no, God says that. That's that pride thing. He.

Bishop Charles Johnson 1:07:59

I remember when we were in Germany we have myself and Dr McGee have the two largest churches there and he was in Ramstein and I was up in Wurzburg up north and we were just doing well and I remember when I came here and we the Lord, let us to start victory community church, we grew so fast and then we had two locations but two different churches name and we were just flowing. So I'd never experienced that. It was a continual, perpetual, short time span, growth. I get here and I'm now all of a sudden people leave in. This is happening. So you go from being on TV, you go from all of that and you come down to where you're looking at the back of chairs. Man, I'm sitting there looking at it and I just won't say anything. I'm full time ministry. You know all of the stuff that goes along with it. Now those things are pressing your soul. You got a house note, car note, this, that how you're viewed, all of those different things are going on in your psyche because I don't care who you who was preaching. You still human, with supernatural ability and access.

Bishop Charles Johnson 1:09:37

I remember I was so bitter on one particular day. Man and I walked away, got in the car and I went to go home and when I got home, I went to bed and when I was asleep, the Lord showed me a dream. He showed me and he was in front of me and I was in a pasture and as I was walking, he was. He didn't even move. He just said come and I started coming to him. He said stop and when I stopped I felt something hit my leg. He said come. I didn't get a chance to look. He said come. I kept going. He stopped me again and I felt something hit my leg. I went to go turn around again. He said come, and I came.

Bishop Charles Johnson 1:10:28

And the third time he says stop. I was real close to him and I went to look. He told me not to look, but I looked anyway and when I looked there was sheep. What had been following me was sheep. And another thing that I got a revelation of. I saw all these sheep. But I looked back at where I started walking from and then I saw a pack of wolves. They weren't following us, they were amongst us and the only way they were exposed was because I followed. But then I followed him so far that when he said stop, I didn't listen. The third time I turned and looked at the sheep, got caught up in the sheep, got caught up in the wolves and when I turned around he was gone.

Bishop Charles Johnson 1:11:31

He was gone and he was saying now that you've gotten so much distance, you've gotten so much experience and skill, so you're just going to stop obeying me. So you can stop obeying me and still have sheep, be able to see wolves, but how are you going to feed them and defend them from them. He said you can look at the back of a chair, but don't you dare. And he rebuked me. Don't you dare get upset because of this empty seat, because you're in pride. You think they came to see you. We don't take attendance, we don't own nobody. All we were supposed to do was show up and now I am the happiest I've been in and my members know I am so blown away with how awesome my 60 or how many ever it is, no headaches they receive. He said because I never called you to a crowd. I called you to make disciples.

Dr. Robert F. Dowell 1:12:55

Man, this is so good because that goes back to that priority. Love is not any more than this. Isn't that the wrong with seeking first having these goals and aspirations, but to keep them in a proper place. That's the whole thing. That's where the success at, the joy at the substance at and I see many have made that mistake because they've gotten things out of priority and there's a level of suffering in that that we suffered through that until we could get the substance out of that Before we close. Dr Johnson, man, this has been a man. We got to do this again. That way I get you while those that are watching, and so we'll know it, because I know you're a man of integrity, because you said it earlier that your work needs to. I don't know. We were talking about how your work got to have equity, right? You said that, right you?

Bishop Charles Johnson 1:13:45

work on that equity.

Dr. Robert F. Dowell 1:13:46

So I know we got to talk about all this revelation that you dropped on us. Man, we need to know how you kind of get it, how you dig this stuff out, how God gave it to you. So can I get your word that I can, at the time that, work right With your schedule? Now can I get you back on the podcast again so we can break down some things? Can I get your word for that?

Lessons Learned From Ministry and Mentorship

Bishop Charles Johnson 1:14:08

Man, I told you in private. You call me, I'm available. Yeah, but we could. You don't have to worry about whether I'm coming. We just got to schedule the rent.

Dr. Robert F. Dowell 1:14:21

Y'all heard it, y'all put it in the chat, put it in the chat. Y'all put it in the chat. He said I just wanted to get you work, man, because I know there's so much more, we got so much more to say, but we're almost out of time for this podcast, but so let's do a rapid fire, okay, because I want to hit your thoughts. It just helped us right there with a mistake that you made that I think I said, minister, kind of like getting your out of Jesus in yourself. So let's do a quiet Because I want to help some of these ministers and pastors and bishops, apostles, whoever's watching us, real quick. Can you just show real quick, maybe, a mistake you made in ministry early days, whatever, and the lesson that you learned, because it might keep another minister from making this mistake? Maybe a pastorial, maybe as a young minister or whatever? Can you just maybe speak real quick, rapid fire, give a mistake and a lesson so we can learn from that that you made in any aspect of ministry that you feel comfortable in sharing.

Bishop Charles Johnson 1:15:20

The first thing that I learned from all of this? Well, one of the major things I've learned from all this is to live my life according to how God designed my life. If he's the life giver, then I need to have everything on my whole faith, everything that he is. I need to do it like he built it. I need to go from the end to the beginning, and what that means is, once I caught on, I took a, I drew a picture of a tombstone and I put my birth, my name and my birthdate and I put a hyphen, because I don't know when I'm on that, but I do know what I want written on it and I wrote down what I want people to say about me when I die. And from that day on, I've been living in that direction. By design, I've lived.

Bishop Charles Johnson 1:16:20

Everybody makes a vision board, but they don't make a vision board by their death or their funeral. I wrote me a vision board about what I want people to say about me as a preacher, as a husband, as a father, and I live every day according to that. I want people to say that he kept his word, that he had integrity, that he was not easily moved, that he loved his wife almost more than life. He was an example. I wrote all that down and every day it keeps me on track at the end of a day to say whether I am still resolved to do it. And then the opportunity comes, if God wakes me up, to do better.

Dr. Robert F. Dowell 1:17:04

That's good. So prior to that, dan, what were you doing? You were just living. For what, before you made that determination to live by design? Were you doing it? You was doing it the wrong way. What were you doing?

Bishop Charles Johnson 1:17:19

I was doing it from the point. I was living my life according to the word of God, without somebody who really knew God. I was trying to do this on my own. The Bible does not authorize any person to live for God alone. Everything in the Bible is mentorship, everything is mentorship, everything is mentorship. You can't inherit the promises without somebody to imitate. You can't find anybody where God doesn't partner them up.

Bishop Charles Johnson 1:18:21

Samuel would have never been the prophet he was if it wasn't Eli who taught him here. And so, when we look at stuff, you got Jonathan and you got David, if you think about it. Who was there with Saul? He didn't even walk with Samuel. Saul was solitary. You can't find who he was following. You don't.

Bishop Charles Johnson 1:18:51

And so, with those things being the case, I realized that I was living a mentor-less life, trying to figure it out on my own, and that wasn't-you cannot heal yourself, you cannot develop yourself. That's good, and so that's why we've had Apostle Holcomb, who gave us the pattern. Many of-a lot of our brothers and sisters, man, they didn't get it. I used to be as the presbyter. I would have to answer this question all the time. I would say well, you know, I don't know how you do it how you preach and teach with Apostle, preach and teach. I can't do that. I was like it's not that you can't, it's that you just don't know how. I mean because and my know-how is not the same as your know-how- I think that goes through your authenticity too, and that's for another time.

Dr. Robert F. Dowell 1:19:51

Yeah, because you're not a copier, you're not a counterfeiter. I've listened to the code. You know I wouldn't listen to the code like I do when I have an opportunity to, if it was Bishop Holcomb much respect. That's my ministry, that's where I learned ministry. That's my DNA, that's my pattern, that's my model. He's my mentor, my motivator, but I wouldn't listen to the code if I was listening to Bishop Holcomb 2.0 or read a remix. I've heard that it's going to always be a knockoff.

Bishop Charles Johnson 1:20:33

Come on man, and you heard-.

Dr. Robert F. Dowell 1:20:36

You've never been the same. If you were doing the code, I can go get the original. I go on YouTube If I want to just get him to Kisses and Cleveland. You doing Kisses and Cleveland you doing. You know a souffle man, I go to the original.

Bishop Charles Johnson 1:20:51

We got that. Yup, we got our kind, we got the same spirit, though you know what I mean.

Dr. Robert F. Dowell 1:20:56

You were preaching it. You've taken ownership of it, though, and now it's getting unique, you coming out.

Bishop Charles Johnson 1:21:04

That's it. That's it Because you hit the nail on the head. When Apostle was teaching, he wasn't teaching our congregation, he was teaching us. We were not supposed to get it so we can run and preach it. We were supposed to get it so that we could live it, and then, from our living it, the message doesn't sound the same. He would come to our church and he would see something and he'd say, oh, I did a series called Revelation of a Difference, we know it. And he said you got eight, did it ease? When I did it, I only had three. I was like, well, it takes me longer to explain it, you know, but you would take it and listen to it. And he would say, well, it's supposed to be like that the thing, and I want to go ahead and get ready. To close, I want to share something with you.

Bishop Charles Johnson 1:22:02

I told all the ministers, I told Apostles, I was on a platform teaching this. This hit me like a downpour. I was walking across the platform teaching at a leadership conference and I said many times we, as overseers and bishops and Apostles, we don't necessarily know how to handle what our support system produces. And so when we look at it this way and this way, because we never taught them their role. And I said I want everybody here to write this down this is your responsibility as kingdom Number one.

Bishop Charles Johnson 1:22:46

You, as a follower of God, are supposed to, every day of your life, imitate. I said, but the next phase in your life is for you to innovate. And you have to recognize when your pastor or your father in the faith says okay, it's time for you to go do this, it's time for me, I want you to do this. That's where you imitate and then, when he sees the imitation, he'll release you to innovate. Because every time we hear a message, it's an innovation. It's not the same, because the person who's listening isn't the same. It's not the same day, it's not the same devil, it's not the same season. You can preach. One thing you done went back in 10 times. I bet you, if I play it side by side, it won't be the same.

Dr. Robert F. Dowell 1:23:45

Oh man of God, but see, that goes again. I can't flow like that, dr Johnson, because it goes, which maybe you say.

Bishop Charles Johnson 1:23:55

We say they can't flow like that.

Dr. Robert F. Dowell 1:23:58

What do you say in the imitation and innovation, the reason they can't? Because of the Genesis. See, that goes back to your Genesis. They can't go like you because in your Genesis, yet though, you, you were imitating, but in your Genesis there's an authenticity to you. I think we got to. You're not a copy, you're not a count of it. And the point that I'm making is you are imitating, yes, but because in your DNA it's like I'm taking it, but it's a new answer that I'm imitating, but I'm still my unique self. I'm not going to make up a why no?

Bishop Charles Johnson 1:24:37

you're right.

Dr. Robert F. Dowell 1:24:38

I miss that. They. They get it. It's a revelation of a difference between copying and being an imitator, as we follow people, as they follow Christ, and I think that's why it's so important.

Bishop Charles Johnson 1:24:50

That's why we can see how people can miss it Right and we have to define the term that we use. One of the translation says imitate, the other is the input. Is what I'm implying? Followers? The same Greek word for imitate is follower. He's saying be a follower. Now, different than copying. See, there you go. You see what I'm saying.

Bishop Charles Johnson 1:25:17

So what I'm saying is from the term in pasting follower right, because if you look at the term follower, the word follower is what we were created to do. In the English language also carries the connotation of follow, but other people don't see the use of that in the same way, because something is copied. But we understand the term follower and so I appreciate that, because one of the most important things is when he says follow, he's saying bring everything that you are and have experienced, get behind me, remember from comic books, get behind me and stay there. And where I'm leading you is going to take everything that has happened to you and everything that is in you and shape it. Because we don't take the same situations the same way. The composition of us gets put together in a different way. That's why we're young people going along.

Bishop Charles Johnson 1:26:27

Right with what you said, there's a difference between fitness and being fit. Fitness is what is the result of being fit. What a lot of people want to do is be fit without fitness. They want to just go get in, and if they can't get in, they try to force everything around them to make room for them. But following God is the fitness for the soul. It causes the soul to become shaped to the point where it falls in line. Mind, emotion will line up behind the Holy Ghost so they can follow. We have to go through, we have to follow so we can get lined up to follow the ego. But if you don't deal with the ego, which is yourself or yourself, it won't line up. And now you're trying to force yourself in with all the rough edges, with all the bad attitude, with all the bad habits. You're trying to force your way into something that you need to follow your way into.

Dr. Robert F. Dowell 1:27:44

See, man, we're going to have to put a pin in it. Man, I'm telling you we got to get you back on because that's the revelation and I'm glad you put it and you broke it down exegetically. That's why we got to get it back on. I knew it in my spirit, but you broke it down exegetically. That's why I said there's a revelation of a difference. When they hear imitate, they're copying and pasting. They figure I got to copy and paste.

Bishop Charles Johnson 1:28:12

No, and that's it.

Dr. Robert F. Dowell 1:28:13

That's it the revelation of a difference. No, no, you said follow, bringing all that you are, all that you are to it, and so that's why I believe many missed it. That's why I said because of your genesis, though your authenticity yeah, I agree, authentic, and I believe that's why many can go shipwreck and ministry, and I hear this you go from imitating, following to innovation, and that's where you find your elevation. And many never get the elevation because you never had innovation, because you never followed anyone, you never had a pattern to follow you know, you know let me give you this final thought before we close.

Dr. Robert F. Dowell 1:28:57

Any follow thoughts on this last minute before we close. I pray that you all that have watched this and watching this I pray that you've been blessing you all. The list of the podcast Be sure that you subscribe. Be sure you get in contact with Bishop Johnson. Be sure you go to live for the RG. Check him out on the colonist, facebook and all the platforms you can find him. I believe the bless you. I'm looking forward to having him on again. That's so much that we put down today. I predict you go back and pick it up. Any final thoughts. Man to God, I appreciate you. My brother, covenant brother. I've enjoyed this. I hope they've enjoyed it as much as I have, man and the notes that I have. I can't wait to go back over and mend the suffering. That's where your substance is, man. I can't wait to go back, man, and preach some of this stuff. Living by design. Man. I got some message titles here we can do.

Bishop Charles Johnson 1:29:47

Many people are living by design.

Dr. Robert F. Dowell 1:29:49

That's why they're living behind, because you don't live by design and so you need to stop it. You need to stop it. They know it's good. Any final thoughts man to God.

Bishop Charles Johnson 1:30:01

The final thought is I have that. I have for this is thank you, and because of this I want everybody to know. One of the things that you can do that nobody can stop you from doing is for you to be the best friend that you could ever be. When you become the best friend you could ever be, you'll start and move closer to being like the songwriter. He's closer than any brother. We're trying to be our brother's keeper, but Jesus is closer than a brother. We want to treat each other better and enjoy each other longer. That's my heart's desire to be the best friend that I can be. If I do that, then I'll leave an indelible mark on whoever I encounter. Thank you, my friend, thank you and your wife for the work, for the plow that blade is sharp, and thank you until the next time we come together.

Prayers for Success and Growth

Dr. Robert F. Dowell 1:31:12

Amen. I look forward to it. I pray that you've been blessed. If I was on the code, I would say be sure that you teach what you've been taught so that you can live what you can learn, so others can taste and see that our God is good. But since it's not the code, I want to leave you.

Dr. Robert F. Dowell 1:31:28

I pray that you have eaten well fivefold, minister, so that you can excel and never forget. No matter whatever you are, no matter what you may be doing, god has destined you for greatness. I believe that you're going to live better. I believe that you're going to do better. You're going to release all the brilliance that God has in you. Until our next time together, we'll see you. Thank you, my friend, thank you, pastor.

Bishop Charles Johnson 1:31:52

God bless.