Leadership Beyond the Pulpit: Dr. Pastor Clinton Cornelius

This episode is more than a conversation; it's a heartfelt call to action for leaders to infuse their work with love and genuine care. As we navigate the ever-changing tides of technology and social dynamics, we underscore the importance of evolving leadership styles to remain relevant and effective. So join us as we share tales of leadership triumphs and teachable moments that promise to bless you with strategies and insights for thriving in ministry and beyond. Your leadership journey continues here at Five-Fold Food—thank you for breaking bread with us.

It is time revolutionize your approach to ministry. Together with Pastor Cornelius, we dissect the intricate dance between leading and serving, urging you to embrace the 'towel ministry' as a symbol of discipline and servant leadership. Through personal anecdotes and reflections on common misconceptions in ministry, we advocate for a proactive rather than reactive approach to leadership, emphasizing the need for preparation and adaptability. Bishop Holcomb's legacy of making every person feel valued serves as our lodestar, guiding us on how to lead with both vision and heart.

Transcript

Dr. Robert F. Dowell 0:09

Welcome to the Five-Fold Food Podcast hosted by Dr Robert F Dowell, where ministers receive the spiritual nourishment they need to succeed. The Word of God declares and he gave some apostles and some prophets and some evangelists and some pastors and teachers for the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ. Prepare to receive revelation, wisdom and insight to empower your ministry for victory. Now let's eat.

Dr. Clinton Corneilous 0:46

Let's eat, praise the Lord. God bless each and every one of you. Welcome to another edition of Five-Fold Food. I'm your host, dr Robert F Dowell. I'm excited about today's podcast. I want to encourage you, wherever you may be listening or viewing this podcast, that you would like and subscribe to the podcast, whether you're on Spotify, apple, youtube TV. We ask that you subscribe so that you can get all the latest podcasts as they come out. Also, we ask that, if you would, to give us a review. Please take time to scroll down your phone, your device that you're watching this or listen to this on. Give us a five-star review. It helps us get more in the algorithm and then share this podcast for other listeners, and we'd like to hear from you as well. Also, if you look down in the show notes, you'll see a place where we have some resources that I have. That'll be a blessing to you that I believe that will cause you to eat well as a five-fold minister, so that you can excel Free resources. So be sure you look down in the show notes on the link tree Also can excel free resources. So be sure you look down in the show notes on the link tree Also. We would appreciate your financial support. Any love gift that you'll give would be very much appreciated. You'll see a place there so that you can support, so we can continue to give this message out to help the fivefold minister.

Dr. Clinton Corneilous 2:01

I'm excited about today's podcast. I want to bring on our podcast our good friend, our regular contributor to our podcast. We can't really call him, he's not a guest, but he is a regular and a frequent contributor to the Five-Fold Food Podcast. He was instrumental in helping me birth it out and talking with me and it was through our conversations that we will often have and I probably said it for maybe over a year or two. Man, pastor C, we got to start recording these, I got to get back to doing this podcast. So I'm so thankful for our regular contributor. I want to welcome him back, dr. Regular contributor. I want to welcome him back, dr Cornelius, pastor of Peaceful Believers Church in Fort Meade, florida. Thank you for being with us. How are we doing, pastor C?

Speaker 3 2:52

Praise God, I'm doing well, sir. What about yourself?

Dr. Clinton Corneilous 2:54

Everything going good on this end man, man, everything's going good on this end, excited to be able to do this thing again. Praise God, and what a blessing and what a privilege that we get to serve God by serving his people and his ministers and just having an anointed conversation. And I believe that if we have this conversation, there's going to be some revelation. So, as always, we want you to pull up a chair and get at the table, pastor C, because we believe if they pull up a chair at the at the table, pastor C, because we believe if they pull up a chair at the table, they're going to be able to eat well so that they can excel and you know that's the whole essence of our Five-Four Food Podcast so that they can be a fly on the wall. And so I am looking forward to our conversation today, pastor C, I've been dealing with in this topic that God has had me in this vein for the ministers that we're dealing with the topic.

Dr. Clinton Corneilous 3:54

Ministers that excel know how to lead well. So this is what we're looking at, that ministers that excel. So this is what we're looking at, that ministers that excel and I believe every minister, whether they're a pastor, a prophet, evangelist or whatever they want to excel in their ministry, but I believe, in order for them to excel, they have to know how to lead well. And I like to say it, pastor Sid, I want to say this again that I think it's important as we frame this conversation is this again that I think is important as we frame this conversation is this that many times when we see a minister excelling, if they're excelling in their pastoral ministry, whatever that looks like to us, if they're excelling in the evangelistic, the apostolic, the teaching, whatever area, if we see someone that's excelling, someone that we aspire to, that we look up to and say, man, they're really doing that thing for God.

Dr. Clinton Corneilous 4:52

What we often do, Pastor C, we see them exce, true, and so we equate what they do in the pulpit to being the key to them excelling in their area of ministry. So much to the fact, pastor C, that some, when they see people excelling in their ministry and they see within the pulpit, they say within themselves surely I should be able to excel as a prophet, apostle, evangelist, pastor, teacher, because what I see them doing in the pulpit I can do as well or even better. So how are they excelling? And I'm not?

Dr. Clinton Corneilous 5:45

And I believe that's what we hear in lies to problem, pastor C, men have equated their success at them excelling to what they do in the pulpit. But I'm under the persuasion, pastor C, to those that excel is because they know how to lead well, and those are things that they don't see them leading their organization, how they deal with people outside of the pulpit, and so that's why I think it's crucial. I want to hear from you why do you believe it's crucial for ministers and leaders to excel outside of the pulpit, and would you agree with my assessment? We just want to get hit the ground running with this conversation.

Speaker 3 6:29

Yeah, I do agree with your assessment Basically, just because someone can preach a message, that don't mean just because they can preach that they pastor, that they're a pastor. And when I think of pastor, that means leading, that they're leading Now you used the word that they want to sell is the one that lead well. So what's well? I think we have to be what is leading well For me, I think, as a leader, you that well. You winning people. You know how to win them over, because it's leading is to influence. So what you're able to do is win people over to get a task done that's outside of the pulpit, outside of the pulpit, outside of the pulpit. I think often times In the pulpit, in the pulpit, you're seeing in the pulpit, the finished work Of what I did behind the scenes, because there's so many things that have to be put together For me to come to the pulpit Before I even get to the pulpit, because If I am not winning people, I'm not effective in the pulpit To before I even get to the pulpit, because if I am not winning people, I'm not effective in the pulpit. To be honest with you. So, yes, you're delivering a good message, but if I haven't led those around me, the ushers, whoever's over. The ushers, the deacons, the armor bearers, those that I lead around me make it easy for me to perform or to minister from the pulpit Because of the things I did outside of the pulpit in leading them, and one of them is that you win them over and you emphasize excellence, a good lead.

Leading Well

Speaker 3 8:20

You emphasize excellence, so you need excellence out of the pulpit. You're going to win people over. You emphasize excellence, so you need excellence out of the pulpit. You're going to win people over. You emphasize excellence in that. And then you cultivate an attitude of learning, meaning you got, you're influencing people, you're winning them over. You're saying we got the flow of excellence, and then what you do is that you want to make sure you cultivate on the inside of them, that we learn how to lead and how to get the best out of people. I, I. So that's why you, you.

Speaker 3 8:59

And then the next thing is in in leading well, you, you, you lean on people. That has nothing to do with your trust fight. Do we still trust God? I understand the scripture in Proverbs. You know, trust the Lord with all our heart, lean on your own understanding, but we, as a leader, you lean on people. So, to answer your question, why is it important? Because if you're not winning people over, if you're not emphasizing excellence, if you're not taking the time to emphasize the importance of learning and if you're not leaning on anyone, you ain't good out of the pulpit either, because normally you're drained, you're tired, you can't put forth your best effort because you haven't led well outside of the pulpit.

Dr. Clinton Corneilous 9:44

That's good stuff. I like how you broke that down the W, the win, then the excel, then have an attitude of learning and lean. That's how we lead. We excel, those that excel. They know how to lead well. I like that.

Dr. Clinton Corneilous 10:00

What I think is so important and for those that may be past the C, that may be on this podcast for the first time, you know, if they want to get in contact with this man of God, like I say you, pastor, peaceful Believers Church in Fort Meade, florida, you can reach him at PBC word, at Gmail dot com. You know you are a frequent contributor, but we always have new people watching and listening. You know you are a frequent contributor, but we always have new people watching and listening. I want them to be able to reach out to you, to be able to connect with you. But what I was saying, pastor C, I believe this is important for ministers to lead well and I want them to see and I want to get your thoughts on it. I want them to see it from the aspect of you talked about on that Sunday, like with the pastor, in terms of the auxiliaries, the armor bearers and different things. But I want them to even see it beyond that as well, as when you're seeing those, whether Facebook, or you go to a conference and you're seeing someone hosting their conference an itinerant ministry I want you to see the reason that they're excelling and they have the people there. If you look at that, you know, man, they got people coming to listen to them. They're at different venues. They seem like they're doing it on social media, whatever that is. You see them excelling. Oh, man, they having a training of the prophets, they got the intercessors, they got this, they got this course.

Dr. Clinton Corneilous 11:30

I want them to begin to see it's because of their leadership, not just because of what they're preaching or teaching, because what they're focused on is just the preaching and teaching. So I want you to see it, even beyond the pastor. I want you to see it at those because, like you said, in order for them to get to that place where they had the venue and they had people at the venue, or they had their course and people signed up for the course, they had their mastermind and people showed up for the mastermind. They had their prayer vigil and people came. The reason if it excelled like the man of God said, I want them to pick up is because they were winning with people. They were winning people to their cause, not just winning souls. So I see a people aspect before the event, then them learning. They had to learn different things about with the venue, with the social media, how to set up for them to do transactions online for the course.

Dr. Clinton Corneilous 12:37

So I want them to begin to see that all those things are leadership and working with people and building teams, because I think many have not put the proper value on their ability to lead. I think the value has just been on their preaching and teaching, and so that's when we see people excelling, we think it's only because of what we see them doing in that moment. So I like how you said that it was the thank you Lord. It hit me this way. Like you said, it's the leadership that often got them to that moment. When you see them in front of the people whether a pastor or any person you see doing any of your ministry or an auxiliary leader within a church, if they're excelling as well, and they're excelling as well and they're leading a group of praise team or deacons or ushers, it's not their ability to preach or teach that make them lead well, it's their ability to be able to win, and so I think that's so important.

Speaker 3 13:37

Work. One thing come to my mind you're talking about you have to put in the work as a leader. That leader puts in the work, work. What, pastor, I put in the work and I embrace that that this take in some areas, this take a team effort. It's going to take a team. So I work at learning how to master working with people. See, that's the thing I embrace, that that this is going to take a team. So I got to work at leading people, mastering getting people, influencing people enough to get people on the team. So I call it that near my thing.

Speaker 3 14:30

The word of God says when near my showed up, not with a Bible, let's be for real. When near my showed up, it said the people had the mind to work, to work. So near my came in with a strategy. How are we going to get this done? When he came, he didn't even come in empty-handed. He had the lumber, he had the stuff that we was going to use, because then he got with the king. The king wrote the letters as he was going through, he collected the supplies. What are we going to need to do it? So now, what I got to do? I got to lead the people. The same people, same wall that was torn down, same problems. What made the difference? How they got the wall built? A leader came along and all of a sudden, now the people had the mind to work, because Nehemiah recognized it's more than me coming here preaching to them. Why do we talk about Nehemiah? We don't talk about Nehemiah preaching. No, we don't relate that Nehemiah preaching. We talk about Nehemiah and his leading. And the people had the mind to work. So what come to mind?

Speaker 3 15:45

For me, it required work, and you're embracing the fight that this is going to take teamwork. So therefore, I've got to learn how to win people so I can put in place what I need to lead. So you've got the learning is a must. You've got to keep sharpening those skills in how to influence people, how to move people. What I mean by move people? Move people to get stuff moved for you. If that makes sense. I want to get to a point how do I move you to get this moved for me, whatever that needle that needs to be moved to get things in place? I got to learn how to do that. That's why I got to embrace the fight. I need that team and I got to get out in front there I say you do it by W-O-R-K, you got to work. It's work outside of the pulpit.

Dr. Clinton Corneilous 16:42

The work is a leadership work. That's my point. It's a work of leadership where you have to be able to build a team, recruit a team, train a team, delegate with a team and oversee a team in any aspect that you're going to be successful in Pastoring your itinerant ministry and that's what I want the ministers to hear, because what they do is going to what god call you to. Whatever your level of ministry is going to be bigger than you. So whether you're birthing your own ministry and you're going from places it's a, it's a virtual ministry, or wherever you go, it's going to be bigger than you and so inevitably you're going to have to be able to have a team to help you. And then you're going to have people that want to support you, and that comes to being a good leader, not just a preacher, teacher, singer leader Because of your leadership. Now you have people that you've influenced, that want to come and support you, and that's the part I want to see, pastor C. I want people to begin to see to excel.

Dr. Clinton Corneilous 17:51

You touched on in a moment. You talked about having influence. Can you kind of unpack that a little bit more? So let's break it down to the lowest common denominator. What are some leadership responsibilities that leaders need to be skilled in or ministers need to be skilled in? And I said on one of the other podcasts where we're in this series about ministers that excel, lead well, there's an importance of having a proper hermeneutic to be in your homiletics, to be able to exegete a text to know about, and we'll talk about how to open up, how to have a good introduction, how to have a closing. All of those things are important, pastor C, and moving in prophetic and apostolic dimensions, but I think what happens is sometimes ministers only focus on those things and when they don't have the leadership piece in place, then they're not able to excel in the degree that they desire. And I know that's what I learned even in pastoral ministry and in ministry A key to effectiveness is being not just a good preacher but a good leader.

Leadership Strategies for Success

Speaker 3 19:04

OK, some of the skills. You got to know how to strategize. A leader got to know how to strategize regardless. You know strategize for what. You need a plan in place, leaders. What's your plan? Because, see, if you don't have a plan, a goal. A goal is I'm aiming at a target. That don't mean you always hit the target, but at least you, you, you know how far you are from the target because you got some in place. What that got to do with as a leader, so let me, let me get it set up. So I. So we just added something major in our church. We just added something major in our church. Okay, we just added an LED screen, a large LED screen. Okay, so, as that leader outside of the pulpit this has nothing to do with the pulpit Okay, first of all, the strategy become how do how do, as a leader, we get this in place?

Speaker 3 20:10

What's your strategy for getting this in place? I'm no, I don't need to come up with what I'm preaching suddenly trying to make sure I get. No, I'm talking about, if you're going to lead, you got to be able to put people in place to get this in place. Who's going to maintain this when you get it in place? How effective is it going to be? What else needs to be moved and put out of place so this can get in place?

Speaker 3 20:37

So my point is you got to have a plan, you got to have strategy to get all of this done and do it effectively. What just hit me is you got to know how to build a stage for you trying to run to get up on this stage. So oftentimes we just want to get on this stage and be good when we get on this stage, but it take a leader to build a stage where you take the time to get the people, to get the team to build that. So I think that's one of the keys is that you got to be a strategizer. Another thing as a leader, let me just say this.

Dr. Clinton Corneilous 21:12

Don't lose your thought. I want the ministers, I want you to think about this, jot it down, process it. Do you have a strategy for the ministry that God is giving you in Not that I want to bless Do you have a strategy, a planned strategy to, within your local church or whatever, as an elder, as a prophet, apostle, the area that you are leading in within your church or moving in? Do you have a strategy for that area area, the altars, the children, the youth? If you're over the, you know the adjutant, whatever you do, it's their strategy. Are you building a team? You have a strategy, because I want you to begin to think about these different areas. If you're going to be able to excel, you need to be able to do that.

Speaker 3 21:59

Keep going, pastor C. That's good. The other thing you have to keep as a leader is a tower A tower, not a tower. A leader have to recognize that. I'm called. I'm called to the ministry of a tower A tower ministry. Never heard. What's that See with that tower? What you do? You use that tower as a leader.

Speaker 3 22:21

Sometimes you have to use a tower to pull somebody up, because we're talking about building a team here. You got to know how to pull them up. Sometimes you got to use that towel to teach how to tie people down, because sometimes people get out of control and you have to lead them. You got to know how to tie them down without choking them out. You tie them down but at the same time, you're letting them know what I mean by choking them out. You time them down but at the same time, you letting them know what I mean by choking them out. If you don't time down properly, they feel like you're choking me. I can't breathe. I'm not allowed to do what I feel like I'm called to do. But since I'm leading, I got to teach them that there's order in everything you do. The timing is important. So I have to learn how to.

Speaker 3 23:07

As a leader, I got to learn how to use that towel, sometimes to tie people down, sometimes to a point where I got the Muslim with it. I got to let them know this ain't a good time for you speaking this, I know how you might feel, but I got to teach them how to control their tongue field. But I got to teach them how to control their tongue. All this as a leader. So that's why I say strategize.

Speaker 3 23:28

Also, recognize you're called to use a towel, the importance of a towel. Also, as a leader, you serve. Jeeva said hand me a towel. When Jeeva said the greatest one among you is the one that's willing to serve the others. So I think a good leader, recognize I'm a servant leader. I am a servant leader, I serve. I'm out front, but I serve, okay, and my purpose in really serving is to teach you how to serve. See, I serve you to teach you how to serve, instead of me looking for you to serve me, to say I'm teaching you how to serve. And when you teach people around you, as a leader, how to serve, then it come natural for them in serving the areas where they might minister to you, I serve you as their leader.

Dr. Clinton Corneilous 24:24

Good stuff, I see, because what I'm picking up, what you're putting down in, when you have the towel, when you have that mindset, like you said, to serve, when you have the strategy, those qualities help you win over people, helps you get influenced with people. By doing that now you're able to help move them, like you said, area, and then they're able to help support, like you said in nehemiah, because he was a prepared leader, he came with tools, he had a strategy. And so many times we can't accomplish our goals, nobody support me, I can't, nobody come out because maybe you hadn't, you hadn't led well, you sung well, you prayed well, but you hadn't learned well Before we move on. Pastor C, this hit me, I just thought about, I was thinking that really helped the fivefold ministers see the value, the importance of the leadership aspect? You know of what they do, and many times I've seen when it comes to pastorate sometimes only when a person gets into a senior pastorate that they see the importance of leadership and their effectiveness. But then it's almost a little too late now, because now you're playing catch-up, you should already know how to lead, but some never see it. They think that it's all about preaching and teaching, but beyond the senior pastor, then others. They never saw the value. Well, I'm not a senior pastor, I don't know if this podcast that part not for me. They never saw the value either in them growing as leaders. And it hit me, and maybe you can add to this, that when you grow as a leader and they move as a leader, excel as a leader, their value increase.

Dr. Clinton Corneilous 26:16

Yes, there are value for the people. There's a value on a fivefold minister who can lead. What do you mean? There's a value. You become a hot commodity or even a rare commodity. Why? Because you're gifted and maybe you're preaching and teaching and praying or prophesying that ministry aspect. That's what your fivefold is, your ministry, how you impact a person one-to-one. But when you're able to lead, now you're not leading one-to-one, you're leading one-to-many.

Dr. Clinton Corneilous 26:53

Now, people in your church, your organization, whatever you're in, even in the marketplace, whatever you are, if you're not the senior leader, you become a valuable person and this is what will cause you to be elevated, promoted, brought to tables. Why? Because now you can lead, you can oversee other people, other projects, and so now your gift of leadership make room for you. They're only so sometime you can't excel. There's not a place or room because they never excelled in leading and so this is where I want them to see that become valuable.

Dr. Clinton Corneilous 27:38

Then it helped me, see, it just hit me. They get a voice. You now, people want to hear you. You get at the table, not because of your prophesying and singing, preaching, teaching, no, what sometimes give you a voice because of your leadership. You're leading the ushers, you're leading the team, you're leading. Now you have a voice. A voice Now you're at the table. You got a voice and because of your voice you get levels of victory. I just felt that the frame, anything you add to that so they can see Pastor, because that's my heart, that they'll see the value.

Speaker 3 28:13

Yeah, and I know we did it with all five-fold. I know you did it with all five-fold, but if you don't mind me, I know you deal with all five fold, but if you don't mind me, from a pastor point of view, what I hear in that is that, to be honest with you, dom, I feel that I do on a Wednesday or on a Sunday, because how I lead on Monday, tuesday, thursday, because they want to listen to me, because how I have led off the stage, because of that. So you're talking about the value of it. If I feel like it's a turn off ear if I'm weak in the area of it, is I feel like it's a turn off ear if I'm weak in the area of leading, if the church is in a chaos. Now I'm up trying to preach, folks ain't hearing me because I'm not good at leading. And what hit me as an example is if I got little kids and you come over to the house and we're having dinner we've got you and First Lady over for dinner I got little children running around, or let's say, me and Frenchie grandchildren and we're not good leaders and the children throwing food. They're doing all of that. So what happened is that turned you and First Lady Alicia off from hearing much? Because what y'all looking at? They can't even discipline their own kids. They're grandkids. It's chaotic. So in y'all mind you all begin to think I see them, just don't see they have control.

Speaker 3 29:54

So my point is that's how people see you out of the pulpit. If you're trying to get a message over, to win me over, but yet you cannot lead because the church is kept on it, everything is out of place, there's no excellence there, there's no order there and you're trying to get folks to hear you. Folks ain't listening to that because you can't control this. You got to get that under control, and getting something under control require good leadership skills. You got to know how to have leadership skills.

Speaker 3 30:29

So I agree with you you carry more value, very valuable, if you can lead and you can sing, if you can lead and you can pray. Because if you're on the praise team and let's take the praise team you could sing, but you can't lead them. So guess what? There's no harmony there, and I'm not talking about with the singing, I'm not talking about with the singing part, but you are not in harmony because y'all got some chaotic stuff going on. It's some gossip, it's some talk going on and you as that leader, you can't lead that. So now y'all up there trying to sing, but folks recognize there's no harmony there. We can tell there's no harmony. It's frowns on everybody's face. Everybody don't even look the same why? Because the lead part is out of whack.

Dr. Clinton Corneilous 31:22

That's good, that's good, that's good. Same way, we won't belabor the point, but if you don't lean well now, people won't support your cause. You have an event, and like when nobody didn't come to my event and I had my desk conference and this, and they came to their event because, see you, you thought it was just because of what you do. They were winning people, they were building relationships, they were impacting, they were building influence. Henceforth, pastor C, can you share uh, we go deeper in this can you share a personal story from your journey as a minister that kind of highlights the effectiveness of leadership outside the pulpit? Is any story, or something that we can kind of put it, of leading outside of our preaching, yeah, outside of my preaching, or I mean, we can put in our praying too. Whatever our ministry, you know our prophesying, you know that, that ministry that we see there, that that?

Speaker 3 32:19

give me an example of that yeah, um had to purchase some property, had to purchase some property. Um, now I I'm gonna, if you give me a little leeway, I'm gonna lead into it in that it started. It started, if I can put it this way. It started, let's say, in the pulpit. I started at a gathering that was spoken that I was at with my bishop, at what we call an in-gathering. So it definitely started and someone was spoken to all of us. That was there, our bishop spoke something and he said to us that the Lord was saying you in the room because the Lord said I'm finna, expand your ministry, your churches. The Lord is saying expand, I'm finna, expand you.

Speaker 3 33:12

So after leaving that meeting, about two weeks later, I was sitting at my desk looking outside my window and it's a piece of property directly across from my church. So I'm dropped in me hey, y'all need to buy that property. We have been trying my previous past, I've been trying to buy that property for years. Nobody would. The guy would never sell the property, never, ever sell the property. Long story short, god is my witness. I'm sitting in my office. I get a call from a member that lives across the street and says Pastor, there's a guy here at my house asking me about this property beside me and I told him I don't want to buy it. Told him about the property he shared with me that my approach that I needed to take with the guy was not as a preacher Let him know, you're a preacher but now what we're dealing with is a business deal how you deal as a business, as a leader, as a leader. So the guy didn't care anything about me, what scriptures I can quote, how much word. I needed to know how to get that property purchased. So I called one of my elders to handle that area for me. We went over some numbers, we did some research nothing to do with my preaching but I had to leave that. We own that property. Now we own that piece of property now. I've owned it for years now. Called my bishop back and told him that we purchased the property Okay, we own the property. Went through a lot of loop. I had learned some stuff with banking, all of that me and the elder I had in place there. We own that. So that's one example.

Speaker 3 35:01

To come outside of the pulpit where I had to operate in that Now, that's just one. But we got to be honest with the people. Take away Dr Cornelius the pastor In my community. In my community you take away Dr Cornelius the pastor and in my community what you see, I'm a chairman of about three or four different boards. That has nothing to do with what I do in the pulpit. I just sat in a meeting yesterday, pastor Don. I just sat in a meeting yesterday at a school in regards to a softball field with a couple of ADs that we needed to get something done. I sat there as not Pastor Cornelius. I sat there as Mr Cornelius want something done for this board. I represented that we need to get this field done for these kids. So that's the difference. I say, if you ask me for a story, I have many because I have to leave outside of the pulpit oh no, it's good.

Dr. Clinton Corneilous 36:06

The essence of it is you were able to advance. You know, and getting the property and your impact in community because your ability to leadership, because your ability to lead and conduct business. So that's one of the skills that that's part of being a leader being able to do business, take care of business and knowing how to matriculate. Through that and that shows that because, if not, we can fumble the moments. Yes, you know what God want to advance your church. If you're a pastor, in terms of building acquisition or land acquisition, your itinerant ministry or even just equipment, you can fumble moments because you didn't take care of good business and so that's all a part of leading your scheduling and where you're going and leading. I think all that's important. Let's talk about two, ms. I think that'll help the ministers. Let's talk about I think that it helped the ministers.

Dr. Clinton Corneilous 37:00

Let's talk about mindsets or misconceptions and mistakes. Let's talk about mindsets. What's some wrong mindsets or misconceptions, what's wrong mindsets that ministers have regarding leaders? Because I believe it this way I see to be forewarned is to be for before. To be forewarned is to be forearmed, but then also, many times, people can't get to their spot because of their blind spots. They can't get to their spot. Why they got a blind spot. And a blind spot is a blind spot, because you're blind to it. That's why it's called a blind spot. I believe with laying this out, we can maybe help identify blind spots that ministers may have. So let's talk about what's the wrong mindsets or misconceptions that they may have about leadership.

Speaker 3 37:56

Just pray about it, it'll work out. That's a misconception. They think that's just leading, it just just pray about it. So I think a misconception is that we don't uh, it's not a misconception, but I think it's a mistake is that we don't deal with elephants in the room. We just to pray about it, that we throw everything off and then we'll just pray about it, that we throw everything off and that we'll just pray about it. God will work it out instead of us working, us working, us doing what we're supposed to do. That's the misconception. That it's just going to go away because I'm spiritual enough to pray it away. And where?

Speaker 3 38:35

Another misconception every, all adversity, almost all problems that I face, it's the devil. So all I got to do is just cast it out. Instead of lead, I want to cast it out Everything based on us trying to make everything spirituality, everything spiritual. That's the misconception in leading that we make it all spiritual. We want to put all on everything. We want to cast out, as a leader, the way I deal with a problem. I cast the problem out. I don't deal with the elephant in the room. What's really there. I don't try to get to the root of it. What I want to do is that it's the devil. It's the devil and let's just pray about it.

Dr. Clinton Corneilous 39:18

I think that's good. So that's even like you said. There are mistakes too.

Speaker 3 39:25

They have a wrong mindset that leads to a wrong mistake. So it becomes a mistake. See, what happens is the mindset leads to the mistakes and the mistake you made is that you don't know how to approach it. When you got a wrong mindset, it normally leads to you making mistakes. Now, another mistake is not knowing how to deal with the elephant in the room, and a mistake is you're trying to eat the elephant all in one swallow. You got to take it one bite at a time, so we got to break this thing down. See what is the problem, why the elephant is here.

Speaker 3 40:00

I got to be sensitive to everybody in the room because everybody can't handle how I'm going to come. All that come with leadership, why? Now I got to know people. Get to know people that you're leading. You want to be sensitive. Timing what my pastors always tell me, my former pastors always tell me. You can say the right thing, but at the the wrong time and you mess it all up. So timing is important Knowing when to speak, how to speak to people. We cannot swallow this elephant whole, but we can get rid of it. But it's one bite at a time, so I got to know how to go about doing it. Bites are strategy. You got to have a strategy. You got to have a plan to be able to deal with adversity, those kind of things. But if your mindset wrong, you're going to make the mistake to try to eat this whole elephant at one time, Because in your mind, your mindset is it's a devil and we just pray it away. That's good.

Speaker 3 40:56

But it gets bigger, it gets bigger. Man, it gets bigger. Till you deal with the problem. The problem grows, it get bigger. Till you deal with the problem, the problem grow, it get bigger. And as I tell my congregation all the time in a joking way, enroaches only come out when company come, and so eventually it shows up at the wrong time.

Dr. Clinton Corneilous 41:13

I hear these words, these things you ought to have done and not leave the others undone. Yes, it's okay to put oil on it, prayer on it, but then you still need to put some decisions on it, some strategy on it, and I think that's what we undervalue the impact, the leadership. They didn't just pray, they walked around the wall and shouted, they did something too. And so you got to look, I call it, putting wisdom to it.

Speaker 3 41:40

I say you put wisdom to it. Yeah, you use your faith, you use that, but you put wisdom to your faith. You put wisdom to it. So now my prayer become Lord, give me wisdom how to work through this, how do we get through this? That become my prayer, not just a prayer for it to just be gone. No, my prayer become not just, like you say, the wall to be gone. He said walk around it and one of the keys was obedience. He said use some obedience. You got to be willing to obey. Don't open your mouth. He said keep walking, keep walking, and then at a certain time you're going to shout. That's obedience.

Dr. Clinton Corneilous 42:17

That's good, and you mentioned in there a nugget you dropped about knowing people. I pray, I hope our ministers, you all, are getting this. In any area, your value, that you, that you want, you want to excel in your ministry, whatever it is, you gotta lead. And that's one of the misconceptions. They undervalue the importance of leadership and they think they're going to get there by the singing only, the prophesying, only the anointing, the signs and miracles. Because this is what happens, pastor C, you can have say you work in signs and wonders and miracles and arms grow out or whatever it is. You preach the house down, you sing, you dance, whatever you do. Okay, you write, what'll happen is what you're leading will eventually get tore up and messed up. When the need for good leadership comes to show up, there'll come a time and you, whatever you're doing, you, you, you got crusades, I mean when good leadership need to show up, all that you built or get taught up. Not because of lack of anointing, lack of discernment of you know demons, it's because you didn't know how to lead and part of that needed. You know how to deal with people. So you, you, you ran some people away.

Dr. Clinton Corneilous 43:51

I've seen lady on social media. Me and my wife talk about it frustrated leaders. And I see a leader you know praise team people, whatever. They're rebuking the people. And I know people say, oh, you shouldn't do that, I get it. But then beyond me, the leader in me says they handled that wrong. But that's a frustrated person. That's the person who's been frustrated, disappointed and they don't know how to deal with their pain. So they're throwing up on the people. They've beaten the people because they don't know how to lead. So they're throwing up on the people. They've beaten the people because they don't know how to lead. So, since they didn't know how to lead, they didn't know how to properly correct, how to correct, when to correct. They didn't know how to bring order, to bring things in alignment, to get people back on course, to get people back on vision.

Dr. Clinton Corneilous 44:41

And so what happens is, pastor C, whatever you're doing, inevitably you're going to have to have that ability to lead and because of that mindset that is not valuable.

Dr. Clinton Corneilous 44:53

We don't put time in to learn these things, to go to a seminar, to read books, to make it through podcasts like this on leadership. So salute you all that are on with us now, that are watching this by replay or you're listening, because those are the things that help seed the essence for us to see, because that causes us to mess up moments. When I look back, even on my ministry, I look at some things now in retrospect that caused me some problems when I, when we, hit some spots and some turns, it was because of my, my ability to lead that caused me to have some things that to bleed because I couldn't lead. So now, things that have happened, I can deal with them better because I'm a better leader, and I think that's the. I think that's a big misconception right there, because it's going to come a time. See, whatever you build, you're going to deal with people paying problems that you're going to have to be able to lead.

Speaker 3 45:56

I'm not saying anything. Yeah, you said a whole lot, but one thing you said that I picked up on. You said you got to be able to get people back to vision. How can you get people to a vision? See a good leader, have a vision out in place, see, so if a misconception is, you just do everything on happenstance, it might just happen. On happenstance, it might just happen. No, you got to have a leader, has the vision and a mission in place. So you can't get people back on vision if you ain't first of all got a vision in place.

Speaker 3 46:31

So I heard that when you were speaking that and it will become a time whenever I don't care all of us it's going to become a time where you got to show whether or not you have the ability to lead, because leading, dealing with making decisions, is not just quoting the scripture. It's dealing with being able to make some decisions, and some of those decisions could be game changers, man, and it usually comes at pressure moments. How do you handle the pressure? How do you handle the pressure? How do you handle the pressure? Sometimes it'd be funny to me to hear people let's say the preaching part, and what they say is the Lord giving us the city, okay, and the city show up and you can't even lead the city. Where are you going to put the people at what you got in place?

Speaker 3 47:22

So a good leader, I say prepare before it happens, see. So if we got an event going on, where I'm more effective at is planning the event, having people in place I call with my leadership team. I tell them ask the tough questions. We need to be able to ask and answer the tough questions the what if? What if this occurred? What's our backup plan? What if we do outdoor plans? We have outdoor. What if it rains? We can't bring the equipment out? All that's leadership stuff that you have to take care of. Once again, I call it building the stage. Before you ever get on the stage, I ask the stage to go crumbling when you get on it, because now you get on the stage, because you like skills of lead, you don't stay on the stage. It crumbles because you didn't have a good leadership foundation.

Dr. Clinton Corneilous 48:17

And I love this because these are the things we don't get in the pulpit and that's why I'm glad that we're able to have this discussion. And for those that have pulled up a chair, because when they're doing their events or whatever they're doing, they're not able to excel because they didn't lead well Not that people didn't pray, it didn't excel because you didn't lead well, you didn't prepare before you got there. Got there, we've both been blessed to serve, you know, under iconic leader, our bishop and late apostle, bishop Holcomb, that you know blessed us in so many ways, and now under leadership of, you know, his wife, pastor overseer, pastor Valerie. Can maybe you share, because he was such a great leader, if I see, maybe a lesson you learned from his leadership, serving under him and watching him? It's always good to pull gems. I know you shared with us in a previous podcast how he made everybody feel like they were important, even though he was the only person in the room. Is there another leadership lesson, something you can pull that you've learned from the man?

Leadership Through Love and Care

Speaker 3 49:26

of God, one word, one word. When I think of my bishop, it's many, but I'm saying in this case as a leader, and this me watching him from afar. L-o-v-e Bishop demonstrated love and care and you know the old saying always say you know, people don't care how much you know you know until they know how much you care. Bishop Demonstrated that. I learned that I pray. I'm close to that With the people I serve here. I'm, god knows man. You hear my heart, hear my heart here.

Dr. Clinton Corneilous 50:04

So you're saying come on now. I never would have thought you would say that. So you're saying love is leadership. I thought you know almost like naming, you know like you're going to tell me to do some deep thing. You know, come on now. We talk about love a lot. I never equated how you equate love with leadership the way I equate love with leadership.

Speaker 3 50:30

If I'm gonna lead you and you're gonna come along, that you got the first ball. Realize I love you. I love you, I care for you. I correct my members. I correct them on the spot. I got a call yesterday. Your lady called. She said hey, pastor, I know you're busy. No, I'm not what you need, what you need, no, I'm not. I got time. I told her if I was too busy I wouldn't answer the phone. What you need, what you need. So for her, I took a moment. That's love for her. Now, if I couldn't give her the moment, I wouldn't answer, I would have to call her back.

Speaker 3 51:11

But I tell them all the time, my deacons, they do visitations for me, for me, and they go out. The number one rule, because it's truth Don't you ever visit at the hospital or anyone and say we're here because pastor was tied up and he loved you, but he was just too tied up to come see you. Oh no, oh no. You share with them. I'm here on behalf of pastor. So, love, have everything to do with it. Man, love got everything to do with it in the league and that's what my bishop demonstrated. He knew how to love the sheep and sheep. His love will always flop to you. They will flop because his leadership deal. I got the first ball. Get them in. How do I get them in? I love them, but some of them nasty, some of them got some hell in them. I love it all out, I love it out. That's the thing for me, man.

Dr. Clinton Corneilous 52:12

I would have never paired those two together, but that's foundational. Yes, talk about if we don't have love on the foundation, we'll sound, and brass a tinkling cymbal, it won't last, it don't have the right foundation. And what hits me with that? I think there's genius, that, a lesson that you could pull. That it hits me is for our ministers and pastors and five-fold people, for the people that you're leading in your tribe, your auxiliary. Are you loving them? What kind of not do you love them? Are you loving them? Is your love being demonstrated? Demonstrated, I mean through your interactions. The people that you're leading. That's on your email list. You know the people also, pastor C hits me. The people who you aspire to lead. Yes, correct, I'm a minister. They listen to this and I want to have this event. You know I help people break soul ties. That's my ministry. I travel and I help people break soul ties on their life.

Dr. Clinton Corneilous 53:24

So, people who you want to influence are you loving? Are you reaching out to people that you come in, contact, pastors that you know and loving them? Why? Because you want to be able to influence them. You want to be able to maybe go and share your message at church. Are you showing them that you care about them, or you just looking for a place to do your generational curse seminar? I see how love go into that, see, because I want to come to your church and do my generational thing seminar. We do it on a Saturday and then I come in and I preach to your people on Sunday. So I want to come there, but they haven't shown that they love you, pastor C, just as a person. So that's what I think that love just reaching out to you and just saying, hey, I really don't know you, pastor C. You know, I'm a pastor, I met you and I'm in your city. Just happy birthday, happy Pastor's Day. Just sending you a note to say I'm praying, see, that's leading by loving.

Speaker 3 54:24

But because leading is relational, dyle, it's relational, it's about relationship. It's relational. That's what leading is. Watch the football team that says that the players love the coach. They play for that coach. They love the coach. They play for that coach. They love the coach.

Dr. Clinton Corneilous 54:45

And it's often said they'll run through a wall for the coach right.

Speaker 3 54:48

Yes, you take your team, your team. I'm always watching that. When people talk about the Steelers I don't care who the players are right now no name always come up oh, they love the coach, they love that coach. So they ain't talking about the decisions he make as the defensive guy, whether that was a good defensive call. They ain't talking about that. They talking about how he is as a leader. Right, as a leader. It's relational man. It's relational. You got to show. It's about relationship and you show love. And I'm telling you, man, I'm a better leader than I am a preacher. Just telling you, you can preach circles around me, but my pastor, always talking and let nobody I lead you. I love you as a pastor.

Dr. Clinton Corneilous 55:44

Herein again, when they, when people look at people they see on social media. They look at people who they see, pastor churches. They look at people who lead tribes and masterminds. They look at people in any area that they aspire to and they measure themselves of their ability to do what they do by how they preach, teach, pray, prophesy or sing, but they don't look at how does this person lead, how do they impact, influence, galvanize, organize people, energize? See how do they galvanize people, how do they organize people, how do they energize people?

Dr. Clinton Corneilous 56:40

That's the leadership and I'm praying, see, that for ministers to excel, continue to learn the moves of the prophetic, continue to learn in your singing, continue to learn in your vengeance, continue to learn hermeneutics, homiletics, all of those things, see, which we need.

Dr. Clinton Corneilous 56:58

But don't forget, we need that leadership part, because those very people who you look at and say, man, I can preach better than them, man, they hardly prophesy, but you don't know how good of a leader they are and that's why they're able to do what they do, because sometimes, because of their leadership, they attract other great people who are able to do other great things for them, because that's the hallmark of a great leader they're able to do other great things for them. Because that's the hallmark of a great leader they're able to attract other people. And so that great coach, he may not know offense but he's able to attract the right people to run the offense because his ability to lead we know. In sports they say it's not the X's and the O's, but it's the Jimmy and the Joe's. That's right, that's right. That's right, man, that's good.

Speaker 3 57:49

And I keep hearing man, how a misconception which I know you already spoke of earlier, but I keep hearing this as the examples you keep using about what we see on social media. All these people in a room and you do feel like maybe you can preach better than them. But the question is or prophesy or prophesy, and they got all these people. So my question is you know what? You know how they got them in the room? They led them in the room. They led them in the room. Leaders they leadership ability, that to influence and the impact is what got them in the room? See, it wasn't maybe the prophesying and all of that. That ain't get them in the room. What got the people in the room? Is they led them in the room? Is they let them in the room?

Speaker 3 58:43

The ability to lead I'm telling you, it attracts. That's very attractive when you can lead people, when you can lead them, love them and lead them. I'm telling you, I found out people that you love on and you lead them properly. They don't leave you. They don't leave you Now. Let me share this. Now Let me share this. They might leave your place, your space, but they don't leave your life Now. I don't have people that leave peaceful. They leave the space, but they don't leave my life. They still call. They still call me pastor. All that wasn't based on a text. I took a how I broke down a text that was from leading them. It's how you lead people. Don't leave you. When you lead them, you love them and you lead them.

Dr. Clinton Corneilous 59:40

Oh, that's good stuff, see, I like that. When we see them in the room, whatever that room is, when you see what, josh meyer, you see the people in josh meyer room, we just equate that. She, she, she got them in the room, she led them in the room. Yes, how well she was teaching. But it was her leadership of her organization where she started. I remember when she started with oklahoma city, when I was in the room back in like 1992 or 91, when there was maybe 150 people in the room at a hotel in Oklahoma, but because she led the organization right, she built relationship with other people. It was her leading that. Then, when you see her in a room with 2000, whatever, it was not just the preaching that got him in the room, that was a part, but it was the leading, how she moved, the move she made that the move. That's what we want our ministers to see past. See that. It's just not that. That is your ability to lead and not fumble the moment.

Speaker 3 1:00:42

Right, it's like what you always say, what you see even. I guarantee you, first time you ever told me I never heard you about this here. You never talked to me about it. But I guarantee you, if I begin to ask you some questions, what you seen in the room was triple E. I said now what you say. You begin to tell me some things. I know you, you'll begin to share some things that were triple E, and so, because she had the triple E in her ministry, in her leading, it opened the door for more. That opened the door for more because she was triple E in her leading, not just preaching it in her leading, her leading.

Speaker 3 1:01:21

She was triple E in her leading. It's the little things you picked up on. You seen how organized it was. Everything started on time.

Dr. Clinton Corneilous 1:01:31

These are things that good leaders do and it make other people want to connect with you, network with you, go into you and follow you. And that's when they're leading you. You're leading them, yes, See when they leading you, you leading them. Yes, See beyond the prophesied good pastor. See, when we talk about leadership, it often involves dealing with conflicts and difficult situation. How do you recommend leaders handle conflicts within the congregation or teens while maintaining their role as spiritual leaders? You know, can you speak and just give some wisdom to those that are leading and they're dealing with conflict? You know, with praise, the children. You know the deacons, the elders, they're leading or maybe they might be senior. Just would you give some wisdom in that, as we're going to help them Because, again, to excel, they got to be able to lead well.

Speaker 3 1:02:27

I think one of the first thing I would say right off the top I know it might sound like a given, but conflict is common that's the first thing. I think you have to go in there first of all, realizing this is a common thing. So don't think you're unique to it, that you're just going through it because maybe some things ain't right. No, it's common, conflict is common. So I think that's one of the first things I would definitely say recognize that it's common.

Dr. Clinton Corneilous 1:02:54

Let me say this Don't lose your thought. I just got to emphasize this, because this is common, that you say that when you realize it's common, then you don't approach it over the top. And what I mean by that? See, what's wrong with y'all? See, because that that spirit get on you like I can't believe that y'all acting like this, because that's the point. It's like the child with the sippica waist stuff on your carpet and you see a trail of stuff, the little two-year-old, that's a child, that's common, that's right. So you don't go in like why am I, why not? That you don't not just have to say that see, because that's a sign that we forgot that it's common, when you're over the top with it, that I can't believe that y'all are doing this. I just had to say that.

Adapting Leadership for Changing Times

Speaker 3 1:03:51

Well, I think, god knows, it's the truth. What you said led into my next point, though, is when you asked me you know, how do you deal with the conflict? That you have to make sure you don't blow it up. You get that that you don't blow it up. See, I got to look at this and make sure some things that I don't make a big deal out enough that I blow it up. It's, it's a problem. We're gonna have to deal with it, but I don't want to over over extend this thing till I blow it up and make it worse than what it is. So I think one of the things I would say to a conflict you got to always watch how you approach it, how you're going to approach it. I'm big on this. Y'all going to hear it again, because I keep saying it is you need a strategy and a plan on how to deal with the conflict. Ok, now. Now I need to find what's the root of it. What's the root of it? What's the root of it? I want to go around there and find out what's the root, because if I don't know what the root, I'm going to do a bunch of digging and I might mess up something and I cut the wrong thing and I never do get to the root of it. So I need to find out what's the root of it and now understand everyone is not the same, so my approach to it is differently. I don't believe you put it all in a bag and I can just tell you you approach every situation the same. You don't. You cannot do it all depends on what that situation is and who you're dealing with. Who are you dealing with? Sometimes we expect similar to what you just got through saying about the baby. Sometimes we expect everybody to be mature enough not to do something where everybody's not at the same level or at the same stage.

Speaker 3 1:05:36

So how I address the conflict? First of all, it depends on what is the conflict and it depends on who it is that have created it. What's the root of it? So who is it I'm dealing with? I need to know who I'm dealing with so I know how to deal with them. See, because I don't deal with everybody the same way, because everybody ain't ready for that. I'm not trying to lose anyone. I'm trying to keep them if I possibly can. See, I don't want to run nobody off, but I ain't finna beg nobody to stay either.

Speaker 3 1:06:10

So I want to make sure. I want to make sure that I'm approaching them In the right way and who I'm approaching. So, in a nutshell, whoever you're dealing with, you got to know your people. You got to know your organization the auxiliary you're over. You need to know your people. You got to know your organization the auxiliary you're over. You need to know the people that's in there so you'll know how to deal with them. And then, in that, I think then, pastor Dodd, you take different approaches. It might be well. Okay, I need to talk to them about this right here. I need to approach them and get to the root of it. No, this is the type of person where I might need to bring in a witness with me, because sometimes they say something being said that wasn't said. So all of that has to be dealt with before.

Dr. Clinton Corneilous 1:06:54

I make the decision on how I'm going to go about doing it. Good wisdom, man, and this is what causes us to level up in our leadership. Pastor C, as we get ready to wind this up our conversation today, the landscape in ministry is changing. You know, social media, just so many things in our society advancements in technology, social norms. How should ministers adjust their leadership methods, mindsets and skill sets so they can remain relevant? Because I think they got to change some mindset, skill sets and use different methods. Can you talk to that so they can remain relevant?

Speaker 3 1:07:39

One of the things you got to do is you got to be open-minded. You got to be open-minded.

Dr. Clinton Corneilous 1:07:44

Let me say this. I want to frame it, Don't? Well, ministers, I hope they don't miss it. This is the essence of leadership. The answer to this question, just having the question how do I trust my mindset? How do I change my methods? What new skill sets do I need to change so I can remain relevant? This is leadership. See, thank God, we're going to deal with the text, the sermon, the hermeneutic, the prophetic, the word of knowledge, word of wisdom when to speak, the prophetic word, the apostolic, the mantle and all that is needed. But this, right here, is leadership. Pastor C, how do I change my mindset? Do I got to have any new methods? What new skillset? And if we're not having these conversations with ourselves or among our team and our people, we become outdated and antiquated. So that was the. I just wanted to frame it so they can see just the essence of leadership.

Speaker 3 1:08:41

You're asking your own questions, though, man. I'm telling you, because what happens when I say open-minded and willing to learn, and keeping your ear and your eyes to the times.

Dr. Clinton Corneilous 1:08:57

Okay, so what work?

Speaker 3 1:08:57

before might not work now, so I want to keep my eyes and my ears to the times I got to say that again what worked before. What worked before might not work now but what about?

Dr. Clinton Corneilous 1:09:10

I thought I'm as a preacher. He's the same yesterday, today and forever. This is how my pastor did it in the 90s. He he had a successful da-da-da, the prophet that I follow unto the apostle. This is how they were successful.

Speaker 3 1:09:28

Yeah, but that was then. Why do I want to deviate from what worked? Because it worked for then, that worked then. So meaning at that time, during that season period, it worked it. So, yeah, but you have to change it because things have changed.

Speaker 3 1:09:52

Number one let's give you an example. That media was not the way it is now. People record everything. People record everything. So you have to watch even how you speak. You brought up an example. What you said, you were discussing About what you were seeing, about how correction was opening, why, how you knew about that. Somebody recorded that, somebody put that out on social media and everybody then began to grade it. Everybody began to grade it To say this is how this should have been done. So you got to recognize that that this is not like it was then. So I got to be careful how I and how I respond.

Speaker 3 1:10:34

By then your pastor wasn't dealing with millennials. Millennials are a different breed, for example. Times have changed, people have changed. So now, because of that, a good leader needs to once again keep their eyes and their ears open to now, to this season, and then begin. Now I can take hear me, hear me, I can take some of the wisdom from then, but I might have to use a new method how I apply that wisdom for now. So, yeah, the word don't change, I agree with that, but my approach and how I'm going to use the method in the way that do change how you're going to lead people Now.

Speaker 3 1:11:25

Back then it wasn't as many choices left either. It wasn't as many choices People up and go because they got so many other places they can go to. Hey, I ain't going to sit here, because right down the street it wasn't like that. Maybe before it was more limited. Things are larger, it's more broader. So I got to make sure I'm staying in tune, I'm knowing what's up, to keep up, because if you don't know what's up, you won't keep up. And if you don't keep up now you ain't going to lead effectively. So I do say learning, read, you know, updated stuff, staying in touch with what's going on. I think that helps.

Dr. Clinton Corneilous 1:12:06

That's good one Baptist preacher, I believe. Put it this way that if you're going to be effective and relevant, you got to have a Bible in one hand and a newspaper in the other, correct?

Speaker 3 1:12:22

that's correct. That's really correct. Now, young people this just hit me. That's correct. That's really correct. Now, young people, I just get this. This just hit me coming to a pizza party on Wednesday night. That don't faze them. Trying to get young people in just to have pizza. So we're going to try to grow our youth. So what we're doing, we're having pizza. Come get pizza. That don't faze them. That don't faze these young people. Now we're trying to grow our youth. So what we're doing, we're having pizza. Pizza, come get pizza.

Speaker 3 1:12:53

They don't know how to phase them. They don't phase these young people. Now. I thought they'd always worry. I thought they wanted to eat. No, that don't phase them. Now it don't phase them. We just did a survey last Wednesday. My youth team was telling me how the survey was doing and how they was reading them, and they was reading them and they was laughing about some of the things that the kids said they would like to have now. Man, so we got YouTube that we're watching on Wednesday night because it's Christian stuff, but we got YouTube, it's YouTube in, it's that kind of thing. So we're going to start to have for our young people now.

Speaker 3 1:13:23

We don't always just have praise and worship live right there. They got different other people that we bring in on YouTube for them. They love it, they type in music. This is what they want. So it's different things that you're having to do. We got a couple TVs set up where they play their games. They play their games, so we allow that to happen. We got a certain period of time where they doing that and then we get into what what the word gonna be, that kind of stuff. Why are we doing that? We got the state update to what it is. I'm just trying. I'm trying to get them in the building. I want to lead them in the room. So if I'm gonna lead them in the room, I need to know what's going on to get them out of the world.

Dr. Clinton Corneilous 1:14:05

Oh, man, man, this has been good, pastor C, when we pray the minister, that you are eating well and excelling. As we get ready to close this segment out, pastor C, until our next time together, we're so looking forward to it. Any last words that you want to offer to the ministers that may want to? They feel now hunger and desire to grow in their leadership, or just to kind of put a cap on this, because I believe, as I'm in this series, I believe that God is speaking to the ministers, that he really wants them to excel, but if they're going to as I hear this, as they excel, they'll continue to excel because they lead well.

Speaker 3 1:14:44

One of the things I would do, I would remind them about that. Well, I mean that really, you want to work on winning people. You really want to work on winning people and I think, taking the time to win people when you think about leading. I want to win people, so I want to love on people. When you think about leading, I want to win people, so I want to love on people. I want to look to learn how to let it get better. I'm going to look to learn how do I get better? I'm looking and I'm learning how do I get better? Better at what? Better at leading people, better at influencing people, better at impacting people. And one of the ways you start out the foundation of that is what we talked about earlier. I tell people everywhere you keep loving them. Relationships are important. Keep loving on people, because I want to win people.

Five Fold Food Blesses You

Dr. Clinton Corneilous 1:15:41

Amen, what a way to end this time, and I believe the ministers, as you have eaten well that you will indeed excel. This is our prayer that you will indeed live better, do better, be better and you're going to help be. You're going to be a better leader, you're going to impact people better, You're going to influence people better and I believe you're going to release the brilliance that's in you. Thank you, pastor C. Don't forget to leave us a five-star review. Be sure to look in the show notes. Support us as you're able to Avail yourself to the free materials.

Dr. Clinton Corneilous 1:16:15

Man of God, it's been so good, so much revelation. It's in the conversation. I appreciate you and that many times, when we don't have people at the table, they don't realize the true value of what happens outside of the pulpit, and not just the pulpit for the preacher, but for whatever area you do is outside of what you do, for what you do that makes it effective, so that you can galvanize people, organize people, energize people, so that you could go forward. Hallelujah, this has been Five Fold Food. We look forward to seeing you on our next time together. Thank you, my friend Bless you, sir, appreciate you.