Excelling in Ministry with the Full Plate Concept with Dr. Clinton Cornelius Pt.1

Unlock the secrets to a thriving ministry with Dr. Robert F. Dowell and his distinguished guest, Dr. Clinton Cornelius, as they discuss the transformative "full plate concept" for ministers.  Learn how expanding your ministerial roles can enhance your spiritual leadership. This episode promises to provide you with invaluable insights to aid your journey toward an impactful ministry.

Explore how adopting a "full plate" approach can revolutionize your ministry by preventing one-dimensionality and fostering versatility. Through engaging discussions, Dr. Dowell and Dr. Cornelius illuminate how ministers can break free from constraints of initial training or upbringing by learning new skills and embracing various aspects of ministry. Drawing parallels with legendary athletes, they convey the importance of continuous adaptation and learning to meet the ever-changing needs of congregations.

 This episode is an invitation to embrace change, keep ministry fresh and relevant, and unlock the brilliance within to excel in ministry.

Transcript

Speaker 1 0:04

Welcome to the Five-Fold Food Podcast hosted by Dr Robert F Dial, where ministers receive the spiritual nourishment they need to succeed. The Word of God declares evangelists and some pastors and teachers for the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ, prepare to receive revelation, wisdom and insights to empower your ministry for victory. Now let's eat.

Dr. Robert F. Dowell 0:40

Praise the Lord. God bless each and every one of you. I'll be your host today. I'm Dr Robert F Dowling. Welcome to Five-Fold Food Podcast. I'm so delighted that you're here. It is my desire to help the Five-Fold Minister eat well so that they can excel. I'm so glad that you're here with us for another podcast. I want to encourage you, no matter where you may be listening to this podcast whether it's on Apple, spotify, maybe you might be viewing it on YouTube I want to ask that you please like and subscribe so that you can get all of our latest podcasts when I drop them. Also, if you're watching on social media, be sure that you share it out. Give this link to someone else, another five-fold minister. It will indeed be a blessing to them.

Dr. Robert F. Dowell 1:37

I want to encourage you, if you're watching, if you're listening on iTunes, that you leave us a review. You'll look down in the show notes. You can leave a five-star review. Let us know how you are enjoying the program. We'll really appreciate that as well. Also, if you're listening on Spotify, youtube, in our podcast, look in the show notes. You'll see a link where there's some free resources that I have that will help you in your five-fold ministry some books, some other resources, so please be sure you look in the show notes. Also, we would appreciate your support for the podcast that you can give in any amount, as small as you want to give. It'll help us as we continue to do these podcasts to help the five fold minister eat well so that they can excel Well. I'm excited about today's podcast and today I'm going to be joined by my good friend, dr Clinton Cornelius. He's no stranger to the Five-Fold Food Podcast. I want to welcome him here today. God bless you, pastor C, as we so affectionately call you. How are we doing today? Man of God.

Dr. Clinton Cornelius 2:43

Bless you, Pastor. Dowell man, I'm doing well man, Having a great day here in Florida.

Dr. Robert F. Dowell 2:48

I'm so glad that you're here. You're no stranger to this podcast, but for those that might be viewing or listening for the very first time of the Five-Fold Food Podcast, for those that don't know you, can you kind of briefly just tell us where you're at and what you're doing in ministry? We can get down to today's meal.

Dr. Clinton Cornelius 3:05

Yes, sir, I'm Pastor Clinton Cornelius. I'm in Fort Meade, florida, sunshine State, and I pastor at Peaceful Believers Church. Been pastoring here for 29 years now.

Dr. Robert F. Dowell 3:18

Wow, 29 years. And if you want to get in contact with Pastor Cornelius Dr Cornelius you can reach him at pbcword at gmailcom. If you listened to any of our previous podcasts, you're sure to see and hear him on one of the podcasts. He is a frequent guest. He's one of our resident podcasters here, and so we're delighted to have you here with us. I want to encourage you also that you go to fivefoldfoodcom, where you can subscribe and get all of our podcasts that we have. Also, if you want to reach us in the ministry, you can email me at nlfpastor1 at sbcglobalnet or nlfpastor1 at gmailcom, and so we'll be able to be a blessing to you. Also, again, if you look in the show notes, you can see some of the great things that we have. Also, you can visit my website with other resources that we have for you at dowellbrilliancecom. That is dowellbrilliancecom. That's my website, so you can get other resources and see all those things that can help you in your fivefold ministry. Dr Kniez, I want to get right into our meal that we have for today, and in my last podcast I began to introduce to our fivefold ministers a concept that I call the full plate concept that, in order for ministers to operate in full proof of their ministry, as we hear in the Bible that we need to make full proof of their ministry. I begin to share with our ministers the full plate concept and the full plate to challenge them that they're operating with a full plate. And for that plate we dealt with that, the pea in the plate that they needed to grow in the preaching aspects of the ministry and then we looked at how they need to grow the L in the leadership aspect of ministry, how they need to grow in the altar work aspects of ministry and we didn't limit altar work to just that, what happens at the end. But that dynamic that may happen at the end, of course might happen at the beginning. But to have that Holy Ghost dimension, that flow that's in the message Then we talked about also need to grow in their teaching dimension. And briefly I shared with them, dr Cornelius, how there's a difference between preaching and teaching and I believe in another podcast I'd love to have you on where we can just really do a deep dive into just preaching versus teaching. But I began to use that concept and share with them Again.

Dr. Robert F. Dowell 5:50

You look in the show notes. You can get my free book that I have entitled Foundation for Ministry Longevity. Yeah, I kind of outline some of the different aspects of what preaching and teaching, some of the differences. I kind of outlined some of the different aspects of what preaching and teaching, some of the differences. You can get it on Amazon or you can get it for free in the show notes, because many times I share a path to see.

Dr. Robert F. Dowell 6:15

Many ministers really don't know the difference between preaching and teaching because sometimes they just have a view of what preaching may be from the church that they went to or how they grew up. And so, like I share, even in my own life, I had a stigma when I first got into preaching, because this is what I thought preaching was, and preaching is more than just a whoop, it's more than just grabbing your ear. It's the proclamation, it's the inspirational part, it's not volume, it's not just because a person is loud, that doesn't mean they're preaching, and just because you are not loud that mean you're not. It's that inspiration, it's that motivation. But it can be all of those things and so I begin to share with them. They got to develop in these aspects so that they can be ambidextrous, and then we talked about how they need to grow in their empowerment aspects of the ministry uh the books, uh the podcasts, uh the uh the masterminds, the uh workshops and seminars. They need to make full proof and I challenge them, pastor C, that they don't limit themselves to what they have.

Dr. Robert F. Dowell 7:10

And so I want to go further than today.

Dr. Robert F. Dowell 7:12

I want to just have a conversation, pastor C, so that we can 3D I like to call it Go 3D in our Bible study, so we can go 3D in this podcast, so we can really break this thing down, so that we can break it down to its lowest common denominator. So we can go 3D in this podcast, so we can really break this thing down, so that we can break it down to its lowest common denominator, so we can help ministers in a different way. So today we want to have a conversation and I encourage you to any questions that you have, ministers. Be sure you email me. Maybe we don't share, we don't hit them in this podcast, but we can get them in subsequent podcasts, any questions that you have, because it's my desire to help you make full proof of your ministry.

Dr. Robert F. Dowell 7:46

Let's discuss, pastor C, the significance of this teaching for preachers and teachers today, just this whole full plate concept. I want to just have a discussion concerning that, so can you just share? Let's talk about what do you see is the significance, so that we can frame this, the importance of this type of teaching.

Dr. Clinton Cornelius 8:16

First of all, I feel like that, the plate, the concept that you're using. To me it represents a core of every area, of every area of influence and of ministry. When you look at the plate, that is the core. It's literally that core. And if you want to deepen your influence, if you really want to make up what my watchword is an impact, if you, if you want to make a greater impact, I think you must understand that it's important that that your ministry be what I call multifaceted, that you're not just in one, but you've got different faces of it. And in doing that, I think when you look at the preaching and the teaching part here, as you just mentioned the sniffle of that, it's not just about knowledge but about spiritual growth, and that's what I want to be able to inspire Not just knowledge, but also spiritual growth.

Dr. Clinton Cornelius 9:25

And also, when I look at this full plate, what you're talking about also personal, because if you're going to empower people, you got to have a personal. It need to be personal, a personal relationship there. So I see mentoring in that area. You know, among those that you're dealing with in your congregation, that you're doing it from that aspect. So I think what I'm basically saying in a nutshell that the significance of teaching, the preaching and the teaching aspect is that you make a deeper impact. In my opinion, so and now I'm seeing it like I said, it's Marta, the ministers. Marta faced it it's just not one way, and so it's not just about knowledge, but it's also about inspiring. So that's why I think it's so significant. If you want to tap into people's life, man, yeah, good.

Dr. Robert F. Dowell 10:25

So what I hear from that is that impact, so the whole concept of the full plate, so that you as a fivefold minister can make the greater impact. And even the background of this discussion, as I put this on the table, is the teaching concept that we might break down in another aspect. In other words, I'm dealing with what we're dealing with. I'm going to share you the method behind the madness, just with this question, is the significance of it. What I want the minister to see, why this is important to place a value and a weight on the topic. In other words, when you deal with the significance, the why of a thing, not the how to of it, but the why of it, the importance of it. The Bible, always we use in the Old Testament, talked about if you do these things, these blessings will come upon you. If you don't do these things, these curses, it's a motivational principle. It's the carrot versus the stick. It's like God is motivating. I'm going to motivate you with the carrot, the blessing, or with the stick, and so it's, whether you want pain or gain, it's a principle. And so what it is, it helps people get buy-in. This is a teaching concept.

Dr. Robert F. Dowell 11:43

When we talk about Pastor C, the nuances of ministry in the full plate, what we want to unpack in this second season so they'll be able to go beyond just hearing the word but dissecting the word. Well, my goal is to help the fivefold ministers that God has placed in my life and give me stewardship, and all those that are here, so that they'll become students of the game. Okay, all right, so that's part of that, and so this is what we're doing with this question. We're dealing with the why, the importance, why, why is that important? But because before you even get into your message, good Pastor C, if you don't get by him on your message and get people a hook to get them hooked in, to let them know why they need to hear what you're giving them, then you might not get them for the whole message. So that's just part of even the whole teaching concept I wanted to put that out there.

Expanding Ministry Impact Through Full Plate

Dr. Clinton Cornelius 12:36

That's correct. So, if we're talking about the why, though? So my question become why do I need to get them hooked? Why do I need to get them hooked? You said, because if we don't get them hooked there, I see it's a possibility they get into nothing else. You have to say yeah. So that same concept you have to apply to now in your ministry. If you're going to make an impact, if you're going to make an impact or a deeper influence on people, you got, I think, this concept that you put out here your plate. Need to carry this. This need to be on your plate. That's how significant it is. This needs to be on your plate Because why I'm trying to make a greater impact and a deeper influence on people.

Dr. Robert F. Dowell 13:31

Yeah and see, and this is why I want to just share with them behind the scenes that we're doing both. We're giving them the coin, the front facing of the of the message we're talking, but then the back end, so they can see why we're running this play, why I even started the dialogue with this, because if they don't know the significance of it, then they don't. Then the rest of it you don't get to the other conversations, so we get to the how-tos and we ain't got them on board. So it's about making an impact and I believe every five-fold minister don't want their preaching to be in vain, their teaching to be in vain, their prophetic ministry being vain. So this is how you make an impact with a full plate. Other thing I add to this is that ministers what they can do, pastor C, they can lock themselves into only one aspect of the ministry.

Dr. Robert F. Dowell 14:13

If you don't have a full plate, they lock and limit themselves. I'm just a preacher Well, I'm a teacher. I don't do the preaching thing. I'm a teacher. Well, I don't do the preaching thing. I don't do the preaching thing, I'm a teacher. Well, I don't do the preaching thing, I'm a teacher. I don't do the teaching thing, I'm a preacher. Oh, I don't really deal with that prophetic part.

Dr. Robert F. Dowell 14:33

Leadership, not my thing, that's your thing. Instead of realizing that it should be all of our thing, it just may not be your main thing. And so I think what happens if we don't get this full plate? We limit ourselves to one aspect of our ministry and our ministry can become one dimensional. And this is why this whole full plate thing is so important. And I like to put it this way, pastor C if we're going to flow, whether they're having a full plate, this is how ministers are going to flow. They're going to flow in the ministry because of three things what they have been taught. So, based on what someone has taught you, that's how you're going to flow in ministry. So if no one ever taught you full plate, you may not flow in full plate. Why? Because based on who was your mentor or your teacher, then you didn't get that? Because you never was taught it. You never learned how to break down a sermon. You never learned how to break down a text. You never learned how to do series teaching. You never learned the dimensions of preaching. You never learned how to flow in the altar. You never learned how to be a good, effective leader. Why? Because you wasn't taught. But then also we flow in.

Dr. Robert F. Dowell 15:38

Pastor C, what's been caught? This is another thing. Some things you wasn't taught it, but they didn't know it by virtue of the church that you grew up in, just being there as a kid. That's some stuff that you are caught. It just get on you Phrasology, get on you Movements, get on you Spirits, get on you. And so you caught some things and so many of them don't know why they flow and what they flow in it. Because some things was caught. So some things and so many of them don't know why they flowing and what they flow in it. Because some of us was caught.

Dr. Robert F. Dowell 16:08

So some things was taught, some things were caught, but then some things were just brought. What do you mean? You brought them in, you were born with them and those things just kind of come out of you. They just flow within you. Nobody taught you nobody. You weren't taught it, you wasn't taught it, you didn't catch it. It's just a unique gift, and if you don't have it yeah, if it wasn't taught a cult, then you won't operate in it at all. And this is why we need this teaching, because some things I need to be taught and some things I need to show how there's some stuff that need to be caught, and then I need to know what how there's some stuff that need to be caught, and then I need to know what was in those that I just broke. And so I believe that's so important, because if we don't get this teaching, then we're going to be limited to what was taught, what was caught and what was brought, and for me, I didn't grow up in church, so I didn't catch anything.

Dr. Clinton Cornelius 17:01

I didn't get you anything. So what I hear in that is Is Don't limit yourself, don't become Unlimited. Don't get to the point where you become limited. See, because you become limited If all you're dealing with Is what you call Bingo.

Dr. Robert F. Dowell 17:22

And what do you mean? You caught it in the pews, you caught it on youtube you're limited to that.

Dr. Clinton Cornelius 17:27

That's all you're limited to, and you're limited if all you're doing is what you also brought. So that's why you made the statement you need to be a switch hitter. You're looking for a switch hitter man, you? You need to be a drop-back quarterback, but at the same time, it's time for you to learn how to run with that thing. See that you're on the move. So what ended up taking place is some things you need to be taught, because you didn't necessarily bring that. Yes, see, you don't have nothing to bring it. Now, what happened, though? Don? Now, in being taught it, what? What causes me to shy away from being taught? It is because, once I'm being taught, it don't come easy. It's hard to make the adjustment to it. So I did not value this, because it's easy not to take this as being significant. I value it because I want to go to the less resistant, and all I'm going to just flow in is what I brought. And that's when you become limited, because all you use is what you brought and no more.

Dr. Robert F. Dowell 18:40

Or what was called. See, it's easily flowing what you brought, because you're just a natural preacher.

Dr. Clinton Cornelius 18:45

That's what.

Dr. Robert F. Dowell 18:45

I'm saying what I mean preacher, don't get into hooping, Don't get into the, but just the motivation, just your words that inspire, just that spirit of a person that can stand up and they encourage. Some people flow in that thing. Naturally, see, Correct. And what happens is, if you don't flow in it, naturally you say, well, I'm not that. And so you despise the teacher. You never get taught the nuances of it. Yeah. Or you just flow in what was called.

Dr. Robert F. Dowell 19:15

You was in a prophetic house, you was in a teaching house. Some people can teach because that's the church. That pastor was a prolific teacher and because they was there. They weren't trying to learn, but that spirit got on them. They're doing outline, they're breaking down a text, they're giving illustration. It was caught, it just it was caught. It wasn't taught. That's so good.

Dr. Robert F. Dowell 19:36

Another thing, Pastor C the reason this is so important is this, Pastor C, the reason this is so important is this because there will be occasions where the ministry assignment or the atmosphere that you're operating in that it'll be most effective, that if you draw on different nuances of that plate, because your assignment sometimes to be most effective, because your assignment sometimes to be most effective, it might need to be more of a preaching dimension, more of a leadership dimension, more of an altar work dimension, and so, based on your assignment or the atmosphere, you need to be able to do that.

Dr. Robert F. Dowell 20:15

But if you don't know how to flow in those different venues now you are limited and you're handicapped For example, venues now you are limited and you're handicapped. For example, it could be a revival If somebody having a revival that's a certain dimension. If somebody having or close out for a conference, you're closing out a conference and you see the conference, you see the people that's doing the conference. You look at the past years and not that you try to be like anybody or do anybody. You got to be yourself but you need to be able to draw out of your bag. That's it. I'm praying, Pastor C, that people that God will be able to put more tools in people's tool bag.

Dr. Clinton Cornelius 20:51

Yeah, that's it right there.

Dr. Robert F. Dowell 20:53

He's in his bag. Now he's in his bag. See, we want to put more stuff in your bag, so now you can switch it so it could be a workshop. Pastor C, if you're in a workshop, then that need to be more maybe of a teaching dimension. Or gathering in somebody's home and they're saying we're putting leaders together or whatever, or empowerment, a prophetic empowerment. So you need to be able to flow and if you didn't get the full plate, you're handicapped. Now you're going like they would say you're going to a gunfight with a knife. You're going to a prophetic encounter and you don't have an alter dimension on you, and so this is why we need to do that, and so I think that's so important in that let's go deeper in this conversation.

Dr. Robert F. Dowell 21:41

We break it down, let's discuss now, pastor C, let's discuss and let's encourage the minister that might be listening or may know, who has been in ministry for a long time and they feel confident in their style, you know, and it's kind of hard for them to embrace growth, you know, and it's kind of hard for them to embrace growth, you know, and to consider new techniques based on the plate of teaching. So what would you do, what would you say, to encourage that person? See, they've been doing this for a while. They're not a new minister and they're confident in what they do. I'm confident in what I do, you know in their style, and how would you encourage them to consider learning some new techniques based on this plate teaching? What would you say with them? Because some people say I'm good? How would you encourage them?

Dr. Robert F. Dowell 22:32

In other words, let me say this it made me think about this topic, this term here Can you teach an old dog new tricks?

Dr. Clinton Cornelius 22:40

Can you teach an old?

Embracing Change for Ministry Growth

Dr. Robert F. Dowell 22:40

dog new tricks, Because sometimes when a person's been floored in this a while, Pastor C, I've noticed that there might be a reluctancy to like. Why do I need to change up now? I've been preaching 15, 20 years. I've been preaching five years.

Dr. Clinton Cornelius 22:54

Can you help us with that? First of all, the plate concept is not about changing what worked for you, but it's about what you just said. It's about expanding your toolkit. It's not about changing what you're doing, but we want to expand what you're doing and now you're able to meet, I feel like, diverse needs in the church because your toolkit you just gave some examples of what your calling, what your assignment, can lead you to. So now you are able to deal, you can be diverse in it Now.

Dr. Clinton Cornelius 23:35

So how I would encourage them something that was shared with me once is that when you look at Michael Jordan, when you look at Kobe even LeBron's now I use these type of players in basketball when they got older, when they got older, they expanded their game. What I mean by that? At one point, me and you know back in me in your era with Michael Jordan, he can drive that basket. He was known for that. He was known for all the dunks, he was known for flying through the air. But as he got older, his shooting game got better. He began to shoot better. So not we're saying we're taking away your drive, where you can drive to the basket, but when he expanded his toolkit by becoming a shooter now, recognizing I'm older. So as I get older, I want to make sure now that also I shop in other areas, if that makes sense to you, and I feel like that's what this do. So when you say, come out of that, says they've been doing it this way forever, but you qualify because as you go longer in ministry now you want to make sure you can expand your toolkit.

Dr. Clinton Cornelius 24:58

At one point Kobe stopped putting his bike to that goal man. He began to do that in his latter years as he was getting older. With it. Now he get down low. You throw that thing down to him. It ended up happening what LeBron LeBron started working on that. What His three-point shoot Got from under that basket. Now that three-point shoot, he's older. So what he was doing, he expanded it. And I say it's the same way with us. Man, that's what got to take place now. The longer you don't be in the ministry now, instead of the attitude becoming I'm OK where I'm at you are. We're not trying. We're not trying to change what's good. We just want to say let's work on something and become even better.

Dr. Robert F. Dowell 25:44

Wonderful. You know what comes to my mind when you say that. I think of the word longevity. See they, they're able to stay in the game longer because they was able to expand and they've been able to diversify. True players, that's not. Then their time is up. They become outdated and antiquated, correct.

Dr. Clinton Cornelius 26:03

Correct. Same with ministers, same with ministers. That's why I'm on a full plate. Now, the other thing with a full plate, with the concept, you got what I end up doing with a full plate, I don't have to just eat the chicken because that ain't all I got on my plate. I can reach over here and get me some vegetables too, because I'm carrying vegetables on my plate. I can reach over here and get me some vegetables too, because I'm carrying vegetables on this plate. But if you just stick with one thing on the plate, that ain't healthy for you, even spiritually, ministry-wise. That's why you need the full plate and be encouraged.

Dr. Clinton Cornelius 26:36

Now, the other thing I would encourage them is not to be afraid of it, not to be afraid of change, not to be afraid to step out and to try something new. And I think part of the problem becomes we're afraid to do it. So I would encourage them. I would encourage hey, take it on, try something new, try something new, be open to something new. And I think, whatever's going on in the season too, man, you, you gifted in a way. And I know, with the ministry here, when I look back over 29 years, this is not the same as it was 29 years ago, not just 10 years ago. I had to make some adjustments, I had to spend my toolkit to keep up with the times and to keep the flow going in the ministry, and now I think it stay more fresh.

Dr. Robert F. Dowell 27:31

And that's why you have longevity, that's why you're still fresh oil and why you're still growing and not dying, Because if you don't grow and go to the next level, there's an expiration date on your ministry. You expire. It's an expiration date and so when you talk about the different vegetables and the different things, what is that? It's like? Now you can put in your tool back in this season. You might shift it. You can operate in the empowering aspect. Now you're training others to do what you did in the empowering aspect. Now you're training others to do what you did. You're workshopping, you're mastermind, you're writing about it, You're doing courses about it, what you've always done. But if you work to alter all your life you did teaching, you've been missions work. Now you're at the point you can't go around the world no more, you can't do what you do physically sometime, or you're in a season with your family. But now you can use technology. Now you lean into the writing. Now you're mentoring, You're coaching. But if you don't have that E, you don't do that because you don't even know how to coach. You don't even know how to mentor. You don't know how to put those things together systematically, where you go from one to one, from one to many. You don't even understand the concept of from one to one, the one the many. Why? Because it never was taught and it never was caught, because your leader didn't have it and you didn't have it innately. That's the thing. And I think about this, Bessie, when you talk about changing, many times we see people like a Billy Graham. Many people feel to me with Billy Graham, Kenneth Hagen, In the latter days of the ministry, when people saw Kenneth Hagen and Billy Graham in the latter days, these guys was teaching. They were teaching moving slow, talking slow and being very effective, especially Hagen. So some folk only know Hagen in the last stages as a teacher, a prophetic teacher. But if you go back in the early, the young day, they was firehouse preachers. Yes, they was preaching Pastor C, but because they was able to have the different bags as life went on and they can't move around, they still had longevity. They was able to make that, that shift, and that's why Hagen as a prophet he talks about how that many prophetic people in his day and age that they had signs and wonders and miracles. He talked about how they fizzled out. They didn't make it because all they did they built their ministry just off their gift. In other words, they were good at their altar part, they could prophesy. They can lay hands, jack coal and different people, man and miracles. I'm talking about miracles. But he talked about they didn't know how to teach. They didn't know how to break the word down. They never learned them to teach and so all they could flow in is the gift and just kind of halfway say some stuff. And that's why their ministry had an expiration date but it didn't last. Why? Because they didn't have a full plate.

Dr. Robert F. Dowell 30:36

And you talk about change. Change is hard, Pastor C, because change is pain. But after the change and pain there's always gain. And that's what I would say to gain.

Dr. Robert F. Dowell 30:47

I think about I imagine now, if I see, if you like pages and you didn't want to change to the cell phone, you're stuck now in the old generation. Think about if you like the. Well, all I do is we just do phone and the answer machine. And we have an answer machine. I have a phone in my house and if you call me it'll get an answer machine. You've limited yourself now because you don't want a cell phone. You stuck at like just call me at my house, I'll get it when I get there. You've limited yourself and so I think about in my own life.

Dr. Robert F. Dowell 31:20

Pastor C, I didn't want to change. I wasn't into texting. When it first came out I remember telling my wife hey, why are you texting people? Just call. I didn't want to text. I had my first phone. I didn't want to upgrade my phone, you know, so I could text. I didn't want to do email.

Dr. Robert F. Dowell 31:39

And what I realized as I made that change, it was pain, having to learn a new concept, having to learn how to do new stuff. But on the other side of that change, which was pain, man, it brought great gain. Pastor C, yes, Now I was able to move in a dimension I could not move before. Now I want to speak, even prophetically, over the ministers that have an ear to hear. But as you embrace this full plate, you're going to be able to, after this pain of change and learning how to flow in different dimensions and learn how to flow even in a greater way. After the pain, you're going to see great gain in your ministry. Eyes have not seen and ears have not heard what God is going to do in you and through you as you level up with a full plate of ministry. It's not going to be by might, nor by power, but it's going to be by God's spirit. He's going to begin to visit with you and as you learn these concepts, because some things are going to be taught, some things are going to be caught now as you're watching people, but then something's going to be activated in you that you've already brought to the table, that's been smothered. You're going to move in some new dimensions and you are like the man that God said earlier. You're going to make a greater impact in the name of Jesus. So an old dog can learn new tricks, Pastor C, if he's willing to. So I'm always open. I'm so glad for those different dimensions.

Dr. Robert F. Dowell 32:59

Pastor C, how has this concept of full plate ministry, how has it impacted your ministry journey? Let's discuss this. I want to know from you how has it impacted your ministry journey, and I don't know if you know, this is a concept that I believe the Lord gave me just the title, the framework. We're calling it a full plate. Did you have a different name for this kind of concept or how did it flow? Kind of, give me your, your experience into this.

Dr. Clinton Cornelius 33:29

My name for the concept was if looking at it was being rear rounded, well rounded, okay, yes, being rear rounded and being able to fit. I wanted to be able to fit in in in in my ministry to fit. I wanted to be able to fit in my ministry to fit.

Dr. Robert F. Dowell 33:48

Now, when people hear that You've always had an intentionality of having a full plate.

Dr. Clinton Cornelius 33:54

Yes, yes, in a sense I did, but it came on later, not in the beginning of the journey. The beginning of the journey, the thing that I was taught, and I was called the two that you separate. When I look at what you got, the concept you have here was pastor, which is leader, the L you got there, and the P, the preaching. Okay, okay, that's what I was taught. And then what I caught was the teaching, because that, I should say, is what I brought was the teaching, because that, what was that? What was naturally in me was to teach and to lead. So what I really caught was the preaching, which I stayed away from, I stayed away from In the last podcast.

Dr. Robert F. Dowell 34:51

I despised preaching. I heard it was emotional. It don't help people. I didn't want anything to do with any aspects of preaching.

Dr. Clinton Cornelius 35:05

I was the same. So I made statements like I'm not, finna, get my suit all sweaty. I'm not, finna, run around you ain't helping nobody getting all sweaty up. So my thing was to drill people With the word To make sure they get it. So I was a chapter, verse by verse, bible teacher. We'll talk about a particular book. We go verse by verse To me. That's what you're supposed to do, and I would do that on a Sunday. What I mean by Sunday? I'll pull out a subject, but still, what we was going to do, we was going to do that text. So you was more teaching, teaching. That was it Teaching. I want no part of the preaching. I didn't get very loud. All I did I talked. I talked and I told them when you leave here, you have something. We don't have to have all this shot. I got to have all that. You have something. We don't have to have all this shot. I ain't trying to deal with your emotions. I'm teaching you. So I feel like I'm teaching you to deal with your emotions.

Dr. Robert F. Dowell 36:10

Was it effective what you was doing?

Dr. Clinton Cornelius 36:13

Yes, it was my church grow by that.

Dr. Robert F. Dowell 36:19

That's how we grow. I see, when I met you, you were sweating. When I met you, your suit was getting wet. When I met you, you were sweating. When I met you, your suit was getting wet. When I met you, you were running around. When I met you, you were talking about. Sometimes you just got to go to bed.

Dr. Clinton Cornelius 36:33

Yeah, yeah, so it shifted, it shifted, I added it.

Dr. Robert F. Dowell 36:38

So tell me why then. Why did you expand your plate If it was effective? Why did you expand your plate if it was effective? Why did you expand and just didn't stay?

Dr. Clinton Cornelius 36:48

there because, once again, remember I said earlier, my fit was what I was doing didn't fit everywhere I was called to. So you realized, when you went into other venues, when I went to other venues and that's when you would see me I was at other venues. And when I went to other venues, then at that place it what I was doing didn't fit they wouldn't help the minister understand what you mean.

Dr. Robert F. Dowell 37:14

It didn't fit because the word of god, someone would say, the word of god should fit everywhere.

Dr. Clinton Cornelius 37:17

The word is the word but it's what you shared earlier. They wasn't calling for a teacher, they was calling for a preacher.

Dr. Robert F. Dowell 37:27

How do you know? What do you mean? They was calling for a preacher. Help the ministers.

Dr. Clinton Cornelius 37:31

Like you brought up revival. Therefore, when I think of revival, it deals with bringing something back to life, reviving something. So people, the concept would be with that is we need somebody that can preach to inspire and see, once they get saved. So did you go in whooping? You went in whooping, I went in preaching, not whooping because it was more of a preach. Teach, because, remember, to teach is what I naturally bring.

Dr. Robert F. Dowell 38:06

So how did you do this? Then you so your concept. You realize that what you did didn't fit everywhere, right. So then you begin to all right, how did you do that and then did? Why did you change within your church then as well? Because I know you. Now you do both in your church. You don't just teach what made you change then, even at home, when you said it was fitting, and you was growing.

Dr. Clinton Cornelius 38:26

Because now as my church growed and not just spiritually growth, but I'm also talking about physically growth so now my audience changed in my church. So with that I noticed then it got on me to do the both to preach, to teach. I preach, I teach. I became open to it because, yes, what the teaching? It was working for us, it truly was. But my audience changed the type of memos that people that began to came in because God gave me the gift where I began to try a different type of people. So that attraction is state it like you brought up earlier to stay in the flow, I became the priest, teach. Now the priest got on me because I end up catching that and the way you use it, catch it is who you listen to.

Dr. Robert F. Dowell 39:21

OK, let's get down. That's what I want to get into. How did you make that change? So now you're sharing with us how you made that change. Okay, you said you caught it. Go ahead and hit this. I caught it because.

Dr. Clinton Cornelius 39:32

I began to listen to others that was doing both. I intentionally, intentionally, I did that. I began to pick up on that, still kept the skills that I had, and I kept sharpening those skills. But then I learned a new concept. I was getting older and yet I wanted to stay with the flow and the mixture of my church. So I started listening to guys that did the same, I started reading behind it, I started studying behind it how do you go about doing this? What's the proper way? What's the difference between the two?

Dr. Robert F. Dowell 40:06

and from that I began to adapt that, I began to flow in that and now that that used to be a struggle became a natural thing for me okay when I say this too, meaning that part of my my thing too what I think with some ministers how they make a mistake, because if they feel like they're just a preacher, then sometimes all they listen to is other preachers. If they're just a teacher, then all they feed on are the teachers. If they're more in the prophetic and altar flow, then they just listen to a lot of prophetic people. If there's leaders, then there's leaders, and so that's what will keep you locked in that dimension, because all you're going to catch is more of the same Right.

Dr. Clinton Cornelius 40:52

And locked in that dimension, because all you're going to catch is more of the same right. And I, I added that to my plate because see you talking about a full plate? I didn't have a full plate. So what I did is I added what I needed to the plate. I had the chicken, but I had to add some vegetables. Then I added some bread, I had to add. I didn't keep going back getting chicken, and I think the concept you just brought up that's what that is. If all I did, I cut my teeth under like a Fred Price man. So if all I did Dennis Copeland yeah, I'll finish safe If all I did was Fred Price, kenneth Copeland, those type, then that means I wouldn't have added anything else. Then all of a sudden I find myself getting into the Jakes, find myself listening to the Jakes, watching the mannerism, how he actually presented, how he broke down scripture. So you watch how they presented.

Dr. Robert F. Dowell 41:42

So did you copy, so were you mimicking. If he shook his head, you mean you shook your head. What do you mean? They present it. So did you copy. So were you mimicking. If he shook his head, you mean you shook your head.

Dr. Clinton Cornelius 41:48

What do?

Dr. Robert F. Dowell 41:48

you mean Help the minister.

Dr. Clinton Cornelius 41:50

Nope, nope. Presentation is everything. I learned how it was times when the audience was clapping, the congregation was clapping, they was all up. I need to be quiet. I don't keep flowing with them, maybe at that time, because they're going to miss what I'm trying to get out, because they all caught up in it. So it's different mannerism that you watch. I learned illustrations, not their illustrations, but the illustrations was effective, even in the preaching. Even in the preaching I watched others. Then I got into old tradition of Baptist preachers. Then I got into old tradition of Baptist preachers.

Dr. Robert F. Dowell 42:24

Well, you mean illustration even in the preaching, because I thought illustration was just limited to teaching. Oh no, even in preaching. Help them with that.

Dr. Clinton Cornelius 42:33

Help the minister. Even in preaching, illustration grabs the attention of the people. I like to illustrate out of the text I want to place you in the text, if I can get you in the text with me and use illustrations from within the text that when you leave you see the woman on her knees grabbing for the hem of his garment. So you now I got that picture. But what's the point? The point is you touched him. You could, you might've couldn't hug him, you might have couldn't hug him, you might have couldn't grab him, but the point is you touched him. So in order to touch him as him, you had to get on your knees. So now there's an illustration where, if I'm on my knees, I'm showing the importance of being on your knees. Now I can deal with a teaching principle you need to pray. Part of the things is you have to.

Dr. Clinton Cornelius 43:23

What else this lady did? She pushed, she pushed. What she did? She pushed, pushed. You pray until something happened, you praise until something happened. She did all of that and then something happened. So I use the illustration In the preaching from the text.

Dr. Robert F. Dowell 43:41

See, and that's the thing when we learn, when we want to help ministers break down fem, which I call it, when you become a student of the game. So you're weaving that in, we're just marismosing, as our bishop would say. We're breaking this thing down, but it's preaching and teaching. So you're preaching in the text and you're using the illustration, you bring them in. But now you're preaching. What do you mean? You're proclaiming you might not touch, you might not, can just grab him, you may not, can just hold him. So you're proclaiming, you're encouraging. Then, at the same time, you're teaching, you're explaining. So it's kind of interwoven. We're just breaking it down like H2O so that way we can understand.

Dr. Clinton Cornelius 44:20

You talk about it.

Dr. Robert F. Dowell 44:28

And that's what makes it effective.

Dr. Clinton Cornelius 44:30

Wow, that's good. So that was your journey with it. Wow, wow, wow, wow. That was my journey. But I do emphasize to something you said. It was very powerful man. That hit me Is that now, as I got older, I've gotten old. As I got older, I've gotten old. I've been here for 29 years here. So, as I have gotten older, now I'm I value more sitting down, doing what I'm doing with you right now, where I feel like I'm leaving something. Wherever the book I just did, I'm leaving something. Now, as I'm getting older, I don't walk through it. Now I'm taking the time to empower others. I call it mentoring. Now taking the time, the ministers and all here peaceful, where I'm mentoring them, I'm mentoring them, I'm showing them this right, this why what you're doing is so important, man, where they can see the full plate. I couldn't be effective to them I help, empower them if I did not have a full plate.

Maximizing Ministry Impact

Dr. Robert F. Dowell 45:27

Wow, wow, what a wonderful conversation we are having. We're going to have to put a pin in it for this episode, but I want to encourage you stay tuned for our next episode. Me and Dr Keneas, we're going to continue this conversation with the full play concept. We pray that you've been blessed. Be sure that you do subscribe. If you haven't subscribed, be sure that you email me if you have any questions concerning this podcast or any other podcast that we may have. This has been Dr Robert F Dowell and I want you to know no matter what you're going through in life, god is destining you for greatness. My prayer that you're going to be able to live better, do better. You're going to be able to release the brilliance that's in you. I pray today that you have eaten well and, as you have eaten well as a minister, now you're going to excel. Be sure you join us for part two of my conversation on the full-plate concept, dr Cornelius.