Pt. 2 Excelling in Ministry with the Full Plate Concept with Dr. Clinton Cornelius

Unlock the secrets to crafting sermons that resonate deeply with your congregation with Dr. Clinton Cornelius as we continue our discussion on the transformative "full plate" concept. Discover how integrating elements like inspiration, motivation, and prophetic activation can elevate your ministry, turning messages into masterpieces. By intentionally switching roles during sermons, ministers can address diverse needs, creating a well-rounded experience that connects on multiple levels.

Embrace the potential for growth beyond innate abilities in this enlightening episode. Drawing intriguing parallels between ministry and athletics, we discuss how expanding your skill set—much like athletes becoming proficient with both hands—can enhance your effectiveness. This isn't about judgment but about using intentional learning as a roadmap for personal and professional development. Highlighting the uniqueness of each minister, we affirm that success lies in leveraging strengths while also broadening capacities.

Transcript

Speaker 1 0:04

Welcome to the Five-Fold Food Podcast hosted by Dr Robert F Dial, where ministers receive the spiritual nourishment they need to succeed. The Word of God declares evangelists and some pastors and teachers for the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ, prepare to receive revelation, wisdom and insights to empower your ministry for victory. Now let's eat.

Dr. Dowell 0:36

Praise the Lord and welcome to the Five-Fold Food Podcast. I'm your host, dr Robert F Dowell. I'm so delighted that you've chosen to be with us for another Five-Fold Food podcast, where our desire is to help the five-fold minister eat well so that they may be able to excel. I want to encourage you, wherever you're listening to this podcast or watching it, that you would like and subscribe, if you like and subscribe to it whenever we put out a new podcast, whether you're on iTunes or Spotify, then you'll get an automatic download for each broadcast. If you're watching it on social media YouTube be sure you subscribe as well. Be sure you share it out with another five-fold minister so that they may be blessed as well. I encourage you to look in our show notes, where you can see some great resources and material that will be able to enhance your fivefold ministry. I believe some of my books and materials will indeed be a blessing with you. I'm excited.

Dr. Dowell 1:36

Today I'm going to continue a conversation that I began in our last time together, a conversation on the full plate concept with Dr Clinton Cornelius, how that we, as ministers, wanted to have a full plate. We wanted to be able to operate and improve in our preaching dimension our leadership dimension, our altar dimension, teaching the ministry, and in our empowering dimension. If you didn't get the first episode, be sure you go back and listen to that first episode, and I want to continue in on the conversation that we began last time. God bless you and we pray that you enjoy.

Dr. Cornelius 2:14

Where they can see the full plate. I couldn't be effective to them. I helped empower them if I did not have a full plate.

Dr. Dowell 2:24

Wow Well, when I think about my journey with a full plate. Wow Well, when I think about my journey with this full plate I didn't always call it and it's been progressive with it it made me more intentional in my preparation and my presentation. I began to preach with intentionality, meaning I prepare. So I begin to intentionally make sure I interject different aspects within my message. Well before, as more of a teacher, all I really was concerned about was the revelation or information I was going to bring. You know, I want to bring them some information, but you know revelation, knowledge, you know. So, as long as I'm bringing the revelation but I wasn't intentional about am I bringing some inspiration, some motivation, some activation from the prophetic, some declaration? You know, some of the Holy Ghost flow, that leadership flow. I wasn't, and so it made me more intentional. And then, as I progress and I begin to try to, you know, find my own voice, when I begin to want to learn to preach and stuff anymore, I began to realize how, what flowed for me and what I flowed out of first, how do I, how do I flow? So it made me more intentional. And then one thing when I learned that I learned because I learned.

Dr. Dowell 3:51

Some messages required me to lean more into the different dimensions, maybe not the whole message, but this point of the message I need to. And I begin to use terms of my own self-facility when I was developing this is like I need to. And in the middle of my message sometime I said, like use terms of my own self-pathy. When I was developing this, and in the middle of my message sometimes I said let me put my intercession hat on. So, right there in the middle of my message, rather than me trying to teach it out, preach it out, I'm going to pray this thing into them, I'm going to pray it for them. And so I began to learn that I can switch hats To get this one over over, to be more effective, don't, you can't preach it, can't teach it, you need to pray. Oh, it need to just be prophesied, it need to be just declared. Don't we decree? And so I begin. And what? It made me more intentional when I began to do it.

Dr. Dowell 4:43

And then, just the last thing, it helped me. I felt I became more effective and impactful, not just on the outside, not by what people said Good word, good word, good word? No, no, no, no, no. Because on the inside. I felt more on the inside that I had I could. I felt more effective when I learned the full plate, because I could begin to evaluate and kind of look at it. Well, sometimes, just to God's honest truth, I would preach a word sometime and not saying no thing to happen out, but a lot of time. Sometimes I didn't feel good after it and then I would talk to my wife and she said, oh, you did good, you did good and it's like, yeah, and I believe I did good. When I learned this concept, though, it helped me I began to be more intentional and no, you'll never be perfect, but I learned the different pieces and every goal was to bring the pieces and if I'm serving the master, then every goal, every sermon could be a masterpiece.

Dr. Cornelius 5:40

Because I learned the different pieces.

Dr. Dowell 5:50

That's what I was just finna say, because you was able to define what is good to you and what's good for you now is to bring all the pieces, the full plate. Yeah, for me it might be different, somebody else. Now, when we're talking about this full plate, the bible says people get distraught for a lack of knowledge. What are some misunderstandings someone might have concerning this full plate concept and what would you say to clarify what we're not saying? So let's talk about, let's discuss, pastor c, what we're not saying. You know. And again, it's saying podcasts. We're discussing. But if I was teaching, I want to show them the teaching method. What? Because you see, so you can see the plate. I want to help the minister. You can see the plate, even the podcast. See, when I shifted into praying and all that, that's the A in the plate and prophesy. I shift it even in the podcast.

Dr. Dowell 6:44

Now, in these questions, what we're dealing with, we're teaching what we're not saying. That's the concept of good, teaching what this is not, what faith is not, what prayer is not, what holiness is not. So teach on it what is not. So just sharing as we go past to see these are teaching concepts. We're just not here gabbing and talking, true, and just having a conversation. No, we are having a conversation, but it's a. This is now we're teaching them. So I want to just help the minister so they can begin to see the breakdown of it. So what are we not saying in in this concept to help them?

Dr. Cornelius 7:21

so they don't misunderstand it I think one thing is that we're not saying that you got to be equally excellent, excellent in all pieces of this of the plate, that I have to equally, because some things like you said, I love that, that you bring, that you brought, that you brought, that's naturally you. So we're not saying that everything on the plate got to naturally be you. You don't have to bring, you don't bring all these. We're not saying that. So, but what? What I feel like that's what we're not saying and that can be a misunderstanding where it caused me to stay away from the plate because I feel like I don't necessarily have the chicken, I don't naturally have it all, so it caused me to pull away.

Expanding Ministry Capacities for Impact

Dr. Cornelius 8:22

So one of the things in sports concept, in recruiting and all, whether it's football, whether it's baseball most of you hear it a lot this term I'm finna use in baseball and recruit is do they have all five tools? They want to make sure do you have all five of these tools when they recruit you? I mean that's the speed. Whatever the five tools are, okay, same with any sport Do they have all of the tools? And I think what can cause you to feel some kind of way is I don't. I want the full plate, but I don't naturally have it. And what I'm hearing? These guys say that if I'm going to really be effective In ministry, if I'm going to really make an Impact, I got to Naturally bring all Five other tools. And that ain't what we're saying. That's a misconception. That's not what we're saying.

Dr. Dowell 9:18

It's not always brought.

Dr. Cornelius 9:21

That's right, but it can be caught. That's what we're saying. It don't already have to be brought, but it can be caught and be open enough where you can catch it. It can be caught and it can be taught, and what you said earlier. What you said earlier is pain, but at the end of the pain is gain. That's what we're saying.

Dr. Dowell 9:47

Like basketball. Naturally, you dribble with your right hand if you're right-handed of your left hand, but you can learn to dribble with your left.

Dr. Cornelius 9:56

Yeah.

Dr. Dowell 9:58

We can learn to. I'm right-handed. I can learn to write with my left hand. Yep, it will be difficult, but it can be done Well what I said earlier.

Dr. Cornelius 10:12

Don what I said earlier you might be a natural right-hand hitter in baseball, but you can be taught to be a switch hitter, yeah.

Dr. Dowell 10:20

And so I like that. Yeah, that's so good, so you're right. And also, what we're not saying. We're not saying you're wrong if you don't flow in all of them. There you go. We're not saying you are wrong if you don't. We're not saying you are inferior if you don't have a full plate. We're not saying another minister or another ministry is inferior. You know meaning that you're not wrong, you're not inferior.

Dr. Dowell 10:46

This we're saying this is not a judgment tool. The full plate is not a tool of judgment that we can size up people and say they operate in a full plate. No, it's not a judgment, it's a rubric. And what a rubric is in school, where a teacher gives you gold and say this is some, these are some landmarks. It gives you a place, what you should do, what you can do, and so what we're saying is so this is. It's not like a judgment and and saying some, uh, that they don't have the full plate, no, but it gives you a tool and a model. And, like you said, we're not saying you have to operate in certain percentage, like you got to be 50. You know, half of it got to be this and this and that. No, no, no, no.

Dr. Dowell 11:29

But my goal is that you learn. This is my goal. I see that ministers learn it and they begin to be intentional. So if you're not flowing in and in the altar the prophetic, it's because of an intentionality or the spirit, are you not? Because you're not open to it to alter the prophetic? It's because of an intentionality or the spirit or not? Because you're not open to it, you never learned how to do it.

Dr. Dowell 11:49

If you don't have teaching in your message, it's not that you don't know how to teach. You don't know the answers of teaching. Is that? I just choose not to. If you're not preaching in your message, it's like, oh, and you can be very effective.

Dr. Dowell 12:04

We know some people who can, who are just, let's say, all their play is just teaching. Very effective, very anointed, impactful, ministry, great. All they do is preach. They could be very effective. All they do is preach. They could be very effective. All they do is prophetic. All they do is great leaders, great leader, great ministry, impactful. This is why sometimes you'll hear preachers and teachers look at a person who they'll say this and this is how preachers they might not, sometimes they'll say that out loud, but they'll certainly say to themselves man, he or she can't preach or teach that way out of a paper bag man, they ain't got no art. But look at all of the organization they got, look at all that they got and you can use man, they can't preach they can't. But you don't probably know. They're probably great leaders, or they might be a great leader. They might be great in that A might be very prophetic or they might be very E, that they're impactful where they empower people through one-on-one, through their coaching. But it's something that they flow in and so we're not saying that it's not.

Dr. Dowell 13:19

But my only caveat with that, pastor C, what we have to realize and I know we use sports a a lot but let's say you have a football player like a cam newton. Some people are highly gifted where, man, they can just do it by power, or like a mike vick, they can just run, or they go like a big b and shake people off. But most of us, see, are not gifted enough. Just to be just good with one side, yeah, but in order for you to be perfect, you got to be able to do what. Because, like Shaq, he couldn't shoot threes, couldn't shoot free throw, but he was so good at the other part it made up.

Dr. Dowell 13:57

Everybody don't have that. So this is why I think it's important for the the norm minister to learn because you have some exceptions past to see that they're very and so I thought that I thought that was good. What are you saying that? Because I didn't want people to have the wrong misconception about what we're trying to say so it won't seem like we're judging people, because, man, I know some people. Man, all they do is teach, and I love it and it impacts my ministry, and they don't preach, and sometimes they'll go to other venues and they just always do what they do, what they do and and it may work for them, but you know, so that's that.

Dr. Dowell 14:36

So we're not. We're not trying to do a judgment thing right.

Dr. Cornelius 14:41

That type is what shaped my life. I have never heard fair price quote, unquote what we would say preach, and and that I became a product of that. So it definitely works. I knew it worked, so you know, and definitely.

Dr. Dowell 14:57

And that's the thing. I'm sorry, I'm going to cut you out.

Dr. Cornelius 15:00

Go ahead.

Dr. Dowell 15:00

I was going to say it worked for him. There you go. Other caveat I want ministers to hear yes, and we're not saying it can't work for him.

Dr. Dowell 15:08

That's why I use Cam Newton, different athletes, because running around and using your speed, it can work. If you're Lamar Jackson, you're Michael Vick, but if you don't have that speed or that gift and you didn't actually bring it to that level, it might not work for you to be your most impactful. And what we're not saying is this is not we're trying to get you to please people, for everybody like you, because everybody not going to like your ministry style, everybody not going to like what you bring to the table, everybody not going to be attracted to your ministry. But this is so that you can say, so you can make the maximum impact and then you can be used at different venues and avenues and then you could be most effective.

Dr. Cornelius 15:48

And I think, also pass it down to emphasize this this does not. We're not saying this replaces reliance on the Holy Spirit, that this don't replace it. You have the plate, but you saying I'm saying in whatever it is, you're walking in.

Dr. Dowell 16:19

Let me ask you this from the pastoral perspective. I know we had a conversation that we won't use names, kind of share. How did this impact you and why did you make this statement to me? Many years ago you had a conference and I won't tell you what kind of conference, but we had a conference and you had different speakers in different breakout groups. I remember you recalling it wasn't in a bad, negative way, we're just friends, it's just real talk.

Dr. Dowell 16:43

I remember you making a statement that one of the persons that spoke in one of the breakout groups that you was kind of disappointed in them because you said they preached during the breakout groups. That you was kind of disappointed in them, uh, because you said they preached during the breakout thing and you really wanted the assignment was kind of you wanted people to kind of teach. It was a breakout group and not that you were mad, but it was kind of like they missed the mark because they they did they kind of preach, kind of help the minister from the pastoral standpoint while you made that statement. Maybe give them some understanding so they can kind of see again why we said it's important to be able to flow in a different aspect. Do you recall that many years ago.

Dr. Dowell 17:25

That's from a pastoral side, because people that heard it they might have said, man, we were blessed, this was good, god was good, but you, as the leader, you saw, saw a different aspect, and I want these preachers to hear this that sometimes you can't go by what the congregants say.

Dr. Dowell 17:40

It's about the person that brought you. Yes, don't just go and say, well, god bless, no, sometimes you can still miss the mark and they can be nice about it. They could give you your honorarium. Don't say it, but now you might not ever have that door again, neither will you might get a referral. I hope I'm helping them, but kind of give the honorarium that you will.

Dr. Cornelius 18:01

That's good If they were grabbed over to that. It really happened and the reason why I made this statement and the reason why it rubbed me that way was because they did not do their assignment.

Dr. Dowell 18:11

So we can help them before we close.

Dr. Cornelius 18:13

Yeah, that, that that. Because they didn't do that that I asked of them. What did you ask To teach? I was looking for teachers. The person was a teacher, is a teacher but also a preacher. So the assignment and the purpose, what I was offering.

Dr. Cornelius 18:29

You felt you've seen their minister so you felt they could do both, didn't you Right? They could do both. I had seen them, had worked with them before that they can do both. So, in other words, to the people, why did you want them to teach? That's what I was trying to share To the people, what I had offered the people at this particular seminar conference. What I had offered them was teaching. That's what I had advertised, that's what I had presented to them. So I offered them ice cream. But when he got there, he gave cake. So that was an influence back on me.

Dr. Cornelius 19:06

I was supposed to be, I was giving them ice cream, the cake. Somebody else was assigned to serve the cake. So what ended up happening to that particular group of people? They got cake, more cake than they did ice cream, Because once they got the other person, they got the cake. So, if I can use it in that way, use that analogy.

Dr. Cornelius 19:32

So they didn't stay on assignment, they didn't stay on the task where they was called there to do. And I think it's important, whatever I'm asked to do is where I stay on that. So when I'm called out me personally, what you're looking for when it's a conference assignment like that, what is it that you're looking for to happen to take place, and so I think that fit this question, fit what I just said too. I'm not saying now you don't rely on the Holy Spirit, but I do say that you can control what you do if you got the full plate. Now, me personally, I wouldn't invite you if I didn't think you had the gift of the teaching or that you could teach. Not necessarily gifted with it, but it was on your plate that you could do it.

Dr. Dowell 20:21

Why do you think they did that out of rebellion? Why do you think?

Dr. Cornelius 20:26

To be honest, if you ain't careful, some of you said earlier, the congregation could inspire you. Instead of you inspiring the congregation, and what I mean by that is you. Now you're being inspired by. The response Our bishop always used to tell us is that I am not trying to get a verdict in a case. So this is saying so I ain't trying to get a verdict, I'm not preaching to or teaching to a jury. So that has to become it. If you're not careful, the response from the people will cause you to go to what you feel like they want, or what they enjoy and what they're liking, and you can't do that because that's like with babes they won't eat. They will not eat If you give them vegetable. You put vegetable and dessert before a child, a child going to take that cake. So you got to be very careful with that, and so I think that's why that occurs Not rebelling, but quote unquote in their mind flowing. I'm flowing with the spirit. Are you really flowing with the spirit? Are you flowing with the people?

Dr. Dowell 21:41

Oh, wow, also, I think that's true. Pastor, that's so good that we can get caught up with what we think the people need. But many times you got to realize if you're on an assignment within your local church or someone, they brought you there for a reason. And this is why I say the training, because when you're trained and skilled, you could do both yes see, sometimes if there's not intentionality, you, they, you saw that they kept flow in preaching and teaching.

Dr. Dowell 22:10

But if they're not aware of it, again the intentionality. So they crafted a message, they crafted it and, not knowing that they could have cracked, crafted a more preaching method message Good, just not knowing. Because if you, you're not, if you're not aware of it. You can crack it.

Speaker 1 22:29

You know, and I found myself.

Dr. Dowell 22:31

Sometime in my journey I crafted preaching messages for us to see, and it didn't go good, because that's not my natural base to come out trying to preach.

Dr. Cornelius 22:45

I think that's the key with something you talked about earlier down that we don't want to be always call it a poke copy of somebody else's original. You're just trying to copy them instead of you being original. You run into that problem sometimes when you do what you just got through sharing. So you got to be very careful that you're not just trying to copy the mannerism, the way somebody is doing it, what you don't heard, somebody that's do it what you don't heard.

Dr. Cornelius 23:11

I can take what you said, what you teach. I can take that and not copy it, but yet I can take that where it fits. What I do Innovation, not imitation. Yeah, you brought that up on your other podcast. That's what I can do. I think ministers need to recognize people need, uh, ministers need to recognize that. That that's cool. You know we're not telling you to be go out and you have to copy it. No, but you can take that and from that I I learned from it and you know it's sometimes I hear you, I I can listen to you and what you're saying and get me a subject from listening to you, but work it a whole different way. Come make it home, make your own milk, as me, you always see your own sauce. I put my own sauce to that. It might have been spaghetti like pasta I had, but my sauce tasted. I had something that's in that sauce there, because you're original, you know your voice.

Dr. Cornelius 24:15

So now, from that and that fit, but I think one of the things that I think need to be emphasized and maybe it's offensive to some ministers that they don't realize maybe I shouldn't do that. I think you ought to ask. I have no problem asking if I'm coming in. As long as I've been doing this, I still like to make sure that when I go into a house, I got a particular assignment that I understand clearly. What's the assignment? So if you call me and you say AC, I want you to deal with some stuff on leadership, teach on leadership, I want to come in there and that's what I want to do not get off into. I have the capability of preaching it, but I don't want to preach it and I don I want to do not get off into. I have the capability of preaching it, but I don't want to preach it and I don't want to prepare it for preaching.

Dr. Dowell 25:00

This is need to be some preparation for teaching and see, that's why the full plate, because what could have happened with that person? They didn't have the intentionality. But somebody said what's the spirit flow? See, when you learn, when those that are skillful at this past to see, they learn how to treat if they need to, if they have the capability they can treat what only the people that really know, all the congregation, know it was good. So that meaning that if they're more preaching, if they know how to teach, they know how to still interweave that. So because if the guests say hey, hey, it's a seminar and so, or is this, or is it close out, you can still teach, but they know how to add preaching dimensions to it. So it is still good for a close out of a conference or for a revival, right, don't mean you got to come in Say yeah, no, they still talk, but because they was taught, they know how to add the preaching flavor in it. There you go.

Dr. Dowell 25:53

If they are more of a preacher and somebody say we want a seminar and they fiery. They still could be fiery and preachy, but they know how to add the teaching flavor in it. Why? Because they've now become skillful of what they do. They can do both. They can dribble with the left hand and the right hand.

Developing Preaching and Teaching Skills

Dr. Dowell 26:10

This is the need for doing that and they can do it. Intentionality and it don't look the same and that way it's still like no, you met the mark, meaning that because you met the mark, because you know how to, and that's why we want to train them as we get ready to close this. You asked the question when we thought about it. We need to hit this about how can someone discern whether they're more of a preacher, of a teacher. You know, in that question, what would you say? How can a person discern if they're more preacher teacher? When we thought about it, you know what question you have for me when we thought about it, so I want you to let me hear what I thought about this the way you can discern more than you, more of a preacher teacher. That's only two aspects, but I think you need to rest. You need to rest R-E-S-T. Rest. You need to get reps what that look like, yeah, in other words, reps. You need to get practice. You need to preach, teach. You need to be speaking the word as often as you can.

Dr. Dowell 27:12

If it's in your local church, if it's to, I used to preach to empty chapel service, empty chapel chairs. As a young preacher, preach in the closet, preach walking out down the street at the chapel, preach in tapes and send it to my mentor to help give me feedback. I would preach, preach, I got reps. And so what happened is you got to get reps to see and once you get the reps, so then that way you'll be able to feel. So you need reps. Then the E you got to evaluate, in other words, assess their style to get feedback and realize. Evaluate as I'm preaching and teaching the word is it more inspiration? Evaluate as I'm preaching and teaching the word Is it more inspiration? Proclamation Is it more instruction? Like the Bible says, examine yourself. So you got to just do what you feel preach, come up with a topic and text as you've been taught.

Dr. Dowell 28:03

But the more you preach, then you're going to be able to see what percentage Are you having 90 preaching, 10 teaching you, more teaching. Then you'll be able to know what helped you. So you need the reps, examination and the S. Then you got to get in your I call it your strength flow. Then you got to know notice what naturally flow out of you, what's your natural strength. You know what seemed to be most impactful, what seemed more authentic to you and then you got to just give it time. You know you got to just. You got to give it time. The more you do it, don't rush it. This I say I'm a preacher, a teacher Just get reps, not just waiting till somebody give you an opportunity. When we came up I'd say we didn't have an opportunity, man to preach to people.

Dr. Dowell 28:51

I preached to empty chapels, to stuff, but I got practice, practice, practice. And the more you do it, then you'll be able to realize what's flowing more out of you more preaching and teaching. And then, once you realize that and you get that, your strength and give it time, now you'll know if I want to focus in more on getting better at my teaching, getting better at my preaching, because you'll be able to know what's your natural flow. Did that make sense to you? It?

Dr. Cornelius 29:20

did.

Dr. Dowell 29:22

I know that's one of the questions people want to know.

Dr. Cornelius 29:26

Yeah, that's good. I can't break it down. Can I ask you a couple? I know we got to go, but make time to hear it. I'm hearing you need to do some self-reflection, yeah.

Dr. Dowell 29:40

Based on your sermon after you preached and talked. But you got to get real. Can't get this preaching every six months at your church.

Dr. Cornelius 29:46

That doesn't do it Okay. And then what I'm hearing is feedback, because you said you sent stuff to your mentor and got feedback. So I hear that also, in that that all of this helps you to recognize which way you, at the difference you know, you can discern whether that you're that preacher, that teacher.

Dr. Dowell 30:12

I like that, or if you can add the, add the prophetic too, because sometimes there's a more prophetic flow in you, you know. I mean that you feel like you're giving the word, or you get more spontaneity, that god is saying somebody listen to this, so you kind of get the feel. But you got to get the reps. Preachers don't get enough reps.

Dr. Cornelius 30:33

You know. So I like you saying that. That's good, but I think you need to keep emphasizing what you're saying. The rep might not be in your church.

Dr. Dowell 30:45

No, Mm-mm, might not Mm-mm, so that'd be question, too many preachers in your church. Or you might have a pastor who do all the preaching. You might not, so that'd be too many preachers in your church. Or you might have a pastor who do all the preaching. You might have a pastor that do all the preaching. You know so. But you got to get reps with the kids, with the youth. But then now, with technology, it ain't about just starting a ministry, but it just you can go online and preach to people. That way at least you got somebody.

Dr. Dowell 31:10

But I preached to chapels to wrote sermon. I would write a sermon every week and preach it and put it in the mail to my mentor and then help evaluate it every week, every week, every week. And the more reps I got, I got more. I found my voice, got you when I. When you find your voice, then you'll kind of know. That's why I said I learned about to see my base, how, what I flow in. Is it more preaching, like for me, something that people hurt me. Oh man, you're preaching teachers like tree. I know, I, I'm a teacher that preaches. Now you preach. It's like I know when I'm crafting my message I'm not trying to get. I don't. I'm not trying to just inspire people, cause that, that that don't my goal is not inspiration. That's why my catchphrase is I'm not trying to hype you, trying to help you. And I ain't saying preaching is hype, but I hope that helped. Oh yeah, that helped greatly, and I ain't saying preaching is hype, but I hope that that helped you see, oh yeah, that helped greatly.

Dr. Dowell 32:11

What would you say if? To help people discover if they're preach a teacher, because I know that's a question of prophetic.

Dr. Cornelius 32:17

You know, and I think you got it, that's the biggest thing you got to get them reps, though yeah, yeah, you like you said the reps, and then that's why I said the two that I brought up I think you do have to do some self-reflection as you get the reps in. I think, as you do self-reflection, you begin to hear, you begin to recognize what you're called in to do, what it is. And then I do think feedback, I think really connecting with someone you trust that can speak into your life and that knows that they can help you with it, I do think that end up helping you as well. And of course, the reps. The reps, you know, you know we don't say we say you know, the more we practice, you know.

Dr. Cornelius 33:02

But I will say I know some people say practice made perfect, but it got to be good practice. So that's why you need feedback, because you can be practicing. But if it's bad practicing, you're not good. You think this is what you ought to be doing. That's why you need feedback. Allow somebody to be speaking to you to let you know You're getting the reps in, but it's bad reps, it's going to be feedback from a ministry coach or someone who knows what they're doing just exactly, someone in the congregation?

Dr. Dowell 33:30

because no you can't. How can you help me evaluate my baking skills, my frying skills, my cooking skills, my grilling skills if you are not a master chef yourself?

Dr. Cornelius 33:41

that's yeah, that and that's that's correct. So you got to make sure the right, you got the right one, giving you your feedback, yeah that's true as we, as we get ready to close this podcast.

Dr. Dowell 33:52

This has been so good and we're going to continue to develop the full play to help ministers. What advice would you help someone who want to grow in, in in their plate? They want to grow in their preaching, the teaching? We can add all the place really in there when we say altar. That's that prophetic flow.

Dr. Cornelius 34:10

Okay, I like that.

Dr. Dowell 34:11

They want to grow in their leader. How can we? How? Just because we'll do more later, but we want to give them something now, just to help them how they begin to grow and develop in different aspects.

Dr. Cornelius 34:21

I do think they need to consistently do what you just said about getting reps in. I think they need to consistently do that. I also would suggest that they draw from the scriptures they spend much time in the word and they're growing that as well as books, preaching and teaching, learn different preaching and teaching techniques and all presentation from others. I think, studying others. You do that. So once again, let me rehearse what I just said. I think consistently getting reps Consistently. I don't think you just put it down once. No, you got to consistently do that. And then, as well as emerging themselves in prayer, of course, in prayer and in the scriptures and from other books, youtube, different places where you study other preachers and all learning different techniques, preparation, you know, as I always tell you, but I deal with preparation and I got different methods, like the peer that we don't talk about on previous podcasts, the peer methods, learning different methods in your presentation P-I-E-R.

Dr. Dowell 35:40

What's the point?

Dr. Cornelius 35:42

Yeah, yeah, what, what? You know what, what, what? What's your point? You know what's the illustration yeah, the indiscret, yeah, yep, and illustration and instruction that you're trying to give out. You know, use that, use those examples and then refer back to your resources. So, yeah, that's what I use in, in, in, in getting over a message I'm preparing. So I do think preparation, you know, that's how you grow in all of this here, that you know those things.

Dr. Dowell 36:11

I just said yeah, and if I put all those together, what I'm hearing? See, you need a model. Yes, you need someone who you can model after yes, exactly each aspect. That's doing what you want to do, not to imitate exactly what.

Dr. Cornelius 36:29

Exactly what we hear all the time me you always use sports examples is that you have other athletes just quarterback that end up saying you know, I've been watching Lamar all my life, so he's not a Lamar, but I've been watching Lamar all my life, you know. So basically he was saying this I learned from you know this kid, you know I my homes, I've been watching him and he lives in my homes. He got somebody. He gonna tell you that he watched that he modeled after that he's seen these kind of things is is how you do it that's it, that that's the M, that model.

Dr. Dowell 37:07

Why? Why? Because most of the time, unless they're mentoring you, most people as I said last week preachers are not going to give you the game, unless it's a one-to-one mentorship because sometimes that's not their calling, that's their assignment or unless you're their one-on-one mentor, so they're not going to give you the game of what they do. But then there'll be a lot of things that can be caught. But that's why you got to be sure you're intentional in who you want to catch stuff from, not just in your affinity area but the full plate. So I say the m, I see a model. Then you said then the other one methods. You got to grow in your methods. I get the m's. You got to grow in your learning different methods, it's correct, teaching methods, sermon methods, different frameworks of studying and putting things together. Well, because you, you got to learn different methods. You know and I've learned different methods and techniques. You know, uh, from you. So it's different methods. And then the other one I would say is I said I call it masterminding, kind of like what you're saying, meaning that talking over with other preachers, talking with other people, getting to groups, for someone you can discuss this with. So you need a mentor that can help you evaluate. But then I want to encourage preachers to talk to other preachers that's coming along with you, that's on this podcast, people that you know that's listening to, or somebody else you let a friend know.

Dr. Dowell 38:28

We have a personal Facebook group. It's fivefold food. So if you email me, if you're not a part of it, you want to be a part of that Facebook group. If you're not a part of it, email me. You can email me at nlfpastor1 at sbcglobalnet or nlfpastor1 at gmailcom and I can send you a personal link. But we have a Facebook group so you can see others that are in the group, beginning to make some friendships, or other preachers and talk, preacher, talk and what happens is many times preachers if you don't know about breaking down film, they don't talk about preaching and teaching.

Dr. Dowell 39:02

They only talk about. This is what God showed me, what God doing in your life, god doing in your life. God's got doing thing. But pastors, people that break down FEMA. We talk hermeneutics. We talk how you come up with that sermon man, how you get this stuff out the text, like man, what do you do? See, you have to be around these conversations. When we discuss techniques, we discuss why you do it, how that helped me, what you did, and then it helped me when you see what I did and it's like, well, I was just doing that, naturally, man, I didn't even know that. So you've got to have some conversations that many times ministers don't have, as you see.

Dr. Cornelius 39:42

Right, you don't have these conversations.

Enhancing Ministry Impact Through Mentorship

Dr. Cornelius 39:44

I was just going to say that you end up saying that you call it breaking down film Me, and you call it because of the sports. And now you do it and you can't. It can't get old To this day now, and you know my son, and how long it been since Jameb and I are playing, but to this day, to this day, man, he have never played a game and we didn't talk after the game when he was in high school. After that game we always talked. When he went off to college, when he got through playing, he would call me. And now he coach, as you know, when he was the head coach, after every game he would call and we're going to talk about that game, different plays. Now he coached my grandson. After every game he called and what we're doing? We're breaking down the field.

Dr. Cornelius 40:37

Now I don't sit in the stands, watch, watch the game. So now he's calling to see how I've seen it from the stand. And now he's telling me what he's seen as a coach. You know this, what that, this, what happened on this play? But you mean, why do y'all do that? We breaking down that film? And then I I learned from him a lot of new terms. I. I seen a play differently. I understood why he called the play and then, at the same time, it's things I teach him from what I see and from when I play ball. That's breaking down the film and you need somebody to do it. That's, on the natural, same with spiritual Me and you do it. That's what we do. So I listen to you, to what you do on Sundays, I listen to other Right and so then what we do, we talk about it. Okay, see how you did it. I like how you. I noticed you did such and such. You know, and from that some of your cast phases.

Dr. Cornelius 41:39

Now you just share why. I never knew why. I know you always made the statement oftentimes. I ain't trying to hype you. That became one of my things at certain points. I'm telling my people I'm not trying to hype you, I really want to help you at this point. I ain't just trying to make you feel good, listen what I'm saying, I want to help you. You just gave me. You said you actually you, because you're that teacher. You you use that even for yourself to say to your people I ain't trying to hype you Not that preaching is hyping but I'm trying to help you. I learned that from you, picked up that from you One of your other methods. You rhyme. Everything, most of your things rhyme, so I can easily pick up on what you finna say Because of the rhyming. Now that work for you. But what the challenge for me when I hear you do that. I'm one with words, I can come up with words, acoustics Exactly, and I can flow in that.

Dr. Dowell 42:42

See, you're breaking down film, like I said too, and that's what we want to teach our ministers. Like I said, I look at what's what we want to teach our ministers. Like I said, I look at you. You always use an acoustic for the word and some things not that you imitate, but you can catch some things. I deal with my own ministers. I watch what they do and I catch things and I tell them. I say I like you do that, that's that A I like the way you did that altar call and I talked with one of my ministers. I talked with one of my men. I talked to Pastor Jacob. I said, pastor Jacob, and God just gave me terms and said that's a creative altar call.

Dr. Dowell 43:16

That's an illustrative altar call. Not just an altar call but, it's an illustrative, demonstrated, see, and so when you have somebody break down film with you some things you're just doing because you brought it and if you don't be taught it then you won't be able to flow with it intentionally all the time. You know you you're doing like the person who's making a meal. You don't have a recipe, so sometimes you do it, sometimes you don't. But when you get taught and you get mentored, now you can be intentional.

Dr. Dowell 43:46

You have a recipe like, like, even with this full plate. You know, operating full plate, that's part of what you do, that pl the plate. But the plate that people thought that it was is not the plate that you thought it would be right and you thought we'd be talking about stress, and no, why see just different nuances? So you don't, you don't pick it, so that way it's. Oh, this is not what I thought. So there's an inquisitive now, and so my point is we learn different things when I look at you and how you're moving in the text, and sometimes it's not that you do everything, but this is what we'll be doing this season in Five-Fold Food, dr Caniz, I've enjoyed this time today. Before we close, any final thoughts.

Dr. Cornelius 44:36

We're not out of discussion, we're just out of time today, any final thought that you want to speak to these ministers. It's in time. It comes in. Time and work and your ultimate goal become I want to make a greater impact, what can I do to make a greater impact? And I think the full plate will help you to make a greater impact.

Unlocking God's Greatness Within You

Dr. Dowell 44:55

Amen, amen, and we gave him a full plate. Maybe you weren't able to listen to this in one setting, but we do pray that you do listen. You have listened to this in its entirety. We know it's going to bless you. This is Dr Robert F Dowd. I want you never to forget, no matter where you are in your life. Right now, god is testing you for greatness. God wants you to live better, do better. He wants you to release the brilliance that's in him, that's in you, and I pray today that you have eaten well and, as a result, if you eat well, you're going to excel in your five-fold ministry. Thank you again, dr Cornelius. We look forward to our next time together.

Dr. Dowell 45:35

Be, sure you share this out with someone. We'll see you on our next time together.