Full Plate Q&A with Dr. Dowell & Pastor Jacobi to Excell in Ministry Pt.1

Discover how to effectively balance a "full plate" in ministry with insights from Dr. Dowell Pastor Jacoby of New Life Fellowship Church. They explore the multifaceted roles ministers undertake, including preaching, leadership, altar work, teaching, and empowerment. Together, they navigate the challenges of identifying your primary calling—whether as a preacher or a teacher—and the importance of gaining practical experience in each dimension. For those struggling to find opportunities to practice these skills, we offer actionable strategies to overcome these barriers and fully realize your ministry potential.

Authenticity in ministry delivery is paramount, and they reflect on how to maintain this amidst external expectations. By balancing teaching and preaching techniques, they encourage staying true to your unique style, bolstered by the content rather than performance. 

Transcript

Speaker 1 0:03

Welcome to the Five-Fold Food Podcast hosted by Dr Robert F Dial, where ministers receive the spiritual nourishment they need to succeed. The Word of God declares and he gave some apostles and some prophets and some evangelists and some pastors and teachers for the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ. Prepare to receive revelation, wisdom and insight to empower your ministry for victory. Now let's eat.

Dr. Dowell 0:36

Well, praise the Lord, welcome to the Five-Fold Food Podcast. I'm your host, dr Robert F Dowd, and I'm so delighted and excited that you are here with us for another podcast. I'm your host, dr Robert F Dowd, and I'm so delighted and excited that you are here with us for another podcast. I want to encourage you, wherever you may be viewing or watching this podcast, whether you're on YouTube, whether you're on social media platform, itunes or Spotify I want to encourage you that you would please like and subscribe. If you're able to share this podcast out, be sure that you share it out as well so that others may be blessed. If you're able to share this podcast out, be sure that you share out as well so that others may be blessed. If you know of any other ministers or five-fold preachers or teachers that would like to grow and learn, be sure that you share this podcast with them as well. And also, if you subscribe on iTunes, on the Spotify, whenever we drop a new episode, you will be one of the first ones to get it. It'll be there in your inbox.

Dr. Dowell 1:30

I'm excited about what we have in store for you today. Our desire is for you to hear the word of God and learn to grow as a minister, so that you can eat well, so that you can excel. I want to encourage you that you look in the show notes. If you look in the show notes, you'll see some materials that I believe that'd be a blessing for you Free ministerial resources that I've put together that I believe will bless you. Just look in the show notes. If you can, you can get those materials. Also, I would like for you to support the podcast as you can. You can give a donation of any amount. You'll find all of that in the show notes. I'm excited about what we have planned for today's podcast. Today I am joined by Pastor Jacoby, our generational pastor, new Life Fellowship Church. Welcome to Five-Fold Food Podcast, pastor Jacoby. How are we doing today?

Pastor Jacobi 2:30

I'm doing fantastic. Thank you for having me. I'm excited and I'm excited to get it moving.

Dr. Dowell 2:37

Amen. I am so glad that you're here. You know, Pastor Jacoby, over the last few weeks we've been dealing with the subject that I've been dealing with the full plate concept. You know that ministers have to have and preach with a full plate, being able to develop in their preaching, being able to develop in their leadership, you know, just being able to develop in their altar work ministry, able to develop in their teaching, then also being able to develop in their empowering aspect. Just looking at that full plate concept, and we've been so blessed by it.

Dr. Dowell 3:10

And I encourage you on the last couple of podcasts that if you had any particular questions that you would write in and let us know any questions that you have, you can always write us and reach me at new life, uh, NLF pastor one at SBC globalnet and also you can reach me at new life pastor one at gmailcom and also you can always find us at fivefoldfoodcom.

Dr. Dowell 3:37

So if you're watching and listening, you want to subscribe and get the podcast, go to fivefoldfoodcom. But, Pastor Jacobi, the way we want to deal with our podcast today, we encourage those to write us and let us know any questions and things that you had as we looked at that full plate concept, and so I'm glad that you're here with us today. We want to kind of have a Q&A. If you would, you can share with me some questions. Q&a, if you would, you can share with me some questions that you have that ministers might want to know about, they want to get some answers to, and so I want you to kind of lead us in that today and so we can try to tackle these questions to help the fivefold minister as it concerns the full plate concept.

Pastor Jacobi 4:25

Yeah, so even in the past conversations that you've been having on your podcast and talking about the full plate concept, I think it's important now to just ask some of those questions that I know other ministers are interested to learn about as well as myself, and so I'm just going to get, just start asking questions so we can have a great conversation. I know in the past podcast you mentioned about you have to kind of discern if you are a preacher or a teacher, or kind of seek discernment. If you're a preacher or a teacher, but can you kind of like hit and you hit a lot of points on that. But what if you're a preacher or a teacher, but can you kind of like hit and you hit a lot of points on that? But what if you are in a house that doesn't allow you?

Pastor Jacobi 5:09

You were talking about getting reps. That's how you kind of discern that getting a lot of reps. But what if you're in a house where you don't get a lot of reps as a preacher or teacher? What are you supposed to do? How do you do? What are some things you can help us out with on?

Dr. Dowell 5:24

that Good. Yeah, I think you're referring to how you, how do we discern how one to know if they're more preacher, the more teacher?

Pastor Jacobi 5:31

Yes, yes.

Dr. Dowell 5:32

Rest concept that you just got to rest in it and how you rest. I talked about, like you said, the are that you have to get some reps, that you've got to put time in the games. Kind of like you've got to shoot the basketball to get better, you've got to put time in the game. It's kind of like you've got to shoot the basketball to get better. You've got to hit the baseball to get better. You've got to cook a cake if you're going to get better, if you're going to get that sweet potato pie ready for the holidays, you've got to practice in doing it. And so I talked about the reps. Then the E was you've got to have evaluation. And then the S was that you have to know your strength flow, kind of get a feel of what you flow at. And then the T is that it really takes time, and I think what you're referring to. If you're in a place where you don't really get reps, you don't have those opportunities to preach. Well, the thing about that is I kind of alluded to it in that podcast, but, pastor Jacoby, I said when I started off preaching I would preach to when I was in the military, I would preach to an empty chapel, I mean literally no one would be there. I would go in the chapel and really preach a sermon, not like play, play, preach, where you just say something for four or five minutes. No, I would literally preach a 30-minute message and talk to the pews and act like people was there, say amen, you know, like you know, I would really actually uh, preach as those people. Was there not stopping. You know, I would do that. I remember preaching to cassette tapes. I had a mentor and I would do a message every week and send to get feedback from, and so I would preach a message, put it in the mail and then later get feedback. I would walk and preach. So my point is you don't have to just be in someone's pulpit to preach, you can preach in your shower, you can preach at home, in your car, in your car. But then, the main thing now, with social media, jacob, you can really get live reps too. Now, well, back in the day I was getting practice, but it was no physical person, you know, I was just in the chapel, but I was getting the reps and getting better, getting feedback. Now you can on your social media platforms. You know, you want to be mindful that it's not about necessarily you having your ministry. You want to be sure you talk with, you know your pastor, depending on protocol and how different things do, but if you have a message and you have a word, you can teach on your social media platforms, on your stories on Instagram, and what that does. If you take it seriously, jacoby, it's really live, that you're going to really put your all into it, that you don't want to be on social media looking crazy and so you really want to prepare so you don't have to be in the pulpit.

Dr. Dowell 8:20

I just think we need to just preach as often as we can teach as often as we can. Many times, what we allude to, pastor Jacoby, we want to be on center stage. Sometimes. What ministers have that mindset? It's like I want center stage, mike, sunday morning, mike, because there's many opportunities in most churches, jacoby, there's plenty of opportunities to teach and preach to the youth.

Dr. Dowell 8:48

They're normally looking for people, but there's opportunities to preach and teach to the youth. There's opportunities to preach and teach to the children and you know many people that you look at today, pastor Jacoby. You'll look in their background. A lot of pastors today. They started in children's ministry. They started with youth ministry.

Dr. Dowell 9:09

And it's not like these are stepping stones.

Dr. Dowell 9:12

No, these are not stepping stones. This is where you learn to master your craft. This is how you learn, really the word of God, because kids going to ask you questions and so they're going to be asking, and so all of that is part of your development, where you have to learn a level of creativity to keep the children's attention. You learn a level of of not only creativity but to be practical Cause. When you're dealing with youth and teenagers, they want you to keep it 100. You know they're not religious, they're just not just there, so they want something that's going to meet them right where they are.

Dr. Dowell 9:50

And so when you learn to do that, now you're learning to use the word that you've known, the understanding from the word, but now working with you, it forces you, jacob, if you're going to be effective, to learn how to put it in practical ways, to learn how to put it in practical ways, to learn how to put it in applicable ways. And so I think, jacobi, we'll miss. Many ministers are missing golden opportunities to get the reps that they need by failing to work in youth ministry, failing to work in children's ministry, and all they want is the frontline microphone. On a Sunday morning and most of the time in most churches, you're not going to get that, and so and that's why we lack, because without those reps, dr Kobe, without driving, you're never going to become a better driver unless you have time on the road driving. Hope that kind of helps with that.

Pastor Jacobi 10:40

No, no, no, no. I think that that speaks. That speaks volume, I think, with the reps aspects, because a lot of people that may be their excuse, but not knowing, like you said, I mean when I started preaching I was preaching a lot to myself in the car, when I was driving from Durant back to Oklahoma or, you know, driving here during that or when I was walking my dog, I did a lot of mental sermons and preach to myself. That helped develop me as a speaker, or even spoke to myself to help develop me as a speaker.

Pastor Jacobi 11:14

And a lot of times people don't realize those are as much crucial reps. I mean we look at you know we got to. You know football, for example. We go to the football games and I know there's a football game this upcoming Saturday. It's an important game. But we may go to a football game but there's practice before the game. So you have to practice and you have to get those reps or things are not going to come out the way you're supposed to come out and we've always seen people or we've seen teams say, ah, they weren't prepared or they didn't practice, and so in those aspects, that's why it's important to really focus on your reps, but then also take your reps seriously in every phase of the reps, regardless if you have the mic or not.

Dr. Dowell 11:59

Yeah, and you're right, and the key point is to take it seriously. So, when you're working with children, prepare that lesson, prepare it. When you're working with youth, prepare, and when you're doing that, you're going to learn to master your craft. Jacob, you're going to become more comfortable with your preaching, teaching and speaking voice. Yeah, if you really do that and so that's an opportunity I want to challenge the ministers get involved in your local church and working with the youth. Get involved with your local church and working with the children and get those times of actually teaching not babysitting them, but really prepare and what it enforces to use different muscles with working with them.

Pastor Jacobi 12:42

That's good, that's good. Now that takes me to, you know, even when we talked about teaching in general, how can I be an effective teacher without you know being boring? And can you kind of you know, do you remember any time that you came to, you know, a teaching environment? You came to teach, but it was an environment built on preaching or a close out speaker, or you were like the main, you know the main person at the end, and what's the? How do you have, kind of you know, navigate that?

Effective Teaching Without Being Boring

Dr. Dowell 13:16

okay, let's look at in two parts, I think the question you said how do we be, how do I be an effective teacher without being boring? There you go, so, how to be. So the question is how to be an effective teacher without, uh, being boring. Well, I want to share, uh, um. When we get this question, jacoby, and you share it with me, I want to, um, I want to share some principles that I believe that'll be applicable. Whether you uh a a teacher or uh or a preacher. I want to give some things that dealing with uh without being boring.

Dr. Dowell 13:55

Now, one thing as a teacher, what you want to understand is if you're not going to be boring, is you want to? You want to be sure that you speak with confidence. So, if you're going to be an effective teacher, first of all, without being boring because I kind of get it, what we might think of teacher may come over as not as exciting. We think of classroom, we think of school. So you want to be sure that you speak with confidence, and that comes to really really having a command and knowing what you're saying is true, that you really believe in what you're saying. When a person speak with confidence, they're speaking as though I know what I'm talking about.

Dr. Dowell 14:34

You know, you had someone give you some instructions or you asked someone that said something to you, pastor Kobe. You asked them for information or direction or something, and when they gave it to you, they said it in such a way you know that they knew. And then you and you did it and it was like I didn't know what they were talking about. They said it was such confidence you thought it was true. Why? Because they believed it. You know, it might have been false information, but they believed it and so, as a teacher, you have to be confident.

Dr. Dowell 15:09

There's a story, if I recall it correctly, pastor Kobe, where this preacher was talking to his brother-in-law who was a lawyer, and this preacher was asking his brother-in-law you know like, you know, why am I not really effective? You know, I don't really seem like I'm effective at what I do in the church. It seems like you're a good, effective, you know lawyer and all that. And his brother-in-law told him he said because what happens is, you know, you tell the truth, you know like it's a lie and I tell lies like they're truth.

Dr. Dowell 15:51

So it's like it's all in your present day you have no confidence. You're telling truth, but you're shaky in it. So you got to have confidence. And another thing I thought about when you shared this question with me, pastor Kobe, that we wanted to address not only need to have confidence, you need to speak with authority. Yeah, you're going to be teaching. You got to speak with confidence. You got to speak with authority.

Dr. Dowell 16:13

See, the confidence deals in that you're confident and you know what you're talking about. Your authority comes when you're confident knowing who you're talking about. I'm talking about the man that walked the shores from Galilee. The confidence in teaching that you're confident and you believe what you're saying is true. But when you speak with authority, you know the one you're talking about is going to bring the thing to pass that you're saying. In other words, authority, there's some weight behind it. It's like there's a weight on it when somebody's's there's a weight on when somebody they speaking with authority, meaning that somebody's backing me up. You know, somebody said they're talking a whole bunch of smack like why?

Pastor Jacobi 16:51

because they know who got my back like you know, I know something you don't know. Yeah, I got something. I know somebody I know somebody.

Dr. Dowell 17:03

And so when you speak with authority, you, you got complimented. Who you're talking about, that they're going to bring in the past and you know what you're teaching. It worked for you. See, this is how you teach with authority. You know it worked for you. You know it worked for others. You know it worked. That's where reps come in Jacoby, because there's a different level when somebody man they not that. When you hear this, I'm not telling you what I heard, I'm not telling you what I read, I lived it and that take reps, that take experience, that take time in the game.

Dr. Dowell 17:35

And so when you're working with youth back to that when you're working with teenagers, and you've seen what you're preaching, you've seen that message of peace that pass all understanding, casting your care. But you were dealing with kids. You were dealing with teenage problems and acne and being picked on. You know what I mean and development. But you had to learn. See, this is where it comes to go. Now you're learning to apply the word to people on their level and because you learn how to do it with the youth and the teenage level, now it's a transition on adult level. Many never got it on that level, Jacoby, and so what they're doing is they're preaching the word to adults, but they don't know how to apply it on their level. It is the Bible, but they never learned it because they missed the basis working with youth, working with children.

Dr. Dowell 18:29

That brings me to my next seat, Jacoby, because I thought about it. I had to speak with confidence, had to speak with authority, but then you got to speak with clarity. If you're going to not be a boring teacher, in other words, that you, you have to have a command of what you're saying you get. It has to be clear in your mind. See, what the art of teaching is is getting revelation, insight, a concept, something that I know, that I got it in me so clear that I speak it to you, that you can see it, that you can get it, that the light bulb goes on. I'm taking something that is complex, that can be confusing, that got ambiguity to it, but I'm going to tell you how to do fractions. That's the art of a teacher. I'm going to teach you lower denominator. I'm going to learn you how to do common denominator. So that's the art of it, Jacoby, and that takes reps, and so you got to be. It has to be clear in you. It has to be practical, has to be relevant, Can't be too complex. That is over the people's head, and so that's when you become boring. And you're preaching to, you're teaching to your peers. Pastors have a big problem with that. They're preaching to the other pastor friends or the apostle friends and the prophet friend. That's going to hear the message, but everybody in the congregation ain't in that and the stuff is going over the head because it's not clear. And so you want to be sure that you bring a message that's practical and relevant, that's not complex. That's what makes us interesting. And then, the final thing you want to be sure that your teaching has passion, that your teaching has excitement. Now, your excitement might not look like my excitement, Pastor Jacoby, but there has to be an excitement.

Dr. Dowell 20:19

I've seen teachers, Pastor Jacoby, men walk around. There's one lady man. She walk around and she have her notes, like on an old school paper and just kind of reading off the paper, you know. But she's walking man, she's walking with authority. Jacoby, I'm serious though. She's walking, she's walking with authority. And when she's reading up and she's speaking, she's not speaking fast, but there's a weight to it. Why it's clear in her there's a confidence. She believes in it and with that authority there's an confidence she believes in it and with that authority there's an anoint. Why? Because she's passionate. There's a. There's a passion, Jacoby. There's a, there's a passion that that good teachers have, and good teachers they're excited about it.

Dr. Dowell 21:10

Have you seen the lady the English teacher on the YouTube? Or not? Yet? Youtube and TikTok. She teaches these lessons about English, like when to use apostrophes, when to use different things, and what she's done for even me as an adult. She makes it fun because she's. She literally is. She records a classroom, she's on a board and she's teaching the teacher. But, Jacoby is clear, it's practical teachings that we like. Oh, we need to know that word, we need to know when to use whom or whomever. So it's relevant, it's authority and she's passionate about it. Jacoby, she's not yelling, she's not screaming, she's not screaming, she's teaching.

Pastor Jacobi 21:59

Are you familiar with her? Yes, I've seen some videos of her before. I don't know her name exactly.

Dr. Dowell 22:05

As you can see, I'm going to let you go on to the next question, but you can see I get passionate and see I'm excited about teaching and so when you come to the pulpit as a teacher, whether you're teaching about, you have to have that same thing not to come off as being boring. I hope that helps. Pastor.

Pastor Jacobi 22:28

No, no, no. I think that was good because I think understanding you know, you can come into two different doorways where you may come into an environment where there's more preachers and not a lot of teachers, or you may go in an environment where there's a lot of teachers and not a lot of preachers, and so understanding that is important, because they are different techniques, but understanding two are different styles, but understanding that both can be effective, regardless if you're preaching, regardless if you're teaching, regardless if you're holding your ear, or regardless if you're walking, you're talking slow, like you said, as long as you are effective and you're confident in what you are saying and you're speaking with authority, then a lot of times and I've seen a lot of great teachers, like some teachers, I've seen that they use jokes or they, you know, they kind of, they kind of win the crowd over with their, with their charisma and their acts, you know, with their, with their personality, aspects of, with the teaching itself. So they're talking biblically, but then they're also bringing it more practical in, and so there's different styles that can be learned from it. But the most important thing is you know you have to be able to be, like you said, confident and you got to walk with authority. When you do it, you can't be coming off thinking that you're going to be timid with it Like that's not it, you know.

Pastor Jacobi 23:52

So. I think that's just it's important. Like that's not ain't it, you know. So I think that's just it's important. I know a lot of ministers that you know that may come into the vein that feel like they are teachers. You know understanding. How do you continue to keep getting that hand more stronger?

Dr. Dowell 24:11

You got to learn more in-depth techniques within that aspect. And that's our endeavor we want to do in this season of Five-Fold Food to give some of those tips and how to even be an effective in it. And you're right, and that's why, like you said, jacoby, I want to hit this too. You said well, I teach it because teaching can come off, as you know, like you said, being boring because we think of teaching, we think of school. But that's what the confidence, the clarity, the authority, confidence, the clarity, the authority. You don't have to yell, jacoby, to speak with authority. You don't have to speak fast to speak with passion, authority and confidence. You don't have to raise your voice, but it's how you use your voice, how you share the word, how you paint, and so there's a way, you, but you have to know that as a teacher, because what happens to with me coming up as a teacher, what teaches, where I can come off as boring is because you're so. You teachers are excited about the knowledge Me as being a natural for my teacher. My natural base is that of a teacher. You know, when I first started ministry, I would say pastor, teacher. That's what my business card said over 30 years ago. It said, pastor teacher, that's what it said, pastor teacher, and I embraced that and I still embrace that. And so what teachers are? We're excited about the knowledge, about the information, but as you was getting to it, jacob, and we'll get into it in another podcast, it's not just the information and revelation, it's presentation. So, so, teacher, many times don't get into the presentation, we just like it's this information.

Dr. Dowell 26:00

I remember this, jacoby, being in college, that I think a story that kind of hits this, how I fell into that. I remember taking a speech class. I was taking speech in college and I remember giving my speech and I gave the speech on the why we wear the ring on this finger. Because I researched and I taught About how the ring was worn, Because many people thought that there was a vein that flowed from the heart, the left side, to the hand, and that's why they Wore the ring on the finger and I talked about the symbolism and all that, man and, and you know, you, I don't know if y'all, y'all never knew that that's why they thought. They thought it was a vein that was on the left side from the heart and I gave all the symbolism of the ring. Man, I gave that speech.

Dr. Dowell 26:49

I was like whoa, you know, man, it was got in front of the the classroom and spoke it, and I remember my teacher, I think I got like a, an, an, a, b or something a, 88, 85, a, b and I was like you know, like it's like I, I killed it. I killed it, jacoby. I mean I wasn't stumbling. You know what my teacher said. I mean I wasn't stumbling. You know what my teacher said? She said I sounded like an encyclopedia. See, I was all about the information, jacoby, I was excited about it, but internally, so what that taught me was she said like you sounded like an en encyclopedia.

Dr. Dowell 27:40

And you know what I did for my next speech? I did as I was announcing. I was like a reporter given like a, a, not a reporter, but like you know, when you come on the news after a game and they're giving the highlights and they're saying the different scores, yeah, I did it like that, like hey, we know, such and such played and you know, and, and, and he had this many passes and and he went for a fourth and three. I, I did it that way, so and I got into it. I had more emotion into it, I had more passion into it, I had more, I had more authority to it, and so I remembered that lesson, jac, that it's not just about the information and the revelation, it's the presentation.

Dr. Dowell 28:20

And though I was excited internally about the ring, but I didn't pull straight at Jacoby, there was no real passion, you know, outwardly, it was inwardly, but the teacher said you came up like an encyclopedia. It was inwardly, but the teacher said you came off like an encyclopedia. And so we, as teachers, you've got to be sure that not only are we excited inwardly, but we have to, in different ways, be able to express that outwardly, lest we come off as boring. Now I want to hit this, pastor Scobie. I want to hit it from the, as you mentioned, the question comes that the person want to know without being born as a teacher. I want to hit the flip side of that too, though. You want to be sure, just as teaching can come off as boring, ministers and of the gospel have to understand that preaching on the other side can come off as being shallow shallow, yeah, that's it emotional or just entertainment, just as the teaching can come off boring, like who put me to sleep?

Dr. Dowell 29:24

oh gee, you know what I mean. Like, not that it wasn't good, not that it wasn't good food, not that the meal wasn't healthy, it just wasn't enjoyable.

Pastor Jacobi 29:37

It wasn't seasoned. It was not seasoned. It was good food. I just had to put some extra salt and pepper on it.

Dr. Dowell 29:46

That's how teaching can come over If it's not careful. But on the same token, we have to understand preaching can come over as being shallow.

Pastor Jacobi 29:56

Yes, it can be like a snack.

Dr. Dowell 29:59

it can be like a snack, it can be like a snack.

Pastor Jacobi 30:01

Not even snack it can come out. It's like nachos, yeah, like you eat something but you're not full. You know, I'm saying like you can't walk away with it and say what did he say?

Dr. Dowell 30:10

yeah, and now I'm just not full, but I want to show you the total contrast. Not just full, pastor kobe, but it it's like you've been working all day and you come and they give you some nachos and some salsa, yeah, or some popcorn or some cotton candy. No, I'm serious, though. Or you come to eat and it's like, oh, and they bring you, you know, some snicker bites. You know they're like little mini bites. And you're like little mini bites and you're like, okay, and then it's like they bring you some juice and some coke. It's like, hey, and then they bring you back some nachos. You're like what it means, I mean seriously like wedding veggies. That's how preaching can come over too. It could come over as shallow, no substance, emotional, just a bunch of rah-rah, bunch of just the entertainment. So let me tell you how to be sure that teaching don't come. Preaching don't come over that way. These some tips for that too.

Dr. Dowell 31:06

When I had this question, I thought I need to address that you want to be sure if you're more dominant, if you're a preacher, you lend more to preaching. You want to be sure that you always have a bible text. Yes, I mean, you got to make sure you have a bible text and then that you're able to some degree to to make reference and talk and teach about the text, the historical background, who it was written to, why did they write it? Uh, the key passage from the verse. So so you got to make sure you got a text. Then you want to make sure you have a Bible topic, bible text, bible topic Because preaching, because it has the flair. You just got a topic that's fleshy. You know what I mean. We talk about March Madness because it's basketball season. You know what I mean. Can you hear me now when it first came about the cell phone? So your message nothing wrong with all of that, but you know.

Dr. Dowell 32:04

But you got to make sure you have a Bible text and then some kind of Bible topic. Right, even if this is your subtopic, you got to make sure that in some kind of way that people know what we're talking about is biblical and you want to get Bible truths, bible texts, biblical topic, whether you know whether you might say, can you hear me now? But your whole thing is about my Bible topic is how to hear from God. You know what I mean. Want to get away. That's the topic. Your main thing is. You know what I mean. Want to get away, that's your topic. Your main thing is, you know, making sound choices. You know what I mean. So then you want Bible text, bible topic, bible truths, that you give instruction and information, that you want Bible. I know you're preaching and I know you're bringing the flair and I know you're. You know you're your preacher and we need preachers.

Dr. Dowell 32:55

Man, preachers reach people's heart. Pastor Covey, I don't want to get in that, but a preacher goes past your head and reaches your heart. A preacher causes someone to shout out what must I do to be saved? A preacher makes you make a decision, choose you this day, not only who you're going to serve, but are you going to give, how you're going to live the decisions that you make that I'm going to pray.

Dr. Dowell 33:22

A preacher moves people to action, jacoby. A preacher makes you take action. A teacher gets you motivated. A preacher breathes lives into dead bones. Man, we bring back the preacher. Man, the preacher convicts your heart. You know what I mean. A preacher makes you look at the man in the mirror. We need preach. Oh, I love the preacher, that's what the preacher do, but you got to make sure you give them some information and instruction. Yes, we can inspire people to do stuff that they don't know how to do. That's what the preacher do. But you got to make sure you give them some information and instruction. Yes, we can inspire people to do stuff that they don't know how to do.

Pastor Jacobi 33:56

That's true, and we never give it, never given the instruction to do it.

Dr. Dowell 34:02

So you told him to do it, how to swim there you go. So you want to give them instructions. And then also you want to have a clear goal, a Bible transformation that you have in your sermon, what the transformation was to change. So those are some things, jacoby, that I think we said. A preacher don't be teaching, don't be boring, that the teacher don probably not shallow, but just like the teacher is not cognizant to bring their joy, their excitement and their passion on the outside, then they can seem boring on the outside Because it was internal, they was excited and they had passion. Same thing with the preacher. He knew how to apply this to the life. They knew the topic, they know the life, they knew the topic, they know the word, but they got so caught up in all the other stuff that they didn't share. Forth that, jacoby, to bring the balance. Because if not, preacher can seem like your message just can't be full of cliches. Turn to your neighbors and looking for a response and a shout. Then that's when you seem like that.

Pastor Jacobi 35:11

And nothing wrong with turn to your neighbor, high five somebody. But again, like you said, it has to be and our next question is going to highlight that why it's important, but it has to be as a preacher, you have to have some of those solid foods that are in there, are scripture based, uh, biblical, you know, top something in that aspect. So it can, it can, it can hold some weight and it can be some meat with those nachos that those nachos don't just have, you know cheese and chili, but you got some not that you don't know it, but it's all in presentation in both.

Dr. Dowell 35:50

you mentioned another part part, jacob, I kind of got caught up in that. The second part you mentioned something about a closeout. Say that part again.

Balancing Teaching and Preaching Elements

Pastor Jacobi 35:57

Oh, no, one of the questions about just being a teacher. Can you just remember a time you came to teach but the environment was built for a closeout preacher? I mean they wanted to, ah, and how did you navigate that? And I think that you didn't answer this. But I think that you also alluded towards being confident in what you do and how you kind of walk in. Your teaching style will kind of be hand-in-hand in that situation. But just talk about that in general. And that may just been they thought, hey, they want a Robert Dow, they want a Dr Dow here, but then realize Robert Dow is a teacher, okay, robert Dow is a preacher, like so, especially in your beginning points, if that ever happened, especially in your beginning points.

Dr. Dowell 36:52

If that ever happened. No, I can't really, because I really wasn't. In my beginning times I really at first I really wasn't even really cognizant a lot, jacoby, a lot of. I knew. I was a teacher and so I was cognizant of that. But I don't remember being brought in in spots where they had it planned for that. But even if I, if I did, because I always was just confident and just I'm, just, I'm, I'm going to be me, so I really never felt it. So what I would say is so I probably have been, but probably not. I probably always had some hybrid in me, what was just not aware or whatever. But this is the thing I'll say is this If, if that happens is what you need to do is don't feel the pressure to perform. Let's say you're a teacher and you go into a place and you feel the environment that they're pushing for preaching. I can say that in one regard.

Dr. Dowell 37:52

Remember, I said one podcast when I first started in ministry. I really just started ministering. I wasn't pastoring and I was, I was, I was up to preach in my home church and yeah, you know, and they set the environment for preaching. You know, they was they, they was, they were banging on the keyboard. They introduced me, you know, know, in a way, like you know, get ready, you know they got. They got everything revved up and what I did, I kind of like calmed it down and I, you know, I like praise the lord. I calmed it down so I can get in my word, you know. So my thing is never feel pressure to perform or to be something that you are not. Never feel that pressure, no matter what. Don't feel that pressure Because, remember, the power and the anointing is not in the style but in the word. The power and the anointing is in the word, not the style, whether preaching style, teaching style, because what gets results is the anointing. Because if you get results, whether you preach or teach, you know whether people was expecting.

Dr. Dowell 38:56

Jacoby said man, you needed 200 and you needed it. And they said they're gonna get to you. And then, when they come and and they got, they got a, they got, you know, a hundred dollars. You're like you, we wasn't expecting that, jacoby, but, but they brought it in coins. But you still like, thank you, I wasn't. You know, let me come and make a couple trips. Put in my car, you know, but you're still thankful you gave me the money. You said it didn't come in the way that I wanted, but I'm thankful. If they gave you a cashier's check, jacoby, and you're like, huh, I got to go to the bank, but it got your name on it, you can take it to any bank, you're still thankful, Jacoby, even though you realize like, whew, I didn't know, I had to make another trip.

Dr. Dowell 39:40

My point is, though you didn't get what you expected, though it didn't come the way that you wanted, but it still met your need and it got you the results that you need, so you're okay. So, if you realize that, whether it's that they set the environment, you bring the anointing and the word, then you then, with that anointing and the word, people might not get what they expected, but they'll get their need. They'll say things like that really wasn't what I expected, but we got what we need, so never feel the pressure to not be someone you have. Then the next thing is this what I didn't learn then in my earlier days that you can be mindful, though, though you're a teacher is that you can exalt here. It is on the front end. So what? What meaning that? Maybe you might not be a preacher and preachers, just not grabbing your ear and preachers not that you just grab your ear and do those things of that nature, but it just being in that flavor. We'll break it all down later.

Dr. Dowell 40:39

You can exalt, encourage or just lead the people in praise and magnify the Lord before your message. What do you mean there? Like that lady, like I said, she teaches. I've seen some people walk with their iPads. What they can do is, on the front end, just still before you get into your message, exalt, encourage. You say I don't know how to do that. Well, we'll teach some things and those are some skills you need to learn how to be an exalter, how to encourage.

Dr. Dowell 41:09

See, you can do that outside of your messaging, kind of like what you see emcees, do Somebody that's emceeing a thing. They're exalting, they're encouraging, that's what they're doing. But then also you can just magnify and praise the Lord. What do you mean? What you see a praise leader do? Come on, clap your hands. All you people, let's give God praise, father. We love you, father, we praise you. You. Come on, we magnify you. If I had 10 000 tons, oh, magnify. Come on, let's give him clap your hand. Come on, let's give him glory he's worthy. Come on word, come on, tell him you you all we're doing is praising the lord.

Dr. Dowell 41:45

So if you're a praiser, if you're a worshiper, not just do on the platform before you get into your teaching. You can do that before you get into your teaching. You can do that before you get in. Come on, oh God, we pray in your style, with your passion. Hallelujah, glory, holly. Come on, I mean with your, with your passion, and best before you get into it, jacoby.

Dr. Dowell 42:06

So what you've done is you can still stay true to you if it's that hype environment. So, rather than me, like if I was now toning it down, I can flow with it, jacoby, for a little bit on the front end, before I get into it Exalt, encourage, let's magnify and praise the Lord. So I'm still true to me Now I can get into my teaching, but I still want to do that. And then the other thing, jacoby, on the back end. You can do this On the back end.

Dr. Dowell 42:39

That's when you want to be sure, after you finish your message, that you hit that A in the altar, that you are cognizant of the prayer, the prophesying, the laying on of hands. See, that's how you close it, meaning that I taught my message. But now I'm going to work the altar by calling people, administering the people or not, even if you don't call them, by going through the congregation and calling out Say well, I'm not, I'm the prophet, but praying out, just letting that flow, see, jacoby, or doing it to everybody. So now, even though you are a teacher, you got the front end with the elements of preaching and teaching. Then you got the back end with those same dynamic elements, jacoby, and so now people normally remember what the last things, how they felt when they ended. And so now it still ends and you don't have to preach, you don't have to say ass, you don't have to whoop, say you don't have to do all that. But you were still true to you, but they still left with a dynamo. So I hope that kind of helped you go.

Dr. Dowell 43:50

But if you learn, you learn how to master the front end of exalting and encouraging and you learn how to do your altar part, then now you can flow, that you can intentionally, if they give you time, work the altar, or be sure you give that time within your allotted time, rather than just do your teaching. In that we're going to take these last, my last 10 minutes and I'm just going to flow by the Holy Ghost. Now, tell them, now you get in that Holy Ghost flow. It may be people thought preaching, but they still got what they wanted. Back to my analogy, jacoby. I gave you $50, $200 in quarters. You didn't get what you expected, jacoby, but you're still okay with what you got. Yes, hope that helps. How does that come over?

Pastor Jacobi 44:36

to you? No, no, it's never had these conversations. It sounds good. You know, when I, when I teach uh, when I teach uh football and I teach backpedal, and I tell kids to stay in their frame. I think that that's what you just alluded towards how to stay in your frame even if the house is pulling for certain things that you may not be, not necessarily say that you're not necessarily complimented. It's something that you don't use all the time, but you have to be cognizant of where you're at, and so it's important to understand if you have a more of a charismatic type of atmosphere and you are coming in and say you're a teacher and you know you're going to have some solid message and you know you're going to have some solid food and you're going to eat on it. Like you said, you have to be willing to get something in the front and get something in the back end that can cover that cover that.

Dr. Dowell 45:32

Um, if you're going into it, let me interject this. That's why we need to learn those skills to cope. Yes, how to be able to do that's that a the altar on the other end, but then on that front that's the. That's almost like it's kind of not leadership but it's kind of still preaching, but it's learning how to exalt, how to encourage. It's still having those elements on the front end like a good m MC would do for an event.

Pastor Jacobi 45:52

Yeah, and understanding what is an exhortation. How do you do that? What does that mean? Like you know what is a technique towards that, and don't get scared to when somebody says words like technique, style, skill. You know, yes, we're still under the God's, we're still in the anointing of God, but everything comes with an actuality of practice and technique and style. You can't just go out there and think it's just going to happen. It's not going to happen that way. You got to know, you got to be intentional in those aspects and then allow God to move from there. So you answered it real good. But just going into, you know, just just one question that I think is important, because we talked about the preacher, we talked about the teacher Is it possible to be both a hybrid a treacher is what they call it and have, uh, or do you have to focus to develop one?

Pastor Jacobi 46:45

Like, do you have to focus on just one to develop one? So, hey, I learned how to dribble with my right hand. You know, know, I I'm really good with dribbling and I'm really good with dribbling with my right hand. I'm really, really good at dribbling with my right hand. Stick with you. A lot of different places do I have to dribble with my left. Do I need to learn how to dribble with my left is? Is it important or me dribbling with my right hand?

Dr. Dowell 47:14

Okay, good. So the question is then do I have to be a hybrid preacher? That's the question. Do I have to be a hybrid? That's what you're saying. Do I have to be hybrid?

Pastor Jacobi 47:25

Yes, do you have to be like? No, I'm saying it's impossible to be a hybrid. Okay, yeah, do you have to do either, or, like I'm a preacher, I'm a teacher, or do you need a hybrid?

Dr. Dowell 47:36

Okay, do you have to be a preacher, teacher? I think we kind of hit it, but I think the person would want to clear that up even more. So what we're doing, we're kind of the Bible talked about in Hebrews, how that the Word of God is quick and powerful and sharper than any two-edged sword, dividing as a sunder. When we look at that in that text there's a Greek word in there called marismos, where we do the breaking down, where you break apart so that you can distribute and understand it, like we break water down, h2o, dividing as a sunder. So we break it down so we can hear clear sounds, so we can get it down. So what we're doing, we're just breaking down, preaching and teaching. Sometimes it's hard to really it takes the word, in other words, kobe, sometimes we'll we're splitting hairs. You know what I mean. We're going to have to put a pin right there in this conversation, the Q&A concerning the full plate with myself and Pastor Jacoby.

Dr. Dowell 48:41

I pray that you've been blessed by this episode. Be sure you tune in next time Because I'm going to be dealing first of all with this question of being a hybrid minister, preacher, teacher, teacher or preacher. Can I do both? We're going to begin to deal with that and some other questions that we have concerning the full plate ministry. I pray that you will bless. Be sure you tune in for the conclusion of it.

Dr. Dowell 49:10

Again, if you didn't subscribe, be sure that you do subscribe so that you can get all of the podcasts. Be sure you look in the show notes so that you can get all the materials that we have. That'll be a blessing for you. Also, you can donate, be a part and support in this podcast. We really would appreciate it. I want you to remember, no matter where you are, what you are experiencing in the season of your life. God has destined you for greatness. I pray that you have eaten well and the result of you eating well, you will be able to excel in your five-fold ministry Until our next time together. We love you. God bless you. We'll see you for part two. Thank you.