Preaching vs Teaching Explained | Discovering Your Preaching Voice Part 2

Struggling with sermons that sound right but don’t change lives? We dig into the missing pillar most ministers never get trained on: communication intent. Beyond hermeneutics and homiletics, intent decides whether you’re aiming to spark action or build understanding—and it’s the key to choosing the right lane at the right moment.

We break down the practical difference between preaching and teaching without the myths. Preaching isn’t “loud”; it’s proclamation that provokes a response. Teaching isn’t “slow”; it’s explanation that secures clarity and application. Using biblical frames—kerysso and didasko—we map outcomes to methods: heart vs head, urgency vs clarity, breakthrough vs breakdown. Then we show you how to season a message with both fire and form so people both yearn for God and learn of God.

You’ll hear concrete, repeatable methods to use this week: preaching cadences and strategic repetition that build momentum; teaching tools like definitions, analogies, object lessons, and stepwise frameworks that make application obvious. We also tackle the silent struggles—why solid sermons don’t land, why applause can mask a lack of transformation, and how to avoid two common crashes: information overload with no imitation, and emotion overuse with no instruction. The rule of thumb: let the assignment set the approach. A revival close demands stronger proclamation; a workshop breakout requires structured instruction. Authenticity stays intact—you don’t abandon your voice; you adjust your pace.

By the end, you’ll know how to mark your outline with intent, shift lanes mid-message, and measure impact by fruit instead of volume. Subscribe, share this with a minister who needs it, and drop a comment with the lane you’re strengthening next. If this helped you balance urgency with clarity, leave a review and tell us your biggest takeaway.

Transcript

Welcome, Mission, And Resources

SPEAKER_00 0:06

Welcome to the Fivefold Food Podcast, hosted by Dr. Robert F. Dial, where ministers receive the spiritual nourishment they need to succeed. The Word of God declares, and He gave some apostles and some prophets and some evangelists and some pastors and teachers for the perfecting of the faith. Prepare to receive revelation, wisdom, and insight. Empower your ministry for victory.

Sponsor And Training Opportunities

Series Recap: Discovering Your Voice

Pastor Dowell 0:36

Now, let's eat. Praise the Lord. This is the day that the Lord has made and we shall rejoice and be glad in it. Welcome to another edition of the Fivefold Food Podcast, where our endeavor is to help the fivefold minister eat well that they can excel. We're glad that you're here. We ask that you pull up a seat at the table as we get ready to serve the fivefold food. I'm going to encourage all of you, whether you're listening to us uh on YouTube or iTunes or Spotify, please be sure you hit that subscribe button and so that you can get all the latest podcasts. Go ahead. If you're on YouTube, go ahead and hit it, share it with a friend as well so that they can be blessed by the podcast as well. Also on YouTube, or whatever you're listening to, if you're listening by audio, be sure you subscribe so you can get the latest podcast. Also, if you are on YouTube or Spotify, look in the show notes. You can see some great resources that we have available for you. If you're watching on YouTube, you can scan the QR code where you can find out some uh uh ministry materials that will be a blessing unto you. We want to thank God for today's podcast that's partly partially sponsored by the New Life Bible College and Seminary to help you grow in your ministry. If you ever thought about going back to school, getting your degree, or getting your ministry certification, whether it's an altar work, ministry training, be sure you check out the New Life Bible College and Seminary. You can visit the website at New Life Bible College Lawton.org. Again, that's new life bible collegelawton.org. Find out how that you could get the degree. You've done the work, minister, but you don't have anything to show for it. Well, I'm excited about today's podcast. I want to bring, as always, my good friend and my podcast partner for the Fivefold Food, uh, Pastor C P Cornelius from the great state of Florida. How are we doing today, man of God?

Pastor Cornelius 2:48

Well, well, sir. What about yourself, man? All is well here.

Why Preachers Confuse Lanes

Pastor Dowell 2:51

All is well. I'm excited about uh the podcast uh uh in our last time together. I'm still excited from our last session uh when we were together. We began a podcast series dealing with uh finding uh your preaching voice, discovering your preaching voice. When I was in Devil was to help the preachers find their preaching voice. If you didn't get that first podcast, be sure you go back on YouTube, look in the playlist, or on iTunes and find that podcast. I believe it'll be a blessing unto you. And today, uh Dr. Canelius, we want to dive right into this podcast and we want to continue uh to deal with the podcast. And so we want to talk about today discovering your preaching voice, uh, part two. We're gonna look at discovering your preaching voice uh part two, and in particular, today we want to look at uh knowing the lanes. Today, knowing uh the lanes, we want to deal with preaching uh versus teaching. So we want to look at knowing the lanes, preaching uh versus teaching, so we can understand uh some things about that. You know how we like to begin this uh pastor uh Cornelius. You know, before we can ever uh go go deep into a thing, we need to frame it first. Before you build it out, we need to frame it. So let's kind of uh frame this conversation so that we can uh understand the necessity or the importance of it. Why do you believe, in your opinion, this this subject is so necessary to help preachers and finding their voice? Uh, why do you believe maybe preachers and teachers uh struggle with kind of understanding these the lanes of preaching and teaching? We hear it a lot, it's not a new word. Why do you think they may struggle in terms of this so we can understand the importance of this conversation?

Pastor Cornelius 4:42

I think because uh many of us was modeled, uh, we seen the model of preaching, but not taught teaching. We was modeled the preaching, we seen the model, but we wasn't taught teaching. In other words, so cause of that, I think we learned to celebrate preaching, but wasn't always trained to Ice to cultivate teaching. So I think the other confusion, some people confuse style with sustenance. We look at the style, and so the style sometimes usually just was the preaching, and therefore we didn't look at the substance, and we would say the sustenance seemed to be more the teaching thing. We would say loud equal preaching, we would say slow equal teaching, and because of that, there was a struggle. So if I'm too loud, that means I'm not really teaching, but if I go slow, that means I'm not really preaching. So I think that that was a struggle, and I think the platform pressure pushed ministers to perform instead of really to really instead of really this discern the moment that they was in. So because of that, I think it became not a misunderstanding about the calling, just a misunderstanding about the lanes. They know they called, but the misunderstanding was about the lane, and we oftentimes kind of rewarded, you know, those we rewarded the gifted fi before we really did the form dealt, you know. But we didn't really talk that we really didn't do much about ones that had dealt form.

Pastor Dowell 6:44

Kind of unpacked that a little for for me with that.

Silent Struggles And Missed Outcomes

Pastor Cornelius 6:47

Okay, so what I'm saying is the fi was always connected to the preaching, but the teaching we celebrated that when you said we rewarded that, yeah. We when we rewarded, I mean we celebrated that, so uh so some guys became confused which lane they didn't know how to shift lanes because I know you're gonna probably discuss further down, but they the struggle with with it is that if I just if I teach that's not really celebrated, so I need to put fi to it and get loud so that could represent preaching. So, in a nutshell, what I'm saying, they they they didn't know the difference between that, between the two, and because they didn't know the difference, it's a struggle for them to get in their right lane.

Intent: The Missing Third Pillar

Pastor Dowell 7:38

Wow, I think that's good. Oh, I love that, Pastor Uh C. Um, if we are going to find our voice, which you helped us last time and talked about finding our voice is kind of like we all have a fingerprint. That's right. And then I kind of went and like our voice is our voice print, you know, our mantle, our message, our voice that distinguishes us, the message that we carry. I think, in part of that, if we're gonna find it, I think we we need to understand our preaching voice, our teaching voice. It might be to different degrees or different levels or different proportions, but we need to discover that voice of preaching and that voice of teaching. And I think you give us a good background while while we need this and many struggle at it. I I thought about this too. I think men and preachers struggle, but they I don't think they're struggling. I don't think they're saying, Pastor C, in so many words, I don't know the difference between preaching and teaching. I think it's more of a silent struggle. I don't think too many preachers say it. I know the difference. I don't know. Like, I don't know the difference between preaching and teaching, but I think it's more of a silent struggle, and it's a struggle in what they are experiencing, meaning that why this conversation is so important, so that we could know the lanes, find our lanes, so we can know how to operate within the lanes. And when we talk about lanes, finding our voice in these areas, and so that's what we want to submit that we need to find our voice in these areas is by what they're experiencing. In other words, they feel a certain fatigue or heaviness. I know I felt that way before, where they felt like a message didn't land right. It they felt like they know it was scripturally sound, they know that it was biblical, it wasn't poison, it wasn't uh isegesis, but it didn't feel like it didn't land. And I think part of that struggle, the reason that didn't land because they hadn't mastered the lanes, and I think we all have to continue to master. I think it going back to the to mastering uh the lanes and knowing those lanes, so it's that how did it land? They struggle with that, then sometimes that that the struggle is there's a confusion why they really don't know why some sermons seems to inspire, but they don't transform. I mean that you hear pastors and preachers feel like, man, um man, people pre I'm preaching and teaching, but my people not changing, and there's a frustration they feel like, and they're and it'll cause them to berate the people because they feel like hey, I'm I'm I'm giving y'all the word and y'all ain't doing it. See, that's a struggle there because they're not understanding, in my opinion, Pastor C, the language of preaching and teaching, and so and all the time they get they'll they'll get feedback like man, that that was good, you know, but but I'm they they're still they're still unclear in what to do, and I think that happens because why this conversation is so important, Pastor C, because in seminaries, uh, many some preachers were not seminary taught or trained. Correct. Then others that still learn, but they didn't learn in a formal way, even though whatever they were taught and trained, most things where it was formal and informal, and what most preachers get they get some level of teaching in three distinct in two areas they learn about homiletics, which focus on delivery. That's correct. So they focus homiletics delivery, hermeneutics will focus on interpretation, however, very little time or teachings have been done that are spent on communication intent. In other words, what am I trying to produce in the listeners? And many ministers struggle because they they don't know the difference. See, teaching produces a certain thing, preaching is meant to produce a certain outcome, and because we were taught about the the the hermeneutics, the interpretation of the scripture, the homiletics, the delivery, but what about the intent? See, because if you you you you're frustrated because the people are not changing it because you might not have the right intent. There's an intent with teaching, and there's an intent with preaching, and so uh I I think that's part of why we need that, uh, Pastor C. Oh, and I think go ahead, Pastor.

Defining Preaching And Teaching

Pastor Cornelius 12:31

I think you need to break that down. So you you say there's a let me if I'm hearing you clearly, the one one of the breakdowns with some pastors is that the communication intent, right? Yeah, so you say preaching has an intent, and you say teaching have an intent. Can you uh uh unwrap that for me a little bit? What's the intent?

Pastor Dowell 12:56

The the and we'll go a little bit deeper when we break down teaching. Maybe we'll look at it more detail teaching versus preaching, but teaching has an intent for it. Teaching is part of teaching is instructing, okay. It's a goal, in other words, there's a goal, and we'll that we'll deal with it here in a moment so we can get it in detail. There's a goal for teaching, okay. There's a goal for preaching. So the preacher, whether a pastor, whoever mounts the holy pulpit, whenever they amount, if they're not clear on their clear on that they got right hermeneunics, they're clear on the homiletics, the points, the outline, how they're gonna deliver them the method. But what intent do you want with this overall sermon? What intent do you want with each particular part within the sermon? Is it a preaching intent? And we'll uh we'll unpack it in a minute, or is it a teaching intent? And if you are not aware of the differences or the nuances, then you don't get the the results that you wanted to get because you didn't you weren't aware of like you weren't thinking about what it what outcome do I want by what I'm gonna say? Do I want a teaching outcome or do I want a preaching outcome? And so, what's the intent? And so I think uh as part of that, and so uh and we'll we'll let's get ready, we'll dive right into that. Um but I want to say this, Pastor C. Uh uh, go ahead. You had another statement?

Pastor Cornelius 14:22

No, I want to say you good.

Greek Roots: Kerysso And Didasko

Pastor Dowell 14:24

I want you to, I want to say this. I think you're right that some people were. I think from my experience, when you said preaching was celebrated. Oh, I think that's interesting. From my experience, I think part of why we need this teaching because it's based on people's exposure and their experience. We all had different experiences and different exposure. See, some like me, I was exposed to the exact opposite. I was exposed to where preaching was emotional and really not worth worth it, it was worthless. So was that my initial exposure that preaching was like it was worth it, it was all about and a sweet pill of it was about a sweet pill of emotion. And and and people did not need more emotional height within the church. What they needed was teaching and information, and so that was my initial exposure. So I had and like like you said, some had uh uh uh uh they look down on teaching from my experience and my exposure in the camp that I was in. I look we looked down on preaching because that was just emotional, and so so so you can see how you can have people in different lanes. So uh uh and and others, like you said, they was told teaching was boring and it and it will it was licensed. So many men and many men is just like you said, they confuse now volume, pace, person or personality with the function. So they think it's if it's loud, it must be preaching. So they tried to make the get loud, and they thought it must be preaching, or if they're calm and they put on a lapel mic and they walk around and they fold their hands and walk slow around the congregation. That got to be teaching, it gotta be teaching if they're not loud, and so and they still they they didn't define the lane, and so uh that that's why I think why we're in a country processy, because many don't say they don't know, but I don't really think they really do know the difference between preaching and teaching.

Pastor Cornelius 16:39

Okay, so in in talking about that difference, then so the preaching is I I like to say preaching is like announcing it.

Pastor Dowell 16:50

That were it's let's just let's go to it then. Let's just let's define it then. Let's let's get right into it, then let's define it because we see in the scripture Jesus went about preaching and teaching, teaching, that's correct. In Mark chapter 4 and 33, we talk about that. So, what I think he did, I want you to hit this as we break it down. Jesus went about preaching and teaching, so Jesus knew how to shift in the lanes. Yes, see, see, he he preach and teach. You can't shift in the lanes if you don't have an appreciation for the lanes and you don't know what the lanes is. So, Pastor C now, will you help us? We see now why people may not have an appreciation. I had no appreciation for preaching in the inception of my ministry. I looked down on preaching, it was emotional, it was a sweet pill. I had no no hadn't didn't want anything to do with it. Others looked down on teaching, and I've run across people who looked at teaching. Man, that's boring, man. That's oh that's that's dry. And so now we see why people have uh a stereotype, but then they don't know how to shift in the lane. So will you go ahead now and let's begin, let's break down, let's define, let's look at the difference between preaching and teaching so that we can learn how to shift in them.

Head Vs Heart: Choosing Outcomes

Pastor Cornelius 18:05

Like I said, to me, preaching is like you're proclaiming and you're announcing it. I call it announcing it, you you declaring truth. Okay, and for me, preaching is also like a it calls for a response. Okay, you like you you're awakening somebody's faith. Right? So I feel like it's more it's more motivational as well. It can be it can be motivational. Um in doing it, it's is is as I'm preaching, I'm more so lightnified under you. But when I'm teaching, I'm explaining it. So now I'm I'm I'm I'm where I'm actually explaining now, where I was proclaiming, now I'm explaining it when I'm teaching. So now it's it's more a lot is formed on getting a a clear, I'm developing some understanding with the teaching. Well I'm actually developing some some understanding. And also with it, I feel like with teaching, I can also inspire with with the teaching. You know, some would say, uh, you do more motivated with I feel like I can also inspire you by by teaching you. And it seems with teaching, people seem to feel, and I think it does happen with teaching, you you sustain more of what you brought up earlier. Change, transformation can take place. I know it can with both, but you feel like it's more of something that's sustained, it's more sustainable. The changes with teaching through teaching, through teaching, yes, through teaching, where is there? So I kind of look at it like this, too, dial. It's like when we think of being vertical, it's like it's God in preaching speaking to people. Please hear me clearly. I know God speaks in both, but then I think Arizona is more like with the truth, is now being unpiked in that way. When I'm teaching, I'm unpiking the truth, and I think through preaching, now God does speak to both, is more of a it's more of the vertical where God is speaking to the people. I like that so so so that side I you know I I look at that further as uh a way of breaking down the difference in the two, and once again, I don't think volume has anything to do with it at all. I really don't, and I don't think what type of mic you wear has anything to do with it, you know, whether it's the lapel or the handheld, because what you said is so true. Normally, if you get the handheld, immediately we say, Oh, that's a preacher. If he got the lapea, oh man, but I think knowing the two, once you know the two, you definitely can do what you said earlier, is now I know how to switch the lanes, and I think Jevas, like you said, definitely from one of the scriptures you quoted, where you can see where Jeevas at one point I feel like he was proclaiming, and then the other points he was explaining.

Methods: Models, Mentors, And Cadence

Shifting Mid‑Message With Purpose

Pastor Dowell 21:30

I think that's good, and when we dig down to what you said, you when you talked about the vertical, I love that in horizontal. You said like the teaching help more things be sustained. Yes, and one brings up, and you said the preaching brings about like a transformation, you know, lasting. So then that's when I get back to why people they have they don't understand because they're frustrated because they're not getting the results through their preaching that they want, because maybe when you are preaching, you should. Be teaching correct, and maybe when you're pre teaching, you should be preaching because you said preaching lands a light of fire, yeah. So is in your intent we can look at the overall message or points within the message, places is your goal in your intent to light a fire or to unpack a truth, right? So if your intent is to unpack a truth, you need to be in the lane of teaching. Yes, have on your teaching hat, right? Float in that lane. Why? Because you're unpacking a truth that you want them to pick up what you're putting down. See, but if you're not aware of this, you want them to pick up what they're putting down, but what happened is you ain't you ain't in the right lane for it. You you or you make it difficult for them to do it, or you want a light of fire on them. You're you're you're you're because sometimes the problem is not what people know, they know what to do, they just not inspired to do it. Okay, so you said there's an element of inspiration that teaching can bring you, but then we can see maybe the greater preacher may bring that more inspiration. So if you want that inspiration to get people moving, acting, responding, maybe you may need to lead lead more into the preaching. But if you don't know the differences and you think preaching is just getting loud and and and squalling, yeah, or you gotta have an organ, you say, I don't want that, I don't do that. See, and so now you don't you don't learn how to shift in them, and so now we don't get the results, and so we don't feel like our message lands. If Jesus had to do both, if he did both to walk in effectiveness, it would stand the fact that we need to do both as well. And and I and I echo what you say with with preaching. I think we're gonna we I think we gotta if we're gonna find the thing, we gotta define it. So we're gonna flow in the lanes. Let's look at like you said, what preaching. I think exactly what you said, Process. When you look at it, preaching, exactly like you said, it deals with announced, but it comes from the Greek word caruso. For those that are listening, it is k e r it is uh caruso, it is kr. Let me make sure you baby see that caruso k e r y s o that's the Greek word when the Bible talks about preaching, it means to proclaim or to announce with authority. We see this in Romans 4, and so how Romans 10. How can they hear without a preacher? The concept, Pastor C of uh what were of someone that uh Caruso in the ancient Roman times they will announce things for a king, and you go the king would give them an announcement, so they would go out and say, Here, he and they were putting out an announcement, they wasn't explaining nothing, it was not for debate, it wasn't for discussion, it wasn't instruction, they were just announcing this is what the king has said. So I love how you say that that's the vertical, yes, you know. We're not unpacking it, what we're doing, we're we're bringing it, we're pulling it down, and so so preaching deals with proclaiming, you know, and then also when we look at uh uh not only preaching, but we look at the concept of teaching. Teaching comes from a Greek word. I want you to see this. One of the things of teaching, I want y'all to be able to see it, those that are online. Teaching, one of the teaching, let me show you this. I want to uh those that are here. There we go. Teaching comes from a Greek word, one of them is it's kate c e o. And this means to instruct through repetition and structured training in order to establish a belief. One and four. So when the Bible talks about teaching, katatio, if that's I'm saying it right, forgive me, it means to instruct. Then also another word for teaching is dadasco d I d a s k o it means to instruct or explain in order to produce understanding. Then we see that in Matthew 28. So you got carusso for preaching, the dasco primarily for teaching, and then you see uh catachio for uh teaching, and so the difference just like you said, but we see it goes from the Greek, one is proclaiming, and the other one is explaining, yeah. And so when I look at the different when I'm when I'm preaching, not volume, I'm declaring a truth that provokes a response. Well, teacher, well, I'm I'm breaking it, I'm breaking it down for understanding, and like you said, they go with both. So preaching gonna more deal with the heart, teaching gonna deal with the head. Sometimes, in order for my message to be impactful, Pastor C, I need to deal with the heart of a man. That's good, man. See, that's why I'm saying to your intent in in changing the lane. What is the intent of the message or the different points in your mind? Do I want to deal with the hair or do I want to impact their heart? So if I'm gonna deal with their head, then it's teaching is it a head problem or a heart problem? If it's what it's both, but deal with both. I need to teach and preach, I need to deal with your hair and your heart, and so it so that deals with that in my book, Pastor C the foundations of longevity ministry. You be sure you get a copy of that. You'll see those that are watching, uh, you'll see a link there. You can get that link, you can get that free book that'll bless you. This is how I break it down. Preaching inspired, teaching inform. Do they need to be inspired or informed? See what I'm saying? Content, or is it intent? Preaching is inspiration, teaching is revelation. So, the point in my message of my message is it about revelation or is it about inspiration? Am I trying to give them inspiration or am I trying to give them a revelation? Of both. Well, how are you gonna bring about the inspiration? Oh, I'm just doing tithe and offering. Are you trying to give them a revelation? Inspiration. So if the goal is revelation, then give it, but then you realize maybe I need to do a little both. Maybe I want 80 to be revelation. I want to sprinkle a little inspiration on there, so that's how you learn the switch. One magnify the other one clarify.

Pastor Cornelius 28:56

That's good.

Fire And Form: Urgency And Clarity

Pastor Dowell 28:58

Preaching, build people up, teaching break the word down with preaching. You feel the power of the word, teaching, you see it in the word. Preaching is for encouragement, teaching is for enlightenment, preaching is for a celebration moment, teaching is for an application moment. Yeah, okay, yeah, preaching is for to help people get determination. Sometimes what people need, they need Pastor C, they need a determination in their soul, so you need to preach determination, get the but then sometimes they need illumination. See, one is declaring the word, the other one is dissecting the word. Preaching, give people Bible truth so you can stand. Man, I'm giving you truth that you can stand. Teaching, I'm giving you words so you can understand, and so I think we have to understand those breakdowns. See, so we'll know that's what I get back uh to uh to the intent. So it's my intent to help them stand or understand. Yeah, my intent is to get them motivated, so now when you become uh proficient and moving in these things, now you can be able to operate uh within them, and so that's why I think that's so important that we we uh we understand, we understand what it is and the difference. So we and that's where I get back to the to the uh to the intent of it. And so if you don't know the intent, you don't know when you need to flow in preaching versus teaching, and so that's what I think about when you understand. I think I love how you said it's not volume because if you think in volume, you think in microphone, maybe a lapel mic, what it does for me, Pastor C, it may put me more in a framework of teaching, but that don't mean I'm limited to teaching, right? Right, holding a hand mic might make another person put them more in the framework, it just depends, but it don't mean that you're limited where you learn how to flow and and both of them. What are you hearing in this, Pastor C? What what what are you hearing in this?

Pastor Cornelius 31:09

That the the everything that you were saying, I think I think the preaching looked more like urgency, fire, inspiration, and even more moment focused. Because I think preaching boom, that moment focus when teaching is a little bit more of process focus, because now they have no, it's a process things you they get the understanding, the process that you know, and and then I think of preaching. Normally I'm thinking altar call, teaching, I'm thinking more application. Two A's, but that one is altar call, the other one, the other a is how application. I'm I'm gonna apply. So that that that with preaching, I see more of the fire with with teaching is the forming. Put you on fire, but I'm forming you, you know, and like I say, with preaching, more of the urgency with with with with teaching, like you said earlier, more of the of the clarity. So that's what that that's I I break that down now.

Workshop Vs Revival: Reading The Room

Common Mistakes And Overload

Pastor Dowell 32:21

Urgency and clarity, yeah. Let's break it down when we talk about this in some uh in real ministry settings, and you can tell what you're hearing. When I'm hearing this, we look at this how this look like these distinctions in a in a ministry setting. When you say fire, I think when we remember, I talked about too in the um part one, finding our voice, that you need models, yep, you need mentors, yeah, and then also you need you need methods, methods, that's right. You you need models, mentors, and part of the methods. And so I think what happens is when you realize this, like you said, for fire, when you learn this preaching or bring about a fire, so sometimes you got to know within your message. Do do I do do I do is it is it is the intent, not just your intent, what's the best intent? What's the heart of God? What would be most effective for this sermon, for this point within the sermon, is it more to bring fire or to help bring a form, people to get in a form? Because see what happened when you begin to know that for the in the moment and for the message, you can feel like this is a moment that that that would be most impactful because the whole thing, this is your word, past you. We got to realize in preaching, I mean in ministry, it's not whether what's better or not, it's not preaching versus teaching is one better or not, and and we all will flow in different dimensions based on our gift and calling than others, but the whole goal is impact, right? That's it. So, what will what will this when we come students of the game? What will bring about the most impact for this sermon overall, or or this point within the sermon? What will bring the best impact? Fire or form, urgency or clarity, you know, standing or understanding, you know, uh a breakdown or a breakthrough. What go what would be the most and when you learn this? Now you craft the points within the message and you realize I need to shift in this part. I'll be better served if I shift into a preaching moment because this is or I'll be better served if I lean into a teaching dimension. Now, this is where it comes to models and methods. When you master this, then you'll know there's some preaching methods that you can use, methods for effective preaching, like there are methods for effective teaching, teachers, man. Now you teach us so I'm in that moment. So now if it so now I'm I'm sometime as you prepare for the moment when you're putting it together homiletically, remember, and hermeneutically, now you put it together with intent. Yes, right here. I need I I think I think as you're praying, as you're seeking God for that congregation, for that people, I think right here may be more of a preaching moment. Yeah, here may be I may need a teaching moment, or or I need a teaching emphasis. So so now I'm gonna lean into the to the methods that make effective teaching. What are some of those? An illustration, a story, an object, or or or an analogy, or a parable, uh a defining of a term. These are teaching methods. I'm gonna define a term, I'm gonna Greek it. I'm I'm I'm going to give you an object lesson like Jesus. It's like unto a pen. It's not able to write, it can't write, but when I put fire to this pen, it can write again because I'm putting fire to it, old school. You shook sometimes you shake in the pen. So I'm I'm I'm preaching the teaching. So you learn it. Um what my object lesson I'm teaching, I because I want you to explain, but then you can shift in five seconds to a preaching moment. Now I want to inspire you. Life has been shaking you, God been shaking you because He's getting ready for you to write again. You hadn't been writing, things hadn't been flowing out of you like they used to, but there's been a shaking, and some of you he said, I can't shake it out of you, but I allowed the fire of God to get. Um, I'm just trying to keep it illustrated. So you learn this, you can shift gears because you realize this is the teaching moment, this is the preaching moment. Why this is the fire moment, this is the urgency, this is the breakthrough, this is the breakdown. I hope all that makes sense. This is why we gotta we can't unpack it all now. This is why you gotta learn the the new answers, so then that way you can learn how to flow. Why now you'll realize sometimes that's probably why the message didn't seem like it landed right. Not that it wasn't doctrinally sound, not that it didn't help people, but you felt something missing why per cost probably you could have better did a better job in defining and knowing the intent that God wanted you to have, and rest in the intent that it was uh it was a forming moment, not a fire moment. So now nobody jumped, nobody shouted, but God said you hit the mark. This wasn't about fire, this was about forming, this was not about their the heart, this was about their mind getting right, and that's what's gonna bring about the transformation. Uh uh that that's what I'm seeing, Pastor C, when you said that urgency. That's why I think we gotta understand uh the the different nuances of the uh the preaching and uh the teaching. That makes sense. Oh man, it's good.

Pastor Cornelius 38:25

That's good.

Balance, Alignment, And Avoiding Crashes

Pastor Dowell 38:26

So, what do you anything else you see in that C before we move on? How that look like in in in uh in preaching and in a ministry setting. That's why I gave that example, so you know it. So when you're crafting uh your message, and you and again, this is why we need preaching models, teaching models, preaching mentors, teaching mentors, preaching methods. What's the preaching method? I mean, it's just some method of preacher, it met one method of preacher. What when they're trying to uh bring about a fire, sometimes they'll it might be it's might be in the cadence and the repetition as they announce it. Yeah, it's the cadence of it. It is that God is about to do some powerful things in your life, in your family, in your marriage, in your ministry. It's called a front-end repetition. Yes, he's about to do some powerful things. What in your back end repetition? Same thing in your marriage, in your family, in your it's a it's a repetition. It that's a preaching method. The breakthrough is happening, breakthrough in your home, breakthrough in your marriage, breakthrough in your family, front-end repetition. Sometimes it's a front-end repetition, sometimes it's a back end repetition, but there's a cadence that there's a flow in it. Why? Because it meant we're proclaiming God, there's about to be a breakthrough in your mind, there's about to be a breakthrough with your children, there's about to be a breakthrough that it's a repetition, there's a cadence, there's a rhythm to it, there's a flow to it. These are preaching methods that you get from the great preachers. But if you don't appreciate a preacher, you won't be able to pick up what they're putting down because you will miss the method. Or if nobody taught you how to break down film, you won't know when somebody's in the bag. That's why we got this five-four food. When you see preachers, see what happens. See, when you become a student of the game, you don't just enjoy the game, you pick up plays from the game.

Pastor Cornelius 40:41

That's correct.

Pastor Dowell 40:42

See, the average fan goes to a game, they just said, Man, that man, that was a game. But a coach realized, man, that was a game. I I like that play they ran, and I'm gonna I'm gonna add that play to our playbook, but I'm gonna tweak it. I'm not gonna be a copier or imitator, but I'm gonna innovate off that. I like I I like the way, I like the way he did that. But I watch you, Pastor C. I watch you, and I pick up a method. I watch you, and it's like, man, I see you get excited, you start jumping, and it's authentic. It's not, it's not, it's real, it's not like you, it's like, man, he's excited, and and what did I get out of that? You got to give yourself to the message. A preacher sets himself on fire, and others come and watch him. But that man is really excited about what he's saying, so I learned that's the method. How is it a method? I got to make sure that I'm excited down in my soul about what I'm gonna say. But see, that but but I'm not I got to be excited, so I gotta I gotta talk to the Lord. See, I gotta get it, I gotta get it in me. Why I got to be excited down in my soul, and it comes out.

Pastor Cornelius 41:58

But see, but your preacher is watching it from Skycam. It's a Skycast when you watch, you're not watching the game from regular TV like the average person. You're watching it, you know, the new thing they got now, the Skycast, where it's showing you different things. See, with a regular watcher, say, why they got it zoomed in like that? And see what you do, you come in zoom in focus when you studying film, so you learn methods, you pick up things compared to just someone just coming and just saying, ah, that was a good game, like you brought up earlier, because they're not looking for it now. You and so preachers have to we have to armor ourselves to get mentors, we have to armor ourselves to learn to pick up methods. See, that's what it takes. Take humility to sit there and say, I'm gonna feed. I don't have to be, I don't have to be a copier, no, but what I want to do, I want to learn and tweak it to fit me. But I learned from it. I'm trying to pick up the method, not just what they're saying, but the method.

Grow Both Hands: Build Both Voices

Pastor Dowell 43:13

See, because now wisdom is the principal thing. Get the principle. There you go, and the principle can apply. And but if you don't it go back to the original, what we talked about from the beginning. If you don't have an appreciation, appreciation for preaching, you don't want to pick up the methods, you ain't even listening to them. If you think whatever you call preaching, if they do that, you don't even want to hear them, right? They do that hacking stuff. I'm done. He's a hack. I won't hear I'm done. All that loud, all that sweating. Because I remember when Jace first came out out in the early 90s. See, there was a lot of people that didn't like Jace. And you remember when Jace came out when he would always talk about that, people told him, Jace, you got a good word, you know. You good, but all that sweating and stuff like that, it's not gonna get you nowhere because you could. And I even heard someone say this someone that I really respect, and they you know they didn't say it in a bad way, and they were just being honest with me. But what they said, like when they first heard Jake's, they was wondering, like, they're like, Man, he seemed like he came off with a veneer of ignorance come off like they weren't saying he was why because in that time when he came out, all that yeah, he he was loud, he was sweating, he was walking around, he he he was a microphone, he was pre preaching. My point is if you whatever you call that, you won't pick up their methods and learn how to adapt it and not be like them, but learn the nuances that may season your delivery, right? Season your sermon. You ain't got it, it might it might season it right, take it to another level. Same thing with teaching. If you don't like teaching and you felt like it's bored, and you don't and anybody that teaching, you flip it, you don't learn their method, right? And now that seasoning could cause your ministry to be even more impactful because now you're learning methods, so that's why I think if we don't appreciate it, have it, we we miss all of that. See, so we're not even open to it, and then if we think that we are just this or that, if we're just if we think we're just this or that, then we miss it as well, too. Because, like, I'm a preacher, I'm a teacher. Instead of realizing, like, no, I may predominantly teach, I may my my natural, uh, my my natural, I'm a natural right-handed, but I'm gonna learn to use my left, or I'm natural left, and so but you learn that so that way you can be effective, and that's what we talked about in one of previous podcasts. How to minister with a full plate. I talked about how to minister with a full plate and learn how to use both of your hands, right?

Pastor Cornelius 45:58

That's good. That's good. So that's what I see in that down, and that the key is what you brought up in all of that understanding and all that getting get an understanding, and because we don't get an understanding, it's correct that we struggle with switching, many middle struggle with switching from preaching to teaching because they don't have an understanding of what's what, so I shy away from what I feel like is not me, so it's it's that type of thing, yeah.

Pastor Dowell 46:30

Yeah, let me ask you this. See if where we can kind of nail it down clear. How does a preacher learn and flow in both lanes without losing their authenticity? I just kind of touched on it a moment, you know, or because I can hear the preacher saying, like, how do we? I don't know the minister because we really want to help them that may feel like I'm a man, I'm a teacher and trying to preach or like man, I'm a preacher, I'm not trying to teach. How can they do it in Florida?

Closing, Resources, And Next Steps

Pastor Cornelius 47:00

I don't want to come off, I don't want to come off wrong by saying this now, but you have to let the assignment determine the approach and not the ego, and what I mean by that is that I think you learn how to do it without losing who you really is by not getting caught up in your ego or who you is and in and looking at the assignment, if that makes sense to you. This way, I see I I was just listening to something, something I was putting together in what I use for illustration is when Jesus, remember when Jesus was coming on Palm Sunday, he was coming into Jerusalem. One of the things that was taking place is in what came to my mind, he kept on riding. Now, for somebody, uh what that mean, he kept riding, but it was literally thousands of people saying, Hosanna, Hosanna, you know, Hosanna, some say the son of David, Hosanna, you know, who comes in the name of the Lord. They they would celebrate him, right? But notice Jesus never stopped to deal with any of the celebrations, nothing like that. And in our time, he didn't even start to take a selfie, nothing, he didn't stop to say, hey, follow me on you know, Pastor C Dot, such and such, you know, nothing like that. He just kept on going now because Jesus recognized some down, but I believe you recognize that people flip, people flip on you because now these same group of people begin to say what later on, crucify him. They flip. But Pastor, what's your whole point? Is that if you get caught up in you, you haven't shared it a couple times where you feel like you were saying, so guys feel like the message ain't go over well, uh, they didn't hear maybe what they wanted to hear from people that was listening. So if you get caught up in the opinion of people, you lose what your whole purpose are your intent, your assignment, because I call that you get caught up in the ego of what you're hearing. If you get caught up in everybody saying Hosanna when you're coming in, when they crucify you, it's gonna destroy you. When they say crucify y'all, when they criticize you, it's gonna destroy you. So, what's your whole point in all this prophecy? What's the point that you're making? The point that I'm making is that in order to switch, you have to understand what your assignment is, and if I understand my assignment and my intent, I now I'm able to switch without losing who I am. But if I'm caught up in what what I'm hearing bite from the people from the audience, I struggle with switching because that ain't really me. If all that makes sense to you. I know I went a long way around, but if all that makes sense to you. Oh no, it does. It it makes a lot of sense. So so what I'm saying, you don't abandon your voice, down. What you do, you just adjust your pace. I'll put it that way. You don't abandon your your voice. This is your voice, but I learned how to adjust my pace, and what I mean by my pace now, I go back to what you brought up earlier. Whether I'm whether it's fire, I form here. That's my intent. I just adjust that. So if I'm one that normally preach and bring fire, I don't change my voice, but I adjust my pace, and now I move from fire to forming.

Pastor Dowell 50:42

And I would submit it two sides to how you look at the mountain as you're adjusting your your your pace and your intent. Now I'm forming, I'm just not giving fire, and that's gonna change not only maybe how you say it, but what you're saying too. That's correct, but yet you're not losing who you are.

Pastor Cornelius 51:00

No, because that's the question you ask. How can you do it without losing who you really are?

Pastor Dowell 51:05

Yeah, that's good. But you realizing that it's still you, and how I would submit it is you are you within your preaching voice if you're fired, then you finding you within your teaching voice.

Pastor Cornelius 51:18

There you go.

Pastor Dowell 51:19

My teaching voice may not look like their teaching voice. That's my teaching voice. Because remember, teaching is not volume.

Pastor Cornelius 51:28

That's right.

Pastor Dowell 51:29

You can mean see, I could be loud and telling you, Pastor C for the podcast, even that we're doing live right now, in order for me to give you a message that they can't see on the screen. If you look down in the lower corner of the of the screen, I can send you a message that they can't see, it'll pop up on your screen. We can communicate, and nobody I'm saying it with passion, and I'm saying I'm teaching you how to communicate online. Yes, somebody said well, he's preaching. Was I preaching the teaching? No, see, I was telling you, man, how do we communicate on? But what was I preaching the teaching? You was teaching, you was giving me an understanding. I was loud and passionate. See, I was loud and passionate, but you was giving me some clarity, instructions, instructions, that's it, right? Yes, see, that was so my point is teaching. See the intent, the intent was to help you understand and know what to do and application. It wasn't to motivate you, so so when you learn the difference, you learn to find that just that's my teaching voice. See, I may teach with passion and get louder, but I'm teaching that's because it you gotta find your voice within T. See, my voice may not look like somebody else's voice. So that don't don't think that teaching gotta look like that. No, long as you are explaining intent, then you find your preaching voice. Man, your your preaching voice may look different. I see C. I'm gonna I want to motivate, I want to motivate Pastor C to look. Now I don't want to get you to I want to tell you how to look in the inbox, but I'm gonna motivate you. I see that's some that's some life changing information. Then in about two minutes, I'm going to put in the private messenger on this screen while we're doing this podcast, while we're recording, that's going to change your life for the rest of your life. Your days, I'm telling you, are struggle or about to be over. You're when when you get when you open up this email, this text, there's going to be a fire that's gonna create a new desire that's gonna cause you to go higher. Are you ready for it? Are you ready? I uh check the box now. What's I preaching or teaching? What one was I doing? You preaching, I was talking slow and not loud, but you was inspiring, man.

Pastor Cornelius 54:34

You was motivating, you was putting fire there.

Pastor Dowell 54:36

I how I was giving fire without being loud. What what was what was the fire about it? See, what made that fire?

Pastor Cornelius 54:44

What what what made it fire, even though you weren't even loud down, is you put some out in front of me, you put it out in front where you made it an urgency, and you say this was gonna bring something to you, so you made it an urgency there, and like I shared earlier, you put it in that moment, a moment, a focused moment there. So, this what's gonna happen when you open up, see that's where it's at, man. So you motivated me, you put that before me, wanting to go there before you was teaching me in the same tone, but you was teaching me, you was informed. I was loud though, I got loud, I was still teaching, but yet you was teaching me.

Pastor Dowell 55:31

See now, watch this. See, but how you need models, mentors, methods, yeah, methods that you can master, but you never learn to master if you don't look for the moment. Watch this, see why we need which one was which one was better? See that my my teaching moment or my preaching moment? Because the preaching moment I was loud and I was telling you what to do. The other one I was quiet. Which one was most impactful? Which one is most effective? Real time. We ain't even we didn't even rehearse this. This is loud, which one was better? Which one was better? But but both was there's one no better than the other to me. Come on, see, we got it. One had to be more one one, one had to be more it one has to be better, right?

Pastor Cornelius 56:23

No, because once again, it all depends on how you style everything. What was the intent? Your intent was to get me with the preaching to find me up to motivate me to want to go in that email. The other one was your intent was to give me an understanding of how to communicate, so based on where I'm at, for it's me, the hero, both of them work for me.

Pastor Dowell 56:59

Depends what's your intent, see, and that's when you learn, like you said, Pastor C, when you talked about the moment, the preaching, the assignment. What is the assignment that I'm given? See, it it did. They tell me we're doing a workshop. This is a is it a revival? You're a closeout speaker for a revival, you're doing uh uh work. What's the flow? What's the flow? So the assignment, not that but I don't preach. I don't we we see don't think that you got to get up there and squall. You can you you need to just find your voice. This is the revival. That means this is how do you do that? It doesn't mean that you don't be you, but you learn because when you learn you, you know what? I'm primarily a teacher, but because I know how to shift with in the assignment, since I'm closing out revival, I can sprinkle in some preaching moments, and I don't have to get loud, I don't have to squall, I don't have to say yeah, but I'm gonna do a little, I'm gonna put a little motivating. I'm a I'm a I'm gonna come up and start off this revival. Many of you at this revival, your life never gonna be the same. Your life, your I'm telling you, like Ezekiel, these things are coming together like never before. Just go touch five people and tell them it's coming together, it's coming together. You might not ever get loud, but because you learn the art of motivating, you still your little sweet you, but you learn how to like you learn how to put some preaching sauce on your message. You still you still your fiery you, but you learn how to put some teaching sauce on your message. So this is what I think how we shift and we got to. I hope I hope what we're doing is motivating and teaching people the need to discover and find their preaching and their their teaching voice. I hope we're doing a good job at it, Pastor C.

Pastor Cornelius 59:03

But I'll tell you one thing. I know whenever we usually do this, one of the things that you always bring out and ask about is what some of the common mistakes and I really think you just dealt with one. One of the common mistakes is trying to preach during a teaching moment. What do you mean? But so here it is. This is supposed to be a preaching because you you talked about the assignment. You said trying to preach during the teaching moment, right? Yeah, yeah, trying to preach during during during teaching moments. So teaching, let's define what would let's define what do you mean by teaching moment? A teaching moment could be you was invited to do a seminary, they was expecting that's a teaching moment, but you're trying to preach in this teaching moment. That's a common mistake.

Pastor Dowell 59:55

So they said, like you had to open it. You we you're gonna do a workshop from 11 to 1145. They say it's a workshop, it's a workshop.

Pastor Cornelius 1:00:03

So now what this breakout group is just a breakout group, yes, information that forming me and you talk about that clear to me and you talking about, but instead, I go in and I bring the fire because I don't know how to chip. And I'm saying so.

Pastor Dowell 1:00:18

You're saying I can't get loud. You you're not saying that you can't get loud, you can't they you can still be emotional and theatric, all of that. That's right, you can still do all that, but you got to teach though.

Pastor Cornelius 1:00:27

But you have to teach because a common mistake is is to get in the wrong you're in one place, but you're doing the wrong assignment.

Pastor Dowell 1:00:37

Wow, but see if you don't know how to shift it, then that's why you need to find your teaching voice.

Pastor Cornelius 1:00:44

That's correct.

Pastor Dowell 1:00:45

Don't mean you got put on the mic, you can still be you, but learn how to explain, how to break down, how to bring clarity, how to bring insight. You got all that in you, preacher. You just haven't been taught how to get it out. You just always give it might instead of insight, yeah. Fire instead of form. You know the form, you just got to be taught to do it. Yeah, wax on, wax off. Stop you just sometimes. You just gotta stop hitting with that hand. See what a good mentor does sometimes, they'll tell you you can't use that hand, tie behind your back. I want you just to teach why because you can use that one, but I want you to learn how to use this one.

Pastor Cornelius 1:01:24

Now that then that one becomes stronger. You get stronger at it. That's right. You become stronger, and and we recognize that. Once I'm sorry, when we do recognize that we become more effective, and we do what you brought up earlier. Now we be more become more empireful.

Pastor Dowell 1:01:47

Wow, that's good. I think uh um a mistake that we that we can make in this when they don't understand preaching teaching, they think the goal the or the intent of preaching is for a shout. So so the goal and the intent is not a shout. It may bring a shout, but the goal is not a shout. Preaching is more synonymous with a shout, but that that ain't that ain't the goal. What was the goal? Preaching, breakthrough. You can get a breakthrough without shouting. It's that people that have might and not just insight, fire and not form. You you want them to uh you want them to uh how I'm gonna preaching, you want them to get motivation, you want God to be, you want something that you want the subject of joy to be magnified in their life, you want to build them up, you want them to celebrate, you want to bring about a determination, you want to inspire them, not make people can be inspired. See, I've been inspired by messages and sat there and didn't say a word. My life was I was inspired to make changes, I was inspired but to move in my life to make a change in my life. Didn't say amen, didn't shout, didn't weigh, but I was motivated, I was inspired. So, so the goal is to see you can get all of that without the shout. So sometimes, see if we don't know it, we think we missed the mark because they they didn't yell that dun dun dun dun dun dun you and you felt dun dun you felt it fled and land, but no, you make people would inspired why because you can't base inspiration based off people's response. Some churches, some people are less responsive, some are more, but that then some people because sometimes what they're saying, man. I'm I'm eating, man. I'm I'm you this is life-changing because what you're doing, you give me something I'm chewing on. Man, you inspired me, but you dropping revelation too, so I'm still chewing, but you got discouraged because they didn't shout. That's a mistake, just because they didn't say nothing. See, they quiet, they must not be staying getting it. Y'all ain't saying nothing. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.

Pastor Cornelius 1:04:24

They note takers. We can't deal with note takers. If what you all you want is a shout out of them, they you struggle if they're a note taker where they spend their time taking notes.

Pastor Dowell 1:04:36

You preach. But this part was supposed to make them. I did the top five five people, and I said this, and I'm I just I did they didn't shout though. See, they didn't when Jace did it, they shouted. Jace said, Jace just said, get ready. He just stood there, he walked around and the music played. I did it. People looked at me like I was crazy. Jace did it, and they was like, Ah, hallelujah! He said, Hallelujah, hallelujah, hallelujah. And you did it, and everybody said hallelujah. It was just you can hear church house mouse in the back. See, that's a mistake. It should think is pre preaching, ain't for it's all those things. Get the book that they tell you, but it's like your words. See, it's about the impact, not how people react.

Pastor Cornelius 1:05:25

Right. But but I think another mistake, though, down, is to come not on fire yourself. See, whether it's the fire or whether it's the running over, people should get what our bishops always tell us people should be getting your overflow.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:49

Yeah, yeah.

Pastor Cornelius 1:05:50

They should be getting your overflow. So I so my attitude become I come on fire. I you know, I tell my people sometimes it no caps, I really mean. There's sometimes as I get into it and I'm preaching it, and as the Lord was showing me something where I say I need to sit down and take notes myself because that's how it's coming to me, and I'm seeing it.

Pastor Dowell 1:06:13

See, man, see, see man, see man, those things are uh how can I put it? Yeah, that that see that's how it's so much I'm hearing. That's how you get methods, messages, and all of that. That's why you need to get like I said earlier. Remember, I said I picked up that from you one many years ago, and not other preachers, but just use you. I saw man, how you spin it around, you spin around the pulpit. It's like, see, that's a pre thing, not just a message, but it's real, nothing, meaning that I'm really excited about what I'm saying. Yes, so you got to get excited and on fire before you get in the pulpit. Yeah, so how do I get on fire? That's another podcast in another class, but you gotta learn a system to get you on fire, right?

Pastor Cornelius 1:07:02

That's right.

Pastor Dowell 1:07:03

You gotta learn your own system. Yeah, there's a system that I go through that I have to I have to be on fire. I cannot preach a message that I'm not on fire about.

Pastor Cornelius 1:07:12

Sit down.

Pastor Dowell 1:07:14

You mean you're gonna be screaming and yelling? No, but I got to be on fire about it. So you gotta you gotta have that fire, and then methods like you said, too. I saw it. I call it you, you you gave the text, you put a tagline on it for transformation. The text was Jesus walking through, he going through, but he kept on riding. See the text that see, see that's a see to me. When I say when you learn this, that's a teaching method, and some preaching too, because it teaching can inspire, but it's a teaching message where he had a clear text that people know he's riding. Okay, I understand the text. Then he had a tagline, he kept on writing. That's a sprinkle of preaching. Why? Because it is it's catchy, yeah, it's inspiring. See, that's how you sprinkle teaching, you sprinkle preaching in a teaching method. Yeah, the teaching method was he had a text, he had a tagline that's easy to remember, he kept on writing, and it's inspiring. That's the preaching, that's the preacher's anointing. That's why them preachers have them messages. If walls could talk, which I want to talk about this morning. If walls, now see, if you don't appreciate preaching, you you don't you it ain't a how to ain't a what to, but it's like, man, that's that's why you got to get the other class about you gotta learn the the art, the appreciation of preaching and teaching because you realize, oh man, I'm still stuck on the text, man. Um that title got me. It's like uh I just uh well he kept on riding. Oh man, that's good. He can't what see the teacher like well, what did we learn, man? But the inspiration, he can't that thing is motivate you when you feel I can preach that or teach, I can preach it when you feel like giving up, keep on riding, keep on riding, keep on riding. They screen that's gonna bring about the cuz why that's gonna bring the transformation because it don't matter what people say, it don't. Oh man, I don't want to get caught, but you see, see, when you learn this, you begin to pick up that now, and like oh, I'm gonna use that. That's a method. I got a message from that. Keep on riding, keep on, don't stop riding, man. And how can I teach it? Now I'm gonna give you an illustration. I'm gonna show you this. You see this wild horse, this this bronco, you see it. That's how that's how life is. Life is like a wild bronco. I'm gonna give you a metaphor. But you see the wild horse. If you if you don't let him know sooner or later, you're gonna break it. Hold on, you're gonna break it. You gonna break it before long, don't let don't let don't let the people in your job throw you off.

Pastor Cornelius 1:10:01

That's right. What's I finished say what's part what's part of the breaking is you holding on, you hold it on. Teach part of the breaking, you break that you're holding on, you're breaking it. Teach teaching holding on because the devil don't shine his best shot at you, teaching it, but you know what? I'm holding on, and then what am I holding on to? That it's the rope there, so now I'm spelling out rope. I'm spelling out rope, so I'm coming up some with my let's teach it together.

Pastor Dowell 1:10:32

I I got the I got the R. The R and rope. Hold on to what you remember, remember what God has done for you. See, we can preach it or see. We're doing both, we're teaching it through the rope, but we're preaching it through what we're saying. You better you better not forget. That's right, and you better not forget.

Pastor Cornelius 1:10:51

You hold on by you hold on because you say you remember, you remember what you overcame. Oh, that's I'm all on the o is what I overcame. Keep shall not what you overcame. And if since you overcame that, you can overcome this if you hold on to the rope.

Pastor Dowell 1:11:08

And the P is for pain because while you're holding on to that rope, it may hurt a little bit, but the pain is gonna be worth the gain. Uh, you got to hold on through the pain, what they say, how how you feel, your feelings may be hurt. But if you hold on, that e is coming around the corner.

Pastor Cornelius 1:11:26

What's that E that's that that you embrace? That that you embrace. If if you embrace, embrace that this will be broken. Go ahead and embrace it. You hold on to that. That's what you are. The word embrace means to hold on to, hold on to. So, what I'm doing, I'm embracing my breakthrough. I'm embracing this thing. Oh man, that in time it will be broken.

Pastor Dowell 1:11:48

Man, that's how you hold on to the rope. But because I'm a gospel preacher this morning, help me close this sermon. We're not gonna hold on to a rope. You know, we're gonna hold on to because it ain't the rope that's most important, it's your hand that holds on to the rope. If you don't have the hand holding on to the rope, it ain't going nowhere. And I ain't talking about your hand, but I'm talking about his hand. Go tell five people hold on to his hand, hold on to his hand. Come on, praise things, tell them hold on to his hand. Come on, changing hands, it's unchanging hand. See that that that's what preachers do. Preachers know how to close it, let's close this thing, see, see, but you you get that from different people, right? Let's close it, let's close it. See, and so man, those are mistakes. See, that that that people make, man. Sometimes you preach too long. See, when sometimes it need to go from preaching to teaching, they need they need understanding. Yeah, then sometimes you can teach too long. Yeah, see, whether that moment, that's how you got to know the moment and learn it. We don't talk the rope, man. You don't tell them what it is. Now remember what you overcame in the pain. And what was that e again? Embrace. You got to embrace now. After you teach, sometimes realize, you know what, it's time to close the book. See, because when I was a teacher, we didn't realize sometimes you want to just keep teaching, sometimes, like, let's go ahead and close it. See, so you got to know those are mistakes. See, and so man, this is uh this has been great, man. What any final thoughts or encouragement or anything that you want to say? See, I know it's so much in here that we share, but those are some mistakes that I believe preacher preachers make, and I think uh one the mistake they make is not uh being aware of it and knowing these things. What any final thoughts that you have uh that you like to leave with the ministers? I know we have to come back and visit, but I hope they'll find their preaching voice and their teaching voice as well.

Pastor Cornelius 1:13:49

I think I think a word you you were saying, impact, another word here, I think fit down is is balance, knowing how to balance to it, knowing how to keep the balance, and and and if you don't, you get out of your lane. We talked about this before when we talked about that voice. When you get out of the lane, it's always an ice it in. It's always an ice to then and you want to stay in line. That's how you got when when when whenever a car gets out of alignment, they say it needs to be balanced. You need to balance it because alignment pulls you, it'll pull you. And and once you, if if you don't stay in a line and you get distracted, you get pulled, you get out of alignment, your car out of line, it's gonna pull you. Just talked about it Sunday. And so when it pulls you, you get out of your lane, you're gonna have an icing. It's gonna it's it's gonna it's gonna be a crash. That sermon ended up crashing, it ended up crashing because you didn't stay in alignment and you didn't have balance between the preaching and the teaching, whatever lane you was in. So you gotta know how to switch lanes. If you don't know how to switch lanes right, another car comes, you miss something, you switch wrong, bam, that thing go it's gonna crash on you.

Pastor Dowell 1:15:05

Unpack that. And so, what I mean, um teach me a little bit more. Help help me help break that down for me. Help me okay.

Pastor Cornelius 1:15:12

So, so in when you don't know how to switch from let's say the preaching to the teaching, similar to what you said earlier. Um, let's say with teaching, when it might need to be a moment now, you need to preach over lanes to to now to you preaching, and you so what you do, I call it you got you got over, you got I call it overloading information. Oh, there's an overload of information. So now, because you don't know how to switch an overload and you're trying to move over because of this load you got on, you you driving the 18-wheeler, let's say there's an overload you're trying to switch over, you create an ice in it because there's no balance there that you it's too much information, see, so you don't know how to boom switch over now. So it's almost like an overload of information with no imitation, no alter call now because you did all the teaching, it was just too much. That's good, so it in that way that's good. Uh uh, and another one that people don't like because you come what you said earlier, because we seen it thing preaching is so much of emotions, but you can't be overusing your emotions, not that's a bad thing, but over this when it becomes bad when you're overusing it and you and and you appeal with you at some point appeal from the people with no instruction. You you just you would you just got all up in your emotions, but you didn't know how to switch over to to having any instructions, so you you didn't give them any instructions. You you you you said a whole lot, but you didn't give me no instructions. So that's why I say the key is balance.

Pastor Dowell 1:16:57

Oh, I love that. I love that. See, and see what I see why it's so good, you know, why we need that and we put that within it. Because some may when you said it, others probably listen to the podcast, they got it. When you said it, you know, now and I got it, but that's when you the art of teaching is sometimes not just repetition, but saying it in a different way, yeah. See, that's the teaching method where we're gonna teach the same thing within the message, we're just gonna do it in a different way because some might not have got it to that, some might need it the illustration, or I just mean to say that that knowledge or breaking it down more, everybody different, right? You said that because I'm hearing it, and we don't know what I got it now, and and that that overload because what happens is true. I know as my dominant hand, my natural dominant hand was my teaching hand, and I know where my my my my base for me to be effective. I never want to come to a moment with uh, and I've made mistakes before if I came as a preacher, even though to save the they'll say even the moment called for a preacher, I still have to show up and I can yield to it, but I have to realize my base is teaching, I get my base is teaching something that the people need to understand. But my point is but with being a teacher, I had to learn what you said. You can get out of balance where you give too much information where you want to say everything, especially if you put it on paper, yeah. So that now, but when you learn to get taught like by mentors, like you, what you're saying, you realize it's just as bad if you give too much. Yeah, you can hurt a baby, you give them too much food. It's like it's just too much food. You it's too much. You got greens, beans, tomatoes, yams, and oxtails, and ribs. It's like, was it bad? Like it's just too much, and I had to, and then I feel even bad because I had to throw some of it away. Yeah, too much. So you learn that too much is not good either. That's correct, and then so you can miss the moment where you need to be more inspiration in that. Then, like you said, then that could be an overload of inspiration where preachers don't know that what what you said was good, but all you did you stayed up here with not just in volume, not just in intensity, too. But you say so much in inspiration that you gave no information, you didn't give no instruction, and so people left. It's it's good in the moment, but it didn't last. It's like cheap perfume, cheap cologne. You don't want to be a cheap cologne preacher, right? And so I love that. See, that is so good that you got to learn how to uh switch switch that one my my final thing, and if you have anything else you can share, I think my final thing would be for um ministers to to know is to realize that you need to grow in both lanes, yeah. You need to grow and develop in both lanes, in your pre in and lanes, as we said, but in your voice. Develop your preaching voice, develop your teaching voice, don't despise each other's preachers. Need to become better teachers that are not natural preachers. That's true. Teachers need to become better preachers. See, your voice grows clearer as you define your dominant lane, it'll produce confidence, consistency, and you'll be able to uh to to move uh forward in that. And so when you do that, as a preacher, you'll help people yearn for God, and as a teacher, you help people learn of God. We need learning and yearning, and so uh that that will be my final takeaway that they'll begin, and I I uh what I'll even say in this if just in this see, I pray and I trust that the intent of the Lord has been done, amen. That that we we we help teach them, but we um pray too. We've done a good job of hoping helping motivate them. See that see, because you see how how even on this platform that to be effective, there need to be a level of information, not just the platform, but for this message, there had to be a level, we're just breaking it behind the scenes. There need to be a level of got to be some information, but at the same time, there need to be a level of inspiration. See, that's why we framed it from the beginning before we got into the information. What was the inspiration? We want to realize why did this matter? See, because that that's a teaching method for inspiration to get on board, and that's what you said before, but see, teaching can bring inspiration. See, you you got to get people on board. If they don't get on board, you ain't you just driving the bus. That's a teaching method. Yes, see if you don't know this, you're you don't know the breakdown, and you think preaching is just screaming, but we were trying to we were we were really preaching at the beginning of the message for week, yeah. That's true, that's right. It was all inspiration, that's right, through teaching. So, any final thoughts, man? That was it for me, man. It was just a blessing, man. Man, always I love that team, man. Keep on riding, thankful that that message, man. Keep on riding. No, the rope.

Pastor Cornelius 1:23:04

Oh man, final thoughts, Pastor C. No, man. It's I once again, I I do pray everybody leave understanding the importance of balance in what you're doing, and that you stay your unique self. But yeah, I love what you said, man. And I definitely want to leave on that. We got to grow in each of each of those lanes. You grow in there, learn how to use both of your hands. So you may have to put one behind your bike right now, but you want to become strong in both of them.

Pastor Dowell 1:23:35

Yeah, and and the key just when you learn this, stay that preacher you are. But now you learn how to get in your cabinet and put some teaching sauce on it. That's all drink a little bit in there. That's it. You you you're you're a teacher, stay the teacher, but learn how to go to your preaching cabinet. Do you know that? Yeah, do you in your way, and now that beyond that's your unique sound? That becomes your ministry, your mantle, your message, your mandate, what comes out of your mouth. That's your voice. We pray today that you had a little bit more understanding to find your teaching voice and your preaching voice. Look in part, looking forward to part three, Pastor C as we continue to learn how to discover your voice. Pray that you've been blessed. Be sure that you subscribe, share this with a friend, let them know about the podcast. Be sure you check the link to get all the free resources. Check out New Life Bible College, Lawton.org to help you in your academic needs. Until our next time together, we pray that you've been blessed, and we pray that you've eaten well and you will excel. Dr. Canadians, until our next time together, my friend.

Pastor Cornelius 1:24:50

Bless you, sir. Peace be with you.