134: Wait… We Can Talk About That Now?! HUD, Fair Housing & The Crime + School Conversation

If you’ve been in real estate for the last few years, you were probably told:
 “Don’t talk about crime.”
 “Don’t talk about schools.”
 “Just send them to Google.” 😅

Well… things have shifted.

In this episode, we’re breaking down the recent update from HUD and what it actually means for agents and buyers. Because the conversation around what we can and can’t say just got a lot clearer — and honestly, a lot more practical.

We’ll talk through:
 💬 What changed (and why it matters)
 ⚖️ How this still ties into Fair Housing and staying compliant
 🧠 The difference between sharing information vs. steering
 🏡 How to handle client questions about schools and safety with confidence
 🤝 What this means for how we show up as trusted advisors

Because here’s the truth — buyers are going to ask these questions. And now, HUD has clarified that providing objective, consistent information about crime rates and school quality is allowed as long as it’s done without discrimination. 

So instead of avoiding the conversation… let’s learn how to have it the right way.

If you’ve ever felt stuck between being helpful and staying compliant, this episode is going to give you clarity, confidence, and a way forward.

Resource links :

https://hoodline.com/2026/04/feds-greenlight-realtors-to-talk-crime-and-schools-again/?utm_source=chatgpt.comhttps://nypost.com/2026/04/24/us-news/hud-encourages-real-estate-industry-to-share-neighborhood-school-and-crime-data-after-listing-platforms-stopped-under-biden-wrongly-equated-with-racial-discrimination/?utm_source=chatgpt.com

Like what you heard? Make sure to follow and review the podcast, and shoot us a message with your thoughts at 

contractsandchaos@gmail.com

@YourHomeGirl_CLT 

@Real.Life.Brenna

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:19

Go and then you're gonna or not hit go and you're gonna walk me through this and we're gonna walk through it together because okay we are we're recording now so we are talking about a fair housing, it's not a change, it's an adjustment.

SPEAKER_03 0:33

It is a change because previously HUD said no. Yeah, that's true, or interpreted it as no. So this is a reinterpretation, I think, is is what it is.

SPEAKER_01 0:46

I think that's I think that's a good I think that's a good word to use reinterpretation.

SPEAKER_03 0:50

So what we are discussing, y'all, if you haven't heard, because there was another oh so for reference, we are recording this Wednesday, April 29th. So if you are in the industry, we all know what happened Monday, April 27th. Um and if you don't know, Google it, but it had to do with one firm buying another and the whole world fell apart. So the day before that, or the week before, HUD actually did a um, they wrote a letter to a colleague, or there's some official form or name for what that is. And it's all about what we are and are not allowed to say to clients based on fair housing. So and the gist real quick is and we'll go through it don't give your opinion, give resources. Yes, I think that's the best one sentence sum it up. Don't give your opinion, don't or provide resources.

unknown 1:43

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 1:44

So and I think that most of us have been providing resources in just like the in the ask you don't think that people are sharing like goodschools.org or to look out. You can't see, I was told in one training that it's one of those things that you're you have to say, that's I that's information I can't provide, right? Like when they're like, Oh, did somebody die in the house? Well, first of all, I have no idea. Second of all, it doesn't matter for us right now.

SPEAKER_03 2:13

I was always trained to say something along the lines of, I'm sorry, but that's a fair housing violation, and to ensure that we don't cross that line, my best advice is to Google it because I was told even providing a resource could be seen as steering because resources can be so skewed.

SPEAKER_01 2:34

That's a good point though, because like even sharing like um greatschools.org or niche.com or something like that where they're it is I mean, it's essentially they poll people, but depending on who responds or anything like that, it is one of those situations. It depends who you ask. There's people who hate where I live, there's people who speak nothing but good things about it, you know?

SPEAKER_03 2:56

So yeah, it is and same here, like I was in a meeting yesterday, uh um committee meeting that we're working on changing. We're actually like our job is to change the story of this city, and we were talking about that yesterday, and I was like, it all depends on who you talk to. Yep, well, I think even in the room, looking at the reactions to some of the things, I was like There were differing opinions right there, and it was yeah. So, what were specifically guys? It's crime and schools. Yep. HUD has come out and said we can talk about it now, but you have to do it correctly. So what does correctly mean?

SPEAKER_01 3:37

Right.

SPEAKER_03 3:38

So what they actually what HUD actually said was you do not violate the Fair Housing Act by discussing crime rates and school quality, but only if the information is shared consistently and without discriminatory intent. So if one client asks you about crime and you answer it one way, and another client asks you about crime, you have to answer it the same way. This is the the I think the best um comparison or example I can give is like when I fill out my agency, whether it's a listing or a buyer, that protection period, mine's always 90 days.

SPEAKER_01 4:22

Yep, mine too.

SPEAKER_03 4:23

Always because then no one can claim or you know, like stuff like that. So you have to be consistent and non-discriminatory in the way you convey this information.

SPEAKER_01 4:35

And I think that this wasn't originally it wasn't in an effort to hide areas with high crime or bad schools, right? But the same thing, they're just changing it a little bit to make it more efficient and able for you to deliver the information. But again, people there's a fine line that people walk of like I don't think you'll like that neighborhood, right?

SPEAKER_03 4:58

Right, and what and why would you say that?

SPEAKER_01 5:00

Like one of them say that.

SPEAKER_03 5:02

Why would you say that? What I may like, someone else may not like. Or like, let's let's make it super simple. The word walkability. Don't use it. And I know that's not the topic here, but it's like a very similar example. What you consider walkable, I may not consider walkable. Right. What I may consider a safe neighborhood, like I would walk, I know my neighbor has problems, but I I would walk around it. There's lots of people who do. Someone else may not. So that's where it's they aren't out to ban information. They're banning discrimination.

SPEAKER_01 5:38

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 5:39

Big difference there.

SPEAKER_01 5:40

Yes, because people it does. It's it's such a and it shouldn't be, it should be very black and white. Because and here I think I think this will be easy to implement in some ways, right? So in our guides or in like those things that we hand out to the community, if you're giving the same information in those things out or in your uh buyer agency presentation or anything like that, that's very consistent. That's that's easy. If somebody has an issue, be like, I give this out, it's print like it is. It this is on every single thing. It's the he said she said situations that people are gonna get themselves in trouble with.

SPEAKER_03 6:15

It's the removing the opinion. Don't give your opinion, give facts, give resources. You know, like if I took someone to a restaurant and they said, you know, what do you like about the restaurant? That's my opinion. But if they say what's the best selling item on the menu, that's a fact. Right. That server can or manager, whoever can be like, oh, we sell 15 of these every 10 minutes.

SPEAKER_01 6:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 6:43

That's a fact. So and I think that the safety, like for us here, the the CYA is give them resource. And like you said, give them resources, but put like especially have a one-page PDF, have an infographic, have um a page in your handouts or in your emails that's QR codes or links. Provide multiples, maybe, so it's not just one. You know, you could say, here's three websites that all track crime in the area, here's three different websites to track the schools in the area, here's a link to the local Facebook groups. Here's ten of them because each one sways a a little differently.

SPEAKER_01 7:22

You know, God, Facebook groups are the devil, but it's hilarious because there's one page that was like hickory, um, like the good, bad, and the ugly, right? And they changed the name because people were complaining that there was too much hatred on the page because people were just like sharing all bad stuff.

SPEAKER_03 7:39

Right. We have a page here, it's called Positive Growth for Downtown Gastonia. Love it. And the committee I'm on kind of monitors it. Um and someone there they just opened a new section of our greenway. And some people were very excited. Some people were like, Oh, you're all gonna get bugged and raped. Don't go there. Oh god. So one of our committee members literally got on his bike and rode the whole length of it one day and counted what he saw. He was like, There was no homeless population. I didn't see anyone get mugged. I saw three snakes, I saw four dying families. Right. But like that's that's the thing, is like you have to make it data-driven.

SPEAKER_01 8:21

Again, we have to remove ourselves from the situation because here, here I feel like this is a good example, right? I live on 30 acres, right? I don't want 30 acres. We well, between us and my mother, our fields meet up. So with 30.

SPEAKER_03 8:37

But I was up there, I didn't, I was like, I don't know who lives anywhere, and I'm trying to surprise her, so I'm in and out. Someday I'm gonna come up and be like, Yeah, okay, explain this.

SPEAKER_01 8:43

We we where we are is like a five-acre chunk of the rest of it. But it's a lot of space, right? I don't want to live in an hoa community that I can touch the houses on both sides, right? I wouldn't want to live there. But there's a lot of people that seek those communities, right? I feel like that's a good example, but in my opinion, I don't love it. Like that's that's not something that I would suggest, right? But that's why that's why this is so important to just be like, here's the data, here's the information, not you wouldn't like this side of town.

SPEAKER_03 9:21

Right. Or like it also part of this was a liability, right? People don't want to be liable. Giving that third-party resource removes a liability. And to me, I kind of think it of it as like I always give three lenders.

SPEAKER_01 9:40

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 9:40

Or more than one, because if I say this is my only preferred, then and they don't get the best rate or something, well, I'm the one that recommended them.

SPEAKER_02 9:49

Yep.

SPEAKER_03 9:50

I will be giving multiple resources, you know. Here you go. And you know what's funny? I had this conversation with a client last night. I was like, I can't talk to you about this. And then I got home and found this. I was like, oh shit. Hold on. Yeah, I can. I can, but I'm not prepared yet. Hold on.

SPEAKER_01 10:04

Um the biggest battle that we'll have, or some people will have is removing the the opinions, right? Because some people's opinions and feelings are stronger than fact in a lot of situations, and that's where it becomes a problem. But giving a resource, like, I can't think of a website that I've used as a resource for something like this that doesn't carry that disclaimer in it that says, like, we only provide the information that we have, you know what I mean? Take this with a grain of salt.

SPEAKER_03 10:30

I have to ask you for some advice on resources because I've always had the mindset of I don't want to provide the resource because what if it's skewed and it comes back on me? So now I'm like, oh, I gotta go find these resources and figure this one out. Um, because I've always told people, I'm really sorry, but you're gonna have to Google that. Like that, I could lose my license. I'm not, you know, I don't want to accidentally make you think one thing or the other. Yeah. Um, because something, something as simple as saying, yeah, I live in this neighborhood. I mean, that's what's what's the hidden ends up split.

SPEAKER_01 11:05

What's the hidden message behind that? You know what I mean? I'm not saying that there is, but people, whatever people perceive you're saying is goodness. Just give, just come up with a resource and provide it consistently.

SPEAKER_03 11:21

Maybe you need if you're someone like me who there are specific resources for those areas, I may have to build out a couple pages and change it, what I'm providing per client. Or you can do the big ones and just be like, here you go, and then you know, the rest is on you. But here's some national resources or some some that cover, and if you want to drill down more, I would always call the local police department and ask them what they prov what they recommend as their or even just a lot of them put their annual reports online. So here you go. Go pull up your local police department.

SPEAKER_01 11:54

Well, say, and the biggest thing too is I feel like it is kind of an awkward conversation whenever we've had to have it. They're like, Oh, how's the crime in the area? And you're like, actually, I can't tell. And it always when you say like, actually, like I can't due to fair housing issues, like I can't share that information with you. That's something that you have to go out and research and look up on your own. Sounds like maybe they should look it up, right? Like whenever I see it, I always feel like they're gonna think that this is a terrible area when I'm like, I can't, I can't tell you. I'm gonna need you.

SPEAKER_03 12:26

I know I know people think that about my neighborhood. And I'm like, honestly, it's not the people in my neighborhood causing the issues, it's the people that come through, the people who live here just don't spend a lot of money on houses.

SPEAKER_01 12:38

I think that it was just something that buyers felt like we were evasive or are evasive about it. I mean, because we we are right now, and it's just not it's one of those areas that I feel like we can be more helpful and supportive. Yes, they can Google it. There you they can also Google like oh my god, what's something else stupid that comes up in a real estate transaction that we get?

SPEAKER_03 13:00

This is a bad builder, right? Okay, so like ten people in Arkansas had an issue. This is yes, the same big name builder, but they use a different local builder with different local standards and you know, and the other there are issues with some, and this is a totally different topic for a totally other day.

SPEAKER_01 13:21

There is issues with big track builders, there's issues with small one-home local builders, right? The the scale happens, I think. Like they're they're building hundreds of thousands of houses across the country. If they didn't have a bad review, that'd be sketchier than them having a three-star review from however many hundred of reviews that they have, but they build hundreds of thousands of houses.

SPEAKER_03 13:47

It's the same. I get like cars to me are the same way. I will never, never buy a Mazda again because I had a horrible experience, and lots of people did with the car I bought, and Mazda didn't handle it well. I have a good friend who loves Mazdas and seeks out the same model and literally will like fly to a different state to get what he wants. You never need to be a little bit more than that.

SPEAKER_01 14:08

Well, and that's why fact versus opinion is so important in this in this situation. So we want to be able to um provide that public data and say Google's great, chat GPT's great, like for resources. So even if you're telling them, you wouldn't use ChatGPT to pull it up?

SPEAKER_03 14:27

I would not. Chat GPT tends to skew based on other information you've given it previously or questions you've asked, or things you've asked it to write for you. It's also been proven to pull very incorrect data. Um I would go Google and straight to like the local sources, your police department.

SPEAKER_01 14:47

Um, you know, yeah, their websites, their websites are super Yeah, the school district website.

SPEAKER_03 14:52

Like I would go I Google to find that, maybe other resources that pull from those, but I would not recommend AI for this because it's been proven to skew based on what you've already fed it, um and not necessarily pull accurate data.

SPEAKER_01 15:08

Yeah, I was not thinking it for it to like type out like these communities and this percentage of crime rate, but more like the websites. Like where can I find information? But yeah, I wouldn't. Because again, yeah, I wouldn't want it to type up that information. I've asked it to type up whatever. Let's say, oh, I did I try to CMA, right, with Chat GPT. And the way that it used homes that were closed four years ago, I was like, sir, chatty G, man, you are not Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 15:36

This no, and I've done it too. Like, but what I do when I do that is I feed it the data to say, here's here's the listing, here's the MLS information, help me figure this out because this one's at 500, this one's identical two blocks over and was 400. What am I not seeing? What's the difference? Yeah. What what's happening? Um, so yeah, consistency is your prep is your protection in this same resources every time.

SPEAKER_01 16:05

That's why I think you're I think your best bet is to create a resource, right? Yeah, and then if they if it comes up that they're asking to show and be like, oh, let me go ahead, I'm gonna text you this resource, right? And that way they have it, it's the same thing. So you're not trying to have the same conversations about it or keep up with the the information in the back of your head that you're just like, oh, that's a great question.

unknown 16:28

Right.

SPEAKER_03 16:28

Let me send this. And like red flags, I think we've kind of covered this, but like describing your neighborhood subjectively using coded language, like good area, up and coming, family friendly.

SPEAKER_01 16:39

That's like that's like the MLS listing saying, buyers agents, welcome. Wink, wink.

SPEAKER_03 16:44

Right. See our more information, nudge nudge.

SPEAKER_01 16:49

We know what you mean. Cut it out.

SPEAKER_03 16:51

Like, don't do that. Um, so let's let's go through some real life. Okay, so we did one. Is this a safe area? The wrong answer is well, you know, I listened to the scanner and I've heard calls over here.

SPEAKER_01 17:06

I wouldn't feel comfortable walking with my children.

SPEAKER_03 17:09

Right? I mean, I wouldn't come out at night. Don't leave your or one of my neighbors when I moved in told me to um never go further than my front porch without a gun.

SPEAKER_01 17:18

Well, this is it. These are what not to say, you guys. Don't write these down.

SPEAKER_03 17:23

You do say when a client asks, is this a safe area? You say, you know what? I don't know. But here's the resource or here's the link to the local police department and their annual reporting broken down by neighborhood.

SPEAKER_01 17:36

I don't know that I'd even say I don't know. I would say, what a great question. Here is, you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_03 17:42

Because I like the rephrasing of that.

SPEAKER_01 17:44

I don't know, makes it sound like you don't know, right? And like, why are you the expert showing me these houses? Like you're the one for this area and you don't know what the crime rates are, right? So I think I would say what a great question.

SPEAKER_03 17:56

I like I like the rephrasing of that. Okay, so relocation client. Where should I avoid? How do we redirect them without shutting down?

SPEAKER_01 18:07

Well, what you don't say is well just these are these are hard, right? Because an I try to make it about what they're looking for, right?

SPEAKER_03 18:19

Like, yes, right?

SPEAKER_01 18:21

If they are moving here for a job that's in Charlotte, right? I'd be like, listen, these areas that are close to 16 and I 40 are easy commutes, like that, those kinds of things. Because we can share that information. That's like right, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 18:35

You know, like I and we can share that based on experience of I've had to commute from there before. Right, right. If you want a 20-minute drive home, don't live here. Like, and and the the data I'm gonna do.

SPEAKER_01 18:46

And if you have to drive, if you have to work in Mooresville, live somewhere that you don't have to use 150, okay? Because you will be you'll either have to leave really early or be gone so late. Right. It's one of those things. Um but it can't be, oh, well, you know, the south side of this specific industry like town, or we can't don't do that. We it's not even we can't. You shouldn't. Right.

SPEAKER_03 19:08

You shouldn't for many reasons.

SPEAKER_01 19:10

You shouldn't want to, you shouldn't feel like you need to, right? Um, and again, I have a resource that goes over other statistics like schools and things like that. Send them the same resource, right?

SPEAKER_03 19:21

Like if they say we want the best school district in the area, well, I know right here, everyone thinks that's Fort Mill. One, I have no idea because I don't have kids, I don't care. Two, I'm not I wasn't allowed to talk about it, I'm not allowed to talk about it. So I haven't like So I don't care. But I know all my friends who have kids talk about it. And I know that you know, I see in MLS listings double check enrollment availability because there's a moratorium. Because so many people are trying to move in that district. So I'm not gonna say that to them. I'm going to say, here's the state school ranking website. I recommend you go here and look at it.

SPEAKER_01 20:01

Yeah, like what a great question.

SPEAKER_03 20:03

Here is what a lovely question. I'll freaking know, but here you go. But uh I mean, and and part of my not knowing is because I wanted that six six degrees of separation. I don't know. Um, because and also like what I may consider a good school, someone else may not. I would love as along with standard, you know, math, science, English, I want a f a strong arts program. Like if I have kids. That would be important to me. But someone else may be like, no, we're all engineers and we don't do art. So that would be I don't know. It's it's it's very subjective, very opinionative, very personal. What is important, what means something to someone. Um I think one that's not in here and that is is something that's going to come up that people will ask about neighborhoods, especially based in the south. Well, and it's not it's not education and crime, but it it could come up about is this a good neighborhood? Because I had a client ask me this once. There's no mosques nearby, right? I don't know. I mean, there's a Baptist church on every corner, but I don't but I think that that's on the line here of like, okay, that's it's not crime in schools, but it could be we want a neighborhood with a a strong whatever religious presence.

SPEAKER_01 21:32

That's something that you are wanting to have in your immediate like area. I suggest when you come into town to take a look at these properties that we're touring, you plan an extra day or spend the morning before driving around and getting to know the areas so you know exactly.

SPEAKER_03 21:48

It's the same with grocery stores. Like I have clients who are they're not relocating like a far distance, but it's an hour away. So one of our things is we map out grocery stores before we go look at a house. We map out pharmacies, we map out hospitals.

SPEAKER_01 22:02

Okay, they're getting they're getting older and they're like, we don't want to be more than 20 minutes from a hospital. Okay, great. We can figure that out.

SPEAKER_03 22:10

Right. That's not fair housing. But if it's I had clients who said, and if you've worked with this. Group of people, you as soon as I say this, you'll know the front door had to face between north and east.

SPEAKER_01 22:24

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_03 22:26

No, nothing else. So that was one thing. But they also wanted a neighborhood where as many of the people impossible as possible in there preferred north to east facing doors. You know what's funny?

SPEAKER_01 22:41

I can't tell you that.

unknown 22:42

Right.

SPEAKER_01 22:43

I literally was like, well, that's the thing. Like, I'm just like, I mean, download a compass app. Hold on. Let me. I don't know. The sun is there. It's like two o'clock in the afternoon. So and it came from over there. So Right.

SPEAKER_03 22:57

Well, and don't also, we were looking at new construction. Do not rely on their map and the compass on the map because it's quite often wrong.

SPEAKER_01 23:05

It is very often wrong.

SPEAKER_03 23:07

But that was that's to me similar here. It's like I I can't tell you that data. So I literally had to say to them, I'm sure you're in some social groups, um, or whatever your religious faith is, or you know, other organizations where you're spending time with the people you're looking for. Yep. I would ask them. Or if there's something that visually you can tell, like the way a door is decorated. Um you know what theirs was a high percentage of electric vehicles in the driveway.

SPEAKER_01 23:38

Oh, that's funny. I had one at our Airbnb that wanted to cancel their reservation because of a specific flag that was flying from our neighbor's porch.

SPEAKER_03 23:46

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 23:48

Like made vacation reservations and wanted to cancel because when they got there, which they they couldn't. I mean they could, but they wouldn't get a refund because I I have no control over that, you know? Right. But they wanted to to cancel because of a flag in the neighbor's yard.

SPEAKER_03 24:03

But things like that truly make people uncomfortable. Where was I yesterday or the day before? Um talking to another agent. Like she had to go ask the neighbors to take it down because people were showing up for showings. Nope, we're not, we're not buying this.

SPEAKER_01 24:23

I had a listing like that once, and it was always like the feedback that was and the sellers were like, we've asked them to take it down and we live there, and it never happened. So it's not happening now. Okay, let's wrap this up. Here's a couple of things that we think that you should do moving forward. First of all, we will we can put links in the description um with resources that we have uh about the information that came out from HUD. Second step, I do think I strongly, strongly believe to be able to keep everything that you're sharing consistent, build out that resource.

SPEAKER_00 24:54

Yes, right?

SPEAKER_01 24:55

Whether it's county, town, individual like pages for each area you cover, whatever that looks like statewide, so they can access that information, put that together. Audit your language. Um, we never should have been using opinions. If you've been using opinions, here's your slap on the wrist, don't do it again. Um, and just replace it with this resource, right? Because that's only going to help you stay consistent and your clients to know that you like you're just like, oh, what a great question. That is if if you take anything from this podcast today, when somebody asks you a question that we don't really like discuss in specific specificity, is that it specif specifically, I'm gonna need you to say, what a great question. Here is a resource that has some websites locally that you can find that information out for yourself. If you can't find that information in this resource, Google it.

SPEAKER_03 25:49

Yes, and document it same process every time. Same way, like I always send buyers the same template email with here's the documents may we may encounter because I don't want to print 45 pages. Same thing. This I may even just do a template email that says, as we're working through this, you know, your buying process, here's questions that often come up that I'm I have to be careful or no, I'm not allowed to give my opinion on. Here's the resources I recommend so that you can do the research.

SPEAKER_01 26:23

That's great. If you have like an email flow that you use when you get a new buyer, like a new agency signed, put something like that in there. And that way you also have it like dated when it's emailed out, like you have that you shared that resource, you know?

SPEAKER_03 26:36

So yeah, and so like if they ever question it, like I had a client this week say we didn't agree to a survey or to pay for and I was like, here's the form you signed, and here's all the emails we ordered you said to order this, so yeah, same thing, you're covering your butt, you know. Um, if it's a text message, maybe even just screenshot it, save it as a PDF into your closing file so that if anything ever gets brought up, nope. Here's the conversation we had. Um I think if my closing thought is if you're still saying I can't talk about that, you're not protecting yourself, you're just letting people know you don't understand the rules. The rules are not.

SPEAKER_01 27:19

And people might not people might not know that the rules have changed yet because again, this got kind of flooded out by other news in the market right now. But I think that being that resource is only going to continue to set you apart. And this is where we're talking about this year, this is where the gap happens, right? When you start pulling away from people that are falling out of the industry. So go build that resource. Um, and we will have links in the show notes for you guys to pull up these articles from HUD, and we will see you next week.

SPEAKER_03 27:47

See you guys next week.

SPEAKER_01 27:48

Bye, guys.