Restoration Pros Unplugged

Your Data Is Broken & Why AI Can't Save You "Yet," with Andrew Wirick of Docusketch

• Clinton James • Season 1 • Episode 61

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If your field techs are juggling four, five, even eleven different apps on a single water mitigation job — you've got a data problem. And that data problem is going to follow you everywhere: estimating, compliance, team performance, and especially AI.

In this episode, Clinton James sits down with Andrew Wirick, VP of Product at DocuSketch, to talk about one of the most overlooked challenges in restoration right now — fragmented field data. Andrew's spent the last eight months in the trenches with restoration companies across the country, riding along with techs and talking directly to owners about what's actually breaking down in their workflows. What he found might surprise you.

Here's what you'll take away from this conversation:

- Why the average restoration company uses 4.5 apps just to capture data on a single water mitigation job — and what that's costing your team

- Where fragmentation hurts most — it's not where most owners think

- Why AI can't fix bad data — and what actually happens when you layer AI on top of incomplete field documentation (hint: it's called a hallucination, and it's bad for compliance)

- Two simple habits techs can start today — two 360 shots per room and 10 extra seconds of photos — that will protect your margins and reduce callbacks

- Why true industry-wide standardization is still years away — and what you can do right now without waiting for the whole industry to catch up

Andrew also shares what DocuSketch is building to make data capture more intuitive in the field, how their partnership with Verisk is helping connect the dots between capture and estimating, and what the future of restoration tech could look like.

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Want to connect with Andrew or see what DocuSketch has been building? Watch the webinar replay covering their latest product vision — including AI-powered floor plan measurements and intuitive field capture — at https://www.docusketch.com/post/instant-floor-plan-estimates-launch-event-webinar-replay

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Subscribe to Restoration Pros Unplugged and visit restorationprosunplugged.com to catch every episode.

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Running a restoration company and want to get more jobs from your online marketing? Book a free discovery call with Water Restoration Marketing at https://waterrestorationmarketing.com/discovery-call/

SPEAKER_00

Where do you see the fragmentation hurting companies the most? Like is it field execution? Is it estimating? Is it compliance communication? Like, or is it somewhere else?

SPEAKER_01

Uh we provide a number of software and hardware solutions in data capture, in sketching, and in estimating for restoration and insurance. Uh some of the carrier side of the market as well.

SPEAKER_00

We provide some products there too. A lot of restoration companies are sitting like with disconnected information, and that creates problems on the estimating side, the compliance side, team adoption side, and now AI just throws a whole nother curveball in the mix.

SPEAKER_01

So, yeah, that was my huge surprise. Um, how how big this problem really was from day one. And so a lot of what our our product strategy is kind of Docky Sketch has been focused on helping how do we alleviate that? How do we make how do we make that problem less of a problem at data capture, but then throughout the life of a restoration job and all of the different systems it needs to go through?

SPEAKER_00

Welcome to the Restoration Pros Unplugged Podcast. In each episode, we're going to bring you insightful interviews and discussions with top restoration industry leaders. We're also going to delve into their business, the strategies that made them successful, and most importantly, the valuable lessons they learned along the way. I'm your host, Clinton James. I'm also the Chief Marketing Officer at Water Restoration Marketing. We're a digital marketing agency dedicated to helping restoration companies nationwide secure more high-value water jobs. Now, this show, it aims to provide you with the knowledge and tools you need to excel in the restoration industry. So sit back, relax, and enjoy the show. And welcome everybody to another episode of the Restoration Pros Unplug Podcast. As always, I am your host, Clinton James, Chief Marketing Officer over at Water Restoration Marketing. Um, today we're gonna have a little bit of an interesting conversation, right? Uh we're gonna talk a little bit about a big tech problem in the restoration industry, right? It's not that we don't have great tools and great technology to use, but we have a genuine data process, right? What teams use, uh, when they use too many of these tools, they're they're disconnected, inconsistent processes, and they really complete create incomplete, messy, and hard-to-use job data, right? Now that makes it even harder for you guys to improve your operations, um, harder for you guys to train new team members, and a lot harder for you guys to take advantage of the benefit of AI, right? So standardization will definitely take some time, right? But restoration companies can start improving that now, and they can start creating consistent documentation habits, reducing tool sprawl, and focusing on clean data capture, especially by those technicians that are out in the field. And to have a conversation about technology, I thought I'd bring on a special guest. Um, first time to the Restoration Pros Unplug podcast. I have the VP of product over at DocuSketch, one of our favorite technologies. I've got Andrew Wirick. Am I pronouncing the last name correctly? It's pronounced Wyrick. Wyrick. A big, a big eye at the front. All right. I'm probably gonna butcher that like two or three times during this conversation, Andrew. So please don't mind me. Um, thank you for being a guest on the podcast today.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, absolutely. Pleasure. Pleasure to be here, Clinton. Pleasure to talk to our common customers in this audience about uh data, which is sounds like a boring subject, but when we talk about capturing a field and all the challenges the tech goes through today, um, and the folks who try to stitch things together in the back office and make it all work, I think we can uh there's a lot of pain there that we can help solve. And hopefully we'll get into a lot of that today.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I mean, obviously every restoration company is using technologies today, right? But but data, like just collecting it, um, it it that can create its own problem, right? If you're not collecting it in a way that actually helps your business, actually helps your technicians, and there are literally so many tools in the field and in the office, and a lot of restoration companies are sitting like with disconnected information. And that creates problems on the estimating side, the compliance side, team adoption side. And now AI just throws a whole nother curveball into the mix. Um, before we get too deep into conversation, though, Andrew, tell us a little bit about yourself. Because like no 10-year-old, 12-year-old kid wakes up and says, Man, I want to really get into technology in the home service space.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, absolutely. Uh, so I started in actually the general contracting space uh a number of years ago. Uh, spent a number of years as head of product at a company that did, yeah, contractor um home work management technology and financial management technology. So, really like core business process technology. This is for general contractors. I really became interested in the restoration space really around the turn of last year. I joined Docu Sketch about eight months ago. So a lot of uh a lot of times I feel like I just saved a holiday in last night in terms of just my my experience within restoration specifically. Um, but I've actually spent a ton of time uh in the field. One of the first things I did when I started was spend a lot of time in the field with techs, actually going through jobs, uh living the experience on site. I think uh there's you all get this, there's a number of smells that I'll never forget. Uh they're super visceral now. And so when I hear about certain types of jobs, I actually have a it's kind of almost like a smell in my nose. But that's that's good. I I need that as a head of product. So yeah, I've been doing this for about eight months now with Dr. Sketch, loving every minute of it, loving this customer base. Um yeah, so that's a little bit about me. And then Dr. Sketch, just real briefly, uh, hopefully most of y'all are familiar with us. Uh, we provide a number of software and hardware solutions in data capture, in sketching and in estimating for restoration and insurance. Uh, some of the carrier side of the market as well, we provide some products there too.

SPEAKER_00

So, Andrew, for from your view, why do you think data standardization has become such an important topic right now, specifically in restoration?

SPEAKER_01

So interestingly, Clinton, when I started talking to customers right after I started and started doing some of those on-site visits, I expected a couple of problems to be from the mind in terms of like, what do you think the busy b biggest challenges are? At least we're I asked this question of owners, of supervisors or project managers. And surprisingly to me, the number one answer by far, country mouth of everything else, was fragmentation. Um, and even a couple of people who use the word fragmentation, which is like you've really been thinking about this problem if you're using the word fragmentation. What they were describing is there's just there's too many darn apps in the field. And uh so I did a little bit of straw poll while I've been doing this. And so just of 36 of our customers, I've asked about this problem specifically, or just water mitigation jobs. How many apps are you using to just do the basic data capture on site through just let's just go through the drying process, say let's not even go through reconstruction. So just we're just focused on that part of the process. The average answer of 36 is four and a half, four and a half apps to just capture the data.

SPEAKER_00

You're telling me a technician, a technician on site needs to use know how to use at least four apps.

SPEAKER_01

4.5 apps. Okay, all right. Uh the the the top of that range was 11. 11. That's insane. 11 apps. I mean, I can't imagine trying to go through those different apps for the circumstances and trying to pick the right app for the right situation. I mean, you're just you're spending so many mental cycles not on the job. You're you're it's so that that problem was really very obvious once we got to that number. And yeah, so that's that's a a huge problem still in industry today. And of course, that just is gonna permeate all the way through the process. Uh, how do you actually capture the data? How do you bring the data back together on these different systems to tell a unified story of what is happening on that project? And so, yeah, that was my huge surprise. Um, how how big this problem really was from day one. And so a lot of what our product strategy has been a Docu Sketch has been focused on helping how do we alleviate that? How do we make how do we make that problem less of a problem at data capture, but then throughout the life of a restoration job and all of the different systems it needs to go through?

SPEAKER_00

I I appreciate that you spent the time in the field and you surveyed clients to get that data. Now that you've got that kind of holistic view of what's going on right now with technicians in the field, where do you see the fragmentation hurting companies the most? Like, is it field execution? Is it estimating, is it compliance, communication, like, or is it somewhere else?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I think the word that immediately comes to mind are gaps. And the gaps can appear right from the start because the tech in the field is using two, three, or four different tools to try and capture different pieces of data. Okay. What did you what did you capture is one question, what did you miss is another. And because the the data is already fragmented between systems, it's often a supervisor's job to try and figure out did we capture, are we doing the job the right way? Like, have we stoked this thing properly? And in order to do that, trying to stitch that data back together and tell that story. So the very first and biggest problem I see is that the very first gap is right there at the capture experience for the supervisor. I did a couple of ride-alongs, Clinton, where it it inevitably the technology that actually is chosen to deal with this problem is a telecom. Because there are so many different systems involved that eventually a number of our customers who are doing a great job given the situation they're in, they just have literally a supervisor on the phone. They've got the tech in the van at the site on the phone. They're going through these three or four different systems in the back office, and they're trying to go through a big checklist to make sure that it all fits together. Inevitably, they're the ones responsible for stitching it back. And so those gaps is just creating this really uh disconnected, non-streamlined, for sure, and painful experience for that supervisor. And that's the person who really, I think, is that that individual, and and y'all that are that are watching and listening know this. And I've learned this, that individual, that supervisor, that project manager, that ops manager, they are such a key role in these businesses. They're usually experienced, and they're just they're they're the ones that have been left with trying to stitch the stitch all this data back together and make sure they've got a unified job on their hands and they've got things scoped properly.

SPEAKER_00

Now, Andrew, it's not a decade ago, it's not 20 years ago where restorers are like, oh, technology, stay away, that's bad, right? We've got so many restoration companies that go to these industry events, they're investing in technology. Why do these companies still end up like with disconnected systems, even when they're really trying to like do the do the right thing and modernize their business?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. So I think by and large, it's a it's a marketer technology. The disservice has really been done on the technology company side. And that's and that's and Dock and Sketch is a part of that side of the market. What we, and I'm talking about the entire technology space and the providers of these solutions have not done a good job of, is to either provide breakpoint solutions and say, let's, but let's all work together and create really good integrations so that the data can flow back between these systems seamlessly, or create a solution that has great capture, but then allows that captured data to permeate through other systems as well. And if you don't have one of those two things, what you end up with is what we have, I think, in the market, which is a combination of individual systems that do a great job at maybe one thing, but aren't talking to the other systems very well. Okay. Or a system that attempts to be an all-in-one solution, but maybe doesn't provide a very open platform where those really good open, where those really good point solutions can bring data in. You know, they do their specific job a really good way. So without that, without that ecosystem that is that is really powerful and that allows that data interchange between those systems, this is what you end up with, where as a restoration pro, I can only imagine trying to make these purchasing choices where you're you're trying to get to that unified system. You know fragmentation is a problem, uh, but you've got um you've got some carrier requirements over here that say you have to use this one system, so there's another challenge even then. And then you've got these other systems over here that do a really great job, but none of them can talk to each other. And so that that is really just uh a circumstance of the way the industry has grown up. I think we the era we are entering with AI is going to change a lot of those dynamics. And we talk about that for a few minutes, but I I I do think that I don't want to this is I I think about the restoration pro going through a conference and trying to look at all these systems. I mean, it's a nearly impossible task to be able to stitch these things together in your purchasing decisions and know they're all gonna fit and the data's gonna make sense.

SPEAKER_00

You mean that five minutes that they stand at the table in front of that technology vendor in between going and doing continued education uh courses there, that's not enough time for them to really figure out what's the best tool for them to use for documentation. Turns out that's a crazy concept. All right, Andrew, you you brought up two of the most polarizing letters in the restoration industry right now. Uh there's three letter combination, TPAs. That's probably the most polarizing uh set of letters in restoration. But the next one right now, certainly has been for the last 12 months, is AI, right? So there's a lot of talk about AI right now and what it means to restores. Why do you believe, or do you believe, that the restoration industry has to solve the data quality problem before it can really benefit from AI?

SPEAKER_01

I think this industry, more than most industries, has to have a certain amount of the data quality problem solved for AI to be fully leveraged to solve really fundamental problems. Okay. Like and estimating, let's say, as one example of a problem to solve where bringing the data in, creating an estimate, why do I say that? It's inevitably, this isn't just work where you need to have accurate scope and you need to perform the job well and you need to have great customer service, but you also have a third party often involved who is has their own requirements, you've got a compliance process to follow. So with all of those partners working off of what is really just a common job scope that is disconnected in four and a half systems, you have to be able to bring the data in to transparently say, This is the scope, this is why this scope makes sense, this is how this scope follows your policies as a carrier, and this is why it makes sense for you, the homeowner, too. And in order to do that, solve all of those simultaneously, you have to be able to not just have AI that can look at a few pieces of data and project what a scope should be. That black box in the middle, the decision making itself, if it's just a black box, how can we prove compliance to a carrier? How can you actually connect the data to the scope in a way that allows me to say, yeah, this is the actual work that needed done? And by the way, here's all the documented evidence that we did the work too. Those those pieces, that transparency between the data and the results of an estimate, is where we think in this industry, especially, there has to be a quality aspect. The data has to be accessible and transparently used by AI in order for it to really fundamentally solve the problem of estimating, to just give one example for the industry.

SPEAKER_00

Okay, so you guys have probably hundreds or thousands of restorers that you guys are working with right now. I've only got 130 of them, but I tell you, there's a subset, they all think they're AI geniuses, right? So they've got the Claude account, they've got their projects. Um, they went and bought the Mac mini and open claw and set up their own AI agents to help their efficiencies in the business. The problem is is that AI is being layered on top of inconsistent and incomplete field documentation. Um what is your thought on that?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, absolutely. And you use the word to incomplete field documentation. So it's not only inconsistent, but it's incomplete, right? We talked about gaps, gaps in the data. Those same gaps will exist for AI. And it's either gonna plug the gap with with an AI. There's a term for that. It's called a hallucination. It's going to take something that doesn't exist and act like it exists, like a photo that says you actually had the equipment where you said you had it. It may make it up. The property had it. So one of my job, the property had to dry itself somehow. So it's gonna say clearly, clearly the equipment was there. So, right, but is compliance gonna love that? Not so much. So that's where uh yeah, these these AI tools, and God bless the folks who are out there like trying stuff by the way. Like, I am boy, boy, do I I empathize to do the same thing and got my own Mac mini. So, you know, and and and these tools are so powerful, and and it's such an exciting time to be trying to build uh new technologies and new ways. But yeah, that data, that data capture piece, if the data is inconsistent, if it's missing, that's where these AI tools go from I think a little bit risky to almost dangerous. And what I mean dangerous, dangerous for your business because it's it is that hallucination that's actually it you're gonna know, you're gonna know when you get to compliance, when it's too late, when the when you did you don't have the documentation. So that's where like for us at DocuSketch, that's where we got when when that light bulb went off, like, oh gosh, like it's the data that's not there. But where we're focusing our energy is how do we make sure that we get that data so that we understand what data is missing? So rather than hallucinate, we can say, well, actually, you know, if we can still get, if we still gather that data, if there is still time, can we get messages back to the field? Can we get the data gathered so that we can solve that incomplete problem we just described?

SPEAKER_00

Since you've got a whole team over there at DocuSketch, and you guys are singularly focused on like creating that great data capture experience there. Can you tell the the the restoration pro that's listening, like how should they really think about AI in practical terms instead of just the hype that they see, right? The videos that they see online. It's a talking point in in Restoration Rebels and all these uh uh restoration groups on Facebook. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Um I'll say two things. Uh I I I think of it in two different flavors. One is gonna be very purpose-built AI for companies like built by companies like DocuSketch. I'll give you an example of that. And then the second will be how do I think of it operationally and in in and making the business run better of a restoration business. The first one is it's really up to the technology companies like DocuSketch. And so um, what we recently announced is the ability to actually take our 360 imagery that we're doing and create mitigation caliber floor plan measurements from those 360 images. Why is that possible today? Because the the technology continues to get better and better, and with our data set and the technology improving, we're now in a place where you know three, four years ago that wasn't really possible. Well, today it is. Why does that matter for you as a Respiration Pro? Well, instantly getting measurements from a 360 image can be massively valuable in all sorts of ways. So I think you're gonna see point solutions, um, and you're gonna see different parts of the process where Don Few Sketch and others are gonna provide just better solutions that were just not possible. So those are those are the ones, right? That's that's great. Operationally, and for those guys that do have their opening flaws with Mac minis, um it's great. The the way I think about AI and the value there, and kind of with our conversation too around data, is AI will develop to bring together the data it does know about in more and more interesting ways that we've never been able to do before. Just this week, for example, Claude announced that um they they've launched the ability for Claude to effectively control your computer. What does that mean? What it means is it practically you can give it an instruction to move data from one system to another, and those two systems don't have APIs, they don't talk to each other, they might just be desktop applications, right? And Cloud will actually know how to open one and pull the data be in a in a way that is just not possible four or five years ago, and then open another system and put the data in place. And so I think of as AI can provide a lot of the plumbing that really that the industry couldn't provide previously. Now there's a lot to consider there. There's a lot about terms of service and other things you need to pay attention to as you as you as you think about using tools like that. But I think inevitably, because that that that operational piece has arrived for the market, I think this data problem that that we are talking about today is going to get solved one way or another because the tools Are now there to start bringing the data together in one place in a way that's just even six months ago, we would we would not be there yet.

SPEAKER_00

Before you even think about using a tool like that, you have to have standardized data though, right? Because if it's if you're giving it instructions, it has to be able to follow those instructions every single time. It's it's not going to learn on the fly like a human being. Well, actually, I take that back. Some of them do learn on the fly a little bit better than a human being there. Um, but you this isn't your first stop in technology, right? Um, you you just got to to DocuSketch uh last year. What do you think makes restoration especially difficult, like when it comes to data standardization? Is it job types? Is it carriers? Is it just documentation habits? I, you know, Clinton, I think it's it's a it's a site.

SPEAKER_01

We go back to smells, it's a site you show, it's a it's a site where the fire department just gets got done and there's a lot of burnt things and there's water everywhere. I it's just it it is a there's an in there's an intensity and a um I'm sure a lot of folks listening, there's there's probably a lot of a lot of folks get a lot out of that moment in time. There's a there's a property owner or a homeowner who is on a really bad day, most likely. Sure. I there's so much to do so fast in that moment. And um the intensity of that moment and being able to provide tools like intuitive is almost an understatement. You want to provide tools that are just like a second brain top person that are so second nature to them that they are just be they are just able to focus their energy on great customer service, giving somebody a light at the end of this really long tunnel they just they just found themselves in. And that is the thing that is, I think, most intensely unique about this interest industry, and the thing I'm fascinated by. Um, and then multiply that by literally thousands in a cat situation. So it it it is that those two things are create a unique data capture challenge. And so for us at DocuSketch, it is how do we take the intuition to that level? And then for us, the answer is well, just keep it to what they're used to. Can they just do a walkthrough? Um, can I just do a walkthrough of the property? Just tell us what you're seeing. Do it with video or do it with just audio. You know how to take photos, just take photos, just take video. And so I think one of the things that we're working on really hard is bringing that, bringing that to what are the most intuitive things they can do to do the data capture steps so that they can just focus on what is the really intense work that is right in front of them in that moment. And so that is that is the that is the thing that is absolutely um unique and fascinating to me about this industry in particular.

SPEAKER_00

Now, Docu Sketch is becoming a technology partner to a lot more restorers on a day-to-day or week-to-week basis there. Um, I had Holly uh from you guys company on a podcast a few months ago. Love Holly, huge fan. Um, we talked about technology uh not necessarily always being the problem, right? Sometimes the problem is, and I I love restorers to death, my audience, you guys know I appreciate you, but sometimes it's the people, the process, the adoption of the technologies there. So now that you've had a chance to not just work on the technology, but be in the field, do the ride-alongs, be on job sites, um, what are your thoughts on getting these people to adapt to this kind of data standardization using the technologies that companies like DocuSketch provides?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, it is it is on DocuSketch. It is on to, it is, is on our competitors to make it incredibly intuitive, simple, and consistent. And recognize that at times, like in a cat situation, this may be somebody who is temporary in terms of their involvement with the restorer, um, even if they came from another restorer, right? If they it's still temporary. And so you have to hold it to that standard of simplicity and know that you know, for technicians on site, for there's a lot of great text out there. There's there's a lot of text that just do a job. And if you just recognize that and and embrace the idea that you just need to be very consistent, clear, and intuitive with what they need to accomplish, and continue to make the app the our our application more and more intuitive, intuitive with that in mind is is really the key when it comes to text in the field. I think um what I there's a tight end in particular that I I remember was holding around in the Dallas Fort Worth area. Uh and he he was he was incredibly valuable for me because he was able to I was able to see somebody who is absolutely there to he'd want he was a great tech, but it in it was just like I could tell as soon as he had to get that third app open, the just annoyance on his face of like I don't want to be it. It was like a true the transition to like I don't want to be here was like instant. Like I don't want to be doing that, I don't want to be here. Like, why am I in the and it's it's totally understandable. And it's also why it's like, why are there mistakes in the field over and over again? And why like and I know they're why do these things keep happening on the job site? And like having that experience, it's like okay, like we gotta solve this fragmentation problem, and we've just gotta make it intuitive. They shouldn't have to be thinking about these apps, they should just be thinking about their job, and their job should not be using apps. So that's that is yeah, that is where I spend, if you can't tell us, Clint, this is where I spend a lot of my headspace thinking about mat tech and that situation.

SPEAKER_00

All right, so let's take that tech or let's take any techs that are or restores that are owner operators that are working in the field day after day. What are a few practical habits that they can do to improve their data quality like right away?

SPEAKER_01

Oh, yes. A couple of very easy ones. Um the first is if you're using any 360 imagery products and you know gosh, I hope it's donkey sketch. Uh just we will we're actually well this is something I can I can talk about on on your podcast, and we previewed it lightly in a webinar. We're gonna help with this. Just have the tech, make sure the tech takes two two images, two two through sixty snapshots per room at least. Just say two. And that's it, and and and again, this is a good example. If you say one to three, they're gonna take one. Two. Right. If they do one today, just tell them to do two. And if they say don't they don't know where to where to place it, what we were building is actually the ability now with AI, we can actually tell the technician where else in that room we need them to place the camera. So we're gonna have some functionality out there for all of our customers that lets them know where and how many shots need to be taken to really fully encapsulate and data capture that entire room really, really well. Will we add it out there? Just say two. If you're doing three or more, say three or more. Don't go down to two, but do at least two. And then the second is snap photos. Uh, we've we've made it easier to do photo capture, docu sketch, and others. Like pre-existing conditions um are spend 10 extra seconds per room, just 10 seconds per room, and you will find three things if you just glance around for 10 seconds. So it's like two extra shots, 10 extra seconds. And you know, those sort of simple mantras I think tend to work in the field. Two shots, 10 extra seconds. And if you just take a couple of extra photos of what you see with 10 extra seconds and two extra shots, I I I promise you, there will be one of those, one of those line items, one of those pre-existing conditions, situations that shows up later, right, with with grandma's furniture, that like you will you will be protected if you just do that. Two shots and ten ten extra seconds.

SPEAKER_00

I I've I'm sure most of the restro restorers listening to the conversation right now have had that instance where they wish they would have spent a few more seconds, yeah, captured a few more images to protect their margins and make sure that they because it's not about the work that you do, right? It's about the work that you build for there, right? Totally enough. Yeah. Um, all right. So you've now working, you know, in the field, in the office with the technology team. Um, what role do you think like SOPs play in improving data consistency for a restoration company? Because I just had a great conversation with Toby Clem from uh Restoration Advisors, literally just talking about why there's hesitation but from restorers and actually doing SOPs for everything that they do in the field.

SPEAKER_01

Yes. So this is actually a really good one to bring the operational AI into creating SOPs. In my experience, the and I've visited a couple of restorers that actually have nailed the SOP game. The amount of time, effort, energy they continuously have to pour in to keep those things updated and constantly leveraged and used is incredibly high. When they're used, their success rate, they're some of our best documenters that we see it in their data. So there's there's absolutely value there. But it's like high value and high effort, is what I what I see as the SOP game right now in restoration. Uh for those that are willing to take it on, they get the benefit. But man, it takes a lot. The reason I mentioned the AI piece is it's becoming easier and easier using AI to both create SOPs, standardize on them, and update them. And so there's a number of point solution tools around SOPs. There are also um just just AI tools in general can help with SOPs. It's something that um I'm sure if you if you look around for it, you're you'll find some some interesting techniques to help you stay up to date and improve those SOPs. It's the maintenance aspect in my experience, is always the tough part. And I saw this in general contracting too, um, and trades contracting, that the original SOP was the easy part. It's it's when the thing gets stale and then it can't be trusted, that's when the whole thing goes out the window. The first time you have that SOP that somebody like this isn't right, and that's where that's where you run into problems. So yeah, look for those tools to help you maintain and update. And then I'm super pro SOPs.

SPEAKER_00

I think they're I think they're wonderful. One one bad SOP, people are throwing the baby out with the bathwater, right? Totally not. Um can't can't can't trust this book anymore. Um, so we I think most would admit um data data standardization in the restoration industry is probably a little ways away, right? We've got multiple carriers, everybody uses different tools. Um, talk a little bit about partnerships and like proprietary workflows, and like can that be like a stepping stone to getting us to full data standardization across the industry?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, so you mean partnerships between the different like corporate entities, like documents like sellers?

SPEAKER_00

Like you and a CRM and like all of these other uh estimating tools.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, yes, absolutely. And I think we we at Docking Sketch, so we have just uh, for example, signed a five-year partnership agreement with Verisk to bring the data that's coming into Docking Sketch and you know, Verisk including their you know kind of flagship Xactimate product, bring the data that that's between those products closer together. Um we've worked with other tools, the other CRMs within the space too that we have direct integrations with. Um so we're gonna continue what we can do with DockingSketch is continue to actually, on behalf of the restorers, reach out to all of the possible partners, which is what we what we are doing, to see if we can do the most direct integrations possible and not leave you with that case where you're thinking about using AI to move data from one tool to another tool. I think the direct integrations, and the reason the direct integrations, I think, do matter a lot is we are then the two companies are then responsible for looking at the data inconsistencies and trying to make sure that the data meshes well together.

SPEAKER_00

Right.

SPEAKER_01

And if we don't do that, then you're gonna have to do that as a restorer, which goes back to your point about data consistency, that data inconsistency can cause troubles. And so, you know, at Doggy Sketch, we are we are very pro-partnership. Um, and in as somebody that's new to the industry, actually, it's been a wonderful experience to work with a company that's so pro-partnership because I've met a lot of the founders, a lot of the owners of some of these other companies, a lot of the product leaders. Um, there's a lot of good abundance thinking in the industry that has surprised me in a positive way. What I mean by that is there's definitely we have competitors. And but there's this sense of uh there's a sense of growth and and like like working together, we could do things that are better than if we just strictly compete on all fronts. And that's been a really refreshing thing in this industry. That encourages me that some of this partnership stuff will get solved. If the industry as a whole has this abundance sort of level of thinking, it I think we're gonna be able to bring more and more tools together. And as DocuSketch, we're gonna keep bringing more partners on so that all of the documentation that you have brought together, even all the way in and through and an estimate can get to the right places and really connect those systems together for you. Yeah, we don't for CRM is a great example to just finish this thought. Like we we're not interested in creating yet another CRM. Turns out there's a couple of those already. So, like, why not? Like, let's if that's your system of record for like storing customer data, like we should absolutely partner with that system. It just makes sense for you as the restorer, and it's certainly as a head of product who doesn't want to build another CRM. It makes sense for me too.

SPEAKER_00

But the the but the hesitation is for by one of the technology companies, it's either the CRM that doesn't want to give that API that access to the company that does the uh uh data capture, right? Like so there, there's a conflict in there somewhere, or else everybody would get along, right? Everybody would talk together. Uh you you've provided a great deal of value to the audience. Um, before we wrap up, I want to give you a chance to talk a little bit more specifically about DocuSketch and what you guys have in the pipeline because we've got, you know, hundreds of listeners every single episode. I'm sure some of them are using your technology right now. Some of them have walked by you guys' booth at an RIA event um or a conference in Las Vegas there. Um, I'm gonna give you an opportunity to get on that soapbox and sing the praises of DocuSketch and what technologies you think that your average restorer or the guy that's listening to this that literally just got their IICRC certification, just got their first truck wrapped, just brought the DHUs, the air movers. Why DocuSketch and where do I get started?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, absolutely. Um DocuSketch started as a company that was extremely focused in the name. Extremely focused on providing and sketching ability from 360 imagery. A very specific but very, very painful problem, or used to be a painful problem in the industry. And what DocuSketch did really well when we solved that problem years ago is it we provided a whole solution for that problem. Meaning, if you're a restorer, you could trust Docky Sketch to deal with the sketching part. It's off my plate, right? It's off my plate. So I think when with what we have coming, which I'll talk about here in a second, we're looking to make sure that we solve the whole problem for you, the restorer. Don't solve 80% of the problem and leave me with a 20% that's actually the hard stuff. Like solve it. Solve it. So what we are working on solving is uh I'm just gonna focus very briefly on two things. First, we talked about data capture today. Using a combination of just a much more intuitive interface and AI tooling, bringing data capture to where it is that second, that, that intuitive, almost second nature to a technician on how you do the data capture. Just talk to the thing, just record some videos, just take some photos, just take some 360s. And using those, notice I didn't say just fill in this very large form uh and stare at your tablet or phone for 10 minutes. Just talk. Just talk. Or just just talk, or just take some photos, do some videos. So putting it putting it on the technology to actually do the the work of taking all of that information and then turning it into accurate compliant job scope. And so that's the that is number the number one thing we've been working on is that data captured scope. And then the other half of this equation that we've been working on is taking that scope and that data that's captured and turning it into compliant, observable, transparent estimates. If you, if we if we've done the hard work of ingesting all of that scope from all of its sources, we we do think we have the ability to have this job scope in your hands as a restorer, then you can take that and turn that into an estimate and get that estimate to a, well, let's be frank here, a customer at times who's actually thinking about do I do this out of pocket or do I go to a carrier, right? I'm in that scenario, can we get that estimate to them day one, right? First hour, or taking it the full compliance route. Either way, if you're so if you're if you're that guy that just got the truck drapped and you're prepared to go to the first job site, the unfortunate news I have for you is you're gonna spend way too much time on everything I just described and not on the equipment you just put in your truck. So our job is to take it and make it intuitive to capture, give you this, give you the ability to see the scope in the middle, make some adjustments if you want to, get to an estimate, but link all that data together. We'll show you how we got there, why why we got there, why is this in my job scope, why is this line item in my estimate? And we're gonna do it by starting with just capture the data in the most intuitive way possible. We put out a webinar uh that's uh a little over a week and a half old now. That um, so of course, in AI terms, maybe that's ancient, but but we really lay out this product vision about a week and a half ago. So if you go to our site, docky sketch.com, uh, take a look at our blog, we posted the webinar there. I go into the I get if you've got questions, if you want details, there's a lot more details there. You can find out more.

SPEAKER_00

Uh a lot of our guys are probably in a truck right now and driving to their next job site. So what we'll do for the audience is we'll put a link specifically to that webinar in our show notes so that they can uh can take on that, uh, can uh can watch that and get some knowledge out of it. Got two closing questions for you. I know you've been super generous with your time. Um, the first one comes from like just my sci-fi brain thinking. Like, how far are we away on the hardware side from like wearable technologies that do exactly what you talk about? Like, I'm just gonna walk through a job site, look around, talk to my glasses or the body cam that I have nestled on me, and that's gonna do all of the things that currently Docu Sketch's hardware does in a home or a business.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. There are when it comes to those sort of technologies, there's always there's kind of a typical what is the hardest of the problems to solve for each one of those technologies to be fully unlocked? And on glasses and wearables, it's a combination of um it's not actually taking any point in time and gathering data from it. So if I get the fancy metaglasses um and I walk around the job site, I can take a lot of data from it. It's the combination of the amount of data with the fact that somebody's moving in space and get gathering all of that stuff in a way that is can replace a super high definition single point placed 360 photo. So it's going from something that's stationary to something that's moving and the amount of data you're trying to process and the quality you're trying to get to. So the hard problems are things like I want you to take a closer look over there with your glasses. How do you do that so fast that somebody doesn't take almost an extra step before you tell them to go turn over here and take a closer look? Because that's where that's the so for me, Clinton, that's where like it becomes then an intuitive thing. So we're just gonna see those cycles reduce and reduce to where that is the because then you can actually capture the data with with those technologies that you need, then that thing becomes a valuable piece. So that's like the hard part on the super wearable tech. You can tell I've tried this out.

SPEAKER_00

Um I was just gonna say, am I gonna see the first DocuSketch wearable thing at the next industry event in uh summer of 2022?

SPEAKER_01

If you see me, if you see me put on a pair of glasses in the middle of a product demo, I guess you'll know what's coming. Fair enough.

SPEAKER_00

Fair enough. Um, all right. So you came from working with general contractors and stuff before you started uh working over a DocuSketch. Um, there's a lot of people in the restoration company that kind of limit themselves to mitigation only because they are like terrified of the challenges and the things that come with rebuilds, right? We we know there's money in there. The margins aren't quite as good as the mitigation margins, but we know there's money to be made. Um, how does a technology like DocuSketch really help that guy that's looking to make the move from being just a mitigation-only restoration company to full service, where they're doing the rebuild work and getting those homeowners' properties back to the original state?

SPEAKER_01

Oh, yes. This is uh it's a great point, Quentin. The the the imagery alone that we've been doing historically at DocuSketch is helpful to know where you've started, where you're going. And the timeline aspect of things starts to you can start to build confidence that you, okay, I've gotten it down. I got through the whole demo. Yeah, you're you're you got you're gonna have to deal with other trades. I'm sure that's a part of it too. Like, yeah, coming from remodeling, like yeah, it's like, okay, I'm out I'm about to have to stub out stuff in a way that, you know, I control Mitt, now I'm gonna have to deal with trades. Um, how do I do that? Oh, that's helpful, but really what we've got coming out with this job scope ability, this is gonna start to turn the corner for you because if you can see the job scope and you can this is all the job scope for Mitt and Demo. Translating that into actual full reconstruction scoping is not far away. And as long as you're doing the data capture of here's what it, you know, here's what we actually find when we open up the envelope. I call it the wall biopsies and the floor biopsies, right? We actually know I again I've only been here for eight months. I don't think that's an industry term, but I'm gonna go with it. I mean, I I'm you may not have been the first one to say it, but we'll give you credit for it. Awesome, awesome. Yeah, I doubt I made it up too. I I'm sure this I'm not the first one, but good. I'm glad you laughed. You know what I'm talking about. I do. Once you do, once you once you gather the right data, that's gonna add to that scope. You're really only a step away from how do I bid, in my experience at least, working a lot of remodels. It's like, how do I how do I get how do I get subs involved in like what's what's the delta there? But you're gonna know what the scope is. And so if you go take that scope and you start talking to subs about, hey, could like can we work together on reconstruction on this and start to break that, break into that reconstruction part and start to say, okay, I'll I'll GC this thing, which is you know, this, yeah, we're we're coming from my experience here. That your that job scope's gonna be confidence because it your your trades are gonna look at that, they're gonna be able to say things to you that tell you, hey, this trade really knows like what the hard part of this job is gonna be, or oh, I gotta I'm gonna have a problem on my hands if I have this trade for this for this specific job. And if for me, I think for the restore, hopefully that's that's the thing that would keep me up at night if I'm in a restore shoe trying to go into reconstruction is like, how do I not, how do I, I know I can do a good job. I need I need help, I need expertise, but like, how do I how do I make sure that those subs that that that I'm bringing in to be a part of this project, you know, that I'm confident that they're gonna be able to do the right work.

SPEAKER_00

Well, at least if they do a good job with data, they will be able to make a more intelligent decision on whether or not they want to take on that rebuild opportunity. Um, Andrew, I really appreciate you giving us so much time today. Um, for the audience, I hope you guys got a great deal of value. Again, we're going to drop a link in the uh YouTube description in the podcast uh uh notes, um, taking them to that webinar there. Any last and parting words for the audience of the Restoration Pros Unplugged Podcast, Andrew?

SPEAKER_01

No, I'll it's just a pleasure working for y'all. It's easy to work hard for people that work hard. So, like um, yeah, easy, easy to get up in the morning, early in the morning, like most of y'all do, uh, and just work for you every day. So, absolute pleasure to to work for you and absolute pleasure to be on the podcast. And thanks for inviting me.

SPEAKER_00

Thank you, Andrew. We appreciate it. And for the listeners, if you like what you heard today, hey, go out, leave us a five-star review because it helps us to get the show in front of more restorers out there. Um, again, thank you for uh for being on, Andrew. We'll be back next week with another episode of the Restoration Pros Unplugged Podcast, hopefully bringing you guys some value so that you can grow and scale your restoration businesses. Thanks again for your time, Andrew. Thank you for listening to the Restoration Pros Unplugged Podcast. If you like what you heard today, be sure to subscribe, share, and also leave us a five-star review. We'll be back with more interviews and discussions with restoration industry leaders really soon. In the meantime, if you're a restoration company looking to add more high value water jobs, you can reach me and my team at War Restoration Marketing.net. Again, that's War Restoration Marketing.net. I look forward to hearing from you so.