How to choose a digital agency that actually grows your business

Many B2B companies find themselves trapped in a cycle of hiring and firing agencies because the initial chemistry failed to translate into tangible growth. Gathered in person for this episode, Digital Marketing Team Lead Haydn Woods-Williams, Managing Director Gareth Llewellyn, and Head of Digital Marketing Services Rich Harper dissect what it actually takes to build a successful agency relationship. They discuss why natural rapport and shared values are just as important as technical capability. 

We break down actionable vetting strategies, including how to perform old-school due diligence like checking financial stability and speaking directly to reference clients. Whether you are considering a single full-service agency to manage your strategy holistically or looking to inject bold, consumer-style creativity into your B2B campaigns, this episode provides a clear roadmap for your next selection process. 

Marketers of the Universe is brought to you by the clever folks at Brew Digital. We’re not your typical digital marketing agency; using an innovative approach to decision-making and collaboration, we help you create an impactful digital strategy that actually delivers results for your business. 

See what we can do for you at brewdigital.com

Transcript

Welcome And Introductions

Haydn Woods-Williams 0:04

Hello and welcome to the Marketers of the Universe podcast. My name is Hayden Woods Williams. I'm a digital marketing team lead here at Brew Digital, and I'm here today to talk about agencies and how you can make sure your business chooses the right agency for you for long-term success. I'm here today with our managing director, Gareth Llewellyn, and our head of digital marketing services, Rich Harper, to discuss everything from whether a full service agency or a specialist agency is better suited to you all the way through to whether you should buy that product from the Snake Oil Salesman Online. For now though, let's get on with the podcast. Just to warm everyone up, I'm going to start just to allow uh Gareth and Rich to intro themselves very quickly.

Gareth Llewellyn 0:50

Um yeah, over to you, Gareth first. Thanks, Hayden. So I've been the manager director at Brood Digital for uh approaching six years now. Uh but prior to that, I've been with the Adaptivist group, uh, our parent company for over 15 years, uh doing a whole bunch of different roles in different areas.

Haydn Woods-Williams 1:09

Nice.

Gareth Llewellyn 1:10

Nice.

Haydn Woods-Williams 1:10

So you've been here a long time.

Gareth Llewellyn 1:12

I have, yeah. But I I've also got lots of other agency experience from earlier in my career as well. So done a whole load of different things. Thank you, Gareth. And Rich.

Rich Haper 1:22

Uh I'm Rich, head of digital marketing at Brew. Been with Brew now for three and a half years, um, just over. I've been in agencies, though, for or coming up to about 15, 20 years now. Um, prior to joining Brew, I have my own boutique digital agency as well. So hopefully uh I've got plenty of knowledge on uh how to choose the right agency.

Haydn Woods-Williams 1:45

Nice. Um for me, you know, I've actually not been agency side for that long. Um I think I've been at Brew now for three years, um maybe four years, uh, an adaptivist for for five and a half years. So lots of experience here as well. Um I've also spent a lot of my time in-house, so have that kind of experience of understanding what companies are looking for when it comes to

Avoiding A Bad Agency Fit

Haydn Woods-Williams 2:10

finding an agency. So my first question, uh, really to try and kick us off with a little bit of uh of fuzz is one of the things that I've kind of seen come up multiple times when it comes to um talking to customers and clients and kind of secondary research is one of the biggest issues that comes with trying to choose an agency is either A, they uh don't know what to look for. There's so many different options: growth agency, uh full service agency, uh kind of LinkedIn specialist agency. Um and the other thing is that they've been burnt before. How, and I'm gonna start with you, Gareth. How can a company looking to start an agency relationship or a new agency relationship make sure they're not gonna start with, you know, a company that's gonna ultimately be crap for their growth?

Gareth Llewellyn 3:09

So I think there's really two things that I would focus on if I was looking for a new agency. Firstly, you want to find an agency that you can have a long-term partnership relationship with. You want them to be working with you to achieve the best thing for your business. So having that kind of relationship, that rapport, I think is super, super important. But secondly, I think it's about choosing an agency that complements and augments the skills that you have. So if you're already doing maybe some of your marketing or some of your digital work in-house, don't get, don't find an agency that can do that same stuff because you've already got people that can do that. Find an agency that can really augment that skill set and enable you to do more than you can with your existing in-house team. How do you go about knowing that information about your own business? Well, I think that's where you really do need to lean on your team. Understand from them where they feel their strengths are, but also where they can recognize that where they don't have the strengths. So where you seek extra skills. So, for example, paid media was a topic you know very well. It's very easy for people to have a superficial knowledge and experience with paid media. But at the same time, people need to be honest if actually that's an area where we need more in-depth experience, we need an agency that can offer us real in-depth research and offer us more insights that we simply don't have the skills or experience to do in-house, maybe.

Haydn Woods-Williams 4:46

I think Rich, you're gonna have a unique insight on this as well, having kind of run the own agency and and um had customers and had to analyze what expertise to have in your own team. What are your

Specialist Versus Full Service

Haydn Woods-Williams 5:00

thoughts on that?

Rich Haper 5:01

It's an interesting one because there's that debate between whether or not you should specialise in something as a business or should you provide multiple services uh like a full service agency under one roof. Um, I think both have their merits. You know, if you go to a specialist agency that you are hopefully getting that very specialized expertise. Um, you mentioned, you know, LinkedIn ads. I know an agency that that are LinkedIn ad specialists, that is what they do, that is all they do, and they get great results. However, from a client perspective, from a business perspective, are you then going to go and work with the LinkedIn ad agency to run your LinkedIn ads? What if you then need organic SEO and you don't have that skill set in-house? You then need to go out and find another agency that can do that. If you then want to run Google, because this agency are just a LinkedIn ads agency, and you now want to run Google search campaigns. Do you then have to find another agency to run that? All of a sudden you're balancing and managing multiple agencies. Yes, you've got lots of specialists, and hopefully they're all going to get your results. But the fact that you're balancing multiple agencies means that you're going to have three or four different uh retainers or pricing models or uh things that you're going to have to um manage and pay for, which is going to potentially increase your budgets. Um, and two, you're managing multiple things. There's a risk there that it could become siloed. So you've got all of this activity completely siloed from one another. Those agencies will not generally talk to each other. Um, I think often as well, but people, especially in those specialist cases, they do tend to work quite isolated. Um, but on the flip side, the full service agency, you have one solution, and hopefully that full service agency has the right expertise in-house to cover your needs. And if it's you're going to be looking for kind of multiple services, then the full service model could work for you. The downside or the flip side to a full service is that perhaps they come across that they are that jack of all trades, master of none type of um scenario. Um, so it's it's getting that balance right.

Gareth Llewellyn 7:22

I think there's a big advantage when going with a full service agency that they're able to look at your business more holistically.

Rich Haper 7:30

Yeah.

Gareth Llewellyn 7:31

And they can really sort of look across all everything that you're doing, across your digital marketing and even your offline marketing as well. They can look at the whole picture and help you identify where maybe there's gaps and things like that. And that's the thing that going to a very specialist agency, yes, they can offer that expertise in a very particular area, and there'll be times when you need that, but they're not going to be looking holistically and looking at how to help you achieve your overall business objectives across everything you could do with your digital marketing.

Rich Haper 8:03

Yeah, exactly. And I I think it comes down to if you're looking for that type of agency, that full service model, look at the way they position themselves. Not necessarily them positioning what services they offer, but how are they talking to you as a as a business? Do they have expertise in the same industry as that you're in? Um, do they specialise perhaps they have the expertise that cover full service, but they specialise in say uh B2B or or the technology space like we do. So therefore you have that alignment. You know that the people they employ are are going to know what they're doing. But however, from an agency perspective, they also have that kind of insight, that industry knowledge that that perhaps a specialist agency, yes, they can be very specific on one channel, but may do it for multiple places and may lack that kind of external um environment knowledge.

Haydn Woods-Williams 8:58

You mentioned industry

Industry Knowledge Without Becoming Samey

Haydn Woods-Williams 9:00

specific experience. Is that something that if you're a business looking for an agency? Literally what we're talking about.

Rich Haper 9:11

Um do you need that specialist experience? Um I think it helps. I think certain industries there will be uh things that you would hope or you would go to someone that knows because there may be regulations, there may be regulatory things that they need to be aware of, there may be certain nuances that in your industry um you'd expect an agency to know. So you're not having to kind of guide them, tell them everything. I think the one thing is if you're going to work with an agency, having had a brief spell um in-house, is you want them to do the thinking for you. The reason that you are employing an agency is because you don't have the headspace or the resource internally to do it. So if I write a brief and I hand it off to an agency, I want that agency to really own it, come back to me and tell me exactly what I'm gonna, what they're gonna deliver, how they're gonna deliver it, and what results that's gonna uh achieve. So if they know the industry, I feel I would feel more comfortable that yeah, they get the kind of niche or the nuances that that I'm involved in. I don't think that's appropriate for every single industry, but I I would be wary if you're an agency and they go, hey, yeah, we work in the tech space, the charity space, the healthcare space, the manufacturing automotive, because they won't know it'd be impossible to know everything. From a this is talking from an agency perspective, when you then start shouting, we do everything and to everyone, it's like you're just shouting into a void. And then I think from a client perspective, if you're looking for an agency, they just don't stand out enough.

Haydn Woods-Williams 10:49

Yeah, I mean that's a classic example of a problem that you know many marketers, junior, senior people not even in marketing make all the time, right? They they try to do everything and and end up doing nothing.

Gareth Llewellyn 11:06

Yeah, I mean just to counter Rich's point a little bit, I I think at the other extreme when companies go for an agency that is very specialist in their sector or their domain, then you end up essentially having a lack of creative thinking. There are agencies out there that specialise in digital marketing and websites and things just for universities and higher education. And yes, they know that industry really well. They understand exactly what sort of what uh all the key things that a university cares about. But the trouble is what they produce ends up looking like every other university website. And you don't get that injection of new ideas and ideas from other industries, and it's good to learn from what other domains and industries do. So that's where I think yes, it's it's good to go for an agency that has experience with your industry, but don't think that you need to have one that only works in your industry. Look for those options uh for sort of more creativity and and ideas that are going to be new and original for you because that that is how you're gonna be able to stand out against your competition.

Rich Haper 12:20

We're a B2B agency. I think that can be true of the B2B profession in general as well. That B2B is seen as this, you know, boring, safe cousin of B2C marketing, that B2B can't do anything creative, it can't be imaginative, it's got to be well, we're speaking to a corporate, so it needs to be corporate tone, it needs to be professional. Um, and actually, I think some of the best B2B marketing I've seen is the ones that step out of that category and actually challenge it and be a bit more consumer-facing. Because I mean, at the end of the day, B2B marketers are still talking to people.

Haydn Woods-Williams 12:56

I love I love Hoot Suite for this. They, I mean, I'm not a social media manager myself, but if you look at Hootsuite's socials, they really kind of are a mirror to that life of a social media manager, and they understand those pain points. And in their their their videos, uh, they are really, really effective at communicating that.

Rich Haper 13:21

You also like the giant red bird, don't you?

Haydn Woods-Williams 13:23

I it is all yeah. Basically, I just want like a knockoff duolingo bird that I can take home. Like B2B Duolingo bird. It's red, so it's evil. I'm now starting to think about like Sith Lords. This is this is a uh a moment that I'm just letting get out of hand.

Rich Haper 13:42

Read it back in.

Haydn Woods-Williams 13:43

That's it. Yeah, if if Tom was here, he would be he would be telling me off right now. I think we need to be really careful here because what I don't want this to be is a conversation about how great Brew are um and how terrible all other agencies are. You know, as much as like I'd love people to see that, that's not well that is true, exactly exactly. But one of the things that's kind of coming out is that you know you can you can start a relationship with an amazing agency who's had incredible results and they might not be the right fit for you. How do you go about that discovery of

Rapport Recommendations And Gut Feel

Haydn Woods-Williams 14:20

is this agency right for me?

Gareth Llewellyn 14:23

I I think like so many things, um, whether you're looking for a plumber or an agency, getting recommendations from people you know and trust is really invaluable. Ultimately, when you've when you're first talking to agencies, maybe you've put a brief out, maybe you're just reaching out to agencies and having some initial conversations. I think just having really open conversations with those agencies, see who you develop that natural rapport and relationship with, and see how they want to work with you. Are they interested in your business and the problems you're trying to solve, or are they just trying to get you to sign a contract for a chunk of money and they just want to know, okay, you want a new website, you want a new brand. It's like, do they understand you? Are they motivated by helping your business succeed and help you achieve what your objectives are? Um, because ultimately that's what you need them to be doing. You don't want them to just be order takers, you want them to be really helping you achieve your objectives. And the only way you're really going to get that is by having those conversations and building that relationship and thinking, do they get me? Do they get my business or what I'm trying to achieve?

Haydn Woods-Williams 15:35

What's that like from the other side? How do agencies know that the business is right?

Rich Haper 15:39

Sometimes I think it comes down to gut, if I'm completely honest. Um, and I've got experience of having that gut feeling that something or someone, some client is not right, um, and yet pursued it anyway, because at the end of the day, we need to make money. Especially when I was running my own business, it was okay, it doesn't feel quite right, but the money's there, you know, we've got salaries to pay, etc. You take it on. What I've learned over the years is often my gut is is right, um, and those clients end up actually costing you in business because of the difficulties that you have managing them, um, and cost more ways than just the kind of that monetary thing. It's you know, the detriment to uh your mental health, you know, the stress of trying to manage a difficult client. Um, and ultimately, if the client is being difficult with you, they're not also getting a great relationship back. And we've been in those situations, you know, time and time again because you've made a a head head decision because you know the pressure's on, you need to hit targets and you and you say yes. But really, I think it it comes down to that that gut situation. If you think something's not right, just kind of walk away, move on. Um, there's always going to be another client, there'll always be someone else that is a better fit for your organization, for your agency. Um, the same goes for clients. If you don't feel that there's a right fit there, don't pursue it because the price is the cheapest. We've had clients come back to us, and this again, I don't want to turn this into a love-in for brew, but we've had clients that have come back where we've pitched four, and six months down the line they've come back and asked us to repitch again because they went with the cheapest, they didn't get the results that they were promised, and now they're back to square one. And sometimes, you know, you've just got to be transparent with one another. Can you deliver the results? One thing that we pride ourselves on is we won't get it right every single time. But I'd like to think that we will be honest and upfront about that from the start. And if we get an inbound inquiry where we really don't think that we are going to be able to hit the required growth and help that business

Extra Value From Bigger Networks

Rich Haper 18:00

move forwards, then we'll say no, we're not. It's not for us.

Haydn Woods-Williams 18:04

With with Brew in particular, we're in quite a unique situation where you know we are a full service agency. We also have the backing of the adaptivist group. So for anyone who doesn't know, we are owned by uh an umbrella company. Um, that gives us probably a little bit more uh or sorry, less of a risk profile compared to other agencies. Can you give me an example of where being part of something bigger has given access to things that agencies usually wouldn't have access to? And how has that ultimately benefited the client?

Gareth Llewellyn 18:45

So if you think about Brood Digital, we're uh around 50 people. So we're we're a good size agency in our own right. However, the adaptivist group overall is over a thousand people. So that is about a thousand other people that we have access to that are experts in a whole range of different areas. Um, so it gives us access to a huge wealth of experience and knowledge. Um, a good example that we're working with right now is one of our clients wanted to do a whole load of real in-depth analysis of their customer journey to understand the drop-off points in their subscription programs and things like that. Now, as an agency, we can do a level of analysis on with that. However, at the Adaptivist group, they've got an entire team of uh specialized in analytics where they've got dedicated data scientists. And so we've been able to use that team to leverage the knowledge and experience that they have to offer a whole nother level of sort of in-depth uh research and analysis to help help the clients. So that's just one example of where there's so much more skill and experience by being part of a bigger organization that we're able to access. Uh so yeah, it means we don't have to try and do everything ourselves uh what if we don't need to.

Haydn Woods-Williams 20:10

Rich, do you have any examples of other agencies that you you you love? I'm I'm gonna ask in the B2B space if you can, but if you can't, don't worry. Um, who uh kind of echo similar values to that that we hold at Brew that um really impress you, that maybe you you take inspiration from. Now I'm gonna just quickly steal that question back from you. Um one of the things that I heard recently that I wanted to kind of interject before I give you that question is is this idea that there are no such thing as competitors? Um wait, no, we're doing it with a video, you can see my face. Um but there are customer alternatives. So what other customer alternatives do you really like if you were looking at Bruce from an outside lens? Sorry, looking at choosing an agency with an outside lens.

Agency Landscape And Learning From Others

Rich Haper 21:10

So if I was in the house looking for an agency.

Haydn Woods-Williams 21:14

And you're not allowed to say brew.

Rich Haper 21:16

Okay.

Haydn Woods-Williams 21:17

Or your old agency.

Rich Haper 21:19

Well, no, my old agency would be pointless because they don't exist anymore. Um that would be bad with Gareth sitting across the table from me if I was running a competitor agency at the same time.

Haydn Woods-Williams 21:31

Actually, yeah, I'd really like to recommend this agency called Rich Harper's Business.

Rich Haper 21:36

Yeah. Um I do I keep an eye on the agency landscape. There's lots of agencies, there's lots of um, you know, big and small. I I think at the moment, what you're seeing in the industry is a bit of a shake up. You know, you've got the huge powerhouses, you know, your Haveses and your WPPs and stuff. Like that, that are going through huge reshuffles. And you know, I think perhaps the monopoly of those businesses is potentially going to slow down, and you will see more independent, um more flexible type agencies kind of winning more and more work. I think businesses are looking quite short-sighted. So the days of working with an agency for you know five years plus are uh are starting to disappear, which makes it tough for us from an agency perspective, because if we can't hold on to clients, it means we're consistently looking for new ones. But rather than tying people into long-term contracts, I think the results will speak for themselves. So if you're able to deliver results and your clients are happy with you, there's no reason for them to look beyond what they already have. Equally, there's no reason for us to make sure they're tied into a long contract because the work will speak volumes. I I quite like Hallam as an agency. I really enjoy uh some of the work that they're doing and their look and feel. They're very slick, they're very transparent. Um you'll see them generally kind of score and rank quite highly in any sort of um comparisons and stuff like that. I'll be quite biased. It used to be a friend's agency, he's he exited, but um, I also really like a digital agency called Rawnet. Okay. Um, again, um maybe a bit biased because a a friend used to own them. Um but I just have those shared values with with with with what they're doing. They're very um clear and concise in what they're doing. They kind of deliver what they promise um from a brand perspective, very consistent, it's great look and feel. Um I do use them quite a bit to compare steal ideas, perhaps. Um I don't think it's wrong. I think it's stealing, it's taking inspiration. Yeah, taking inspiration. Um but I think that's the biggest compliment you can pay anyone. If you look at what they're doing and you think it is good and you take that and put your own spin on it, and I think going back to an earlier question when we talked about um specialism in industries and B2B becoming a bit samey, again, from an agency perspective and from a business perspective, go and see what your competitors are doing well. Don't just carbon copy it because you will look the same, and then therefore there is no differentiation. But take those ideas, elevate them, add your own creative spin to it, and then you become a little bit more unique. Customer alternatives, customer alternatives, not competitors.

Haydn Woods-Williams 24:46

It's that 180 to being customer-centric.

Gareth Llewellyn 24:49

Okay.

Haydn Woods-Williams 24:49

Uh, anyone you want to add, Gareth?

Gareth Llewellyn 24:51

Um, yeah. So an agency that that's actually very local to me, that I I like a lot is Three Sided Cube. And they have a very clear brand value, that their slogan is tech for good. And when it comes, and and it comes back to the discussion about choosing the right agency and from the agency choosing the right client as well. So if they get uh a project come their way that doesn't fit their ethos of tech for good, and so they do loads of work with the sort of charity sector, environment sector, things like that, then they will turn that away and and they'll sort of pass that on to what what uh to another agency because they're super clear on what their focus is, and they know they're gonna do the best value, well give the best value for clients that fit in with what they're trying to achieve. So I think that I just think they're a really nice example of the agency really being clear as to sort of picking the right clients for them and knowing when to say no to uh a project. Completely, completely.

Haydn Woods-Williams 25:55

And I think from a from the the the perspective of of you know the listener, try to make sure you're not just looking at one agency. Um our business development manager will kill me for saying this, but having alternatives will make sure that you um choose the right one that's gonna help you. Whereas if you look at one, it's like no, if you're buying a house and you only look at one house, or you buy a car and you only look at one car, you don't have any benchmark or comparison to kind of put that on. Absolutely.

AI Hype And Overpromises

Haydn Woods-Williams 26:30

One of the things that I think it is impossible for any B2B business focused podcast to get through at the moment is not having a podcast where AI is discussed at some point. Um now, you know, I've seen data thrown around that um AI is gonna replace agencies. I remember reading a uh a report that said, I think it was that 75% of agencies think that their businesses are gonna grow, but 62% of uh in-house businesses think that AI is gonna reduce the reliance on agency. So there's there's clearly a disconnect there. But what I'd really like to understand is what is changing what are customers asking for now? What can businesses ask for now that maybe they couldn't in the past? Um, and what should those businesses, our listeners, looking for an agency, what should they be looking for? Gareth?

Gareth Llewellyn 27:38

Well, if if I focus on AI to begin with a little bit, because obviously it is something we're being asked about on a sort of daily basis at the moment. And the big challenge is it's a constantly changing landscape. There's new tools coming out every week, every day. And so lots of our clients want to know how they can be using the tools in the right way. Should they be using them, which tools to use, how to use them? So I think certainly from the client side, there's a lot of almost like fear that things are moving fast, but they don't know what to do. And I think in many ways that expands to actually all of digital marketing. Yeah. That they know they need to be doing stuff. There's so much stuff going on, whether it's through social media or paid media and stuff like that. And and that that's where they need help. They they want help and um and expertise from an agency to make sure they're doing the right thing and that they're not being left behind.

Haydn Woods-Williams 28:37

Nice. Thank you.

Rich Haper 28:39

Anything to add? I think just be careful of overpromises. Um, I think there's lots of people out there at the moment um uh promising that they, you know, they have the secret recipe to um making your business a success, and by using AI they can do it at a fraction of the cost. Yeah. Um, it hasn't been around long enough for people to fully understand um and maximise it. We are seeing the potential of it, and I think agencies are are, if I'm completely transparent, are working their way around how AI can support and and help improve efficiencies and and stuff like that. Um I wouldn't say anyone had the answer, um, and I don't think the platforms themselves even know exactly where they want to be yet. Um, you know, from a digital marketing perspective, there are multiple choices for people. So you think from a search perspective, Google have dominated for the last decade or more. Now there's lots of alternatives, but there's no one standout alternative that's kind of paving the way for everyone else to kind of copy. Um so whilst they're still trying to work things out, how can you have an expert claim that they know exactly what's going on? From a client perspective, if you're looking at an agency, again, go with that gut feeling. If they're telling you something that sounds a little bit too good to be true, then perhaps it is. Uh, whereas if an agency is being transparent with you that, hey, yeah, we use AI and this is how we use it, I would be more inclined to think about those types of agencies than that AI guru that's come out of nowhere in the last 12 months and has probably watched a couple of YouTube videos.

Haydn Woods-Williams 30:28

Which I guess is a danger of the business landscape we're seeing at the moment where human brands, people, I guess you could also call them, um, are being pushed by LinkedIn as a perfect example. So thought leader ads, influencer campaigns, all these things put humans at the center. How do you know that this person is reliable, but is the face of an agency beyond this person is uh an AI snake oil salesman? How do you know that it's even a human and not AI generated? That's terrifying. I I was literally watching a video this morning of I think it was a a a Chinese uh TikToker whose whose like face filter was flicking in and out, and it was a completely different person. And that is it's genuinely terrifying. And I feel like that is completely um mirrored in in people searching for agency. And what you said there is is massive rich. Like being upfront about it and and having your agency being being upfront about it has to be something that you look

Red Flags And Due Diligence

Haydn Woods-Williams 31:39

for.

Rich Haper 31:39

Yeah.

Haydn Woods-Williams 31:39

Um, what are some red flags that you can see when talking to an agency?

Rich Haper 31:44

Do your research. Um, a good for me, a good agency is going to have some sort of footprint online. Um if they are publishing content, if they are um talking at events, if they have a good catalogue of clients, there will be a footprint of them online that you can at least start to work out, okay, yeah, they've been around for five years or ten years, or they've just started, but uh the person that started them has got a history in previous agencies or has come from an in-house and set up an agency. Generally speaking, the good people will leave a footprint of where they've been. And if you do your research, you can find out does that experience match with what they're selling me up front? I think you'll find the ones, you know, those influencers. Um, you can't you'll see the ad. They may have an Instagram profile or a LinkedIn profile, but beyond that, you'll find very little information about them circulating. Um, for me, that would be uh an instant red flag. And I think just treat agencies the same as any purchase that you would in your you know, your real lives, in your consumer in consumer lives. You wouldn't go, or I'd hope to think, uh, you wouldn't go and just purchase something as at a whim off of some guy that you saw on the in the pub on a on a Friday night.

Haydn Woods-Williams 33:16

12 dogs that's cheap, keep bumping into people at the pubs.

Rich Haper 33:19

Yeah, I mean maybe maybe you sometimes there is that impulse buy, but generally speaking, people do they don't tend to buy rationally. Most people even if you think that it's an impulse, there will be some sort of thought process that's got you to that point. You don't just go out and buy a new car. There will be, you know, you don't wake up in the world, there will be some sort of process up until that point. And even if you think it's still a it's a it's an irrational choice. I woke up and decided to go buy the car this morning. You haven't. There have been cues, there's been triggers along the way that have helped you rationalise that impulse decision. Um, and I think that will be happening with agencies. You'll see stuff, you don't just see the first person as you scroll in Instagram and go, I promise to get you 10,000 leads a day. Oh, well, that guy can definitely do that. I'll give him all my money.

Haydn Woods-Williams 34:16

Um but he said he can have my money back.

Rich Haper 34:18

Yeah, give you, yeah. It'll be impossible to get your money back. There's lots of these people springing up, um, they are, you know, the chances, you know, and ultimately they will they will pick people off.

Gareth Llewellyn 34:34

Um it comes down to what what we used to call in the old days doing your due diligence. And I I think the problem is sort of we we live in an environment where everything's moving so quickly at the moment, it often feels like, oh, I've seen an influencer say that I should go hire them or whatever. You still need to do your due diligence. And exactly as Rich is saying, that is sort of seeing, okay, what is their front footprint? How long have they been around? Do they have a portfolio of clients? Ask them for some references. Like even if they're not someone that you know sort of directly, speak to some of their existing clients. Um, any good agency will have clients that will be happy to talk to you, talk about the relationship they have. Um, and we see it all the time when we're working with larger organizations, they put a lot of effort into making sure we're legit, that we're we've been around for a while and that we're going to be around for the foreseeable future. Even some boring stuff like checking on company's house. Does this company exist? Do they have published accounts? How long does that go back? These are things that, yeah, it's a bit boring, a bit old school, but actually it's really effective because you can see is this company I'm talking to that I'm thinking about giving money to, are they profitable or are they in trouble, etc.?

Rich Haper 36:00

Exactly what you said. Some of these influences don't even they're not even registered in the UK. They've got like they're licensed in like Malta or something like that. Instantly you know what why are you not you're not in the UK, you're not here. It's because it's because it's all yeah, I'm not saying it's a scam, but it is a scam.

Haydn Woods-Williams 36:18

It's a scam. It's a really scam. Yeah, cool.

Two Takeaways And Closing

Haydn Woods-Williams 36:21

Very quickly, bang. We're gonna go bang, bang, bang, bang. Question. Okay. Right. No pressure. Okay. Put loads of pressure on. This is this is a real power switch because this is my boss and my boss's boss. So I'm just making the most of this. Um, two things our listeners can take away and have front of mind when they're thinking about their next uh agency relationship. And if you take more than 15 seconds, I'm gonna cut you off. So think about this sharp. Uh 15 seconds per point.

Gareth Llewellyn 36:55

Gareth. Talk to people you know, try and get a recommendation, like try and get a referral from someone. And second point, take your time talking to the agencies, build a relationship and a rapport with them so you get to know them. Are they people you want to spend time with?

Haydn Woods-Williams 37:14

Rich.

Rich Haper 37:15

Same question.

Haydn Woods-Williams 37:16

Exactly the same question.

Rich Haper 37:18

Um Gareth's on my point. I was gonna say build a relationship. Um, I think it's important with all of the technology to establish that that human-to-human connection. Are they the right fit for you? Um, if they're not, don't just be driven by price, walk away.

Haydn Woods-Williams 37:35

Oof, I was this close to buzzing you there. Um, I forgot to count at the start though, so it may not have been 15 seconds. Um point two?

Rich Haper 37:46

I don't have a point two. Excellent.

Haydn Woods-Williams 37:49

Excellent. That is all we have time for today. Thank you so much for listening. Uh, we hope you found some useful snippets uh and are able to think a lot more diligently uh when you're choosing your next agency. Um we love that you've made it this far through the listen. We love making this content uh and would love it if you could recommend the show to a friend. Or as Tom has been saying recently, if you didn't like it, recommend it to an enemy. That way no one is disappointed. Um, thank you to the Brood Digital team for their research and input into today's session. Uh, and make sure to check out our past episodes, subscribe on whatever platform you use to listen to your podcasts, and we'll see you on the next one. I'm Hayden, and these are the Marketers of the Universe.