The AI Slop Argument

The internet swore Supergirl was a disaster, so we did the most dangerous thing possible: we watched it and formed our own opinion. We talk through what actually works, what doesn’t, and why “the villain sucked” has become the laziest default critique in modern superhero movies. We also get into how audiences now expect a very specific tone and soundtrack from certain studios and creators, then act shocked when a film aims for something different. 

Then we pull back to the bigger industry question: why do theaters feel quieter even when the release calendar looks stacked? We break down box office underperformance, ticket prices, shrinking urgency to see movies on opening weekend, and the brutal math for families deciding between a night out and a premium at-home rental. If you’ve felt your own movie-going habits change since COVID and work-from-home, this part will hit. 

The heart of the episode is a long, messy, surprisingly technical debate about generative AI in filmmaking and art: copyright and IP infringement, “AI slop,” energy costs, hallucinations, and the difference between inspiration and duplication. We even test whether AI can write a new installment of our show and learn where the guardrails are. We wrap with a left turn into the whitest thing Lou did all month, a knitting festival in Estes Park, plus AI-generated pickup lines that should probably stay in drafts. 

Subscribe for more movie talk and chaotic deep dives, share this with a friend who argues about AI, and leave a review with your line in the sand: where do you draw the ethical boundary with generative AI?

Voice intro and music

Intro music by Alex Grohl

AlexGrohl - Pixabay

Transcript

International Listeners And Growing The Show

SPEAKER_02 0:00

Just the two of us.

SPEAKER_04 0:03

We can make it if we try. Just the two of us copyrighted. They won't watch this in Russia now.

SPEAKER_02 0:13

But they'll watch it in Albania or something. I was like looking at the stats, and we have like one person who listens every single week. And they're like in Albania or some shit. And I'm like, what?

SPEAKER_03 0:27

Who like say something, please? Yeah, I was like looking through all the stats and stuff just a couple weeks ago. And I was like, oh. And then I went back to the week before and I went, oh. It's like okay, cool. We're worldwide. Just saying. We're international stars. We should try to get um press badges for uh Comic Con now. Yeah, we're media. Yeah. Cause um, I mean we started it's third year, so we are legit. We're getting where nobody cancel us.

SPEAKER_02 1:12

Yeah, I mean we have our followers have actually increased, or at least the number of listens has increased. Yeah. Even over what we were at the very beginning. Like, of course, our first episode has the most, but I mean, we used to, especially on YouTube, because that's the easiest for me to look at. Right. Like, between the audio and the video one, we'll get like five. We used to get like maybe three views. Now we're getting like eight to ten after a couple weeks.

SPEAKER_03 1:40

So I'm like, I mean, some somebody must like hearing what we have to say. Yeah. Somebody likes us. Besides me. And old girl. Yeah. And my brother. My brother listens.

SPEAKER_04 1:56

Yeah. Yep. Oh, good. There's three of us. He did say he was going to stop listening after we were talking shit about him uh last week, two weeks ago.

SPEAKER_03 2:08

Don't be a bitch, Milt. There you go. Hey, Jack. Hey, Duke. Hey, Lou. There you go. He's just he's just been a guest.

SPEAKER_02 2:30

Alright. So Lou's joining us late, so we can talk real quick about. Um let's talk real quick about Supergirl before he gets here because he hasn't seen it. And it'll be he probably won't listen to this before Tuesday, because I think he said he was gonna see it on Tuesday. Yeah. So what'd you think? I liked it.

SPEAKER_04 2:50

I liked it last week.

SPEAKER_02 2:51

Both Eric and I really liked it. We didn't see what all the fucking hate was about. Like, was it a great movie? No. No. But I mean, like,

Supergirl Review And Why The Hate

SPEAKER_02 3:00

people were like, oh, the villain sucked. The villain is sucked in almost every single superhero movie since Iron Man. Does anybody fucking remember Mickey Rourke as Whiplash? No. No. Ronan the Destroyer? No. No. Like the guy from the Thor Dark World.

SPEAKER_04 3:18

There was a bad guy in that movie?

SPEAKER_02 3:19

Yeah. You know, like the only ones, the only ones that are memorable are the ones that they even put like effort into. And even then, like you'd be like, Ultron, I wish they would have spent more time building Ultron up instead of trying to cram him into one movie like they did with Thanos. At least Thanos got an arc. Yep. Like when you take somebody who's as iconic as Ultron and you're just like one movie, two hours, he starts, he's dead. Like, yeah. I don't know. To me, like it's not, you know. It's a bit of a disservice. Yeah. And and the DC side's the exact same thing. Cheetah.

SPEAKER_04 3:56

Well, the Batman 89. They made Joker, they killed Joker.

SPEAKER_03 4:03

You can't do that to Joker.

SPEAKER_02 4:05

Yeah. Well, I mean Joker. The only way you have that work is if it's somebody who is who does like a once-in-a-lifetime performance, like Heath Ledger. Like he's the outsider to all of this, right?

SPEAKER_04 4:22

Like But at least they didn't kill him. Yeah. Right? I mean, he was still alive. Heck, he brought I think Scarecrow, Killian Murphy was in all three of those movies. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 4:33

And he was the bad guy in the first movie. Yeah, he brought him back into the fold. Yeah. I think those are the only superhero movies they don't kill the bad guy in. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 4:45

So, I mean, I I I thought her acting performance was fine. I thought the acting was fine. The other complaint that I saw a few times where people were like, it wasn't like the comic and it wasn't bright, which I think we talked a little bit about last week. And I'm like, yeah, it kind of looked like Guardians. But also, like, now at this point, James Gunn has like a style.

SPEAKER_04 5:05

But the flip side is it's not even his movie, right? I mean it's a good thing.

SPEAKER_02 5:09

But I'm just saying, like, but but when you're running the studio, right? Like Feloni and Favreau have a style for their movies, right? It's a certain color palette, a certain type of film grain or film texture. Yeah, yeah. You know, again, it's the difference between watching a TV show on like ABC versus NBC. Right. Like it's like it's like different cameras or different lenses or some shit. But I that was only, you know, was it I think uh one of the guys I was talking to who hadn't seen it yet, he was like, Oh, they said the story was really sad and there wasn't any humor. And I'm like, but there was her story was sad. Yeah, like her story is sad, like it's you know.

SPEAKER_04 5:51

I still laughed.

SPEAKER_02 5:52

Yeah, there was humor in it. There was it wasn't it wasn't that it wasn't funny, yeah. Like, but I think I don't know. I I feel like people now, because of Guardians, they have this expectation of what a James Gunn movie is going to have. And like we talked last week about the um the soundtrack. Like, or did we talk about that last week? No, no, no. We talked about I think via text.

SPEAKER_03 6:18

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 6:19

Where where like the soundtrack, like it was genre songs, but it almost felt like they were royalty free. Right. If that makes sense.

SPEAKER_04 6:31

Yeah, there were some weird covers.

SPEAKER_02 6:32

I think there there were there weren't it wasn't like the Guardians movie where like all of the all of them are like oh yeah, I remember that. Like Which is not a bad thing. Um that's not me. Um but but yeah, so I I didn't mind it at all. Like I would definitely re-watch it again. Yeah. Um and I'm excited for what they do about uh excited for what they do about Man of Tomorrow. I don't know. I mean I guess uh to me it's like the hate machine just gets too like I read something today, I saw the headline, I didn't read the article, where they were talking about I guess there's like two different versions of Supergirl.

SPEAKER_04 7:11

Oh, I saw that too. Like James, like they saw it, and then James Gunn's like, eh, we changed it, and we got the James Gunn edit. Yeah, there's like another one from the directors.

SPEAKER_02 7:21

There's like a studio focus group edit somewhere.

SPEAKER_04 7:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 7:26

So it'll be interesting to see if that ever comes out and what the differences are or what kind of stuff was cut out of it. Because again, it was a really short movie, too. Like it was real, it was only a little over an hour. It was a little over two hours? Not even two hours.

SPEAKER_04 7:40

Yeah, it wasn't super long, maybe just under.

SPEAKER_02 7:42

Yeah. So, which was fine. Again, it that meant the movie kept moving, right? Or kept going. I never felt like there was a dead time. I never got bored. Right. Like there was never a point where again we talked about this during Manu and Grogu. There were multiple times where I'm like, why are we still here? Why are we still doing this? Like, you know. Yep. So I don't know.

SPEAKER_04 8:06

I mean, maybe we're just weird and we're outliers. Uh it it goes back to the stuff she was saying in the press, I guess.

SPEAKER_03 8:15

Which I didn't think was that bad, honestly. Um but yeah, I I don't know. It was a perfectly fine movie. Somebody having an opinion.

SPEAKER_04 8:28

Yeah. And people do hate on movies starring women just because it's starring women. You see it happen all the time. The only time it was really justified was the Ghostbusters remake. That movie sucked. And it was all women.

SPEAKER_02 8:44

But it wasn't bad because it was all women. It was a bad movie on its own. Yeah. But I mean, I think like outside of a couple outliers, I mean, they were even talking about how minions didn't even make any money this weekend. It only made like $30 million or something, which is it.

SPEAKER_04 9:01

Well, you know what? I will say what we went to go see it today. Our showing was 11 30. There was not a lot of people in there, and most of them was adults.

SPEAKER_03 9:12

Which was weird. Um there were more adults in there than kids.

SPEAKER_02 9:19

Minions and Monsters made $36 million this weekend. Dang. And that's a minion movie. Everybody loves minions.

unknown 9:30

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 9:31

That's been out a couple of weeks, though, soy-four percent. That's not good. Nope.

SPEAKER_02 9:41

But yeah, I mean, look, just looking at like the total gross of movies that have been out for a while, I mean, even like the Devil Wars Prada, too, which is like probably the biggest female driven, like focused, like for you know, only made $220 million. So I don't even know if this is like crazy.

SPEAKER_04 10:05

Because um when we went to go see the uh Grogu preview in IMAX, all these chicks came through in their pajamas, and I'm like, what are you guys doing? Like, oh, we're all gonna go watch Devil Wars Product 2. And it was a ton of people going into that movie.

SPEAKER_03 10:21

But yeah, it'd only be 200 million? That's crazy. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 10:26

The top five movies so far. Well, and again, like, so you have the Super Mario Galaxy movie, which makes sense because like kids, right?

SPEAKER_03 10:36

Um but even that did worse than the first one.

SPEAKER_02 10:41

Yeah. Because it only made 420, it's only made 429 million dollars so far. Uh Michael is number two at 370. Uh Toy Story 5 is now number three at 335. So that I mean, but again, these are also all outside of Michael, the Super Mario and Toy Story are already built in and kid driven, which means they're you know, I mean, we used to talk about that shit with when your kids were little. Like you're going to the movie two or three or four times over a course of a couple weeks to see Toy Story 3, Toy Story 2, Frozen. Like, you know. Uh Obsession made 245. I mean, to me, that shows that uh that an indie movie, I don't know how much it costs, but I'm there's no way. A million. Yeah. So that was the best money Jason Blum has ever spent in his life. Um, so it wouldn't surprise me to see that turn into some sort of weird franchise. Which they kind of had with the monkey. Like the monkey, I think, kind of started that because obsession is kind of the same thing, right? It's an old, it's like an old thing that kids would buy or based on like the old buy for a nickel or buy for a dime at the end of the day.

SPEAKER_04 11:57

Actually, I heard they're already making a second obsession movie. Um different characters and stuff, but same kind of universe.

SPEAKER_02 12:04

But then Devil Wars Prada 2 is only $220 million, Backrooms is $198, Star Wars uh Mando is $176. Like, I mean, it's just I mean, Avatar made 404, but it's been around for a while. Like, um, but I also think some of those movies kind of get skewed because of the IMAX and the premium formats. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, so I don't know. I almost feel like it's more of a movie thing, but we like to focus on the particulars. Right.

SPEAKER_04 12:41

Like, well, five years ago, these movies would have made a billion dollars. Exactly. Well, six years. Nobody does. Six years ago. Yeah. Hey Lou. Welcome aboard. Did you even pack anything, Lou? Your your house looks exactly the same.

SPEAKER_01 13:00

Four or five boxes to the right, uh two bookcases that are empty, a print, three prints on the wall, and then my setup and the kitchen stuff. Everything else is gone. If I if I turn the I won't turn the camera, but yeah, it's in the bed, the bedroom, there's

Moving Stress And The Craigslist Couch Problem

SPEAKER_01 13:20

like a box for work once I figure out what office I'm taking. The bed, my clothes, and tables gone, other tables gone, all that gone. Yep. If I really wanted to, I I I could be done. I could be done. I could have been done this weekend if I really wanted to. It's like, well, I know I have two more weekends, so why push it? I'm already tired, I'm old, the shit hurts when I move. Remember, I told you I couldn't use my step machine uh because of my right knee? Well, trying to carry boxes up and downstairs, right knee went to hell, so so let's slow it down for a bit.

SPEAKER_02 13:57

Next week, Lou's gonna be sitting on a cardboard box, a milk crate.

SPEAKER_01 14:01

No, this couch ain't going with me. This couch is going in the trash can. So so this couch will still be this couch. I don't know if the background stuff will still be here, but the couch will be one of the last things that goes because it'll be two in the morning, and I'm gonna be taking it out to the sidewalk so somebody else can get it thrown.

SPEAKER_03 14:25

Let's be real.

SPEAKER_01 14:26

Property crit. Yeah, I was gonna say let's let's be real. First of all, it's not an HOA, it's an apartment complex, so don't, so it's okay. Second of all, y'all both know I'm too lazy to move this couch, so I'm gonna hire somebody to come get the couch in the bed and just take it out of here. Because I think that's the only looking around, pieces of furniture, bed tossed, couch tossed, coffee table, I'll probably keep for the basement. Bookcase, three bookcases. Yeah, all I have really is the bed and the couch. I'll just pay somebody to come get it.

SPEAKER_02 14:58

You could just throw that up on Craigslist for a hundred bucks, and I bet you'd get it. Because my little couch?

SPEAKER_01 15:04

It's a 12-year-old couch. I doubt that.

SPEAKER_02 15:06

Oh, so uh when I first moved back up here, my sister was like, hey, my friend's leap moving out, and she has like a nice couch if you want it. And it wasn't, I mean, it was the only thing that made it nice was that it had two recliners. So like it was a recliner with one seat in the middle, type of thing, but it was like it was brown, it was something that would be in your like your auntie's house, right? But I was like, whatever, I don't I need a couch, I don't have a couch. Um, so I had it, and for a while there, I was I had like a big mouse problem. Like, and it wasn't even like me leaving food out, like just for what there was like a hole in the kitchen that they could get through. So like I have video of them like mission impossibling up the wall between the fridge and the wall to get to the top of my fridge where I had my cereal and chips and shit. Like, cause I got up one night and you'd always hear them like like you'd just hear shh and then you'd get into the kitchen and they'd already be gone. But one night I caught that motherfucker, I turned the lights on, and he's like back against the fridge, and he's like, I'm like, you fucking Tom Cruise little motherfucker. Like, fuck you.

SPEAKER_04 16:20

Like when he gets out the elephant gun, like Looney Tunes, start blowing holes in the wall.

SPEAKER_02 16:26

So we ended up finding where the little hole was. We filled the hole, but I ended up like having to clean out my closet because there was like they had like gotten anything that wasn't plastic, they had made a hole in, and it was it was bad. Like I because I was getting sick and I was like, why am I getting sick? And I'm like, oh, it's because like my carpet in the in the kit in the um sorry, carpet in the closet was just completely like it took like three shop vacs and two regular vacuums to get all the shit and all the bullshit that was in the and so I bought a new couch and they were gonna deliver it and so I'm like, well, I need to get rid of this couch. So I put it on Craigslist for a hundred bucks or 150 bucks. They show up, they're grabbing it and starting taking it apart. Well, I never cleaned the inside of the couch out, so all this rat shit and just like shredded paper and everything starts falling out, and I was like, Oh my god, these people are not like I'm fucked. And they're and I'm like, oh, I don't know where that came from. And they're like, ah, it's fine, it's fine, it's for my friend's brother or whatever, so we don't care. So they gave me the 150 bucks that took the couch, and I was just like, Man, that's fucked up.

SPEAKER_03 17:41

I hope you I'm like, I hope you vacuum that out before you give it to him. Or just like that.

SPEAKER_04 17:53

Fucking clean us from the Simpsons.

SPEAKER_03 17:56

That don't matter, Ma. I was just like, uh hey, hey, hey, yeah, 150 ucks.

SPEAKER_02 18:13

Yeah, I think you could probably even and that couch was easily 10 years old, if not older. So I'm sure, Lou, if you you put it on a 14-year-old couch, really?

SPEAKER_01 18:23

12 years old. Yeah, hold on. What's 2000?

SPEAKER_02 18:25

I mean, what you would hurt in college town, bruh.

SPEAKER_01 18:27

Yeah, you're in a college town. People beat I don't know, man. This thing's beat to hell. My fat ass is broken all three. Well, that's not true. Two, the left one where I sit and the middle one where I sit. The right one is a nice There you go. That's what you have them test when they come to sit in it.

SPEAKER_02 18:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 18:45

If that's the case, I'll just throw it out. I'll just throw it out and write, put free on it. So whoever wants it can just take it.

SPEAKER_02 18:50

No. So I have a quick story about that. So we when my my parents well, my parents had a my parents had a wood-burning stove in the in the house, and they got a pellet stove to replace it, and they told my sister, get rid of the get rid of the fireplace, we don't need it anymore. It was one of those little black, like the iron, the iron, black iron metal ones.

SPEAKER_04 19:09

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_02 19:10

And she posted it on Craigslist for for free. She's like, all you gotta do is come pick it up. It's sitting outside, like you don't even need to interact with us. And she got like no hits. So she listed it for $50 within an within an afternoon. She got four hits on it. Like, so if you put it free, people think it's junk. There's something wrong with it. But if you put it for like, even if it's a super good deal, people just think they're getting a good deal, right? It's the difference between listing something at $10 and listening something at $9.99. $9.99, people think they're getting a deal. $10? Ah, you're ripping me off. Like, they actually have had studies where they show just an economics classified 30 years ago, and that wasn't $50,000.

SPEAKER_01 19:51

People are stupid.

SPEAKER_02 19:52

So if you put your couch up for free, people are like, oh, he's just trying to get rid of junk. You put it up for $50. Yeah. Lou's put the title of it Lou's old fart box.

SPEAKER_01 20:11

I'm just looking at this thing inside.

SPEAKER_03 20:13

You know, I'll get a futon for the basement in case I want to sleep down there. They have some nice ones.

SPEAKER_01 20:20

I was looking at nice, what's what's it called? Uh, recliners that turn into beds these days. I'm like, oh hello. Have myself a little movie theater going on downstairs, so I don't want to deal with people. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 20:34

That never happens, Lou. You love working. You love me so weekly.

SPEAKER_01 20:38

That's gonna happen so weekly. Oh my god.

SPEAKER_03 20:41

Three days a week. Maybe four. Every other week.

SPEAKER_02 20:50

So, Lou, if you listen to this podcast before uh Tuesday, don't listen to the first 15 minutes because we talked about Supergirl. So what's spoilers?

Banking Overtime And Comic Con Plans

SPEAKER_02 21:00

Yeah. So we can have a bigger conversation about it next week if you want.

SPEAKER_01 21:03

All right. Even if I was on that first 12 minutes, I wouldn't have cared. I'm still gonna watch it on Tuesday in theory. Uh we'll see how work goes because that's why I was late. I'm doing work because they are they are so messed up over there. Uh they need help.

SPEAKER_04 21:19

Don't Louis extend yourself. Yeah, Louie ain't even been at a job for a month and we're already work-life balance.

SPEAKER_01 21:25

No, no, no, no, no, no, no. I'm getting credit for the time I work out of hours. So my PTO don't have any for San Diego. So I talked to I talked to my boss's boss actually um on Thursday, and he said anything you do extra, um uh just we'll we'll adjust that for the five days you're gonna be gone at the end of the month. I'm like steal. That was a little effing steal. After that, ain't my problem. Yeah, if you ain't getting anything out of it, don't fucking do it, dude. Nope. All right, yeah, yeah. After that, then it's then it's like, hey, didn't have time to Day to get done. If you want more time of the day to get done, then adjust my freaking portfolio. Which actually something he talked about because there's one property that takes up 40% of my week. And he said, That's ridiculous. I go, I'm just telling you what's going on, man. So he's gonna look into our contract. So well, yeah, but I because I would not have worked anything tonight if I wasn't getting value out of it. And because I can get some time, uh like Thursday. Thursday we're supposed to be off at three. Nobody told me. So there was a meeting that was scheduled for seven o'clock that night, and not by me. Uh somebody else scheduled it. And that person's on vacation, didn't realize the office was closed early. Um and it was like, well, I'm not gonna cancel the meeting last minute, that's kind of effed up. So he was all like, dude, just count that towards the hours when you submit your time off.

SPEAKER_04 22:48

Is it time and a half, or is it just street time or no?

SPEAKER_01 22:51

Because the meeting counts as regular time. Even if I worked uh like during the week, like I have a meeting this Thursday. You basically if you want to, you basically adjust your time. Because remember, I work a 36-hour week. So four of those are for meetings.

SPEAKER_04 23:05

But this extra work you're doing, is it time and a half, or is it just no, no, it's just regular time.

SPEAKER_01 23:11

Because it's volunteer, basically.

SPEAKER_02 23:13

Well, they're curious and they're and they're accruing it as PTO, right? Yeah. So you can use it for when you're gone.

unknown 23:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 23:20

So that makes sense why it's straight time. So tonight, if you did three hours of work, that's three hours that are going to be applied to you won't get paid for it now, you'll get paid for it during Comic Con week.

SPEAKER_01 23:30

I'm I'm banking it all, and then when we get to that pay period, then I just okay, hey, uh after hours, blah, blah, blah, for this pay period leading up to this. I worked an extra 12 hours, and it's like, okay, then you get that time instead of zero, I get 12 hours.

SPEAKER_03 23:46

So yeah, kind of cool. I get time and a half for PTM. I wish.

SPEAKER_01 23:54

Something I would negotiate in the future. Like, let me let me get let me realize, let let me make them realize that they need me, and then it's like, all right, here's how we're gonna do this. Yep, I will not do that. I I will not listen to the headhunters because you're gonna add an extra five days of PTO to my uh salary.

SPEAKER_02 24:15

I've been here a year. Here's all the metrics of things that I've improved since I've been here.

SPEAKER_01 24:21

Oh, yeah, 100%. But uh, as I was saying, Supergirl, in theory, I expect to be able to go on Tuesday. Um, and I can't say that I care if I'm spoiled or not. Like I I've seen enough already that like with Supergirl Killing Dude and and Lobo kind of being there, and people are wondering why he's there and doesn't need to be in the movie, but he was good good in the movie. Um, blah, blah, blah. I'm like, all right, I I saw enough uh and read enough uh that I was like, alright, you you have to either this group likes it or this group doesn't, you know, and this group likes, or there is no no lot in between. It's just you like it or you don't. So I'm gonna find out in a couple days. I still don't like Millie as a fucking whatever. Well, it that that whole comment, dude, that whole fucking making fun of dads and Christians, it's like you could have not shown she was not making fun of dads and Christians, she was making fun of a certain type of person on the internet that she all pointed out to were dads and Christians.

SPEAKER_04 25:32

She didn't say it was them, she said it's always the guys that do have dad of four Christian. She didn't say all Christians are all dads. She said it's always the guys on Twitter or Facebook or whatever that says father of four Christian.

SPEAKER_01 25:50

She could have just not said that.

SPEAKER_04 25:53

She could not have.

SPEAKER_01 25:54

Well, there you go. Then that's all you gotta do.

SPEAKER_04 25:56

She wants to talk shit about a certain subset of people.

SPEAKER_01 25:59

Right. I don't see I don't do that. I don't talk shit about a certain subset of people ever. That's not my style. So she shouldn't either.

SPEAKER_02 26:13

You almost made it, Lou. You almost made it.

SPEAKER_01 26:16

Oh, almost, almost.

SPEAKER_02 26:17

I'm sure your heart was your heart was hurting. It was it was gonna have a trying to try to maintain that shit. You're gonna have another heart attack right here on the fucking podcast.

SPEAKER_04 26:28

Where's my nitro tablets?

SPEAKER_02 26:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 26:30

Oh my god. Yeah, but but seriously. I'm coming, I'm coming, Louise. It's the big one, Elizabeth. It's the big one, Elizabeth. Come to see. Um, but yeah, no, I I have a feeling that I I I'm gonna wonder, like I've like I've done with like a lot of movies like Marvel's, for example. I'm gonna wonder why people hated this movie when I when I'm done watching it. That's that's what I'm I guess is what's gonna happen. I'm gonna see me, I'm gonna have my issues with it, but they're not gonna be enough to be a problem. I'm gonna be like, yeah, this movie was fine. What are people bitching about? I have a feeling that's what's gonna happen when the movie's over.

SPEAKER_02 27:03

Um well, we were ending where I was talking about like minions only made like $36 million this weekend, which is nothing for people over minions, though. But no, but I'm talking about in general, movies outside of a couple outliers, have just been underperforming the entire year. Like they're every single week they come up with like, oh, these are the reasons why. And it's just like, well, I don't think people are going to the movies as much as they used to. Again, we used to be a Friday movie group. Like my group of people, we would go every Friday. Now there's three of us that go on Tuesday. So we're not contributing to the bot because it just was like, we were like, because it was a change in the dynamic of life, right? Like it used to be you wanted to see the movie over the weekend, so Monday when you were in the office, you weren't the one that was like, oh, I didn't go see it. Now,

Why Movies Feel Empty Now

SPEAKER_02 28:00

because of you know, work from home and just general dynamics, that type of thing, um, you know, your work environment has changed, your life environment has changed. There's no more urgency to go and see it on a Friday night. It's no longer a it's no longer a um social.

SPEAKER_03 28:20

Social, but also like habitual.

SPEAKER_02 28:23

Like 20, you know, COVID broke a lot of that. Yeah, FOMO, you know, or just like being the first to be in the seats, right? Like I didn't even go see Man Doing Grogu on opening night. And that's the first Star Wars movie I haven't seen on opening night, you know? Like, but also I was like I mean, is it what's what's the harm in waiting until Tuesday and spending half the money, right? Like, and that's the other part. It's just so fucking expensive to go to the theater. Like, it's ridiculous. Like, you guys do your Monday movie night, but I'm guessing you're not paying $15 to go to it. No, $10. Right. But if they were $15 and you didn't know, would you still do it, right? Or $17 or whatever, you know, like I would think hard about that.

unknown 29:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 29:08

I don't know that I would say no.

SPEAKER_02 29:10

But but you also wouldn't go in blind every other week, right? Because that's $30, $30, $35, $40 every month that you're spending on movies that you don't know if you're gonna like or not. You guys have gotten extremely lucky with the run of movies that you have gone and seen where there's only been a couple of them that you were kind of like, mmm. But other than that, you guys, I feel like in general, have been have have have had positive experiences with the movies that you guys have gotten to see, including ones that you would not include ones that you would not have seen normally, like movies that you didn't even weren't even on your radar.

SPEAKER_01 29:45

So Which has been most of them, actually. Yeah. But I mean, like I knew about them, but I don't know that I would necessarily I mean The Furious is first in line because it's because it's fresh. I would not have gone to the theater to see that movie, but I'm glad that it was a secret move.

SPEAKER_02 30:02

Well, I mean, like I mean, even I mean.

SPEAKER_01 30:04

Same with young Washington for those who like America.

SPEAKER_02 30:07

We were gonna get into that. Let me finish my point and then you guys can talk while I sit here and drink my water. Um but I you know, I uh like with Jack's group, that's four people. At $18 a pop, that's that's $60 going in the door, not even counting. But I'm saying, like, with fees, with all the bullshit, right? Like no fees. Potential, potential fees, right? Like we wait until we get to the theater. A lot of people don't, right? I was looking at Odyssey tickets. A bunch of the showings we were gonna plan on going to see, they're already like sold, like the the majority of the seats, like the decent seats, right? In the middle, in the mid-mid are already gone for most of those screenings. And I don't know. I've got a few yeah, but I've but I've we've been to a few movies where we have looked at the seats and gone, ooh, we should go a couple days before and go buy our tickets, right? And then we show up to the theater, and so I don't know if like the theater is like doing some sort of weird gaming thing to make it seem like demand is higher than it is, because we'll go into the movies and sit, and the movie will start and we'll look and like hey, like the five seats next to us were already showing as being booked, but then nobody ever sits in them. Nobody shows up. Interesting. But but my point is that has happened enough that we've had conversations about it where we're like, oh, like, so I wonder if that might be the case, but maybe the Odyssey is gonna be an outlier and is gonna be one that it's gonna be full on a Tuesday night, you know. Um but not according to what I saw, right? Again, this is just me looking up tickets and seeing what's available as far as seats go.

SPEAKER_01 31:56

Uh the big picture, and obviously by tank I mean it'll lose money or barely break even. Like it's expected to be a billion-dollar movie. If it hits 600 million, I'd be surprised. But I was so yeah, I think that's a good thing. But that goes to your point, though, of people not going to the movie theater.

SPEAKER_02 32:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 32:15

I don't think it's gonna tank because it's bad. I think it's gonna tank because in six weeks they can watch it at home. Your family of four that you're talking about, that would spend eighteen dollars times four if you have whatever, which is $72 for four tickets, or I don't know what the at-home cost is for streaming. I don't do that. So is it five bucks? 20 bucks. Let's just say 20 bucks. Yeah. Oh, you're buying it when you do that? You're yeah, you're buying it when you do that?

SPEAKER_04 32:40

Oh, I thought when it comes up on Fendango, it's you buy the movie.

SPEAKER_01 32:44

Oh, okay. So when they say streaming at home, that means buy it at home.

SPEAKER_02 32:48

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 32:48

Well, okay. So 20 bucks.

SPEAKER_02 32:50

There's a window that you there's there's a window that you would buy it, so it's like uh PBV, so pay-per-view, and then it'll eventually exit that window and go to one of the streaming services.

SPEAKER_04 33:02

Okay, well, right now I'm fending you can buy a Double Wears Prada 2 for $30 or rent it for $25.

SPEAKER_03 33:10

How would you not buy it? Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 33:13

Either way, for Jack, it's $40 savings. So you could just not worry about it and just watch it at home. Um, I don't know. I don't know if I'm gonna watch the Odyssey because I'll wait till I, again, word of mouth is what's gonna get me in the theater on that one. Uh too many changes. Where do these? Yeah, say Lou. Um two people will have to tell me it's good. And I know who those two people are.

SPEAKER_04 33:38

Possibly on Wednesday of Comic-Con, I was gonna find an IMAX theater and go watch it.

SPEAKER_01 33:44

This motherfucker right here. Pure pressure. Although you know, you know, you know I wouldn't pass that up.

SPEAKER_02 33:50

I would go, but I think we're gonna go see it in 70 millimeter.

SPEAKER_01 33:56

Wait a minute, wait a minute. Is that when it comes out? The week before Comic Con? Yeah, the Friday before Comic? Yeah, the Friday before we head out.

SPEAKER_04 34:03

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 34:04

Well, no. Well, near in mind, I'll be on the road. I'm like, why don't we just watch it Tuesday? Because I'll be still arriving until midnight. I mean, how how could we watch it?

SPEAKER_03 34:17

Suddenly it's not a hard no anymore.

SPEAKER_01 34:19

Like, how can we watch this movie? Oh, you're if we watch the if we watch the morning. Yeah, if we can watch the morning show on Matinee on Wednesday, yeah, then we can make it to get our our stickers, uh, badges, and all that shit right after the movie. Yeah, all right.

SPEAKER_02 34:35

That's that's that's couple hours from a couple hours from now, you're gonna be you're gonna get some movie listings from Blue in the text chat. Hey, actually.

SPEAKER_01 34:44

No, what you're gonna get is hey, Lou got tickets. I'm sending an I3 and I4. No, no. If I get tickets, I'm getting everybody's. That's how it works. We get everybody's at the same time, right? So it'll be like, hey, so yeah, we got six four.

SPEAKER_02 35:00

You owe me $72. Actually, it's IMAX. So you owe me, you owe me $92.

SPEAKER_01 35:06

Oh my god. I forgot IMAX. Jesus, like a $30 ticket.

SPEAKER_04 35:11

I'll have wife get it. She has the AMC Rewards Club or some shit. So all the tickets are the same price.

SPEAKER_01 35:18

But yeah, I know, because you know how it is. Some people, like the last trailer that came out, I was watching something. They had like 60,000 likes on the trailer and 460,000 dislikes. I was like, ooh, that's that's not good.

SPEAKER_04 35:29

I know. I wanted to find that trailer and watch it since everybody hates it so much.

SPEAKER_01 35:32

I was curious. I was curious, and it really wasn't.

SPEAKER_04 35:35

Not enough to actually go watch it.

SPEAKER_01 35:36

So uh I watched somebody else watch it, and it was like, it wasn't that bad.

SPEAKER_04 35:43

We didn't want to give uh give Norman another watch.

SPEAKER_01 35:46

You weren't you weren't getting credit for me. But the people but but it was stupid. People are bitching about Black Helen of Troy, which I get that is incorrect. Um, and that's one of the issues I have. It's it's Helen of Troy, not Helen of Detroit. Um and then you got All right.

SPEAKER_02 36:03

I'm gonna look that I'm gonna get that, I'm gonna bomb by and Lou that t-shirt right now.

SPEAKER_01 36:10

But then there's obviously Ellen Page, uh Elliot Page playing whatever male role Elliot Page is playing. Um which is ridiculous to me because you've got uh you know reasons. But again, it doesn't matter. If the movie's good, who who hell who the hell cares about the casting, right? In theory.

Casting Fights And Online Outrage

SPEAKER_01 36:30

Because Helen's not a Greek, Helen of Troy, the whole Greek story, not it was like everybody knows it's been described. Helena Troy was not a black person. They talked about her fair skin and blah blah blah and all this crap. Uh yeah.

SPEAKER_04 36:46

What's she even a real person? I don't even know.

SPEAKER_01 36:48

The whole the whole story is is fiction, so you know it doesn't matter. Um in theory, because you you can't you can't say it doesn't matter, but then you have a black story, and it's like, hey, let's change that to a white person, and then people lose their damn minds. You can't have my that's my only issue. You just can't have it both ways. That's all. Do it all or don't do it at all. You know what I mean? All or nothing. Just don't bitch when, okay, we're gonna make this person uh white. Why? Because that person's a bad guy. Oh, it was black at first, but now they're a bad guy, so you make them white. That happened so much the last five years. Um it was like, oh, okay. But if you're a good guy, it it's it's like it's like the whole Elliot Page thing, right? The the alphabet community bitched about why are you casting straight people to for gay roles? Just cast a gay person. I'm like, all right, if that person, I mean it's acting, so I don't know if it matters. A gay person can be in a straight role as far as I care. You know, it just doesn't matter. Just who fits the role, who does whatever. But then don't don't bitch about it. Just make sure, like Elliot Page playing the role, whatever role character people are saying, uh, Achilles. If Elliot does a good job playing Achilles, I will say who to get who gives a shit, right? At the end of the day, who gives a shit? But just don't be a hypocrite about it as well. That's all I'm saying. Just don't bitch when a straight person takes an alphabet role. That's all I gotta say. Just don't be a hypocrite. Be okay with that.

SPEAKER_04 38:12

Elliot's not gay. He's just trans.

SPEAKER_01 38:15

But Elliot's still part of the alphabet, right? That's true. So that's what I'm saying. So that's all. It's just like, okay, Ellie did this. Everybody happy? Yes. This person's playing a gay role. Oh no, no, you should hire a gay person. That's where it's like, you hypocrite, shut the fuck up. That's where I have the issue. So we'll see what happens. At the end of the day, if the movie's good, it's it's gonna hit that billion dollar mark, and nobody's gonna care that Helen's black and Achilles is a woman, uh, biologically speaking. Nobody's gonna give a shit if the movie's good, period, point blank. And I'm not either. I'll still bitch about it because it's fun, but in reality, I'm just if it's a good movie, you will get my dollars multiple times. Simple as that. Just be a good movie. We'll see. Like Supergirl turns out. If Supergirl turns out to be a good movie, they'll I will go more than this, more than Tuesday. If a turn is like, holy shit, that was good enough for me to go um and watch it again. I mean, they've earned my extra dollars, so just earn it. People bitching, oh my god, people are hating it because it's a female-led blood. No, that is not why people hate movies. Some people, don't be wrong, there's a small percentage that'll hate it because of that. But but one of the comments that somebody said was if they made aliens today, it would be hated on because it's a female lead. Like, no, that's not how that works. Female-led movies are just fine. You just have to write a good fucking movie. That's the problem. I mean, male shit, male leads or female leads, black Adam wasn't good. I mean, and that had the rock.

SPEAKER_02 39:50

So, no, I thought it was just wait, I thought it because I had the word black in the title.

SPEAKER_01 39:55

That's why Living like that. You would have thought that would have made it good.

SPEAKER_04 39:58

I mean it was like Adam was white. When God made people, he was white. Who is this guy?

SPEAKER_01 40:03

That's what I'm saying. I saw the trailer, the first trailer of Black Adam, and I was all like, here we go again. We're gonna race a swap. Woke ass kidding Garden of Eden in the woke ass movie. And that was like superheroes. What's the rock is playing the snake? What? Right. It's so confusing. It's so confusing watching that shit. And the rock still has no nipples. Black Adam. Next you can next it's gonna be White Eve and has an interracial couple going on. It's even worse.

SPEAKER_03 40:30

No, you wouldn't. That's gross.

SPEAKER_02 40:41

Yep, somebody's gonna be making comments on the uh YouTube on the YouTube channel.

SPEAKER_03 40:47

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_02 40:49

And then all of a sudden Lou's like, and now I'm unpacking boxes again. I had to withdraw my I had to withdraw my termination of my lease. I had to build the couch right upstairs. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 41:05

Zero chance that ass. Somebody is busting their ass to make sure it's up to my standards. Apparently I have OCD or something and I'm very particular about things. Whatever.

SPEAKER_03 41:18

No.

SPEAKER_01 41:19

What?

SPEAKER_03 41:19

That's weird. I never heard that before.

SPEAKER_01 41:21

Right. Me neither, in the last hour.

SPEAKER_02 41:26

When you've been by yourself asleep.

SPEAKER_01 41:30

Beside the point, beside the point. Point was I didn't hear it. That's all.

SPEAKER_04 41:36

So I wasn't listening.

SPEAKER_01 41:38

It's a factual state. What?

SPEAKER_04 41:41

What?

SPEAKER_01 41:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 41:43

Did you say something?

SPEAKER_01 41:45

No? Okay, good. Overall, Duke though, Supergirl, you you enjoyed it? It was pretty good. Pretty good showing. Yeah. Alright, good. I'm interested.

SPEAKER_02 41:52

See, I uh we were one of the things we talked about is there was an article today. Uh I think it was the Hollywood Reporter. I didn't read the article, I just saw the headline, but it basically said like in March they had like two competing versions of the movie. So they had the movie that uh look Jack who directed it, Greg Craig Gillis. Campbell? Something that like his version or the James Gunn version, and then there was like the studio version, and we got the James Gunn version, but according to this article, there were two completely different versions of the movie. So it'll be interesting to see if that other one leaks out at some point. Um what the differences were because according to that article, according to the article, neither of them were very well received for different reasons. So I'm not sure why they went with the James Gunn version. Uh so that that I guess I'd have to go pay to read the article, but I'm not gonna do that because so many of these links that are in Google News, you click on them and they're like, Would you like to read more? Only $12 for a year. And I'm like, nah, I'm good.

SPEAKER_04 43:01

Nope, don't care that much. I'm out.

SPEAKER_02 43:03

So I'll stay in my ignorance.

SPEAKER_01 43:05

A dollar a month. Yeah, still too much.

SPEAKER_02 43:07

Nope. Yeah. Well, but again, like I don't there's not a news source that I just go to so frequently outside I pay for the athletic because I like following my sports, right? They're that's good. But but again, like that's really it. As far as like news goes, it's so scattershot as far as consistent, reliable news reporting, right? That isn't letting opinion and isn't letting bias into the like I just want to know what happened. Like, if there was an accident, I want to know what happened to the accident with the accident. I don't need to know all of the mocha nations of the person who was driving the car, right? Just tell me what happened. Um I just wait for Lou to tell me what to think.

SPEAKER_03 43:56

Yeah, easier.

SPEAKER_02 43:57

I was gonna get through the stuff we did this. Week before you open that up, Jack, and now I gotta shut up. Go do it.

SPEAKER_03 44:04

Lou, tell us about your Monday movie. You had a Monday movie. I was gonna say, what's this we stuff?

SPEAKER_01 44:17

Somebody hates America. So Monday's movie last week was Young Washington. About six people walked out as soon as it started, but I wasn't as surprised because I'm

Young Washington And Secret Movie Night

SPEAKER_01 44:30

in Boulder and they're Democrats, so they hate America, obviously.

SPEAKER_02 44:33

And the only reason he knew that was because there was only seven of them in the theater. So Lou was by himself.

SPEAKER_01 44:40

The dude that I usually do the secret movies with, it was his girl and his girl's friend. They left immediately. And then I think, well, you know what? Two of those people came back. So maybe they just went to the bathroom or refreshed their drinks. But at least four people did not come back. At least four people did not come back. So the movie, the movie was good. It wasn't great. Young Washington, they they probably needed to do more of uh just the just the Revolutionary War type of thing. I mean, I appreciate what they did and all that, but it was like this movie's not gonna do well because this is not the story people want to see.

SPEAKER_02 45:18

Real real quick, have either of you seen a trailer or knew anything about this movie before?

SPEAKER_04 45:22

Did you send us the trailer? I feel like it was on one of the lists that you sent us. Oh, no, but it wasn't on the trailer.

SPEAKER_02 45:27

It was, and I think we talked about that because we were like, oh, this looks this trailer looks like ass out of all the trailers because it was just really it was it was AI slop, like through half of it.

SPEAKER_01 45:39

No, we didn't talk about that because that had never rocked had never come up. We hadn't talked about AI.

SPEAKER_02 45:45

There was a trailer I did send you guys when we watched it, and I was like, oh, like this is not good. Like No, it wasn't that one. Okay. I don't I'll have to go back and look at my list.

SPEAKER_01 45:54

So yeah, I I'll be the first time. I didn't even notice anything. When Jack said it, when Jack told me afterwards, I was like, I'll take your word for it. But again, the movie was just okay. It's not gonna do well because it's not what people want. It's not the story people want. It's like, alright, you know, whatever. There was no cherry trees.

SPEAKER_02 46:14

No cherry trees.

SPEAKER_01 46:15

I thought it was a lot of people. No cherry trees or wooden teeth. But he but he what he's too young for.

SPEAKER_04 46:22

I would need to wait for middle-aged Washington. Yeah. That's what I'm saying, right? I read they're already making the sequel because it made like $30 million this weekend. On a on a budget of what? 50?

SPEAKER_01 46:35

Because that's not a lot of that's not good.

SPEAKER_04 46:38

No, it's gonna make its whole budget back.

SPEAKER_01 46:41

Well, it has to get to 100. Remember, half of it. It goes to the theater.

SPEAKER_04 46:44

But um Angel was giving away free tickets all weekend, so they bought out their own movie.

SPEAKER_01 46:52

Oh, that I believe because at the end of the movie, Kelsey Gramer, who's in the movie, was kit was coming on talking about, you know, pay it forward, like buy somebody a ticket.

SPEAKER_03 47:03

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 47:04

I was like, okay. Wait, is is it Angel that Churchy fucking they're religious, they're a Christian. I mean, I I'm just I don't know, man. But again, that explains why Democrats would have walked out.

SPEAKER_02 47:25

The number one, the number one um uh the the the critic review that pops up on uh that pops up on Rotten Tomatoes for it says by the time Washington is fighting the French in slow-mo or in slow-mo gunfights, doing sick horseback stunts while sick with dysentery, any pretense that the film should be taken seriously is out the window.

SPEAKER_01 47:51

Wait, first of all, that's like the last 15 minutes of the movie. You get to that point. I just like how it's phrased. Although the phrasing is great, and when I saw that, I thought the same thing. I'm all like, this motherfucker is like Zaro, and he's supposed to have dysentery, and they just kind of just ignored all that lack of the stuff.

SPEAKER_04 48:11

George Simon dysentery.

SPEAKER_01 48:13

I was saying trail growing up, Oregon Trail? That's not exactly. They're like, man, George Watts, man. That that last 15-20 minutes was absolutely ridiculous. As in it should not have happened. But it was kind of it was it was kind of that whole um uh Mel Gibson, you know, where all the troops were running away and fleeing, and he turns around with the flag and comes forward. Um, it wasn't exactly like that, but there was a whole I gotta go protect my men type of scenario. And I was like, all right, that was pretty cool. Well, shit.

SPEAKER_02 48:42

Especially after what happened earlier. Okay, I found a better one. I liked the part where George Washington bred his double muskets and said, It's Washington time. Okay, that didn't happen, but okay, it's funny. This movie is about as accurate as a drunk truck driver in a men's urinal. A drunk what? A drunk truck driver in the men's urinal.

SPEAKER_01 49:08

So, anyhow, so Jack, Jack didn't go because uh he was told not to because of uh AI. Yeah, that that thing. And that brought up a whole other bag of words because I'm all like, who gives a fuck? Um and it was, I believe the reason was

Generative AI In Art And Film

SPEAKER_01 49:30

because you're taking away jobs. Was that the reason?

SPEAKER_04 49:33

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 49:33

So one of the many reasons. Does that mean your child hates technology because it takes away jobs, period?

SPEAKER_04 49:40

No. Because it's a creative job. So rather than hire from a business standpoint, it's a beautiful thing, right? But from a creative standpoint, you're taking away people creating art for you. Because, like I sent you that picture, people are just prompting AI to make pictures to make special effects for their movies rather than hiring digital artists to make those movies.

unknown 50:16

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 50:16

So instead of having a group of people working on it using their original ideas and their own work, you just have one guy in his mom's basement telling Chat GPT what to make.

SPEAKER_01 50:34

If somebody has their own arc, their own arc style, and you're just telling Chat GPT to use your own art style, but draw this picture, tell me how that's tell me how that's bad. That's not that is just morally generative.

SPEAKER_04 50:51

It is, but morally, because you didn't actually draw it, you had your computer do it. But like we said, if something happened and you can't, right? It was just 4th of July. Everybody got their fingers and you don't have your fingers anymore, but you still want to create, I can't see an argument against that. But if the three of us decide, well, we're gonna open up an art studio and we're gonna sell Star Wars art and we just go to Chat GPT and start selling Star Wars art that we'll learn and pull from other people's work, that is wrong. It's stealing copyrighted information.

SPEAKER_01 51:33

Because people, real people, from thousands of years ago to now, they would have picked up styles from other people that they like to say, ooh, I like that. I'm gonna I'm gonna draw in that particular style. No different than comics, right? You have certain comics who have a But you're okay with plagiarism then. It's not plagiarism. It's it's a style. Generative AI is a. Here's an example, like with the with comics. You have Dimitri Marchant, Dimitri Martin, who basically quote unquote copied the style of uh Mitch Hedberg, which is you know, non-sequitur, play on words, that type of stuff. But it was stuff that Dimitri Martin came up with, not stuff that uh Mitch Hedberg came with. It's just similar styles. No, he nobody caught he didn't steal his jokes. He just has the same style of jokes with the play on words and stuff like that. So if that's what you're doing and you because somebody still has to tell the AI and have the skills to tell them what you want, uh which I don't have, so somebody does. That's the skill in itself.

SPEAKER_04 52:41

You do. You do go download chat GPT and tell to draw you a picture.

SPEAKER_01 52:46

If I tell Jack ChatGPT to draw me a picture of a blonde in a bikini, a blue bikini, um, that's not enough detail. Uh what like what size is this girl? What the details to me, that's what matters. Now, this is also me assuming that's the type of detail you need for chat GPT. Like, I if you give me something generic, it's like, no, that's not what I want. I want this, and that's where I mean where you that person who's programming it needs to be creative as well. Because I want this, and I want this in the background, and I want this here, and I want this here. I want a reflection of the person in a side view mirror of a 42 Ford, you know, whatever. All those details. That's amazing, Lou.

SPEAKER_04 53:30

You just fucking did it. You just said what you could not do, you just did it. That's all those guys are doing, probably.

SPEAKER_01 53:36

But but who am I copying to do that?

SPEAKER_02 53:38

They're not gonna be. Also, hold on real quick, real quick. To your point, Lou, your Dimitri Martin point. Okay? You said Dimitri Martin is using his style or had Mitch Hedberg's style, right? Like their personalities are similar. Very similar. But Dimitri Martin wrote all of his own jokes. The difference is, is if Dimitri Martin only had Mitch Hedberg's in data in Chat GPT and just said, write me a funny joke like Mitch Hedberg without actually putting in any effort into it, the difference is the AI only knows what it's given. So if you give it all the Mitch Hedberg stuff and you say, I just want Mitch Hedberg jokes, it will generate jokes for you based on the information that it's given, right? So if you give it all of his stand-up and all that kind of stuff, right? The difference is Dimitri Martin wrote his own stuff in the style.

SPEAKER_01 54:38

So he was somebody has to go in there and tell Chat GPT what to do. But they don't before I but the difference is that with AI, no, no, no.

SPEAKER_02 54:50

The difference is with AI, you're saying give me jokes like Mitch Hedberg. It's only going to give you, it only knows what you've given it.

SPEAKER_01 54:57

That's that wasn't my argument. My argument, the comparison that I made was Dimitri wrote his own stuff. Therefore, with the gender of AI, that person is writing their own stuff. No. So AI has okay. Who told the AI what to generate?

SPEAKER_04 55:14

When you fed it all of Mitch Hedberg's stuff.

SPEAKER_01 55:18

No, no, that's not what I'm talking about. But that's how generative AI works. The description that I went through with the girl, the bikini, the car, the reflection, that was what I that's that's the Dimitri March and Martin telling the information. But if it doesn't know what a four generated stuff without being told, correct? Correct.

SPEAKER_02 55:40

What what because you can't tell it something it doesn't know, though. That's the rub.

SPEAKER_01 55:50

So my argument to that is everybody, every artist has learned from a different artist. That's what I'm saying. It's like my inspiration is from this. Okay, great. This is your inspiration. Now I'm gonna draw this thing based off of this inspiration. Okay, I am going to create whatever based off of whatever inspiration.

SPEAKER_02 56:15

It's the same thing, and and also their own input. Like, that's the difference. Of course. But a generative AI doesn't do that. You say, draw me a draw me a girl with a blue, a group uh a blue bikini with a 42 Ford looking in the rearview mirror. If you've never given generative AI a picture of a 42 Ford, it's going to give you whatever the little bit of information that it has.

SPEAKER_04 56:40

That's when it gives you like this weird orange two-wheeled car that says Ford on the windows.

SPEAKER_01 56:45

The time I check an image of a 42 Ford is a public record. So it's not like I'm stealing from anything.

SPEAKER_04 56:51

But we're that's what he's saying is if you build AI with stolen imagery that is not yours, the AI only knows to take from that. It's not doing you aren't creating anything. You're just editing and modifying stuff that other people created.

SPEAKER_01 57:09

With with that, okay, with that rationale, every artist who's inspired by somebody else didn't create anything. They just stole from whoever they watched and learned from whom they to learn to draw. That that that would be that same argument then. And nothing's original anymore because oh, oh, that reminds me of that. Oh, you stole it from them. It's like, oh crap, I'm not allowed to get inspiration from anything. I have to come up with a brand new everything myself. Is that what you're saying? Because that's what it sounds like you're saying, because you doesn't sound like you're allowed to get inspiration from anything.

SPEAKER_03 57:44

If your generative AI was only given a coloring book, a episode one coloring book, you couldn't tell me you couldn't tell to draw you Darth Vader because it doesn't know it.

SPEAKER_04 57:59

Exactly. You only gave it a episode one coloring book. So all of it's everything it knows about Star Wars is from this one episode one coloring book. Everything's black and white, it can draw Jar Jar for you, it can draw Darth Maul, it won't know what color the lightsabers are, it won't know what Darth Vader is, who Luke Skywalker is, because that's all it knows, is that one coloring book you gave it.

SPEAKER_01 58:21

Because that's all you know? Because the people who tried to make Vader in episode three needed some kind of reference on how he was supposed to look at the end of episode three. Did they get that reference from themselves or did they see some other work?

SPEAKER_04 58:39

Well, it was made by George Lucas, so he can copy his own.

SPEAKER_02 58:43

But also, if you look, if you go back and look at like the behind-the-scenes stuff, and you and you look at how the but but even okay, we can even use Darth Vader as an example, right? So he's in episode four, he's in episode five, and he's episode six. His his outfit changes every movie, right? The location of his little lights, the shape of his helmet, the the darkness or brightness eye lenses, because there was different artists working on it that while they had the basic outline of what Vader should be, they had their own input on modifying it and improving it in whatever way it needed.

SPEAKER_01 59:22

If you don't give original and then decided to change it how they wanted to. But they were in for the inspiration from episode four. Interesting. So if I wanted to draw Darth Vader and I took a base foundation, but wanted to change a few things using AI, you guys would say that's a problem, even though that's the example of what exactly happened with the Vader suits.

SPEAKER_02 59:46

No, because it's different, because it's an artist that was doing it. But it's fine. Lou, you're I mean, again, again, I already said by the way, go back, go back, go back 45 minutes. And I'm gonna say, because Lou can't see shades of gray, everything's going to be black and white, so he's never going to see where Jack and I are coming from, except for if he's being a giant asshole, which is also entirely possible right now. So it's possible.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:14

But that's not what's happening. I truly believe because the example you just gave proves my point. Uh the artist took inspiration from the episode four suit or for whatever reason, well just for the sake of the argument, um, versus just it looked better in Empire than it did and uh New Hope. But and a different artist said, Hey, I'm gonna make improvements and do this. So if I took that same suit and said, Oh, I'm gonna make improvements and do this, does that not make me the artist now? Because I took inspiration, or like they did in episode five, they took this exact thing and changed it. Well, I'm gonna take this exact thing and change it. I don't get where there's a different I'm not and I'm not kidding about this. I don't see where there's a difference, and that's where I'm gonna do it.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:58

Generative AI wouldn't be able to make those changes because it doesn't know them.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:05

But but hold hold on, hold on, hold on. All of your episode five changes because I told it to.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:11

But it wouldn't know how. It wouldn't know how.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:14

Wouldn't know how to do what?

SPEAKER_03 1:01:15

To change it. Because you didn't give it that information. Mm-mm.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:21

Why not?

SPEAKER_02 1:01:23

It doesn't have that data. Like you are your brain is making those modifications, right? In your head, you're going, it makes sense to go from black to red, it makes sense to move the red light over here, it makes sense to move the switches down here. Generative AI doesn't have that as a baseline, it has pictures of Darth Vader. So if you said I need to modify Darth Vader, you would have to be specific in the modifications that you were making, thus, not relying on the AI to generate those images. That's the difference.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:57

Okay, stop right there. Because now I'm confused because that's

Inspiration Versus Plagiarism With AI

SPEAKER_01 1:02:00

what I thought we're talking about on what generative AI is. I tell it to do something and it does it.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:05

Generative AI, you give it the the generative AI looks for a prompt. So if you say, I want a picture of Darth Vader, the only based on whichever version of so let's just say Lou, Lou AI, right? So Lou AI has only seen episode four and only knows Darth Vader from episode four. You say, I need a Vader for episode five. So you chat GPT, give me a picture of Darth Vader. It will take all of the pictures from Darth Vader from episode four, and it will just put them all together and give you some sort of amalgamation of those pictures, right? Because he's moving, he's doing even if, and especially if he changed throughout the movie, because again, generative AI doesn't know the difference between two things, right? It just you just said, I want a picture of Darth Vader for my episode five movie, right? But you can't tell it that because it doesn't know what episode five is, it doesn't have any it doesn't have that information.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:07

You have to be a skilled artist so you can be very specific on what you say. Like I said, it's a skill. But then you're taking it out of the AI's hands.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:15

That's the difference, right?

SPEAKER_01 1:03:16

Oh my god, that was my point. That was my argument, right? I'm talking about that. I'm not talking about, hey, just do this generic thing or whatever. The way because because that's not how I understand how the way it made sense to me, the way I understood what GAI is, is you have to prompt it to give you whatever like details. Like, let's go back to the example I started this uh last week. Jack, you said that she said, or you or one of you said, the issue was you just say, I want the British and the Americans fighting against each other in a battle, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Doesn't somebody have to type all that in to say, I want this, all the specific details that go with that.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:01

Yeah, but who drew it? But not necessarily. Not the difference. That's the difference. That's the difference, though, is not necessarily, and that's the danger with AI, is that you can tell you can tell it anything. You can say, I want a picture from the Revolutionary War of the Americans fighting the Neanderthals, and it will generate that picture regardless, especially if it has all that information, right? So you fed it, you have fed it the Natural History Museum's library, right? So it has all the way back from when we were protoplasm till today, right? You say, I want to see Americans fighting Neanderthals. It can give you that picture because it has an awareness of what Neanderthals are and what Americans are, but it will only give you what it's like. Just like any human would do, just like any artist would do. But the difference is that it only knows what it knows. Like it only knows what you have fed it.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:54

Just like a human, okay, just like a human artist, but only knowing.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:19

There's no creative influence at all, right? And that's the difference, is that when somebody comes to you and they say, What's that?

SPEAKER_01 1:05:28

You said you said without creative influence, I disagree with that because the the person doing all this, I would like to think, and I don't know this, that they're also an artist and they'll see what the H G AI did. Like, nope, I want this instead.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:42

Have you seen have you seen the AI slop from the Call of Duty stuff that they've been selling over like the last year? So like I have not. I think it was last Christmas they came out with a so you know, every every month, every two months, whatever, six months, they come out with their package of stuff to buy. Like their different uh Christmas packages and you get like a gun skin. I mean, I'm using Call of Duty as an example of that. Oh, but that type of thing. But like the season pass stuff. Hey, buy buy this, and you get these little icons, and you get this dongle with your gun, and you get these skins.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:12

A different skin for whatever.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:14

Right. Okay, and some of the examples that that came from that are like there were there was a picture of like a Santa Claus, and he had he was holding a gun and he had six fingers. Because somebody just typed in, give me Santa Claus with a gun. But AI doesn't, because they weren't specific enough in how they were describing what they wanted, there was there's no what's the word? You wouldn't have drawn if somebody said, Hey Lou, I want you to draw me a picture of Santa Claus with a gun, in your head, you go, Okay, here's the gun, here's Santa Claus. I know humans have five fingers, I know Santa Claus's beard is white, I know his eyes are blue, you know all of this stuff. So when you're making that art, when you're creating that picture, there are things that you're aware of that AI doesn't necessarily take into account when creating its stuff based on the prompt, right?

SPEAKER_01 1:07:15

First of all, Santa Claus is black and his eyes are likely brown, but whatever.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:19

That sure. But that's here you go. That's but that's the difference. Right. You just proved your own, you just proved my point right there. Right? That's the that's the difference, though, right? If if the if the Lou AI generator had only been given pictures of white Santa Claus, it would only know about white Santa Claus. So if you come in and you say, well, actually, Santa Claus is black, it's not gonna know what to do with that because it doesn't have that in its database. You have that in your database, right? Like you have an awareness of things, right? So that's the difference.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:54

My prompt would say black Santa. So that's what I'm saying. I still have to do that.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:57

But again, if it doesn't have a if it doesn't have black Santa in the database, it's not going to know how to do it. Like black, black.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:06

What if they, yeah, is the AI not smart enough to take white people and make them black? Or Mexican? It would make them black like this. No, black like this.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:14

If it does, I mean again, AI only knows what it has in the database.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:18

What it's programmed to know.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:20

Right. So if it's not a good thing.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:21

Which explains why it takes uh five million gallons of water to fucking get those computer rooms. Because the processing's gotta be ridiculous.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:31

Well, and again, because the amount of data because again, their end goal is to remove all of these things, like residuals. Um it has nothing to do with the creative process because it all comes down to money for them. So if it's if we collect all of this data, because there's been multiple articles talking about how things like Meta, uh Twitter, all of these places have been stealing people's data to put into their AI generation, right? Like last year or two years ago, when they had the big writer strike and the direct and the um actor strikes, a huge part of that was AI. Um because again, it's like it's one of those things, it's like a sea change in how things work. 50 years ago, before Jaws and Star Wars and all of that, all of the actors used to work for studios. So like you would go and you would sign an eight contract, an eight-movie contract with a studio, and that changed as time went on. And so now this is kind of the next big but but it's not just tomorrow studio. It's not but Tom Cruise also has a vested interest in working with them because he owns part of it. The actors used to not own anything, they were just working for the studios. There was no that's how it should be. But beyond But my point is this is the next big thing is AI, right?

SPEAKER_01 1:09:54

Because once Yeah, I've heard that with people talking about uh selling their image likeness, right, so they could be digitized uh in per in in perpetuity, which is a crock of shit. Uh any actor who signs that, you you just lost your damn mind.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:09

James Earl Jones did that, or James Earl Jones' estate did that.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:12

That's different. James Earl Jones was like seven years old when he did it, and it he wasn't trying to go to a studio. He was too he was just trying to get paid and you use my voice. I'm fine with that. I'm saying like you've got a 15-year-old actor who's who the studio wants him to sign his rights uh in perpetuity, and it's like you don't that 15-year-old actor doesn't know what they're gonna be doing or their potential earnings and all that. That should be some kind of law that you're called into later on.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:40

But you're also removing him from the equation. So once you've made him sign his AI likeness away, right? You now no longer need him to keep creating content, even though it's not content. But you a lot of times they don't. But a lot of times that's the problem.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:00

That's that's where I have the issue. So is because that's if they did, I wouldn't care.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:04

And and I think that goes back to the the point that Jack Soldis was trying to make, right? Is that you have you have these situations now where the studios are using AI or forcing situations where they're using AI with stuff that isn't necessarily um what's the word? Sorry, it's I I it was a long weekend where they don't necessarily yeah, 100%. Yeah, that also shut up. I did bite the inside of my cheek, but I don't want to talk about that. Um you should have seen him. Yeah, that's the podcast after the podcast.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:48

The after dark, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:51

But that's the the challenge, right? Is is you have all of these artists that are going in and cleaning things up, and that's where the term AI slop comes in, right? Because AI doesn't AI is not good enough at this point to reliably create images or data. I'm just gonna say data, right?

SPEAKER_03 1:12:17

Because again, the voices are the same type of thing, right?

SPEAKER_02 1:12:20

Like that it is affecting people's livelihood in the order for the studio to save a dollar. I think is really what it comes down to.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:33

Here's my issue with this whole with this whole thing. You have an artist, if you told this artist to draw me a battle of Brits versus colonists, how does that what's that Americans not colonists?

SPEAKER_03 1:12:50

Fuck those guys. They're not Americans. They came to our country.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:55

They're they're they're the Brits versus the colonists. And you have somebody needs to draw that image, where do you think that artist is gonna get their inspiration? How are they gonna know what to draw?

SPEAKER_04 1:13:12

They took the picture of Washington crossing the river and said, take those guys and put them in a battle.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:20

Okay, so if you if if I'm a professional artist and you came to me and said, Hey, I need you to draw me a photo of or draw me a photo, draw me a picture of Brits and Americans um fighting that person, human, would not know how to draw that unless what they would look at other pictures to see what how they're dressed, yeah, exactly how they stand, you would need a lot they're not stealing that exact picture.

SPEAKER_04 1:13:52

The buttons might not be in the same place. Nobody I'm not gonna do different textures.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:55

They they're they're they they just need to get the idea of what to draw, what's it gonna look like, and then like uniforms, uh probably a bunch of pasty white people. Um it is it is what it is.

SPEAKER_04 1:14:07

Now it was some, they might have had a tan.

SPEAKER_03 1:14:11

G AI does the exact same thing. Tell me why that's a problem.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:19

It did the exact same thing the human did. Who drew the picture for AI? And then it created the same way human was.

SPEAKER_04 1:14:29

It duplicates it. It doesn't take inspiration from, it duplicates it. It doesn't matter. It takes those guys off of Washington's boat and makes them fight without changing anything. So why?

SPEAKER_01 1:14:40

If I program to change their faces, if I but no, but see, that's that that's a user issue, not a GAI issue. If the user said, you know, change their don't use exact likenesses, but I still want white dudes, and I, you know, blah, blah, blah, you know, because I like to think the computer's programmed to know what white

Breaking Down The Biggest AI Risks

SPEAKER_01 1:15:00

people look like, and I want a variety of different white people, different heights, you can do all that stuff. You tell it to it's no different than what the human could do. It's like, oh, you know what? I saw some, I saw this, this uh drawing all this from 1750 to 1800, and I want that style. You know, okay, okay, okay, cool. Uh the outfits didn't change all that much. If I'm doing that same thing as a human and I'm doing the same thing and telling the GAI to do that, I don't get where there's a difference. And that's where I lose it. That's where I can't comprehend. I'm having trouble separating those. Again, as long as you do it that way. I'm not talking about I think what Duke is.

SPEAKER_04 1:15:41

Hopefully there's a panel at Comic-Con. I bet there will be. I bet there will be. I hope you're you know what?

SPEAKER_02 1:15:48

I hope you're I hope your lawyer, I hope your lawyer people do that. Because that would be an amazing thing.

SPEAKER_04 1:15:53

No, because those are more fun. But but I'm saying like a serial topic.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:56

But if you want to, but if you want to make it fun, right? You want to have it be in a like I think there's ways that you can make AI, the AI conversation be accessible and also understandable. And I think those guys would would be able to do it based on what I've seen before.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:14

So Lou, I just found so I found I clearly don't hey hold that thought, because I clearly don't understand the GAI um, because it sounds like halfway through this, we're not talking about the same thing. Because the example like the last example I just gave with human does artist does this, tell the GAI to do this, they both do the same thing. I don't understand why one is a problem, one isn't. That that's where I'm not understanding. And it's probably because I don't quite, or we're not using this, I don't quite understand GAI, or we're not using the same definition of what GAI is. But you understand exactly what the hot dog sandwich conversation.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:56

All right, real quick. Well, not probably not real quick. So I found actually there's like a I found like a really good kind of uh layout of the top nine problems with AI, with generative AI. Number one, bias in, bias out. Generative AI tools reproduce content as based on their data they were trained on. So they have no way of modifying or modernizing, which we'll get to.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:21

You don't like that definition because you just said it reproduces, and I'm saying it doesn't reproduce. I'm saying it can create something original based on specs.

SPEAKER_02 1:17:32

Number two, black box. Generative AI decisions are opaque and unexplainable. They hinder accountability, trust, and potentially lead to unjust outcome.

unknown 1:17:40

I understand that.

SPEAKER_02 1:17:43

So basically, they're saying AI doesn't ever I AI will give you the picture, but it will not explain or show you the steps that it took to make that picture. Like, so you don't know.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:54

Was that I was gonna say, how is that not possible? Because the computer has to go through a process, and you're telling me the system doesn't record the process?

SPEAKER_02 1:18:03

But you're not but the problem is standard person isn't going the standard person isn't going to be able to understand what the AI is saying, right? No, no, because that information was there.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:13

Oh, right?

SPEAKER_02 1:18:14

Yeah. So the AI doesn't talk about how it gets from point A to point C, right? It just gives it Yeah, it just produces. Point three, expensive. OpenAI CEO confirmed that Chat GPT 4 costs more than a hundred million dollars to train. Kind of going to your power, what you were talking about with the power, because it's the same type of thing. Like, because that's all part of it, right? Is the data centers and that type of thing. Number four, mindless parroting. Generative AI's output is tightly bound to the caliber and volume of its learn of its training data. So almost kind of similar to number one. Its output can only be as good as its training input. So even if you gave it a whole paragraph of things that you wanted it to do in a very specific way, if it doesn't have that any part of that available, it's just going to put something that it does have in there. It's gonna go, oh, well, we don't have a picture of a 42 Ford, but we have a picture of a 89 Corvette, even though it's not because again, it it's gonna it's gonna back it up and it's gonna say, okay, what when he's asking for a 42 Ford, what do we think he's asking about, right? Based on the information that it's been given to us.

SPEAKER_01 1:19:27

Guess what? Neither can a human. Hey, I need you to make it a good one. I need you to draw whatever this then you could tell the eye to make it up. It's like, hey, just pick a car. If a human can just pick a car, then the AI can just pick a car. Oh, the the point you're gonna see me make it a lot is how they're both doing the same thing. Because that's how that was my argument, because I don't see the difference there. It's like AI can't do this because it doesn't know what a 42-4 is. Okay, I need you, human, to draw me a 42-ford. I can't do that because I don't know what a 42-ford is. Same thing.

SPEAKER_02 1:19:57

Uh alignment with human values. Generative AI lacks the capacity to model the consequences or ethical implications of its decisions.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:06

You shouldn't have to. It's a computer. What ethical what ethical issues could there be? This is more broad. This isn't black.

SPEAKER_02 1:20:14

This isn't this is more broad than just the art that we're talking about, right? Like Oh, okay. This is general AI in a general generative AI, not specific to art or recreating art. Okay. Uh power hungry. Chat GPT's daily cues are estimated to cost the equivalent of powering 33,000 US households a day. Uh hallucinations. Generative AI has the tendency to confidently skew inaccurate information or simply make up facts. Because again, if it doesn't know it, and it's the problem is humans, dude. Okay. Well, but again, people can get called out on that, though, right? And people can change their opinion. But it's a computer, it should know everything.

SPEAKER_04 1:20:59

Most so you're just gonna believe it.

SPEAKER_02 1:21:02

Right. So if you ask it a question, it gives you an answer, your your the human condition is a tendency to believe what it says.

SPEAKER_01 1:21:11

Well, that's just stupid human. I I'm not I'm not gonna blame AI on stupid humans.

SPEAKER_02 1:21:15

But I'm s but again, it's a problem, right? Because if you have people that are taking what chat GPT says or chat, whatever generative AI or something at face value, there is a danger that is giving you inaccurate information that could then potentially cause problems down the road, right?

SPEAKER_01 1:21:34

Is that any different than a human with it one time than a human sharing inaccurate information also?

SPEAKER_04 1:21:41

Something one time. And I'm like, but what about this? And he's like, oh my god, you're right. It is this.

SPEAKER_01 1:21:46

Oh, you did that recently, actually. Remember you telling us.

SPEAKER_02 1:21:49

Um, this is the one we've kind of been talking a little bit about. Copyright and IP infringement. Several generative AI models, appropriated copyrighted material and intellectual property with no consent, credit, or compensation. I think that's the big thing that probably Jack's oldest has a problem with. And number nine, static. Generative AI models cannot update their knowledge in real time or generate new ideas, which may need lead to uh misinformation.

SPEAKER_01 1:22:18

So because if it's programmed to learn, as in you know, new information like news articles, whatever the case may be, information that happens, is it is it not I again I don't know that it doesn't do that.

SPEAKER_02 1:22:30

But that goes back goes that goes but that goes back to the power hungry black box, that kind of stuff, right? That so it's not doing it in like Jack's example where he had to point it out that it was wrong. It might not, if if we were all if all three of us were asking the same question at the same time, and Jack's the one to point out the problem, it is entirely possible that we will still get the wrong answer until it is updated all of the variables, right? I'm saying variables because I don't know all the parts of the AI path, right? Um because all of that needs to be updated. The database needs to get updated before it can share that information, otherwise, it still doesn't know it. So depending on the latency of that information going back down the path to populate out the database to then have it available to it, it's still going to give you incorrect information. Does that make sense?

SPEAKER_01 1:23:25

Well, blames I still blame it on the people. Then then that person is the idiot. Because I tell you right now, if I get when I get email, when I get whatever, when I search whatever, and the first thing that pops up is the AI summary, I skip it. I go right down and read the information myself, and it's on me if I decide to choose the AI summary or whatever, because I'm but I'm not an idiot, so I'm not doing that. I'll go I'll go read the source material and then go from there. So that's see, see, what my my point, my point there is I don't care, and it shouldn't be an AI. That's not an AI issue, that's a dumb person issue.

SPEAKER_02 1:24:01

But we've we've always had dumb people, that's the problem.

SPEAKER_01 1:24:04

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:24:05

Because dumb people are still gonna be dumb, Lou. We've we established that on episode one three years ago.

SPEAKER_01 1:24:11

Dumb people gonna dumb. Oh man. So yeah, so I think I think uh more information is needed. Uh I need to be I need to understand exactly what we're talking about, the GAI, because the examples I give are stuff that like human does this, GAI does it, same thing. I don't understand the problem.

SPEAKER_02 1:24:31

And and to be honest with you, out of the three of us, Jack's oldest probably knows so much more about AI stuff than we do combined.

SPEAKER_04 1:24:38

Agreed. So she didn't want to come on the podcast, though I offered her. I think I'm just gonna wait until we're all right.

SPEAKER_01 1:24:45

The problem is she's not logical, she's emotional. So she would I would destroy her because I'd bring up logic and she wouldn't know what to do, and then she would just leave. Because she can't handle that type of confrontation yet, because I don't come at you with an emotional position unless I'm fucking.

SPEAKER_03 1:25:06

Was G AI gaslighting AI?

SPEAKER_02 1:25:08

Is that what your that's what your G AI is, Lou? Generative AI? No, no, no. I was I was just making I was talking to G. That's G L A I. That's a different alphabet AI.

SPEAKER_01 1:25:26

Glay A.

SPEAKER_02 1:25:27

What's Lou doing? He's training as Glay.

SPEAKER_01 1:25:30

Yay! But but the thing, here's the thing though. I am open enough, like I said, the examples I gave, I'll defend my position. If there's a different definition of how we're describing or whatever, and different types of GAI, um, that's different. I may take that same position that his oldest took when it's something like if we're if we're talking about like just do X, Y, Z type thing, or you are copying something directly. Yeah, not a fan of that. But the whole programming because the human had to get the inspiration, the person typing in, the GAI had to get the inspiration. Same to me, that's where it's the same. It's when you start doing the, and I don't know an example of it, but when you start basically, like Jack said, uh, absolutely plagiarizing, that's where I'm gonna have a problem. I'm gonna have a problem with what what I think, Jack, you had your example, you said it earlier tonight. Uh you took the people from the Washington crossing the Potomac and you just put it here. Yeah, that I would not be a fan with. That I would if that's if that's your oldest argument, I would agree with her.

SPEAKER_04 1:26:37

Yeah, because that's all you gave your AI bot. If that's that's all it knows. If that's all that's all it knows, and even if you said give them different faces, it's just gonna take this guy's eyes and this guy's mouth and swap them without creating anything new. Right?

SPEAKER_01 1:26:54

So that's you could you can argue that's what if you if you draw somebody, right? I guarantee if you if you if you're good enough three of us, if we were good enough artists that we could draw faces, I guarantee we're gonna draw somebody's face who actually lives or lives. Oh, yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_04 1:27:11

That's just but if you're taking those five guys off of the boat and you're just swapping their features, all you did was do a creative character in your fucking WrestleMania game from 2005.

SPEAKER_02 1:27:21

And I think something else to think about too is if going back to your prompt, if all three of us, for example, are given prompts of we want to see X with Y lined up with A B.

SPEAKER_04 1:27:33

Why does that have to be math related?

SPEAKER_02 1:27:35

Lou's gonna be just I'm I just I don't want to algebra. No, nope. How do you get to how do you get to V? Lou's like, I got you. Even if we were given specifics, all three of us would draw something completely different. If you had two AI or GAI systems that had the same data and you asked it to do the exact same thing, you would get.

Local AI Models And Privacy Tradeoffs

SPEAKER_02 1:28:00

The same results from both of them.

SPEAKER_01 1:28:03

Is that proven? Yeah. Well, that's cool. Yeah. But that's- I don't think I don't think that would be true because timing might change something. Uh instantaneous speed could change something. But if it is just based off of a finite database, I would like to see if that actually happens. That would be cool. But it but the difference is that the three happened.

SPEAKER_02 1:28:24

But the three the difference is if the three of us were given those same prompts, our output would be completely different because all of us have different experiences in our lives and we have different um perceptions of things and different memories. And that's one of the big things. I think that that's one of the big things I'm gonna guess that Jack's oldest would make up, right? Or would or one of her arguments would be would be that even if an artist was being inspired by somebody, there's still influences from their own life that a that generative AI can't have the ability to do because it doesn't have those experiences because it just has data.

SPEAKER_01 1:29:03

One of these times I'm gonna deep dive that if you haven't already, because I would like to know how true that is. If I put something into uh what did you chat GPT, um uh and then a week later put it in again, if it's gonna give me the same thing.

SPEAKER_02 1:29:19

But I'm talking about right now in this exact moment, right? Like, of course, a week from now, ChatGPT is going to have a different set of data than it has right now because it is constantly every single time somebody types something in and makes adjustments to it, it's learning and making appreciations.

SPEAKER_01 1:29:40

I that makes sense. I gotcha. So I would I would need two browsers type the exact same thing and hit enter at the same time and see if it gave me the same thing.

SPEAKER_02 1:29:50

But you can you don't need to go into a browser because there are actually generative AI programs you can download that have a static set of data. Why would you want that? Because for example, if you're offline, update. But but here's the thing though.

SPEAKER_04 1:30:07

No, because I'm trying to rip off the same guy over and over again.

SPEAKER_01 1:30:12

Can I say that again?

SPEAKER_04 1:30:14

I'm trying to rip off the same guy over and over again.

SPEAKER_02 1:30:16

But but also if you're doing like some sort of development where maybe you only want a parsed down narrow section of data that you don't want polluted by stuff that's being in inserted into it all day long, you might want a certain set of data from a certain window of time to generate your results, which means you would want to have that separate from the whole, right? Like it's you're basically just cutting a piece of that database out and and having it stored on your computer so it's a static, repeatable result.

SPEAKER_04 1:30:47

But you only want the R volume of the encyclopedia.

SPEAKER_02 1:30:50

You don't want all of it. I mean, but but it exists. So that was my I all I was doing was give I was giving you other avenues there, Lou. There's an ability to do that.

SPEAKER_01 1:31:00

Appreciate it. I I don't know why anybody would do that. Uh this is gonna be this you want to keep your database as big as possible, you would think.

SPEAKER_03 1:31:12

Only if you're a megalomaniac and you're trying to take over the world and launch Skynet. Well, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:31:18

Well I guarantee there's some 58-year-old out there just like playing with the system, trying to get it to take over the world. Okay. So this is a watch Terminator 2, then he watched Pinking the Brain with his kid, and now he's Lou, real quick.

SPEAKER_02 1:31:36

I again this is just me. This is just me doing a random this is just me doing a random search for I said why would somebody want to download a local version of an AI um AI software? And the first article came up with why local AI, the case for running large language models, which is the LLM, which is what AI is at home or in the office. And the number one is privacy that stays private that stays local. So let's say you're a you're a government agency and you can't have stuff that you're doing searches on be added to the whole, right? Because they're sensitive information, that type of thing. Or maybe the data that you're putting in is sensitive and can't be shared, right? Which is a lot of government agencies have databases that they can't share, like because it has sensitive information, per people's social security numbers, uh videos of them in the world, that type of thing. Security in your control, right? So kind of in the same type of thing. So privacy that stays local, so you know exactly what you're dealing with every day. Security's in your control. So if you have things like uh air grabbed environments where it doesn't reach the internet, but yet you still have to have that program running on your you you still see benefits of having the AI and having access to it. You might have an instance of something where they don't have access to the internet from that machine, but you still need it to do AI work, right? Uh cost efficiency over time. If you have it downloaded locally, you're it's going to be much faster because again, you're dealing with a smaller subset of things, and it's not going out to look at all of the databases and all of the data centers around the world. It's looking at your local machine or your local network. Uh offline access. So if you uh if your internet goes down and for whatever reason you still need to have the ability to do AI searches and stuff.

SPEAKER_01 1:33:41

Um PlayStation.

SPEAKER_02 1:33:46

Performance you can tune. So a lot of these AI models is just you get it, and that's it, right? There's no you can't go in and tweak and tune what it's searching and how it's searching. It's all very, very flat. Uh so this gives you the ability to do that. So that's some examples of why you would want to have it downloaded in local versus yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:34:07

To me, it's just a whole you want as much information as possible to generate a more property.

SPEAKER_02 1:34:14

But there are environments and situations where Yeah, no, we spent 30 minutes on it, 35 minutes on this topic. This is gonna be the smartest fucking podcast that we ever release. This might be the one that gets us, this might be the one that gets us uh that that gets us over the hump and and now we're gonna blow up.

SPEAKER_04 1:34:29

Are we gonna have to like talk about smart stuff all the time?

SPEAKER_01 1:34:32

We're we're we're about we're about to get fucking monetized by Chat GPT.

SPEAKER_02 1:34:35

Oh shit. Soon we're gonna become uh vaguely technology, right? Vaguely TED Talk. Thank you for coming to my TED Talk.

SPEAKER_01 1:34:45

Vaguely technology in the ether.

SPEAKER_02 1:34:47

Yeah, that's what it's gonna be.

Testing Whether AI Can Write Us

SPEAKER_01 1:34:49

Vaguely in the ether. Vaguely technological. Hey, like, hey, hey, hey, uh, G A I, I need you to create a 90-minute episode of these three dudes talking about I bet it could do it too. Talking about that.

SPEAKER_04 1:35:04

I cannot. I've tried and it wraps up super quick. It ends up being like five minutes. But I've told it I need it to go so long, and it won't do it. All the AI episodes I've done.

SPEAKER_01 1:35:20

You did like two or three episodes and it was like seven minutes max.

SPEAKER_02 1:35:23

But you end up having to do most of that work yourself, right? Yeah. Uh I mean, based on the prompts I give it.

SPEAKER_01 1:35:30

Um But but so so how would it work? So would you just have it watch all of our pods to get our personality types and all that? Did it do that automatically? It has all of my stuff.

SPEAKER_02 1:35:41

No, it does because that's how it generates the titles of the podcast.

SPEAKER_01 1:35:45

Because I saw I saw maybe five years ago, if not three, I don't know, but new rock stars, and Eric Voss did a thing with it where he uploaded his like videos that he's done before, so it learned his style and then told it to spit out a you know a review on something, and it wasn't too far off. It was wild how close that shit was, and that was five years ago. So imagine now. Right. Well, I thought it was interesting, but yeah. Cool. This will be a topic that I hope that they do have something at SDCC because I would like to educate myself and I and I would like to make sure we're we're we're arguing the same point, too, you know, because it's like I don't think we were and all said and done, but a lot of it was. But I think there were some key points that we weren't on the same page.

SPEAKER_02 1:36:39

Oh, you know what? Let me clarify this. Give me one second. Well, the problem is I just said give me a 90-minute episode of Vaguely Inconsistent.

SPEAKER_03 1:36:51

But I should have said vaguely inconsistent the podcast.

SPEAKER_04 1:36:55

Who the fuck else still are we gonna go J and silent bob on these bitches? Are you your mom sucks 69? And did you say vaguely inconsistent as fucking clown shoes?

SPEAKER_01 1:37:10

I will hitchhike my way all the way there too. Uh that's okay. I know the rules.

SPEAKER_03 1:37:20

What does it say? Oh, here we go.

SPEAKER_02 1:37:28

If you mean a brand new if you meet a brand new episode of the existing podcast, vaguely inconsistent, featuring its established host characters and reoccurring bits, I can't write a new installment that in uh that imitates that specific show's creative expression. We're too wild for it. ChatGPT can't handle this shit.

SPEAKER_01 1:37:50

Too Unaquay, we are too Unaquay.

SPEAKER_02 1:37:55

If you're interested, I can absolutely create an original 90-minute comedy podcast that captures a similar feel, such as conversational improvised humor, absurd tangent, recurring callbacks, bizarre hypothetical debates, playful arguments, and chaotic storytelling. They know us while using entirely original host jokes and segments.

SPEAKER_03 1:38:21

That's pretty funny.

SPEAKER_04 1:38:23

And then make sure Lou tells racist jokes. Like that time I told him to have him say woke every two seconds.

SPEAKER_01 1:38:32

Didn't it was that the one that had a Russian accent? Like a Russian accent.

SPEAKER_03 1:38:36

Yeah, you're you're an old Russian lady. Yeah. Alright, let me see if I can do a five-minute episode. There's some tools on here where I can AI our voices though.

SPEAKER_04 1:38:52

Like if you say something wrong, I can change it. Oh well, that's cool. But I can't make a whole episode with your AI voice because that would be illegal or immoral or something.

SPEAKER_01 1:39:02

What if we gave permission for it?

SPEAKER_04 1:39:05

I don't know how that works. Are you ready? Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:39:08

I can't write a new episode that closely imitates the distinctive style or creative expression of an existing podcast, like vaguely inconsistent. Again, too fucking much for it. If you're looking for something with a similar energy, here's an original five-minute comedy podcast scene featuring its own host, premise, and jokes. The podcast is called Questionably Reliable. Welcome back to Questionably Reliable, the only show where we confidently explain things we learned approximately 30 seconds ago. And host number two is it already knows about tonight's podcast because host two is John. I spent all week preparing for tonight's topic. Maya, that's impressive. John, unfortunately, I prepared for next week's topic. Maya, what's next week's topic? John, medieval plumbing. Maya, and today's topic? John, why everyone suddenly owns at least one water bottle that costs more than their first bicycle?

unknown 1:40:21

What the fuck?

SPEAKER_01 1:40:23

Such a Colorado thing, too.

SPEAKER_03 1:40:25

And they always put those stupid stickers on. Oh my gosh. Before we wrap up, today's completely unnecessary debate.

SPEAKER_02 1:40:36

Real quick, Maya, before we wrap up today's completely unnecessary debate, if chairs disappeared forever, what's replacing them? John, beanbags. Maya, offices become chaos immediately. John, board meetings are now everyone rolling slightly away from the conference table. Interior designers everywhere just fainted. It was worth it. That's our show. Remember, if someone waves at you, make sure it's actually you.

SPEAKER_03 1:41:00

And if not, compliment the clouds.

SPEAKER_01 1:41:06

I can't recreate your show. There's couches, benches, there's so many things to sit on. Stoves. Until you find a chair.

SPEAKER_02 1:41:17

Oh shit. Oh, you guys are you guys are too smart for it. Chat GPT can't handle this amount of awesome.

SPEAKER_04 1:41:25

When when Skynet launches, we'll be the only humans left alive because I can't imitate us yet. Yep. Sorry, we have to keep you guys alive.

SPEAKER_01 1:41:33

You're welcome, world.

SPEAKER_03 1:41:37

We have so much to learn.

SPEAKER_01 1:41:40

One of our middle names is John Connor.

SPEAKER_02 1:41:42

Speaking of uh speaking about callbacks, Lou, we have not done a white shit that Lou has done in a while. And I think was it last week or two weeks ago? You said you had done the whitest shit ever.

SPEAKER_01 1:41:55

Bruh, I went with old girl to Estes Park, which is like 40

Knitting Festival Chaos And AI Pickup Lines

SPEAKER_01 1:42:00

minutes away or so, because there was a knitting craft show thing going on.

SPEAKER_02 1:42:06

I've never even been to a knitting craft show before, Lou. Jesus.

SPEAKER_01 1:42:10

Um, so imagine, I don't know, it wasn't very big. So I don't know, maybe 30,000. No, that's probably too big. 20,000 square foot building. And they've got it's like knitting, they've got food trucks out there, they've got a horse buggy thing you can ride around the area. Um, there's llamas and rabbits because it's fur knitting and all that stuff. So you can see the fur that goats, people selling. It's it's just okay. I went last year and it was better last year. Uh just more vendors, more booths, and everything. But I made a point to count two, three weeks ago when I was there, how many non-white people there were there. And there was one brother who was dragged there by his white wife. I was just like first of all, you were Spider-Manning.

SPEAKER_03 1:43:08

You were Spider-Manning.

SPEAKER_01 1:43:09

You were like it was it was like I looked over, I I looked, I saw, I was like, I'm looking around. We walked up and down all the aisles. Do you know how I do it? Go up one, that's keep my order going. And I made sure I counted. And it was the there was a class going on, and the brother looked definitely like he did not want to be there. And his his his wife was just having a good old merry time, just watching the class go along, and he's just like, Man, how did I man, you better be bringing your friend home tonight. You could just tell he had that look. Are you sure you're gonna walk by a mirror? Bruh. No, because you know I don't like the interracial shit, so I don't do that. So, but but yeah, that was some of the I mean last year there were definitely some more color. It wasn't just like, okay, there were some brown people. No, there was all white people, and then me and that one brother who was clearly dragged there. Okay, okay, let's go outside and see maybe the food, maybe maybe they're scattered, right? You know, it's Colorado, it's it's it's white, it is what it is. No, we went through all the damn things and looked at the animals. Well, she did. I was just like trying to stay away from them because they'll kill you. So I was like, I want no part of that. And then the goats went at the bunnies. One of them had red eyes, looked like the bunny from Monty Python. Uh, it was just like, it was like, what the hell? And no, food court, goats, the kid area, all white people. It wasn't even. I was like, there's gotta be a Mexican. Even at the Mexican Mexican food cart, there was white people. There wasn't a Mexican food cart. That's how it was. You the only diversity you had for food, ethnic food, was Greek. They had Euros and uh crepes. That's all you did. How were they? We knew we were gonna go to uh a local pie shop or like homemade pies and everything. We knew we were gonna go there afterwards and way back, so we didn't bother to eat there. We're like, let's just wait till we come over here, and we did. We had lunch and dessert at that little uh shop.

SPEAKER_02 1:45:14

Lou, I know you love facts. So Estes Park Conference Center is 20,000 square feet. Good guess. Holy shit, that was cool.

SPEAKER_01 1:45:22

Um, yeah, so so that was the white shit that Lou did recently, and holy hell, just just knitting and people there, like I'm watching Cinderella or I don't know what what did she say? She said it wasn't sleeping beauty. They're sitting there pedaling away and getting into little all the yarn all wound up and shit. I'm just sitting there watching, it's like, man, no. That that was I'm just just just shaking my head the whole time. And then my eyes got big though when I saw that brother. I was like, oh hell yeah. Then I looked at how like, why did he look so sad? And and it's like, oh, okay. He's with his own. And he was looking at you.

SPEAKER_02 1:46:02

Why are you looking so excited?

SPEAKER_01 1:46:04

Right? White women everywhere. That's why I'm excited. Come on now. Y'all know what I mean.

SPEAKER_02 1:46:09

Lou gonna show up next year with an Afghan on and shit.

SPEAKER_03 1:46:12

Like meh.

SPEAKER_02 1:46:14

People are gonna be like, Where'd you get the I made it myself?

SPEAKER_04 1:46:18

Yup. I did the the double loop with the hook and something. I don't know.

unknown 1:46:24

Right.

SPEAKER_01 1:46:24

I'ma I'ma show up with my latch hook and think I'm impressive and shit.

SPEAKER_04 1:46:29

No, Lou's gonna ask AI, tell me some good lines to use to pick up knitting women with.

SPEAKER_01 1:46:36

That's a good one, actually. I could do that. It's like which knitty women are unicorns. If you don't know what that is, y'all can look it up on your own.

SPEAKER_03 1:46:48

It goes with that upside down pineapple stuff. Alright, get late. Alright, Lou, you ready?

SPEAKER_02 1:46:57

Are you knitting a sweater or are you just weaving your way into my heart? Wow. Hold on, let me take notes.

SPEAKER_01 1:47:09

I'm gonna make fun of it.

SPEAKER_02 1:47:11

I promise I'm lower maintenance than untangling black yarn.

SPEAKER_01 1:47:19

Dang, double entendre there. Or double meaning, not really entendre.

SPEAKER_02 1:47:25

Either way. Oh, here you go. If you ever need someone to hold your yarn while you win to skein, I'm your person. You don't even need to know what that means.

SPEAKER_03 1:47:35

It doesn't matter, because it's just a pickup line. I'm not made of wool, but I hear on boyfriend material. Material wool material. I never ghost you. I know how important finishing a project is.

SPEAKER_02 1:48:10

I think we've got good chemistry. I can feel the tension, and it's not just your yarn.

SPEAKER_01 1:48:25

I'm gonna find all the random white women there and be like on that one brother's wife, so he don't have to deal with her anymore.

SPEAKER_03 1:48:37

Shit. Okay. Okay, we're done.

SPEAKER_04 1:48:40

Yeah, we're done. That's it. Tap it out. Tap it out. Next week won't be as smart or as intelligent. We'll be right back to fucking stupid stuff, I'm sure.

SPEAKER_01 1:48:48

I'll have my supergirl comments. I don't know if we have what do you guys got a Tuesday movie? Oh well, Jack, you know.

SPEAKER_02 1:48:54

Probably not. I'm gonna watch Wana.

SPEAKER_01 1:48:57

Is that the different movies? You want me to go watch minions?

SPEAKER_02 1:48:59

Come on, I can make the sacrifice and go watch minions.

SPEAKER_01 1:49:02

Nobody has oh, you have a you have a wanna next weekend.

SPEAKER_02 1:49:05

Yeah, I haven't wanna next weekend.

SPEAKER_01 1:49:07

I did watch Minions today. You don't have a Tuesday movie.

SPEAKER_02 1:49:12

Probably not.

SPEAKER_01 1:49:12

What came out this weekend? That's it's even worse.

SPEAKER_02 1:49:14

Minions. Oh, like I said, that that's where uh one of the guys in my Hey, it had George Lickis in it. Okay. One of and um the DJ Fisher. Uh one of my Thruple for my movie Thruple wants to maybe go see backrooms. I don't know, because I I don't know.

SPEAKER_04 1:49:35

You'll be fine. It's not it's more psychological thriller kinda what the fuck is going on, as opposed to like gory monster horror fests. So I think you'll be scared. Yeah, yeah, you'll be fine. As well, obsession too. I mean, it's gross people but it's funny.

SPEAKER_02 1:49:57

I mean, also I get the impression that obsession's like way funnier than it's pretty intense, but there is some humor to it.

SPEAKER_04 1:50:04

But it's very intense.

SPEAKER_01 1:50:06

The trailer that I said where that I saw that where it says through the show and you can watch it at home, and and the girls all like, why won't you love me? I'm like, good.

SPEAKER_02 1:50:16

Lou's like, I've been there and done that. Lou's like, I've been there, done that.

SPEAKER_01 1:50:19

I was like, man, this did that whole this is fiction, any blah blah blah is pure coincidental. I'm like, man, I want my royalties. That's what I'm saying.

SPEAKER_02 1:50:30

They trained their AI on my life. The the girl who's like the lead in that, I like watched a video with her. She's wild. Like, she's different.

unknown 1:50:41

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 1:50:41

The girl who stars an obsession.

SPEAKER_01 1:50:43

I was like, I have a feeling I won't be able to get to it in the theater. Will have to be uh something I catch on stream.

SPEAKER_02 1:50:49

I don't think it's a movie you have to see in the theater, though, right?

SPEAKER_04 1:50:52

Like you don't have to. I mean, it's good for like the everybody else like and stuff, like when crazy shit happens, but no, no. But, anyways, serial. Time to go. We'll talk about movies and other bullshit next week. Like, sounds good. Have a good week, guys.