Your Past is Present in Your Relationships: Trauma, Attachment & Healing with Elaine Evans, LPC

How do the wounds from our past shape our present relationships? In this compelling conversation with Elaine Evans, EMDR-certified therapist and owner of Third Place Therapy, we explore the invisible threads connecting childhood experiences to adult relationship patterns.

Elaine masterfully breaks down how trauma lives in our bodies long after the original experiences have passed. She explains trauma as "anything that is too much too soon, too much for too long, or too little for too long" – a definition that honors the unique way each person's nervous system responds to life events. Through vivid examples and compassionate insights, she illuminates how these early wounds create the lens through which we view our partners' actions today.

The discussion takes a fascinating turn as we explore attachment styles and the magnetic attraction between anxious and avoidant types – that classic dynamic portrayed in countless romantic movies. Elaine challenges the stigma around "emotionally unavailable" partners, reframing avoidant attachment as a brilliant survival strategy rather than a character flaw. This perspective shift alone could transform how many listeners understand their relationship challenges.

What truly sets this conversation apart is Elaine's emphasis that healing doesn't mean "fixing" ourselves. "Often the belief that I'm broken and need fixing is the problem," she explains. Her approach invites us to see that while our situations may have been broken, we remained whole at our core – worthy of love and connection.

Whether you're struggling to understand persistent relationship patterns, curious about how your past influences your present, or simply wanting deeper connection with yourself and others, this episode offers practical wisdom and healing perspectives. 

Ready to transform your relationship with yourself and others? This conversation is your starting point!

Connect with Elaine:

Third Place Therapy Website

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Self Paced Course: Heal Your Trauma to Improve Your Relationships

Free e-book: Heal Your Trauma to Improve Your Relationships

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:48

Welcome back to Feel and Find Out. This is Raquel Delucia. I'm your host, and today's guest is Elaine Evans. Elaine is an EMDR certified, licensed professional counselor and owner of the private practice Third Place Therapy in Phoenix, Arizona, right down the street from me. Elaine is a thoughtful and compassionate therapist who helps people reconnect with their inner wisdom, especially when they're feeling stuck, overwhelmed, or in pain. Elaine supports her clients in healing from past trauma, tuning into their emotions, and building meaningful relationships. What sets her apart is her belief that you already hold the insight you need to heal. Her job is to help you access it. In today's conversation, we're talking about how individual trauma can impact our relationships and what healing in this space can really look like. Let's dive in. Hi, Elaine. How are you today? Good. So glad to be here with you. Yeah, I'm really excited to have you here. I found Elaine on Instagram, I believe, and then connected with her and came to realize she works like down the street from where my office is, and we do similar therapy. So really excited to have you. Would you just tell the listeners a little bit about who you are and what you do before we dive in?

SPEAKER_01 2:12

Yeah, totally. I love how on social media you can connect with people who like, I don't know, maybe in old days we would like catch each other walking to the market or something just down the street. But like I feel like a lot of my really favorite special therapist friendships have come from posting in that space. But yeah, I'm Melaine. I'm a therapist in Phoenix originally from the Pacific Northwest and then wanted more sunshine. So came down to Arizona School and um I launched my private practice, third place therapy, about three years ago. And the focus of my work is really with individuals. And a lot of the clients that I work with are experiencing some type of like relationship challenge or dissatisfaction in their work that isn't easily solved by like some quick fix or solution. Um, and so they recognize that there's like something a little bit deeper that that discontent is connected to. And oftentimes we find that childhood wounds are connected to that, and that might show up in having like an insecure attachment and relationship or being really successful at work, but not finding it fulfilling. Um, and so that's the work that I really love to do with folks is helping them look at like what is the current challenge we're experiencing and how can we find the root of that um and transform what's there.

SPEAKER_00 3:34

So yeah. And I I love that, and I know that we have similar models. And so, what is your favorite way, I would say, to kind of go deeper and pull up that route when you're working with people?

SPEAKER_01 3:49

Yeah. So one of the things that I bring to mind in my work with clients all the time is that we reference the past to make sense of the present and then predict the future. So in this present moment, our brain is sort of subconsciously pulling all the material from our past that connects to this moment. So, like I've been on a podcast before, so my brain is remembering those experiences, and those experiences are then informing how I'm showing up with you, and then how I'm sort of predicting what the rest of our time together is gonna be like, right? So, in that sense, that um the model behind that is um connected to EMDR, which stands for eye movement, desensitization, reprocessing, which essentially is a therapy modality that's really effective for PTSD, anxiety. Um, and you use eye movements back and forth or bilateral stimulation with like buzzing um in each hand while thinking about a past distressing experience. And something about that eye movement or bilateral simulation helps people to almost like redigest a past experience that's really upsetting so that when I think about it now, um, it's not as upsetting. And it the way that I have stored that information is more helpful. So EMDR is one of the main approaches that I use. And then another model that I really like is internal family systems, which is just sort of this idea that inside we have these like sub-personalities or parts that want different things or have different perspectives or approaches, right? So, like someone can relate to this if they're in a relationship and they're kind of unhappy and part of them wants to leave. Yes, part of them wants to stay.

SPEAKER_00 5:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 5:38

Oh, and now we have this really big conflict around like I'm so torn. And so the IFS model really you borrows concepts from like family therapy to almost like hold a family session inside of yourself and hear from all the different parts inside, understand what they're about, what they're wanting, to come to like a resolution. Um, so that's a model that I really, really appreciate. And part of what I love about that approach is that it sees um some of our like self-sabotaging behaviors as not bad, right? So, like let's say that I have a habit of um, I don't know, when I'm mad at my partner, I go and um on a shopping spree because I know he cares about the finances. So if he won't listen to me, he'll listen to the receipt, right? Yeah. So that behavior of going on a shopping spree, we could objectively look at that and say, oh my gosh, that's so bad. That's immature. But through the IFS model, we learn to actually relate to that part of us with passion, with curiosity, to get curious about like, hmm, what is that really about for me? You know, probably like the deeper need is I want to feel heard. And this is the only way that this part of me feels like it can be heard, right? Um, so I just think that those two models are really helpful in sort of de-shaming some of our quote unquote bad behavior in relationships, but also getting curious about like where did my brain, my body, my system learn this? And and yeah, reprocessing the memory where that started.

SPEAKER_00 7:17

Yeah. And well done explanation of those two models because I think that was very clear and easy to understand for listeners who may have heard of it but are uncertain of it. And I know I love explaining it to people, especially internal family systems, because they're both really experiential, right? Like until you actually do either of those things, it's it's like, oh wow, now I get now I get what you mean. Um so you know, using those two models to work through trauma experiences or any type of distress or stressful experience from the past. Um, when we look at trauma, and you know, today we're talking about how does our own individual trauma impact our current relationships? How do you define trauma? And how do you make or how do you help clients sort of understand that what they experience can actually be considered trauma? Because that's sometimes hard for individuals to take in.

SPEAKER_01 8:20

So totally, yeah. You know, and and I'm this client myself too. Like a lot of the folks that I work with wouldn't come in saying I have trauma. Or maybe they would say, well, like maybe I have trauma, but it wasn't that bad, right? Um, it doesn't really count. So how I define trauma like clinically is anything that is too much too soon, too much for too long, or too little for too long, right? Um, so too much too soon could be a really intense experience that we kind of typically think of when we think of trauma. And some people would call that a capital T trauma experience. The too much for too long, it might be that like one experience I had of mom and dad getting into a fight didn't feel particularly intense. But maybe it was just that every time they came home from work or something, there was always this conflict ongoing. And so this chronic stress then became a trauma. So it's not just one moment, but many moments over time. And then in the reverse, that last part, the too little, too long is really speaking to neglect and in particular emotional neglect, right? If I felt like there weren't enough experiences of feeling seen or soothed, maybe, you know, mom, dad, whoever misses the mark, you know, I come home from school upset and they don't take notice of it, they don't ask about it. One experience of that might not be significant enough to impact my system. But if that happens a lot over time, that can become a trauma. And so I think the thing um I heard someone the other day say that like trauma is in the eye of the beholder, right? Yeah. And so as a therapist, I'm not gonna judge for someone else if their experience counts as trauma. Really, I'm gonna their nervous system, their body, how does their body react to this memory? And if when I think of that memory or kind of the lack of memories of things that I needed, if my body is having a visceral reaction to it, my body is saying that was traumatic, impactful. Um, and oftentimes the thing that makes an upsetting experience traumatic is the lack of support that we had in that experience. Right. Um, so that kind of explains why someone, you know, could get into a car accident and like they're kind of shaken up naturally, but they're still able to get into the car next day. Um, it they're not having nightmares about it, whereas someone else maybe has a car accident and um their nervous system responds differently, especially if they don't have a lot of support. And then their triggers are going to be different. Yeah. I'm curious to know, like, passing it back to you, how do you typically define trauma, especially for someone who would say, like, I don't think I have trauma?

SPEAKER_00 11:08

Yeah. So I like to say it as, you know, it can be anything that was less than nurturing in your upbringing. And I know that can seem a little vague, but a lot of the times that hits in a certain way. You know, we don't often think back to um, you know, our nurturing relationships as that. But when we know what that feels like, we remember it. And we also then realize, oh, I know what that wasn't, like that wasn't nurturing. And, you know, I think that any disruption in a relationship, so very similar. And I use your definition as well of like things happening consistently, you know, without repair, um, things that were indeed harmful emotionally or physically. I think it's the emotional one that stumps people the most. Um, you know, like, oh, how was witnessing, let's use your example, my parents fight all the time, you know, they just fought all the time. Right? Well, it's like, well, when you how does it impact you now when you're in conflict? What shows up for you? And so they might respond with, well, I'm really uncomfortable in conflict, I don't like it. I I freeze, or I like get really, you know, anxious inside or tense. So that would speak to your how does your body respond now? But they weren't putting that together, right? It wasn't linked back to those early experiences. So I love helping people kind of get to the point of seeing, oh wow, what I what I experienced actually did have an impact, and I can do something different with it now. Like we can we can show up differently in conflict. You don't always have to be triggered, even though you didn't realize it was a trigger to begin with.

SPEAKER_01 13:01

Yeah, yeah, there's this um trauma trainer who uses the language of when someone feels triggered, they say, Oh, you're you're having a feeling memory, right? Your body's having a feeling memory. Um, the emotion that you're feeling in the present is tied to something in the past. And so your body's responding as if that past thing is happening now.

SPEAKER_02 13:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 13:24

And I love that language. I think, you know, with parents, some something valuable is like if they're saying, Oh, you know, I experienced this in my childhood, but it was just normal. That's like how things were, you know. Um, dad didn't ask about feelings, but like that's just how dads were in in my day when I was raised, right?

SPEAKER_02 13:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 13:44

Then to ask, like, okay, you know, and is that like what you hope to create for your kiddo? And then it's this immediate, well, no, like not at all, you know. And so, okay, well, how is it okay that that that was your environment and yet that's not what you want to replicate? Right. Um, I think sometimes the barrier to acknowledging we have trauma is part of how we maybe coped with these experiences as kids was um to some degree denying how big or bad it was. Because better to live in a world um with God than to live in a world ruled by the devil. And so if I'm seeing my parents as the devil, like that's really hard to be a kid in that environment. And so as kids, we want to perceive, oh, mom and dad aren't the problem. Like maybe I'm too emotional about that, maybe it didn't really happen. And so that's where like a lot of times we really struggle to acknowledge the bigness of the experience because in some way it helped us not acknowledge it in childhood. Or we simply had no one saying, Hey, it shouldn't be this way.

SPEAKER_00 14:51

Yes. Yeah. And to take that to the place of, oh, maybe this means there's something wrong with me.

unknown 14:58

Right.

SPEAKER_00 14:59

That they're, you know, they did that or said that I must be unlovable, not good enough. And that sort of gets laid into the foundation then of the child, carried into now a present-day adult negative belief that they may not even necessarily realize is drives a lot of their interactions with other people or their experiences of their emotions. Right. And so I think another piece that's interesting is sometimes clients can't access the body, right? Sometimes their response is this numbness, and that in and of itself is a part, right? And a part I've learned. I used to be kind of scared of that part, to be honest. When a client would say, like, I feel nothing, I feel numb, I'd be like, Oh, okay. And then I learned, like, okay, let's lean into that, you know, like let's get to know that part. So, you know, I just think it's super really fascinating how we all develop our own responses to our environments and the things that you know we experience. Um speaking of how this shows up relationally, yeah. You know, if a client comes to you and is like, hey, I'm really struggling in my relationship with my partner, they, X, Y, Z, right. Um, how do you sort of help them make that U-turn, right? By honoring, yeah, I hear what you're saying about you know your partner's behavior and how that impacts you. How do you U-turn it back to them for them to see how this could be related somehow to something they went through before? You know, that there was a trauma experience they didn't realize was there, and that's being triggered now by their current partner.

SPEAKER_01 16:51

Yeah, totally. You know, um, my magic question, if you will, that's like running through my mind when I'm working with clients specifically in this area of relationships, is asking, you know, when your partner does this, what does it mean about you? Yes, that's my favorite question. Yeah. Because really I'm looking for part of you is perceiving what's happening and then making meaning about you that's touching on some vulnerable pain that hasn't been healed, right? So bringing this to life, let's say I have a partner who like um maybe I'm quite type A and they're more type B, and so they're fly by the seat of the pants, and you know, not doesn't like really plan and might kind of forget things as a type A person. Um I might experience their lack of planning date night, let's say. And um I might take that to mean their lack of planning means they don't care about me. Okay, and what is it if it's true that they don't care about me? What does that say about me as a person? Well, I'm unlovable, I'm not enough. Ooh, now that's really reaching into something quite tender. Um, and then getting curious about like, can we locate in your body where you feel that sense of I'm unlovable? Um, and why I'm asking them to connect with their bodies because our experiences, um, and people have said our issues live in our tissues, right? So even before we have like conscious memory of things, our bodies absorbing our experiences. So if we can connect with where we feel that in our bodies and then just kind of ask ourselves, like, where do I remember first feeling this way in my body? Um, that can help take us back to where this feeling may have started. Um, and that doesn't mean that my current situation with my partner doesn't matter, like I shouldn't be, you know, bothered by their lack of planning. That's still valid. Right. But I'm bringing like an extra intensity of energy into it when I'm making their behavior mean something about my worth.

SPEAKER_00 19:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 19:55

And that that's really vulnerable, right? And so I might react to that by then lecturing them about how irresponsible they are. And couples therapist told you you needed to plan date night and you're not doing, you know, like I could just really maybe have a strategy there, right? To protect from my vulnerability by blaming them. And so we can see how it kind of gets complex here, how we're showing up in relationship. But really, the goal is to help a client see that the upset about their partner is valid and the meaning we're taking on might not have started with their partner.

SPEAKER_00 20:31

Yeah. 100%.

unknown 20:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 20:34

And so it's really about the questions that you're asking in those moments to help someone, you know, either evoke an emotion or have a realization, like a light bulb moment, like, oh yeah, that is how you know my dad used to, you know, not follow through on plans and I felt he didn't care about me. And and then when you have that hot in the room and alive, are you then moving toward, you know, if it makes sense for the client in that moment to go toward EMDR and reprocess that?

SPEAKER_01 21:13

Yeah. So EMDR would be um one way to process that. Again, the bilateral simulation helps the nervous system to have a greater capacity to sit with uncomfortable emotions and not get overwhelmed. And so it's a really um supportive way to do that reprocessing. Um, or I'll also maybe interweave IFS. There's sort of this idea of reparenting that younger me that first learned I'm unlovable, and that's why people don't show up for me, right? And if that were my kiddo, would I want to reinforce that message, or would I actually want to kind of correct that?

SPEAKER_02 21:53

Right.

SPEAKER_01 21:53

Um, and so we might do EMDR, we might kind of do an imaginative experience of if you could step into the room with little you the moment that you know mom didn't show up for your sports game, and that meant to you I'm unlovable, right? Could you be the parent? What would you want to say or do for her? Um and essentially we are doing the repair we didn't get back then. And in doing that, then I can kind of release this belief that I took on. Um and oftentimes then that will help me to see my dynamic present day differently. Like I'm still gonna be upset my partner didn't plan date night, but maybe I can approach that from a different angle with a little bit more curiosity and openness versus all the intensity that comes with carrying a big wound into that.

SPEAKER_00 22:44

Yes. Yeah, I think there's such power, and this is something I've had to learn to do myself, is you know, when I notice something come up, a reaction to something a partner does or says, I have to really take a minute and ask myself, okay, what am I making this mean? Because, and that's why I love that question. Um we are, you know, meaning-making creatures, right? Our brains just they can do that and they do it well, and we tell great stories about things, but that can become extreme. And it may feel like it's there's a protective factor to it, but it also gets in the way, right? Because it may not mean that at all about the partner, what it is that you're thinking it means. And so um I think that getting people to sort of stop and question helps them learn to self soothe and. How old was I? How old am I? Or how old do I feel when this shows up? Um, that's another question I really like asking. Um, they're usually surprised when it's like, oh, 12, what? It's like this really cool moment. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 24:00

Yeah, totally. And I love that question too, because it helps kind of bring us back into understanding, well, you know, if we take a step back, oftentimes folks are ending up in therapy because something big has happened where they're like, okay, this needs to change. And maybe it is I just, you know, blew up at my partner. And although I was justified in my feelings, like I also know I'm contributing to this pattern. Yeah. And so we can zoom out and see, like, oh, that behavior is really intense. But in the moment, I feel like I don't have a choice. And I love your question. How do you feel in that moment? Well, I feel 12. What was happening when you were 12? Oh, well, probably you were trying to handle a situation that felt overwhelming to you. So, of course, your response is going to be really big and intense. It had to be. Yeah. And can we help that little part of you recognize that you have a different capacity to handle things now? Right? We have different options and choices. And um, so yeah, that's another really great question. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 25:03

I want to ask you also if you find that you have a client who's sort of stuck in the same pattern, you know, say in a relationship, and they're gaining the understanding of where it comes from and you're working with them, and they're finding that, you know, they're unable to sort of break free from that pattern. What is your what is your approach? You know, how do you work with that in the room, especially when it's just this? Like maybe it's based on an insecure attachment site. How do you prefer to navigate that with clients who just keep doing the same thing in their relationships?

SPEAKER_01 25:46

You know, sometimes it's worth asking, like, what would be risky or bad about this changing? Like if you got quote unquote better and didn't do whatever the quote unquote bad thing is that you're doing, if you stopped blaming your partner every time a fight happened, um, what would be potentially dangerous about that or risky?

SPEAKER_00 26:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 26:10

Um, because oftentimes there's a fear that if this thing changes, then things in some way could even get worse for me. So for example, you know, if I were to stop blaming my partner, then I would just be a doormat. They'd walk all over me, like I wouldn't be able to um point out the things that they need to change. And so there can be this really, it can feel like the pendulum is going to swing way in this other direction. Yeah. Um, and so sometimes we have to actually look at like what is the cost of healing? Sometimes when we heal, it costs us our relationship. Relationship can't hold the change, you know, that we've experienced. Um because someone else might benefit from the thing that we're doing, right? And so sometimes we can get stuck in a pattern because changing it, there's some cost, something that we maybe don't feel ready for or aren't bought into. Or we have a perception that okay, if I stop doing this thing, then the pendulum's gonna swing to the other end and that's gonna be no good for me. Um, yeah. So I would work with that by kind of like uncovering what is that thing, and then we work with that practically.

SPEAKER_00 27:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 27:24

Um, curious to pass that back to you. Do you have a particular way of navigating that in the room?

SPEAKER_00 27:31

So I I enjoy this psychoeducce on attachment. Like I'm someone who really likes to help clients understand a little bit about what's happening and what is sometimes I'll want to know and I'll ask it in a different way, like the function of this. What is what is this? How is this serving you to be engaging in this same thing? Right. Because you might come in and say you don't want to, right? A part of you doesn't. What's the part of you that does? And how does it benefit? Um, and I'll usually go into getting to know those parts, right? Because it's there's a reason that we keep doing the same thing, even though we might logically know better. Because it's not that part of us that knows it that's running the show at that point.

SPEAKER_01 28:20

Right. Yep, totally.

unknown 28:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 28:22

And I love that you brought up attachment styles because I think even in my own journey, once I learned about attachment styles and could kind of identify, oh, like I lean more towards this anxious style. I'm not a fan of just like labeling or pathologizing things, but for me, it was really helpful to like recognize, oh, there's a name for what's going on here. And here are like the common patterns or dynamics, or here are the wounds that they're connected to. And so I think that that's a really valuable thing for clients to recognize what are their leanings or tendencies in terms of strategies for attachment. Really, it is all just strategies.

SPEAKER_00 29:06

Yeah. Yeah. So it's like, what is your strategy for maintaining closeness in your relationships, right? And just kind of putting it in that way, it feels relatable, right? Because you think, oh, well, I want to be with them, go toward them, touch them, hold them, talk to them. And for another, it's like, well, I need like to not be close to them, like, or that feels a little bit unsafe. So I need my own time, and that's how I feel closest to someone. Right. And so just I love helping, especially couples, understand those different dynamics and strategies. Cause oftentimes couples that are in my room have very different strategies. Yeah. And those, you know, they get stuck. And you work with individuals, it's not the couple in the room, but the individual coming in. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 29:54

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 29:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 29:56

Yeah, totally. I think it's it's so interesting. You know, there's the anxious attachment, avoidant attachment, and then I don't like the name for it, but a disorganized attachment, which is both kind of combined. And I really feel like rather than everyone is just in one of these camps, of course, there's the secure style as well. I think we all maybe land somewhere on these spectrums to varying degrees. What's interesting is that like the anxious attachment style, they feel really close with intimacy and not super comfortable with distance.

SPEAKER_00 30:30

Right.

SPEAKER_01 30:31

Whereas the avoidant type is the exact opposite. They feel really comfortable with distance and uncomfortable with intimacy. And the two are magnetically attracted to each other. Right. And so when they meet up, sparks are flying. It feels like the chemistry is real hot and it's really exciting. And a lot of like the rom-coms out there and dramas that we love to watch, yeah, if you look, are often an anxiously attached person drawn to an avoidantly attached person, right? And avoidantly attached folks are commonly called like emotionally unavailable, uh, that sort of type. And so, yeah, the tricky thing is what we're doing there is we're finding someone who's replicating a felt experience that we had in childhood often. And we're subconsciously reenacting that dynamic for redemption, right? Um, and so sometimes we're like using our present relationship to try and fix or redeem the hurts that started long ago. Um, and I think understanding that whole dynamic can really, really illuminate things.

SPEAKER_00 31:39

Yeah. There was a training I took on EMDR and attachment. Um, and one thing she, the trainer had said was, you know, those with the more avoidant attached style, and that they get a bad rap, right? Like you said, they're the emotionally unavailable, they're the ones who pull it, they're the hardest people to be with, all that all those things that you hear. Um, you know, she said that they learned that in order to be close to their caregiver, they had to like suppress their own needs. They couldn't have emotional needs because that would create distress in their caregiver. So they learned to like shove those things down and push their emotions down, and that's how they felt closest. And so after I heard that, it just kind of framed it in a different way.

SPEAKER_02 32:26

Right?

SPEAKER_00 32:26

It's not a choice to be emotionally unavailable, it's literally a survival strategy to be with someone else to be cared for. So I like helping people just understand that a little bit. Like this, these are all just ways that you've learned to survive or or live in your life and your relationships, especially if there was an injury at some point. Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 32:50

Yeah, I think it's so helpful when we can kind of um de-shame and normalize and even appreciate what the strategy is doing. Yeah. I've heard it described as like, oh, in ancient days, you know, if you it's not really survival of the fittest, right? It's actually survival of the most like collaborative or cooperative. Because as mammals, like we need other people to survive. Like me against a bear solo, I have no chance. But like me and 50 others against a bear, like we'd we'd probably be all right. I won't be at the front lines, but we'll figure it out, you know? Um, and so whoever can maintain connection is who survives. And so an environment like that, some people might attach by paying really hyper-vigilant awareness to like, where are my people? How close are we? How good are we? And kind of almost overcompensating in a hyper-vigilant state. Whereas those who are avoidantly attached um might experience, you know, if I get too close to someone and then they leave or they die, that's more painful. And so I'm gonna manage how close I get. Yeah, um, because that way I can be in a relationship without it being too painful, right? And both of those sides make sense, they're just different strategies for survival. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 34:11

To combat the fear of disconnection, abandonment, etc. We it just looks different. Yeah. So with this, you know, you have you created something to help people on their own, like outside of therapy, work through or kind of navigate how trauma impacts relationships. You want to speak on that a little bit?

SPEAKER_01 34:38

Totally. So I created an eight-module course that kind of walks those folks through like understanding first of all what is trauma, and then kind of creating their own um timeline of taking a look back through childhood and life experiences, like what are the significant things that shaped how I see myself, but also how I respond, particularly in relationships? Um, it also has information on kind of finding which strategy of attachment do you commonly land in? What are the core fears around that and the core needs? So, how do you like ask for what you need in relationship with that? Um, and then taking all of that self-insight and self-awareness. Now, how do we navigate what's difficult in relationship? As far as like communicating effectively, how do we do repair? Um, and you mentioned that a bit ago. Like, in no relationship are we gonna be perfect, right? I got I'm a new mom and my kiddo turns a year in just a couple weeks, and everything in me wants to be perfect for him. Yeah, but uh I'm only a year and a knife already messed up, you know? And I have to remind myself, it's not that I need to be perfect, it's that I need to be committed to repair, right? In a couple relationships, it's not about showing up perfect and pleasant all the time for your partner, but really learning how to do repair well, which is owning our part. And that's why it's important to, you know, know the trauma history and attachment styles. Um, and then there's a section in there too, kind of based on your attachment style, how do you engage in intimacy, be it emotional or physical intimacy? Because our attachment style is also going to impact um our sexual intimacy and how we engage in that and what feels fulfilling or not. Um, and then the last section is really on like how do we sustain this growth in a relationship? So it's a self-paced eight module um course that someone could kind of take over time, really to do the deep work of awareness and then bring that into relationship.

unknown 36:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 36:43

I love that. I think that's you know, that has a lot of meat to it. You know, like and I have, you know, people ask or just in conversation, or when I have a new client, they might say, you know, I have I've learned all the whys I of why I do things, like I get it, right? I've I've I have a lot of insight now. I think I've done a lot of work. I don't know what to do with it though.

SPEAKER_02 37:07

Right.

SPEAKER_00 37:07

And I I kind of light up with that because I'm like, okay, yeah, well, we're gonna, you know, we're gonna take you to that place. And it sounds like this might be a way for people to sort of do both, like learn about it, get a deeper understanding, and also figure out what to do with that information in a self-paced way, like created by a licensed therapist. So I think that's really cool. Yeah. So is that available? You know, do you like launch that certain times? Is that just kind of available on your website?

SPEAKER_01 37:40

Yep, it's available ongoing. Um, folks could find it by going to my Instagram, which is third place therapy. And then at the link in bio, they can find the course um and get it there. I think right now um it's going for 150 um for the whole course. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 37:57

Oh wow, that's a great deal.

SPEAKER_01 37:59

Everybody like go grab that. Like I know, for less than a therapy session.

SPEAKER_00 38:02

It's less than one therapy session.

SPEAKER_01 38:04

That's amazing. Yeah. Yeah. I just think that everybody should be equipped with like this information and these skills. And um I had a lot of fun creating it.

SPEAKER_00 38:15

Yeah. No, it's that's great.

unknown 38:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 38:17

What is um just before we wrap up, what is one thing that you might suggest to someone listening who this resonated, and they're like, hmm, you know, maybe there are some things or maybe there are barriers that I I don't even know about that are contributing to how I feel in a relationship, but I'm nervous or you know, I I don't know that I'm ready to go there. Like, what would you say to them? Um, you know, words of encouragement, perhaps. Yeah. How to get started with that.

SPEAKER_01 38:50

You know, I think our biggest wounds happen in relationship.

SPEAKER_00 38:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 38:56

Also our biggest healing happens in relationship. And so it's so normal to feel defeated, overwhelmed, embarrassed, even ashamed. Relationships aren't going well. Um, we're kind of programmed from a young age to take responsibility for that, even if it's not truly our responsibility to take on. Um, and so those feelings that that being stuck and having the barriers is so normal. And the best way through that is through connection, right? And that might mean connecting with a therapist, right? And letting someone else hold space for that vulnerability, moving at a pace that feels comfortable. That might mean beginning to talk about with close trusted friends or a partner you can trust about some of these things. But I think the biggest encouragement would be you're not alone. It makes sense to feel that, and you deserve support. Yeah, no one's no one's meant to heal alone. I really believe that.

SPEAKER_00 39:57

Yeah. Yeah. And if someone says to you, okay, just like fix my trauma and I'll be okay. Um you know, or how do I fix this? How do I, how does this get better? What would you say?

SPEAKER_01 40:13

Yeah. You know, I think often the thing that is keeping us stuck is the belief that we need to be fixed or there's something broken with us. Yeah. And often that very belief that I'm broken and I need fixing is is the problem.

unknown 40:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 40:30

And I know that sounds backwards, but when we can like go back and understand our story, we can kind of see ourselves very differently and see that my situation was broken. My situation needed to be fixed.

SPEAKER_00 40:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 40:44

Um, but at my core, like I'm whole and I'm enough and deserving of love. And when we can reach that, oh, that transforms so much inside. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 40:55

I think that was a mic drop moment. That's the moment to end that. Yeah, Elaine, this was wonderful. Um, you know, thank you so much for sharing your wisdom with us. And I'll put all your info in the show notes for someone who just wants to connect further, check out your course, maybe someone local who really, you know, wants to work with you. Is there anything else that you'd like to share today before we say goodbye?

SPEAKER_01 41:21

No, I just really appreciate you holding the space for this conversation and getting to work with kindred spirits and fellow healer in the room is just so lovely. So appreciate the conversation. Yes. Thank you so much. Take care.