Leading Through the Fog: Decision-Making When the Path Isn't Clear

Welcome to Growing Up: The Age of Your Emotions, the podcast where we explore what it really means to mature as a leader — not by title, not by tenure, but by emotional growth, self-awareness, and the courage to evolve.

In this episode, we’re stepping into a space every leader knows well: the fog. Those seasons when the path ahead is blurry, the answers aren’t obvious, and the weight of responsibility feels heavier because clarity is missing. This is where emotional age shows itself, not in how much you know, but in how you navigate what you don’t know.

We explore how leaders make decisions when visibility is low, how to stay grounded when uncertainty rises, and how to guide others with honesty and steadiness even when you’re still finding your own footing. Because fog doesn’t mean you’re lost, it means you’re being invited to grow.

Guest: Christina Cage, Director, Consumer Lending Products and Experience

Christina Cage is a product and experience leader focused on rethinking how financial institutions design for real human behavior, not just digital interaction.

She leads consumer lending strategy, shaping end-to-end journeys that connect digital, branch, and operational experiences. Her work sits at the intersection of product, data, and customer insight, turning complex financial systems into experiences that feel clear, intuitive, and trustworthy.

With over 15 years in financial services and fintech, Christina has led initiatives across payments, credit, and digital platforms. Her approach is grounded in a simple belief: behind every financial decision is a real person, and the role of product is to build confidence in that moment.

She is known for leading through uncertainty, helping teams move forward with clarity even when the path is not fully defined.

Beyond her work, Christina is committed to community and expanding access to fintech, especially for young people. She is passionate about helping the next generation see themselves as builders and leaders shaping the future of the industry.

Dr. Melanie Empowers is not a licensed mental health provider, therapist, or counselor. The content shared through this podcast is for educational, personal growth, and leadership development purposes only and is not intended to diagnose, treat, or replace professional mental health care.

Dr. Melanie holds a Doctor of Management in Organizational Leadership and is a highly experienced leadership professional with over 30 years in Corporate IT, specializing in leadership and organizational development. She also holds multiple professional certifications, including being a Professional Certified Coach (PCC) through an ICF‑credentialed institution.

The insights shared here are grounded in leadership experience, coaching practice, and organizational expertise. If you are in need of mental health support, please seek guidance from a licensed mental health professional in your area.

https://drmelanieempowers.com

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:15

Welcome to Growing Up the Age of Your Emotions Podcast. I'm Dr. Melanie Empowers. And today we're stepping into a space every leader knows well. The fog. Those seasons when the path ahead is blurry, the answers aren't obvious, and the weight of responsibility feels heavier because clarity is missing. This is where emotional age shows itself. Not in how much you know, but in how you navigate what you don't know. We hope you enjoy this episode of Growing Up, the Age of Your Emotions. Today our guest is someone who has a wealth of leadership experience and understands what leading through the fog is like. Welcome, Christina Cage, Director of Consumer Lending Products and Experience in the Financial Technical Industry. Welcome, Christina. Thank you for joining us today.

SPEAKER_01 1:13

Well, thank you, Dr. Melody, for having me on the podcast. I'll say that first I'm I'm excited about what you're doing. I love the topics that you've already established here. So yeah, I'm excited to be here. Looking forward to a great conversation.

SPEAKER_00 1:27

Well, good. Well, we'll start out with asking questions and uh having a conversation. How do you communicate with your team when you don't have clear answers?

SPEAKER_01 1:40

Okay. So I think that first of all, I, you know, I think you did a really great job of, you know, giving me an introduction. I think it's important as we um talk through how I approach leadership and thinking about fog, just mention a little bit about my experience and what I do. Um, so I currently lead um consumer lending products and experiences in a financial institution. So my career has spanned from sales to e-commerce, user experience, fintech, and loyalty and payments and now product management. Um, but if there's one thread that connects all of it, I've always been fascinated about human behavior. So when I look back on my career, I think, you know, it makes perfect sense living through it. And at the time, um at the time it looked like sales and then e-commerce, then UX and then fintech, and now product. Um looking back on it, um, every role was really about asking the same question, you know, why do people make the decisions that they make? Um, and that's so important when you think about, you know, the roles that you've done and translating over to leadership, um, understanding people matters, um, being able to um listen to the signals, if you will, can really detect, you know, how you deal and work with people in the leadership perspective. And so, you know, when I started in sales, that was really important to just, you know, understanding what products people want, how do you connect the dots for them so they can know that this is the thing I need to buy. Um, you also need buy-in when it comes to leadership. You need to be able to lead people in a way that makes them feel good, but also to be able to give them critical feedback in moments that matter once you've, you know, established that trust. Um, so I would say starting in sales, and then, you know, that curiosity led me over into e-commerce and then digital experiences, where I became more fascinated with customer behavior, if you will. Um, you know, why do people click on something? Why do they navigate through a website and then leave it in a cart? Um what helps them convert faster? What, you know, brings friction throughout the experience? You know, and as digital channels became more sophisticated, I became more obsessed with understanding uh behavior at scale, you know, starting with heat mapping tools, click paths, conversion rates. I see something's going off, um, conversion rates, um, spending the patterns, uh, loyalty engagement. Um, and not because I love dashboards, if you will, but because I love people and what it reveals in people. Um, and so I would say, you know, combining all the things that I've done, which is really focused on, you know, who are people? What are they like doing? Uh, why are certain things important to them, has translated over into um my leadership style, if you will. Um so I know that kind of went off on a tangent, but when I think about um, oh, draw me back to your your question that you had on on Fall, I think it was.

SPEAKER_00 4:34

Well, I was asking, what you how do you communicate with your team when you're not even clear?

unknown 4:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 4:40

And you don't even really know, like you can't see the full path. How do you guide your team through that?

SPEAKER_01 4:46

Yeah, I say, you know, when I think about guiding people through a path, and I know the topic is leading through through fog. For me, um, when I think about leading through fog, I don't actually think about uncertainty, if you will. I think I talked about a little bit earlier. I think about signals. Um, you know, earlier in my career, I thought leadership was about having all the answers. Um, I thought the best leaders were the ones that walked into a room, knew immediately what to do. Um, but the longer I've worked in product and the longer I've been a leader, the more I realize that's rarely how leadership works. Um, it's about, again, recognizing the signals. You know, customers leave signals, employees leave signals, you know, markets leave signals, data leave signals. And so for me, it's important to just let everybody know, you know, these are the signals that I'm seeing. I know that you want to do this project, you think this thing matters, but it's really saying the customer doesn't want this. Um, and so oftentimes when you're leading people, um, when I don't know all the answers, it is let's not start always with ourselves and think, you know, this is what we think the problem it is. It is let's look at the research. Let's look at what people are saying that they want and let's make the work meaningful for the customers rather than meaningful for ourselves. And so that's what I like to do is, you know, um get together with the team. You know, I'm uncertain. I think this is the problem we need to solve. I think this is the way that we need to do it, but the data is telling us this thing. So let's design for people and not for ourselves. And so I like to collaborate a lot with my team, um, to always say, let's solve this thing together. That's super important. And it helps build trust too, to say out loud to employees, I don't know the answer, but let's figure it out together. And that has worked well for me.

SPEAKER_00 6:30

Right. So you mentioned a few things that I believe are key to being a successful positive leader. And one was trust. Um, and the other that I heard was collaborate, and then also you uh engage the team, you bring them in, help them. You you don't make the decisions for them, you work with them to make the decision for the team as a whole, which is something that a lot of leaders don't do. Some of them do. I'm not saying all leaders don't do that, but there's some who feel like I'm I'm responsible, so I have to tell them what to do versus I'm part of this team too. We're gonna work this out together, and we're not really sure. We're gonna figure it out, we're gonna do the research, look at the data, look at whatever facets are applicable to whatever the job is or whatever the activity or task at hand is, and you you figure it out together and you have to trust each other, they have to trust you because if you don't know, and you're not you're not if they can't trust you, then how are they gonna trust that they know what they're doing? And then, you know, they people feel you know take things personal, they feel responsible for the job that they're doing. You being their leader, they're not gonna think that, oh, well, because she didn't know, then it's not on me. No, they're gonna think, oh, it's on me because I should have known. So working with them like the same, right?

SPEAKER_01 8:05

That's huge. And you know, it took me a while to learn that. I think, you know, when I first I'll say became a manager, right? Because there's a difference between being a manager and a leader. When I first became a manager, I've I really focused on, and not to say that's the wrong way to do it, but I really focused on, you know, I need to figure out how this person works. I need to figure out what they need, how I can help develop them, how I can help them grow. And then it took me a while to figure out, no, I need to focus first on me. You know, let's focus on it. It sounds a little, you know, opposite of what you should be doing, but it is, I need to become more self-aware to first figure out what are my defaults?

unknown 8:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 8:44

When do I show up as my best self? And that translates to being a good leader. So for me, I know that um I like to do a lot of deep thinking and thoughtful work early in the morning. So I try to protect those first two hours of the day. If I can do that successfully, I can be a better leader throughout the day. When I first became a manager, I would allow people to set up meetings with me whenever they wanted to, and I'll be overwhelmed in the morning, which is my deep thought work. It's when I might be doing um designing wire flows or when I need to write um a strategy document. Those things, in order for them to be the best, need to be done in the morning. And I also tend to block off Fridays is my deep thoughtful work. So I figured out how to get into my rhythm. And then I would share that out with people. And so the past two roles I started, I sent out when I started day one to my direct reports, I sent out a Christina's operating system. And it literally was these are the top 10 things you should know about me. You know, this is how I work my best. These are the things that matter to me. You know, I'm a mom first, so I try to protect the pickup time with my school, with my kids' school. So if you try to schedule a meeting with me in between these times, you're gonna get an auto decline because I like to protect the moment when I'm riding with him and hear what's going on with his day. And so I've figured out that that was really important first is self-awareness, you know, understanding who you are, how you like to work, when are you your best self, and then to share that out with your direct reports because that lets them know, you know, this is who I'm interacting with. Um and when you do that uh at the beginning of uh, I'll say day one in leadership, it helps set a good framework for um, you know, how you'll work best together, to say that I can collaborate with her because she's first shared with me who she is, how she likes to work. Um, and then I also ask for them to share that back with me too. So we figure out, you know, okay, let's solve these problems together. I'm all about togetherness, but I it took me a while to figure that out, to figure that out leadership. Um, and so I think I'm at a got a pretty good rhythm now. So again, when it comes to problem solving, I like to say, because we're not trying to solve the problem for ourselves, we're trying to solve it for customers. So it is this is the problem we're trying to solve. I have this way of thinking, you have this way of thinking. Let's bridge it together so that we can problem solve at scale. Um, yeah, I agree with all the things that you're saying.

SPEAKER_00 11:07

Uh yeah, and that's that's that's true because we were um in another um episode, we were talking about leading and getting to know your team. But first you have to know yourself. Like you have to know you in order for you to be able to bring that to them. Like, hey, this is who I am. And then that also makes them feel safe. That's their psychological safety, the trust that people need so that they can bring that their best best selves into the situation. So, you know, having those 10 things that you share with them about you, that probably made them feel a little vulnerable and said, Well, you know, I can share things with with her. She told me, and wow, she picks her kid up. So if I need to go pick my kid up, then I could go pick my kid up from school and you know, get back online or you know, whatever the situation is.

SPEAKER_01 12:04

Right, that psychological safety, that's huge because we're human first. We're human first. And so someone feels like they can uh that they're safe, that they can share who they are, um, and it helps at least you'd be able to shine the light into why they think the way they think, how they're operating in that day. If I know that someone's gonna be thinking, oh, I gotta go pick up my kid from school super fast, and I might not want to schedule a meeting with them 30 minutes before, right? Because they're not gonna be super focused on the problem we're trying to solve. And so all those things matter um in leadership, but just you know, allowing people to share who they are, no judgment behind it, you know, say listen and don't judge. They're sharing something vulnerable, which is this is who I am. Um, these are the things that matter to me. This is why I work this way. Um, once you know that up front, I think it just it just makes things easier um to start off with.

SPEAKER_00 12:57

Um yeah, and then then they can also trust like you, you you get more respect, and people want to give more when they know that you you support their work life balance. You shared your work life balance. I have to go pick my son up from school, or you know, I have things that I need to do. Don't block, don't schedule anything during this block of time. Yeah, they they feel the same way. I you know, I gotta pick my kid up and I can get back online. A lot of people do that, but it's important to allow people to have that that work life balance so that they can be the best employee or team member that they can be as part of your leadership.

SPEAKER_01 13:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 13:44

So my my next question for you is when you think about leading through the fog, what images or emotions come to mind for you as a leader?

SPEAKER_01 13:56

The images are emotions. I think, you know, it's a it's a theme of what we talked about before, which was um, you know, looking at signals and a lot of emotions. Uh you know, there is there is this idea of fog being, I'll say, uncertainty. Um and so I think, you know, from a leadership perspective, we try to spend a lot of time eliminating uncertainty. Um, but I don't think uncertainty is is really the problem to solve, if you will. Um, I think it's a condition that you have to navigate in as an example. So, you know, every meaningful thing I've done professionally with uncertainty, whether it's been a promotion, a career move, um, a major initiative, the reality has been that um certainty is often luxury uh that's only available hindsight. You know, like if I knew this, I would have done that, you know. But when people look at successful companies or successful products or successful leaders, they assume that the path was obvious. And I'll say, you know, it wasn't. Uh the path became obvious after the outcome. Um, and so for me, I think going through it, um, you're like, oh, I don't know if I should make this decision or um, you know, analysis by paralysis. I mean, I need more information, need more information before I make a decision. Um, but you know, and those emotions, I would say, are good because emotions are signals, you know, they tell you, um, and over time, once you start solving a lot of problems, you get faster that intuition kicks in. You're like, oh, I've seen this before. It's a different problem, but same, you know, kind of situation. So I'll say going through it, um, you know, emotions, there's a little bit of anxiety of, you know, I don't know if I should make the right decision, especially when there are people and money on the line. Um, but I think, you know, over time for me, it's, you know, the road's not clear. I can't see, but let's look for the next stop, is what I've said. You know, it's kind of like driving. You know, if you're you're driving in the rain, it's a ton of rain pouring down. I'm not trying to see the very end of the street. I'm like, I'm just looking a couple of meters ahead and then waiting for if something jumps out, then I might need to stop. But for me, it's been, you know, just let's look at the next mile. Yeah. And then make a decision there. And so slow, I'll I always say slow down to speed up. Um, and I think that's really uh the same approach I think about fog. It is um, I know I can't see to the end, so let me not try or get frustrated. Let's just focus on seeing what's ahead. Um, hopefully that answered your question.

SPEAKER_00 16:36

But yeah, because you have an idea. You you have an idea of what it might look like, but you still, like you said, you can't I can't see at the end of the row because there's fog there. So I'm just looking at what's in front of me and I'm gonna keep moving.

SPEAKER_01 16:51

Yeah, and then you know that's the key. You gotta keep moving. Right. You know, sometimes people see fog and won't do anything. I'm like, you know, don't just stay sit because or wait till the weather is perfect. You know, that's another thing. I'm like, no, I gotta drive. I'm in this car now, I gotta drive. I can't just in the driveway. Um, but there might be more caution. Because there is fall, it doesn't mean I need to speed up. It means, you know, go slow, look for the next signal, then make a decision, and then keep driving. Um, and I think, you know, sometimes people uh because there is fall, they won't make a decision, and that's just not helpful, you know, for right, right.

SPEAKER_00 17:29

So the next two questions, that's the good segue into uh the next two questions. You mentioned data before, and and you said that you would collaborate with your team to list, you know, let's look at the data um when there may be uh something you that you have to solve for as a team. So how do you balance intuition with data when neither feels fully reliable?

SPEAKER_01 17:56

Oh, let's see, you know, I think this is uh probably one of my favorite topics. Um and I'll say because people frame it as an either-or decision, yeah, and it's not. Example, like I love data, I've built much of my career around data-informed decision making, but I've also learned that, you know, data is again like the rear view mirror, if you would. It's something that already happened. You know, it it tells us what happened, it doesn't always tell us why. Um, and it really tells us what's possible. You know, I would say earlier in my career, I became again fascinated with heat mapping tools and behavior analytics. And I remember um a team spending weeks debating like a particular feature. You know, everyone had opinions, um, everyone had theories. Then we looked at the heat maps, and customers actually were not interacting with the thing that they said we should build. Um, they were confused by it. Uh they weren't using it, they weren't even seeing it. You know, we spent weeks debating something customers didn't even care about. Um, and you know, I would say the way that you balance that is when you think about um, you know, this is something that I think people want. But then if you can drill down a data say, nope, there's a heat mapping tool that says people aren't actually hovering over this thing. So we we spent weeks on this opinions of what we thought matter, and like, nope, nobody's buying that thing. And you know, actually nobody's even looking at that page. So we've spent a ton of weeks um thinking about, you know, this is what we think people want. Um, and so I'm like, no, let's actually go see what people want. And I think that's the balance of saying, um data could be telling you something, or intuition is saying we should do something else. But it's it's the balance between the two. It's not always an either or it's taking a look at, you know, my intuition might say, I think this is a problem I need to go solve. But then the data might say, nope, don't even spend your time there. And then it could be another thing. The data might be bubbling up something that's really big, or your intuition was just saying, no, people don't care about that. Um, so I would say it's just it's never either or sometimes it's just mixing the two of, you know, looking at data, looking at intuition. Um, but intuition is a signal too. Intuition could say, I think I need to be solving for this. Let's go see if the data can also support that as well. So they work well together.

SPEAKER_00 20:24

Yeah, so they they um complement each other. So the next question is uh what does a good decision look like when the outcome is unknowable?

SPEAKER_01 20:37

When what does a good decision look like when the outcome is knowable?

SPEAKER_00 20:40

Oh, give me more there. Let me think about that. So when so when you when you think about um the going through the fog and you're you're taking you're taking it, you know, one step at a time, but you know that there's an end there, but you're not really sure because there may have been new developments, there may be new data that may have come in, just a lot of um different variables that bring more uncertainty. You have the fog, you know there's the the road, you have the fog, but then there's some other variables that I'm not really sure um how to approach this because maybe you don't have all the data, maybe you have some, and maybe you're trusting that that's enough, but you're not really sure.

unknown 21:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 21:30

So how would you proceed in a situation where you you have everything you believe you need, but you're not you're not really sure that you do in order to make it to that outcome that you desire?

SPEAKER_01 21:43

Yeah, I think uh uh I will start with the way that I approach it is with a lot of questions before making a decision. Um, you know, I like to be super thoughtful, if you will. Um, when it comes to anything, I was like, you know, personally professional. Way it's or you're building something that's you know, does it align with your values? Just start with questions, right? Um I considering all the people that this would impact. Um, do I have the most information that I need available today to make this decision? Um, I would say if the answers are yes to most of those, and for me, it's led to good decisions, and I think that's the best outcome. It is, did I ask all the right questions up front? Um, if I feel like I said yes, then I think I'll have a good outcome based on the information um that I know. Um, so I would say uh that's that's probably the big thing. It was just starting with a lot of questions, making a decision based on the answers that you get, um, because you don't always know what the outcome is going to be.

SPEAKER_00 22:45

Um projection, right? I mean, it's all a projection. You don't know until it actually happens. You may have various levels of certainty that you know this will work because maybe we've done it before, or the data supports this. You know, I'm 99% sure that we're gonna get there, but you still have that 1%.

SPEAKER_01 23:08

Yeah, we're always gonna have that one. Yep, yep. And it's based on you know your risk tolerance. But yeah, you can only make a decision with the information that you have available to you. Right. So I think that the biggest thing is just, you know, having your um your guidelines and your rule books if these are the questions that I need to ask to get the right amount of information to make this particular decision now. Um, because things are gonna change, right? And once those things change, you can make adjustments on the decision that you made. But um, I would say it's you know, you can only you're never gonna have a hundred percent of anything.

SPEAKER_00 23:46

Right. Yes, I mean that's just that's impossible. Um you you may have, like I said, different uh levels of certainty because you've done this a hundred times, and you know, this is what usually happens, but still you don't know it may be something different. You know, for example, if you're driving through the fog, there's construction. Maybe you have to take a detour because and you didn't know that they closed that exit off the freeway. You gotta make a different decision, you know. Yeah, it's like now I gotta make another decision. What do I do? So yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 24:25

When there are different things that pop up, you know, I would say you gotta pivot. Sometimes you just gotta pivot. This is the thing I wanted to do, is where I was trying to go. But when something new comes, you gotta make adjustments, and and that's that's important to always be flexible, like just be flexible, be able to pivot quickly when it matters, uh, or slow down when you know when you should slow down.

SPEAKER_00 24:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 24:48

Yeah, it's whenever something new is introduced, you gotta be able to make a decision based on that new information.

SPEAKER_00 24:55

So, what what type of signals do you look for that tell you when it's time to pivot? Like, give an example of a time when you when you uh believed based on everything you had, all the data you collected, the information showed that hey, this is you know the direction, but then you had to pivot. Something told you you had to pivot. Like, how do you how do you know when when you need to do what's what's a situation that you were in when you had to do that? When you had to change course.

SPEAKER_01 25:32

Yeah, I would say um I've I've changed courses a lot. I think, you know, one a good one that's um relevant, a good one that's relevant today, we can dive a little bit deep into technology, um, is that you know, everybody's been talking about AI. AI this, AI that. Um, and so I would think a lot of folks today thought that um I would say AI is a good thinking partner. And what's important is um people are thinking about pivoting in their careers. They're thinking, oh, is my job gonna go away because AI will replace it? And um, there's a lot of that uncertainty and anxiety there. Um and I would say, well, let's figure out how you can inject AI into the work that you do today. And so I think in in whatever you're doing, in whatever role, um pivot doesn't always mean change directions, it means let's just just add something else to the mix sometimes. Like I didn't think I needed this, but because AI will replace it, and um, there's a lot of that uncertainty and anxiety there. Um, and I would say, well, let's figure out how you can inject AI into the work that you do today. And so I think in in whatever you're doing, in whatever role, um pivot doesn't always mean change directions, it means let's just just add something else to the mix sometimes. Like I didn't think I needed this, but now I know that I do. An example for me is you know, I um went through my undergrad, you know, got my undergrad in public relations and um pivoted, right? And so I thought I was gonna be this amazing writer. And I think, you know, storytelling and ability, right, is super critical in product because you got to be able to tell people this is the product that we have, this is how it works, this is why it'll be meaningful to you. So there is content strategy related to it, but I'm not in PR, right? I'm I'm a product leader, director of product. Um, but I pivoted from this was my goal um to come out and get my degree in that. Um, but then I started doing something technology. And so I started working, um, leaned into my career for several years before going back to get my executive MBA. And it was because I got to a level where I said, you know, I need to dive in deeper to finance a bit more. I don't love numbers, but I knew that it was going to be so important for me to be in, you know, in my last words ahead of product, um, to lead into a space of strategy. I got to understand financial impact. And so for me, that was a pivot. I was so good at what I did in my career. I didn't really need additional education. Um, but I said, wait, the signal is telling me, Christine, in order to keep elevating up into your career, um, don't just get an MBA, but get an executive MBA because you know, where you're trying to drive business is going to require something more. And so for me, that was a pivot. It was, I was so comfortable in the role I was doing. I was like, oh, now, you know, I gotta, I'm gonna put myself under pressure to go back to school and to do an executive MBA with a kid and all the things. Um, but I would say those are the signals that I look for. It is, you know, again, back to that self-awareness. Um, have I reached the ceiling of a level? And if a signal is saying yes, it is, let's figure out how to break through. And that might require additional education, that may require um establishing a new relationship, getting a mentor, getting some executive coaching, something of those natures. Um, so I would say looking for signals, which is, you know, have I reached my max? If it's saying yes, then I need to do something more, um, is kind of how I've I've looked at them.

SPEAKER_00 29:12

Question for you. Then when you're when you're with your your team, you're you're you're leading them, and there's ambiguity because that happens, right? There's ambiguity sometimes, the fog, as we're talking about it, we're calling it the fog, uncertainty. How do you decide when to slow down, when to pause, or accelerate in those uncertain conditions? Oh, let's see. Uh like what methods do you use or values or just what's your your signals? You've used signals, you talked about values. What are some things and you and you're leading the team? So how do you know when to, you know, let's slow down the pace, let's pick it up, or let's just pause for a minute. Let's just, you know, kind of regroup.

SPEAKER_01 30:10

Yeah. If we go back to, I would say like what we talked about in the beginning of um that self-awareness piece, sharing for me, it's been sharing Christina's operating model, um, getting that from my direct reports, their operating model. Um, that that for me is critical because that gives me a good foundation to understand um when does this person make their best decisions? When do I make my best decisions? Um, and when I think about you know when to slow down versus speed up, all those things matter. You have to take all that context into uh into consideration because there could be days where you know I can make quick decisions um based on how I'm feeling and thinking. And I know that my team can make quick decisions. And then there are other points where it's like, no, we need to slow down. Um, we need to slow down because the business is actually focused on um there's a bigger thing that we need to focus on today. And so we need to put all this other stuff. Um, so we need to park a lot of other things. Um, and so I think it's just first understanding, you know, who you are, when do you work the best, understanding who others are, when they work the best, um, because uh you can just solve things faster. And then also you just have to be super sensitive of when to slow down. Um so most of you know, I know that's not a you know, ooh, aha answer, but a lot of it is just, you know, understanding people a bit, understanding yourself. Um, no, I'm not when I'm tired, I don't need to make certain decisions. You know, I mean it's not gonna be good for me or for anybody. Um, and so it might be all right, let's put this on the shelf today. We'll get to it tomorrow, but let's put it on the shelf today. So I would say it's not um no magic there, but it's just like sometimes it just starts with being self-aware. Understanding who you're working with, how they like to work, and then make a decision based on that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 32:14

That's I mean, then that will resonate with with somebody. I don't think any answer is like, you know, one size fits all. It's based on your experience and and you know how how you would approach it. Because I know sometimes we have to do that, but but in making those decisions, especially when you're involved, your team is involved in the company, right? Because you're doing it for your your company or your your customer. That's that's huge. That's a that's heavy on you and you know your team. So you have to really, like you said, you know, knowing where everybody is and you know what we're doing, making sure that everybody's good, that you know, we can move on, or do we need to just pause for a minute, regroup?

SPEAKER_01 33:03

You know, you when you are refreshed, you're more alert. Uh, you can take a little bit uh focus effort into your work, but when you're tired, mistakes happen. And so I've learned to not push people to their max. Um, and I'll learn to not allow being pushed to my max as well, to say, you know, you know, now's the time to speak up. I'm tired, I'm exhausted. And then I become the leader to say, hey, take a break. Go eat dinner. Yeah, you haven't gotten up from your desk all day, take a break. I like to do walkie meetings. Sometimes I'm like, hey, put your earbuds in, let's walk on our one-on-ones and talk and have a discussion rather than clicking at a computer all day. Um, yeah, those those things matter. It's super important to um yeah.

SPEAKER_00 33:45

Hindsight, right? Because I I know earlier in my career, I was one of those people that would work around the clock and you know, have my team working. And I didn't know what I didn't know. I I didn't, I was new, a new leader. I didn't know that that wasn't healthy for anybody, as you know, as far as being productive or physical health, mental health. I, you know, I was unaware of all of that, and I had to learn that you need balance here. You can't just, you know, push, push, push all the time, go, go, go, and think that you you're doing something. That's why I said, how much work do you think you're getting done? If you're working like that, you're not really.

SPEAKER_01 34:29

Yeah, yeah. And on the very side, yeah, and on the flip side of that, I, you know, and I started out, I was afraid to say something. I was afraid to say, I'm working too much, right? Because I was like, do, do, do, because I know that that's what the direction that was coming down. And I think, you know, um, the as you progress in your career, um, especially starting out as a manager before becoming a leader, starting out as a manager, you got to be able to um to speak up, to say, I'm tired, or I don't know how to do this. You know, those are the things that matter. And then when you become a leader, you have to start speaking, advocating for others. You might just say it's a CC level, the team has been working too hard. We restart maps. Um, and so I think that's important to be able to first, um, yep, you know, uh, you know, I don't know if balance is a real thing, but I'll like say, you know, you're sometimes you're gonna be doing a lot of this and less of that, but it's never gonna be a perfect balance of anything. It's just you're just doing a little bit more over here today than you were doing yesterday.

SPEAKER_00 35:26

All right, but you you you get to you get to figure out what you need. Yeah. And it's okay if I need to do this, if I need to step away, if I need to leave early, if I need to go take a nap.

SPEAKER_01 35:40

Yeah, exactly. Because it's gonna be there tomorrow. It's not great. Right, right.

SPEAKER_00 35:43

I need to go eat, I need to go work out or something. You know, take a like you said, take a walk. I need to go walk around the block and come back. So that that does matter. Is what advice would you give to emerging leaders who feel overwhelmed by uncertainty?

SPEAKER_01 36:03

I would say overwhelmed, you know, stop waiting to feel ready, I think is what I would say. Um, you're not always gonna know all the answers. Um, so just jump out of there. You know, most leaders you admire didn't feel ready when they stepped into certain opportunities. They felt uncertain, they felt challenged, they felt uncomfortable. Uh, the difference is they moved anyway, and I think that's super important too. You know, courage isn't uh just you know the absence of uncertainty, it's movement despite of uncertainty. You know, every step forward becomes evidence that you can handle the next thing, and eventually that becomes confidence. So I would say that's our overarching um advice to emerging leaders. Um, you're not always gonna be ready. But once you get in the thing, it's like, all right, you know, it wasn't that bad. Now it could be bad, and then you might need a pivot. But I would say that's my big thing to emerging leaders is um sometimes you gotta just leap. You gotta just leap. You don't know what you don't know until you get in the thing, and then also just have folks around you that can be that support. Um, you know, your personal board of directors, I would say, have people from different industries that can help you see things from a different perspective. Um, so yeah, that's my overarching for emerging leaders. It is you're not always gonna know all the answers. Nobody knows all the answers, but you gotta make a decision and then move forward with the information that you have.

SPEAKER_00 37:31

Right. And my last question for you is when the fog finally lifts, what do you hope your team says about how you led them through it?

SPEAKER_01 37:40

Oh, I hope that my team says that um that she cared. Like she knew that I was nervous through the fall. She knew that I felt uncertain and didn't hold it against me, didn't bring up, oh, this person didn't know this, but that um that I'm a leader that listens, um, that I'm thoughtful, that I want to collaborate and help people solve problems together. Um, even when I don't know, I like to share that I don't know, to be transparent and up front with people. Um, so that's what I would say. I want my team to know um, you know, she doesn't have all the answers, and she's not afraid to say that she doesn't have all the answers, but we will figure it out together.

SPEAKER_00 38:20

That's awesome. Well, thank you so much, Christina. And I really appreciate you sharing with us about leading through the fog. You've been listening to Growing Up, the Age of Your Emotions podcast. Thank you for joining me for this conversation along with Christina Cage on Leading Through the Fog. If there's one truth I hope you carry with you, it's this uncertainty is not a reflection of your inadequacy, it's a reflection of your humanity. And emotional maturity isn't about eliminating the fog, it's about learning to move with intention inside it. Every unclear moment is shaping your emotional age as a leader. Every imperfect decision is strengthening your resilience. Every step you take, even the hesitant ones, is evidence of your growth. If this episode supported you, share it with someone who's navigating their own fog. And remember, leadership development isn't about becoming flawless. It's about becoming more aware, more grounded, and more aligned with who you're growing into. Until next time, keep keep evolving, keep choosing courage, and keep honoring the emotional age you're stepping into. This is Dr. Melanie and Powers, and you've been listening to Growing at the Age of Your Emotions podcast. Thank you for having me.