Continued Growth, Reflection & Self‑Trust

Continued Growth, Reflection & Self‑Trust

Growth isn’t a milestone, it’s a relationship with yourself. 
In this episode of Growing Up: The Age of Your Emotions, we explore what it means to evolve with intention, pause long enough to hear your own truth, and rebuild trust in the parts of you that are still becoming.

This conversation invites listeners into the tender, powerful work of:

• Recognizing your growth edge even when the path feels unclear
• Reflecting honestly on the stories you’ve outgrown
• Reclaiming self‑trust after seasons of doubt or disconnection

Through grounded dialogue and emotionally mature insights, we unpack how continued growth requires courage, how reflection creates clarity, and how self‑trust becomes the anchor that steadies you through every transition.

If you’re navigating a season of becoming, this episode meets you right where you are and reminds you that you’re allowed to grow gently, boldly, and in your own time.

Guest:

Dr. McClain Sampson is a PhD-trained social work scholar, professor, author and empowerment coach who helps high-capacity women build self-trust that holds, especially in the moments that matter most.

As the creator of the Savage Self-Care framework, her work bridges research, relational depth, and lived experience to guide women out of self-abandonment and into integrity-led decision-making, emotional responsibility, and grounded authority.

Her background includes advanced training in clinical social work and extensive research on maternal mental health, including postpartum depression and the systemic, relational, and psychological factors that shape family wellbeing. She brings both professional expertise and lived experience navigating addiction, divorce, and the complex emotional terrain of parenting through crisis.

Dr. Sampson’s work challenges the cultural narrative that good mothers sacrifice themselves to save their children.

Instead, she teaches that self-trust, emotional boundaries, and internal authority are not luxuries, they are the architecture of sustainable love, effective parenting, and personal wholeness.

Where can I buy McClain’s  book?:  Amazon link: https://a.co/d/09llMBVO or, buy it through amazon on her website: https://hearmeroarcoaching.com/

How can I contact McClain: website https://hearmeroarcoaching.com/, instagram: @hearmeroarcoaching, LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/in/mcsampson

Added Tool: An online tool to help you identify your top 5 values: https://www.think2perform.com/values/#start

Host:

Dr. Melanie Empowers holds a Doctor of Management in Organizational Leadership and is a highly experienced leadership professional with over 30 years in Corporate IT, specializing in leadership and organizational development. She also holds multiple professional certifications, including being a Professional Certified Coach (PCC) through an ICF‑credentialed institution.

The insights shared here are grounded in leadership experience, coaching practice, and organizational expertise. If you are in need of mental health support, please seek guidance from a licensed mental health professional in your area.

Dr. Melanie Empowers is not a licensed mental health provider, therapist, or counselor. The content shared through this podcast is for educational, personal growth, and leadership development purposes only and is not intended to diagnose, treat, or replace professional mental health care.

https://drmelanieempowers.com

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Sorry. Hello, everyone. Welcome to Growing Up, the Age of Your Emotions podcast. And I'm here with Dr. McClain Samson. And today we're talking about continued growth, reflection, and self-care. McClain is going to uh share some of her experience with us, and I'll ask questions and then we'll have a conversation and we'll just see where that takes us. Welcome to the podcast, McClain. Thank you for joining us today.

SPEAKER_00 0:29

Good morning. Thank you so much, Dr. Melanie. I'm excited to be here.

SPEAKER_01 0:33

All right, McLean, you just recently wrote a book. Can you tell us a little bit about your book?

SPEAKER_00 0:39

Yes, I would love to. Um, the book details a year in time. It's like a snapshot of the moment I dropped my teenage son off at rehab across the country, rehab for mental health and substance use addiction. He was 16 until a year later when he is graduating from the youth program, like the aftercare, where he was still in Arizona by then. And I wanted to tell this story from a mother's perspective. And so the book details my personal journey of having to let go, having to walk through a parallel process really of trying to rebuild myself and do healing on myself and really figure out how I wanted to have a new kind of relationship with my son because they tell you in rehab that if the kid comes back to the same family dynamics, the same home environment, they're much more likely to relapse. So I took that assignment to do my own inner discovery very seriously. And the book details that.

SPEAKER_01 2:00

Oh, that's awesome. What's the name of your book?

SPEAKER_00 2:03

It is called Savage Self-Care. It's kind of in the window. Savage Self-Care: A Mother's Fight to Save Her Son and Rebuild the Trust She Thought She Lost.

SPEAKER_01 2:14

All right. I I have my copy. So can you tell our listeners where they can get their copy?

SPEAKER_00 2:21

Yes, it's available on Amazon right now. It's available in paperback and on um Kindle. Great. Amazon, and we can include the link if you need to.

SPEAKER_01 2:33

Okay, well, we will do that. We'll include the link along with your bio. But I'm really excited to talk to you about um growth and self-care and um self-reflection because I did read um a lot of your book. I haven't finished the entire book, but I have read it. I I brought my um, I keep my Kindle in my bag so that when I'm waiting or if there's an opportunity for me to get a few chapters in, um, if I'm out somewhere, then I will do that. Even if I just want to take a break, I have my Kindle with me. So I have been reading your book and I found that a lot of uh the information in there can be very useful to people who may be experiencing uh similar situations or the same as you, or um if you're just looking to take care of yourself in a different way, just some different ways that we can get in there and continue to grow because we never stop. There's always something new that we can learn about ourselves, uh something different that we can do to support ourselves, and that self-reflection really does help with that. So thank you for the book and thank you so much for being here today. So I wanted to ask you uh what is one area of your life or leadership where you're still actively growing and what is stretching you right now?

SPEAKER_00 3:57

Yes. So I am not only an entrepreneur who is a coach and an author and a speaker, I am also the dean of research at our graduate college of social work. And so I am really challenged to fulfill both roles in a way where I feel in integrity. And I really think where I'm stretched most, well, a couple ways is I am so self-aware that I'm constantly aware that I'd really like to be focusing full-time on the coaching, the writing, the speaking. But what pays the bills and what I earned my degrees for is this academic role. And I value the people I work with and I value my boss. So I want to do a good job. So I um often my signs of burnout will come from if I'm noticing I'm putting all of my energy into the academic job because it requires a lot of like quick responses and building other people up. And then I'll notice like I haven't been pouring into myself, which comes through journaling, writing, trying to get speaking engagements, trying to grow this business, right? So a lot of my self-care lately when it comes to leadership involves action, things like setting boundaries and enforcing the boundaries in um mostly an academic setting, like not being available all the time, really trying to coach myself through like this is not an emergency. I can, I can move another priority here or there, um, and learning to be just highly organized, as we were talking about before the podcast, which I really think I notice it's a form of self-care because if I put in the work in the beginning to be organized and to put everything on my calendar and to stick with that structure, I feel better long term. But it really does require um some investment on the front end.

SPEAKER_01 6:06

Yes. Yes. Um, you're right. It it is a form of self-care because, like you said, as we were talking, I just I realize that when I am organized, when I plan out what I need to do, be more strategic about it, I feel better about the entire process and my end results. But when I'm not, when I'm being ad hoc, or if I deviate from what I hadn't originally started to do, then um I get anxious. The anxiety comes in and then I feel like I'm overwhelmed a lot when I when I do that. And then everything just seems a lot bigger than than what it is. And I think that approach or that that thought process of being very strategic or just planning out, that covers um your work life, life in the community, your home life. I mean, just period. You can just do that with everything that you do. And I think it does um help you with the self-care because it is saying, okay, you know, let me do these things, but I want to do them so that I can have some peace about it while I'm doing it, versus just being really flustered about things or feeling like I don't have enough time or I have all this to do. And then you start worrying, and then future thinking and all that stuff comes up. So I think that's a good approach. But I never heard anybody say that it was a form of self-care until you just did. So I like that. I think that's gonna be um something that I'll have to really think about or to help me really think about it.

SPEAKER_00 7:48

Me too, because it's like I made that connection, right? And then you deepened it and kind of confirmed it. And I'm like, you're right, I do feel better. So I think I'm gonna have to move that as, you know, front of mind. That's the that's kind of the the fundamental thing that you do that will make other things easier. And also what I find for anybody else who does these jobs where one, my academic job is highly intellectual, my coaching and my entrepreneurship requires I be intuitive and creative, right? So that's another reason where I will feel split. And I notice that when I'm more organized and structured with time, it invites the creativity in. Like I have to structure when I'm really on my game, I structure um two hours to work on working on my signature talk. No other emails, nothing. And I notice I will be a lot more creative and connected to my inner truth, which is what's required when we're doing coaching and working with other people to help them discover their truths, right?

SPEAKER_01 8:53

Yes, absolutely. So, but what tends to get in the way of your growth? Because that that is growth, being able to thoughtfully prepare to transition or at least adopt another uh form of work, being an entrepreneur, you're wanting to uh have speaking engagements, you're an author, and then you also have your um faculty position at the university. So what um tends to get in the way of your growth at times?

SPEAKER_00 9:30

Well, one thing I've noticed that tends to get in the way besides not being proactive and structured ahead of time with how I spend my energy is I really have a fear of missing out. Like I really do, and I only thought it happened socially, and I noticed it happens uh professionally, right? Because I get asked to do um lots of things, to be on committees on the academic side, and then maybe to be in like networking groups on the entrepreneur side. And I want to do it all, and I want to do it all all the time. And then and then I get frustrated that I don't have time, right? So really catching myself. Um, one thing with boundaries I've been trying to work on and that I talk to people about is set a boundary with yourself. You know, you have to really, for me, I have to pause and be like, where how will I do this? If I say yes, when will it get done? How will it get done? And how does it help my growth? So I kind of do that, um, you know, those questions for myself.

SPEAKER_01 10:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 10:37

And then I think like many women, I also don't want to let people down. And so when I'm really operating at my highest level, I'm pausing and I am making sure if I commit to something, I can give it 100% my integrity, maybe not my my energy, but 100% I'm going to give them what they need. I'm gonna feel good about how I gave it. And that if I can't, I need to say no. You know, um, because it lets people down even more when you commit to something and then um you don't you don't even do it as well as you said, or you keep saying, oh, it's coming, it's coming, it's making, you know. So I really am working on trying to gatekeep myself a little bit about what I say yes to.

SPEAKER_01 11:27

Yeah, that's a that's a very common just activity, I think, that people do. They'll take on more than than they can complete, instead of saying, hey, I'm not sure that I can do this, or I may need some help. I maybe I can't do it by myself. But you're right, I would rather for someone to tell me up front that no, I'm not gonna be able to do this, instead of saying they're gonna do it and not finishing or not doing it right, or being being late with it, you know, not finishing on time. So yeah, that um that resonates with with me a lot because I don't like, I don't like that if if I delegate something as a leader, if I delegate something to you, then tell me if you need help or if it's something that you can do or not. I don't want you to tell me right before it's due that I wasn't able to finish it. And I think people do that because they don't want to let people down. And you're right. It hurts less when you say it up front than if you are expected to deliver something and then you don't do it. I think that's that's I think that's worse. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 12:43

Yeah, because if we think about it, you can only let a person down if you convey a certain expectation. So it's it's healthier to set a realistic expectation from the front end.

SPEAKER_01 12:55

Yeah, yeah. So what's the moment you paused long enough to hear something you have been avoiding?

SPEAKER_00 13:04

Mm-hmm. Well, I think that for me was this the moment of dropping my son off at rehab because I've been in this busy busy bee cycle since the kids were born. They're now, my son is now 19 and my daughter is 17. But I got a divorce when they were very young. I was already working on the tenure track. Um, so I've been used to a life that is busy enough that I could not be conscious. I could not, I could actually avoid certain things. So when I made the decision to drop him off and then actually took him and had to leave him at a place and see him in my rearview mirror, um, I started writing that day. I've always been a journaler, but I started writing that day, like this is the this is the pause. You know, I think we all go through life thinking that the time will come when things will slow down, where we can maybe re-evaluate things, where we can do the things that we love and that we're passionate about. But I find that that never has come. You know, ever since I started graduate school, pregnant kids, it's it's the pause doesn't come unless you take advantage of something like this, which is a major life upset, or if you reorganize your life in some way to have a pause. So when that pause came, um, and I started reading this book that they recommend through rehab called Parallel Process, it says that parents have to work on their own negative patterns, their own method or their own way of being dysfunctional, their own way of avoiding connection, their own way of like, what are you doing as a parent that is preventing you from being your fully authentic self, from being healed, really? Because that's a whole nother story, right? Is like when we go into parenthood, if we haven't really worked on ourselves and healed our own wounds, we kind of reenact those and we perpetuate patterns. So the pause for me was taking that time to, you know, go to therapy, to start going to Al-Anon so I can understand what my son is going through, but also to stop trying to control his process and to really focus on what I need to do for myself to be healthy and how I can be present for my daughter, who is still here, when really what I wanted to do was just obsess about how my son was doing. So that was that was a very um big turning point in my life. That was a big pause.

SPEAKER_01 15:52

Yeah. Sounds, sounds like it. How how how was that being able to be there for your for both children who had different needs at the same time? And I'm sure a lot of parents would love to hear how you navigated through that.

SPEAKER_00 16:08

Yeah. So one thing to know about me is I'm always gonna keep it real. Um, so I will tell you realistically how it was was exhausting. Um, you know, from the time my son was from the time he was like five from kindergarten, there were noticeable things going on that needed to be attended to. He uh something was going on, he kept getting trouble in school, we were getting divorced. Could it be that? Could it be learning disabilities? And then my daughter, who's a couple of years younger, was the easiest baby, the easiest child. She never demanded anything. And so naturally I was putting more of my energy and attention and worry on him. So how I was handling it was truly parenting in different ways at all times. Like I would, you know, try to connect with him in a way and set structure and boundaries and then turn to her and kind of parent her in a different way, which is more like she's very independent and she needs to figure things out herself, which all kids do. But anybody with a kid who has um maybe some learning delays or cognitive processing issues, whatever, they have a lot harder time figuring things out. And when they're trying to figure things out, they're literally almost burning down the house or running into traffic, right? So that was how I dealt with it before rehab. And then I had I took advantage of the pause when he was gone to really reconnect with my daughter and ask what she needed and follow her lead. Um, I think a lot of humility is needed. I think a lot of grace for yourself is needed because we do know that kids need to be parented. Each child needs a little bit different. Um, you know, you need to tailor it to each child. Like in general, you can parent with the same values I did for both kids. But so I think really taking care of yourself and making sure that you are attuning to each kid. And what do you need to do with yourself to be able to do that? So I can give a really quick example if we have time. So for example, looking back, I I learned during the um, while he was gone, I was really working on myself, and I still continue to learn. This is a long process, right? Is that when my son, who is highly sensitive and very reactive, that's kind of how he was born. It's his disposition, it really would trigger me. Every time he had a tantrum, a meltdown, I felt hot and prickly, you know, those um that sensation you get when your adrenaline spikes. So I would feel that way. I would feel very triggered as like, I'm doing everything right, I'm doing things differently than my mother did. Why is this kid still falling apart? And so what I what I learned now that I wish I would have known then was that I needed to pause and really learn how to take care of myself, how to self-regulate, so that when he's escalating and he's losing it, losing it, losing it, I have tools to take care of myself because I kind of knew how to do it, but I did it in a way that was super exhausting. Like I was very hard on myself about it, right? And so I was really wearing myself out in the process. So I I'm hoping that that will help people is that if you can really be radically honest with yourself, like what is it about this tantrum by this tiny little person that is making me feel so out of control that I want to, I want to get in a car. I used to have this fantasy I'm gonna get in a car and it was a station wagon for some reason, and I'm gonna drive to Alaska and I'm not coming back. Like it was such a I've never even been to Alaska. I don't drive a station wagon. But what that what I had to tune into is this is telling me I want to escape my life. What is it about what he's doing where he's really doesn't have the control that's making me want to escape my life? Uh it's because I feel like a failure. Okay, why do I feel like a failure? How can I work on that? So hopefully that will help people that's hearing this.

SPEAKER_01 20:27

That's that's real honesty because I'm sure that you know there are parents who I know some people who go through similar situations like that. And I'm not sure how they process it. I've never really talked to them about it, but I've seen that where it's like a domino effect. Like they get upset, then it upsets you, and then the whole house is upset when could could I have done something different so that it wouldn't affect me that way or affect other people who are around? Yeah, that's that's really um interesting. So the next question I have for you is after a difficult moment, how do you process what happened in a way that leads to clarity instead of shame?

SPEAKER_00 21:20

Mm-hmm. Yes. So I like I mentioned before, I'm a lifelong journaler, and it's really important for me. I used to take it for granted. Um, and then I've kind of learned, no, this is this is a way that is helping me achieve clarity. And achieving clarity helps me respond calmly, right? Achieving clarity helps me reach these big goals that I have. So for me, I I journal, I just had to do it yesterday. Um, I say have to because it's not like I'm like, dear diary. It's really like something where I go and I call it a brain dump, where I'm like, nobody is listening. And I have to, this is important too. I have to make a boundary with myself. I am not going to judge myself while I write. Because there's something very helpful about putting everything you think and feel on the page, even if you hate yourself in the moment, even if you hate your kid in the moment. Like you have to be totally honest. And then you have to be compassionate with yourself. You have to say, of course, you feel like you can't stand your kid right now because there he's been screaming for five hours. Any person with a nervous system would feel stressed out. It's okay. So I think this is a really important part that we don't talk about as adults, but I know a lot of us try to teach it to kids, is that when you're having a strong emotional reaction, or maybe you acted in a way that you regret, it's really important to be really honest about what you did and to then hold yourself accountable by seeing what you did that contributed to the problem, but also hold yourself accountable for self-compassion and grace. And then what are you going to do differently? I think that part gets missed a lot. And you do, but also you need to change that stuff. You need to change whatever you're doing that is contributing to the dysfunctional situation. So I think self-accountability partnered with grace and compassion is what I do, whether it's through journaling, whether it's through talking with friends, whether it's through booking a therapy session. But I think those components are really important.

SPEAKER_01 23:47

Yes, I would agree uh with you, but I wanted to ask you how will you transfer what you've learned and how to uh communicate differently or interact differently with your son or your children? How can you translate that into a work environment? Like are there any of those things that you can transition over to working with uh uh your colleagues or people who report to you?

SPEAKER_00 24:20

Yes, yes, absolutely. So, you know, we are having relationships with people all the time. The obvious ones are, you know, if you have a husband or a wife or you have kids or family, but we're also having relationships with our boss, with our coworkers. We show up in a way that then tells them how they should treat us. For example, if I am showing up to my direct reports and I'm always late, but I'm telling them I expect them to be on time, that tells them that I'm a hypocrite, right? It tells them that I'm going to have a double standard. That erodes trust in the team. Another thing that besides integrity, I think of that as integrity where I'm going to act the way that I say I'm going to act. If I say that I'm somebody that has an open door policy, then I should not be acting annoyed every time somebody pops their head into my office. So I don't say I have an open door policy. I say I believe in communication and I believe in boundaries with time. So if you want to talk, please just schedule a time. And I say, and if you want to just pop your head in and say hello, I'll have my door wide open. Right. So I think communicating very clearly what your expectations are and what you commit to bringing to the table is very important professionally. I think I have found as I'm in these this leadership position as the dean of research, that me telling them um clear expectations up front, like I need for you to submit your grants 72 hours before they're due at the federal agency. That gives my team time to review them. Like I tell them what I expect, I tell them why I expect it, and then I give a process that will make that easy to do. You know, like here's the policy you can refer to, or here's the online folder that you can do that with. I've also found it really helpful for having difficult conversations because in a perfect world, we would just tell people, hey, this is what needs to happen, and they would just do it. But anybody who has managed people knows that that is not how it works. And oftentimes the most difficult part of a project is the people, right? Managing people. So I think I I strongly recommend take whatever HR courses you can to prepare for difficult conversations because it's those difficult conversations where we say, hey, what you're saying that you're doing isn't matching up with what you're actually doing.

SPEAKER_01 27:16

Right.

SPEAKER_00 27:17

And for us to fulfill the deadline or fulfill the mutual goal here, here's what I need to see happen. Are you going to be able to do that? And so I strongly believe in building up your communication skills. Another thing I've really translated is um the ability to sit with discomfort and to sit with uncertainty because that shows up all the time in a workplace, is that you will be uncomfortable with somebody else's communication style. I can think of um a couple faculty members who just the way they communicate offends the people who I work with, my team. And so then I schedule time to talk with those faculty members and just say, you know, I'm not sure if you're aware, but when you start an email this way or when you um call them when they're not scheduled or whatever, it's conveying to them that you aren't respecting their time. I'm not sure if they're aware of that. And so I think those kinds of conversations are so crucial. And almost all the time, the people I have the conversation with are grateful that they then understand better how their actions and their words are affecting other people. Because oftentimes nobody's told them. Right.

SPEAKER_01 28:38

Yeah. Yeah. People don't know what they don't know.

unknown 28:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 28:42

And sometimes they're they're so unaware that they're the the something that they're doing is just a small change that they they can make and it'll make a world of difference, but they they're unaware because nobody's told them. So you speaking up and saying that, that's that's huge because sometimes people will just talk in the background and not tell the person because they may have no idea that, oh, it's affecting you that way. I I didn't intend to seem like I was disrespecting you or not respecting your time. Let me do something different. But if I don't know, then and you're just going along with it, I'm thinking everything is okay and it's not. And then that's how people um will want to change jobs too, because they figure, well, I can't work for this person, but they've never told the person that this is how when you do these things, it affects me this way. And I think that sometimes in the work environment, people are not given that type of freedom to be able to speak that way. You know, there's some kind of fear of retaliation because it happens.

SPEAKER_00 30:02

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 30:02

You know, even though companies will say, well, you know, there's a no retaliation policy, but people still do it.

SPEAKER_00 30:09

Yes. People are going to still do it. People are going to people, and you know, I know your expertise is in emotional intelligence, and people are not taught emotional intelligence. And what we're talking about is you have to have a level of emotional intelligence to be able to have the self-awareness and to be able to take it in and then to be able to do something about it.

SPEAKER_01 30:35

Right. Right. It it matters a lot. And um, like you said, this there are uh courses to take, they're free courses, there's articles to read, and you can take different personality tests, different quizzes that are out there where you may not have to pay any money, or if you want to pay for a course, there's there's so much out there to offer anyone who's in a leadership role or thinking about becoming a leader, or just want to have more information about how to engage better with their colleagues or people they're leading, or um just in their community, it it matters because we don't, if we if we're not really looking in ourselves, and this goes back to the self-reflection, right? We're not really paying attention to what we're doing and how it affects other people, and we're only thinking about what I'm doing, and I'm thinking it's right, but I'm not getting any feedback on that. That's a problem. I should be able to have somebody as a sounding board, someone who's going to be honest and tell me, you know what, when you when you say things in that tone, and I may not even know that I'm using it.

SPEAKER_00 31:45

You don't even know you have a tone.

SPEAKER_01 31:47

No, a tone. I don't know what you're talking about. But yeah, so that would help me at least be more mindful and pay attention to how I engage and what you know what I say or how I say certain things, because that if nobody says anything, then it just, you know, it's just something that continues to be wrong and not addressed at all versus telling people and then everybody can feel better about what they're doing and how they're engaging with each other. So yeah. All right. Can you share a time when you broke trust with yourself and how you rebuilt it?

SPEAKER_00 32:26

Yes, I think um this is again another really honest answer. Um, is that for so long it it's kind of generalized to other things, but since this is a or I could generalize it in other areas, but I'll use a work example leadership, is when I continued to complain about how unhappy I was at my job. Um, this was before I was a dean of research. I was just a tenured professor. And um complaining about something over and over and not doing something about it breaks my self-trust because I think of myself and I want to be a person who does what they say, says what they do. And if you're going to complain about something in this one precious life and you have some control over it, you should do something about it. So that was um several years ago when I reached that recognition of like, oh my gosh, I'm I'm living out of integrity, not because I'm miserable at the job, because that's what I was telling myself. It's like I'm so disappointed in myself. I'm not doing my dreams, I'm not doing what I love, I'm doing this job that is for external reasons. It's for money, it's um, it's for status. Like the best job you can get when you get a PhD is to be a tenured professor, right? That's what they tell you in graduate school, at least. Right. It's not true. It's not true. That's what they tell you. So um, but what I realized was like, wait, that's not the problem. The problem is I am complaining about it and not doing something about it. And so I rebuilt self-trust by thinking, well, what do I what do I want to do? I like these parts of the job, but I'm missing the things that are feeding my soul. And so then somehow, you know, just synchronicity, I stumbled upon um life coach, life coach training. And I really admire Dr. Martha Beck, and she has a life coach course. And so I started enrolling in that, and sure enough, it's such an easy fit. I love it, brings all my clinical skills in, but also helps me dream. And so that's the way I rebuilt trust with myself. And trust with yourself is built by keeping your word to yourself. So even in these little moments when you keep beating yourself up, like, oh, I need to quit. Like I just had some major, you know, ate a lot of sugar Saturday night. And then I beat myself up about it because it makes me feel bad and it makes me feel sick, like it makes me feel like physically bad. Um, but I keep doing it, right? And so the if if I want to build self-trust with myself, I know that if I say I'm going to eat less or I'm going to stop by a certain time, I have to do that. And that builds the self-trust because otherwise you're just constantly providing evidence for yourself that you can't trust yourself. And it becomes this narrative. I can't trust myself around sugar. I can't trust myself around these kind of people because I'll just go off on them. It's like, no, you have to decide what you want to achieve and what you want to do. And then you have to hold yourself accountable for taking the baby steps to do that thing. And when you do what you say you're gonna do, it builds self-trust.

SPEAKER_01 35:59

Mm-hmm. It absolutely does. And it it does, especially when you can, because I often think about if I can't keep a commitment to myself, right? How am I gonna keep it to other people? And why am I always letting myself down? Why do I put myself last? I should be first. It's like putting the the mask on yourself first, then you can save other people. If I put it on everybody else first, then you know what about me? What's gonna happen to me? So I think that that's a very positive approach that you're taking. What ways has your leadership expanded as you've deepened your relationship with yourself?

SPEAKER_00 36:44

I think it's kind of happened backwards for me. I started deepening this relationship with myself, and leadership roles were presented because I I never thought of myself as a leader only because I never had a title or a role. But I've been leading my whole life. Yeah. I lead in my friendship circles, I lead in um my parenting. I've been a single parent and I have single-handedly, I mean, their father is involved. I'm not, I'm not totally alone. But in my house, I am the leader, right? Yeah. In our unit of three, I am the leader. But I just never thought of myself as a leader. And then um, so it's been nice to kind of expand into leadership when I have such a strong sense of self and I've become so accustomed to holding myself accountable and knowing to not overpromise. Um, so those things have been really helpful. And now with the leadership, I'm really I'm fortunate enough to have a boss that supports leadership development. And so I go to trainings on leadership. I took it one step further and um became a Clifton Strengths coach that will be able to be one of the few um faculty or staff at the university where students can call for coaching. Um, and I'm hoping to make our college more of a strengths-based college. So I it's funny because I really think that that's what's happened is that now it's like, and it kind of life kind of works this way, is you want to be prepared when the opportunities come, right? So it's like you want to be prepared if a leadership opportunity comes or you can't stand your job and you want to make a leap. You're only going to be prepared if you have acquired the skills and the self-trust and the the kind of sturdiness within yourself. You're only that's what's going to prepare you to blossom in that role. It's not, it's not a set of skills or, you know, this very clear thing. It's like you need to be prepared to fulfill something larger without burning yourself out, without abandoning yourself. Because I see a lot of leaders who just they just keep going, going, going, going. They're working all of the time. They expect the other people that they work with to work all the time. And that is not how humans operate at their best. Right. Like we can do it for a short amount of time, but it really burns people out. And wouldn't you rather have people who feel seen, valued, heard working with you? So you need to be the role model to do that. And so I'm I'm excited to be in formal leadership positions where I am role modeling what it looks like to hold myself accountable, to take care of myself, to have a work family balance when that it is not built into the structure. I'm yet to work for a place that says we're family friendly, we support work-life balance that actually has structures built. They just mean they're not gonna fire you if you have a family. So we're all out here, all these working parents, working moms, especially, we're trying to do it all at work, 100% at work, and then you come home and it's 100% at home, and it's just not sustainable. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 40:25

That is so that is so true. And and right, just don't say you have work-life balance. You believe in that. Show me what that actually means. What does it actually mean to be able to support work-life balance for for people? Because I think that some companies will say that, but then they leave it up to the manager. Or is that the discretion of your manager? Or it's like, well, how could the company believe this? But someone who works here and I report to them, they don't believe it. So I now I'm I'm stuck. What do I do? Because the company policy says you do, but this person who I report to is saying something totally different. Um, yeah, that's that's interesting because one thing that I've noticed is that the guests who come on, we often, even though the topics are different, we often say some of the same things, and I love it because it's it's so we're aligned. That means that people have the same experiences. You've talked about boundaries, um, you've talked about the worth like work-life balance and how people work their employees too much, you know, want them to work 16-hour days and you know, come back early the next day and and be 100%, you know, at their job. And it's you can't function that way. And then they're not going to do their best. Uh, you probably, if I'm there 16 hours, I'm probably working eight only. I'm just there 16 hours. Yeah. Yeah. So that's interesting that you that you said that. I said, you know, my my my guests aligned. They'd say a lot of the the same things. Yeah. And you talked about boundaries a lot. That's really important to you.

SPEAKER_00 42:17

It is. And it used to be.

SPEAKER_01 42:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 42:20

Actually, to be honest, I used to think I was really good at boundaries because I say what I need and I say no a lot. That's what I thought boundaries were. But boundaries are actually a way of communicating what you're willing to do and how you need to be treated to operate best. And so a big part of the boundary work that I was missing was enforcing a boundary. So, for example, with a work example, um, in our roles as professors, um, and then you add on, they add on an administrative role. It's not like something else is taken away. So now you're expected to do service for the community, teach, research, which nowadays means bringing in external funding. Then there are all the committees on top of things, right? And so when I've added it up, it's very, and you're supposed to publish. This is impossible to do within 40 hours a week. That's why a lot of them are working furiously at night and at three in the morning to write their papers. It's why people think that professors have the summer off, but you see them working. It's because they have to keep writing. We have to write these articles, we have to write these grants, you have to try to bring money in. So, anyway, um a great example of a boundary is it's my responsibility to look at to be really clear on these are all the expectations. How am I going to fulfill these? Okay, be honest, McLean. How much time can you give that? I'm committed to 40 hours a week. Can I make this happen in 40 hours a week? When are the hours? Because luckily I have flexibility. What does that look like? And then I have to say, I this is an example of a boundary. I will not answer emails before 8 a.m. and after 5 p.m. You think people stop emailing me? They don't. A lot of people I work with work at 2 a.m. or they work over the weekends, like because of the reasons I was just describing. And my challenge is to not respond because it still tugs at me. It's always going to pull, pull towards you. You need to, you need to please these people. You need to show that you're working as hard as they are, you know. So that's a boundary that is a great example of like you say you're going to do something, but the boundary doesn't really close the loop until you enforce it. So I do not do it. And even if I secretly respond to an email, I put schedule send and it goes out at eight on the next business day because I don't want to give the impression that I don't stick with what I say I'm going to do. Because I've told people and then I need to stick with it. So boundaries have really helped me with energy, conserving energy that's wasted on resentment, frustration with people. It's um boundaries with time too. Like I have a tendency to just go down a rabbit hole and spend three hours. Like I spent hours yesterday trying to just figure out how to um properly make an ad that would have some impact to promote my book. And I have to be like, okay, time's up. That's what I said I was gonna do. Because I will just spend hours and then I don't get to the other task. So yes, I have um found a lot of peace by using boundaries.

SPEAKER_01 45:54

Yeah, well, thank you for sharing your process because that I think some people don't go the extra um mile to really establish those boundaries because how I want to be treated, what I accept, what my limitations are, all of that is a different form of boundaries. What up when I'm what I'm willing to do, what I'm not willing to do, where I'm willing to go, how I want to engage with people, all of those are things that we can establish boundaries for. But I think sometimes people don't. They'll do it and then be resentful or practice avoidance. I'm not going around them because I know they'll ask me to do them.

SPEAKER_00 46:44

That's how I was for years at work. Yeah. I just can't work with certain people. I'll just avoid them. They don't answer my emails, I'm not gonna answer theirs. And it's like those are the kind of things that build up resentment in you and keep you from having my dream career, right? Like where I have to level up. I have to really stop avoiding, I have to stop being passive aggressive in these moments. Yeah, like leaders have to be the visionaries. We have to really role model that dream that I have to role model the kind of work environment I wish I had, even if I don't have it.

SPEAKER_01 47:23

Yeah, be be that, right? Live, live that, yes, so that you can when when it does happen for you, you're ready. You can make the the transition uh relatively easy. So that that is great. It's just been a pleasure talking to you. Um, I don't want to wrap this up, but we're we're getting ready to wrap up. I have one last question for you. And what practices help you stay aligned with your values when external pressure is loud?

SPEAKER_00 47:57

Oh, I love this because I see a lot of suffering happen um professionally and personally, because people are just misaligned with their values. They're really, you know, I value transparency. And maybe I work in an environment that that thrives off of secrecy, that thrives off of vague policies, that thrives off of things that are not transparent. So, how can I find peace in that situation? So, what I will do, for example, is I know my values very clearly. If you don't know them, there are lots of tools online that I personally I've been trained in motivational interviewing. It's a clinical style that you use to talk with people that's very respectful. And there's an exercise that was created by those clinicians, and it's called the values card sort. And I just Google that and I find little activities online and I'll teach the students and I'll use it with clients. And it helps you really go from 150 values down to like, no, what are your top five? Because these are the ones that if you're out of alignment with the top five, you're going to feel resentful, depressed, anxious, and you're really not going to know why, but it's because it's your operating system, what guides you to fulfillment and and really peace is out of alignment with what's going on externally. And the only control you have is to change what's going on with you internally. So when we go back to this vision of, okay, McLean has transparency in her top five, but she works for an institution, and this isn't necessarily true, but she works for an institution that is that thrives off of secrecy and being vague. That bothers her every day, all day. What can she do to control it? Well, I can start being transparent. I can say, hey, everybody, here's my process, here's how I work best, and I'm going to enforce boundaries for how I work best. Right? If there's a vague policy, I'm going to ask for clarity. I'm going to have that difficult conversation and I'm going to call my boss and ask for clarification on the vague policy. And then I'm going to teach others what that vague policy is really saying so that they feel empowered. Like I do all of these workarounds if there is something that is out of alignment, because I'm working towards a life where my top five are in alignment in my work and personally. But there will always be external things that are at odds with those. So it's a really good exercise to learn the skill. How do I get in alignment with my values when I can't change what's going on externally? I mean, that's just gold, as you know, as a coach. Like if we can help people figure that out, you can really navigate almost any situation, you know? And you don't have to stay stuck in the situation, but you've got to get through that day. You can't just quit that day. Right. So it's really useful. I really encourage people to know their top five values. And then you'll start noticing, like, oh, that's why it's bothering me. Is I highly value communication, and this is really an effective communication that we're doing right now.

SPEAKER_01 51:19

It's it's you know, so at least, yeah, at least know what the values are so that you can you can set boundaries around them too.

SPEAKER_00 51:28

Yeah, so many people don't know. Yeah. I always do um a values exercise in our coaching. I usually do it around the second session, and then we kind of build what your goals have to be aligned with your values. Sure. How are your actions in line with your values? And it's such a good anchor. So I love I love that question, and I can certainly provide a resource um for like that values card sort. Sure.

SPEAKER_01 51:56

Okay, then I was gonna ask you if you could share that, and then I can just share the link so that our viewers can access that or the the listeners as well. All right. So we are wrapping up in what do you hope your journey teaches others about trusting themselves?

SPEAKER_00 52:17

Yes. So I hope um that my journey teaches, and look, the book is out of hand. This is the deep dive, people. The savage self-care is really like how I came to a reckoning about I wasn't really trusting myself, and I was expecting my kids to trust me, my work to trust me, all this stuff. So, anyway, what I'm hoping people can understand is you have to go through the muck before you get to the other side. You have to be radically honest with yourself. In what ways are you not trusting yourself? Every time we abandon our own knowing, our intuition, we know what's right for us. We know that we value that transparency, but we're in a relationship where we're not getting it. You are abandoning yourself. But there's always a chance to rebuild your self-trust. Because again, I can't control that other person. I can't make him or her, you know, make me feel better about not trusting myself. Right. So it's it's honesty and it is really committing to building trust with yourself. And I really think that if people flipped that paradigm and we started focusing primarily on building trust with ourselves instead of trying to please others and do for others, then we please others and do for others in a much more aligned way. The self-trust has to be the starting point. That's what I'm hoping people will take away from.

SPEAKER_01 53:51

And how, how, what's a good way for people to at least start building that? Like what's a good starting place? Because some people may be unfamiliar with how that would work.

SPEAKER_00 54:04

Yeah, what I teach people when I always get this question when I when I talk, and I say start with something small. Like, what's something that you want to achieve? If it is, if it is exercise, a lot of people are always talking about diet and exercise. So I use this as an example. If it is exercise, pick something very small that you can achieve. I'm going to, my big goal is I really need to become fit. I need to be exercising all the time. I need to exercise five days a week. Start small. Pick, like, I'm gonna walk five minutes a day, and I'm gonna do it um on the stairs at work on my break. And then you set the teeny tiny goal and then you do the goal. And then you're like, hey, I kept my word. So do it again. Seven minutes next time. Hey, I kept my word. But it really is picking a tangible action you can take and doing it, saying you're gonna do it and keeping your word to yourself, but really start small. The biggest mistake I see people make is I'm gonna, I'm gonna work out five times a week this this year. And external things are going to get in the way. So also self-trust is built in those moments when you do something that you said you were gonna do that you don't want to do. The exercise is a great idea. I said I was gonna walk five minutes on the stairs, um, but I'm just gonna respond to one more email. And then your five minutes are gone, right? It's so it's it's very much like doing what you say you're going to do builds self-trust.

SPEAKER_01 55:48

Yeah. All right. Well, thank you so much. We have been talking with Dr. McLean Sampson, and our topic has been continued growth, reflection, and self-care. You've been listening to the Growing Up, the Age of Your Emotions podcast. I'm Dr. Melanie and Powers, and stay tuned for our episode coming up next week. Thank you, McLean, so much for joining us today.

SPEAKER_00 56:16

It was a pleasure. Thank you.