The Balanced Leader Podcast

Ubuntu: Cultivating Compassion and Connection with Alfred Chidembo

• Rob Hills • Season 2 • Episode 35

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In this week’s episode, I sit down with Alfred Chidembo to explore the transformative power of Ubuntu—an ancient African philosophy that emphasizes our interconnectedness and collective humanity. Alfred shares his extraordinary journey from a small Zimbabwean village to becoming a thought leader on compassionate leadership in Australia. His powerful insights on leading with empathy, gratitude, and genuine human connection offer a refreshing alternative to the individualistic leadership models that often dominate our workplaces.

What I love about this conversation is how Alfred translates the profound wisdom of Ubuntu into practical leadership strategies anyone can implement. From his spreadsheet method of intentional team connection to stories of sports teams achieving championship success through Ubuntu principles, Alfred demonstrates that putting people first isn't just "touchy-feely stuff"—it's essential for creating high-performing teams where people truly thrive. If you're looking to create a more compassionate, connected workplace culture while still achieving outstanding results, this episode is a must-listen.


Connect with Alfred: https://www.linkedin.com/in/alfred-chidembo/

For the full show notes and transcript, click here.

Find out more about Rob Hills: www.robhills.com.au
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Rob Hills Facebook Page: https://www.facebook.com/iamrobhills
Rob Hills LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/rob-hills/

Rob: [00:00:08] Welcome to The Balanced Leader Podcast, where we tackle the ultimate challenge for leaders: achieving peak performance without sacrificing your wellbeing. If you're ready to lead with clarity, energy, and impact—without burning out—then you're in the right place. I'm Rob Hills, your leadership and wellbeing coach, and in each episode, I'll give you the insights, tools and strategies that will enable you to thrive.

Today I'm joined by Alfred Chidembo, a leadership coach, professional speaker, and facilitator who brings the powerful African philosophy of Ubuntu to workplaces and teams. Alfred's remarkable journey has taken him from a small village in Zimbabwe to becoming an influential voice on compassionate leadership across Australia. We'll explore how Ubuntu—the belief that 'I am because you are'—can transform workplace culture, foster belonging, and help leaders balance high performance with genuine wellbeing. So let's dive into today’s episode with Alfred Chidembo. 

Rob: [00:01:13] Welcome, Alfred to the Balance Leader Podcast. Thank you so much for joining me today. 

Alfred: Oh, thank you so much, Rob, for having me on your podcast. 

Rob: My pleasure, mate. I'm, I'm really excited to have you on the show today, Alfred, particularly because we're gonna be talking about a subject that I don't know much about, which is Ubuntu.

But before we're gonna jump into that, can you share a bit about your journey, uh, where you've come from, what led you to Canberra and the work you do today? 

Alfred: Oh, so where, where do I start? Rob? I, I was in the second largest city in.

And after that, uh, when I was six, seven years old, I moved to the city. I went to school in the city, um, one of the cities in the south, south, uh, southern part of Zimbabwe, and then I went to high school. Had the best years of my life in high school that I enjoyed myself there. Um, then I went to Namibia as a 19-year-old to study.

Did my first degree in Namibia. [00:02:13] What was supposed to be a seven day trip. Became a seven year stay. 

Rob: Oh, wow. 

Alfred: then, uh, I taught at two schools in Namibia in primary school all the way up to high school. Probably one of the best jobs I've ever had in that at that time was. Working as a grade five mathematics teacher.

And then I packed my bags and went to South Africa, went across the border to South Africa to do an honors degree in chemistry. And then after that I did a master's degree. Then I got a scholarship, uh, Rob to come to the University of Wollongong to do my PhD, and worked in the startup space for three years while I, and then I.

Leaders helping them to build, you know, the culture that they want. A culture that is inclusive, a culture where people feel valued, they have a sense of [00:03:13] belonging and they get to thrive. 

Rob: What an amazing journey. Uh, your career seems to have spanned a lot of different fields from, uh, maths teacher to start up to public service.

Can you tell us about your experience and how it shaped your perspective on leadership? 

Alfred: Well, I always tell people that, you know what? Leadership happened upon me. Leadership happened on me. And in the sense that, uh, when I had finished my PhD, when I finished my PhD, I started a charity. And because I, I was the founder, I had to run this thing right, and we started collecting books, books that were distant for landfill, sending them over to Zimbabwe to start libraries, to build libraries for disadvantaged kids.

Then I stepped into this space where I had to lead, where I had to bring in volunteers because I couldn't do it on my own. And there I discovered my own leadership style. I worked with so many people and you know how right. People are, you're competing [00:04:13] with people's time, with their families and their jobs and everything else.

So you really have to be resilient in that space. You have to give so much and be really, you know, empathetic to understand where people are coming from and give them the grace that that, that they need so that they can do the work that they're supposed to do. So this is where I really developed my leadership style, being empathetic, being compassionate, and realizing that.

Rob: So it sounds like it's almost an organic process for you. You kind of learned on the job, if you will. Does that sound right? 

Yeah, it, it, it, it sounds, uh, just about right, but I, I, I wanna go back to something that also happened in my life. When I was, when I was in Namibia, I was, I played rugby in Namibia.

Probably some of the best rugby I've ever played in my life. But the team that I played for was, was really struggling at that time because it was a team of youngsters. We were all just over 21 or under 21, and my coach gave me a role that, that I, that I really [00:05:13] enjoyed, that I thought I enjoyed on the rugby field.

So I was asked to inspire the team before we ran onto the pitch. 

And then I would also be asked to give a breakdown of the game just afterwards. So that gave me an opportunity to really, to look at the game from a very different perspective. Not just to go in as a player, but also as a leader. You know, looking at what other people are doing, inspiring them while you're, you know, you're, you're actually in the game.

So it's kind of just learning on the go, but also being able to come back and give them feedback, constructive feedback, and build up on the, on the next game. So I, I, I really enjoyed that. 

Rob: Mm-hmm. And you are an inspiring speaker. I've heard you speak before. Do you draw on the experiences of your childhood and your, you know, earlier years when you deliver presentations or, or speeches?

Alfred: Yeah, that's exactly what I do, Rob, because I look back at my childhood and I realize that it was a really a rich childhood. Uh, you imagine growing up from growing up in a little village in, in Zimbabwe where there's no running [00:06:13] water, no electricity. When I look back at that journey, it inspires me as well, and I, I want to share that with other people so that I can share my experiences with them, because there were a lot of lessons that I learned along the way.


Uh, for, for instance, just walking to school, you know, barefoot as a 6-year-old, you would think that, you know, we, we were struggling as little kids, but we probably some of the happiest kids you could find around. Mm. We found joy in those moments. We, we enjoyed the little things, the, the, the beauty of the nature around us.

And then we got to play with our friends. And, and those are some of the experiences that I, I would love to share with other people to realize that in a world where we seem to have everything, you can find joy in the little things. Mm-hmm. Then in my own move, my own, um, you know, kind of, uh, transitioning from, from, from the village to the city, the opportunities that opened up for me.

Where were just mind blowing. Right? And it was probably some of the simplest things that we can think about. Just like walking into a library, getting an opportunity to [00:07:13] borrow a book from the library and, and reading that for me was just amazing, right? So I tried to find stories in all the things that I, I, I go through, or also, you know, the places where I go, the conversations I have with people, because I think this, that's the biggest research field you can ever tap into.

Rob: How much does gratitude play a part in your life? In your leadership, absolutely. But also in your life? 

Yeah. In my culture we have a saying say, which says, being ungrateful is worse than witchcraft. So you, so are, you just lead with that. You just lead with gratitude and it all, it's all about intentionally.

Stopping or causing to look back on your journey and to acknowledge those who have helped you, those who have come along the way and, and lifted you up when you couldn't do that for yourself. Those who saw the vision and the dream for you when you couldn't see it for yourself, but it takes that intentional, you know, pause.

Reflect [00:08:13] what other people have done and just naturally, you know, going back to them and saying, Hey, thank you for what you did for me. I really appreciate this. So that's what I've done. I dunno where that came from, but I think it's also comes from the upbringing. I remember growing up in the village with, with my mom, she used to teach us all these things to say, Hey.

Go back and say thank you. You need to be grateful for some of these things that come your way because had it not been for other people, you know, you wouldn't be where you are. And, and that's a, that's a testament to my own life, Rob, in the sense that I went to study in Namibia all because of my sister who had a vision for me.

And I, I thought it was going to be seven trip, it became a seven year stay. And I look back and I realize that if my sister had not convinced me on that trip, her. I wouldn't have ended up in Namibia. I wouldn't have got to play the best rugby of my life in Namibia. I wouldn't have made the friends that I made in Namibia.

But while I was studying in Namibia, my siblings stepped up as well. You, you, you know what, my mom [00:09:13] sold our home, Rob. 

Rob: Wow. 

Alfred: My mom sold our home, a big four bedroom house, comfortable, uh, place that we lived in so that I could go to university. Talk about unconditional generosity. Yeah. And it'll be really, really sad if I don't pause and reflect and look back and say, thank you to someone who's done something like that for me.

And this is where the Ubuntu, uh, philosophy comes in. It's, it's within you. It's here, it's, it stays here. And it compels you to say thank you. It compels you to to be, to be grateful. For the little things, even the big things. 

Rob: Mm-hmm. And it's, it's interesting there. I imagine some people don't, or haven't heard the term Ubuntu before. So can you tell us a little bit about it? What it means and what it means to you? 

Alfred: Yes. The, the ancient African philosophy of Ubuntu says, I am because you are, you are because I am. That's literally just scratching on the surface, Rob, because it's a deep [00:10:13] philosophy. Ubuntu is all about compassion. It's all about empathy, and this is how we try.

But in our culture, it's not just, we don't use, it's not just language that we use to describe it. It's the way that we live our lives. It's the way that we show gratitude. It's the way that we show generosity. It's the way that we lead with empathy, the way that we show compassion to those who are struggling.

It's the way that we celebrate wins together as a community, as a collective, is the way we resolve conflict. It shows up in everything. And you, there's no written contract. It's an unwritten contract that even when you're meeting somebody, when you, when you're greeting somebody, you, you know, it's, uh, it, it's that simple, right?

For, for us, because it's, we, we grew up with the language. So when I'm greeting you, Rob, uh, and I meet you on a path, uh, I, I ask you what say it's like, you know, oh, [00:11:13] WAMU say, how did you wake up this morning? You'll respond and say, well, I woke up. Well, only if you woke up. Well, it's never, Hey, hi. How are you?

How are you doing? Now, it's only if you woke up. Well, only if you ate. How are you doing? How much have you eaten today? And say a little bit or a lot and say, I want eaten a little bit. Only if you have eaten as well. So it's always looking out for the next person in everything, any, any interaction that we have with people.

The best intentions we're look, shifting the focus from me to us. 

So it shows up in the language. When you are greeting somebody in the morning, when you're greeting somebody in the afternoon, when you meet somebody in a path, when you meet a stranger on a path, you ask them, how are you doing? I say, very well, thanks.

How are you doing? Right? And we stop there. This is what we do in, in, in, in the Western world. But we go a step further with you say, how are you doing? They say, I'm well only if you are well. So you are always tapping into, uh, that person's world, [00:12:13] getting a glimpse into where they are, are they well, and if they're not well, you sit with them, you compelled with to what they're going through.

So you always giving, and, and they also to do exactly the same thing. 

Rob: That's really interesting. Um, and it sounds like it's, uh, it's obviously a part of, of the culture. How do you find it then coming to Australia and talking about Ubuntu and trying to embed it into a leadership practice or even just a way of life.


'cause we aren't the same. In, in, and, and I'll use Australia as an example, our culture's a little bit different. So how do you go talking about this and, and embedding it in the things you do? 


Yeah. What I've noticed, Rob, is that we are similar in so many ways, right? You see, we have the are okay day. So what we are doing there is we're intentionally going out and asking people within our spaces or circle of influence and say, are you okay?


Right. That that's, [00:13:13] that's, that's part of, you know, showing focus.


And that's, that's, that's what is all about. Being curious about the next person really getting a good understanding, just a, into


looking for this.


We are looking for a places where we belong, places where we are not judged, you know, or, uh, marginalized. We for the same thing, and Ubuntu naturally takes care of belonging, being valued. You know, uh, empathy, compassion, we are all looking for, for, for these things. And it's actually, especially at this time, Rob, where we are post covid, where, uh, people's wellbeing has really been affected by the way we live our lives.


Now. It's, it's only [00:14:13] natural that we should be stepping up and asking people how they're doing, giving more ourselves. So when iun in Iun.


People resonate with that because they're looking for it. Mm. Everyone is looking for that. We all wanna belong. We all wanna be valued. 


Rob: Yeah. I love that. Have you noticed a difference in groups that you work with in the workplace after you have a, a, a talk or do a leadership workshop on, or, or that features or Ubuntu.


How things change. Have you noticed any differences in the workplace with those groups? 


Oh, yes. I've, I've noticed some changes there, but it, it takes a while. I've noticed that it actually takes a while. Mm, okay. It actually takes a while for, it's, it's like we, we've shifted, you know, to to one extreme and wanna come back again.


Mm. Where we've become so individualistic and we need just need to be reminded that, hey. You know what? We're a team and this is what it means to be part of a team. 


Alfred: Yeah. 


Uh, we're a collective, we're a community. This is what it means to be part of a community. [00:15:13] It means we take care of each other. It means we're looking out for each other, and we just need those constant reminders and some of those behavioral matches.


Uh, you know, especially when you apply them within teams, within groups in planning.


We are working in, in, in dispersed teams where a new hire can come in and, and work with you for like in a year or two, and you may never get to meet them in person. But when you're intentional about connecting, it means that you're reaching out and getting to understand or discover more about them.


You're curious, and over time you start to see that teams become a little bit more curious. They start to embed this language in their day-to-day activities. They become stronger, they become more connected. And I've seen this happening in so many teams where they now look back and say, Hey, thank you so much for just nudging us just a little bit.


And now we realize the value of these things that you're [00:16:13] talking about. Now I don't feel so lost anymore. Even when I'm coaching people and they say, Hey, you know what, now you've made me realize that, uh, I, I don't, I don't live in a vacuum. I need to be looking outwards. I need to be looking out for the people around me, for my own teams.


I need to be looking out for those individuals. And sometimes all it takes is a five minute conversation. 


Rob: Yeah, absolutely. Leaders often feel pressure to perform at, at high levels, particularly in the workplace. There's always that, you know, pressure from management or, or whatever. You know, you've gotta keep performing.


Um, output, output, whatever it is. But they've also gotta support their teams. So how can Ubuntu help leaders balance that high performance with wellbeing as well? 


Yeah, I like that, Rob, because I think this is where I, I hear a lot of leaders say, I don't have time for this touchy feely stuff. Yes, that's what they call it.


I don't have time for all these soft skills, all these things that you're talking about. I don't have time for empathy and compassion in the workplace. Do we even, we don't even talk about love in the [00:17:13] workplace, right? 


Alfred: Mm-hmm. 


We only talk about love when you say, I love my work, not the people that I work with, because sometimes we come across as inappropriate, but hey, this is where I'm going with this.


Right? To when you love people. When you love people rob you, it means you're giving off yourself. 


Alfred: Mm. 


As a leader, that's, that's what we're doing because we have a responsibility to develop the next group of leaders that that's one of the biggest jobs that we need to do to grow leaders. As leaders. We are supposed to be doing that, but it's very difficult.


You cannot give what you don't have. And for you to teach and for you to grow and to nurture and to coach, you need to have a certain love for people. You need to have a certain level of compassion, empathy, and really plotting somebody's success behind their backs. That's because you're constantly thinking about that.


Now, when, when I always challenge leaders and I say, Hey, you know what, when you leave home, you leave your home a [00:18:13] place where everyone looks at you. You are a hero in your, in your household. Your kids are looking at you and, oh, that guy, he's the best dad in the world. That guy is so caring. That guy has got so much love, he's so compassionate.


Your wife is looking at, oh, that guy phenomenal. And you, the moment you leave that, that household, you walk into your workplace, what happens to those values, those things that you're well known for? Do we leave them at the, at the entrance of our workplaces and say, I'm going to stop being compassionate.


Do we stop valuing other people's opinions just because we are now at work? I think this is the work that leaders need to do to tap into those values early on, on their leadership journey. Tap into those values, understand the things that get us teary-eyed and that inspire us, and we carry those into the workplaces, our workplaces where we can inspire people, workplace, where we can motivate people, where we are always looking and we're not just, we're not quick to judge.


We're being curious. And that [00:19:13] doesn't take much time, Rob. It could just be 15 minutes of your day where you're intentionally dialing in. The floor onto the ground coming from the balcony onto the dance floor, really checking in on your people because these are the people that you spend most of your time with almost eight hours of your day.


Alfred: Yeah. 


So, so it means if you park your values at your doorstep when you leave, you are a totally different person at work. There, there's a disconnect there, isn't it? 


Alfred: Yeah. 


So, so that's what I always say to, to leaders. Tap into those values and, and just lead with those values. And sometimes people find that very uncomfortable because they've described their places of work as just work.


I, these work self, home, self. I struggle with that, with that concept because, uh, at at home I'm well known for being this loving and caring person and patient. Work. All of a sudden I'm a toxic manager who's, who cast a very terrible shadow here, wherever I go. [00:20:13] 


Rob: I can't, I can't imagine that Alfred, I couldn't imagine you casting a shadow wherever you go.


Um, it's interesting though, in all my years of leadership development, I've never, I don't think I've really talked about love in the workplace. And again, this is probably a cultural thing. Um, also considering the context. So I've, I've been in the military. Um, I was working in law enforcement. But love never really come up.


Why do you think we are not talking about it as much as we should be? 


Rob, love is scary. Love love is risky. 


Alfred: Mm-hmm. 


And, and we don't, we don't wanna deal with stuff like that. And I've noticed a lot of managers, even things like compassion and vulnerability, they don't deal uncomfortable safely say. You look at yourself and you say, I love people.


And you're honest with yourself, the way you interact with people, Rob, right from, from the [00:21:13] get go, the way you're dealing with that difficult employee, that difficult teammate that you have on your team, the way you deal with your, your high performer, your, uh, your most amazing, you know, um, employee, it changes.


Just the moment you tap into that, that thing that we call love and you say, I wanna lead with love. And you may not need to say to to everyone else because some people really feel very uncomfortable with that, but it, it shows up in different ways. 


Alfred: Yeah. 


You may not need to say it, it shows up in the way that you interact with people, the way you take time to understand people.


You, I, I've noticed something that's really interesting, Rob, that uh, you can have new hire. We never, as leaders, we never take time to understand what energizes them, what gets them really going, what inspires them. We never ask these questions. We say, Hey, this person is coming to our team. This is the [00:22:13] job that they need to do.


Go do what you need to do. But we never really tap into those. We never have the deeper conversations where they're saying, Hey, I wanna, are those things energize you? Then it means when I notice that your energy levels have dropped to 20%, we can have a conversation about that because we expect them to perform all the time.


Right? 


Rob: Yeah. 


Just like you have somebody on your team who's who's a a mom, and they just recently had a baby, you expect them to walk into the office every day, give a hundred percent, but they're probably not even sleeping at night because they've got a newborn. Do we take time to ask, Hey, how are you going?


And I know you have a newborn, uh, you know, things could be happening in your space. How are you doing today? You know, what level are you operating on? If they say 20%, do you give them grace or do you say, Hey, I need a hundred percent from you. Shouldn't we lead with love and say, Hey, I 20% for today? [00:23:13] That's great.


Hopefully tomorrow we go to. 


Rob: And sometimes 20% is the a hundred percent. 20% is all they have to give. Uh, and I think you're right. I think, and I've seen this, uh, over the last 10, 15 years, I, I've seen it getting better in the workplace where people often feel more comfortable to bring their full selves to work their whole selves.


So then they talk about their, uh, life, what's happening outside of work, things that aren't particularly going well. Which is great because then as a manager or a leader, you can gauge where that person is at and you can adjust accordingly. But if you don't know, it's difficult to do. So I think it's really important that leaders are having these conversations, uh, about this in the workplace.


Yeah, and, and, and I, I, I totally agree, and, and where it becomes really challenging is that we, we associate, remember, we say these are the touchy. We associate all these things with weakness. Mm. But, but it's actually not [00:24:13] weakness. This is where you actually draw your strength. This is where, a position where you can begin to empower people.


This is a position where you begin to, to, to build rapport with people. And you can, you can share a vision with them and take them on a journey when you connect, when you take time to connect at that level. But a lot of people say, oh, you know what? You don't have time for that. 


Rob: Yeah. That's sad, isn't it?


It's interesting. And particularly for people who are listening to us talking about Ubuntu today, who, who want to see more of this in their workplaces. What are some of practical steps they can take to try and implement some of the philosophy around Ubuntu in their teens? 


Yeah. I can only share with you some of the things that I do in the workplace, Robin.


Some of the things that I've also seen other people do, and it, it all starts with, again, being intentional. The moment you're walking into the office, you are casting as a leader, you have a leadership shadow that you cast. Do people want to sit underneath that shadow or do they run away from it? [00:25:13] How long is that shadow?


How, how, how, how small is it? And, and this is something that you can control as a leader, right? 


Alfred: Yeah. 


You can walk into the office and not greet anyone. 


Alfred: Mm. 


And everyone is curring around just going behind their desks because they wanna avoid you. 


Alfred: Yeah. 


It, it all depends on you because you that shadow. But if you, if you bringing that energy into the work where people


difference. So what I've seen work in, in my space is that I go into the office, I spend 15 minutes connecting with people. So I have a spreadsheet with everyone in my team, and I just connect. I just pick at random and they say, Hey, I'm gonna talk to this person. If they're green, I'll just say, hi, good morning with an emoji, right?


Alfred: Yep. 


Or if they're green and they're willing to talk and say, Hey, I just have two minutes thought. I would just call and say, hi, hope you're doing well. How are things happening in your space? If somebody is, is, is in WA where they [00:26:13] recently had a cyclone, Hey, call them up. Find out how are you guys doing?


Has it affected you as well? How are you coping? Is it, is there anything that we can do from our end to support you at this time? And it, that conversation doesn't take 10 minutes. So it's intentionally setting aside time to connect with people. And that could be through your chats, uh, through the calls.


Scheduling those one-on-ones. Most leaders say, I don't have time for a one-on-one. And this is the time, just 30 minutes, 30 minutes to to connect with somebody and say, tell me what's happening in your space. Tell me what are some of the things that you would wanna do? Where would you want to be? And how best can I help you?


And I've seen that work quite well. And I've worked with leaders who do, uh, similar things as well. They take time on a Friday afternoon, they just walk on the floor. Greeting, talking to people, then all of you, not that leader who stays in the office or on the floor, the building, the leader.[00:27:13] 


Really interacting with people, because sometimes even on that balcony, it can be very lonely. 


Alfred: Hmm. 


And people are just looking at you and they're thinking, you did this mysterious figure. But when you come down onto the dance floor, you see the smiles, you hear the pains, the struggles that people deal with, then you begin to build psychological safety in those spaces.


Rob: So I'm hearing some themes coming through as you're talking. So, uh, empathy, compassion, connection. That sounds like what Ubuntu philosophy sort of tries to bring into the workplace, if you like, to try and, uh, infuse those values that we don't leave at the door that we bring in with us. And we try and somehow, and I I love that you use a spreadsheet for this.


This is fantastic because, you know, as a very practical person, I'm like, oh, I could start a spreadsheet. That's great. Uh, but that's, that's what you're trying to achieve. You're trying to achieve those values and you're trying to connect with people. And really, it's not just about them as a person and the workplace.


It's about them as a person [00:28:13] overall. 


Yeah. Yeah. That, that's exactly what it is. Rob, you, you touched on something really. I.


I'm a human being because you're a human being. I imagine if all of us were to walk around in places where no one acknowledges who we are or no one sees us, can you say that you're a gentleman? If there are no other people around you, to point it out to you and say your behaviors and everything that you say, the way you speak, the way you do things, you know this.


You are a true gentleman. You look at yourself and say, just because I do all these things, I'm a gentleman. Because, because you don't have a, you know, frame of reference, isn't it? You have a, don't have a point of reference. It's only when you have other people where you can, where you can actually test that humanity, where you can start talking about empathy.


Empathy is not something yourself. It's when you show. You know, generosity is, is, doesn't mean anything if you are just you [00:29:13] as an individual. It's, it, it, it's a transaction with somebody. So I am only a human being when you are a human being. I am only generous when I'm in your space. And it all starts with the acknowledgement.


There, there's a, there's a language to it there, there's there behaviors to.


Do those, those things. You, you wake up in the morning, you ask somebody how they're doing and you respond. I woke up. Well, only if you woke up well as well. So that's just how you greet people. And we never really, sometimes, you know, we never really pause to reflect on what that means on a, on a bigger scale because you just grew up with it.


Right. But that's what it is. It means you carry that with you in the morning, in the how. How you respond to somebody who's just lost, uh, you know, a beloved one. What, what do you do in that, in that instance, in our culture, we, we are just compelled if, if a neighbor [00:30:13] loses a, a loved one, we don't just sit in our household, we go out and we spend time with them, we grieve with them because we say, your pain is my pain when their child, you know, um, you know, graduates from school.


Guess what we do, and they have a party. We come out of our households. We're gonna celebrate with them. We say, your success is my success because we are a community, because we are one, we are connected, and we are not connected just because we, we go to the same church, we go to the same workplace. We are connected just because we're human beings in the same space.


Acknowledging that we all go through pains. We all go through joyful moments. We all go through times when we are just stuck where we we, our wellbeing is not so good and we just need to be looking out for all those things to say, Hey, I will show up for you because you're in this space and I expect you to do exactly the same thing for me.


Rob: Mm. Sounds [00:31:13] amazing. Have you seen any standout examples of leaders. In organizations who successfully embody this, this philosophy or this style of Ubuntu and, and what is it that we can learn from 'em? What is it that we can take away and go, oh, I could do that more in my workplace? I. 


Yeah, I, I've seen some examples, uh, in the workplace, on the sports field.


Um, the Queensland maroons, they adopted, uh, the Ubuntu philosophy a couple of years back. Right. Uh, and guess what? They want the state of origin. Mm. And you, you wonder why. Right? Because this is where they got to. Point where they started playing for each other. They realized that they needed to play for each other, they needed to look out for each other as a collective so that they could achieve their goal.


And this is, you can tie this to Patrick Len's, five dysfunctions of a team, which can flip, you know, for high performing teams and say, we hold each other accountable. We are vulnerable, and we committed to making decisions quickly. And, and, and so.[00:32:13] 


Similar things in their workplaces where they've created great cultures. I, I've seen this happening, uh, with some people that I worked with where you had a flat structure. You, you, you felt safe to raise your concerns. They created this environment, which was just safe, allowing people to hear their views, even, even the ideas, no matter how, how silly they sounded.


But there was always somebody who was there to listen. And be able to, to guide and to, to give advice. And I've seen that happening. And those people, what I've noticed with all these people is that they put people first. They are focusing on other people instead of themselves first. It's not to say you neglect your own, your own wellbeing.


Now it's, it's you serving, you're serving other people because when you serve, you feel good, it feels great, and then you be, uh, you know, part. So I've seen leaders who do that and leaders who walk on the floor [00:33:13] every day checking, checking upon people's wellbeing. 


Rob: Yeah. I really love your point there about seeing leadership as a service being, you know, it is your, you are giving back your, you are doing something and then putting others first.


And I think, again, in our workplace culture, sometimes we focus more on competition than we do on collaboration. So it's good from a leadership perspective if leaders can take a step back and just go, you know what? I need to put the team first. We need to put others first. And if everyone succeeds, then I succeed.


And I think what a great way to, what a great way to lead. 


Yeah. When I, when when you succeed, I succeed. Your success. My success. It's, it's all these things around you, Rob, which I think, you know, when you lead with that, you empower people. Now, some leaders would say, you know what? I have my KPIs. We need to do this.


Imagine if you have one person out of 10, in a team of 10, you have one person who's just not engaged. What happens? It means you only have 90% of your team who are [00:34:13] actually doing the work, but it also affects other people. So you could come down to about 80% or maybe 70%, but if you were to have a conversation with that person and it inspire them, guess what?


They'll also inspire the people. And it's not to say that we're neglecting the work because that's what people say, I'm neglecting the work. This is the work. This is the work because when you inspire people, they'll give 120% without even thinking about it. Then you start to hit your KPIs, right? You, once you, those people feel valued, they will give you so much more.


They want to come to work, they look forward to Mondays, you know, instead of them, you know, developing a narrative where they say, oh, thank God it's Friday. You know, they say, Hey. We're looking forward to going back to work because you've created an environment where they can thrive. They can give so much more, and they're allowed to explore, to be innovative, to bring new ideas into that space.


They just flourish, right? 


Alfred: Yeah. 


But if I just come in and say, Hey, we need to do the work. You [00:35:13] are not doing the work, and I start micromanaging people. I'm taking the, I'm taking away, and they start ling theirs. What? And before you know it, productivity just begins to, 


Rob: yeah. And I've seen that so many times in the workplace where there's a toxic culture and the leader's response is to just drive harder, push harder, focus on KPIs, focus on tasks, but they don't get the results.


And they wonder why if they just applied a little bit more compassion, a little bit more empathy, a little bit more. People skills, then people respond to that. People will give you much more discretionary effort when you, when they feel like a part of a team, when they feel inspired to do so than if you try and ride them into the ground.


Yep, yep. That, that is so true. Boston Celtics from, uh, uh, as a 2018, uh, they, they had, they adopted a wound [00:36:13] philosophy as well, and they, they won the championship that year. Again, this is a really good, uh, story so that we can pick those parallels between what they did and what one can do in their teams.


Even at work, you always have new hires coming in. You always have these people who say, I've been here for 20 years or 25 years. I know what we are doing. And guess what? The moment you hear that, you know that there's no way we're going to be innovating here because these people are. And that's exactly what the Boston Celtics were dealing with.


They brought in the three big guns. These guys who had, who had won championships in other teams, and they're coming in with big egos, right? But when they adopted, we going into philosophy, they learned that I need to put my, I need to put the team first before you know, my, my own ego. I need to put my ego aside if I can learn to play with these guys here.


And it doesn't mean that. Just understanding the environment that they're in and saying, this is what the [00:37:13] team needs and sacrificing itself for the team, for the community, for your, uh, department or division or whatever. So that's exactly what they did. Once they got that concept once, once they understood that Ubuntu is about, you know, shifting the focus from me to us as a collective, we play for each other.


Even when things are not going so well, we look out for each other. Even when we're winning, we celebrate together.


Where you realize that other people bring in their own egos, other people bring in their own different experiences from wherever they're coming from. But instead of, you know, elevating those egos, you're saying, how do we tap into this energy and bring it together for the benefit of the team, for the benefit of the collective?


Rob: And I think that's such a great reminder and a great takeaway for people is that if we put the team first, and if the team wins, then we win. So I love that. Alfred, [00:38:13] what's one question I didn't ask today that maybe you'd hoped I would have, and if I did ask it, how would you have responded? 


Oh, Rob, now you've put me on the spot there.


I'm thinking,


ah, there's so much that I, I, I want to share with people around Ubuntu. You know, the, the philosophy, how to bring it to life and how, uh, we need to change our own perspective. There's one thing that I wanted to talk about, uh, especially when it comes to values that, um, the values that I exhibit when I'm at home should be exactly the same values that I exhibit at work.


I think I touched on that, but it's not just putting it down on paper and saying, this is what we're going to do, or having the values written up on a wall for. It's actually living out those values wherever we go. So one of the things that I've started doing, because I, I love connecting with people. I get energy from people.


I've started this thing that I call [00:39:13] Connect Fridays because I don't work on Fridays, so I just meet up with people and have chats. If it means we're sitting by the park bench, we sit there and we just talk. There's no agenda to it. They, you know, we're not looking to get any amazing outcomes out of those meetings.


No. We're just saying, Hey, let's just sit down and have a chat. If it means we are at a coffee shop, we just sit down and we just talk, whatever comes to mind, we, we have a discussion around that, and that's all about connecting intentionally, connecting with people. Setting aside time to connect and happen.


So many depending on sports


intentionally. But being curious as well and asking the right questions so that you get to know people better. 


Rob: Thank you so much, Alfred. This has been a fantastic conversation and such an interesting topic. I hope people will look further into Ubuntu and even start thinking [00:40:13] about how they might apply it in their own workplaces.


If people want to connect more with you and find out more about what you're doing, how can they do that? 


Yeah, I do have my website, uh, www.alfredchi.com. Uh, you can just go onto my website. You'll see there's the services that I offer there as a professional speaker, a facilitator and leadership coach. Uh, there's also a contact me pay page day, so you can just button my name.


You can just. Click on that button and just reach out or you can just look me up on LinkedIn. I'm very active on LinkedIn and yeah, we can, we can connect. 


Rob: That's amazing. I'll put the links in the show notes so people can find them, uh, easily enough. Thanks again, Alfred. Really appreciate it. 


Alright, thank you so much Rob.