The Importance of Mission, Vision, and Value Statements with Ashlee Sang

Ever feel like your brand messaging is just a jumble of nice-sounding words that don't actually mean anything? You're not alone, and that's exactly why this brand messaging series is so important for creatives and small business owners. In this episode, Ashlee Sang and I tackle the often-overwhelming task of creating authentic mission, vision, and value statements that actually guide your business decisions—not just collect dust on your website's about page.

We break down Ashlee's three-phase framework for establishing, defining, and applying your values in ways that resonate with both you and your audience. You'll learn practical strategies for uncovering your true brand values, ways to test if they're actually working, and how to evolve them naturally as your business grows.

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EPISODE 139.

Read the show notes and view the full transcript here: https://erinollila.com/mission-vision-and-value-statements-ashlee-sang/

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Learn more about our guest expert, Ashlee Sang
Ashlee Sang consults overthinking business owners so they can grow their impact and their revenue. Through Ashlee Sang Consulting and as host of the Purpose & Progress Podcast, she equips entrepreneurs to take confident, meaningful action in alignment with their values. She believes that business can feel and do good when it's rooted in values and propelled by purpose.

Before doing brand messaging strategy and marketing consulting, she worked with a variety of nonprofit organizations, including a human rights education NGO in Senegal and a local branch of Habitat for Humanity. The common thread has been sharing messages that matter. Check out her website and grab her elevator pitch guide while you're at it.

Here's info on your host, Erin Ollila
Erin Ollila believes in the power of words and how a message can inform – and even transform – its intended audience. She graduated from Fairfield University with an M.F.A. in Creative Writing, and went on to co-found Spry, an award-winning online literary journal.

When Erin’s not helping her clients understand their website data or improve their website copy, you can catch her hosting the Talk Copy to Me podcast and guesting on shows such as Profit is a Choice, The Driven Woman Entrepreneur, Go Pitch Yourself, and Counsel Cast.

Stay in touch with Erin Ollila, SEO website copywriter:
• Learn more about Erin’s VIP intensive options if you’d like to learn more about how you can hire her to help you with your marketing efforts

Transcript

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All right, Ashlee. So If you could, just to set the stage for today's conversation, could you give us like a brief definition or like quick explanation on what the mission, vision, and values are?, It's sort of like the zoom in, vision or back again, right? So, audience is obviously who you're showing up for, right? The people on the receiving end. And you can start with that very specific person in mind and build an entire vision and ecosystem around them. Or you can start with that big picture vision of here's what I'm aiming to accomplish through my business. This is why it's so, so, so important to me. This is what I'm working toward. And then figure out, and who's the exact audience that needs to fit in there for me to accomplish this, right? So zoom in, zoom out, doesn't matter, but audience is who you're showing up for. Values are how you're showing up. And that's where I spend the bulk of my time and content and conversations is because that's your operating system. is your gut check. That is your decision making mechanism., how you're showing up is how you are known, how you're connecting with people, that how is so, so, so powerful. And that's your differentiator, right? That's what makes your business different than anyone else's are those values. we have our who, we have our how, our mission is our why. Why you're showing up, why your business even exists, why this is so, so important. And then Vision is that one step further of what you're showing up to create. What is that pie in the sky, that difference you think you can make, , by serving those people, doing it in the way you do it, and, and, and because of the, the reasons that you care about, right? So the who, the how, the why, and the what are that, that pendulum between audience, values, mission, and vision, and back again. What a good start to this episode. And part of me is like, okay, let's just do three minutes. We're done. We covered it. Think about your mission, vision, and values that way.. There's a few things that really stood out to me. I love the idea, especially for people who may be DIYing, that you brought up that you can zoom in or out with your audience. Cause I think that's key. You know, people hear such stinky advice on the internet of like, "Oh, you need to know exactly who this, like one ideal client is and niche down to them," when they're just starting and they've never really worked with anyone, right. Or vice versa. Maybe they do have a honed in client, but B, but that honed in client that they're starting with can like inform the rest of the things that they're making. So I like that. That's how you started. And I think that. The word simple is wrong because it's not a simple things to do, but I think that you simplified the understanding of what those three are. Oh, four, I guess, if we're bringing audience in., so part of the reason I wanted to have like a specific episode on Mission Vision and Values was because , I think that they're so overlooked or forgotten about or guessed at, right? So. I remember, gosh, I don't remember how many years ago it was since I updated my own website, but maybe two or three years ago, I sat down to do this exercise. I really wanted to put my values on my site. And I, even though I help my clients with this in copy projects, in messaging projects, I was like, What do I do to figure out what my, I don't know, my mission is to like help people have really nice, strong copy. My values are to be a good person. Like, it's like, it was really hard to reflect and do this work for myself. And I was pleased with the overall result, but it felt really torturous. And I mention this because I think that even the people who are listening that like hire this out, they're not DIYing this, it still feels very overwhelming for them, and it might feel like, what did one of my clients at the beginning of this year say? They said something like it was like one part like therapy. Like to kind of just like work through this thing of like, they don't know why that they're actually doing what they do in business. And they don't know what this means about like their vision and how they're helping people, all this stuff. So I, I bring that up first cause I do think it can be some heavy work and I also bring it up to kind of set you up. Cause I know you have a framework on how you help your clients do this. So maybe we'll jump right into the guts of the episode and talk about like what your framework is like and. And how that helps you kind of bring out this best part of your clients and their business and their brands. Okay. So, so many thoughts around what you just said. First of all, are not alone in, why is this so hard for me? I do this for clients all the time. That cobbler shoes situation is so, so real. That is why I am the hugest advocate of outside perspective, whether it is a free setting, a business bestie, an accountability group, , a bona fide consultant or coach or, , thought partner, , we are so close to it. We live and breathe our values every day. They are so inherent to us. They're so obvious to us. And yet, when we sit down to a finger at them and, and decide what it is we mean by those words, , it can be very, very, very difficult. Tricky. So, , you are absolutely not alone on that front, and that's why like half of my clients are fellow marketers and the other half are the, I hate words, people just do it for me, so it's, it's really funny, , to be able to oscillate between those two different types of brains., but then in terms of the framework, I do think having something to latch onto. Something to Guide You, makes it a little bit less, as you said, torturous., so I like to think of values in three different steps, they're all equally important, to be honest. So one is like the most obvious, that probably most people start with, which is to establish. So I'll, I'll give you one example. Outline all three. So, Establish, Define, and then Apply. Those are the three. So, in the Establish phase, that is the deep reflection. That is the brain dumping. You ask yourself big picture questions about what you care about, what you want to stand for, how you want to be known. Again, our values are our how. They're how we show up in the world. So, really thinking about things that make you extra proud, extra humiliated, , just thinking about if someone were to assign this idea to me, would that feel good or not?, it's a really great gut check., and so Most of us are multi passionates. Most of us are really good people who care a lot about a lot of things. And so we might have a list of like 20 different values that we want to adhere to all the time. That's awesome. Put them on paper. And then, again, maybe get that outside perspective. Maybe do a little bit of thesaurus work., I like to think of it as umbrella terms. So if, for example, you have, , and this is like real life, , example from my values, maybe it's like, Freedom, Exploration, Experimentation, Open Mindedness, something like that. Could one of those encompass all of those ideas when you really get down to SEO? how you view that word, right?, and I'm a word nerd. I imagine you are too. So like, that's the fun part for me., but yeah, really sort of editing down that list to three to five. In most cases, I am not a fan of prescriptive anything in life, , or in business. So I have some clients that, , have one that very specifically has this sort of like, Ascending length, list of values because it matches her brand name and her brand vibe. I have, , a good business friend who her brand name is also like an acrostic for her values. So you do you, but in general I aim for my clients 3 to 5. Another like tricky workaround is to sort of do compound values. Sometimes I do sort of like,, Collaborative Care or something like that, where it's like it's actually two, but when, when you get to step two, which is Define, you really hone in on what you mean by those two values specifically combined in that way. So Establish is that phase one, that's step one., and then step two is Actively defining what they mean to you and your business and your audience., I have a lot of clients and podcast guests that value simplicity, value community and or collaboration, value curiosity, , but it manifests completely differently because of their personality, because of their offer suite, because of their phase of business, because of their audience, because of their domain., great. Simplicity is one of your core values. What does that actually mean? What does that actually look like? Again, think of the how. How that actually show up in your business?, and again, outside perspective, very, very useful for this phase. I feel like step two is the one that's most often overlooked is, you know, Oh, I have my five core words. I'm just going to slap them on my about page and be done with it., Not enough. And so we, we have established our core values. We've actively defined what they mean to us and our people. And then step three is that apply phase. So actually using them as a lens to make decisions, having those values show up Implicitly and explicitly in our copy, in our content, in our conversations. If you say that, let's just say collaborative care, , and again, whatever that means to you, whatever, whatever comes to mind for you, , can show up in your own onboarding process that can show up in your offboarding process that can show up in, , the way you respond to IG stories., whether you respond to IG stories, it can respond, , via client GIFs or not, right?, It can manifest in how often you do,, content swaps with fellow creators. It can manifest in so many different ways. You can also have a whole podcast series, or blog post series, or, um, social series around Collaboration, Care, Collaborative Care. All things explicitly talking about that value and why it's important to you and how it shows up. Right? So, , that application phase is really, really important., and I think the biggest value add besides, extreme increases in clarity to the way you communicate your brand and your methodology., it's that internal effect and that internal value add that is so, so powerful. That ability to look at that conference that quote unquote, everyone is going to, or that real style that everyone is doing, or whatever else, and decide, you Is this right for me or not? Is this right for my team if you have one or not?, do I have this tough conversation with this client or this new hire or this person? I need to fire or this contractor i've been working with for ages., Can point to your values and say this is why i'm making this decision., and you know that might change with more information in the future or a future iteration of your business or yourself. But for now, this is the right decision for me and my business and my brand because of these values that I've taken all of this time and care and attention to establish and define. One thing I think is so interesting is how you ended with apply. Because a lot of the times what I'll hear from my clients When they're struggling with trying to like work through this and figure out what is the key elements that make a lot of difference to their brand is they, they feel like there's like a, like a chasm between using the, the values as a way to, um, influence their marketing and then using the values as part of their business processes, goals, and all of those things. And I always tell them like, there is no difference that like, these are all kind of working together. And I think that the examples you shared, you know, one of the examples was, I think something like how you respond on Instagram or like what you'd say, there's your marketing, but then it's how do you have the conversations, like the difficult conversations with your employees or your contractors or whatever, there's the values as well, which is why it is so key to do the value based work before you do the big expensive marketing projects. Like, before you do all the full website copy, before you're investing on these sales pages, or even hiring consultants to help you do the other service based things, like setting up course platforms and stuff, you need to understand what this is to be able to make those informed decisions elsewhere. And. It's not the easiest thing, right? You know, it's, I love how you mentioned that, like, you know, sometimes you might be someone who does like 20, 20 different values and you do have to potentially whittle them down, but that's kind of where I think people are on either side of that spectrum is they have like one value and they're like, I think this is what my business stands for, or this is how maybe they come to a project. I should probably lead with that. They come to a project thinking like, here's my one belief and this is what I'm doing. Or they have a list of like 50 different words that like, they really like those words and they kind of like what they mean and they have no clue how to like, get there. Um, yeah. But I think that, like, it's really important to do the early work. Now, I would love to kind of work through those three phases with just a couple questions. But I think before we do that, I'm going to jump kind of to the side. What would you say about whether or not, um, If someone's doing this work and they feel like they've really honed in on those values and they're really excited about it, what would you say if they're like confused and they're saying like, am I stuck, am I stuck with these values? Like, cause I think that there might be a lot of apprehension, like they might be able to get through and do that, that, that values based work, but then they may worry that they are kind of like in the spot that they can't get out of because they've identified their values and that is that. Okay, yes. So, it's sort of a both and situation, Yeah. So, you do not want to be willy nilly with your values, right? Like, they are meant to be that north star, that compass., but sometimes we, we want to change directions, right? We learn more information., we go down the rabbit hole of some sort of cause and, like, we are just now their biggest cause champion, right? We learn more about our audience and what they care about and how we want to intersect with them. We have experiences as business owners or different phases of life, right? You know, maybe you, yeah, become a mama and like all of a sudden all your priorities have shifted. Or like your young kiddos now finally get to go to school and you have all this space. And so that will manifest differently in how you show up., . So again, it's just a question of being communicating it, , to your people, your audience, , your team, if you have one. Or sometimes it is such a gradual shift that all of a sudden you do some reflection work at the end of the quarter, at the end of the year, or whatever, and you realize, you know what? This value is actually, , feeling less resonant for me. Yeah, it's in a sense it's kind of a maturing of kind of who the brand is, you know, and I think that this is very, it's very clear to see in other people's businesses when this goes right and wrong. When an audience tends to be very like mortified or upset by a brand acting in a specific way. I have found it's very much because they're acting out of alignment with the values and the brand persona that they've created for themselves. Mm-Hmm. is why people get upset and feel, you know, uncomfortable. However, when a brand doesn't have to put up, like, an announcement when they adjust the wording of their, like, behind the scenes, like, brand messaging guys, as examples. Meaning When it's not noticed by your audience or when your audience starts to feel better about how you're showing up, it tends to be because you're inserting more of those values that you've already kind of created for your business and you're just accentuating on or like honing into slightly better. Yeah. Um, I'm not a fan of McDonald's, but just think about if McDonald's had like a luxury menu, right? It would, it, it would just be weird. They're all about convenience. They're Yeah. that, like, as consistent as possible, even if the quality is not high. Mm hmm. Or think about like Patagonia, right? Mm out with like some cheapo thing, , people are willing to pay more because they know there's a backstory to it, right? So it doesn't matter what your values are. Values are not inherently good or bad. hmm. ones that you think would be shining stars. My favorite example is sort of like inclusivity versus exclusivity. Yeah. neither is good or bad. It just depends on how you define it Mm hmm. you actively apply it, right? Yes. so yeah, if having more people in the fold and having more diverse voices and points of view will add value to everyone who's part of that community, , All the better. Be as inclusive as possible. But if you know you need to work with a very specific identity, lived experience, vernacular, and, , the only way to deliver the best experience for them is to make sure that group is extremely tight knit and has all the shared, same shared qualities, then make it as exclusive as possible, right?, neither is good or bad. It is simply how you and your audience interact with it. That's what's important. where all the magic happens. Okay, cool. So let's jump back. Let's go back to the established phase for a second because I think, you know, a super simplified exercise could literally just be like journaling, brainstorming, trying to get some of those ideas out there on what you think you might stand for, right? But then hearing even how you had mentioned that like inclusive and exclusive type of value, I wonder if there's a way to , maybe bring other people in to have them reflect them back on you, but would that be moving into your define stage? Yeah. I think that outside perspective is valuable at any Yeah., maybe you need it to get going. Maybe you need it to sort of cross that finish line. Maybe you, maybe you are like, you know, great with words and that's why you're listening to a copy podcast. Right. And so, , maybe you, you did really well in the established and defined phase, but you're actually struggling with how can this show up in my marketing and operations? How Mm hmm. Mm these to make decisions?, so yeah, I'm a huge fan of that, , outside perspective that. Space holding that, , that reflection,, at any point, any or all points hmm. process. Yeah, one thing I tell my clients a lot of the time is like, well, let's kind of, it's different though, because this is from like working with a service provider, and I do think that there's, Very different approach because a lot of the times I can pull things out of my clients, and I'm sure you understand this, that like they don't know that they're telling me things. They think like maybe they're answering a question about something else completely, but it gives me just like a little nudge to say like, Oh, I will take a note and be like, we'll bring this up later when we actually dive more into the values because this, this is a word they keep saying over and over again, or this is like a feeling that they keep saying they want their, their clients to, to have when they work with them, stuff like that. So I do think there is different if you're trying. Try to figure this out on your own or if you're working with someone, but one thing I always tell my clients is to like, keep the outside voices out in the beginning part. Definitely, I think they're so valuable to have, but I like them to kind of, you know, You know how I talked about it being torturous? Well, it's easy if you allow someone else to tell you what your brand values are. Easy, right? Like, I could like, go on the internet right now on any social media platform and be like, What do you think I stand for? Right? Fingers crossed I've done a decent job that people would actually say things that I would I would hope my values to be, but that's still allowing outside influences to define your values for you. So, I think it's important to kind of sit with the hard work. Even if you feel like you're doing it quote unquote wrong, which I feel like so many people think they're doing things wrong, but this is just an exercise. There is no right way, from my opinion, to actually come up with values. Do whatever works for you. And then I think it's really helpful to bring people in to clarify, because you had said something in that define phase where it was kind of like, you might find words that you really like, but you don't know exactly why, right, like you don't exactly know why you've chosen them or if you've combined them, like how they work together. And I think that that if you are an established person, Business. It could be helpful to ask your clients, your customers, your audience. This is even an example when you can bring in like family and friends, which I rarely say for business marketing stuff. But you can say, Hey, I have come up with the value of, um, transparency and I know this word really feels right for me. I'd love for you to reflect back on me why you think this word is right or why you think this word fits. Maybe you have a different word you'd like to throw out. You know, because you know me very well, or you've worked with me in business. And I think that the way that people will then describe you based on these values that you've set can be very helpful to, to, to do a couple things. To really, I'm define exactly what those values are, both for business and for marketing. But it does help with marketing in the sense that it's kind of like a different form of voice of customer research, or let's just say here, like voice of audience research, especially if you're bringing in people in your personal life., I have done this a couple of times and I actually have been kind of shocked with the answers where people might have, like, even a family member might have, might've asked them, like, what do you actually think I do in business? Because That's fun. That's a fun thing to ask everyone in your life. And I guarantee the listeners here, like you're going to have some interesting comments. I'm pretty positive that my in laws still think I write books for business. Like I love them, Or a lawyer, right? A yeah. lawyer. Love, love these people who, anyway, , but I, I found that like, when I asked them things like, why do you, do you think that I actually live with, , integrity in this way? Or do you think that, , I actually put this practice into my day to day? Like, This is not the right word choice, but like patience, for example, like, because you might find the word that like you're looking for isn't patient. Like, I don't think I'm that patient of a person, but I might be like calm. I might be, Or understanding. So I think kind of brainstorming with people once you've kind of given yourself the like overall arching ideas that you'd like for your values can take it a long way into the future of like how you apply them and use them in your business. Well, and that's an interesting caveat, too, or like catch 22, almost, is brand is dynamic. we have all the intentions. We do all of the creation. We do all of the visioning., we determine how we want to be known, right?, and yet, It is always a song, a dance, a conversation, a relationship., a brand for me, simply the definition of it is simply like perception, right? It is your reputation. It is how people receive and perceive what it is you put out there. So we cannot control that., we can be as intentional as possible so that it's as aligned as possible., but sometimes what someone else sees, hears, experiences. despite our best intentions, , is going to be different than what we had in mind. I mean, that's not necessarily a good or bad thing. It is just a factor to consider, right? So we can decide how we're going to show up, what we're going to put out, , how we're going to price, what offers we, we create, etc., but everyone who then sees that experience is that is going to bring their own lived experiences and, , their own colored lenses to, , interpret that. So I do think that perspective from, again, people that you Know and trust and want to be more in your orbit., that is a beautiful solution to getting that outside perspective., it also is sometimes really useful to get like strangers., strangers in a, in a random, you know, group that you're part of or a stranger consultant, or coach or copywriter that you just hire for an hour or something like that., to give their sort of unbiased, unfiltered, they don't know past you iteration view., yeah, I really think that you can approach the entire, the entire brand messaging process, but especially values aligned brand messaging, , from that 360 view., really, Attack it from all angles. Attack is the wrong word. Approach it. Approach it gently, lovingly from all angles., and, and again, know that it can and will evolve. Yeah. just like when you, like, when you redo your website and you're like, yes, it's done. And then literally the next day, oh man, I want to change this Yeah. Your website is never done. Your business is never done. Your brand messaging is never done. That doesn't mean it is fruitless exercise. It is a constant, gut check, compass, coming back point to then make that intentional next step, whatever that is., so yeah, take that as you will. It's, it's both frustrating and very permission giving at the same time. Well, I always tell people, like, if you've actually very wisely invested, especially working with someone to do brand messaging, or to do even just your salt, like your first website, or first, like, quote unquote grown up website, while they are all evolving and they're being built upon, if you invest wisely, you're gonna have the strongest foundation. It's not starting over, and I think that's where a lot of people have a lot of fears or, , precautions that they're, like, taking before hiring someone because they may have been burned. And a lot of what I'm seeing is people will hire, like, a peer, you know, or like, even just, you know, trade services with someone else also starting out, and they do their messaging, and the other one does their, like, website, let's say. Only to find out, like, they didn't have the skills or expertise necessary. So if it didn't work out, they're kind of starting over. But I think that, like, this is the beauty in truly having that outside consultant come in. Because even though we're saying these things are evolving, we're saying that they may need adjustments or changes over time as you as a person, and you as your business and your brand change. You're just building upon a foundation. You are not like, like gutting the house and like tearing up the ground and starting from scratch again. And. I am all for DIYing on this podcast. That's why I try to talk to people who do this on their own while also talking to people who hire out for things. But I do think that there is a lot of value. Even if you're DIYing, like you mentioned, bring in a consultant for a short period. Do all this work on your own. Hire someone for like a strategy call. Hire someone, , even if you don't get face to face, like send them your work. Ask them if they will edit and make notes for you because you don't want to be in the point where a year from now you decide that I don't know how to apply these. Or, like, I don't know if I even did this right. You want, you want these, especially the value aspect of the Mission Vision and Values, you really want them to be, like, the guiding forces and not something that's jerking you around in every single direction because you're just not confident that it's where it needs to be and you're just guessing. Yeah. yeah, I, Always say brand messaging strategy is that foundation., I think of like a tree, right? If your brand is a tree, brand messaging, especially those values are the root system. Sometimes you don't even see it, right? You just know it's there., and then I think the visual branding is like that trunk, that like very prominent, what everyone thinks is a brand. Yeah. then all of the branches and leaves and flowers and fruits are the copy, the content, the PR opportunities,, , Everything else that is shiny and bright and, , reaches all the people, right? But they would have nothing to stand on without that very foundational brand messaging strategy., or, you know, you could, but would it be any good, right? Is that really what you want to be putting out? You know, is it a single apple on a tray or is it a whole beautiful apple tree, right?, so I think that yes, everyone is capable of doing their own copy content brand messaging strategy., but I do think that anyone who invests in, in, in a values aligned, personality aligned situation does not regret it. Yeah. my business, I felt that because I was a marketer, I had to do everything on my own. I really wish like I could like put out advertisements on the internet now to be like, if you're a marketer, you don't, you can hire people to help you with your marketing because it's so valuable., I still do all of the actual implementation work on my own, but I will tell you, I do almost nothing without reviewing it. with one of my contractors that I'll work with on occasion, just to get a different set of eyes on it. Because I will find that she always says things to me. Like she, you get to know other people's writing and she'll say like, you don't mean this. And I'll go back to it and I'll be like, No, I said that all wrong, right? Like, but it's like, I've read, I probably read it three times before I turned it over to her, but she was able to look at it and say, like, I think you mean to say this differently. Like, I get what you mean. I don't think your audience will, or she'll look at something and say, like, can you expand on this? Or she'll look at something and say, like, cut this. Like, you're just going on and on. Like, you're not, you're away from your point and it's very helpful. So, you know. I think that if you are a marketer, you're doing this on your own, there's such value in not, in stopping that. And if you're not a marketer and you're listening, like just know all of the marketers or all of the like longer term successful marketers also get help with this stuff. So it's not like a deficit. It's not like you don't know your business well enough or you failed because you don't know your own values. Like, No, you do. All we're doing is really kind of drawing them out of you. Like, I don't know about you. I really hope you answer in the same way I do here, but like I'm not making up values for anyone. Like I am not deciding my client's values. And I think that that's a concern too, is that like, sometimes people worry like, well, how are you going to know this? Like, I'm going to know because you're going to inform me. Like that's the only way I know anyone else's values. Oh, that's such a beautiful point. I've actually never thought of that objection before. Yeah. but yeah. Yeah, what is so, I always say that I like distill and translate. I'm not pulling ideas out of thin air. I'm not doing a ton of like comp research and things that maybe copywriters are., I am sitting, listening, holding space, opening that door to that rabbit hole., I always say lean into the rants, right?, so often, on, brand messaging intensives, , My client will say, Oh no, sorry, I'm rambling or I'm ranting. And yes, yes, please lean into the ramble because that's how I know you are passionate about it. That's how I know this has come up over and over again. That's how I know that this is so, so core to, , how you think about your brand and your audience. So often clients are, , surprised or impressed or like emotional when they see the brand messaging strategy. And every time I say, this came directly from you, sometimes even verbatim., sometimes it is simply a matter of capturing it. And, and often it is a matter of translating it, distilling it, making it into marketing speak or, , putting it through that values lens, , finding those common threads and those connection points. That's where like all the fun is for me. That's, that's why I always say that brand messaging is like a little bit of science and a little bit of magic., yes, everyone can do it, but not everyone can do it easily and well. So, , yeah, it's such a nuanced and deeply personal process. Yeah. for brand messaging say to me, like, when they got there, like deliverable, we kind of like reviewed it so we can make refinements because of course, when you turn something like this over, you want your client to make, Feel comfortable, right? Like sometimes you may be off the mark using the example of, of me working with my colleague of saying like, well, that's not exactly what I meant when I described that to you, you know? So when I review it, viewed it with a client recently, they had said something to the effect of like. I'm pretty sure I wrote this. Like, this is exactly like what I would say, but I also don't think I ever thought this before. And I was like, that's exactly, exactly what you want. You want your brand messaging and your copy, or however you're looking at it, to sound so much like you or to like really resonate where you're thinking to yourself like, did I say that? But you want to be able to have explored that, right? Like it's in, it's inside of you and you might not know how to articulate it. So there's that line between like, holy crap. Like this is actually what I, what I think this is what my business is like. And yes, that's coming from you. That's not coming from us. I, the word that comes to mind for me when, when I think of brand messaging strategy is so often validation. Hmm. it is just having someone else say, Oh yeah, you do know your stuff. You, you are deeply passionate about this. You are on the right track., okay, so to kind of conclude this maybe I think people are concerned about is messing up the application process. Application meaning, like, how to apply, like, in your three word phases. Now, what happens or what would your advice be if someone They define their values and then once they start to put them into practice, they feel misaligned or they don't know how to actually put it into practice. Do you have any advice for either of those scenarios? Yeah. So I think for the latter, like, Oh, this feels really important, but where's this supposed to show up?, I think I would recommend some sort of like brainstorm, mind map, , maybe even some, you know, quote unquote comp research, you know, like look at some other brands that you admire and is it. that you admire them because they're ultra, ultra transparent, and are transparent because they show monthly income reports, or they're transparent because they talk about their personal health journey, or they're transparent because they talk about a really sticky divorce that they're going through, whatever., Does that type of transparency feel good to you or bad to you? Sometimes looking outward to then look inward can be useful., or again, , hop on a call with a real person. A consultant, a coach, a business bestie, a life partner, doesn't matter. And, and say, you know, this feels so, so important. I really want to come across as, , intentional in my business, or ask them, you know, what would feel intentional to you? Or, , look through all the various points of your copy content, conversations, and figure out, , does this feel intentional or not? You know, have you looked at your tech stack recently? There's a point of, in a point of intentionality that you could absolutely clean up and then you could have a whole content piece around how you cleaned up your tech stack based on intentional choices to either keep with it or change platforms. Right., so the, the lack of ideas, , for me is an easier solve., and then the misalignment, , it can either be sort of like spur of the moment. You are so deeply out of integrity and so deeply mortified that you instantly know, oops, need to make a change, , or it can be that slow burn, that, that evolution that you wake up one morning and look in the mirror and you think, Oh, this is different. So I think that's a question of,, intentional check ins or audits every so often, every quarter, if that floats your boat, twice a year, if that floats your boat, , for sure, once a year, just. Go through the various quote unquote departments of your business., again, whether you have people filling those roles or whether you're doing all of them, you still have those buckets of business, right? And go through and sort of Can you do sort of like those, , like kid activities where you like draw the line between one column and the other?, can everything in the buckets be drawn to one of your values? If not, then, , there's misalignment there. Or if everything is going to the same three values and you have these two little outliers out here, can they just be absorbed or simply dropped?, or replaced with something else that,, didn't have a home to, to go to, right?, so change is inevitable, um, but it does need to be thoughtful and action oriented and, , backed up by something beyond your gut, right?, yes, trust your gut, follow your head and heart and where those converge, , and also have those values and those actions be really, tangible. Love that. And I think it's the perfect place to end. So we're chopping it today, everyone. We've said everything that we can to kind of get you thinking about your own messaging, your mission, your vision, your values, and how to really have this like values aligned business that allows you to make decisions for your marketing and decisions for your business. Ashlee, it was great talking to you today. Thank you so much. I feel like in some way we kind of just did like a masterclass versus a podcast episode and I'm sure everyone will be very grateful for your time here. So thank you so much, Ashlee. Yeah, thanks so much for having me.