What to Have Ready Before Paying for Google Ads with Olivia Lawson

Ever wonder why your Google Ads aren't converting, even when your targeting feels spot-on? 

The problem might not be your ads at all—instead, it's likely your website. Why? Well, before you sink money into paid advertising, your site needs to prove it can convert visitors organically. Otherwise, you're just paying for traffic that bounces.

In this episode, Google Ads strategist Olivia Lawson joins me to discuss exactly what needs to be in place before you hit that "launch campaign" button. 

From crystal-clear CTAs and price transparency to your entire sales process, we're covering the foundational work that determines whether your ad spend becomes profit or just expensive data. 

If you're considering paid ads (or already running them without seeing results), this conversation will save you serious time and money.

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EPISODE 179.
Read the show notes and view the full transcript here: https://erinollila.com/what-to-do-before-paying-for-google-ads

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Get to know our Google Ads expert: Olivia Lawson
Olivia Lawson is a certified Google Ads strategist and proud data nerd based in Austin, Texas. She loves digging into the numbers, spotting what’s working, and optimizing campaigns to make your ad spend work harder. 

Olivia helps small business owners feel confident in their Google Ads by creating clear, data-backed strategies that bring in more qualified leads and sustainable growth for their business.

Check out Olivia's Google Ads ROI Calculator or visit her website to learn more about working with her.

Here's the info on your host, Erin Ollila
Erin Ollila believes in the power of words and how a message can inform – and even transform – its intended audience. She graduated from Fairfield University with an M.F.A. in Creative Writing, and went on to co-found Spry, an award-winning online literary journal.

When Erin’s not helping her clients understand their website data or improve their website copy, you can catch her hosting the Talk Copy to Me podcast and guesting on shows such as Profit is a Choice, Mindful Marketing, The Power in Purpose, and Business-First Creatives.

Stay in touch with Erin Ollila, SEO website copywriter:
• Learn more about working with me or just book a strategy session to get started right away
• Visit Erin's website to learn more about her business, services, and products

Transcript

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Why do you think that people should optimize their sites before they come to someone like you and start running ads, back to their website for the business?, I mean, there's some nuance to that question too, right? But, it really comes down to what the business is expecting out of those ads. If the business is expecting actual leads or actual sales, then you want your website to be converting. You want to know that your website can convert the people that are visiting it organically, right? They're finding your website, without a paid ad, and they are. Filling out that contact form or purchasing that product. because when you're paying for ads, you're paying for that traffic, right? So if you aren't getting that conversion that you ultimately want, , you're still getting the traffic, but now you're paying for it. This is an interesting, , question because the nuance to that., Is if you have a very high tolerance for risk and you wanna gather data quickly, , and you have a big budget and you're willing to pay for it, right?, Running ads to a website that maybe is not quite ready, you can gather a lot of data quickly, you have to one, know, again,, what is the goal of it? What kind of data are you wanting to collect? And then what do you ultimately wanna do with that data? Which, , some of my clients, that's what they wanna do, but they have the budgets to do that. They have Yeah. to do that. Right. I wouldn't, Yeah. I wanna prove out my offers organically before I'm running paid traffic to it because, each one of those clicks is. It might cost you a dollar, if not more, especially if you're in the B2B space. You know those clicks can be well over $10. Yeah, and that's a lot of money, , spent. Yes. It does all go back to that, where do you, what do you have more of? Do you have more money? Do you have more time?, again, I like the idea of getting data quickly, but I think that for most of the people that are listening, one thing I preach over and over again is like. You doing things quickly is not always the best approach when you're marketing for a small business because you sometimes just need to let things sit and percolate for a bit before you find out if they're actually working well for your business. So bringing this back to getting your website ready for paid advertising, what are some of the copy things that they could spot check on their website to. See if it is ready or to see if it is working, , to send paid ads to. Well, I mean the, personally, the number that I'm looking at is the website conversion Mm-hmm. you know, how many leads did you get? How many website visitors did you get? I'm looking at usually a 90 day window for that. but from a copy perspective, and even from, I would say a website design perspective, the areas that I see that., Tend to be, , and this is especially true for small business owners that have DIYed their own sites, or, , the messaging of the service or the product isn't very clear. The CTAs, the call to action, , what thing you want that visitor to ultimately do,, isn't very clear, , or isn't consistent. As well as the, just the overall navigation of the page., It sounds like an easy thing to think of, but, there's a science, and I mean you as a website person know this, but there's a science behind how a webpage is laid out and how you, ultimately funnel the person through to get that action., So those are the things that I typically tend to see missing that. CTA is not clear. It's not consistent. The navigation of it is clunky, or there's things that are missing or, just not, laid out very well. So , I'm gonna jump backward and this might seem silly, but something you had said kind of got me thinking like, oh, I wonder if that's something you see often enough, because I guarantee it is something that people listening here. Are either not doing or are maybe wondering, but you said something like, you like to look back 90 days, for example, over the data that they have. Do you often get clients that come to you that don't have analytics set up well or don't have any of these special reporting things that come through analytics to measure whether they are actually, , what their leads and conversions and all that are like? Yeah, so usually the people that I'm working in working with have , worked with an agency of some sort, so they usually have the things installed. They just don't know. How to look at it, what they're looking at. but some of them even are paying for really expensive analytic tools like, , blue Whale and that sort of thing, but they've never opened it. And so, you know, it's one of those things where, yes, data is cool and tools are cool, but if you don't know what to do with it, then they're not really doing much for you. Yeah, because I definitely have the feeling that a lot of people who are listening, they have quality websites, they have analytics set up running in the background, but they don't know how to read them or they don't. They haven't worked with anyone to help them set them up in a little bit more of a customized way and I think that. I don't actually, I don't have an opinion on this. Let me ask you a question. Do you think that they should have a general idea of what their data is like? Or are they able to, , work with someone like you who can help them understand that before as like part of the package of getting those paid ads so that they know what not to waste money on, or maybe what to do to, , prepare for, a higher budget ad spend or something like that? Yeah. So, part of my discovery process, I don't know about other ad managers, but um, part of my discovery process is going through with them. And let's look at, okay, if you have analytics, let's look at what kind of visitors you're getting., What are they doing when they're on the page? Um, how many leads are you getting? How many products are you selling? Right?, Whatever those, . Key conversions are, and then figuring out what that conversion rate is together because you know, one, it educates them. But two, it also ensures that I am taking on a client that is a right fit for Google Ads because I also don't wanna, take on a client that I'm not pretty confident that I'm gonna make you profitable at the end of, the time that we work together and that, you're essentially recouping what you're investing, right? Yeah, and I feel the same way when it comes to SEO. Like I've worked with people who maybe have strong messaging, design copy is pretty good, and they've, they come to me and they're like, okay, yeah, I definitely wanna invest in SEO. Like, I'm ready to either pay you to do it or just let's do some research and set up. But I will look at their site. And the problem is that they are, their site's so heavily loaded with just junk and plugins and , the page speed is so slow. And I, I try to tell clients like that, , you're almost ready, but. You would be wasting your money on me. Like I can't show you the results that you're hoping for until some of these things are adjusted. So bringing it back to paid advertising, I guess that's kind of the same thing with you. If they work on their copy, if they work on their calls to action, if they figure out, whatever end goal that they have in mind actually relates to the conversion that they're looking for on the page, your better able to do your job and you're better able to get them the results. Because without that, it's like setting you up to fail because, or not even fail, but not succeed as well as you could because of a few foundational things that really need to be fixed. I for sure. Business owners come to me in, one of two camps. Either they are operating very well and now they're ready to scale. They've got all of their things dialed in, they've got. Their business is doing well, they've got leads, they've got clients, now they want more. Right? and then we have the other side of the camp where people come to me and think that the ads are gonna be a magical fix. and they're not, right? They're only going to amplify what's already happening on your website. So if the website is struggling, if you feel like you're struggling and you're not getting enough leads. You feel like you're not able to close those leads?. The ads are only going to amplify all of those things that are happening because that, , the fundamental pieces below the ad are not optimal. And like I just mentioned for SEO, if your site like tech stuff is giving you the problem and you pay, you spend the money to hire someone to help you with your ads, you spend the money to get people to the site and it takes the site a long time to load. There's a really good chance that person is not even sticking around to click and see what happens because they're not spending money to come to your site. And I know that's so obvious, like you're listening and you're like, duh. Like of course they're not. But I think we had this expectation that when we spend money to get someone to our website, they're going to look around and while they might be in our audience. They're still a stranger like we are, our business is a stranger to them. So we still have to put in all of that effort that we would put even without paid advertisement to, build trust with that person to show your expertise, to show your experience, and. It's 10 times worse to lose a website visitor, because your site's just slow or maybe you don't speak to their ideal need on your homepage, whatever, than it is to pay for that person and then lose them because they just couldn't stick around for a site that was just not up to the standards that they had or not answering the questions that they had. Yeah, , well, I like to joke that we have the attention span of a mouse fart, right? Like we, people are not. Sticking around for clunky, slow loading sites., We are used now, we are used to now to getting, to things fast, right? We want everything fast, and if we're sitting there waiting around for two seconds for our website to load, people aren't gonna wait for that. No, not at all. And. Bringing this back to some of those things that you pointed out that you really need to have dialed in on your website. I feel like a broken record sometimes, but like part of having you here is kind of nice to have that echo chamber to just say , this is not Aaron. Just like harping on us over the same things over and over again. Like, it's not just because I want people to have copy that is clear. Right. Or to direct people in like a, a solid user experience on the site or like to navigate them in places. This is all based on data. This is all done for the purpose of literally, , whatever the conversion is for you. Now, for many businesses, that conversion's gonna be a sale,?, like whether that sale happens immediately on the site and they're, someone's able to purchase like a course or a product, or if the sale happens later as part of, an actual sales process, but. I feel like websites get so neglected and so left behind because they're not that shiny thing that's like begging for attention, ? Like, they're in the backseat., They're there, they exist, but you don't need to do much with them because you know that they're safe in the car. They're not like the toddler that's like jumping from the front seat or the dog, right? That's jumping from the trunk to the backseat and back to the trunk sticking its head out the window., You're not worried about it. And because it's not calling your attention every second of,. Your day, you just allow it to exist. But . Let's say you have great products, or let's say you have , a wild new service and , you're ready to put money behind it. If you haven't acknowledged that the site's done correctly or you haven't acknowledged that once someone lands there, they easily know how to purchase. You are spending a lot, , and I think that's where people might feel dissatisfied with ads, right? Like if they're not getting the result that they want, that doesn't mean that the ad was, is not done well. It doesn't mean that it's not working. Perfectly. Is that safe to assume? Yeah, I mean, I like to say that they both have their own job, right? So the a's job is to bring someone to the site, but your site's job is to convert them. And that's the biggest job, which is, it's funny that you say that, it becomes the ignored toddler or stepchild or whatever you said, , because , the website is the most important piece. Now everyone you heard her say that, right? That wasn't me. Like someone else is telling you the website is the most important piece., There is actually an episode where I talk about , the idea is just because it's not urgent doesn't mean it's not important. And even just in the little conversation we've had so far, it reminds me how related SEO is to paid ads. That like you're nodding your head like of course. Right? As the ad specialist or the SEO specialist, you're doing the same thing, right? Your job is done well, if you can get a qualified person or like a good audience fit to a website and that's it, that the job is done at that point. So yeah, you need good ad copy maybe good design but. There's still so much more that goes into it to make sure that the ad is,. Converting well and that it is your hands as the paid ad person., are you actually working with other providers to improve on those things, so that your actual ads can improve based on that work? Through the discovery process, I try to only work with clients that have checked those boxes already, right? Because again, most of the people that I work the exception of maybe two of my clients, they don't have these gigantic ad spend budgets, right? They're limited in what they can spend an ad spend for an ad manager for SEO, for all of the things that they need. And so, I try to work with clients that are already there. There are, on an occasion I will take on someone that, yes, I need to work with another service provider. But, think there's always some resistance to that because they're working on your website copy, you working on the design. Those things aren't as sexy as ads. If I can make like writing website copy sexier, like I would be incredibly rich because the people that will come to me as leads are like. Mostly coming because their designer is forcing them to come. So it's definitely not something that people think about in advance, and sure they might be happy to do it, , but the words just aren't as sexy as the images or, you don't see that immediate return on investment, right? Again, there's no urgency in the website, yeah, sorry. I'm just interrupting you to talk about the lack of sexiness and website copy and how your job can be a little bit more sexy. Well, no, I mean, but they're both sexy. I think they work together very well., If I have a client who has. A website that's converting poorly, and I think, you know what? It's the page. We need to kind of revamp the copy. We need to revamp navigation, et cetera. If they can do that while we're running ads, we almost always see a big jump in conversions. And then that is for them an immediate Oh, okay. Validation that was the right move. They invested well and everything else downstream is, converting better at the end of the day. But what I often get are business owners that are very resistant to invest in those areas and then it becomes a, well, then it doesn't make sense to run ads anymore if you're not gonna, improve the foundational pieces. Because they're not a bandaid you mentioned this very early on, like you can't throw a lot of money at something that's not performing well with the hopes that the. Ad spend will make it perform better, right? If your product's not tested, if it's not something your audience wants, or it's the copy is so shabby that it's not doing its job to sell that product or service, then what's the point, right? Like , the ad is not gonna work., The lead that sees it is not gonna care. So basically to sum that up, , you can audit your own website or you can have a professional audit, the site to see, are there navigation issues? Are people getting like stuck up in certain areas that don't lead to the conversion? Are the forms broken, like I just mentioned? Are, is the messaging clear? Um, are you actually asking for the sale or to book a call or to schedule an appointment, whatever the actual conversion related event is that you can check. It's. It does take some time and then you, but, and you might end up with a to-do list that depresses you slightly 'cause you're like, oh crap. Like, okay, now I've gotta fix these things. Right? But you at least have those answers and you can build upon them. I'm gonna jump sideways and you're gonna be, you know what I might say, but like you're, you as the listener are gonna be like, oh crap. Now they're really calling me out. Because while what we're here to talk about is the website and like obviously you need a solid website before you can do the paid ads. But there are other things in place that need to happen. Besides just fixing the website, like the sales process, how does that look behind the scenes because if you get people to your website, if they convert as in the sense of completing a form or booking a call, but then you get them on a discovery call and that's it. Like the proposals end there. You have a problem as in, in that part of your sales process, and that problem can't be filled with pretty words. It can't be filled with , a conversion focused ad, right? It needs to be fixed from the sense of like how you work with your leads and how you speak to them, what the actual offer is. Um Preach, girl. Preach., Besides , just like conversations, like sales conversations. Are there any offsite website things that you can think of that need to be dialed in before people pay to get their ads in order? Yeah, I, I mean, I love when a client or a prospect comes in and they have an actual lead management service in place, A CRM, right? Where they know where their leads are at. They're, , able to, have an autoresponder and respond to them, follow up with 'em because I mean, you know, don't say yes immediately. It's pretty rare. You have to have multiple touch points in that process. So, , I love when they come through with that in place when they have some clarity around their service offerings and what their process looks like. Because then I know, okay, well if you're on a sales call, you're probably pretty clear about what this is gonna look like and the likelihood that you have a high close rate is. Pretty high., So yeah, I like having those things in place and I don't personally put, , CRMs and lead management systems in place for them. But, , I have a lot of really cool people that I work with that I can send them off to, to get them sorted. I'm so glad you said that one, just'cause I wasn't thinking of it at all., But I have lectured on and off like in different episodes . You might think copy is just the words that you see on advertisements on the actual website page, but, I really want business owners to rethink the idea that copy is just for sales, because copy is also part of the client experience Mm. or just lead experience as a whole. Again, we see that when we think of like a sales page, well, the copy of course is part of the lead experience because it's influencing them or it's making them feel more confident to purchase whatever. What happens after you click that purchase? We both exist a lot on the online business world. So if you buy something from someone and you click the confirm that the credit card gets charged, and then you get a blank gray screen. What happens then you're like, oh, hope that went through, like you check your email, there's not a confirmation email. You start to worry like, oh crap. My credit card says it's charged, but like maybe it didn't go through on their end. Do I need to contact them? So I paint that picture first because that's copy that is messaging, but it's client experience copy, so people don't think of it as much. What I'm suggesting, if you haven't, tuned into all the things I'm hinting at is like, you need a thank you page. You need a page that's confirmed you have actually bought that thing. You need an email. Again, people don't think of this as copy, but you need an email that says , here are your next steps. So if someone maybe books , a done with you pro a project, let's say. That email should make them feel comfortable, like," okay, this might be automated, but they're ready for me, I'm a priority. So all of those things kind of sit between A CRM, which a lot of the time it gets automated in, , , and your website, so. Don't forget about the words that are not public and make sure that some of these things , are built up, , welcome guides, anything like that, like onboarding work, even off-boarding type of copy is. Helpful to have in place because if, you know you, you do ads, people come to your site, it actually converts, all goes well. You want them to leave happy as well as just being happy to purchase, ? So they can continue to spread the words so they can share testimonial. But it all does play together, and if you want success in one area, you really need to focus and invest in all of those areas. Yeah, I think, I mean, keeping that relationship and that experience of the person on the other side of the screen as. In the forefront and, it important. You just set yourself up for outcomes all the way through, because, by the time someone gets to the website and submits the form or makes the purchase, they've already been in, in the sphere for a while, have visited before. They now they're finally. Making this, , commitment to you,. All right. Well, I'm gonna pivot and ask a question now., Because people are hearing us, they're hearing us say like, the importance of, getting their website all set, looking at their whole systems and stuff.. I kind of wanna jump back to that unspoken thing where we had talked about , do you have enough space for these new clients? Because I think that helps people make the decision on maybe where to invest. So if someone is feeling pretty confident now that they think they, they have their site locked in, their messaging set up. Good user journey. They feel confident on their calls., And they do have some budget to spend on paid advertising, but they've never done it before. Do you have recommendations for , how to know maybe what to start with?,, Well, I mean, if you're a service clients, then you wanna run ads to the services that you want more clients in., And then for products, at least on the Google Ads side, I work with physical products. And then, you're probably gonna wanna look at maybe sending traffic to your top performers or your best sellers., If budget is an issue, if you know you're wanting maybe to clear out. Overstock and that sort of thing. Well then, , you might run ads to that. And then once they start running the ads and they start to get the data, do you have any advice for them on , when to forge through? Let's say if they're not like getting the . 100% win at first, but you still know as that ad specialist, we gotta give this more time. Do you have any suggestions for them on like how to like be patient or how patient they should be when they start doing this? I mean, I would love for ads to be immediately profitable and perform amazing from day one, but, , it usually takes a little bit, you know, anywhere from 30 to 90 days for things to gel out in the platform as well, because at least on the Google Front, it's a very technical machine learning process that's taking place. And so it needs data to accumulate. Uh, so that it knows how to do things best., To put it very simply, , and so , yeah, you wanna let things kind of simmer for a bit before you start over optimizing.'cause that is also a thing., If you start changing too many things at once, then you don't know which one of the things actually made a difference to it. Which I think is why bringing it back to the main point, it is so helpful to know that what is in good working order before you get started. Because if you are truly confident that your site is dialed in, meaning. There are clear calls to action. The copy is very clear on who it's for, who it's not for all those things. If you really truly know your site is dialed in and an ad is not necessarily performing well. Is it safe to say that there'll be more of a clue of why it is not performing well, or at least what they should touch to change it? Assuming that your site is converting well and , I mean over 2%, and the ads aren't performing. Things that I am gonna look at are what kind of keywords are you bidding on?, How's your budget allocated? In Google Ads specifically, there are things called negative keywords. And so , you wanna have those in place so that you're not essentially wasting your money on i relevant traffic is what that comes down to. So those are probably the big things that I see, , that a business owner, especially negative keywords, that , doesn't require a lot of specialized knowledge you know your business and you can go through those search term reports and say, oh, this is not, what I offer and block it out. Which again, that's all based on the fact that you're entering into your advertising in a place that you're already like, in a safe place. Like you have things dialed in and you know that the issue's not so much your website. So even then I would assume that copy is still an influencing factor, right? Um, if the website converts well and the ads are not converting well, then yeah, usually I would start. the ad front. Yeah. but I have yet to ever have an ad account , with a well performing ad, with ads that not performing well. Yeah. usually the other way around. It's a, you know, a business that jumped the gun in their running ads and the site was not ready for it. Which is the whole reason we are here today. I can't tell you how thrilling it is to have someone on here to help back me up because there were so many solo episodes where I'm like, if you would just listen to me, people, Yeah. telling you what to do. Um, but again, it really does go back to that whole , don't waste your time. Don't waste your money. Just get things in order, , before you do all these exciting things, right? Like when I, , usually when I finish a website, copy project, many clients they'll be like, so what's next?? And I'll hear these things like, okay, well I'm gonna start a LinkedIn newsletter. And I'm like, are you on LinkedIn? Wait, like, we have been working together for two months now you're on LinkedIn. And they're like, no, no, but so and so said that they get this many leads once on their LinkedIn newsletter. I'm like, you told me you hated social media. And they'd be like, I do, but this is a good decision for me. And I also hear a lot of people say things like, "well now that my site's done, I'm gonna do, , paid ads" and I'll be like, time out. Time out. This is the very first time you launched a shop on your website. Yes, you have had these products and I think they're great. I think the copy is great and , obviously we just finished, so I'm feeling really good about your opportunity for success, but I think you need to set yourself up in a different way and drive some organic traffic there, right?, And again, this could be, I could be wrong in my assumption here, but , don't do paid ads, do every single thing that you have on your site right away, right? Focus on a couple things and see what's working and what's not., Because. It's the end goal that people see. Right? It's that sexy thing of this LinkedIn newsletter brought like 2000 new leads to their email list, and these paid ads sold X number of products for them. But for what? Is that the goal? Did those people that came and bought that, you know, SLO offer that you have, like, did they ever turn into like bigger clients or did they just buy that $7 product and disappear? Do they buy $7 products and then hire you for a $7,000 website design package?. Figuring out the goals , and working on some of that , one-on-one, uh, front and center like marketing efforts, I think really will give you the information you need to have a better and more successful paid advertise advertising campaign later. Yeah, for sure. Again, it's, they're foundations and they're fundamentals, but, maybe they sound simple, , and they're not exciting, but they're a thousand percent, way more important than the shiny new thing that's coming all right, to sum it up, we're basically telling you, optimize your site., Get it in good working order, make sure your messaging is clear. Make sure you have, strong calls to action. Make sure that you know who your audience is and what they actually need. Make sure that your site, . Is both clear, but it also directs people in the right way. Navigates them to where they need to go. And then, and obviously all the behind the scenes things about like actually knowing how to do discovery calls and the sales process. And then once you have those in place, then I think, , testing ads could definitely. Drive forward some success, did I miss anything? Price transparency. I'm gonna throw that one in Um. this where there's no pricing listed anywhere. That's actually really helpful because you, yes. You're already spending your own money to get people to your site. They need to have, even if it is a high ticket thing, , where they wouldn't necessarily press buy there and they might need to connect with you, they need to have some type of a price anchoring, because you could have wasted your own ad spend and then your leads valuable time if they even choose to reach out, just to find out that the fit is completely off. Yeah, price transparency is big. It's 2026 and there's still so many websites that don't have any indication of what something is gonna cost. Yeah. And I am. a range. Totally, there's so many options for it. Give a range, give an estimated amount,, I had a client once who did, who really did truly have a very custom package. And while I think she could have, productized it slightly, , she did. Custom proposals for every single one of the people that came into her business. And that was important to her. But what we did was just like you'd see like a testimonial slider. We created like expectation slider, let's say, and it was like. Because everything is so bespoke. Like it can be difficult to give like an exact price range of what working with me would be like. Here are a few examples of, client,, engagements that I've had to see if you could see yourself in these shoes. And she shared , let's just say a shorter term, , engagement, like a longer term engagement one that was very intense and one that was very like, just like touch base, let's say. And that helped people say , oh, now I get why there's. Such, a vast range., Because she's showing me like, so there's really no excuse because I think there's a lot of ways that you can do it. It's just most of the time calling people out here, people don't do it'cause they don't necessarily know what their prices are or they're still playing with, . Prices versus audience. So they might, , get on discovery calls, feel people out in general of what the people are looking for, and then try to give them a package that is within that person's budget versus presenting a package that is the offer amount, , and adjusting it if necessary. Right? Like taking some inclusions out or adding things to it. So sometimes I think it's just. Um, insecurity or fear that drives not putting the pricing there, but I think that's definitely hurting the bottom line, especially if you are paying money to get people to that page. Yes. I have a client currently who we are struggling with that and they are resisting some price transparency in place, but I will almost guarantee that when we do it will improve things. Yeah. find that wild, right? Because it's , as the business owner, you are willing to spend money to bring people in, but you're not necessarily willing to put how much money it costs to work with you like. Besides just in general, like fear or not necessarily having prices dialed in yourself for your business, do you think that there's anything else driving that? I think fear is probably the big one, not wanting to. Potentially lose a lead Mm-hmm. too expensive. Um, or being held to a certain amount, Yeah. I say, Hey, you know, you can do a starting at or a range, or typically in this amount is invested, that sort of thing. I know there was also way back in the day of like sales theory or process where you didn't give the price until you were on the call so that you could, Yeah. Show your value and blah, blah, blah. So I think there's some of that that. Yeah. lingers, to that. Yeah, local don't listen to that advice. Anyone. And this is exactly why I would like to have like my quarterly reminder here that repelling people is actually a kindness that you can do. We do, we're talking about ads and I've mentioned SEO. Those are all attraction purposes. Yeah, I know that. The biggest thing that you can do for your audience is attract the right people and repel the wrong people. So if you put a price there and yeah, you maybe you're a little nervous to start committing to it, but if someone looks at that and they're like, holy crap, $10,000, because they were assuming it would be like 900 or a thousand. Mm-hmm. just did you, both of you a service you as the business , and that potential client because it was not a right fit. So , be less afraid of losing people because the, , it sounds more woo woo than expected, but like the more people that you like, push away and make it clear that they're not the right fit, the more opportunity for better fit people to actually come into your world and commit because. They're like, oh, $10,000. That's great. That's really what I was expecting. So they feel like there's no hidden costs. There's nothing that they have to worry about because you are transparent in the early part of that relationship, maybe before you guys have ever even spoken. And they're more willing to jump right in on , and move forward in the process because they feel like you're being honest with them from those early days. Yeah, it's the kinder thing to do too. No one wants to get on a call and then, find out, oh, I can't even afford this., . It's not a good feeling. So it's also the kinder thing to do. It's just to be transparent, and honest with people from the jump. Well, and I just to quickly add onto that too, a lot of the times that I hear complaints from people, especially in the service industry, let's say wedding photographers,, their issue is that they are. Booked or , they're mostly booked in their business, but maybe the client fit's just not right or,, or quite simply, they love to make more money, but they are booked. So what, what do they do to grow their business? I'll tell you exactly what it is. Your website sucks. You haven't made it very clear exactly what the packages include or let's say what the actual pricing is. So while there are tons of weddings every single year, just even in just the country that we're in right now, and there are, that means tons of potential clients that could come into your business. They're looking at 15, 20 wedding photographers websites, and of those 15 or 20, I guarantee probably just two or three have pricing or clear information. So if you are, even if you are doing so, so, so well in your business, you could be doing better because if you make that pricing clear, all of those people who are like. Maybe reaching to work with you or the people who are re removing inclusions because the budget is too high. So they say would you be willing to like lower your price if we don't do an engagement session or whatever. All of those things are happening that they're not, they're not making enough room for better clients to come in or higher engagements or, just more money because the messaging's a little unclear. The pricing's not specific. And I definitely find people in industries like the home contractors,, photographers, yeah, creatives. They might even be willing to spend that ad money to bring people into their world, but they're still bringing in a lot of people who could be tire kickers or who could just not be the perfect fit clients for them. Business can improve by a clearer message, clearer calls to action, price transparency, , and all these things that we talked about today. Yeah. All right, well, Olivia, you, did we miss anything? I don't think so. I think now we finally covered everything. Right? Basically, everyone get your stuff in order before you start paying for ads, and then when you are ready to pay for ads. Google Ads specifically, Yes. I, I've got a girl for you. She's right here on the show. All her information is gonna be in the show notes so you know how to check out her business to stay in touch. And she comes highly recommended. We've worked on a couple of clients. She's actually referred a couple of my favorite clients to me. So people, like working with her and she gets a high recommendation from me. So that's it. Thanks for staying and listening to us today. Thanks for being here, Olivia. Thanks for having me.