When (and Why) to Revise Your Published Book with Jodi Brandon

Here's something nobody tells you when you publish your first book: you're probably going to need to update it. Maybe not right away, but at some point, your industry will change, your expertise will evolve, or technology will make entire chapters obsolete—and you'll have a choice to make.

Jodi Brandon from Write Publish Market is back on the podcast today, and this time we're talking about something most authors don't plan for: revising a book after it's already published. 

Jodi just released the third edition of her book (also titled Write Publish Market!), and she's getting honest about what prompted each revision, how to decide between updating your existing book versus writing a new one, and why treating your book like a "working document" is actually the smartest business move you can make.

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EPISODE 182.
Read the show notes and view the full transcript here: https://erinollila.com/revise-a-published-book-jodi-brandon/

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Get to know our guest expert, Jodi Brandon

Jodi Brandon is a book publishing strategist and coach for business owners and leaders, and the founder of Jodi Brandon Editorial. Jodi has used her 20+ years experience in book publishing to partner with 850+ business owners, leaders, and CEOs to write, publish, and market a book to use as a marketing asset within their business ecosystem. She is the author of Write.Publish.Market., 3rd Edition and the host of the Write Publish Market podcast.

Want more of this great publishing info we've been talking about? Then buy Jodi's updated book here.

To learn more about working with Jodi, visit her website and listen to her podcast. Then, connect with her on LinkedIn and Instagram. 

Here's the info on your host, Erin Ollila
Erin Ollila believes in the power of words and how a message can inform – and even transform – its intended audience. She graduated from Fairfield University with an M.F.A. in Creative Writing, and went on to co-found Spry, an award-winning online literary journal.

When Erin’s not helping her clients understand their website data or improve their website copy, you can catch her hosting the Talk Copy to Me podcast and guesting on shows such as Profit is a Choice, Mindful Marketing, The Power in Purpose, and Business-First Creatives.

Stay in touch with Erin Ollila, SEO website copywriter:
• Learn more about working with me or just book a strategy session to get started right away
• Visit Erin's website to learn more about her business, services, and products

Transcript

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Welcome back to the podcast, Jody. I hope that we can have a conversation about how to know when you're ready for an additional book or how do you know if you should take the book that you've already created and create. Updated version of that book, Uh because that's something you've done recently. Correct. I just released uh this fall the third edition of Right Publish Market and it was honestly long overdue Um so I will like let's start there When to revise right So sometimes Okay. just want as an author you wanna revise you want to like maybe you worked with like a a new dream client and you wanna get that you know case study client story into the book like pull something else out Maybe there's you know you just wanna update some statistics Something like that Sometimes something changes in your industry And that was the case with me um that sort of dictated You know like Amazon MA had made some changes and a lot of business owners specifically are pulling themselves away from third party sellers and distributors in general but Amazon specifically and they changed their KDP programs So a lot of the even the language I used in the book just simply like those things didn't exist anymore So you know that's obviously not what I that's not making me look like an expert in my industry So something like that So for me it was two big things two big changes in the industry Amazon fatigue and ai And both of those things needed to be overhauled so that means you know a new addition So here we are Yeah, so you are forced. The answer is you are forced to create an updated version. It was like, what do you have planned for this year? Scrap it. honestly it Get back to the drawing board. last year or the year before even But I'm glad that I waited because you know we know even more about AI today and how people can ethically use it you know for efficiency in the book writing publishing and marketing process Spoiler alert it's not the writing so yeah I'm glad the timing worked out well Right, because even if you had ideas of things you might have updated so that they could be a little bit more current or, maybe more like you said. You had a client you would really like to incorporate like a case study into the draft, you would've then been in the situation when you were like, okay. A lot has actually changed now between the publishing and ai and now I'm, I had ideas on how I'd like to update it, but now truly there's content that is outdated and if I don't update it, it's not, I'm not doing a service to my audience. I try to Yeah. I work with people one-on-one I try to tell them think of the book as you know yes it's out there but it's still you know like a working document that can be updated and probably for most business owners will need to be updated at some point to to remain relevant to remain accurate you know for you to be able to continue using it within your business the way you want to I mean, it it, am I a jerk for saying like that same thing goes via your website, everyone, like I, I think we fully expected me to do something like that at at least once in this episode, but I think people think it's ending, like you've done it, it's over, and now you move on. And that's not the case for either of the two things that we're talking about. bigger things in your business Right You know your signature courses I mean I would assume not gonna stay exactly the same Your website y Yeah A book Yeah Well, I think, we're brought up in popular culture on things like fiction and books that can stand the span of time. So it's tricks us into believing, you know, like you write Cinderella once and then you leave it as is. However, like I actually have two arguments there. One,, Cinderella is fiction, right? So that is a story in most of us that have businesses when we're writing books for our businesses and books based on our thought leadership, they're often nonfiction, which does expand. It does grow. It does change. It can be added to, so that's very different from a fictionalized story. But the second argument here is while Cinderella has not been rewritten. Other people have written like hundreds of other people, thousands of other people have rewritten the CI Cinderella story through a different lens. So yeah, it's still being rewritten technically. business you evolve as a human right So of course it stands that your Mm. is going to evolve services are going to evolve your products are going to evolve So and your book is no different just because I think we have a lot of us this you know sort of like idealized version of like I'm an I have you know like What's the name of the dad and the Lion King like holding up Simba Oh yeah. Mufasa. Is it Mufasa? Yeah. In the circle. gonna I'm not The circle wants of life. know what I'm it's like this idealized thing we have to as business owners for it to work for we have to you know like pull back the curtain and think of it as you know just another service or Yeah. And which I, I mean if you want me to, I very rarely do this, like, because I truthfully very rarely do this, but if you'd like to know something that I felt a little snobby about in the business world, and I have to preface this by reminding people that I came from the creative writing literary world. I have my own literary journal. I have an MFA in writing. All I did for like a billion years of my life was study the craft of writing. So then I come into this business world, and this is early like, I dunno, 20 16, 20 17, and everyone was writing these books and I was like, what? Like who, what is going on? Like, who are you people? Like what do you even know about writing a book? Okay, fast forward to today. All I can say about that is one. Good for them, right? Like getting something out there. But two, if you think about the world in 2016, maybe 2017, and you fast forward to now, I think we'd all assume that that business owner has evolved and grown themselves in their business within their expertise with what they've learned from their audience and their clients or customers. And it only then makes sense that whatever they produced. Almost 10 years ago is now going to be updated. Like we would think it would be a disservice if they didn't. So that even time, right? Like even like L lived experience, maybe it's not that fancy client and maybe it's not tech changing or tools changing, but maybe it's just that you want to adjust your perspective. Maybe like mention that something that you thought was like a. Like a sure thing is more of a, we will see how it goes thing, you know, and, and why. Um, but the rest of the content within that book could be really high quality and you know, something you really stand by. So instead of scrapping it all and writing like this is the opposite of book number one, you then just bring in that new perspective and make those adjustments. mean right we start I mean Mm-hmm. everybody who a book I assume has some sort of file somewhere of changes that they wanna make I mean I already have you know high I'm holding up my like highlights throughout my book of sentences that I'm like ugh I Oh no. Oh no. Don't do that to yourself. do that. I'm a Mm-hmm. forever and Um but the chance to do it right And then it Mm-hmm. pulling thing you know you know the whole sweater is unraveled recreating I? not great Yeah, sometimes you know like it does it to do that sort of thing especially you know Yeah Like maybe you a different perspective on something that you've given you know line advice on You definitely wanna update that because you wanna give the truths Representation of yourself thoughts are what you what you believe the way you teach what you teach all of those things especially as a business owner thought leader CEO et cetera you're using your book in a very different way than most professional authors are So if you're not being true to you and who you are and what you stand for and your business stands for gonna come across when somebody there's gonna be a disconnect Then when somebody reads that book And take let's let's say they take that next step of booking a call with you or purchasing one of your other like higher price products something like that There's a total disconnect and that's then you've got a whole Yeah. Speaking of how these types of individuals are treating their book, different than, than maybe a traditional author would. Let's stay here for a second.'cause I think that brings up the question of whether you create a body of work or whether you update the work that you've already created. Because if people are reading your content in, in order to get to know you, to build that trust, to determine whether or not you have that like particular expertise that they need, do you think that there's a pro or a con to continuing to adjust one's work or to adding to that work? on how you've structured that book I'm just gonna Mm-hmm. book as an I know it the best right So my book Write Publish Market could easily be Three separate books right It could be a deep dive into the writing a deep dive into the publishing a deep dive into the marketing the way I'm using it in my business it doesn't make sense to do that It makes sense for the more overview style give you an idea of are the things that I know about and teach about Um think it really kind of Yeah. on how you're your business which is the most foundational piece that you need to identify before you do anything else Anyway Erin Mm-hmm. Maybe you wanna grow the speaking arm of your business So that might make sense Then for you to take a topic that you speak about maybe a key maybe you do keynote speeches something like that and do a deep dive on that for a book And then that's not necessarily A traditional business book that's different from that how to then you you've got you know sort of an open entry to do a a second book So I think you can make it work in different ways I think figuring out that foundational you know what's your goal with this book And then what do you want readers to do when they're is sort of like one A one um because that's the sweet spot you wanna find right You wanna find out what your goals are How you're gonna use it in your business with what readers will be looking for and then find that sweet spot and that sort of you know really helps you shape what the book is going to be what it's going to look like Which just side plug here. That's why working with someone like Jody is a really smart idea. If you are not very familiar with the publishing world, because you have that expertise. Built into all of the work you've done with clients the entire time you've run your business, to be able to kind of help people make those decisions for themself on which route to take. But when you were talking it, it brought up so many ideas in my head, because originally I thought, well, our conversation today is going to be take one book. And, uh, like edit it or create like a new body of work on a slightly different topic or somewhat like close topic. But what got me thinking when you were talking was the idea of like pulling pieces out. Because again, you know, if you are doing a speaking tour, you know, like for example, I, I work in marketing, but in marketing I do SEO conversion copy, right? Like content creation and. It can be tough to talk about those three things, and this is not the best book example, but what I could do, let's say if I'm on an SEO speaking tour and my book is a generalized marketing for a small business book, I could, if I had enough content and I had maybe like a specific bus business goal attached, I could create. SEO standalone book. And you know, I think there's even, uh, it good reasons someone might wanna do that too. But I wasn't even thinking about like pulling a string from one book to create another book when we started talking. Um, which may or may not be a good idea for the listeners. mean I think about the topic too I mean marketing topics are tricky sometimes just because things change so fast they don't change that Yeah. the book publishing world So time um Yeah, but I don't see a lot of marketing books honestly is because Ag I a hundred percent agree with that. Mm-hmm. If you're versus the timeline is just so Mm-hmm. it is with Yeah. that by the time the book much has changed Mm-hmm. mean I yeah I mean Oh my. Yeah. Well, even in the amount of time it takes to write, nevermind even publish, like I think about the past, maybe year and a half to two years, , with, SEO specifically. It was, it was a pretty like oiled wheel for a long time. Like everyone, yeah, there was a lot of like ups and downs and newsworthy stories of like, Google told us this doesn't matter, but now it matters so much. Right? Like, and like pay attention to this new acronym. But for the grand scheme of things, everything was pretty status quo. Enter AI and now there's so many different spokes to like. Hook, like push at, right? Like there's the idea that there's, you can get search answers from LLMs. There's the idea that like AI can help you do your SEO. There's the idea of like AI writing and all of these different things that had, I even started writing. At the period of time when AI really came out, every single thing that I would have written, , well, let me caveat that 90% of what I probably would've written would've needed to be scrapped. 10% of it, which has always been true, is that you do SEO the same way by following the same best practices, by just doing pretty human, authentic things within your writing. But. It's not that easy when you've written a book and you're putting your, like your expertise into it because it's your way of looking at things and outside influences really impact that. I'm not one of these like let's write a book in a weekend Kind of people Mm-hmm. a big if you are a fairly writer naturally even if you're organized Mm-hmm. have tons of as a business owner it's a big project There's a lot of moving pieces Huge. And it's Mm-hmm. I session recently and This potential client said to me it's just so many words I was like it's Yes it is. words Um that I Um I mean I have ways to talk about that that make it seem less overwhelming but Sure. like it is Mm-hmm. undertaking in knowing that you're gonna be constantly on that hamster wheel of revision doesn't make Yeah. It doesn't, but I think it rightfully weeds out the people who should be writing books and the people who shouldn't, because I don't think you have to be a natural born writer to write a book. I also don't think like you need to be like someone who has come up with this one idea that no one's ever thought of before. Not at all. I think a very average, ordinary person could be in. Excellent book author. However, they just need to be committed. They need to do the work, they need to do the revisions. They need to be able to receive feedback, then take the feedback and parcel out what is right for them and what is not, and follow through with that and then end up in this exact situation of what we're talking about and having to decide. Do I leave? Like when they're thinking about making revisions, do I leave it? Is it okay to exist in this form or. Do I need to revise the book that I've created? You know, and I, I think bringing this right back to the comment I made about being snobby, like, you know, a decade ago when I entered this business world, I think it truly was the attitude of writing a book quickly or just getting thoughts out there, which is what drove me absolutely insane.'cause I was like, y'all, I just spent three years in a master's program where I spent an quite a lot of money to get this master's degree. And I studied with people who have the first Oprah's book club, person, right? Like people who have won millions of, not millions. That is such an exaggeration. A lot of awards poet laureates, and I'm like, and you are thinking you're gonna get this book written in two months. Like, whoa. Cool. I That's wild. You know, like it was just really hard for me. And I will say everyone, so I'm not terrifying you there. I think there is a difference from creative writing and writing a business book, and you might have a, um, this is the wrong word, but like, maybe there's some more easy, easier to follow formulas or, um, templates. Not templates definitely the wrong word, but do you get what I mean? Like. There's less of a pressure to create from scratch, um, as there is in the creative writing world, because you can set yourself up for some nice outlines with nonfiction and follow through on those outlines. But I still thought like, wow, you have some. You know, in yourself to think you're getting this project done in two months because I'm, I'll stress out for you for two whole months. Um, do you know, you might need to revise this like 40 times before you publish it. Uh, but I think that that. If you are even thinking about writing your first book, nevermind revising or, or adding another book to that. I think maybe my humble opinion, not in the publishing world anymore, but my opinion is to embrace revision because I think that makes the most successful writer. You know? And then like you mentioned, once that book's published, it's not over. So you, you also have to keep like embracing revision. that a lot of lot of people don't think about enough and take seriously enough in my opinion Um a lot I I talk with a lot of those Oh I can have done in three months No you can maybe have a first draft done in three months Um I don't know that we're you know I mean there there many I used to work Strictly as a copy editor you would not believe the number of times when someone would turn in their manuscript I would see them post like on Instagram or uh Facebook back then probably you know like finish my manuscript to the editor tomorrow and I'm like no no Maybe like let's go through that a couple times before you pay for copy editing That is not going to serve you at all like Yes. Mm-hmm. give it a and then you go through it another time and then by the way go through it five more times after that Yeah. Especially with the rise of self-publishing which I am a huge proponent of particularly for business Same.. You've gotta really have solid material and you're not going to have it after just finishing that draft and then hitting send an hour later Yeah. day later Oh my gosh. Yeah. editor's in charge of making all the final decisions they're going to give you based on a not final version of your work it just it sense And I do think that that education piece is a huge part of what I try to do and what a lot of people you know who've come from the traditional publishing world and now work with Traditional authors self-publishing authors hybrid publishing authors all of that sort of you know take down some of those the gatekeeping walls that were common Yeah. publishing world just really have a clear understanding of what the process is and how long it could and should take Which is only fair, part of the problem is people see so much glitz and glamor online and they or they look again to, you know, famous fiction authors who are able to get a book out a year, or more. And it, they don't understand how. Different what their reality looks like compared to, , that individual's reality. Because even when it comes to , famous authors or authors that have traditional companies behind them, they might be writing in a series. That series might already be a hundred percent outlined. They may have multiple assistants. They're likely working with copy editors, content editors, . 18 different job roles that I'm not even remembering right now, and they're very much supported and it's very much already kind of self-contained for them. You are taking your ideas in your head, which are intangible, and you are creating something like an actual physical representation of your ideas.. And besides like you going out to finding a service provider, I'm gonna assume you don't have a built-in copywriter that you don't have a, a ton of executive assistant support. And if you do, that's helpful, but they are not trained in specific things . I always think about the fact that , my mom would read our, essays and stuff when we were in like high school or college, like look for grammar. Well, guess what I mean? I love this woman, but she is a, a nurse with psych training. Like she is not a copy editor and. I have advanced degrees in writing. I have studied grammar for most of my life, and let me tell you the second I walked away from like the creative writing and publishing world, I created my own grammar rules and only about 40% of them are actually real, like Chicago, MLA style. Nope. I have made them all up in my head and they will permanently be my rules that are probably wrong. I just can't. I can't make that part of my brain work anymore. So, while you may have people in your life that could help, that could give feedback, they're not always the right people unless you are bringing trained individuals , like you in to be able to do help you do that work. and the book publishing language is different from you know you just said Chicago and MLA right Chicago Manual of Mm-hmm. the what we use in the book Publishing Industry The magazine and journal world uses AP Set I I talk about this when it comes to A PA is a different one as as well. right It is for yeah. And MLA is what the, oh, I forgot the m the language arts. Oh God. I'm not, I'm not modern language arts. Yeah. Thank you. My, I'm in Massachusetts, so my brain's just like, it has to be Massachusetts. The Massachusetts Language Arts, but yeah. I mean I tell I have college age nieces and nephews and they'll ask me to look at a paper for them and I'm like I speak Chicago That's all I speak So that's probably not what your paper Mm-hmm. the glaring stuff but a lot of like the Mm-hmm. Um but I talk about this with business owners um formatting their books because they want to use They wanna use the designer that they use in their business because they know their brand so well et Mm-hmm. But book type setting is uh that's a skill and it is as a business owner CEO thought leader you want your book to look the same as a traditionally published book on the shelf So if you are using somebody that's using you know like website design style Your book is gonna stand out like a sore Yes. I say all the time readers might not know what's but they know something's not Mm-hmm. And I think this is especially true with design, especially like granted, like the words are the most important. However, it's that like it's the second you land on a homepage kind of thing. If someone looks at your book cover and they are not convinced or they think something is off, whether they know what that is, if they think it looks like immature, slightly. Wow, you have now not just lost a potential buyer, but their, um, opinion maybe of your expertise could even potentially have gone down slightly. So, you know, when it comes to making these investments, I think it's. It's, you need to make wise ones and remember that there are ways we can cut corners to save money, but I actually really think when it comes to the book cover, I don't know, I guess I'm just a snob. I have, I will tell you, any 170 something episodes in, and I don't think I've been snobby about almost. Anything. Okay. And I will, I truly say I, I, in general in life, I'm really not a snobby ish person, but I think about the idea of being a kid, being a young adult, being now a old adult. And I think about all of my book buying decision. That whole time, even as a child, I was particular about these kind of things. I remember Babysitters Club books changed their style at one point, and I was like, what the heck is happening here? Yeah. And again, whatever, I mean, I was in at that point, like you weren't gonna convince me not to like it, but I just remember being like, um, who made this decision? You know, so. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. I was invested also Yeah. was too I you better believe I complained about I mean, again, I'm also not the biggest Amazon proponent, but like if you have Amazon Prime, you get one free book a month. Do you know what I'm talking about? Like free reads or something like that? Thank you. Yeah. So in that Amazon world, you get an email, it says pick your book. How do you think people pick that book? First it's by the cover you judge it by your eyes and then you decide what you wanna click into and read more about. As a business owner or an expert or a creative, however you describe yourself, you put so much time and energy and effort and money into getting that book published. There's so much writing on that click to find out about your book. with it cover Mm-hmm. especially you're so right and you've gotta understand the market a little bit as an author I always say you've gotta put on that like professional author Mm-hmm. cause I get it there's Mm-hmm. business owners and experts Right The I'm not an author I'm a business owner writing a book I'm a thought leader writing a book It's a temporary I got it But you have to either have someone on your team doing this Yeah. or you need to understand the and make sure that your cover is the very most important I mean I work with the word but I'm saying the cover and the cover art are they're so so so important and they can make or break anybody buying your book now you gonna not put your book on Amazon Of course not put your book I what your sales strategy is put your book on Amazon cause it's just extra potential sales for you But if people are not seeing your book and falling in love with that cover gonna do a disservice to you your book and ultimately your business So speaking again about like the investment that we're putting into our books, when we decide again, if we are going to update a book that we've already written, I think investment probably plays a large role. Would you say that someone has to weigh like the cost of updating compared to the amount of revisions maybe that needs to get done within the book. Does that factor in, or is there less of a cost factor? Because most of the book is already created. much you're updating and what those updates look Okay. know if you want a new cover versus just change you second edition third edition to your Mm-hmm. So that's what I did for the second edition was just cover but add the words second edition on the front For the third edition we changed it up altogether It's different art on the front different color scheme So yeah that's obviously a much bigger investment And then Are you dropping in a new chapter and taking out a chapter then you probably are only paying for copy editing for that chapter which is great If you are making smaller changes throughout the book then really the whole book needs to be copy edited again So that's a different it is a different type of investment and it really just I mean I hate to pass the buck but it really depends on what this particular update is going to look like Yeah, no, that, I mean, that makes lot of. Sense . And again, I think that we all take that back to what you said in the beginning is you can make these decisions by knowing what the end goal is here, like if the end goal is, this is a, a heavy seller, as an entry point for your business, that people come, they, they have this low price offer. They, feel more confident and then they, they work with you or they reach out, to , book a call, whatever it is. Cool If it's doing so well that, creating. Like edits and updating it is a smart financial investment. Absolutely. That you just step in and do that. If the goal here is that you maybe start your life as a public speaker, , using the foundation of the book to hold you up, then I think you have to think then of like, is it already doing that job? Right? If it's not. Well, let's go back to like your ideas of being a public speaker. Is it you wanna have, one thing you stand by? Maybe it is that you pull something out and you create a new book. Is it that you just need to make more, serious edits to this book? Okay, cool. But. All of these things, and I'm just pulling, , made up examples here, but all of these choices, these business decisions and these business goals, I think really affect these decisions that we're talking about. smart business owners and leaders and experts get I say all the time the money is not in Yeah. And they get that So that's actually one of the added This time I worked with a different um a different team altogether on the third edition And I was saying you know she she the typesetter follows me on social media and she said I hear you saying all the time you know do the math She's like what if we you know like took some of those examples you have in your text and pull them out and make some kind of a little icon or whatever And just you know have that little header it says do the math and then set them up like a math problem instead of having like instead of using words to explain it And I was like that's brilliant I wish I would've thought of it but you Susie of Creative Blueprint Design and so we have a uh throughout the book for all different you know all different pieces But one of them is if you're selling your book for $10 on Amazon and you sell a hundred books Great If you sell those a hundred books off of your own website and you know offer an upsell to a $40 masterclass You've got a $10 book and a $40 masterclass Now every one of those sales is $50 instead of $10 you've gotta figure all of that stuff and you actually get more of the $10, right? Yeah. Are way better than traditional publishing I'm not gonna lie but they're still taking their cut They're still taking their cut and not sharing customer data with you the customer data I get from Amazon is oh somebody somebody from Brazil bought the book this month Great I wonder who like I sure would love that person's name and email so Yeah. know see if I have anything else appropriate for them not getting data to use With anything Mm-hmm. Amazon and these other third party sellers So there's a movement sell directly for business owners which has I mean proven fruitful for me many of my clients and lots of other business owners that I just know peripherally or by following them you can really increase those numbers exponentially and make back your return on Yeah, this reminds me of something you're gonna think. I'm kind of crazy for the way that I'm jumping here, but I remember years and years ago when summits and like online conferences really became a bigger thing. And so many of my clients were like applying to speak to them for the first time and they put so much effort into their talk, right? So it's like they applied, they got accepted, . they went, they did the talk. It was lovely, it was awesome. And there was no true follow up to what happens next. And that is exactly what happens with a book because if you give a speech in a summit and you do not have an actual ask or direction for that like viewer to take it. The onus is on them to make a choice on whether they have the time or energy to invest learning more about you. Same thing with a book. You buy a book, you give all of this great content out, and you both cases you do it well. Both cases. The reader or the viewer is excited. They love everything about it, but it is so much. Of a job for them to have to make the choice on whether they are going to Google your website, find that one tiny link in the back of your book or the front of your book to reach out, send an email. And that often takes a lot of work and it sounds so silly, but it makes sense if we think of how hard it is sometimes to get the clients who love working with you to fill out like a three question testimonial form. and a lot of that is, again, following up, just having good systems. It is not hard, but everyone has so many things on their mind, so many things, stressing them out so many things to do or to check off a like checklist. So when you do a speech, when you write a book and you , you do a good job and you just get excited that something's gonna come from it. It. It's a lot harder for something to come from it if you don't direct the reader or the viewer to do something. So when we're writing business books, I think that there has to be a real strong kind of call to action of something within the book. Your example of why it's so important to like host your own book is because you've given that direction. They buy that like workshop. They're gonna go to the workshop. In doing the purchasing from you, they get put on your list where you are nurturing them regularly and kind of like tap on them on the shoulder to be like," Hey, remember that really exciting thing I told you about in chapter four? Like, huh, don't forget, like, let's, let's do more of that together." So I, I don't know, I think that's a pretty vital, strategy that maybe you need to factor in before you even do the writing or the rewriting. Hmm. right It's mean think people wanna think like I again that idolized you know holding up Simba like the book world is so cool and mysterious and all these things think of it as this like creative endeavor know like a literary journal Like think of it as another tool for you to share your knowledge stop thinking of it Like oh I'm gonna be an author Oh I'm writing Yeah. Yeah. really do the same things that you need to do like you create a buyer journey for your ideal clients And then you know work with your copywriter to create those email sequences and all of that You need to do the same thing for your Yeah. You need to think of it just like any other product or like you know once you've got it all mapped out then go back to thinking " oh it's so cool that I'm writing Mm-hmm. It Yeah. But you still owner first and Mm-hmm. and this is a marketing asset for you you know And your goal is not probably some vanity metric So keep your goal in mind as you're you know this customer journey map and how the book is gonna fit into your bigger business ecosystem And then a lot of these things fall into place And again I'm an overwhelming project I'm not saying there are not a lot of moving parts There are but it once if you have a firm foundation And have thought through a lot of these things the rest of it is a lot easier Yeah, and I, I, I love what you just said there.'cause again, it, it goes the romanticizing of it. Think about any type of business book you've ever read, or business blog, even if you want to take it. So like, just the shortest piece of content you have. The job of that piece of content is not to make you cry, to make you fall in love with the characters. The job is to inform you, and maybe you're bringing in a little bit of those emotive pieces, like lift you up. Or inspire you, right? So if you take the pressure off yourself to think that like you have to create this thing that is transforming a person, like a piece of fiction or poetry or something might do in a creative world, but instead you are, your job here is to inform those people because you have knowledge that is helpful. Then you will be successful, right? Like the pressure is off, which is one humongously. Huge thing. Huge. I mean, I still struggle with this so bad. I like, I sit down to write a website. I've done this for 10, 12 years now, and I'm like, what do I even say? And I'm like, oh God, Erin, like I'm rolling my eyes at. Self, right? So it is, nothing is wrong with you if you feel that pressure, but if you can look really, truly, look at a business book from that perspective, it is not your job to give the reader like a life moving transformation. It is just your job to help inform them. And in the. Informing, right? You can give them aha moments. You can make them feel seen, and I think that's what any reader of a, of a business nonfiction book wants to know that they're not alone to know that like see possibility to, you know, learn something. And , taking that pressure off makes everything feel a lot more easier to do. polish and add in you know like some fancy pros course. that's what you want to do but like down that we need for whatever you've identified for that as the trans transformation Mm-hmm. you want your reader to have Let's make sure we're Yeah. Mm-hmm. Absolutely. And then on top of it Alright. And then bringing us back to the first second of this conversation as we, we sum up the end of this conversation and then you can always revise your book later, that is an option for you. Jody, thank you so much for coming today. I appreciate your time. And I think this kind of gives everyone a lot of great things to think about and help them decide if they have created something, how they can, , edit and adjust or move on and create something new. And if they haven't, it makes them maybe. I think we've given some people a permission to create their first book, knowing that in time if necessary, they can update as they go along. conversation.