In this rich and engaging episode, we meet Shuna Morelli, the creator of the Body-Mind Bridge Institute, and explore the fascinating interplay between natural healing, the body's wisdom, and the power of psychedelics for deep emotional and physical healing. Shuna shares her comprehensive journey, starting as a high school teacher, evolving into a licensed hypnotherapist and massage therapist, to ultimately founding the Body-Mind Bridge Institute. Through her journey and written work, including titles like 'What if Symptoms Are Your Friend?', Shuna advocates for tuning into and interpreting the body's signals as a pathway to healing. She delves into her evolution into a 'psychedelic doula,' guiding individuals through transformative experiences with psychedelic substances, emphasizing safety, preparation, and the honoring of ancient wisdom from indigenous cultures. The conversation weaves through personal healing stories, the integration of Body-Mind Bridge techniques with psychedelic experiences, and the critical role of approaching oneself and these powerful tools with intention, respect, and openness. Shuna's work illuminates a path towards self-discovery, healing, and ultimately, a deeper connection with the self and the universe.
00:00 Welcome to the Journey of Health and Vitality
01:01 Introducing Shauna Morelli: A Journey of Healing and Wisdom
08:04 The Power of Listening to Your Body
21:01 Exploring the Depths of Healing with Body-Mind Bridge
27:02 The Transformative Power of Inner Work
35:25 Understanding and Deactivating Survival Trances
39:00 Exploring Trauma Healing and Reconnection
40:16 The Power of Body, Mind, Bridge Sessions
43:47 The Journey to Psychedelic Guidance
47:55 The Psychedelic Renaissance: A New Era of Healing
01:04:24 Integrating Indigenous Wisdom and Psychedelic Medicine
01:07:30 Cultural Shifts and the Future of Healing
01:15:17 Preview of Next Week's Episode: Nervous System Regulation
In this rich and engaging episode, we meet Shuna Morelli, the creator of the Body-Mind Bridge Institute, and explore the fascinating interplay between natural healing, the body's wisdom, and the power of psychedelics for deep emotional and physical healing. Shuna shares her comprehensive journey, starting as a high school teacher, evolving into a licensed hypnotherapist and massage therapist, to ultimately founding the Body-Mind Bridge Institute. Through her journey and written work, including titles like 'What if Symptoms Are Your Friend?', Shuna advocates for tuning into and interpreting the body's signals as a pathway to healing. She delves into her evolution into a 'psychedelic doula,' guiding individuals through transformative experiences with psychedelic substances, emphasizing safety, preparation, and the honoring of ancient wisdom from indigenous cultures. The conversation weaves through personal healing stories, the integration of Body-Mind Bridge techniques with psychedelic experiences, and the critical role of approaching oneself and these powerful tools with intention, respect, and openness. Shuna's work illuminates a path towards self-discovery, healing, and ultimately, a deeper connection with the self and the universe.
00:00 Welcome to the Journey of Health and Vitality
01:01 Introducing Shauna Morelli: A Journey of Healing and Wisdom
08:04 The Power of Listening to Your Body
21:01 Exploring the Depths of Healing with Body-Mind Bridge
27:02 The Transformative Power of Inner Work
35:25 Understanding and Deactivating Survival Trances
39:00 Exploring Trauma Healing and Reconnection
40:16 The Power of Body, Mind, Bridge Sessions
43:47 The Journey to Psychedelic Guidance
47:55 The Psychedelic Renaissance: A New Era of Healing
01:04:24 Integrating Indigenous Wisdom and Psychedelic Medicine
01:07:30 Cultural Shifts and the Future of Healing
01:15:17 Preview of Next Week's Episode: Nervous System Regulation
Hello and welcome to the What Really Makes a Difference podcast. I'm your host, Dr. Becca Whittaker. I've been a doctor of natural health care for over 20 years and a professional speaker on health and vitality, but everything I thought I knew about health was tested when my own health hit a landslide and I became a very sick patient. I've learned that showing up for our own health and vitality is a step by step journey that we take for the rest of our lives. And this podcast is about sharing some of the things that really make a difference on that journey with you. So grab your explorer's hat while we get ready to check out today's topic. My incredible guest network and I will be sharing some practical tools, current science and ancient wisdom that we all need, no matter what stage we are at in our health and vitality. I've already got my hat on and my hand out, so let's dive in and we can all start walking each other home. I am so grateful to introduce you to our speaker, Shauna Marelli today. She is the creator of the body-mind bridge Institute, which does so much good for people. She also was previously a high school teacher. She's a licensed hypnotherapist and a licensed massage therapist. And what she did is combine that with her natural healing wisdom to create the body-mind bridge Institute. What its goal is, is to help people go within their deeper mind. For healing. She's written three books. The first is called. What if symptoms are your friend? And that was the line I heard her say that helped me know we were just going to be friends forever. Because I do think sometimes the body is trying to get your attention. I think our bodies do so many incredible things for us. And one of those things is deal with and store our trauma or the effects of our belief systems or our injuries, both psychic and physical. I learned from Shauna that our bodies hold those things as long as they can, until we get the resources to better deal with them. And to help them heal. Body-mind bridge is about helping that process. To be smoother, kinder, and ultimately that makes it faster. With less suffering required. She also wrote body-mind bridge and the self healing mind and her last non-fiction book was called survival trances, which if you have had much to do with trauma, And, you know, you kind of go in survival mode. You already know what a survival trans feels like. She also has done a lot of self healing work in traveling to other countries. To work with plant medicines or teachers. And with psychedelics before that all was super cool. So she's been working with this for a long time. She's a psychedelic doula now. Which is what she calls it. When she sits with people, as they are having their transformative experiences, to help them be safe and to be available with some of the deeper mind tools. Should they be requested?. As a side note to that, she also wrote a fiction book called 49 days, which is a super cool idea. It's a neuroanatomy scientist that goes into with a, that goes into researching psychedelics, or checking them out with a really questioning academic mind. And it's about what she learns and what she discovers. And I think that's super cool. Shanna lives in the Pacific Northwest in the United States, near the Mount Rainier national parks. And the best way I can really describe her is she is a person you would want to walk. In a forest with. When I think of her, I can even just feel my feet on a forest path. You know, those people, those rare people that are so comfortable to be next to where your whole self is welcome, and they're there with their selves and it can be quiet. Or it can be. Speaking, but either way. You're held in your okay. She's just one of the most empowering and healing people that I've ever met. So I am so excited to share with you Shauna. Morelli.
Track 1:Oh, I have been looking forward to sharing your work with the people in the audience, Shuna. Before we go into asking Shuna questions, I just want to share the story of how we met, if that's okay, quickly.
shuna_2_03-05-2024_111941:That's fun.
Track 1:So it was a few years ago and I had decided to get some coaching to become a professional speaker and we both ended up at the same event with Melanie Spring. She's an incredible speaking coach, because she doesn't, as she says, she doesn't want to train speaker robots. She wants you to help find your voice and then teach what you're intended to teach, how you are intended to teach it. So it was a fascinating experience to be there and have everyone be getting different directives and different pieces of advice for how we could bring our message out. Something about you that I thought was different is in the public speaking world, a lot of people are trying to, brand themselves and be louder and be bigger. And when we were playing the game to know everybody's names, we had to pick the first letter of their names to help give ourselves something to remember. And since your name was Shuna, We called you Shaman Shuna.
shuna_2_03-05-2024_111941:Yes,
Track 1:of the presence that you have with people. The part of the reason why I'm excited to bring this episode into life is to share that presence that you have with more than just me. And I know people in the audience will feel it as you are speaking to them and as you are speaking the truth. And I don't know that you are technically a shaman, but you have the feeling. of being in the presence of someone who is deeply grounded, deeply listening, and deeply there for the healing and the good of both yourself and the other person involved in the conversation. I respect that so much. So thank you for joining us.
shuna_2_03-05-2024_111941:Yeah. You're welcome. Thank you. Becca.
Track 1:What I heard you learning to speak about is actually what you now have written books about, and I am just so happy to see your work progressing because it's so valuable. So, I watched you learn how to give this speech. That was about how symptoms can be your friend. And I was in the back of the room preparing because I was going just a couple people after you, so I was reviewing my notes and trying to do the last minute things to not completely lose my mind from anxiety. And when I heard you start to speak, I slowed down and I just started to listen to what you were saying. And you were talking about symptoms or pain in different areas of our body being something that's trying to get our attention. And I followed the steps you talked about in your talk, just there, warming up to I'm warming up to speak, and I had had a pain in my hip for, I don't know, probably just over a year. And I had tried mashing it, I had tried massaging it, I had tried adjusting it, I had tried exercising it, I had tried shoving my fist in it and being frustrated with it.
shuna_2_03-05-2024_111941:Oh, no.
Track 1:the back of the room listening to you speak, I finally started just asking it what it was trying to tell me. And following some of the advice you gave me and it turned into just a beautiful experience for me about stability. I was able to see a picture in my mind of when this started and why, and how it related to my sense of security or stability or my loss of it. And I was in a very difficult time in my relationship at the time. And Yeah, you, you gave me a course correction, like a diversion of the water over into the arena of listening to myself instead of just trying to make things go away. So valuable. So can you tell me then, For people who maybe never have heard of your work or heard the phrase that the symptoms can be your friend I know that's your first book and I did see you can actually get that free as an e book if you go to your website So I'll put a link in that but can you explain why symptoms can be your friends, you know?
shuna_2_03-05-2024_111941:Oh, yeah, happy to. And by the way, thank you for that story. That was beautiful how you just did that spontaneously from the back of the room. That's pretty awesome.
Track 1:It's true. And it, you know, helped me not be sweating so hard to get ready to speak. So thank you again. Yep.
shuna_2_03-05-2024_111941:when we have, for example, chronic physical pain, and we go to all the doctors and they take, do the imagery and the docs come back and say, we're not sure what's going on, that type of thing where there isn't a diagnosis available for whatever is going on chronically. Often it's because Something inside our intelligent body, our bodies are so intelligent, and they're always trying to get our attention. And if they can't get our attention with emotional triggers or things like that, then the body will amp it up a little bit, and now you've got physical pain that you don't know what it is. And just like you did, that's a beautiful example. You tried all the physical approaches to this pain in your hip, and you thought, oh, well, maybe I'll just close my eyes and imagine myself talking to that physical pain and see if it has anything to tell me. And that's what you did, and it told you something about, you know, instability. Whatever it was that it told you, that's the message that your intelligent body was trying to tell you, was trying to pass on to you. And so once your outer mind, your conscious mind, heard that, the pain dissipated. And so in that way, we can think of our symptoms as helpful, as messengers, as a friend. And I don't know about you, Becca, but you know the way I was raised about symptoms is probably the way most people were. First of all, symptoms are only physical. I had never heard of an emotional symptom before. They're just physical, and they're bad, and when you get a symptom you take a pill or you go to somebody to fix you. I mean, that's how I was trained. And so doing a 180 on that perspective is considering the fact that we have, all of us, All of us, if there's 8 billion people on the planet, all of us have some trauma, all of us had some rough patches along the way that created emotion in us that couldn't escape the body. In other words our emotions, the whole gamut of our emotions those are, those are types of energy. Emotion is energy. The fear, the joy, it's all energy. And our bodies are designed to feel it and then feel it again. In the best case scenario, to actually express it out of the body. So if we're angry, we get to be angry, we get to feel it in our body, and then we get to express it however we do. You know, punching a punching bag, or yelling into the air, something. And if that anger can't be expressed for whatever reason, it stays in there, and over time it will create some, usually, emotional symptom first. Like anxiety, or depression, or OCD. It's a whole gamut of emotional things. And if we don't respond to that, if we don't know how to, because there's I have so much compassion. Most people don't have a clue that they can do this, that they're capable of this. But if we aren't able to listen to that thing that happened back then, that made us really sad back then, and now we're in full blown depression and taking pills for it, if we're not able to listen to that, then our body will typically amp up, as I said, and create some physical something. Not because we're being punished or because our symptoms are bad, but because our deeper mind is trying to get in contact with our surface mind, our conscious mind, because something, information needs to be passed on to help us.
Track 1:Hmm. I love that because information needs to be passed on. to help us. So first of
shuna_2_03-05-2024_111941:the conscious mind. yes.
Track 1:mind. So first of all, I think sometimes it can be scary to learn how to do that. Not because I think healing is scary, but because it takes a different approach. I realized I had to be willing to be the lady that was talking to myself. Like I just full blown going on a walk, talking to myself, like I used to thought only the crazy people did. And then I just joined their ranks and it turns out. The people willing to listen to their own body's information can have an easier time healing. I think I was afraid for a while to listen to what was happening because A, I might not know what to do about it. B, I didn't want to just stay in the drudgery muck of why I was sad or why I was afraid. I'd rather just move on to this moment. Thank you very much. We're done. Oh, those are probably the main reasons why I didn't want to. But also I didn't know how to really listen with respect to myself. I think I was afraid of what was hiding in the depths and wasn't yet quite certain that I could deal with it. But you said We were leaving that event and going back to the airport and on the bus. You said a phrase that helped me be brave. I was right in the process of beginning to learn to listen to my body when we met. And a phrase that you said is kind of my, been my guiding star. You said that the body holds on to trauma that we don't know how to deal with or upset or, or, you know, energy and motion, that emotion our body holds on to trauma until we have the support of the body. or tools to be able to deal with it as, as a gift, right? It holds on to as much as it can
shuna_2_03-05-2024_111941:Yes.
Track 1:give us a little time. And so I started to think after you said that when something came up, okay, so if my body's held onto it as long as it could, and it's presenting now, that must mean there's something about the state that I am in now. That means I have some tool to help myself through this. It doesn't mean it's coming up just to make me feel terrible all the time or just to make it so I can't stop thinking about that thing that happened when I'm 6 or 8 or 12 or 23. It means it's time and I have some resource available to help me. Now whether that's just like a belief system that makes it easier or whether it's the truth, either way, it empowers me to be able. To look. And it started a conversation of trust, I guess, with my body. That it doesn't come up with more than I can handle at the time. And that when it feels really overwhelming, like you mentioned, big anxiety, or big depression, or OCD, or big anger, those were all things that were super scary for me. And what I've learned is, as I've learned to trust my body to bring it up in pieces,
shuna_2_03-05-2024_111941:Mm hmm.
Track 1:pieces I can handle. And then I get success with tuning into that and having an experience where I come around to more integration, more love, more presence within myself. And that gives me more capability the next time if something comes up, that's scary. Is
shuna_2_03-05-2024_111941:Yes! Ha ha ha ha!
Track 1:experienced it with other clients and people that you teach?
shuna_2_03-05-2024_111941:that's beautiful. Some people do it in steps like that as they are capable or as they are become more aware. Yeah.
Track 1:Mm hmm.
shuna_2_03-05-2024_111941:Let me give you an example. If something happened when you were six years old and you weren't able to express it, now you're still holding on to that. And that part of you has frozen or shut down. It was, It's a beautiful thing that happened because we now know the central nervous system is what steps in and freezes that part of us, that part of us, when we were six years old. And it's supposed to be temporary, right? That shutting down is supposed to be a survival thing. So that can get us to adulthood.
Track 1:Oh, pause there. Cause what you're going to say is beautiful, but I do want to say so it can get us to adulthood.
shuna_2_03-05-2024_111941:Yeah,
Track 1:have had so much judgment for myself for times when there was trauma and I froze in, I'm like, Becca, why didn't you fight? Why didn't you jump up? Why didn't you speak? Why didn't you save? Why didn't you do anything except for just pretend to be an airhead or pretend to be asleep or pretend you didn't know what was happening or just freeze? And what I've learned is so many people have that. And I was so angry at myself for the longest time, angrier than what anyone else had had done angry at myself for not protecting. And that I'm, I'm only interrupting to say because I've learned that's very, very common. So just like you do, you say a phrase that hits me. I'm just like, say it again. We freeze for very good reason so we can get to adulthood. And our body might hold that freeze until we can get to it
shuna_2_03-05-2024_111941:Until we're resourced.
Track 1:way, resourced way.
shuna_2_03-05-2024_111941:Yes. Until we have more life experience, etc. And, thank you for saying that. That's beautiful. And you know, now we're adults, and we know this thing happened, or maybe we totally forgot about it, but it keeps coming up, right? We keep getting triggered, and that six year old voice comes up and bothers us. With these triggers, and we were upset, we shove it back in, or we drink a six pack or whatever, however we do it, to deal with numbing it out. That's all most people know to do. But what it is actually trying to do is finish the trajectory out of the body. And we often use these words. We often say, Oh, that happened in the past. That happened a long time ago, why don't I just forget about it? Or people we, people who love us say, Honey, it didn't happen a long time ago, let it go. And they don't realize that if that part of us was frozen at age six, and it's still in there, it will continue to surface, and here's the piece, it's not in the past. Otherwise it wouldn't be in our face right now. is in the present time and accessible, accessible. And so it's like this six year old self who is still frozen inside and still afraid or still shamed, all the things, right?
Track 1:Yeah.
shuna_2_03-05-2024_111941:Pops into our, unexpectedly into our day and we get upset without it and shove it back down because we don't know what else to do.
Track 1:And because it comes at inconvenient times.
shuna_2_03-05-2024_111941:Yes.
Track 1:at work and someone that I need to be professional with is reminding me of something that happened when I was six years old, I'm trying to be 43, not six. Go away.
shuna_2_03-05-2024_111941:Yes. Mmhmm.
Track 1:talk about these parts. I'm wondering if we could go into a little bit about what you do. You talk about these parts of us that are six years old, or times where trauma may have happened or upset may have happened and we didn't get the energy all the way out because we couldn't. about them as though we kind of come around to find parts of ourselves. Those like little Becca at six years old or little Shuna at 12. I'm wondering how that is different or the same. as other therapy things I have worked with, like internal family systems where you've for those who may not be familiar with that, that's a common therapy technique or tool where you find, you know, different parts of yourself, parts of your internal family that make up yourself and, and begin to almost exchange a dialogue. So you can understand why those parts are there. Like the part that gets angry all the time, kind of like inside out, like the movie inside out. Your book, I mean, your work reminds me of that, but also it's different. Can you explain to me what you're going inside to feel or how you even go inside and what one might find? I know that's a big topic, but can you explain your work? Hmm. Yep. Perfect
shuna_2_03-05-2024_111941:An amazing thing naming all those parts that are in the basement. If people are, people know that work, they know what I'm talking about. So there's specific names for specific parts, and that really helps a person understand that they have all these parts. What is different in my approach is, and I don't think I've ever actually articulated this, I have a different perspective. Let's just say that we've got that each human being is a whole bunch of energy. We can even think of the pie diagram. All we have, all this energy available to us that is moving through our body. And as we're growing up, certain parts of that energy are shut down. And, aren't able to express, aren't able to be creative, to add to her creativity and so on. And so instead of having specific names of specific parts, it's like, okay, that six year old went through this thing. And now, to answer the second part of your question, how do we do that? I assist people to move from their outer mind, their conscious mind, hypnotherapy. But then, I only guide them. And I help them locate, now, once they're in their deeper mind, I help them locate, where is that child in the body? Where do they feel that part of themselves, that six year old? In their body. So it's very body centered. And I'll have them scan their body and they'll say, Oh, I feel that six year old in my, in my solar plexus. And while they're in their deeper mind, I guide them to move their awareness toward that discomfort. Toward that child, that part of them that is frozen. Not away from it, but toward it. And to look around in their imagery, their deeper mind imagery, and just see what's there. And. And images come to people and they're random, they seem random, often. And then I guide them to have a conversation with that image that represents that six year old. Sometimes the six year old herself or himself actually shows up. And then we just care for that child. What does that child need? Does that child need to get out of the house? You know, what does the adult, so here's the piece, the adult is going back, I don't even know if I can say back, the adult is looking around for that part, that six year old that is still frozen. And when the adult finds that six year old frozen part, I'll ask questions like, Where is your six year old? Are they in the house? Are they out in the yard? Are they at school? And so that helps them fill in their imagery of this moment in their life. And then I ask, does the child know that you are there, you, the adult self, that you're there with them? And so I help them have, you know, realize that they're both there. And then I ask the adult, how do they want to help the child? Do they want to hold them, tell them that they're okay? Do they want to get them out of the house, out of the danger? And so the inner work is done, obviously, by the client, not by me, the practitioner. And so I am assisting a person to find that frozen part. I actually ask if they can make eye contact, deep in the mind, if that makes sense. If the adult self and the six year old self, I ask, I ask the adult, Can you see, can you see her eyes? The eyes of your six year old? What do you see in them? And they're, I've I've come to call it alpha eye contact. But there's something that happens when the, when the adult aspect and the child aspect make inner eye contact, some kind of connection happens. And there's often a release of emotion from the adult. It's like, wow, there you are. And so after the adult helps the child however they want to, I ask if they want to invite the child home. And what I mean by home is, Hey, six year old child, would you like to leave this place and come be in present time with me? Where you will be seen, and where you will be safe, etc. So the adult then gets to choose whether to do that or not. They usually do. And now the essence of this six year old has joined the energy of the person, if that makes sense.
Track 1:sense.
shuna_2_03-05-2024_111941:It's hard to describe sometimes. So now they've joined the energy. They've joined the adult in present time. And the cool thing is, they bring so many gifts to the adult.
Track 1:Yeah.
shuna_2_03-05-2024_111941:Maybe the adult has forgotten how to play, which is often the case. And now they've received this childlike energy back into their system.
Track 1:Yes.
shuna_2_03-05-2024_111941:And they're lighter and they play more and they're less stressed. The brow is less furrowed through the day, you know, so that's, you know, a general idea of what Body Mind Bridge is all about.
Track 1:So beautiful. So I have worked with you twice now, and both are sacred experiences to me. Both, just pictures and diagrams all over in the journals that I had at the time. I was, I think of them periodically because of what I got back, I should say, from that. But as you're talking about that, just to clarify for the audience. So, You have a hypnotherapy background. You've also been a high school teacher and massage therapist. So going into it intellectually and also energetically and also helping people get in their deeper mind is just this beautiful synergy that you, that you specifically can provide. So what you do is help people a feel safe, be go in there deeper, So you're not being hypnotized really and you're not
shuna_2_03-05-2024_111941:Mm mm,
Track 1:Led by anyone. What I noticed is you helped me feel safe enough and to go deep enough that I could go in that land of sort of abstract, deeper mind thinking. And then when you ask a question like, where are you feeling this anger or where are you feeling this or this something in your body? And it surprised me both times. It wasn't. where I thought it would be. I'm like, why is something in my rib? I don't know why something's in my rib.
shuna_2_03-05-2024_111941:yeah, mm hmm,
Track 1:my finger in that all the time to try to get it to like, play nice if I'm trying to run. But what I found was I did have a little girl and I remember when I found her, she was on the floor just sobbing. But an interesting thing for me and the reason I bring it up is because I've noticed that both times my experience with you related a lot to what I was undoing in my life. The second time that I worked with you, I really was in a spot of not in a shameful way learning what I had done to myself. It was like in a way of really taking a look at what I had done to myself by betraying myself so often, you know, for the good of my family. I'm putting this in air quotes or the good of my patients or of my employees or whatever, just walking away over and over from myself. And when I, as an adult came into this session with you found this little girl sobbing on the floor, when I, when I went down to talk to her as I would, you know, my own little girl and be kind. She was glad I was there, but she did not trust me. When I told her that I would take care of her, she looked right at me and she told me I would sometimes, and then she knew very well I wouldn't. Sometimes, and I was distraught because I'm like, well, a, you're super cool. You're telling the truth. Thank you for speaking as a little girl would. You don't believe me and I don't blame you, but I don't know what to do. I don't know how to keep dropping the ball on myself. I don't know anything different than just trying to do my best for everyone else. And I remember being so grateful that you were there to guide me because I I meditate often. I can do it in a work by myself, but in that spot, I felt stuck. I'm like, well, she doesn't trust me. I can't integrate. That's fantastic news. But you asked me if I could find an older version of myself, perhaps a version that has not yet come to pass, but that is older and wiser or a higher self. And I'm, I met two different parts that day. I met my higher self, which I feel as like a spiritual, my soul.
shuna_2_03-05-2024_111941:hmm,
Track 1:I also met a woman that looks to me to be in her early sixties, probably short gray hair. And she's just sitting and laughing on a beach. It's just so simple, but it's blazoned in my mind. And she looks like she owns herself and you wouldn't be afraid to have a real conversation with her. And there's also just joy radiating out of her non makeup face. And once I met her, then you asked me what she had to say. And I had a conversation with her, which was beautiful, but I didn't know how to integrate those three parts. It was like mother, maiden, crone, only the maiden was very little.
shuna_2_03-05-2024_111941:yeah,
Track 1:when you had my higher self come in and speak to us, then I, the person this age. This, this experience could integrate us all. And it was unbelievably beautiful. Every time I think about it, I feel that energy of a child's trust in me restored of the responsibility of the trust that is placed in me to take care of her as I take care of myself. Yeah. And the wisdom and joy to look forward as I peel layers off. I mean, I didn't see someone that had reached some pinnacle of financial success or was on some, in some foreign mountaintop. I saw me being happy and, and that was so valuable. The way you led it was beautiful. So if people are wondering what you mean by eye contact, there's really something, I mean something powerful when your lip, when your child inside will look at you. with trust and belief in you. And there's something powerful when an older version looks at you, like you are exactly where you're intended to be. And you're taking the steps you need to when it comes from within you. It's different. It's powerful.
shuna_2_03-05-2024_111941:yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes.
Track 1:pretty awesome, Shona. So, oh,
shuna_2_03-05-2024_111941:know we're doing this. You're awesome. No, you're awesome. You're awesome. But you have to, you have to understand that you came to that session ready. There's something in you that said, okay, I'm going to try this. There's something about this. is speaking to me and you, it's so wonderful the story you just told because Your adult self kind of went, yikes, she doesn't trust me, this is my six year old, I thought for sure she would just run into my arms, and she spoke the truth, and you were able to receive that, instead of get defensive.
Track 1:Yeah.
shuna_2_03-05-2024_111941:And because you were able to receive that, it's what cued me in on thinking, Oh, I wonder if she has an older self that would like to So, it's an exchange. I don't have that already in my hip pocket thinking, Oh, if her child doesn't trust her, then we'll bring in No, it's an exchange between you and I doing this inner type of work. So it takes two kind of thing is what I'm saying. Yeah. you did beautifully,
Track 1:think that's how healing works often. The deep presence that I talk about with you, that is a goal of most of the healers that I know is just to pay attention. And I don't mean only if you are in healthcare or only if you're in therapy type work. There are people that I know that I would call healers just because of how you feel when you are standing in front of them. And they're. with you. They're just with you. I think there's something about the energy exchange that happens then that is deeply fulfilling and connecting. And the more of us that do that, the better and the more of us can do that when we can do it with ourselves. So I love that you do online consultations. Online appointments, but you also have some books and let's talk about that because it's awesome. You have finished books. I still have not finished one yet. I am applauding everyone who actually can get a copy of a book that someone finished. It's wonderful. But you came out with, so Body Mind Bridge Institute is your business. And I know we've talked about symptoms being your friend and then you have one about Body Mind Bridge that teaches more about that. Your last one I thought was It's very interesting also about survival trances. So we touched a little on what, what that was earlier in this interview, but didn't call it a survival trance. Can you explain what that is? Because I bet a lot of people in the audience will know exactly what that feels like.
shuna_2_03-05-2024_111941:know, as soon as people hear that term, and they've never heard it before, they'll go, Oh, oh, that's what's going on with me. I mean, there's something that people recognize with that name. And so yeah, I wrote an entire book, it's called Deactivate Your Survival Trances. How to deactivate them. And I wrote a book specifically on that because it seems to be the thing that needs to be addressed by most people in order for them to move on
Track 1:Right.
shuna_2_03-05-2024_111941:with whatever healing they're doing. Could be physical or emotional, whatever. So yeah, survival trances, basically what we were talking about earlier, like that 6-year-old is in this. horrible situation. They can't run. I mean, the fight or flight kicks in, right? The fight or flight or freeze. That's the third F. Fight, flight, or freeze. or fawn. Yeah, there's, now they know there's a fourth one. So, our body, our physicality kicks in, sees the danger, kicks in, and if you're little, you can't run, you can't fight that bigger, you know, there's reasons why you have to freeze.
Track 1:Yep.
shuna_2_03-05-2024_111941:And when we do that, parts of, part of us has to shut down is one way to say it, but I guess not participate with the rest of us. It's like on hold, on pause, withholding part of our energy.
Track 1:Mm hmm.
shuna_2_03-05-2024_111941:Are different ways to say it. And so that's what a survival trance is. And as I mentioned earlier, we now know that our central nervous system kicks in and does that for us. So that we can, again, survive to adulthood. It's a survival mechanism. So if we can't run away and if we can't fight, we freeze. And that's a survival trance. And it can happen at any age.
Track 1:and how does that show up when you are an adult then?
shuna_2_03-05-2024_111941:Well, often it shows up with what we call triggers.
Track 1:Mm hmm.
shuna_2_03-05-2024_111941:Let's use a an example of an older person. Let's say, this is a real common thing, you're in a car accident. You're driving, you see it coming, somebody's going to hit you. You see it in the rearview mirror. And we automatically tense up and get ready for the, you know, for the hit. And depending on how that all turns out, if we aren't able to express the fear, At that time, we might then be afraid to drive a car.
Track 1:Yeah.
shuna_2_03-05-2024_111941:I've worked with several people who don't want to get in the car again because they're still traumatized by that whole situation. And if they were physically hurt and years have gone by and now physically the docs say, you're good, physically you're fine. Why do you still have that trauma? pain in your head. Why do you still have, I'm thinking of a lady right now who came in with neck pain, chronic neck pain, headband everywhere, had all the MRIs, etc. And when I was talking with her, she had been in a horrible car accident 20 years earlier, and I won't go into all the details. difficult details, but she healed physically, but not emotionally, and was still holding that trauma in her neck, in the muscles in her neck,
Track 1:Wow. So as you go in, could she go into that trauma by sort of feeling the energy or, or the, you know, however that feels for different people, but feeling however that energy is manifesting in there, was she able to go in deeper and help relieve some of it?
shuna_2_03-05-2024_111941:yes, yes, and I say it hesitantly because this is the point where people think, oh, that's being re traumatized, and people ask me, but will I be re traumatized if I look at that again? And honestly, you know, I've worked with hundreds of people with lots of different traumas. Never, never has anyone been re traumatized, and I'll say why. When you are in charge, when you, the adult self, makes the journey back to seeing that car accident, you can actually distance yourself from it. I help people do this. You're not feeling it again. You're not in the trauma again. You're watching it from a distance. And, well, so I guess I am going to go into a few of those details. So in this, in this horrible car accident, her daughter actually was in the car and her daughter died. So it was awful. And so in her Body, Mind, Bridge session, she wanted to, she wanted to finally let go of this emotional reason that she had the neck pain. And so in her Body, Mind, Bridge session, she chose Okay, I'm going to go back to that time, and it's in black and white now, I don't have to feel these things, I can just watch them. And the image that came up was her daughter.
Track 1:Oh, wow.
shuna_2_03-05-2024_111941:her daughter said, Mom, I'm okay, don't blame yourself, you know, that kind of thing. And she got to speak with her daughter, and of course she was crying and releasing, which is beautiful. And when she was done with that And this doesn't always happen, but when she was done with that, her neck pain of 20 years was gone, and it stayed gone.
Track 1:From the, from the outside view, you could even say if it was emotionally being held there, but part of it was her daughter, you'd be trying to let go and trying to hold on. Right? I mean,
shuna_2_03-05-2024_111941:Oh, yeah, I never thought of that. Yeah.
Track 1:thing to look at, but scarier to let go twice if that's the last thing you have. Does that make sense? Yes. Yes.
shuna_2_03-05-2024_111941:But she didn't let go. She built a relationship again.
Track 1:That's beautiful.
shuna_2_03-05-2024_111941:Does that make sense? I mean,
Track 1:and such a different way to look at it. Like going in and talking to her is a huge gift. Having your body be yelling at you does not feel like a gift.
shuna_2_03-05-2024_111941:Yes.
Track 1:And done with respect and with help as in like being guided by you. So she's not being stuck in it. I think that's beautiful. That's the concern for a lot of trauma is just, will I be re traumatized exactly like you said?
shuna_2_03-05-2024_111941:That is not fun. So again, this person was not re traumatized because she was doing this, not me. I wasn't saying, okay, now, go back to that car accident. I wasn't Leading her that way, it was her choice. She was empowered enough to go see what she could do to release this neck pain. And that's the imagery that came to her and she is the person who talked with her daughter. And she is the person who allowed herself to sob and to, in her imagery, to hold her daughter and love her daughter, etc. To reconnect and move out of the grief and move out of the guilt and the, you know, depression and all that, so. That's the difference.
Track 1:That's a hard story. I know but I'm so grateful that you shared it and I'm grateful that she came to you So we had this opportunity to talk about it because I think like so many things part of the trauma or the things we can't let go or when we feel like something happened to us like we weren't The one in the driver's seat or making the decisions. And if we can go into these experiences with more empowerment and more support where we are indeed making more of the choices, we are talking to our little girls or, you know, her actually to her, her vision of her little girl. But are the ones standing up for it. We are the ones. It's doing the work. It's a very different seat where trauma seems done to us and healing seems like we come forward to decide what we want and what we want to live with in the future.
shuna_2_03-05-2024_111941:Oh, I love that.
Track 1:I think.
shuna_2_03-05-2024_111941:Yeah, that's well spoken.
Track 1:I think this is a perfect way to segue into also some of the other things that you're doing now. So, you just finished a book and I Love the idea of it. It's a fiction book instead of a
shuna_2_03-05-2024_111941:Huh. Huh.
Track 1:but such a fun way to teach it. So you are helping people move into their deeper minds or their into, I guess, a more like spiritual journey space or into trauma also in a different empowered way using, I think you called yourself a psychedelic doula, but I know you have a more professional name for it. So can you explain to me how you, how or why you started moving into that space? I know a lot of people are interested in that, but I also know a lot of people have heard traumatic stories where it was done poorly or done wrong and people did end up getting re traumatized by going into it when they were actually seeking for help. So can you tell me about your transition into this and then how you make that also a place that can be more safe and more empowering to help people go deeper? And also tell
shuna_2_03-05-2024_111941:thank you. Oh my gosh 20 some years ago before it was a thing I got on a plane and I went to Peru because I had been reading a book a lot of books about shamans who are in the southern part of our planet shamans who have been Doing the same type of work for millennia. I mean their ancestors and so on and I was really curious about the medicine called Ayahuasca, and I did my due diligence and I Worked with people that I knew were savvy etc. And I flew to Peru and stayed just a week But within that week I used I worked with that medicine. I took that medicine three different times which is pretty common. And it, that experience with the medicine it has, had continued to inform my life for another 20 years. In other words, I had no desire to do, to work with any other psychedelic medicines. I, I, in fact, I went on with different parts of my life. Fast forward to about a year ago, and a psychiatrist friend of mine called me and said, hey, there's this training going on up in Seattle. Check it out, maybe you're, maybe you'd be interested. And so I checked it out, and something called me to, as a lot of people know, these psychedelic medicines. that were shut down in 1970, if you're younger and you don't know the history of this. Psychedelic medicine, the word psychedelic means, all it means is mind expanding. That's all it means. And so psychedelic medicines were used through the 50s and the 60s. They were researched, there are a thousand research papers and all kinds of psychiatrists were saying, yay, we found something that really works well with these psychedelic medicines. And then in the 70s, they quote, escaped the lab, which means that they got out in the street and people said, woohoo, you know, check this out. This is amazing. However, A lot of people were hurt because our culture has no, doesn't have elders to guide us with these medicines. It, it had no, there was no, came with no instructions.
Track 1:Right.
shuna_2_03-05-2024_111941:And people got hurt, and there was a lot of political stuff going on, which I do cover in this little book of mine, which I'll talk about in a minute. But, point being, they became illegal, and a lot of people, therapists, psychotherapists, said, Oh, now what do we do? This was such a promising thing, when done correctly. And so a lot of people at their own professional peril, and personal peril, went underground with these medicines, and have continued seeing clients for years. underground illegally Because they know how much they help so fast forward to now now these medicines are surfacing again All new research is being done and the new research is going. Oh my gosh.
Track 1:Yeah.
shuna_2_03-05-2024_111941:Oh my gosh Look at what we have here When? Done safely.
Track 1:I know I've seen some about the neural pathways that open up about how much easier your brain can reprogram, retrain, learn all kinds of amazing things with anxiety, depression when done correctly. Exactly.
shuna_2_03-05-2024_111941:yes, yes, yes, and so they're still illegal, most of them, and people are trying to change that In the United States and in a lot of places, because as soon as the United States, back in the 70s, as soon as Richard Nixon did this basically then the rest of Europe and everybody said, okay, we better shut this down. So, that's the There's a gentleman that I want to pay tribute to his name is Rick Doblin And he was just one of those hippie kids on the street in the 70s and he saw what a benefit these medicines were and All he wanted to do was to be one of the guides these psychedelic guides then they remained illegal and he thought oh What do I do and check this out? He enrolled in a PhD program in Har at Harvard and specifically to learn how to work with the FDA to get something approved again.
Track 1:Oh, wow! Way to go, hippie boy! Yes! Smart! Very intelligent, hippie
shuna_2_03-05-2024_111941:oh my god, and then he had to choose, okay, which, which of these medicines? Is it LSD? Is it psilocybin? Is it ayahuasca? Is it MDMA? And he landed on MDMA because It is the one that has the most potential to work with PTSD. And he's no dummy. He said, Alright, so I'm going to, and he didn't say market this, this is my word. His focus was, let's help the military and let's help the first responders with their PTSD.
Track 1:Yeah.
shuna_2_03-05-2024_111941:Knowing that that would get the ears of the VA and the government and so on. And so that's the medicine that he's chosen. And right now, Becca, as you and I speak, I mean, it's taken years, years and years and years of trials through the FDA. Step one, step two, step three, through the FDA approval process. And right now, next August, I think they said August 10th or August 15th, is when it will be official that now MDMA will be legal for therapeutic use for PTSD.
Track 1:Wow.
shuna_2_03-05-2024_111941:And because Rick and all of the people he's worked with have done this work and set this precedent, Bye. Bye. Bye. People are thinking psilocybin will, in a few more years, be federally approved for treatment of depression, especially treatment resistant depression. So, that's what's happening right now, and in the meantime Alright, so there's a quick little Fork in the road I want to do here. We're talking about mental health, helping our mental health, which is critical right now. And there's another group of people who are called well people. They're just, they don't have a lot of mental health problems, and those are the people who are on a, quote, spiritual journey. And that's why they are using these medicines, because these medicines often help us have a mystical experience, for lack of a better term. Help us have Connect with something larger than ourselves. There's so many ways to say this. And, so there's a second reason, at least, for using these medicines. One is for your own spiritual path, and another is to get yourself better with your mental health and your emotional health.
Track 1:Yeah. Mm hmm.
shuna_2_03-05-2024_111941:So, being Being an educator and being, and I'm learning how to be a writer, I thought, I want to write a fiction book. I want to write a story that is fun to read and embedded in the story are is education about how to use these medicines correctly. About set and setting, and about choosing a person who is qualified. to be your guide, et cetera. And so I created a character, her name came to me when I was on an airplane coming home from Florida last year. I was sitting at 37, 000 feet and I was thinking, you know, I really want to write a fiction, but what would it be about? And I, I swear to you, the name, Jenny P. Perkins, popped into my awareness and I thought, where did that come from? And that's the name of the protagonist in the book, Jenny P. Perkins. And the name of the book is Forty Nine Days. The Psychedelic Discoveries of Jenny P. Perkins, Psychonaut Scientist. So she's a scientist, a staunch neuroscientist, who has a bunch of magical, quirky things happen that guide her to try working with psychedelic medicines to help her research.
Track 1:Mm.
shuna_2_03-05-2024_111941:So she's got all of those stories woven into this. She goes to Peru and has an experience with ayahuasca. And of course I'm drawing on my own experience. She's kind of like my alter ego, but she has these real science, I've done, I'm geeking out on the science of all of this. I have for a couple years now, so in this book, 49 Days, is real science, real research results, and some science that hasn't yet happened. I like to think of it as science catching up. So, some of this is, quote, real, or accurate, factual, and some of it is magical, and some of it is speculative, and so it's a mix of what they call, it's fiction, of course, but they call it magical realism. It's a genre of magical realism.
Track 1:Becca genre if I've ever heard one
shuna_2_03-05-2024_111941:as soon as I heard about that, I said, That's it! I can have both. I don't have to make things up totally like in a fantasy book. I can weave the two together within a story form, so
Track 1:I think the best life, the best conversations, the best friendships, the best loves are both magic and real. So what a
shuna_2_03-05-2024_111941:Oh, yes.
Track 1:cool genre, what a cool life.
shuna_2_03-05-2024_111941:Yeah. And,
Track 1:I love that she goes at it from an intellectual perspective because these, medicines or teachers I think can be so powerfully helpful, but also they are often represented in ways that can sort of turn off people that may really use them because they are presented only in a vague, sort of like hippie or recreational way. I kind of laughed to myself because I have some people close to me that did a lot of recreational drugs when they were younger and people wanted to do a journey and they were like, what the, I mean, you all know how many grams and how much we used to just grab a plant and put it in our mouth and see what happened. And they were laughing like everything has to be so detailed and measured out now. But I think going back to,
shuna_2_03-05-2024_111941:hmm.
Track 1:yeah, and also some people got hurt. It's kind of like, You know, alcohol, there's different doses for different people. There's different settings in which you are safe to have feelings come up or which are not. It's the same as, you know, having other conversations, maybe seeing a therapist who actually knows what they're doing and knows how to keep you safe and guide you along. Or you know, your uncle Joey is kind of a jerk. You don't want to have the same, you don't want to express yourself or go deeper in one position. It's Versus the other and I find that's the way a lot of it is with doing them recreationally or having the wrong dose or being with people who are not fantastic guides
shuna_2_03-05-2024_111941:Or being in an unsafe situation at a party or, you know. at somebody's house you don't even know.
Track 1:Or in a foreign country or with substances that you're not sure where they're from or maybe even that have been You know you know, taken from indigenous people and not treated respectfully or paid well for it. There's just so many different ways to do it. But
shuna_2_03-05-2024_111941:Yes, and everything,
Track 1:Oh, sorry. I was
shuna_2_03-05-2024_111941:everything that you Ha ha ha, go ahead. Ha. Everything you just Everything you just described can lead to what they call a bad trip. What is a bad trip? I mean, a bad trip is when emotions come up. And you have no resources there with you. You are in this other dimension of your being, and this stuff is coming up. There's nobody there with you. There's nobody there holding your hand or directing you or letting you know you're safe. If you have those resources, You're in a safe place, you're with someone who can see you, care for you help you if you hit turbulence, as they call it. Help you move towards the turbulence so that you can break through it. If you don't have those things, it's a hell, it's not fun.
Track 1:So what you're doing is basically being a person that will sit with someone while they are going. I mean, I can't even, I can't think of a safer person to do that or a more skilled person in my, in my world than, than you, that's a fantastic idea. When I heard you were doing that, I thought, okay, so what do you do that is different? I'm assuming because I have seen and experienced a spiritual journey like that. Hold on,
shuna_2_03-05-2024_111941:Oh, with body mind bridge?
Track 1:I'm like, okay, hold on, let me stop and reroute that sentence.
shuna_2_03-05-2024_111941:Okay.
Track 1:explain to me what you do as you're sitting with people when they're on a journey or why someone would want to go on a journey versus doing the deeper work, like body mind bridge, how do they help each other or how are they different or the same? Mm
shuna_2_03-05-2024_111941:that is a great question. I've learned just in this last year, all right, so I thought, okay, I'm moving on to working with with psychedelics as a guide. as a person who sits with you. And I thought I was wrapping up my work with Body Mind Bridge. Oh no, I am finding out that they mesh so beautifully together. Now, to answer your question, when a person is using most medicines, there is an arc to the journey. You're, the medicine is starting to come into your system, you're feeling it, and you're moving higher into other parts of yourself. And you soar. They use the word soar for a while. Body Mind Bridge is not used during those times. It's during the coming out of the medicine. And I'll give you an example. It makes so much more sense with examples. I worked with an MD recently who was using psilocybin with me. And when she, and it was her first time. And she had this beautiful experience. And as she was coming out of the medicine, And eventually she sat up and I gave her some water and she said, Wow, you know, I just I just learned so much. And then this woman said, but I don't know how to help her. And I thought, what is she talking about? And so I asked, I thought, I said out loud, who is it that you would like to be able to help? And she said, Oh, my 14 year old. And that was, that was the moment when I realized, okay, Shuna, you have body mind bridge skills. See if she wants to work with that 14 year old while she's still coming out of the medicine because that 14 year old is still right there While she's in this space and I asked her if she wanted to to help her 14 year old out She said yes I said go ahead and lay back down if you can put your eye mask back on if you want and Find her again and from that point on I just led her to Care for that 14 year old and invite her to come home.
Track 1:Mm
shuna_2_03-05-2024_111941:So this is a beautiful meshing of You Buddy, my bridge type work with psychedelic medicines, and I have learned just recently Becca, somebody told me this. Somebody said, Suna, you know you've been doing psychedelic work all these years, right? And it's like didn't occur to me. Because, it's mind, anything that's mind expanding, that's what psychedelic, the word means. So, Becca, you did this Body Mind Bridge work a few times, and you went into a very different part of your mind. You expanded your consciousness, found your younger selves, did your thing, and that technically is mind. Mind expanding work, psychedelic work. So, these two fit beautifully is what I'm learning.
Track 1:I love that definition. I've heard psychedelics referenced just my whole life as the weird colors and schmoopy doopy, like, wall melting, the telephone poles are alive and coming to get me. Like, it sounds more like psychosis now that I'm thinking of what I thought the word psychedelic meant.
shuna_2_03-05-2024_111941:Oh, yeah.
Track 1:so psychedelic means mind expanding,
shuna_2_03-05-2024_111941:Huh.
Track 1:things that people see when they're sometimes having these teachers in them, like people speaking and you see rainbows coming out with their voice, tend to do with the chemicals or just the other really lessons that we experience, right?
shuna_2_03-05-2024_111941:So there's Recreational use and therapeutic use. And the therapeutic use piece is new to people. They don't know. I mean, maybe they did mushrooms back in whenever. And they had a great time talking to the roses. Or whatever. Which, by the way, is a real thing. It's not a hallucination, but that's another story. Now we're using these for therapeutic use, and you're in a quiet setting, you're with somebody you trust, you have headphones on, and incredible music to help guide you, and the music starts slow, and it builds and builds, and now you're in your soaring stage, and now the music changes, and so As you go into the medicine with your eye mask on, you're able to visualize, you're able to have inner conversations. You're able to learn things and see things, and you can, if you want, depending on the medicine, you can speak with your person who's there. In fact, I am often a scribe for people. I offer to be a scribe because they, they may, they may be learning something that they don't wanna forget, and they can say, Uhuna, would you write this down?
Track 1:Oh, that
shuna_2_03-05-2024_111941:so, and so it's a very different approach to using these medicines. You know, this, shouldn't I write this down, this is what happened to me, this is why I'm depressed today. I just, I just was shown this, or that, you know, that type of thing happens. So, it's a,
Track 1:sentences that I want to remember moving forward. This is what I want to pin on my wall. This is what I want to keep in my heart. Those were the things that when I was in my journeys, I was like, how am I going to write this down? I don't want to stop the flow to write this down. That's why I'm sighing with relief that you offer that
shuna_2_03-05-2024_111941:Yes, yes.
Track 1:can take whatever
shuna_2_03-05-2024_111941:it's a brand new ballgame. They're calling it the psychedelic renaissance. And I do want to take a moment if, do we have a few more moments? Okay. I want to acknowledge the indigenous cultures. Oh my gosh, I would be remiss if I didn't at least bring this in. They have been,
Track 1:that.
shuna_2_03-05-2024_111941:they have been working with, praying with, using these medicines for ceremony, to connect with ancestors, to connect with the spirits of the planet. They have been the keepers. of these medicines and this knowledge and along comes western folk and they say oh goody a new drug let's grab it and go and let's make money on it and thankfully I'm so glad Many indigenous voices are saying, Stop. Stop this. They the word just left my mind. What is it called? They're asking for something reciprocity. Oh, and that word I'm forgetting is really important right now. But basically, let us be a voice in this. This isn't just grabbing a plant from the rainforest, synthesizing it down to a chemical, putting it in a pill, and making money on it. There's just something inherently wrong with that. It's so many more indigenous voices are showing up on the scene and saying, we want a voice in this. We want, I think they call it sacred reciprocity, something along those lines, sacred reciprocity. Acknowledge that these medicines come from this culture and
Track 1:Yeah.
shuna_2_03-05-2024_111941:that we have been keeping them for all of these years. And yes, these medicines are powerful healers. And let me show you a different approach, instead of just the Western approach. Here, take this pill.
Track 1:Yeah.
shuna_2_03-05-2024_111941:In fact, they're doing this now. They're giving, they, meaning Western medicine, in some places, are giving people the pill and putting them in a room by themselves and saying, okay, it'll last about a couple hours. We'll come back and check on you.
Track 1:Oh, gosh.
shuna_2_03-05-2024_111941:It's, it, I just had a soldier tell, tell me that that's, that's what he went through. There was nobody there.
Track 1:oh, that's entirely different because the whole point is connection. So many of these medicines connect you to a higher self or to yourself or whatever.
shuna_2_03-05-2024_111941:Mm hmm.
Track 1:To each other and there are points at which you may not know where to go and you may need help. I love, this reminds me of what you said more towards the beginning of our conversation is that what our culture has been missing is the elders to show the
shuna_2_03-05-2024_111941:Yeah.
Track 1:about how to sit with them. It is different than a chemical. There's lots of chemical drugs that we can take and they don't, they don't. teach you who you are. It's different. So what are ways that we can support the Indigenous people in keeping these medicines sacred? I know I have seen some people doing non profits to protect their rainforests doing things to protect the tribal sort of villages so that if Westerners are going to, are going to go there for spiritual journeys, both the Tourists are more protected, but also the tribes are more protected. So money is one thing we can do. I guess being aware and showing respect is another thing we can do. But from within it, Shuna, what do you think is a way we can show that respect or learn more?
shuna_2_03-05-2024_111941:said is part of it. And, you know, as you were speaking, I was going deeper and deeper in myself, looking for how to express this. And what's coming to me in this moment is, you know what, Western culture, you gotta change your attitude. You've got such, I'm speaking to all of us, we have inherited from our ancestors, it's been going on for a long time, The Western culture has this entitlement thing. I'm going to go into your country, I'm going to take your things, I'm going to take your gold, I'm going to take your silver, I'm going to take your women. I mean, I'm going to take, take, take. And now it's happening with these medicines, take, take, take. And so, at a very fundamental level, there needs to be a shift in how we perceive our, this entitlement thing we've got going. How can that happen? Full circle. Full circle. So, use some psilocybin in a safe way and learn that you are not, learn that you are connected. I mean, it sounds trite, I get that. But when you use these medicines in a safe, protected way, in a therapeutic way, and you experience what you will experience, you'll, you'll say, Okay, I get it now. I get it. It's not just a concept. I get it. And you see back to the 70s, Becca? When those hippies and kids and adults were using LSD and all of these things, they were shown how much more there is to themselves and how they are connected.
Track 1:Yeah.
shuna_2_03-05-2024_111941:They had to go underground, and now they're 60 and 70 years old, right? These kids back then are now 60 and 70 years old. They're in this culture, and they are assisting, there's many names I could think of, These 60 and 70 year olds are the ones who are emerging and leading in the Western culture this so called psychedelic renaissance. Because back then they saw the connection, they not just saw, they felt full body. Holy cow, I get it now,
Track 1:Yeah. It's not a feeling you'll forget. It's just not. I went to England on a writer's retreat twice with a fantastic group of authors. And for one, we were staying in this amazing place. It was the oldest still still put together abbey that was on the on English soil and we got to stay a couple nights there, but it was interesting there because it was a place available to be rented like an Airbnb. They had some upgraded features like there was in this room. In this old room with literally walls about five feet thick. There was also a little TV and like a whole lineup of blu ray DVDs. And so I'm in this different country, and as I'm looking at the movies, my cousin was standing next to me, and she could identify all the American made movies. And they were things like action movies and big drama movies. And she looked at the lineup and said, Wow, America, just really, we are the adolescents of the world, aren't we? We want to be grandiose. We charge in before we think about it. Everything is big, like huge love, huge heartbreak, big catastrophe, big. And she was like, when you look at our movies next to the other cultures, you really can see it. That's what I was thinking as you were speaking. Like, yes, we come in with the entitlement, that sort of like adolescent, I'm growing into myself. Now I should have what I want type of thing. And I think you said that beautifully, beautifully, sorry, beautifully, the full circle of we can take the medicine or do the other options, do the body mind bridge, do the things that it takes for us to heal and for more of us to grow into. wiser versions of ourselves. We need adults, like the integrated adults, not teenagers. to begin to change the culture from within. We become some of the elders for our own selves, the people you said in their 60s and 70s, bringing it to the next generation. If we can, that is present in, in many religious situations, which can, you know, go for good or bad, but thank heaven that we have a context and a culture that does that in some ways, but that doesn't have to be the only way. It can be in healing arenas. It can be in other arenas where we do the work for ourselves. And then we come full circle and we teach the next generation. And then the culture can start to change. I think it changes from within. I think you're exactly right.
shuna_2_03-05-2024_111941:hmm, mm hmm, One heart at a time.
Track 1:Yes. One heart at a time. Shuna, thank you so much for your time and your explanations and your wisdom and just your. Full presence. I am not surprised that you offered it, but I am grateful to be able to offer that experience to those that were listening. So, how can people find
shuna_2_03-05-2024_111941:Thank you? Oh, such a beautiful interviewer you are. It's lovely that we didn't create questions ahead of time. This has been totally spontaneous and beautifully right on. Just lovely, thank you.
Track 1:you are welcome.
shuna_2_03-05-2024_111941:So my website is shunamorelli. com and that is spelled S H U N A M O R E L L I dot com. Thank you.
Track 1:Okay, and on that I had nosed around in it and it has your books, has courses, it has information on the psychedelic doula work that you do, which again, those medicines are not legal in the United States. People would have to, you know, find their own medicine at their own risk. But the, the, the safe sitting with of someone. is right on. So that's how that works in case people are wondering. So I hope you, if you're in the audience, if you have any questions, pick up a book or go to a website. And for now, mostly what I just have to say is a deep thank you. Thank you so much for your time and attention, Shuna.
shuna_2_03-05-2024_111941:Oh, thank you, Becca.
Track 1:I
shuna_2_03-05-2024_111941:Blessings to you.
Yeah. See what I mean? She's pretty great. I will put links in the show notes to all of her books and to her website. For any resources, you can also check them out for notes of today's takeaways. And I'm just so grateful. She was willing to spend time and share her wisdom with us. For next week, it just continues people. I have another one of my favorite people that has helped not only my life, but so many lives that I personally know her name is Cindy Jones. She has been a mental health therapist for over 27 years. And a large portion of that has been focusing on trauma therapy. So she has been really in the trenches with people in some of the hardest parts of their lives or recovering from them. She is a co-owner of a company called by tap. Which she and her dear friend created. When they really looked at the world at large and how much anxiety and trauma is happening and realized they could probably reach more people by creating devices that help nervous system regulation. So people are able to come back to themselves and use their tools and their resources. Then they would be by trying to just reach one person at a time in treatment rooms. So she switched out of having a full time therapy practice. And they now created Bluetooth tappers that help regulate the nervous system. Their mission, as I discovered is to help everyone increase their resiliency. Calm. And focus by regulating their nervous systems through bilateral tapping, which is pretty cool. It means that they are putting devices in local schools, that they are sending them to first responders. It means that when there is communities in crisis or trouble, they are training people how to use them and reaching many people at a time. We also discuss other regulation tools because she is a bad-ass therapist. She was my therapist and she helped me move from off the floor in my life. To standing on my own two feet. We discussed something called the window of tolerance, which helps us understand why sometimes we can be our calm, authentic selves. And sometimes we go out of that calm self, into triggers or into depression and what we can do to help ourselves regulate. We talk about coping skills with anxiety. We talk about bilateral stimulation and the research on what it does when we move both sides of our body, walking, tapping, et cetera, and how it regulates. So it's a fascinating conversation. That is full of things that Cindy always brings, which is heart understanding, communication and research. So, you know, I'm going to love that. And I hope you love it too. Tune in next week.