33. Part One: Confronting the internalised misogyny of flying monkeys...and ourselves

Have you ever witnessed a friend or family member supporting someone you know is harmful? In the latest episode, I pull back the curtain on the role of 'flying monkeys'—those who, perhaps unwittingly, become the enablers of abusers. 
Join me, Danielle Black, as we delve into the heart of internalised misogyny and post-separation abuse dynamics, uncovering why some women might side with aggressors and take a stand against female victim-survivors of abuse.

This conversation extends into the intricacies of relationships where traditional gender roles and internalised misogyny often go unquestioned. I explore the aftereffects of these dynamics on post-separation life, weaving in personal reflections and shared stories to consider how past expectations may haunt our present. It's not about pointing fingers, but about dissecting the societal influence and pressure that shapes our roles as partners and parents. Prepare to be confronted by the hard truths and inspired to join with me to forge a path toward a future where women support women, free from the shadows of internalised sexism and misogyny.

The music you hear in this outro is 'Calm is Credible' - an original track created exclusively for the Post-Separation Abuse Podcast and Danielle Black Coaching.  You can listen and download this track via the Danielle Black Coaching website, in our 'free resources' area.

About Danielle Black Coaching:

Danielle Black is a respected authority in child-focused post-separation parenting in Australia. With over twenty years’ experience across education, counselling and coaching - alongside her own lived experience navigating a complex separation and family court journey - she supports parents to think strategically, build capacity, and protect their children’s safety and wellbeing within complex legal and relational systems.

Through Danielle Black Coaching, she leads a growing team of specialist coaches and a structured support ecosystem designed to provide professionally held, evidence-informed guidance for parents navigating high-conflict separation and family court processes.

Learn more at danielleblackcoaching.com.au

This podcast is for educational purposes only and not legal advice. Please seek independent legal, medical, financial, or mental health advice for your situation.

Transcript

Understanding Internalized Misogyny and Sexism

Speaker 1 0:00

Hi, thanks for joining me on another episode of the Post-Separation Abuse Podcast. I'm your host, specialist Australian separation, divorce and co-parenting coach, danielle Black. I work with Aussie women one-on-one to support them as they navigate separation, divorce and co-parenting with a controlling former partner, and part of the support that I provide my clients is also a membership community where we can come together as a group to support one another, to lift one another up, to share our lived experiences, whether that's separation, co-parenting, mediation, court journey all of the above and more. If you think you'd benefit from some specialist support while you navigate your journey, please reach out. At the time of recording this podcast, I'm still offering free 30-minute discovery calls that you can quickly and easily book via my website, danielleblackcoachingcomau. Now on onto the episode.

Speaker 1 1:04

Today we're going deeper into the psychology of flying monkeys, peeling back the layers of advocates, allies and enablers. Why exactly do these people support abusers? Going deeper again, why do so many women support abusers? Yes, I'm tackling that one today. Why are so many women so quick, so seemingly eager to turn on other women? This question is very relevant to the epidemic of family violence and post-separation abuse, not just here where I am in Australia, but also worldwide, because having supporters, allies, enablers and advocates means that for an abuser, their behaviour on some level is deemed acceptable. They are deemed acceptable, more than acceptable. They're excused, they're coddled, protected. Their behaviour is minimised, justified, defended. They're supported, and their victims are victimized further, oftentimes further victimized and further abused by other women, women who side with the perpetrator, perhaps the woman who raised the perpetrator, perhaps women who are related to the perpetrator, perhaps the new woman in this person's life, the woman who is now in a relationship with the perpetrator.

Speaker 1 2:27

Family violence and post-separation abuse are often framed as primarily being problems with men, and it's true that most perpetrators of abuse are men, whether the victim is female or male, an adult or a child. The most likely perpetrator of harm is male, but a lot of the supporters of perpetrators are female. For many of my clients, the most likely perpetrator of harm is male, but a lot of the supporters of perpetrators are female. For many of my clients, the most problematic flying monkeys they have to deal with are female members of their ex-partner's family and new partners of their former partner. Why is that? Why are some women so quick to turn on another woman to call her a liar? What the fuck is up with that. That's the rabbit hole.

Speaker 1 3:08

I'm inviting you to go down with me over the next few episodes of the Post-Separation Abuse Podcast. You didn't have a clue. Maybe you thought you knew, but you didn't have a clue. Maybe you thought you knew. Hey, I'm Danielle Black and I'm the coach you need if you're dealing with post-separation abuse. I help you make sense of ongoing abusive behavior after separation and help you take back your power and control. Let's go. You thought you knew, but you didn't have a clue.

Speaker 1 3:48

To learn more about what is going on with flying monkeys, including female flying monkeys, we need to talk about misogyny and internalized misogyny. Before unpacking internalized misogyny, we first have to understand what misogyny is. Misogyny is primarily understood as being the hatred of, contempt for, or prejudice against, women or girls. It can also refer to the social systems and other environments where girls and women face hatred or hostility because they are female and they are living in a world that has largely been created by and for men. You might have heard the word patriarchy, used to describe systems of society or government in which men hold the majority of power and women are largely excluded from it. Now for internalized misogyny, and I'll warn you here, this topic might be confronting for you, because I can almost guarantee that you will have some form of internalized misogyny that you aren't aware of. We all do.

Speaker 1 4:58

Internalized misogyny refers to the fact that, often without knowing it, women and girls believe that the sexist lies, stereotypes and myths about women and girls are true. For example, you as a woman might judge another woman's sexual behavior differently from a man's sexual behavior. So you might say or think boys will be boys when a man has a variety of sexual partners. However, you might think that a woman who behaves the same way is a slut or not ladylike. This is internalised misogyny. This is sexist.

Speaker 1 5:36

You might be disgusted by women's body care or other things about a woman's body. You might think that a woman should take better care of herself and her appearance, such as wearing makeup, having her eyebrows waxed, taking particular care of her nails or hair, and so on. You might, on some level, judge other women for not doing those things. That is sexist. Or you might judge women who do do those things. You might believe that women are too emotional to be good leaders. You might, on some level, believe that women are not very good at science or sport.

Speaker 1 6:13

You or another woman might believe that the most important role is for a woman to be a wife and mother and that everything else in her life should be secondary. You or another woman might believe that men should be obeyed in the context of a relationship, that they should be secondary. You or another woman might believe that men should be obeyed in the context of a relationship, that they should be the final decision maker, especially if they are the primary income earner. This is likely to be something that is more common with women who are aligned with a particular faith or religion. Even if you don't follow a particular faith or religion, this still might apply to you, particularly if you grew't follow a particular faith or religion. This still might apply to you, particularly if you grew up in a household where your father was the primary income earner and where your father was also the primary decision maker.

Speaker 1 6:55

All of these beliefs that I mentioned are sexist, and all of these beliefs contribute to why many people in the community, including women, turn against women who are victim survivors of family violence and ongoing post-separation abuse. It's important to note here, though, that oftentimes we have these beliefs and we aren't consciously aware of them. Some of what I've said already might resonate with you. But you might firmly believe that that's just having a particular opinion, that you just like having your hair done and you think other people should do the same. But what I challenge you on here is do you also apply those same views to men? If your opinion is truly not internalized misogyny, if it's truly not sexist, then views about grooming or sexual behavior would apply to both male and female, not just to women. Along with the examples that I've already mentioned, is a belief of many in the community again, often not something that they're consciously aware of a belief that women lie. A belief that women lie about sexual abuse, about sexual assault, if they just regret the encounter after the fact. A belief that women don't want to share their children after separation and so will lie about family violence, that women are sneaky, that women can be treacherous and manipulative, that women will do anything to get their own way. These are beliefs that some people in the community have, including some women. Some women believe these things about other women, but also about themselves. This is internalized misogyny.

Speaker 1 8:39

I've used the term sexist a few times in this conversation. Sexism is commonly defined as a belief, practice or a system that supports the idea that the male sex is intrinsically superior to the female sex. Research has found that sexism is a very prevalent type of discrimination and prejudice that most women and girls experience on a weekly and sometimes even a daily basis. If you're still with me on this conversation, thank you. I know it's a lot to make space for, but it is a really important conversation. You might have already been aware of the terms patriarchy, misogyny and sexism, but did you know that there are different types of sexism?

Speaker 1 9:19

Sexism refers to sexist beliefs that fall into one of two main categories. That fall into one of two main categories benevolent and hostile. Benevolent sexism uses honorable and gentle justifications for both male dominance and also for prescribed gender roles. Benevolent sexism tends to romanticize heterosexual relationships and recognizes a woman's role as being to serve her man and his romantic dependence upon her. Just read a romance novel and be on the lookout for benevolent sexism, because benevolent sexism tends to be much more subtle. People tend to be much less likely to be held accountable when their words and actions are underpinned by benevolent sexism. Then we've got hostile sexism. The main aim of hostile sexism is to validate male power, along with validating traditional gender roles and a woman's role as being a servant and a sexual object. I'm sure you'll agree. Hostile sexism is likely so much easier to identify than benevolent sexism, but both are ultimately harmful.

Speaker 1 10:32

Importantly, sexist beliefs are not inherent in human beings. We're not born believing these things, and men are not inherently superior to women. They are not born superior, being superior to women. Women do not exist to serve men. These are all learned constructs. Most of us learn these harmful sexist beliefs in childhood, not because anyone sits us down and specifically tells us that women and girls are inferior, but in all the behaviors and conversations that we're exposed to from birth. For example, this could be our mothers doing the lion's share of domestic tasks, parenting and perhaps also working outside of the home. No one told me that the cooking and the cleaning was mostly my job because I was female, but that was the dynamic that I was raised in and that's what I thought a good woman did. That was also reinforced by popular culture and, for clarity I grew up in the 80s TV shows, movies, advertisements, magazines, books and the dynamic in the families of others around me.

Speaker 1 11:43

We've spoken about misogyny and how sexist beliefs contribute to internalized misogyny and how sexist beliefs contribute to internalized misogyny. That is, the beliefs, the values and the attitudes that support men as being entitled to particular things and particular treatment, and the beliefs and the values and the attitudes that hold women to a very different standard. The next job is to talk about the links between internalized misogyny and family violence and post-separation abuse against women and children, and how internalized misogyny relates to the behavior of flying monkeys the enablers, advocates and allies of abusers, particularly the female flying monkeys that you might be dealing with. We're going to continue to unpack how sexism, sexist beliefs, misogyny and internalized misogyny contributes to what you might be dealing with from flying monkeys and from the community's views of women who experience family violence and post-separation abuse in general. We'll continue the conversation in part two, but between now and then, what I'd like you to do is to reflect upon your own internalized misogyny.

Speaker 1 13:00

Do you have particular beliefs about women, yourself and other women, perhaps your daughter, if you have a daughter?

Speaker 1 13:10

Do you have particular beliefs that you could attribute to being internalized misogyny, sexist beliefs? Perhaps that you should be responsible for the majority of domestic tasks, that you should be the servant to your partner or former partner? Maybe you've been challenging those beliefs since separation, but cast your mind back to when you were in the relationship with that person. What was the dynamic? And if there was that traditional dynamic of gender roles, of you doing the lion's share of domestic tasks, perhaps you doing the lion's share of parenting was that something that you disliked or was that something that felt very normalized? Was that something that you enjoyed? Is that something that you think is fair and reasonable?

Speaker 1 14:02

Now that you might not be in that situation, what part of the dynamic of your former relationship is still continuing? For example, is your former partner still expecting you to more or less be their servant, to acquiesce to their demands? This is not about you blaming yourself. This is not about you being hard on yourself or hard on other women. This is about exploring what's going on on a deeper level, exploring the things that underpin our values, beliefs, attitudes, behaviors, thoughts, opinions, because all of those things are very relevant when it comes to our experience our experience of relationships, our experience of separation, our experience of motherhood, our experience of life. Thank you so much for your time. I hope you'll join me on the next episode of the Post-Separation Abuse Podcast. I'll talk to you soon.