#72 - Make Your Website Work for You: Niching Down & Simplified Strategy with Jess Freeman

If your website is more “placeholder” than powerhouse, this episode is your wake-up call. Today on Mindset to Market, I’m joined by Jess Freeman — web designer, SEO strategist, and founder of Jess Creatives — to talk about how service providers and wellness pros can stop overthinking and finally build a site that converts.

We’re breaking down the biggest mistakes solopreneurs make on their websites, what you really need to focus on with SEO (hint: it’s simpler than you think), and how to create a streamlined online presence that attracts the right clients without working around the clock.

Whether you're just starting out or ready to revamp, Jess brings 10+ years of actionable wisdom to help you feel confident, clear, and visible online.

🎯 In this episode, we cover:

• Why choosing a niche opens up a massive audience
• Easy SEO tips that don’t require a tech degree
• The true value of your website and email list 
• Why your website should grow with your business

If you're ready to stop tweaking and start converting, this one’s for you.

References: 

Visit Jess online (and check out her gorgeously designed website): www.jesscreatives.com

Follow Jess on the 'Gram:  instagram.com/jesscreatives

Quarterly One-Day Summits tailored to nutrition and fitness business owners:

www.jesscreatives.com/rx 

Mindset to Market is a Luminous Creative Production. If you'd like to learn more about our business coaching program and group coaching container, please visit us online at DeborahcSmith.com.

Mindset to Market is produced by Deborah C. Smith and designed to inspire and support big-hearted creatives in finding their own unique path, building a sustainable business, and creating financial, spiritual, mental wellness and abundance.

🎉 Join the Mindset to Market Coaching Mastermind ​Learn More
💕 Visit Deborah online at DeborahCSmith.com
💕 Follow on the 'Gram. @mindset2marketpod

Transcript

Episode #72 - Make Your Website Work For You: Niching Down & Simplified Strategy with Jess Freeman

Jess, welcome to the show.

Yes. Thank you so much for having me. So you've been in business for 14 years, which is a huge milestone, so congratulations.

Thanks. Could you just take us back to the early days? What made you take the leap into entrepreneurship as opposed to like getting a job with an agency or something else? And also was web design always your plan? So I started, I got my degree in design. I actually knew in high school that I wanted to be a designer and.

I didn't have this dream of entrepreneurship. I was like, I mean, maybe when I'm like 45 I'll run my own business or something, but I, I come from a very, very small town. That's where I grew up. I don't live there anymore, but very like 20 kids in my class. So it was not exposed to a lot. And so I didn't have this like, oh, you can run your own business.

It was not a thought that crossed my mind. Interesting. And then, I mean, I was doing just creatives on the side in college and then still after college and was like, yeah, maybe someday just creatives will be a full-time thing. But that sounds super scary and I don't know how to do that.

And then things started to kind of pick up and I was in this Facebook group of freelancers who, and it was called Freelance to Freedom, and it was like people who wanted to take their business full time. And I still was kind of like, yeah, when I'm like 45. And then I started seeing like, wait, these people are also in their like early to mid twenties and working for themselves full time.

They don't have to wait until they're 45. Yeah. And I was like, what? I actually, my last corporate quote unquote corporate job was at an agency. That is a whole story in itself that is.

A hot mess. Um, and so while I was there, I actually was able to like really, really work on just creatives and grow it so much. Basically we thought, we think the agency was like a tax write off for this rich person. Mm-hmm. So what, I literally had no work. So I showed up to work every day with nothing to do for like nine months.

And so I just worked on, just created opportunity knocks, let's build it. Yeah. I love it. And so I was like, yeah, I'm gonna work for myself full time. And so eventually I realized it was like in ept August, September. I was like, wait, I have earned more in just creatives than I have at my day job.

Yes. For like the last like seven months. I was like, oh. Maybe I could like do this, maybe I could do this. And so, so I did and I went full time and it was obviously like, I think one of the best decisions I've ever made. I had a wait list of clients within two weeks. Um, because I, like, literally the day I started, I emailed everyone I'd ever worked with and was like, I'm full-time working for myself, so if you need something, let me know.

Or if you know somebody, and almost everybody was like, yeah, I actually need something. And I was like, oh wait, I love that. Um, just kidding. I need two weeks and then I can work on your project. So, yeah, it wasn't something I like dreamt of doing as a little girl or even in college, but then. Just experiencing like really horrible bosses and wanting something different for my life.

I was like, I think I wanna run my own business. Yeah. And there's an, there's a balancing act when you're an entrepreneur. Like I found, I mean, I've had versions of businesses where I had staff, uh, back in the day, and now I work completely alone. And it's either way, like when you own the whole brand and the business and it's your face and your work and your ideas, there's a lot of investment of time no matter what, because you just have to, because it's on your mind all the time.

Because usually, hopefully because you're excited and you're into it, um, and so I'm curious, do you work alone or do you work with other colleagues at all?

I am, I'm just me. I do have, two VAs that help me with a few things, but they're not client facing or client interacting at all. So it is So you wear all the hats, just me. I wear, I wear all the hats. It's, it's a wild ride. It's, it's, it's a journey of self-discovery, yes. So, so I'm really interested in, we talked a little bit about this beforehand, but, uh, this idea of niching down.

So I wanna talk a little bit first about just web design and SEO, but I wanna tie it into this idea of niching down, because you now work specifically with nutrition and fitness professionals. Mm-hmm. So your, your target client, your ideal client is you help build websites for health coaches, for people in the wellness industry and specifically nutrition focus.

Mm-hmm. Yeah. Um, this is, this is a very strategic decision and I'm, I'm curious what led to that decision. Yeah. So for some backstory, some context, when I started just creatives and, and really when I started working for myself, I was, anybody, like I would, I've worked with Chick-fil-A, I've worked with Georgia Tech University, I have worked with like national brands.

I've worked with somebody who was on the Biggest Loser at one time. Like I've worked with barbecue restaurants, private schools. Um, I've, I've done the gamut of, of clients and I slowly, over time, it went from like anybody and everybody to small business than to female small business.

And then I, it's always been service based. I've never really been in the products. I kind of, I think when I went small business, I said like, service based, and then it was in 2018. There was a lot of talk online about like, you need to niche down, you need to niche down. And it was like one of those, I don't wanna say trends 'cause I don't think it's trendy, but it was just a lot of talk and I was like, oh, I need, I need to niche down.

Like I, I think this is the thing I need to do. And so one of the things I was hearing was think about who you've enjoyed working with the most and what personal interests do you have that could maybe align with your ideal clients. And so I'm a type one diabetic. I've been diabetic since I was three years old, so my health has always been at the forefront of my life.

And I am a big fitness girly. I love to deadlift like all the things. So he, you know, it's all been, and I mean, I've been like that since. I was a kid. Like we had a Bowflex, if anybody remembers a Bowflex nineties, I, I know the Bowflex. And so like, we had a Bowflex when I was in like grade school and high school, college.

I was at the gym several times a week. And then since college, I'm at the gym three to four times a week. And so I was like, Hey, like I have this personal interest, but also I've had these two past clients that were personal trainers and I loved working with them. And so I was like, okay, I think I'm gonna like slowly niche down.

And, which is very unlike me because I am a very like all in person. Yeah. And I am, I'm also a quick action taker. Um, my closest friends like to joke that when I'm like, vox ring them about oh, I could maybe try this new service or like, do this workshop. And they respond an hour later. They're like, your sales page is probably already done by now, but I just wanted to respond with my thoughts.

And half the time they're right that like the sales page is done. And so me saying I'm gonna slowly niche down, it took me six years to like fully niche down. So what that looked like initially was when I, in 2018 I changed my Instagram bio. I started using really niche hashtags on Instagram back when that like mattered a lot.

Yeah. And then I've been, over the last six years I've been on a, like a lot of like dietician podcast and personal training podcast and. I've been in the space for a while, but if you went to my website, it was still just kind of like general business. Yeah. You might, you might notice that there's a lot of like dietician testimonials or like, my portfolio was very like heavy on like dieticians and personal trainers.

Um, but nothing else like spoke to that directly. And so it wasn't until last year in the fall of 2024 that I was like feeling this shift. It was kind of the same feeling I had in 2018 of like feeling like something needs to change. Feeling like I'm a little bit in a plateau. I feel like something I need to shift, like something's like feeling misaligned here.

And so last fall I was like, I'm gonna go all in on this space, which. To be honest, for a lot of people when I made the quote unquote announcement, it wasn't like a big thing. Like I just like made one reel and was like, I'm all in and I, you know, whatever. I feel like that's what I saw. Yeah, and most people who've been following me for a long time were like, I thought you were already doing this. Like, I'm confused. Um, that's, this is so interesting because I think the content that I foresaw about you, this makes so much sense to me right now.

This is ladies, gentlemen, whoever's listening, this is the algorithm and SEO at work. Mm-hmm. Inside your search engine. I, I have a degree as a nutrition coach. I worked for years. I ran a juice bar in New York City, so I have a background in wellness and nutrition specifically.

Mm. Yeah. I think I saw your post, probably probably threw it onto my feed because mm-hmm.

Talking about nutrition and then I was like, Hey, I, I'm, um, so it was so interesting and so I was there a moment when you were deciding to niche down, that you worried about like, turning away clients? Or what were the mindset shifts or challenges that you faced when you were deciding to niche?

Because this comes up a lot. Mm-hmm. And it's still, I mean, I don't think it's a trend. I think it's an entire strategy. Like niching down is saying. I'm going to narrow my lane so, so much that I'm only speaking to this one tiny demographic of people. And when we do that, typically what it does is it opens up a wide ocean because we're saying I'm only for women who work in health coaching and nutrition.

That's still millions of people. Yes. Now they can find you and say, oh, she's really for me. So, but I'm curious if there was a mental struggle or a mindset shift. Oh, a hundred percent. I mean that's why in 2018 I was like half in, half out of the niche and not, you know, like making my website. That's why it took you six years.

Yes. And then even so I'd started working with a business co coach in August and they, it was like two coaches actually, like they worked together and they had actually kind of suggested maybe you should go all in on this. And I was like, mm-hmm. No, I don't. It's too scary. It's too scary. Like, I don't know.

And they were like, okay, okay, whatever. And then I went to retreat in October and that group of people they were like, no, you need to go all in. Like it's, it's the right move. And so I think I have always until now, um, struggled with oh, I'm like excluding people.

This doesn't make sense. Like why would I push people away? But I can tell you that it makes SEO easier, it makes marketing easier. And I've had more opportunities since going all in just since October. And we're recording this at the beginning of March. Like it's not a super long Yeah.

Time span. And I've had more opportunities and better clients and I had. So January was a very big, like my, my biggest month of business ever. Part of that is just like, it's January, everyone is like, yay, new year, new website, let me book a project. Yeah. Um, but part of that was also because I was so specialized and all, almost all of my clients except one for 2025, have been in my niche and they almost all got my highest package, which is $2,000 more than my other package.

And so part of like why it's my biggest month is just they chose a larger package. But in January I got booked until May because everyone, like all these people were like, need a new website. And they see me as a specialist. And I always like to remind people and like, I, I used to say this even though I wasn't fully niched down, I was like not listening to my own advice.

But it's like when you go to the doctor and you're having like a specific. Problem with your ears, your gut, your, your brain, like whatever it is. You don't wanna just go to your primary care physician. Like, no, you want a specialist. You want a specialist. Sure, you might start at primary care to get a referral, rule out an ear infection.

Like make sure it's not food poisoning, whatever. But you are gonna want to go to specialists. I mean, think about how many times when we have chronic conditions or something, even not a condition, just a problem that like we have to go to like three different specialists of like maybe they can figure this out.

Like we want someone who really knows the industry and knows our specific problem. It makes you actually more appealing to the right people. And so I just had to remind myself of that, of like, I have so much joy working with these people. And even if you do specialize, like unless you are gonna be like, no, you have to be in this niche to work with me. There still might be people who want to. Reach out, and still work with you. Yeah. That's such a really good point. It's not that you're saying no to the other people.

Like I now speak exclusively to women in my content, my podcast, I, I say, Hey ladies. Mm-hmm. I just decided if the goal is to move the needle in my lifetime, I'm just gonna go all in on women. Mm-hmm. Like, I really wanna help women make more money.

I don't wanna apologize for that. When men reach out to me, which some on occasion they do, I'm so happy to work with them. Yes. I actually met a guy at Pod Fest who was like, I don't like that you're just saying that you work for women because men need your help too. I could, I need exactly the service that you offer. I was like, great, here's my number. Like, I can still help you. I'm not mad at, I'm not angry at you.

I just wanna make sure that women have all the support that they need. Mm-hmm. Coming from an, a woman who's been in the space a long time that they can trust, it's about identifying with people. It's about creating safe space. It's also like you said, like they see you as a specialist and the value goes up, you know?

Mm-hmm. So I think that niching down is really powerful and I love that you shared that you leaned heavily into what really makes me feel happy.

Mm-hmm. This work. Yeah. Yeah. Um, nerdy question about web design. Do you have like a favorite part of web design that when you're doing it, you're just like, yes, I'm, I'm doing this. Mm. Um. This is gonna be sound like really weird. Of course, I like the actual design, but I love like the, if it's someone's like first website or if I'm starting like a, from a fresh, like build or something, like if we're like moving hosts or something, I love like the setup of like installing the theme and like, here's all the pages and let me settle the default.

It only takes like five or 10 minutes, but it's just like a new, a new fresh slate and yeah, like the nerdy part of me just like loves that part. Of course then like actual, like the page layout is fun too. Um, but for some reason

when I'm setting up all the pages, it's almost like that same feeling when you're tidying up your desk, you know, and you're like, oh, let me like straighten my pins and my like, post-its and let me clean off the clutter. That's what it feels like. Yeah. When I, when I'm like setting, just setting up all the like defaults and whatever.

Um, so that is a very nerdy answer, but no, I love, I completely relate to that. It's kind of, I think I feel like I have a little bit of OCD about the, neatness of stuff. Mm-hmm. I was, my dad was in the army and growing up we always had to make our bed perfectly neat.

So now like desk and a clean slate. I'm like, yes. So cool. I love that. I think it's important to work with people who love what they do, you know? Mm-hmm. So I have a question that's kind of, it's not controversial, but I would love to get your take on this. I often. Have to have a conversation with my clients about whether or not to build a website.

Mm-hmm. And you actually posted something today that speaks to this. Exactly. I think your thread was something like. When I hear in an inquiry call, somebody say that they just want their website to be a static encyclopedia and they're not gonna use it.

Yes. Yeah. You're like, I'm not your girl, I'm not. Mm-hmm. Websites are not just a shirt hanging on a hanger in the rack, in the closet. Right. Should be functional in work for you. So my question is, when is it the right time to build a website? Yeah, so I agree. Like I know a lot of people expect me as a web designer to be like, you need a website from day one. It is going to make your life easier. Or if you decide to hire somebody right off the bat, it's going to make the process so much easier if you are solid on your messaging, your niche, if you have one, your offers.

Because when you're just starting out. You typically don't have all that information like right off the bat, unless, I don't know, you're just like an overachiever or something, but you have to like work through this because that's gonna make the website so much easier. Because part of what makes a website work really well for your business and actually serve your business is if it's super clear.

Because if I come to, so for like My Health Pros . It is not effective. If I come to your website and it just says, I help you live a healthier, happier life, because what the crap does that mean? Like you could be a dietician, you could be a yoga coach, you could be a life coach, you could be a lot of things, and I know somebody listening is like, yes, but like context clues of like maybe the business name or the picture that's next to it or like whatever.

Sure. But a lot of times when I, when I see the, I help you lead a healthier, happier life. It's a picture of a lady like dancing in a field or like smiling at her coffee or something. Like, it doesn't give context. And so being really specific is going to help your RCO. It's going to help people see that they're in the right place, and so it's gonna help your conversions and help people stay on the site longer.

And so, without all that clarity and that foundation, the website is gonna be vague. It's not gonna have a ton of information 'cause you're gonna be like, packages coming soon. Yeah. That's such a gold nugget. Just to recap, you do the work of finding out who you are as a service provider.

Work with some clients, get some results. Mm-hmm. Figure out how you talk, figure out what you love. 'Cause a website is work too. Mm-hmm. Yes. Going back to, you know, the early two thousands when I built my first website, I hired somebody who paid them a ton of money.

But I learned it along with them because I knew I would be, and it was in WordPress, I knew I would be maintaining it and the, if I could get back the decade of my life, I spent updating my fricking WordPress website because I didn't know what I was doing. Mm-hmm. I just didn't know what, I didn't know what I was doing.

Yeah. I was learning how to be a business owner. I was learning how to be a service provider. I was learning how to run a, you know, a multifaceted business. Okay, so what about people who say, but I'm multifaceted. I'm a multi-passionate entrepreneur. Any thoughts on how to deal with web design?

If you're an established entrepreneur and also do more than one thing, how do you advise on multi-passionate?

Yeah, so that's a good question. So it kind depends, but I have some, steps to think about or whatever. I remember several years ago somebody inquired and it was like, they offered, I think it was like wedding planning and interior design, and they wanted this all in one website.

And I was like, this is not what website. So my first thing is that sometimes it cannot be in the same website. Like it, it just can't, like you're just gonna need to do two websites. And usually what I tell people is like, okay, well do you want the revenue split from these businesses to be 50 50?

Or do you want like your wedding planning to be 70%, 80%, and the other one to be like 10 to 20%? Well, then I would say. Focus this website on the wedding planning, and then get like a one page just basic website for the interior design to just have a place to send people. But like, maybe you're just only doing it for referrals or you know, something just kind of as it comes in, but you're really spending most of your energy on the wedding planning.

Now, if you're like, no, I want it 50 50 or a hundred percent, a hundred percent. Like, I'm running, I'm someone who's running two full-time businesses and I have staff and like whatever. Okay. Then those businesses are separate and they deserve their own website. You can't combine everything. I know it, like, it seems easier and you don't wanna have to pay for another website, but like, if you're treating it like a real business, it deserves its own website. Yeah.

Now the other, the flip side of that is, are you positioning yourself as more of a personal brand and not necessarily a business? For example, I have my web design, like just creatives is my business. That's it's, that's it. That's really me. But if I wanted to start a, like personal brand, I could see a website that is, you know, like jessica freeman.com or whatever.

And yes, it mentions that I'm a designer, but I'm also an author and Right. Like maybe I have like a fitness blog or something. And, maybe, you know, like I used to be a foster parent, and so I Oh, interesting. Advocate. For that. Well, like, I, not a ton, but that could be something on the site, but it's not, I'm not gonna be selling my just creative services necessarily through that personal brand.

But maybe this site is more positioning me as a speaker and an author and just, you know, general consulting or something. But yeah, if you've evolved in your career to the point where you really are established as doing more than one thing, and it like if you're a speaker, an author, and also a service provider.

Mm-hmm. Or if you've evolved beyond just a one Mormon solopreneur, it could make sense to just have your website, be your name, personal brand. My website is my name, personal brand. I chose that but I do feel sometimes, like the business that I run that is the coaching services kind of, it's a little bit confusing. So it's something I think about a lot. Like, do I wanna change the name?

To be clear, I don't believe you have to have a fancy business name. You can run a business like you are, with your name. I have a ton of clients who, they don't have a quote unquote business name.

They're just themselves and that's their business. Yeah. And so it would just, it's more how you are positioning yourself and the messaging. And then that affects obviously the website layout, but someone who's coming to mind is, Barbara Cochrane, the Shark Tank lady. Yeah. Yeah. So she's a shark.

She does real estate stuff. I don't even know what else she does. I think she does some other stuff, but I can see Barbara Cochrane's website being like, I'm Barbara, I am a real estate shark, I am a investor, I am, you know, like whatever.

And it really just talking about all the things she does without having to be selling the exact services. Now, obviously she's kind of like a celebrity, so this is a little bit different, but it's, it's how she's positioning herself. And I imagine she actually has like a dedicated website also for the real estate and she just talks about it on the personal brand.

Yeah. Um, but also I wanted to say to going back to like if you have multi, like multi-passionate things, so we've talked about like separate websites, positioning yourself as a personal brand. The other thing is sometimes you can have things. All together on one site. I so far I've made it sound like you can't, like there's just no combining things.

It just has to, in my opinion, it has to be somewhat related. Right? That's the thing. It has to be like, somewhat related. So for me, my website is mostly web design and SEOI do have consulting, like just general business consulting that I do. It's very rare. I don't do a lot of it. I don't market it because it's just kind of like, as people need it, find it, whatever.

I didn't set up a whole other website for it, right? Because it's close enough related to what I already do, you know, like it's still for business owners. Um, so it's, it's not so random that someone would land on this page and be like. What is this? This is so weird. You know? Whereas like the books that I've written, the books has its own website.

It's linked, it's like mentioned just very small on my website because it's not business related. So I'm not making a big deal about it on my business website. And in terms of SEO search engine optimization, you're a strategist, this is what you do. Mm-hmm. Help your clients intentionally place words on their website.

Mm-hmm. That will help them search rank and search engines. So can you talk a little bit about in terms of niching down what that does for SEO, like and how Yes. Strategy there? Yeah. So I always tell people that niching down is really, really good for SEO. Now, obviously I'm not saying just niche down for the sake of SEO, I'm just saying it's another like added benefit Yeah.

For niching down. Because when we're doing keyword research, finding what do I wanna try to rank for? It can be really difficult just to try and rank for nutrition coach because there's, that's a very broad term and or for me, like just web designer, that's a very, very competitive term. Yeah. Versus if you are niching down to nutrition coach for women or for moms or whatever it is.

And for me, small business, website design, dietician, website design, those kinds of things makes it easier to rank. And Yes, most of the time a more niche term is also a little bit lower search. 'cause obviously like nutrition coach might had like 70,000 searches and maybe nutrition coach from moms has like 350, but you actually have a chance at ranking for the more niche term, which is what we want.

Yeah. And I mean, think about like if you had 350 people see your website every single day. And then like, you know what, if you had 350 inquiries come into your business in the next like three weeks, you would be overwhelmed. You might be happy, but you would probably be overwhelmed. Yeah, no, that's a lot of inquiries.

It's so interesting when you put I, somebody said this the other day, I was like. People get so upset when they get 20 likes on their post and they feel like it's a failed attempt at putting out car content. I'm like, girl, 20 people just looked at your thing and gave you feedback. That's 20 human beings that are out there.

Yeah. There's people on the other end of these data points. Yeah. Yeah. And I know that often, like you've probably also heard the, when people are like, yeah, but like what if you had 20 people in the room with you?

You know? And Yeah, sure. But I al like for me as a one-to-one service provider, I'm like, if I had 20 people in choir, I would be booked until next year. Right. That's, that's your gig. That's it. You know, like I'd be like great 20 people in choir. Well if they all signed up, um, just 'cause they inquired doesn't mean they hire me.

But you know, if I had 20 people inquire and book me like, fantastic, I'm booked till next year. Love it. Like see ya, see you 2026. Yeah. And you're good. Exactly. I love that. So you just recently did something very cool and I have to ask about it. It's, yeah. You posted online, a questionnaire that I filled out actually.

It's called the State of Online Business. Mm-hmm. Number one. Yes. Did you just like, make this up on your own and is it just like your thing that you do? And number two, what were some of the most surprising or eye-opening insights that you learned by conducting this research of the state, of the online?

State of online business? Yes. Okay. So I'm gonna pull this up so I can talk to you about it. Oh good. So I did this last year in 2024 and I saw it, I'm in a Facebook group of web designers and the host did this type of survey, uh, of just web designers and people like in the group and on his email list.

And I think it was like he got a couple hundred responses or whatever and I was like, oh, this is so cool, but I wanna see this for all my friends, like not just web designers. Yeah. And so I was like, I'm gonna do this. I'm gonna do this for just online business. Um, maybe eventually I'll do one for the health niche.

But right now I, I really like the broad one, so, and I'll send you the link so people can like, look at it in the show notes or whatever. Yeah. So I had three over 300 people respond. I'm not gonna go over everything, but we look at like, where do they live? How much do they make, how many people are on their team so that we have like context of what type of businesses and stuff.

And so one of the most interesting things, the annual gross revenue for 20 24, 20 1% of people had an annual gross revenue of 20 to $50,000. And I was like, and then the other, the next highest percentages were 50 to a hundred thousand and then a hundred to 200,000 for last year. And I'm like, this is what people need to see because there's all these big people out there talking about how I had a $50,000 month, I made half a million dollars.

Yeah. And like, you know, all this stuff. And I'm like, um, I mean, and obviously this is 300 people, but like there's, I do have people who marked that they made a million dollars or half a million dollars, but they're very small percentage. Yeah. And so, um, yeah, the the average online business owner who's really doing all the things and showing up and using top of funnel social media and having smart marketing and SEO, it's a decent living.

Yeah. You can make the money if you get your machine and your operations set up and running. But not everybody is making 50 KA month. That's right. No really, really good point to make. Um, of course this really stood out

one of the things we looked at is I ask about tech platforms that people are using for different things. One of is like, what website platform are you using? And they have the option to say I don't have a website. 90% of those without a website made less than $50,000 in 2024. And I've had several people be like, oh, I bet you love that stat.

I'm like, I sure do. Um, so that was really interesting also we asked about like email marketing and those who said they don't do email marketing. 37% also said. They had an annual revenue of less than $50,000 and I was like, it's, I put this in the report. I was like, based on these two data points, it's safe to say that you should prioritize your website and your email list.

Yeah. If you wanna make more than 50,000. Say it again For the people in the bank, I really honestly, I mean, I ultimately having a website and SEO plugged in and, some type of smart automated lead growth system is gonna give you your life back. Yes. Um, but I think email is such a turnoff to people and I, I'm like, I get it. But it works. Like the data does not lie. I mean, it's, yeah, I get it.

You think that email is 1990s? I get it. You get, you hate spam. I get it. You cringe when you get 20 emails from that one person who is relentlessly, just like pelting you with emails. Mm-hmm. I, but also, if somebody says yes, I want the information that you have to offer and they opt in for your free training, your, you know, your event that you're hosting to download a chapter of your book.

Like if you put something out there and say, Hey guys, this is my, this is a little snippet of what I do, and somebody says, I want that. They're saying, I want to hear from you. Mm-hmm. The door's open. You are invited into their laptop on their desk at the top of their day. There's no better real estate than they said.

Yes, you can come to me at my desktop, in my email. Mm-hmm. It just doesn't exist. No, no. Social media will compete with it to, to me, to my mind. I haven't seen, I mean, the statistics are out there. Yeah. And the data doesn't lie. So email marketing is still not only alive and well, but it's critical. However, and this is one of my questions for you.

Did I see recently, did I see that you posted potentially that you stopped doing email or you stopped, you, you made a change in the way you do email marketing. Can you talk about that a little bit? That your strategy? Yes, yes. Okay. So I, so I'm a believer in email marketing, but for me personally, it has not.

Converted well to clients. I think in the last 10 years I've had like one person become a client from my email list. Um, and maybe, uh, and when I say that, I mean like, they responded to an email and said Hey, like how can I work with you now? Yeah. Like, I'm thinking of somebody that I'm actually working with.

Like right now she is on my email list, but she also follows me on Instagram and she actually reached out through Instagram. So I'm like, in theory the email is supporting our , relationship, or maybe the emails helped convince her to work with me. Yeah. You know, but that's like, it's hard to.

Put that into data. So, um, there is some, there is some existing data that says like a multi Yes. People need six to seven points of contact. Yes, absolutely. To establish trust that you are real. Like, so your email newsletter might not be , they're not reading every word, especially in this day and age

oh yeah. But maybe they're like, oh, look how consistent and real she is. Because every week she does send out that newsletter that does talk about her podcast. That's also real. Yeah. It could just be like the reinforcing of that you are who you say you are. Mm-hmm. Which side note, one of the other data points from the report, the survey that I did showed that higher earners build trust through collabs, referrals and SEO and those who make less.

Show, like based on the data and everything, that they're very dependent on social media and they lack the diversity that they need in their marketing channels. Oh, say that again. So people, the higher earning categories mm-hmm. Rely on collabs, like collaborations, like with people referrals and SEO Yeah.

And, and social media. Like, they're not, like, not on social media, but they really are like connection based. Yes. Whereas people who make less are really only focusing on social media and they, like, they aren't as diverse in their marketing channels. Yeah. And so they're like showing up in less places. And I, and this is a cliche thing to say, and, and any great coach or leader in the online space will say these words, but let's say it again, never build your business on borrowed land.

Oh yeah. No, just don't do it. Build a website because that's your own and that's and your email list. Yes. So, okay, back to the, you asked my email strategy. Yes. So two years ago, I think it was, um, I set up what I call like my evergreen year long email sequence. So most people you hear like, oh, set up a welcome sequence, set up a , nurture sequence.

And usually welcome sequence is anywhere from five to eight emails, whatever. Yeah. Um, so mine is literally, I think it's actually like a few weeks longer than a year. So I made an evergreen sequence so that I don't have to actually go in and email my list every week. So people join my list.

They get the like freebie or whatever they signed up for, and then they just get added to the sequence. And so it's evergreen content. For context also, remember I've been in business for 14 years. I started blogging in 2013. I started podcasting. No, I started YouTube in 2016 and I started podcasting in 2017.

So I have a crap ton of content. Yes and no. I mean, yes, I have deleted things over, like blog posts I wrote in 20 15, 20 13 are probably not on my site anymore. I've deleted some of them, um, podcasts like. I'm on my third podcast now. The last two don't even exist anymore. I, they're scraped from the internet.

Right. But I have all this content and so it's a mix of just like authority based content. It's thought leadership content. I am occasionally pointing people to my YouTube channel to podcast. Um, there are like emails in there that's like, Hey, like you need to learn SEO, like here's my training. You know, whatever.

But it's evergreen content, so it's not like, Hey, my workshop is happening next week. I still do that as needed, but this sequence goes out every Tuesday. And as far as I know, from my perspective, they don't even know that it's evergreen. They don't realize that 'cause it's not, it doesn't feel evergreen.

Yeah. Like it's just another email. Um, and then so I have that, and then once a month, at the end of the month, I send out an additional email that is more like. Hey, here's my recent videos and 'cause the Evergreens sequence, it only is pointing people to a handful of like YouTube videos and podcasts.

I can't possibly link them to every single one. Yeah. And so at the end of the month I'm like, here's like some content. And it doesn't, I don't like address that. Hey, I haven't emailed you a month in a month or something. You know, like, it just is like, this week you're getting, they're getting two emails from me and they don't seem to mind.

So yeah. I love this strategy so much because I think that there's a diff I, I really believe that business is so highly individualized. It's really about what it should be, about what makes you feel good. Mm-hmm. Your business should serve your highest goal for your lifestyle and not just trap you in a cage of mundane Right.

T that you hate and loathe those days are gone. We used to do that. Mm-hmm. We don't do that anymore. And so it's like, yes, you get to build the business that reflects what brings you feelings of excitement and joy. Um, side note, I still sit at my computer and write every single freaking email that it goes out, but it's partly because I just love to write. Like, it's one of the things I love and I like, I like telling relevant stories that are of the moment. That being said, I have several evergreen green sequences that I feel such relief knowing that they exist.

Mm-hmm. There's two different strategies at play. Like I'm emailing you all the time because that's just what I'm doing. But or not all the time, weekly. But, uh, I, I rely heavily on the weight that gets lifted when anyone grabs one of my free offers mm-hmm. Or watches a training that I did last year, and then they want more they can get on my email.

Yeah. Right then. And they are, and then they're gonna get a nurture series that helps 'em know who am I, what is my background, why should they care what I have to say? What else can they learn from me? Like those basic things. And knowing that those are set up and exist, it lets me go on vacation. It helps me sleep at night.

Mm-hmm. Yes. Because the leads come in and they're taken care of. Mm-hmm. So that strategy is amazing. I, I actually have never heard anyone say that they set up an entire year before, so I'm impressed to say the Yes. Yeah. I, I might be docked opposite. It's so funny. Yeah. I, so a friend gave me the idea because she knew of someone else who did it.



Yeah. I literally, what I did when I first set it up is I went through my previous like year of emails and looked at what performed best and then kind of tweak those to be more evergreen if they weren't. Um, and then I repurposed like some Instagram captions, some blog posts. Like I know some email marketers are probably cringing right now, but like to be totally transparent for me, I do enjoy writing and so it's not that I don't enjoy emails, but I was just like, I'm having to take time out of my schedule every week to write an email that is not really serving my business.

Yeah. Like it's not, it's not bringing me clients. And it might eventually obviously but I will say. Um, so I re, like I did that first year long sequence two years ago. I did a new one at the end of last year and 'cause I was like, oh, I wanna like redo it, like just more, you know, fresh content and whatever.

And, um, well two things. One, I didn't actually do that like monthly, end of month email, um, in October, November, or December. And then January was my biggest month of revenue ever. And so I was, and it, because people were still getting my sequence and so I didn't care that I didn't have my end of month email.

And it was just like. Whatever, but you're basically, the data inside your business is showing you, this is not a place you need to focus energy on, but you have, have, but you know that it is over overall, strategically, it is valuable. So you have it Yes. Just preset and set it and forget it. Mm-hmm. Yes. So, and for people listening, I, I do feel like this is a great counter perspective to kind of what I do, which is actively writing emails sometimes twice a week because I do think I have my podcast and then I have whatever offers I'm selling.

Um, there's different ways to approach it. Mm-hmm. And you should follow the data. Always, always, always mine your experiences for data. And if you don't have data yet, go out and serve some clients and get some data.

Yeah. So I redid my sequence, like I mentioned at the end of. Like this past year, end of 2024. And so I redid it like fresh content, but it was also after I had niched down like fully. And so I wanted to make my emails more niche as well and more specific and my open rate.

I already had a good open rate. That's the other thing. I have a really good open rate and I always have, like, I am easily always above like 50, 60%, um, open rate for my emails. So it's like, it's not that people aren't opening my emails, they're just right. Not buying, they're just not hiring. Um, right. Maybe.

And so your, your offer is something that they need to make a big decision? Yes, it is. And that's part of it. Um, but I've, so my open rate went even higher. So like once I niched down and redid, like my sequence, open rate went even higher. And I also don't get a ton of interaction or replies to my emails.

Never have. I see people all the time who are posting like, look, I sent out this email, and they have like 15 responses. Again, 10 years of an email list. I feel like once a year someone responds to my emails, even though I like do the thing where you ask them to respond or like, tell me your thought, no, doesn't work.

Um, but I've gotten people who have responded and they're like, I love this email. And I was like, oh. And I think part of it was because I had niched down and was talking more specifically to them. Um, I will say I also like cleaned my email list. So I told them, Hey, I'm niching down if you're not health and wellness, like, feel free to hop off.

So I cut like it wasn't even in half. It was like I cut like three-fourths of my list off deleted them. And so that I think also led to the like higher open rate, but I'm way more specific in the content. And so that. You know, has been interesting to see just the open rate people. A few people have responded and just been like, I love this.

And I'm like, it's all because of the niche. Yeah. It all comes back to the niche. So it's so interesting. I'm so glad we're talking about this. So slightly more general. Um, if somebody has a website but they're not getting a lot of traffic, like you can look behind, you know, you can look at the insights on your pages, how many views are they getting?

Is it converting to people, you know, inquiring about your services or buying your product or service? Uh, and if you're not getting a lot of traffic or you're not getting a lot of conversions or whatever, what is the first thing that you would recommend they do to improve their SEO? Just to kind of get better searches?

Yeah. So the first thing is really looking at what keywords you're using. So even if you're like, Jess, I, I don't, I'm not using keywords. I don't know what you're talking about. I don't know, like, am I using SEO? I don't know. Just release, like, yes, we could get into keyword research and stuff, but that's a whole other podcast.

So yeah. That's a separate podcast. Yeah, we're not gonna get into that. Super simple. What do you wanna be known for? If someone searches a, a phrase, a term, a job title, a question, whatever it is, what do you wanna pull up for that? That is what you need to be using on your site and in the backend. So just Google, whatever platform you're using, how to update SEO settings.

And there will be videos and tutorials that will show you like where that box is to put the SEO title, but it also needs to be on the front of your site. So. Again, if your homepage headline is like, I help you live a healthier, happier life, that's not specific, that's where you need to be. , I want to be known as a, you know, dietician for moms or a business coach for women.

That needs to be on the actual page and ideally in your headline, each one, right? It's gotta be right there at the top. The words people might type into the search engine need to be in your, heading in your headline. Mm-hmm. Yes. And yes, we can get into, again, we can get into keyword research and what's good and bad, but even just doing this and being more specific is going to move you in the right direction.

I do wanna point out every single page needs a different keyword. So like you do, not you, Debra, do not want to put business coach for women as the headline on every single page, because then Google thinks you're being spammy. You're. Like keyword stuffing. So you might have like business coach for women, business mentor, um, it might be like business coaching services and like these are all considered different keywords.

Yeah. So even though they're very, very similar, they're considered different. And so I don't even know if any of those are good keywords or not, but just as an example, like putting that on because yes, this is gonna help SEO. As I said, like that's gonna move you in the right direction, but it's also way more specific and it's going to help people know what you offer.

Yeah. Because going back to that vague headline of Happy, healthy Life or whatever, I don't know what you offer, I like, I don't feel like scrolling and figuring this out. You're giving them more clarity. They know they're in the right place. Yeah. And so then they're like, Ooh, okay. Like, I am looking for a business coach.

And so thinking about, I. What you wanna be known for, be really specific. It's gonna help the SEO, but it's gonna help people stay on your site as well. So helpful. So you sent me a link to a quarterly training.

Could you just quickly talk about that and what is that? Yeah, yeah. So I am 2025. I'm doing. Mini like miniature, uh, quarterly summits for people in the health and fitness space. And so it's a one day summit. It's like five to six speakers. It's free, but it's all tailored to people in the health and fitness niche.

So, um, it's just, you know, we, we had one in January, the next one is in April, and then July and October. And you can come learn about like, Instagram, email marketing, um, you know, just different things like that. And it's free. You get to just like, learn from some, some experts, coaches in the space. And so, yeah, you can check that out. It's just creatives.com/rx is the link for that. Amazing. I have the link and I will put that in our show notes so everybody can join. Health coaches, nutrition coaches, check out Jess's website.

All of her links will be in the show notes for this episode. Um, she is really good at what she does. And so I have a final question for you that I love to always ask at the end of my interview, which is, what is something that you are excited about right now or just really looking forward to, whether it's in your business or just in life in general?

Um, I would say right now planning where my husband and I are gonna go on vacation in the fall, like we're trying to figure it out. We take like a yearly trip, just us and leave our daughter with family. And so we're trying to narrow down where we wanna go. And so right now we're thinking either like Scotland or Switzerland.

Oh. So we'll see. We'll see. Scotland is a bucket list of mine. I've never been there. And that sounds amazing. Um, amazing. I love that, that you're planning a vacation that's such a, yeah. That's, that's, that's the dream. It's like, okay, I am doing my job. I'm working my business. Mm-hmm. But as we're gonna take this big vacation, I love that.

Yeah. Yeah. That was so good. I feel like I could talk to you for hours about this stuff, and I would love for you to come back and get into some of those little, um, even more juicy parts of Yes. Design and SEO if you're interested. So yes, I would love to thank you so much for being here with me today. Is there anything else you wanna say before we sign off?

Um, my best advice is always just to be more clear on your website. I don't think there's ever such a thing as being too clear. So clarity can help so many things. Um, so that's my, my best advice. That's amazing Advice. Clarity. Clarity. Clarity. That's such good advice. Yes. Thank you so much, Jess. Have an amazing rest of your day.

And for all, everyone listening, thanks for being here with us and we will see you this time next week. And until we meet again, may you be vibrant.