#94 - Data-Driven Funnels & Diagnostic Assessments That Convert – with Maeve Ferguson

What if your lead magnet didn’t just collect email addresses but actually sorted, scored, and qualified your dream clients?

In this jam-packed episode, I sit down with Maeve Ferguson, business strategist and creator of The Client Engine, a powerful system that turns your intellectual property into an evergreen lead generation machine.

Maeve shares the secrets behind diagnostic assessments (aka quiz funnels on steroids), and how she uses data + segmentation to help clients attract high-ticket buyers without wasting time on dead-end discovery calls.

Here’s what we unpack:
 → The difference between a fun quiz and a diagnostic assessment
 → The most important metrics that matter at every funnel stage
→ How to score and sort leads based on buying readiness
→ Why your sales calls should start with data, not guesswork
→ The one mistake most experts make with lead magnets (and how to fix it)

Maeve brings a refreshing, no-fluff approach to marketing with deep wisdom from her background in private equity and years running a multi 6-figure business… all from a horse farm in Ireland 🐎🌧

If you’re ready to work smarter, optimize your funnel, and stop shouting into the void, this is a must-listen.

LINKS & RESOURCES:
💻 Take Maeve’s Impact Score Assessment: https://impactscoreassessment.com

 🧠 Learn more about The Client Engine: https://maeveferguson.com/application

🎧 Listen to Maeve's podcast here --> https://www.maeveferguson.com/experttothoughtleader

Mindset to Market is a Luminous Creative Production. If you'd like to learn more about our business coaching program and group coaching container, please visit us online at DeborahcSmith.com.

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Mindset to Market is produced by Deborah C. Smith and designed to inspire and support big-hearted creatives in finding their own unique path, building a sustainable business, and creating financial, spiritual, mental wellness and abundance.

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💕 Visit Deborah online at DeborahCSmith.com
💕 Follow on the 'Gram. @deborah_smith_coaching

Transcript

 All right, you guys. Welcome back to the show. I'm really excited to have a special guest today. Her name is Mae Ferguson and she's a business strategist and the creator of the Client Engine, which is a proven system that helps authors, consultants, and entrepreneurs transform their intellectual property into evergreen lead generation machines.

Yes, please. And she specializes in what she refers to as diagnostic assessments. Which we're gonna get into today. I am excited about this term. Um, quiz funnels and basically data driven systems, right? So Mave helps experts attract, qualify, and convert high ticket clients at scale. And she's coming from a background in, uh, private equity.

So she brings a unique blend of corporate strategy, entrepreneurial speed, both to the table, and her clients range from bestselling authors to global speakers who wanna scale without shouting into the void, right? Or wasting time on unqualified leads, which is a huge time suck. Once you get your offer set up and you're really doing business, you're starting to make sales, you're serving clients, you'll realize the time that you spend on a sales call is your money.

And so I love this conversation we're about to have because it's gonna be about data, and the nerd in me is lit up about that. Um, but also it's really about saving your time because as an entrepreneur, especially as a solopreneur who maybe doesn't have a team yet. Time is money. That's time you could be spending with your family or at the beach.

So if we can find a way to, uh, pre-qualify leads at scale, that is gonna be an incredible help. Um, Maeve has been featured in Forbes. She's appeared on C-B-S-N-B-C-A-B-C, and she leads a multi six figure business while also raising two young kids. Guys ready on a horse farm in Ireland. Dreams do come true.

Um, I love this. So, Mave, welcome to Mindset to Market. Thank you so much. Thank you so much for having me, and thank you for that beautiful introduction.

You're welcome. You're in Ireland. I'm so excited. I've had, I think a few other international guests on the show, but nobody from Ireland. Oh, cool. Well, I, you know, I love the way you say, uh, dreams do come true. So it is a dream, but on a, a wet November day, it can make you question your life choices. And I would maybe rather be in the sunshine summer.

Yeah. Uh, but yeah, it is, it is pretty amazing. Ireland is on my bucket list. My family, uh, we've got some type of ancestral roots in County Cork, so it's like a dream of mine to visit there someday. So. Fabulous. So I would love to just start, take me back to the moment that you decided to leave a private equity firm and focus on helping entrepreneurs build more diagnostic assessments yeah, so I absolutely love this. Um, I, I'll keep the kind of how, how I exited corporate and ended up in this entrepreneurial world that we are all in.

I'll keep that one brief because it's a pretty long story. Um, but basically, so I was, um, an accountant in a past life. Worked in private equity, trained in Ernst and Young in London for many, many years. And then, um, whenever I was working in the private equity place, I, um, kind of, one of my highest values is continuous improvement.

So I kind of ran that global function, uh, worked with like armies of accountants who were doing all of these accounts for private equity firms and, um, really, really numbers driven person, kind of knowing your numbers, knowing your, what I call your metrics that matter. Um, it is just kind of something that runs in my blood and you're either, um, into data and numbers or you're not.

But the truth is, if you actually want to be the CEO and run a proper business, even if you don't like the numbers, you simply have to. And, um, so whenever I left corporate, so I caught a virus, spent four years of my life in bed, like disgustingly sick. And whenever I recovered from that, I did go back for a couple of weeks and then was like, uh, no.

So left corporate, jumped into this world. Um, at this stage I did not, I had never even heard of a funnel, didn't know what it was, didn't know what lead generation was like. Anybody who's new in this game is completely green as grass. And very quickly discovered that, um, even though I'd retrained as an executive coach, very quickly realized that I was, you know, superb at the systems funnels, automation.

Understanding what our funnels and all of our KPIs are telling us. And then with amazing proof of concept of quiz funnels and how they are the only way to bring hyper qualified leads into your business. I had evidence of that in my own business. Um, I just went down that just from down that rabbit hole and have never looked back because it is the ultimate way of making sure that we're not having these horrendous discovery calls with people instead of just having what I call how, uh, how does it work and when can we start conversations?

Yeah. Yeah. I love this because first of all, data, I'm like the very geeky friend who's like, when everyone's splitting the bill at the end of the dinner or something, I'm like, I got this, you guys, math is my thing. Love it. I love it. I, I just, you know what it is, the world is chaotic and crazy and math, maths, it's like cute juice or it's always, always clean.

It's always correct. It's very, um, satisfying for me to be like, yeah, that's, those two things add up and then move on.

So data and metrics, you said metrics that matter. Mm-hmm. Can you tell me what you think are the metrics that matter? Yeah. So, absolutely. So it a, it depends on your business model and type of business. But let's assume we are in the expert industry.

We are coaches, we are consultants, and there are various stages of our funnel where we gotta know these numbers. And what happens with most people is they're, nobody wants to buy my thing. And then they go and either burn their entire business to the ground and start over, or they get into their heads and think that it's them.

But what they're looking at is metric number 27, like way, way, way, way, way down the funnel. And there are a thousand holes in the leaky bucket prior to that number of them feeling like nobody wants to buy what I have to offer. And the very, very first piece is, um, there's kind of like a, there's a qualitative piece to it and a quantitative piece.

And for me, the qualitative piece of top of funnel is rich niche positioning. So if we are speaking to a broke ass market, if we're speaking to inner copy, I Facebook ads on our LinkedIn posts, whatever we're doing, if we're speaking to what I call like a broke ass market, um, we are gonna be broke.

So that's kind of the qualitative attraction piece, top of funnel. But then what we have is we have to have a mechanism to bring cold strangers on the internet into our worlds know, like, and trust us, realize how we can solve their problems, and then make them an offer. And then they say yes, or they say no.

And what would the next, so the metric of the first very, very, very top of funnel metric is what is that landing page conversion? And this is where we get into kind of the quiz funnel conversation, the diagnostic assessment conversation. 'cause what most people have up here is some horrendous PDF thing that nobody ever opens, nobody ever reads.

They spent God, how many hours making this beautiful thing on Canva. With a call to action, and it doesn't actually do anything inside of their business. It's not moving the needle. It's not giving us any data. Even when people do opt in, the data that it's given us is the name, the email address, and maybe to push their phone number.

Right. And it doesn't tell us any description of whether this person is a $10 lead or as in they'd be able to invest $10 in themselves if they live in their car or they are a multimillionaire who's ready to drop 200 K and for whom a 10 K contract is like. A, a $20 bill. Yeah. It's like, you know, we have, we have our services range, you know, from the bottom end thing right up to like 70, 80, 90,000.

And for, for our people at that 70, 80 k, it's, that is like a tenor to some people. Yep. But we have to be inside of our funnels, we gotta know who are those people that are those high ticket people and who are the low ticket people. And then we've gotta put the right message and the right offer in front of the right person at the right time.

What that allows you to do within the quiz funnel is not only categorize your people into type A, type B, type C, type D in terms of the struggles that they are having, but also what we've gotta do then is the lead classification where it is, this is a tier one lead. So this is, we, we build a lot of AI agents for our clients as well, and those agents are working.

Agents are working every single day automatically, obviously, um, where they are identifying as new leads come onto their list. This is a tier one lead. This is a two tier two lead. This is a tier three lead, and they're actually notifying their sales team instantaneously as soon as those tier one leads come on, so that they actually know who to give their attention to, who to spend their time on, who to nurture, who to go the extra mile with versus the lower quality leads in the lower class classified leads.

Just let your follow up nurture sequences. Take care of them. Okay. Okay. Yeah, so that's, yeah. And then back to Alex to answer your question in terms of the metrics. Then what we gotta do is, especially if you're running paid traffic, you know, what's your cost per lead? What is your earnings per lead? What is your cost to acquire a client?

What is your, you know, if you're using the profit first method, what is your, uh, what are you attributing from every client towards your overhead, towards your profit, towards paying yourself? All of these different things, those metrics at every single point. What's your quiz completion rate? What is your webinar or masterclass signup rate?

What's your show up rate? What's your retention rate? What's your click offer rate? Uh, from your click offer rate, what's your purchase rate? And what most people do, as I said, they say, oh, people aren't buying my thing, but they don't realize there are a hundred leaky holes in the bucket ahead of the funnel before somebody actually says yes or no.

Yeah. So, throughout your website you use the term diagnostic assessment. Yes. So is there a difference between a diagnostic, I mean, you just basically described like really intense metric tracking for like a robust funnel, which I love and I'm, I wanna maybe kind of break that down a little bit because I, a lot of my clients are service providers, like my personal clients mm-hmm.

Are service providers, meaning they, they offer a service, whether that be an in-person service or a coaching service or like a bookkeeping service or, you know, there's all different types of things. Like I have accountants and Right. So similar to our business model that we do Yeah. Because we have done for you service.

Yeah. So, I mean, obviously the goal is not to waste time bringing tons of people in who are never gonna buy from you. And like we do help, people build out their audience and the goal is to build them out with qualified leads. But I wanna, I wanna get into this because. Yeah, you talked a little bit about like the analytics that you can get from a basic landing page.

And so at the stage of business that a lot of my clients are in, they're, it's brand new to them to even be building an email list to even be building out. Okay. Yeah. But then when we get into the marketing piece, we've gotta build audience, we've gotta generate leads, and we've gotta convert leads. And so the metrics piece that you're talking about is where is critical to that process. Mm-hmm. So let's talk about diagnostic assessment versus a standard quiz that anybody could build in type, form, or , like a landing page for just a basic freebie, a giveaway.

Yeah, absolutely. Are they Absolutely, they're different. So they are, they are different, but they serve a similar purpose. Okay. So what I would say with the diagnostic assessments, these are, if you've ever been through Myers-Briggs, so like I'm INTJ or your Enneagram, I'm a three with a four wing, and we go through these, I do all through diagnostics.

Okay. Which are, we built, for example, um, the unicorn leadership type assessment for GenChem. Um, you know, multi figure brand strategists. We build these diagnostic assessments that are like a disc, like super complex, real IP built into the fabric of them. Quiz funnel builders cannot do these things.

They're not, the quiz funnel builders aren't smart enough to understand statistical modeling that goes on at the back end of Enneagram, for example. Okay. So that is what we would call diagnostic assessments, and it's just more data points, more, more detailed questioning. Yeah. Yeah. And the, the difference with that one, I would say is that these are for people who are on the cusp of thought leaderships leadership.

Okay? So they are just about to become thought leaders in the space. They're about to become the Simon Sinek of the world where everybody knows their name, where everybody knows my buyer, Briggs is INTJ, or you know, whatever, whatever yours may be. Okay. That is kind of the category of one household name assessments that we build for people with true intellectual property that want to become that household name one step, not back, it's not back in terms of quality, but a different model for these diagnostic assessments.

And this is actually the assessment that we have inside of our company is what's called a score based assessment. And what that does is it looks at your framework or your process or your model, and I'm sure you help your clients, you know, to define their frameworks and what's the process that they bring people through.

And we then ask their the lead questions as it relates to those, um, parts of your framework to then essentially put them into buckets or outcomes of, here are these types of people, here are these types of people, and here are that type of people. Okay? So for us, for example. In our impact score assessment, we score people on their ability to generate leads, the quality of their offers, um, and their ability to sell set offers.

That's the, what we call it, the foundation basic one oh one level. There's so many people out there who are out speaking, trying to like write a book and they don't even have leads in sales delton. And you're like, you gotta get the foundations in place first. Before we worry about writing a D book?

Okay. The name of my group coaching program is Foundations and what we do is offer creation, lead generation, and basic sales system. I'm literally like, if you don't have this, come through this program, get it, and then go write your book and then go sell. , So that's like, that's one category. Then we score people who are more advanced as well. This is all in the same assessment on team, um, systems and process. Okay? And then we do ecosystem as in, you know, your entire ecosystem online, your YouTube, your LinkedIn, all of the different platforms there.

Diagnostic ability and then leverage. Okay? So what that does for every single lead coming into our business. Just think about that, but apply it to, you know, if you're listening, apply it to your business and what your version would be. Mm-hmm. So then we, somebody essentially goes through that. They get a complete snapshot of here's where you are, here's where you're doing really amazing.

You don't need to worry about this at all. You're flying over here. This is going really well, but here is your, where you're struggling and therefore here's your your correct next step. 'cause what most people do is they're working on the wrong things. They're over here saying, people aren't buying my thing.

And they're trying, they change their offer, or they're like, change it from group coaching into a course. And it's like, that is never the problem. I agree. But they're always fixing the wrong thing. So what this does, it's a true diagnostic that shows you what you need to work on next. So from the leads perspective, it is super valuable because it's a, it's completely personalized to them.

It's not a generic PDF that other people have seen. It's literally just their report. Nobody else will have a report the same as them. The copy that people in category A get is completely different than people in category B is completely different than the people in category C. So it actually speaks to what they are going through and gives them so much personalized value so that no like, and trust factor that we talked about earlier is collapsed way, way down.

And then what happens is, so that's from the leads perspective. So they know, like, and trust you immediately even off the back of, of, uh, paid traffic. 'cause if you think of a PDF lead, magnet lead, people are barely even double clicking their phone to auto fill. Their email address,

it probably goes to spam. Then they look in their spam box and they're like, who the hell's that lady? And don't even remember signing up for your thing. The other, so when somebody spends 10 minutes going through your diagnostic, they want their report. They want to get the, and I actually use it as a filtration mechanism because we work with high end people.

Somebody can't pay attention for 10 minutes. They are not a good fisher. They're not a good match. They're not a good, yeah, we, we build companies, not hobby businesses. Okay. So we actually use it as a filtration mechanism. And then, so that's how amazing it is from the leads perspective.

But from our perspective as a business owner, we are able to go onto every sales conversation. So we actually have, you know, a sales team and things like that. Every single lead that comes into our company, we know exactly what they're struggling with, exactly where they are, because we have, we're able to pull up a dashboard of all of their results right in front of us.

So it gives us so much kind of a, a jumping off place for the sales conversation. And then also what happens is we are able to, the leads don't know that this is happening, but on the back end, we have built the system to tell us when they answered. This question and this question and this question in certain ways.

That means that we, they are what we call a tier one lead. Then my sales team get a Slack notification to say, tier one lead, here's their name, here's their email address, here's their phone number, and we are able to then have that conversation with them knowing that they are a tier one lead, whereas the tier four leads, we let our follow up nurture sequences handle then.

Okay. This is so interesting. So it's 'cause you usually, there's a great, uh, line on your website that says, when your audience sees themselves, clearly they see you as the only solution. And I think what you're saying is , the questions guide us as a user to think more about where are we at in our process?

Where am I ready for a coach? Am I ready for a program to build my foundations? Am I ready to hire a CPA? Am I ready to go get a massage? Am I ready to go, like sell my car and buy an eco car? Like these assessments are literally helping us decide who are we, where are we at in our journey as a human? So we see ourselves.

As like maybe not ready. Yeah. I also be route them. Yeah. And also route them or write them, as you guys say in America, route them towards the correct offer. So if somebody is telling you, all I can do today is a $47 thing, then give them that offer. Why would we jump on a sales conversation and say, well, this thing is like, you know, $15,000, they're not gonna be able to invest.

So we're able to siphon people off, people who are like, Nope, I'm never gonna invest in myself. Cool. There's my YouTube channel. You know, have fun. Okay. Yeah. I love, yeah, learn for free. We're not gonna spend time on you inside of our company if you've already told us that you're not going to invest in yourself.

Yeah. And then just to, to kind of close the loop on the question you asked earlier about the quiz funnel. What I would say is, you mentioned one there about, am I ready for a massage or what's, what type of massage do you need? That would be more of an example of a really fun quiz funnel, because quizzes are super, super powerful.

They're not as what I would call heavy as a diagnostic. Yeah. So for certain niches, certain industries where it's, and it's, we're not talking about what type of Disney princess are you, nonsense, but light, fun, easy lead qualifiers. Um, if you are in a thing where they don't need like a deep diagnostic, they, you just need qualified leads.

You need to know what are the struggles of these people and who are the people who are gonna pay me? Then a quiz funnel is a superb option for that. Okay. This is great. This is super helpful. I love that distinction. So just to re-say what you just said, the diagnostic assessment is a more detailed.

With higher levels of data points and sort of more sophisticated, super complex diagnostic. Yeah. So where there's multiple, um, multi-factor diagnosis where they're taken in, um, certain components and certain wheeling of different components across a range of different parameters. So if you've ever been through Enneagram or disc or StrengthFinder Yeah, that's a, like what we would call a, the, a true diagnos of a diagnostic score based assessments are just as powerful.

They're just different. They're not, they're not a lesser, they're just different. That's where if our people, if we help people say with four different areas, let's pretend mindset marketing leads offer in seals could potentially be. You're diagnostic, you would score people across those five areas and then they would know, gosh, like the thing I need to focus on is leads.

'cause I have this amazing offer. I got 82% of my offer score. But when you look at my lead generation, it's 17%. You then know that that person, lead gen is the offer. Whatever thing you help them with around lead gen is the the positioning piece you put in front of them. Now you're also probably inside your group coaching containers or your courses also help them with sales and offers and all of the things.

Yeah. But if you, if somebody is struggling with leads and you're trying to fix sales, they're not gonna buy your thing because that's not what they believe their problem actually is. So all we gotta do with our offers is pull out the piece. All the offer that solves the problem that they have just told us that they have.

And then all of the remainder of that is the surprise in the backend with you're, you're, you help us with all this as well, that's amazing, but we gotta, gotta gotta meet our people where they're at. Yes. Oh my God, I love this so much. Could you just walk me through like the, just the basic flow and how the process of, of a quiz mm-hmm.

Allows, mm-hmm. A potential client to sort of sort themselves. Yep. Like what are the key junctions that people should be thinking about to optimize?

I love this. Okay. So we always, always, always, a lot of people go to build their quiz and they're like, what should my quiz be? And they start with their hook, which is the top of funnel. What's that question that stops the scroll and has people go, Ooh, I don't know, I'm gonna take this quiz. Okay. Am I a unit corner a tiger?

Yeah. Yeah. That is the, that's the last piece we do. Okay. But that's where most people start. What we actually wanna do is begin with the end in mind and reverse engineer from our offers back towards the top of funnel. Okay. So what is the offer? What, what is, what is this particular client of yours selling?

Okay. Right. When we look at that, what is that, uh, offer solving for? Okay. So we don't want to, I always use this analogy and it's, it's quite extreme, but we do not want to have a quiz funnel that is a big gardening.

If our offers are about synchronized swimming, because there's a lack of funnel congruence there. And what's gonna happen is somebody's gonna go through their assessment. It's gonna say, you are a gardener, type A, and then here's my synchronized swimming offer. And yeah, why the heck would I want that?

Okay, so we, there has to be a segue. There has to be congruence between the quiz that people are taking and the offers that we are selling. And the, your offer that you're selling simply must be the most obvious next step that why on earth would they not do this? Because they just told you that that's what they need help with.

So we know what our offer is, we reverse engineer out of that, and this is where we can make a decision. So if you think of like a decision tree, whenever we think of our people and who we serve, do they struggle with three or four main things that we know?

Yep. Every single client I work with, they struggle with this, they struggle with this, they struggle with this. Or do they actually tend to be types of people? Okay? Where, when they are this type of person or this type of person or this type of person, here's what tends to go wrong for them. Okay? So we're either gonna just call a mistake quiz or a type quiz, and let's keep running with the, let's pretend we decide at this point now it's gonna be a mistake.

So now we know, um, here are the struggles of our people. We, what we wanna do is think about our framework, think about how we deliver our program. We want to ask people questions on every single. And this is going, let's pretend this is like a super short quiz. It's not a score based diagnostic. It's not more in depth.

But as a shorter quiz funnel, what's a question that we can ask our people that A shows them that we get it. So the language that we use, the questions that we're asking are insightful and show our lead that we truly understand where they are in their journey, and secondly, they are congruent and related to the offer that we're gonna make later.

Yeah. Okay. And then what you gotta do is choose your diagnostic questions in there. So, which are the questions that when we ask them and when people answer those questions in a certain way, it means that they are gonna go into bucket A, bucket B, bucket C, and bucket D. Okay, then reverse engineer, reverse back from that again and say, okay, what is the question that when I ask this question, the, the, the subsequent questions in the quiz are gonna make logical sense.

The offer, the result that they're going to get makes logical sense. And the offer that I'm gonna make is gonna make logical sense. And then that's your hook. And that has to be what I describe as a burning. I cannot scroll past this without knowing the answer question. Yeah. Okay. So this, 'cause that's what stops the scroll.

People are just mindlessly scrolling. All day. Okay. Yeah. Inundated with content. Yeah, exactly. And by the way, question, there's a lot of data that suggests that the reason why visual hooks work, like somebody point dancing or doing some kind of visually appealing thing is because we're like hardwired to lean into something that's gonna make us laugh.

Something that's gonna entertain us. Yeah. So we're, we're all sitting around like the world is on fire and there's immediate things burning on our body, and we're like, oh, look at that person point dancing. Like, it's just, yeah. Or, or, or self discovery. So it's like, oh my God. Like I actually learned something about like, why am I, like, why am I like this?

Why do I, why am I the weird person who like loves building infrastructure? You know, we love to learn about ourselves. Yeah. And that, that self discovery is the true power of a quiz. So that hook has to have to bring them in. Okay. It has to. And then what you gotta do, so this is, this is really cool from a lead, um.

The perspective of putting people into buckets. So you're type A, struggle A, struggle B, struggle D, and struggle D. Okay. So what that allows you to do as a business owner is amazing, is have personalized copy, personalized position, positioning of your offers. So you can actually write copy that is specific to person A, specific to person B, specific to person C. So the people who are going through it only c the copy that is relevant to them. And this is where you get the jaw drop.

Like, are you kidding? Like how do you know me so well when the copy is written? Well, it is so profound because it is literally based on the answers that they have just given you. And then when you position your offer, you're only positioning the component and the aspect of your offer that relates to what they just told you.

Got it. So, man, so that, that's one piece. Yep. So that's cool. But inside of bucket A, bucket B, bucket C, and bucket D, we have everybody, depending on how effective your top of funnel copy is, if you're running paid traffic, back to that richness conversation. If you're using Perme language, you know, oh, you've been let down and you're struggling and you're, you know, you're banging your head off a brick wall.

That's going to bring through people who are banging their head off a brick wall and who are struggling and who are perie types. Okay. So shift that rich niche positioning. Speak to only the upper echelons of your market. If you've got a 10 K thing, we can't use Perme language because it's gonna bring in all the perme people.

Yeah. The quality of the water going through your pipes is going to be like dirty, muddy water. It's not gonna work because they cannot invest in your 10 K thing. So all of that top of funnel, that's your best bet is making sure that that's rich niche positioning. But then even with that, people coming through, you're gonna have people who cannot afford your stuff instead of bucket A, bucket B, bucket C, right through to the people who could drop a hundred K on it tomorrow.

Okay? So then this is where the lead classification comes in and the leads have no idea that you're doing this in the back end. This is just for the business owner's use and this is where it gets so, so powerful because then what we can do is look at, we can basically tag, and this all happens completely automatically.

Yeah. When people answer this question in this question in this way, it means that they're a tier one lead. Okay. So then we're able to start and you know, I don't know how I can go on and on with this for like another 30 minutes on these AI agents now that we're building that analyze when all of the leads that are coming into the, the companies of our clients every day.

Here are all the people who are answered all of these questions in a certain way. Here are the people who bought our 10 k thing. Here are the people who bought our 50 k thing. Here are the people who bought our $47 thing. Okay? And then what we're able to do is these AI agents are analyzing the patterns of behavior, how these people are answering questions.

Then giving, um, consulting documents on here's how they improve, here's how they attract more of the 50 K people, here's how they attract more of the 10 K people tweaks to the top of funnel copy for Facebook ads. And it just becomes this flywheel where every single week we're able to optimize and improve the end to end funnel, including copy, including the questions that are in the assessment, including how we are positioning our offers, so that over time it just becomes compound interest.

It's like compounding flywheel effect of optimization, optimization of your funnel. So. I love this. It, it, it makes perfect sense to me is just kind of moving people through the process of them sorting themselves by asking the right questions. Yeah. And can we pause for a second on the copy?

Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. I'm a big fan of spending time really understanding your client. I talk to my clients a lot about this like. The more you can get to know what keeps them up at night, what their desires are, like really where they hang out online, what they're thinking, feeling going through, and what they really need right now.

And I'd love to hear your thoughts on the use of AI around developing these nurture sequences and the copy that goes on the landing pages.

I am, do not, yeah. Do not under any circumstances use AI to write to your copy. That is my hard and fast rule. We, we build AI agents. So for example, that Reddit scrape, that's, that's just an AI agent, so nobody needs to do that manually.

Right. We build an agent to scrape that for you every single week. Give you all of the language of your people. But please, I think you we're, I think we're both in the same page from your reaction on screen, um, that do not have AI write your copy. You can smell it at a thousand pieces. Your ideal clients can smell it at a thousand.

Do not have AI written copy. Yeah, I agree. But what we want to use AI for is to. Make it simpler in your production process so use it for production services, use it for scraping and understanding all of that data and all of that understanding about your people and what they're struggling with their language, and use it to help you create your copy, but don't have it.

Write your copy. Yeah. Yeah. So it's basically executive function and analytic use as opposed to creative use. I think that that's the right way to frame it. I've been writing my own email newsletter every Tuesday for 15, 20 years or something like that. Yay. Love it. I think what's happening at the moment is, and my mentor Ryan Vek, is a huge, um, kind of. He shouts about this a lot, um, is the return to real. And people, even, even a non-sophisticated buyer can smell AI copy at a thousand pieces. Yeah. So write your own words, share your own story, be you and use all, like we have identified our entire everything in our business.

AI agents where it is physically possible. AI agents are running the show, um, but they're never there to replace my voice. They're never going to write the words you see on my website. They are never going to create what I put into my substack. Never, ever, ever. Yeah. Good, good, good. I love that. Good answer.

Okay. How does this look for somebody who's doing all their own sales calls and maybe using, an application mm-hmm.

The only time I wouldn't have an application. If you, if you are brand spanking you and you ha, you genuinely don't yet know what your market is struggling with. Yeah. Those sales calls aren't actually sales calls.

They are research you, they're market research. Yeah. So I have a lot of my clients in offer development. We set up 10 to 20 phone calls with your ideal client. Ask them hundred percent what do I need? Yeah. What are you going, like, literally use those and like those, we should almost be paying to be on those early sales calls.

I always like, I've got an article written somewhere, I think it's in my LinkedIn newsletter that I was on in my earliest days when I, when I started this and I was not really good at sales. I was on my 37th sales call before I got my first conversion. Okay. So there's a whole tenacity piece in there.

There's a whole sticking added piece in there. Yeah. But those first 36 sales calls were worth their weight in gold. And I would've paid to be on them because you learn so much about A seals, but B, your ideal client. And back in those days, we didn't have, you know, and we didn't have transcriptions and we didn't have ai.

Yeah. Um, version analyst agents running in the background. We analyzed all of our sales conversations and tell us where we lost the sale. Tell us where we made the sale. You know, we have all of these agents now that do this analysis. But back then these things didn't even exist. Okay. So we just were like that that was a no, that was a no.

That 36 times over before it got conversion. God, 36 nos is a lot of nos before a Yes. Exactly. How many people would've given up at, at sales call 25 or a sales call four or a sales call 18, or a sales call 35, um, until we start getting our yeses.



So if you are getting a no, don't feel like, oh, that was a waste of my time. Use that. What, where would they know, where did we lose it? Analyze it. Even if you don't have AI agents, run it through an analysis. Use AI to say like, where did I lose the sale? Put the conversation through, make sure that it was private and all of those things, but put the conversation through and find it.

Where did we lose that sale or where did we win that sale? What was the thing that put people over the line? And then this is part of this optimization flywheel that I keep banging on about. And we do more and more of what works and less and less of what doesn't. So whenever we, we touch on something that really resonates with something, um, now we're gonna put that into our flywheel.

How can we put that into our top of funnel copy even more. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So. I have a question about pitfalls with quizzes. So I mean, maybe that's a good segue, but Yeah, go for it. I'm assuming that the type of questions that people ask is an easy place for them to make a mistake, right? Absolutely. Like how do people arrive at the right questions to ask in their diagnostic and or quiz and or filtering process?

Yeah, so, um, my goodness is there's so many pitfalls, so many pitfalls. So one is building something that's super basic that doesn't actually give you any data and insights into your market.

Okay? We wanna make sure, we're getting the right data.

We are not falling into the mistake of asking people either irrelevant questions or we're not falling into the pitfall of asking the wrong diagnostic. So, and then the next pitfall is having that lack of congruence where people get to the end and they're like, I don't really get how this doesn't, it makes any sense to me.

Okay. Um, and then the, the other, the other big problem is people sometimes don't even have a call to action on there. So it's like the whole point, like even if you don't have your offer ready to sell, drag people to a wait list. Okay, your result is X. Here's what it means. This, this is like a repeat this podcast and write this down.

Here's your result, here's what it means. Here's the impact that it's having on you. Here's what's gonna happen if you don't do something about it, call to action. Okay. That's the structure. Okay. Super, super simple. It can, it can be as busy. Wait, say that again. Okay. So here's, here's your result.

Here's what it means. Here's the impact that it's having on you. Here's what's gonna happen if you don't do something about it. Call to action. Got it. Got it, got it, got it. Okay. Super helpful. Yes. Okay. Brilliant. So anyway, it's, it is gonna be on the, it is gonna be on the podcast that people can pause and re-listen and things like that.

Yeah. Um, and then. So another pitfall that I found, and again, it comes back to this rich niche positioning, and I, I will literally die in a hill for this because where I see the people struggle the most is that they are positioning themselves to the struggle bus people who will not be able to pay them.

Um, and can we just pause there for a second? Yeah. That is when your messaging says, frustrated with X, Y, Z, sick and tired of X, y, z, still having a hard time stuck here, stuck there, you're literally holding a mirror up for them to be like, yes, your, your heart has been broken.

You're reaffirming that they are frustrated, stuck, broken, and whatever. And guess what? When they show up on the call with you, they're gonna be bringing that message. That's, that's where they're, that's the energy. Yes. Yes. And yes, but. It, it depends if you're in a PM cycle or a release cycle cycle in the market as well.

Okay? You can still do frustration, pinpoint struggle based marketing, but we got to speak to a rich niche problem. Okay? So for me, for example, like, let's talk through my business here. So me talking to the struggle bus people would be, you don't know how to generate leads. You don't know you're not making any seals in your business.

And you know, 10 KA month feels like a dream. Okay? That's gonna bring in a certain level of people who don't know how to get leads, don't know how to make seals and have no money. 'cause they're not making any, they're not making any money. They're gonna be the type of people who think they have to make money before they can invest in themselves.

They're never, like, our stuff starts at, like at the moment our stuff starts at 12 and a half K starts at, so they're never gonna buy our stuff. Whereas you have a body of work, you have bestselling books out there, you want to codify that body of work so that your message and your work lives beyond the book, so that your book transforms lives beyond the readers of your book so that your book turns into business.

Okay. Can we see how that's a complete, they're still struggling. Okay. So they've written, but somebody who has written a bestselling book, somebody who even knows what codifying your body of work, that's a completely different human being to someone who doesn't know how to get leads. Yeah. Yep. Okay. So those people, those are, and that, that, the only reason for that is that my people are on the cusp of thought leadership.

They are bloody brilliant at what they do, but they don't have the infrastructure. Okay. So they might, these are like so many of my people and I'm like. But you're so famous. But they don't have any systems. They don't have any infrastructure, they don't have any leads. They have maybe 200,000 people on their email list, but they have absolutely know nothing about them.

They have no idea who's gonna buy, no idea what they struggle with. They're email in the same email to their entire list every week, hoping to goodness that something sticks. Instead of having everything so hyper segmented because of their quiz, that they can put the right message in in front of the right people at the right time.

That's so brilliant. I love it. It's truly true. Like there's so many people out there with like 20,000 followers, 50,000 followers, a million followers, and it's like, who are those people? They're just data points. So they're, they're famous, but they've got no infrastructure. So then that's where we come in.

So again, let, lemme talk through a different example 'cause I hate kind of banging on a bit my own stuff. So let's pretend I am a, a love and relationship coach. Okay. Yep. And I help people with, um, this is actually one of this is I'll talk to one of my clients actually. She's absolutely amazing. Okay? And she is super talented.

She does a lot of quantum time, release, a lot of like, super, super fancy modalities, completely shift people's, people's lives, people's worlds. But there's a whole relationship and angle, okay? You are gonna have, she works solely with women. She's gonna have women who live in Silicon Valley who are multimillionaires, who are struggling with this.

And she's also gonna have people who were abused by their partners or their spouses who live in their car and have a she load of trauma and abuse and history and all of the things. And who cannot even afford to buy food? Nevermind buy her 10 or 20 K thing. Yeah. So her rich niche positioning, we actually did like a couple of months ago, a big deep dive of the ad copy that her ads agency were writing.

And it was all struggle bus. Like, you've been left devastated and you're so, you know, it's like you deserve love and you've been struggling so much and you've been left behind and you've been dumped and forgotten. What is that gonna bring in? Is that gonna bring in the Silicon Valley lady, or is that gonna bring in the person that lives in their car?

And the Silicon Valley Lily, what she's actually struggling with is she's already, you've already spent, you know, you've done all the retreats, you've done the breath work, you have traveled the world, searching for solutions. Okay, so can you see how, and they're still struggling with exactly the same problem, that everything in their life is flying except for love, okay?

Mm-hmm. We're saying, you know, you have the mansions, you, you know, and, and the yachts and you, you travel many times a year. Everything in your life is absolutely perfect. But how come you feel so, um, how come it is love that there's this one place that it's missing? This is super helpful. Thank you for clarifying the difference between just like speaking to people's pain points versus like the point at which they're at in their personal journey.

Yeah. Right? That's the difference is like difference. Yeah. For your business to be viable, for your business to be profitable, you need paying clients. You need people with enough money to pay. Yeah, absolutely. So like, yeah. Lead, so we're speaking to people who have a different level of problem. Exactly. And it's like that even back to the lead generation con where I said, oh, if somebody doesn't know how to get leads, they're not a fit for me.

There are gonna be people who. Do help people who don't know how to get leads. But within this is back to the type A person. Let's pretend Type A for your quiz funnel is people who don't know how to get leads, you're gonna have the people who live in their car right through to the Silicon Valley in that I don't know how to get leads.

Yeah. Right. Okay. So it's like you've, you know, you're, you've been super successful in your corporate career. You ticked every single boss. You're complete Type A. So how come whenever you log onto LinkedIn now to try to find leads for your health coaching business or your massage business, you're left scratching your head.

You're not used to this. Yeah. Because everything you've ever touched has turned to gold. So how come it's feels like such a struggle to, to find leads. Yeah. Okay. It's completely different positioning from, you know, oh my God. Like you're posted on TikTok and you don't know how to find any leads. It's so the who, it's the who that you're speaking to inside of the struggle.

That's how I would define that. Yeah. That's super helpful. Could we talk about the platforms really quickly? Uh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Cool. I have no quizzes inside my business. I've thought about it many times.

And do you know why I didn't do it? Because I know. That it has to be done right? Yeah. And I have, I've always said, oh, I can't wait till I get to the point where I can carve out a little bit of space and do the research and get it right. Yeah.

It's not the, it's not the low hanging fruit of a lead magnet. . You're gonna get so much more qualified data to sort your people into the right next step for them and speak directly to them all the way through the journey instead of just this blanket nurture sequence that isn't right for everybody.

However they take time to get them right. So that's the main reason why I haven't created one but I also don't really know what is the best software for it. Yeah, so, so I think, yeah, so, so this is, this is brilliant and I think this, this is why we do the done for you service.

'cause people that we work with are busy, they're already successful. And this is a big project. And what I would say is like anybody can pack up a quiz. Okay. Chat. GBT. How do I create a quiz? Here's the question. Right, right, right. Doesn't mean it's gonna work. It doesn't mean it's gonna be any good.

Okay. And also I would say that I'm, I'm fairly platform agnostic. It is not about, it, doesn't it? It's not about the platform. I will give you my recommendation, but it's not about the platform. It's like, what are we trying to diagnose? Why are we trying to diagnose it in that way? And can this platform give us the data and the insights and also our leads, what they actually need.

Okay. Got it. So there's a gajillion platforms out there that will do it. Okay. But if you truly want to have a sophisticated system that shows the different, the different copy, and can point people to different offers, depending on how they've answered your quiz, I strongly recommend SCORE app.

And I'll give you a link and everything for that down in the show notes. Yeah, please do. And there are, you can get started for free, all of that. But what it allows you to do is this lead qualification system as well as the lead classification system. And that's the piece that most softwares don't give you, is that you don't have this opportunity to put people into audiences, put people into buckets that here are my tier one leads who are also struggling with this.

They're gonna point to my highest ticket thing. Here are the people who are struggling with this. They're at tier four, here's my $47 course on how to build a quiz. Yeah. Okay. And you can segment them and point them, and then all of the follow up, all of the segmentation. It's super smart. The data, the analysis, the, you know, the way you can just do like a CSV download and analyze every single nuance nuances of how people are answering their questions back into that flight.

We have to optimize your top of funnel because turning this thing on, and I think this is, this is one of the things I'd love to get across before we wrap, is a quiz funnel. A diagnostic assessment is completely pointless if there's no water going through the pipes. Yeah. So we have to have traffic, there has to be water going through the pipes.

Otherwise you've just got this really fancy thing sitting on the internet that nobody's going through. So what's your traffic strategy? How are we putting people through this? We have some clients who are running $900,000 a month on ads right through to people who have 500 followers on Instagram. Okay.

Every, every nuance in between has to, you have to have a traffic strategy. 'cause just having this thing going live, people think, woohoo. Now I have a quiz funnel. It's like, that's day zero. Then we gotta run water through the pipe. Yeah. I talk about this all the time. It's like, your funnel doesn't sell for you, you still don't do anything.

Yeah. It's just on internet. We have to put the people through it. We have to like get water running through that pipes and then don't fall into the trap of What I see so many people doing in this industry is like, oh, six people went through it and nothing happened. Oh, I'm gonna go and jump onto this other bro marketing, you know, some shiny tactic over here instead.

'cause they're bored instead of actually optimizing the thing that we've built. Yeah. Can we pause it for one quick second? I just wanna say this really clearly for listeners.

When you are testing something to derive, where is there a break in my funnel? Mm-hmm. You can only test one element at a time. Right. So let's just say for a Facebook ad. If you run a Facebook ad and you, you let it run for two or three days and it starts to optimize and you're starting to get impressions, views, and clicks, and you're looking at the data and you see I'm getting, uh, you know, 12 to 1500 people have landed on the thing.

Only, you know, a really small percentage of them actually click the thing and I've had no conversions. Mm-hmm. Something's not working. It's is it your messaging? Is it the image? Is it where they let land on the sales page? Is it the top, you know, call to action at the top of the sales page? Is it the offer itself?

You cannot change all the things. You can't just scrap the ad and then create a whole new ad and then go for it again. You have to pause, take a deep breath, hold the pose. Yeah. And choose one element at a time and say, I'm gonna start by just switching out the headlines. Run it for another day or two. Did somebody click this time?

Did you actually get a sale? Okay, we're onto something. Maybe it's the image visuals really impact people. Are you using video or ad? Like don't test every element at once. You wanna test one element at a time. And I think it's the same for a quiz. Like if your quiz is up and running, and tell me if I'm wrong here, correct me if I'm wrong, but would you suggest, like you're saying, don't just scrap it, test one element at a time and see if there's, if there's new data coming through?

Yeah, so basically what we do, so this is what we do for all of our consulting clients on the back end. So, but 84% of people who, where we build their assessments, they stay with on with us and we do all of the optimization, all of the everything for them on the back end, on a consulting basis. This is where we do, so we, we gotta run water through the pipes.

We get a critical mass. Then we say like, right, what is this data telling us? What are our conversion numbers telling us? What are literally every single point, every single question in our assessment, we have data points on conversion, how many seconds it took people to answer, and all of the patterns that then run through that entire funnel right through to the point of conversion.

And then we got to one thing at a time, as we say, we don't throw the baby out with the bath water one thing at a time. We go through and we optimize this, and we optimize the next thing and then we optimize the next thing. And that optimization, what we call our, our optimization playbook, there are certain optimizations that are gonna move the needle in a big, big way.

And there are certain optimizations like changing question nine. Changing answer C to be different. Copy is going to, it's gonna move the needle, but it's not gonna move the needle in a dramatic way. Okay? So what we gotta do is understand every single data point across the whole funnel. See where we're losing the most people, and we fix the biggest leaky hole in the bucket first.

Then we run water through the papers again. Did that improve it? Okay, brilliant. It did. Now that that KPI, that metric is now what we call in the green. Now what's the next biggest leaky hole in the bucket? Where are we losing the next biggest critical mass of people? Then we close that leaky hole in the bucket.

Then we get, basically what we do is week on week we run this optimization machine to get every single KPI into the green. And then we just go from green to dark green to darker green, to darker green over time. And it just is this continual cycle. And then as both you and I know with paid traffic, everything's humming along lovely.

And then the next thing they change One bank thing. Yeah, the algorithm, you know, and off we go. A KPI drops back into the, into the amber or a KP drops into the red and this is why nothing is set up and forget it. And this lay that people have been sold this poison that people have been sold by their brew marketers, that it's just.

Whack up and have a green funnel and that's, you done. Go and lie on the beach and sit in the sunset. It doesn't work like that. It doesn't. No. I, for people have been sold this poison. Yeah. Um, just, just for people listening who don't know, a KPI is key performance indicator. Mm-hmm. And it's really, uh, important from the back end of just getting to know your numbers.

And I love the leaky pipes analogy, and I'm prob may have, I'm probably gonna borrow this from you because there's list, I can't remember who I stole it from.

High Source and somebody I

I mean, if you had a leak in your pipe, in your house, what would you do? You would, you could've gone fix it, call a plumber and you would, you don't say, oh, let me change, let, let me back to the house and start again. You don't scrap all the pipes you'd call a plumber and you fix the leak. Right. I'm gonna say Latin analogy.

I like that one.

I love it, so, okay. I have one final question for you. Somebody's listening to this and they're like, you know what? I need to get my S together and start doing my analytics and get my numbers and know my numbers. What's the very first step, somebody who's just like, I have no clue what my diagnostic information is.

I'm not tracking my data. What's step one for them? Yeah. So yeah. So there, there's everything here from the tip I'm gonna share for getting started right through to, we have AI agents who automatically give your KPI dashboard to your CEOs on a Monday morning. Okay. One step back from the AI agents doing it for you is having an automatic KPI dashboard that they're still, all of the computations are done a automatically, it's just a Google sheet dashboard.

It goes red, amber, green based on whether it's good, bad or good. Amazing. Not, not so good. It'll go red, amber, green, and with a few small inputs from somebody on your team, like a va. On a Monday, um, they can input the, the data for the prior week on a couple of key metrics and have everything else zapped through to that sheet.

So whenever you make a seal, whenever a tag is applied, whatever it is, feed that through to your dashboard and then with a couple of small manual tweaks, like add in your ad span for the prior week on a Monday morning, that Google sheet will show you exactly where you stand. Okay. So that's kind of the, the Gold Star.

Is the AI agent doing it for you? The. Lesser star is for having the Google Sheet version. And then if you literally are, are saying like, you know what, what is a KPI, for example? Okay. Um, and you don't know any of the numbers in your business. What I want you to do is to set a date with yourself, like we do the still inside of our company.

I have a CEO to our block every single Monday, and that is called CEO review. And that's where we actually sit down and we look at our numbers. And here are the things to actually look at.

Okay? Yeah. So first of all, so what is your revenue for the calendar year? What, therefore, based on the month that we are in, is the average monthly revenue that you are running at at the moment?

Okay? What is your lead volume? Okay? Um, average monthly expenses. Okay? So again, all of your expenses should be getting pushed through to your Google sheet.

Yep. Um, so that you know the exact cost of the cost to run your company. Then what is your average margin per month? Okay, next number is total ad spend. Now, this is the bit that if you're doing the Google Sheet version. Just, it has to be done manually.

Get a VA to do it. If you don't have a va, take two seconds to do it yourself. Yep. Filter your Facebook ads for the prior week, um, from Monday through Sunday. Add it into the Facebook ad spend sheet, then what that allows us to calculate is our return and ad spend.

Okay. So what is your roas? What is that number? Whenever we put a dollar into the Mark Zuckerberg slot machine, how many dollars are we getting out on the back end? Yeah. Okay. Now then, if you do have a quiz form, if you do have an assessment, what are your volume of your leads coming through that?

Okay.

 What are we, spending on the assessment funnel itself for the quiz funnel itself? Okay.

We then know our earnings per lead. Okay, so what is the revenue attributed inside of the company to the leads that came through from our assessment or our quiz funnel?

Yeah. Okay. Then let's break it down a step more into your quiz funnel. So what's your quiz funnel? Quiz funnel landing page conversion. What is your quiz completion rate? What are your question completion rates? What's your quiz to application conversion? Or if you go directly to a call or you go to a webinar, or you go to a micro product, what is that conversion percentage on the back end?

And then what percentage of people are falling into which bucket inside of your quiz? Okay. So how many, what percentage of people are type A, what percentage of people are type B, type C, and type D.

Yeah. Okay. So that's a really interesting number to see. And this is a, a hole, uh, a leaky hole in your bucket where you might have applications coming in that didn't actually book a call. Then you have, obviously just because somebody booked a call doesn't mean they show up. So then we've got our show up read.

And then we've got our conversion rate. But what most people do is people don't wanna buy my thing, let's change it all through it, all in the bin and start again. And we can see there from all of those metrics that I called out, but every single one of those metrics that I just called out is a drop off point.

Yeah. But most people go to. Oh, I gotta fix my offer. It must be my offer. Most people haven't seen your offer. Yeah. They don't even know what it's, they don't even know what you do. They don't even know how you can help them. It is never that. It is never you. It is never the offer. Yeah. I think this is such a, I mean, one of the things I love about this is like, the numbers don't lie.

Mm-hmm. And unfortunately, there's so much ego in it. And the ego is a distraction. Like it's just never, ever, ever about you. It's, I mean, it is about you in the sense that you step into leadership. And if you're great at sales, it's just leadership. Energetic connections. Relationships lead them to a solution to their problem.

With confidence, like that's sales, right? But in a very, very simple nutshell. But that that confidence and that leadership is earned through. Doing the work. Mm-hmm. And the best way to get better at doing the work is to track your data and to know your numbers. Because if you look, if you just look at the numbers, if you say, okay, a hundred people came to my webinar, but only two people decided to work with me, where did I lose the, if you really go through the slides and go back to, was it sign up rate, was it show rate, was it retention rate?

Was it the click offer rate? Because then you can do the exact same webinar again next month, next week. Do it tomorrow, next week, not next month, next week. Yeah. Yeah. Don't launch. Thank you. One of the reasons I love online business versus like when I used to run an in person, you know, juice bar for example, is if I make a huge drastic error in the way that I'm operating in the, or if I just, let's say I do something that I'm trying for the first time and I fail completely, like nobody shows up, I don't sell anything.

It's terrible. I can literally do it again the next day. The next day, no one is, no one is writing these rules for you. I mean, yes, you need the capacity to do it, but you, you have mm-hmm. This amazing opportunity to just track some numbers and follow them, follow the numbers, and then try again.

But, but again, fixing one thing at a time, like the biggest leaky hole, then the next biggest leaky hole, and then the next one. It's just, it's just, to me, it's like building that muscle. I ran a live masterclass, um, every single week inside every company for about two years. And the muscle that that built every single week, hell or high water.

And I remember once where I had like. Four people turned up and then you'd have a hundred people and then you'd have 500 people and then you'd have six people. And it's like you build that muscle. Yeah. You start to know your market. You know what lands, you know how to talk, you know how to sell the intonation and the speed and how you, how you engage with your people.

You become an expert in your craft. Yeah. When you build that muscle, . It's allows you to go from A to B so much faster than being, having one hit and one chance at, of, at a year. Especially if you're new. Yeah. It's so interesting. I love it. Maid, where can we stalk you and learn so much from you? Yeah, so, so the best place actually to stalk me is over on our new Substack. Um, oh. So I'll share the link with that. Please do below.

And then what we do is actually repurpose that to the podcast and repurpose that to YouTube. Um, so Substack is the best place. It just depends on what medium people want to learn. So I'll give you all the links for down below and then if to go through our impact score assessment and see what impact you're gonna have on the world, um, go to impact score assessment.com.

Uh, that's a really cool example of a score based diagnostic that we talked about earlier. Okay. Impact Score assessment.com. Oh yeah. And then, um, you know, I'm doing this like after the call and if you're curious about you know, just having a chat with my team and seeing if there's something we can do with you, just go to mia ferguson.com/application.

Amazing. And thank you so much for your depth of knowledge and wisdom on this topic. Quizzes are such a highly qualifying lead magnet, like great way to connect with people, but it has to be done right.

So I really appreciate your, your POV. Well thank you for, thank you for humoring me getting to talk about all this stuff. 'cause I literally could talk about it for a week, so I appreciate it. Yeah, any final thoughts you wanna share before we sign off? So final thoughts would be, um, if, if you're gonna go on DD Iyt, absolutely do, but just make sure that you are positioning it for your rich niche.

Don't put dirty water through your pipes. You gotta put water through your pipes and make sure that you're put in the right offer in front of the right person at the right time. Yeah. Yeah. And keep it simple. That's so good. That's so, so good. Thank you so much. Thank you.

Thank you. And I think what I am being reminded of by listening to Mave is really the importance of tracking your numbers. For any of my clients listening, you know, already I've got the spreadsheets for you. But if anybody is listening and is thinking, I need to get started with this, you know, DM me, reach out to me.

Always happy to set an entrepreneur on the right path because the goal is to be profitable so that we can enrich the world with our special gifts. And we can't do that if we're not making any money. So I love it. Love, love it, love it, love it. Yeah. And as always, you guys, thank you so much for being on the journey with us.

Thanks for listening to this amazing conversation. And may you be vibrant.