#97 - Open Your Big Mouth: How to Write Copy that Converts with Taylor de la Fuente

What if opening your big mouth was the key to bigger sales?

Today’s guest is Taylor de la Fuente, the founder of Big Mouth Copy, and she’s here to spill all the secrets about bold, brave, personality-packed copy that actually sells.

In this episode you'll learn:
 → Why sounding more like YOU is the ultimate marketing flex
 → How to make your website work while you sleep
→ The biggest mistakes service providers make with their words (and how to fix them)
→ Why "authenticity" isn’t just a buzzword — it's your sales superpower

If you’ve ever struggled to find the right words to sell your offer — or worried about sounding “too much” — this one’s gonna light a fire under you. 🔥

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Stalk Taylor's Website: Big Mouth Copy

Mindset to Market is a Luminous Creative Production. If you'd like to learn more about our business coaching program and group coaching container, please visit us online at DeborahcSmith.com.

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Mindset to Market is produced by Deborah C. Smith and designed to inspire and support big-hearted creatives in finding their own unique path, building a sustainable business, and creating financial, spiritual, mental wellness and abundance.

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Transcript

  okay, , welcome back to the show. I'm so excited to introduce you to my guest. Her name is Taylor de la Fuente and she is the founder of Big Mouth Copy Taylor, welcome to Mindsets Market. Thank you. Thank you for having me. Yeah, this is so exciting. So Taylor and I met, recently we met in person at a New York City conference.

Mm-hmm. And had an amazing conversation and we've just been keeping in touch since then. And so, we're gonna dive into some talk about the power of words today and what they do for your business and how they help carry so much weight in terms of sales. But before I get into all these deep questions about copy, I would love to just go back a little bit, dial back the wheel.

You got started running a business in 2013, is that right? So I graduated from journalism school in 2013. And I think that's. I don't know if it's the most unique thing, but it's definitely one of the things that makes me unique in my business is that I approach every project and the foundation of writing like a journalist.

So I'm looking for the story that's already there. I'm trying to figure out what makes you interesting, what makes you different? What, what is the story? What's the hook that captures somebody's attention? How to ask really good questions. So bring bringing that foundation to the table. And then, yeah, so I worked in journalism.

Then? Then I worked at a digital marketing agency that specialized in SEO, and so I learned. Sort of the flip side of content, the secret language of the internet content. Yeah, like content marketing, how to use the writing skills, the storytelling skills, a question asking skills that I already had.

I learned how to use it online and to help businesses get found through the power of SEO. And I led an entire team there. But , my business officially launched in 2019, but to be honest, I had probably been doing it since 2013, just with, you know, especially being a journalist.

The, the hours were terrible, the pay was worse, so I always had a side gig, a little writing thing here or there, whatever. But, but yeah, that's kind of the, the backstory. Awesome. And you have, do you have a business partner? I know you have a team, but are, is it just you and then your team? No, it is me and I do now have a team.

It, that's been an interesting story too. Interesting journey. But it was me by myself for a long time. Then I grew a ton and I had a team once upon a time, and then I had to let that team go. It was like totally heartbreaking and humbling experience as a business owner because I feel a lot of responsibility having a team working for me.

Um, but I had a baby and my business essentially died because I had a baby. That's a whole other story. And then I laid low for a long time, just did everything by myself again, had another baby, and then now post that baby, I was like, okay, I'm done having children.

They're not gonna kill my business anymore. I'm gonna build it back up. And so now I've been building it back up but I'm the only owner. And my, my sister does work for me though, and I'm actually bringing her on full time in January. Oh, that's exciting.

A big leap. Yeah. In my, in my entrepreneurial journey. Yeah. It's interesting. It's really when you have employees who rely on you developing business and to pay them. It, it's, that'll keep you up at night.

It totally does. It's a completely different animal, honestly, because when you own. You own a business and you're just by yourself. You are the master of your own universe. And that's true when you have a team as well. It's just then you're also the master of your universe and other people's universes because now you're the one that they show up every day saying, okay, what am I supposed to do today?

And you have to tell them that, okay, who are we working on today? You have to deliver. Like, here's a client that a project you need to work on. Okay, it's time to get paid. You have to pay that bill. And it's a big, a big responsibility and not one that I take lightly. I will say that I freaking love it. I love running the business side of my business.

Yeah. No, that type of growth is such big girl pants. It expands the impact you can make, and it's also a lot of responsibility.

Yeah. So it is a big responsibility. It is not for everybody. It's something that I freaking love, and it is so hard, so hard, and it pushes you in so many ways. But yeah, I appreciate you saying that. One of the reasons I love meeting new entrepreneurs and, and women just to connect with is ' working as a solopreneur can feel very lonely. Absolutely. So, audience, if you're feeling that way, you know, I, I always talk about networking, like the power of just meeting new people and building your tribe Well, and we wouldn't be here having this conversation if neither of us didn't.

Believe and embody that. But I'll also share that like networking is so freaking hard for me. I'm absolutely an introvert. We met at, a 200 person conference and while I was so excited to go , it also was incredibly hard for me to go because I traveled across the country to go to a city that I've been to before, but certainly am not familiar with, don't live there, all of that.

And I'm meeting tons of people who are absolute bad asses. And now I'm like, who am I to be in this room? And I am just gonna stand awkwardly by the snack table in the back. That's normally where you'll find me. So, but it's important to push yourself and to go, go out there because otherwise.

We wouldn't have been chatting on a rooftop looking at the Empire State Building as the sun went down, which was like the most magical freaking thing ever. Yeah. That was amazing. . Um, okay, let's talk about copy. Big mouth copy is your business. Mm-hmm. And I read on your website that somebody, when you were younger told you you had a big mouth.

Yeah. My mom has always said, your big mouth's gonna get you in trouble one day. And I. I guess she was right. If by trouble you mean having a business and working for myself full time for six, seven years and having a team of four people working under me.

Like if that's trouble, then yeah, I guess she was right. Yeah, and it's cool because your website really does immediately speak bold, unapologetic, freethinking, bold expression. And all throughout the copy on your website, you're inviting entrepreneurs to think outside the box, like discard the box.

And I think entrepreneurs in general have said nine to five isn't gonna do it for me. I have an idea that's unique, I don't see that anywhere else in the world, or I have a way to do this that's different or I love doing this so much, I wanna do it for myself and make my own hours. Like the box doesn't work for us already.

So seeing all the copy on your website, I, it really spoke to me. 'cause I'm like, of course. I've worked nine to five jobs.

I've worked for big companies and organizations. I felt like jumping off the roof, it's not a good fit for me. You know, I'm a creative. Yeah.

So I love, every word I read on your website, I was like, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. So let's talk about freaking love that you said that too, because you're so right. And it's like, we are already rule breakers. So just the, the number of people who entrepreneurs who are just almost like hiding. In trendiness or politeness or pretty ness is baffling to me because of what you just said.

Like we are inherently rule breakers. We're going against the green, and yet you're hiding behind like a professional email or a pretty pink logo or photos of everyone on your team, but no photos of you on, on your website or on your Instagram. Like it's always interesting to me how that that comes into play anyway.

Mm-hmm. But I think that copy. Is sometimes people think of it as the last piece, like it's at the end of their process. But why is good copy the real MVP when it comes to selling yourself and your business in your words?

Well, the definition of copy are words that sell, like you are, anytime you write or speak a word, it has a job to do. What is the job? Sometimes its job is not to sell like content. The content's job is education. So when you think of content, you think of like a blog post for example, that is content.

You're trying to educate people. That doesn't mean that there can't be a copy or sales aspect to the content. This podcast would be another one. Your job is to educate and inspire people. That doesn't mean that there's no sales happening, but the real focus of it is to educate somebody. Copy. However, copy's job is to sell for you.

Copy or words sell. So I. It should be one of the first things, if not the first thing that you're thinking of when you think through a sales strategy, because its job is to sell for you. And if you're using it well and you're establishing it early, then it can do a lot of the heavy lifting for you. And that's why copywriting is expensive.

When you go to higher copywriter, it's expensive. 'cause there's such a high ROI, because again, its job is to sell for you. And not just the one time, but on repeat because your website is always there, even when you're on vacation or maternity leave or you're not feeling well or you're sitting in the hospital next to your mom, that that piece of copy is always sitting there and your website isn't the only example, but it is your biggest, baddest piece of marketing and therefore piece of copy.

And it's very easy to take. Bits and pieces of that and use it in other places in your marketing and in your sales. So I always recommend people start with their website because it is such a foundational piece of your, of your marketing and therefore you're selling and your sales strategy. , as soon as you open the doors to your business, you by definition became a marketer because you, you need marketing, you need new eyeballs on your business and new, more sales, new customers in the door to have a business.

Otherwise, you just have a hobby, right? So you need new customers, more money in your business to function. Okay, great. That means you need marketing. So when you open the doors to your business, you figured out, okay, well I guess I have to learn marketing now because you didn't have money to hire somebody to do it for you.

So you probably read some blogs or listened to a free webinar or listened to some podcasts and you think, you know what marketing is, what a funnel is, what copy is, what a website should be, but most people probably don't. So let's just do a quick level set. Marketing is new eyeballs on your business.

Sales is new customers in your business, so converting somebody from just a casual onlooker to an actual customer. They buy something great. The smartest way to strategize your marketing is through a framework called a marketing funnel, which looks like a triangle upside down, where the bigger part is at the top, the smaller part's at the bottom, that represents the number of people.

So if you think of in your kitchen, you have a funnel, you might put, I don't know, spices in it to get into a smaller jar. In your business, what's going into the funnel is people. And so at the top, there's a lot of people, and as you get down to the bottom, there's less and less space. So there's fewer people because not everybody who encounters your business is going to be a good fit for your business.

And so you have all of these things filling up your funnel that people kind of like filter through as they go down the funnel to figure out who you are, what you're about, what you're selling, how you can help them, all of these things. Then they figure out, yes, I'm a good fit. I'm a good customer, I wanna buy from them or not.

So that's what a marketing funnel is. The website is the last thing in the marketing funnel because all of your other marketing, let's say at the top of your funnel where you're getting the most eyeballs for your business, let's say you're using this podcast as a way to do that. Podcasting is a great way because people love podcasting.

They go on Spotify and it recommends a new podcast. Now they found you outta nowhere. Poof, amazing. Somebody's in the top of your funnel. Now, they just learned about you from your podcast. Let's say you push them to your Instagram where you're posting regularly, sharing tips, whatever, and then from your Instagram, let's say you're pushing them to your website as an example.

All of that stuff is saying, please go to my website. And so when they get to the website, that's again, your biggest piece of marketing. That's out there consistently. It's the most volume of of words of writing. It has the photos of you, it's got descriptions of your services, all of the information that somebody needs to know to decide, do I wanna buy from this person or not?

Should I be a customer? And then there, if you're service provider, you're pushing them from your website to the contact page on your website where you're saying, please inquire to work with me. Please apply to be a member in my program, or join my group or take my course, whatever. All of that is a funnel.

So I say all that to say, if you want to be the most strategic with your marketing funnel, you should start from the bottom of your funnel and work the way up. And that's why I always recommend people start with their website first, and then go back up the funnel to, in the example I shared, then the next stop would be their Instagram.

And then the next stop would be either podcast.

Now all of it is aligned. And so you're actually capturing all of the, the leads, all the attention that's in that funnel and making it more likely that they're gonna buy from you. Yeah, okay, so on your website it says, , sound like you and sell like hell. And I love that because I feel like the closer we get to that true self, that true north that like, this is what I really think, this is how I really talk. This is how I really feel.

This is how I really dress. This is the way I really help get you from A to B. Um, the closer we get to that the easier it becomes to sell because you're, you're just being yourself. But I think there's a process to get there.

So , how does a solopreneur get to the point where they sound more like themselves? Yeah. This is. Really the heart of what me as a copywriter, but honestly, any, any good copywriter will be doing this. So you don't just have to work with me to get that experience.

It is, I always say like copywriting is an experience in self-confidence, like an exercise in self-confidence because I, I don't know you, how am I supposed to embody you? And right as if I'm you, if I don't know anything about you. And so you have to be able to tell me another person who you are. Now, I'm not saying I bring no skills to the table.

I bring a lot of skills to the table. I'm really good at seeing people beyond just what they say, here's who I am or Here's what makes me different. But the more self-aware a client is a solopreneur is, the better the outcome is in the copywriting always, because they're able to bring to the table.

Here's my unique perspective on this, or what I think about this or whatever. That being said, I, there are some questions that I ask that help kind of tease that out from people, and one of them, my favorite ones probably is what's something that's common in your industry or your field that pisses you off like everybody else says.

This thing and you're just like, eh, I, I kind of think that's overrated or that's wrong. Or actually my experience proves the opposite or whatever. But asking questions like that that help people just sort of get riled up. Not only am I getting the answer to the question of what's something that pisses them off, but I'm also seeing how it lights them up when they talk about it and seeing their reaction and how animated they are.

That's why every client I kick off with, there's a written component, but then there's a call component, so that way I can ask them more and we can talk about it, and I can actually see, hear the inflection in their voice, see their facial expressions, see them talk about something, because that always brings out

it's a hot button issue, and it, it brings out that, that spicy reaction. Yeah, and I think you know, without going too deeply down the path of, in the world of ai. But I think we are now in an era where the human qualities that you possess are like a higher value commodity.

We are just in an era where, you being you is , it's gonna get my attention so much more because there's so much out there that's just literally clearly just been spat out by a robot. And it blows my mind, honestly, to see it, but your voice gets swallowed when you don't write your own words. Mm-hmm. Or when you don't infuse your personality, your identity, and your uniqueness into the process of working with a copywriter. So I love hearing that. That's kind of like the first part of your process as to actually get to know the person you're helping, supporting.

Yeah. Yeah. Well, and here's the ironic thing about using AI is I, the number one thing that I hear from people, yes, it's easy, but the number one thing I hear from people say is it saves them money. Because again, as I started this conversation with hiring copywriter's, expensive. I'm not gonna lie, of course it is because my job is to make you more money.

So I'm gonna charge you less than what you're going to make, but something proportionate to the value of what I'm, the work that I'm doing for you. That being said. It's just ironic to me that people are like, well, if I use AI then it's gonna save me money. 'cause I don't have to hire a copywriter. I'm like, Hmm, it's going to lose you money is what it's going to do.

It's gonna lose you money because you're working so hard to get people in that top of the funnel. People with their eyes on your business. You worked so hard to get those eyes and now that you got them, you're wasting them on fluff, on nothingness, on just regurgitation little bits and pieces that are out there elsewhere in the internet.

Because you know that's where AI comes from, right? It reads the entire internet. Yeah. And then it steals little bits and pieces of what other people wrote and uses it for you and it calls it original, but it is not because it is not a person. It couldn't think of that by itself. It went and. Stole little bits and pieces of writing from other places to create that.

So I don't use any AI in, in my business or in my process at all. Like it's against our code of conduct for the the team. So like, I don't use it, the team doesn't use it. It's just not something that we do. I think it's, as you said, really valuable for getting ideas, for getting organized, for research. Like, yeah, there's no reason you need to research, 10 valid sources for blah, blah, blah.

Blog on this topic. Like, yeah, have AI do that for you. That's really smart use of time. But in terms of creating an original thought, like how could you claim to be a thought leader, which every business owner is, if you are a service-based business owner, you are a thought leader and an expert in your industry, how can you claim to be a thought leader or an expert in your industry if you're not doing any thinking?

Yeah, a hundred percent. It's so interesting.



Let's pretend it's pre ai. Where do people tend to go wrong with their sales copy? Like, especially I'm talking about coaches and service providers, which is mainly the listening audience here. Um, I know I've made lots of mistakes in the way that I was using words to Sell. But I'd love to hear from your point of view where you see people making common mistakes.

Hmm. Okay. There's so many. Um, and they range from little tactical things like the about page on your website needs to have your full name on it, like it needs to say Deborah Smith. You would be shocked the number of people who do not have their literal name on their own website. It's so interesting. I dunno if I do, I I literally right now wanna go check?

No, I'll wait till Well, your URL is your name, so that helps. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. That is true. So that, that's helpful. But the reason why that's valuable is because one, people wanna work with people. You're not a corporation, you're a human. People wanna hire you for that one-to-one connection. So it's a good thing that you're an individual person.

They wanna know who you are, they wanna know your name. But even more tactical than that is just, if I went to that rooftop party and I met you and you told me the name of your podcast and your name, I might not remember the name of your podcast, but I'm probably going to remember your name. And so if I go home and I go, oh, I really liked meeting that Deborah lady.

I get, I know she has a podcast, I can't remember what it's called, but I remember her name was Deborah Smith. And so I'm gonna go Google Deborah Smith podcast. If your podcast description, if your website says, I'm Deborah Smith and I have podcasts and I have this coaching business and I'm a total badass, whatever, I'm more likely to find it 'cause it's an SEO keyword.

Yeah. So some of the mistakes I see are little tactical things like you need to have your own name on your website. You need to actually talk about the service that you offer using that word. So if you are a coach, you need to say, I offer coaching services, or Learn more about my coaching here. Don't just dance around the topic, actually talk about it.

Yeah. And then there's more broad, things like, , probably the number one mistake that I see on people's websites is they make it about themselves. Because most people write their own website the first go around, or even the first few go arounds, and that's totally fine. There's nothing wrong with that at all.

But you have to remember that your website is not about you. It's about your client. Your client has a problem. That's a. Pretty big freaking deal in their life because they're out there searching for a solution to that problem, and they're willing to spend money solving that problem. That's how big of a deal that problem is for them.

And your service is a potential solution to that problem. And so you need to treat your website as if you're there to serve that person. Yeah, which I know that you care about serving your clients. We need to do that from the very first touch point, whether that's Instagram or a blog or a website. It's let me give you this information to help you solve this problem. And by the way, if that is your problem. I have a solution, I think I would be able to help you.

Can I help you? Please? Let me help you. Like you have to actually say that to people in a way that they're gonna receive it. So if you make it all about you, I am Taylor and I'm the copywriter and I like to write words and I like to make money , then it's not about them anymore.

It's about me. And so why would somebody hire me? Yeah. For that? No, nobody would. And so it's just, that's probably the number one mistake that I see on people's sites is making it so that's interest. That speaks a little bit to some stuff in the coaching industry that's a little bit like following a cult leader as opposed to like getting the work that you need done. And people stay perpetually in these people's coaching programs because they're constantly just chasing this ideal of being more like the coach as opposed to getting a service and getting clear on what they need and getting the work done and moving on and building their business.

, One of my goals is to actually turn the mirror back on my clients and say, this is all about you and as an entrepreneur, at some point you're gonna have to ask yourself some difficult questions. Let's get them outta the way. Here's what they're gonna be. Mm-hmm. Take the song when you're ready, but, as opposed to like, I've got a secret, and when you're ready I'll reveal another little piece of the secret.

It's like, no, there's no secret. It's all on the internet. I'm gonna guide you through a process to help you get your own, be your own secret. Like you are the secret, the secret is that you, , can do anything. Oh my gosh. That needs to go on a t-shirt or something. You are the secret.

This is why I like talking to you. 'cause I'm always like, yes, absolutely. Yeah. How come people don't realize that? I dunno. Well, I think it's because the industry is set up to chase the shiny object as opposed to actually making progress and get results. I mean,

I debate all the time whether to call myself a coach or a service provider because my relationship with my clients is very hands in the clay. Like I, I help them build the actual thing. Mm-hmm. Um. But see if this was a kickoff call. I'm gonna pause you right there.

If this was a kickoff call, that little sentence that you just said is magic, you should start your about page with, I don't honestly know if I should call myself a coach because I'm not sure that I am in love with the coaching industry and the reputation it's created for itself like that right there was just magical. So, okay. Noted. I'm constantly updating. Take, take that idea. Go use it. I really believe every single word should carry water. Like the bucket can't have any leaks. If it's on the website, if it's on the Instagram page, if it's on the caption. Mm-hmm. If it's on the flyer, it bring, it adds value. Where can you cut and trim everything and create more space mm-hmm.

For the visual display of words, by not saying things that are redundant or unnecessary or that just don't mm-hmm. Further give value to the end result of reading your sentence. Right. Yeah. And that's also why the design is so important and why, like I have a designer on my team and I love collaborating with other designers too, because, and, and most clients I find start with the design, which is unfortunate.

'cause they, they prioritize what it looks like. And then only later do they realize like, oh, okay, well now it looks great, but it's still not selling for me. Like, I'm still not making any money off of this thing.

I think people go for image and visual display, and they're like, my brand colors, my brand photo shoot. My, they're worried about what they're wearing and their hair. And meanwhile does their offer get as a result? Yeah. Have you served a client? Does this offer sell?

Absolutely. What are your thoughts on Well, and that's why Visual versus words. Yeah. Well, I think that's why like half the offers out there fail as soon as somebody launches it because they just thought of, once again, they're putting themselves first.

Here's what I want to do. Here's what sounds fun to me. Not what if you center the client? Not what problem am I solving for this person? How am I helping them? How am I making this issue go away? Which I'm not saying you can't have both. You can have both. You should have both. That's a Marcus of a successful business is solving, creating a solution to somebody else's problem, and that providing that solution is fun for you.

Like that's the dream. That's what every business owner wants in every single service that they offer. But. You have to actually be solving somebody's problem. So yes, back to like copy versus like visuals versus words. The visual's job, just like the copy's job is to sell for you. The design's job is to get somebody to read the copy.

That's its job. So the copy needs to be so good that once somebody starts reading it, they keep reading it. The design needs to be so good that it gets people to read the copy. And then again, as we said, once they read the copy, they're like, holy shit, this is exactly what I would, what I've been looking for.

I can't believe it. I finally found it. The design gets them to actually pay attention to read to, to move forward. We all know what a newspaper looks like. Newspapers have minimal design. I think it's pretty fair to say that magazines are more popular than newspapers because magazines are essentially the same thing, but they're presenting it in more visually appealing or visually attractive way.

And so comparing, you know, it's a similar analogy, like, yeah, you could write all of it down and just have it flat on a page, like a blog post or something. But if you want to sell to people, then you need. You need people to read. And so therefore you need them to wanna look at the visuals. And as humans, but especially as creatives, we really freaking care about the visual.

So it totally makes sense that people want the brand to look a certain way, even have a vision well before they have the offer mapped out, as you said, or clients in the door testimonials for the service before they've even done any of that. They've thought of, here's what I'm gonna call it and here's what it's gonna look like and I need a logo and I need a website and I need a branded photo shoot and whatever.

And I totally get that. Um, but you're not having the same level of impact as you could if you were a little bit strategic. If you slowed your role just a little bit and you did the strategy work first, which is therefore the writing, and then you made the strategy work look pretty.

Yeah. I love that. Really it is like, you know, if you were baking a cake, you would make sure the ingredients checked out and you could bake it three to five times in a row and get the same flavor, texture, and result before you put the icing and the decorations on it, right?

You wouldn't wanna start decorating a cake that tasted like crap. So bake your cake. Then once you know for sure, okay, I've used this same recipe five times and it's. Really, it's consistent. I got this, I know what it is that I'm, I've got in here. Great. Now let's decorate that with the elements that are gonna attract your ideal client. Then go out to the marketplace and, and put it out there. Yep, absolutely. And you're smart. Like when you're, when you're describing how a client will approach you and say, will you help me with this thing? And you'd be like, Hmm, no, actually we gotta do this first.

I know that that sucks for the, the listener. The client sucks. It totally sucks. It's like your mom saying, eh, you gotta eat your broccoli first before you can have cake. Like, and there's a reason why you need to eat your broccoli.

It's really freaking important. If you actually tasted it, you'd realize that it's freaking delicious. And that's like the, the worst part. But also the best part is people are like, eh, I don't wanna do the strategy part. And then when they do it, they're like, actually, that wasn't too bad.

Actually. Kind of liked it actually. That made like the rest of my meal. The rest of my plate taste really good because I had it with the broccoli. I love that. So obviously website copy, you've just said really clearly, that's kind of like the most important thing.

We start with making sure that everything on your website is copacetic, it's aligned, it's your personality, it's your brand. But then there's the entire customer journey through a funnel, which requires different words for different people at different stages. Um, that's a little bit more advanced, I think when people are building out the layers and the levels of their funnel, you know, you're saying one thing to a total stranger who's a cold stranger on the internet.

By the time somebody's coming to your world, maybe jumped on your mailing list, maybe come to a webinar or met you at an event or something like that. Now you're, you're at a different level and the words change. I would love to hear your POV on the strategy of just designing words that take somebody on that journey all the way to the sale.

Totally. I also think some of it is this, um, you cannot speak French and Spanish at the same time. Like if you're standing in a room with a hundred people in it and they're, they speak all variety of languages.

Only the people who speak the language that you're speaking are gonna understand what you're saying and that's fine. That's a good thing. So you might know a couple of words of French and a couple of words of German, but your main language is English and so on that, in those top of funnel areas, it's good to say those couple words in French or those couple words in German, and mostly speak in English, and you're gonna attract the right people that way.

And then as you move down the funnel, you start saying maybe a little bit less French, a little bit less German, a little bit more English, and you kind of like those people who. Found you because you said this one thing that appealed to them or related with them. Now you caught their attention and now they're in the funnel, they're in your atmosphere, and then you continue to speak their language.

You continue to capture their attention, but over time, again, you're gonna lose people. And that is not a bad thing. They're figuring out you are a right fit, you're not a right fit. So at the top of the funnel, you're gonna be talking to a broader group of people

and you're gonna say all those things to the most people at the top of the funnel to get the most eyeballs. And then once you have the eyeballs, then you kind of narrow down and go, well, this is, if this is you, you're definitely in the right place, but here's who most of my, of my people are, or, here's what most people are struggling with.

And then again, they, they know you more and more. They've been watching your Instagram stories, listening to your podcast, tuning into your YouTube channel, getting your emails, whatever, all that stuff. Yeah. And I think it's, it's difficult for people at the beginning of their entrepreneurial journey to make these types of decisions.

Like, what do I wanna call myself? Am I a coach? Mm-hmm. Am I a service provider? Do I wanna work with only women or men? Because you're choosing different words. Yeah. Based on those decisions, you know? Yeah. I think like getting clear. Yeah. The words you choose are, are a result of the clarity of how you wanna show up Yeah.

And who you wanna work with and what their struggle is. Like walking them down that funnel. Yeah. Is really knowing, okay, at this phase they've made all these decisions. Yeah. Now I need to speak to 'em about this next level and like propel them towards, towards the next step. Totally. And I love it when clients of mine have a coach like you in their corner, because I know that there is someone else asking these bigger questions and pushing back.

Like something I see so often in the online space is I serve female founders. I'm like, but why do you actually serve female founders? You might. Your true, ideal audience may be female founders, but can we just gut check that for a second? Have you ever figured out why that is?

Is it because you're selling period products, so you're only marketing to people who have a menstrual cycle and therefore you're talking to, to women? Or is it that you're just looking for a client who is creative and empathetic and soft spoken and not entitled, and therefore you like any, any person of any gender could be those things, and that's actually what you care about.

So your words should shift from this label to a different label. And a copywriter can help you do that for sure. But also a coach can help you do that. As you said, doing that bigger work of what am I actually trying to do here?

Okay. . I love, , the way that you tell the story of how you do your service through your stories on Instagram.

And it's really casual, but it's also very professional. Mm-hmm. , How much of that is a result of being clear on your copy that's your written word? Hmm. Yeah.

I mean, I think the reason why sales feels like it comes easier to other people, whether it actually does or not, that's your perception. When you, let's say watch somebody on Instagram stories, it feels like, oh, they're so good at selling, they're so easy. Like, may, maybe you're watching me on my stories, do that.

I think the only difference between you and them is confidence. It's just someone saying, yeah, I'm gonna show up and talk about this thing. And so while. It's not necessarily clarity. I think confidence comes from clarity. The more clear you are on who you're serving or what you're offering or why that offer actually is helpful for someone or what problem it solves for someone who that person is who you're helping, the more clear you are on all those things, the more confident you can be.

And therefore you show up and it feels and looks effortless. And it's because, so like when I show up on my story's talking about, here's how I do my service and let me give you this tip and whatever, it's, it looks easy for me because it is. 'cause I've done it a hundred bajillion times and I talk about it to clients.

I talk about at networking events. I go on a podcast like this and I talk about, it's easy peasy. I can do it off the cuff 'cause I've done it a hundred times. I feel confident. I feel confident because I have that clarity. I've thought through who's it for, why is it beneficial? Whatever I believe in it and I've practiced.

That's the only difference between me and anybody else. And you know, if right now my listening audience all goes and clicks on your website link, they're gonna see clarity. Yeah. They're gonna see, mm-hmm. Confidence and clarity in the service that you provide because the words are there, because the images are there, because it all makes sense.

Confidence is like the number one thing that I hear from my clients after the services over and I ask them, tell me about your experience and what did you get out of this and why was it valuable for you? Of course, people want to raise their prices to have a brand that finally sounds like them or looks like them, or both.

But really the number one thing is the confidence is what I hear back is now when I hand out my business card, I'm not embarrassed because people are gonna go to my website and I know that it's a kick-ass website and it represents me well and it says what I wanna say and I'm not fumbling over my words or forgetting the most important part or whatever.

That's the beauty of having a good, a good website. Whether you write it yourself or you pay somebody to write it for you, just having that clarity gives you the confidence to walk into a room and go, here's my business card. Check me out. I can help you. Let me help you because I know that you're an expert.

I know that you know how to do the service that you're selling. How to solve this person's problem, and what's getting in the way is this insecurity of, well, I don't, I didn't put makeup on today, so I can't really like show up and sell, like I don't care about that. I show up and talk about my surface anyway because that has nothing to do with am I smart or not.

I'm very smart whether I wear makeup or not. Yeah, and that's also like, you know, when you see these random opportunities popping up, like to pitch, to be on a podcast, to apply, to speak at a conference, or even just like if somebody's out there saying they need the help, like on Threads is a great example.

Constantly people are like, I'm thinking about getting a coach, like. You know, of course suddenly there's like 50,000 responses. But if you catch that person maybe in the first or second moment and you're confident because your website clearly represents you, and you've got that sorted out, you can immediately reach out to that person and say, Hey, I'm, I might be a good match for you.

Let's meet because you're confident knowing that if they click on that link and check your website, it's gonna represent you and do a lot of that heavy lifting for you. Yeah. It just opens up a lot of opportunities and you can literally copy and paste the words from your website and put it in their, that reply to somebody.

Like I do that all the time. That's why I tell people, start at the bottom of the funnel and work your way up. Because when you've got that sitting there, that huge resource of details about your service or about you or your background or that overall sort of elevator pitch, like one to two sentence thing of here's who I am and what I do.

When you already did the hard work of sitting out and deciding here's what, here's what that is, here's how I say that. Then you can use it. Use it again. Like I tell my clients all the time, you paid for this, you bought it, so go out there and use it, copy and paste this and put it somewhere else. You could turn your entire website into 300 individual Instagram posts, like one sentence each.

Nobody would ever know. And if they did figure out, oh, that came from their website, all they would think is, wow, that was really smart. Like that's the same thing. I heard it here. How professional I heard it there. Yeah. How professional, how. How serious, how legitimate they are that they said that here and they said it here.

They must really believe that. They must really feel that way, which you do. Yeah, that's really good. That's, that's such a smart piece of advice. So I wanna ask you about finding the courage to bring more of our personality into our copy without feeling unprofessional. I feel like there's a fine line here and you know, I go to your website and it's bold, it's irreverent, it's unapologetically fun.

You, you look like you're having fun and it feels very freeing, right? It's like oh look, they can do it their way. What can I do it my way? You know, it's almost giving permission for us to think outside the box, like I said earlier. So

where do we find the courage to be ourselves, unapologetically and, and fuse the brand with that, I. Absolutely love that you asked this because this is really at the heart of my brand, which you just articulated back to me, so thank you for that. 'cause it tells me that it's working, but like that is just so inherent to me and my own personality and what I truly believe, and therefore how I do my work and how I bring that to my clients is I don't want you to pretend to be anybody else.

I want you to be yourself. I want you to be a big mouth. I want you to open your mouth and say, here's what I think about this thing. Here's, you know, I've got this big, big strong opinion and I don't know where the confidence comes from. The cur, I mean, confidence, courage, tomato, tomatoes in my mind, like same thing.

It to be courageous, you have to have a level of, of confidence and just going like, yeah, I'm just gonna do it anyway. I don't really have any source of like, where does that come from? Other than, I don't know, surrounding yourself with people who will push you to do that. So surrounding yourself with a coach who says, what do you mean you don't wanna like show up and sell this thing?

You're freaking amazing at that thing. Everybody like, how selfish of you to not show up and sell because there's somebody out there who needs that thing. Why would you deprive them of that and how awesome you are? Or hiring a copywriter who can be that mirror and reflect back to you. Like, here's what I hear you saying.

Sometimes I even have to do the opposite. Sometimes I have to confront a client and say, you're saying this thing, but you don't speak that way or you don't show up that way. Like you'd be shocked a number of times that I ask a client, how do you want this to feel on a scale of one to one to five? Like do you want it to be friendly or do you want it to be serious?

Do you want it to be casual? Do you want be formal? Do you want it, whatever? And the number of people who will tell me the opposite of how they are personally and how they show up, I always have to have this brief, confrontational moment of like, do you realize that you are not that way? And that there's actually huge business case for you to be more authentic to how you are personally, but also there's just this like ease to not putting on this front.

Like, I want your business to be successful. Your business is successful because of you, so let's highlight you and make you more of the the forefront, or make it reflect you and your per personality more. And that doesn't mean that it has to be you a hundred percent. It can be dialed up or dialed down here or there.

But if you're already embodying yourself and your own personality, your authenticity, then showing up. To sell casually owned stories feels easy because you don't have to put on like, okay, today I am wearing a blazer and I gotta, I gotta pretend that I am Taylor with the, the string of pearls and the business suit because I'm gonna be business owner Taylor.

And then in five minutes I'll take the blazer off and I'll take the pearls off. And now I'll be like, casual mom. Taylor like, no, I'm just casual mom Taylor all the time. And like, that's just how I am. So I think where do you get the courage to be yourself? I don't know. Like maturity. Maybe a little bit of being fed up of No, but I think of doing it the other way.

You make a really good case for why people should invest in mentors, service providers who can help them make quick work of the process of finding out the answers. Like this, like in, in a vacuum on your own, you're left with all your own thoughts, which could include self-worth issues. You know, feeling competitive when you're not really competing with anybody but yourself.

And you, if you're isolated and you're alone with all of that, you know, you're only your POV on your business and you don't have the, supporting eyes of a mentor, a copywriter, a service provider who can help you, envision a website that represents that full you, you could get stuck for a long time.

So hopefully you're listening to this and thinking, you know what? I'm gonna be bold in my choices around my, my, my visual and, and my copy. Um, you guys have to go check out Taylor's website and. See what I'm talking about so that you can have a reference point for a way to really show up authentically, um, and also appear very professional, which is why I asked that question.

Okay. I have a quick little, game. I'm gonna give you five pieces of copy that are very common pieces of copy that we find all over our websites and other places, calls to action, things like that. And just off the top of your head, I wanna ask you to help me make it more interesting. How, how can we make it better?

Okay. And zero pressure, I love it. Let's do it. I love this. Okay. Let's, let's do it. So at the end of a paragraph, I say, sign up for my newsletter. What's a way to make this more irresistible instead of totally ignorable . Okay.

 Get My best tips would be option one, option two. My emails don't suck, I promise. Option three, I'm super chatty. Subscribe here. Like there's, there's so many. There's so many different ways, but I think No, no, I love it. Those, that's exactly what I'm going for here, is just like flip the script on these boring sentences.

Okay. That's the other thing too. This is a writing tip for anybody listening is anytime you write something down, like anytime you need to write something like this, write like five of them rapid fire and one of them in there will be, will be the winner, be the favorite, be something different. Because I just did three off the top of my head.

I'm like, eh, number two. It was number two. Okay. So how about when people say things like, I help women step into their power, which sounds empowering, but it's super vague. What does that even mean exactly? So how do we give clarity and teeth to something like I help women step into their power? Um, once again, I would decenter yourself.

It's not about you helping somebody step into their power, it's about highlighting that they are already powerful. So I would flip the script and say like, you're already a powerful woman. Let me help you embody that faster or sooner or, or more or whatever, whatever the transformation is. But like, again, decentering you and flipping it to like, you are already this thing that helps somebody know I'm in the right place and her focus is on me.

That's the kind of coach I wanna hire. Oh that's so good. Okay. What about, check out my latest blog post, which is so generic and boring. Boring. Let's say the blog post is about five tips to make your copy better.

Mm-hmm. You would start with the value. So if it's five tips to make your copy better, it would be anything from like, you're not gonna believe these. Five tips to make your copy better. Especially number two, something like that. If you had space for something longer, so like if this was an Instagram post, yeah, you could like lead up to it and then you'd be like, after working with blah, blah, blah client, you know, after serving 200 clients, I have read blog posts out the wazoo and like, here's the five things that I see wrong with copy over and over again.

You're not gonna believe number three. Something like that would make somebody go, oh, okay. Not only do I want the five tips, I also wanna know what number three is. Yeah, no, totally. I immediately feel that the shift there. That's so good. Okay. What about work with me if you want grow your business,

. How do we make it more specific? Yeah. So. That would have to do with your audience.

So who is your audience member and like your most ideal person and what are their goals? Most commonly, of course, everybody is different, but there's probably some things they wanna do, like maybe, maybe they wanna quit their full-time job and go into their business full-time. So if that was your, your client, like they, they're a solopreneur and they're still side hustling.

Like, I'll help you make your side hustle, your full hustle. That that kind of a thing is so much more specific than grow your business. And yet it falls under the umbrella of growing your business. Like to me, okay, for me growing my business is being able to hire another person on my team. Like give my team a full count, like take my part-timer to full-time, something like that, right?

So every business owner is different, but that helps me know I'm in the right place 'cause I want that too. Or I'm not in the right place. Like one of my friends is a coach and her specialty is. Women who are looking to quit their full-time job Yeah. And go into their business full-time. And so she can work with anybody for any stage of business or life that they're in.

But like her real thing, when she says that language, I know like, hmm, that's what I want. So this is so good. You guys, listeners, that is something I, talk about all the time, which is really, really deeply knowing your ideal client. And whether you wanna call it niching down or not, it's, I it's becoming magnetic for that client by really knowing where they're at in their journey.

You're not for everybody. You're for somebody at a specific point in their journey. And so that answer Taylor just gave is perfect also for offer creation and for really everything that you're gonna do in your business is like knowing where they're at and then speak those super, super specific words that only they would recognize because only they are thinking about that.

Okay, one more. So I see this everywhere and it freaking drives me nuts. Uh, when, when people say, are you ready to finally invest in yourself? Now

you're going to invest in yourself. It's either gonna be years and years of your own time struggling, or it's gonna be dollar bills that you pay somebody to help you get over that hump faster.



For some reason I find that so vague and cringey. I would love to hear your flip. Well, it also feels patronizing, right? Because it's like, are you gonna finally do this thing? Like you've been putting it off and like, no, it's kind of a big freaking deal to like, give you six K to do this thing. And so I'm, I'm ready to do it.

My question isn't, am I ready? It's, are you the right person to give this money to? So it also just feels like patronizing a little bit rude in a way. So anyway, um, really good point. Yeah. Basically we just all hate that phrase, so don't use it if you're, if you're out there using it, like get rid of it. Um, something instead would be

spend the money to save the time or get there sooner with my help. Yeah. Awesome. It depends on the context, I guess, and like how long, like is this gonna be button copy or is it going in a paragraph or a post somewhere or whatever.

But I agree with what you said. Typically that's where I start. Anytime I'm stuck is I like word vomit, how I actually feel about it. And then somewhere in either what I said or just getting my thoughts out, I realize like, oh, that's actually what I wanted to say is, yeah, you're gonna invest in you. So that's, that's not the question.

Like you're worthy of the investment and I am too. Like that would be a good call to action. You're worthy of this investment and I am too. Let me prove it to you. I love that. I really, I feel strongly about aspirational copy versus like FOMO copy or speaking to people's struggles. I think it's just, please, let's all move forward.

Everyone is struggling. The whole world. If you're human, you're struggling. Yeah. So we know that. So let's talk about the solution. Um, okay, so final question. And I'm so grateful for your time today. . If someone's listening to this episode and there's a lot of ideas swimming in their head about their sales pages and their, , their website pages and how they're gonna write their email sequences, what's the very first thing that they should do before they write a single word?

What do you do first before you write a single word, is you, you have to sit with yourself and know the answers to all the questions source before somebody asks them to you.

You have to know, to your point, Debra, like you've gotta know, what am I offering and does it work? Do people want it? How? How is it delivered? How long does it take? Like you need to know the answers to all those things. And some of 'em are easy, quote unquote, easy, they're logistical, but a lot of them are these big foundational, like, what?

What do I actually care about? Like really, truly care about? And what kind of work lights me up and what kind of people do I wanna be spending my life working with and helping them? Grow or be, become a better person or their business, be more successful. Like I don't, my whole job as a copywriter is to make my clients' businesses more successful.

And that is a really cool thing. But also like, I don't want an asshole's business to be more successful. We got enough assholes with successful businesses out there. I, they don't deserve any more money. I wanna work with the people who are like really freaking cool, super talented artists who are value driven, who have a different perspective, are brave enough to go against the grain.

Those are the kinds of people who I wanna empower through my work, but. That is a foundational message in my own marketing for my own business. How am I going to go attract those people if I can't first say, Hey, you, you who checks all these boxes I have a had, have an answer for you. I wanna serve you. I have to know that answer first before somebody even asks me, like, who do you work with?

Or who do you serve? Or, how can I hire you? You have to know that. So before you write a single word, before you hire anybody, before you spend any money, you need to spend some time really like digging deep and figuring out the answers to those questions. And that is why I typically don't work with people.

I shouldn't say typically, it's a boundary. I don't work with people who have not See, this is a coaching moment right here to me, to myself of like, Nope, draw on the line. I don't work with people who haven't been in business for less than two years, because it takes time to know the answers to those questions.

I cannot sell for you and write good copy for you without the answers to those questions. Yeah, it's so true. I mean, literally, if you're listening to this and thinking, I don't know the answers to those questions, hit me up and ask me about the foundations group coaching program, because that is what we do inside foundations, is we, we, we move through a series of foundational decision making that's gonna help you save years of your life running your business, um, really getting clear on your offer and, and the basic technical pieces that are gonna support it.

So, okay. I'd love to hear number one, what you're working on, um, where we can find you, where you'd love for us to connect with you.

And, and then also if you have anything coming up that you wanna talk about or share about. Yeah. Um. This is always like the awkward part at the end where you're like, tell me about yourself. Like, oh, who, me, what? Well, you have an upcoming retreat next year. That's true. I do. Okay, so,

 I hang out on Instagram the most frequently. So if you're looking to just follow along with me, the best place to do that is Instagram. My handle is big mouth copy. Easy peasy. Um, and yeah, , if you liked this and learning from me and. Want to learn more. I have a brand new webinar, a free training, all about marketing funnels.

So rewind this conversation back to when we were talking about funnels. It's like that, but I go even deeper, but also it's only 30 minutes. So I'm not, there's no fluff. It's all like, here's what a funnel is. Here's all the things that go into it. Here's the gaps after 220 plus clients. Like here's the three most common gaps that I see in where you're tripping yourself up in your own marketing.

Like that is what that training is all about. So big mouth copy.com/webinar is where you can download that for free. And also you'll see my own marketing in action if you do that. It's a little meta of an example, but that's true. Um, so there's that. And then, yeah, like the only other kind of newish thing that I have coming up is I am hosting retreat in February, 2026 for entrepreneurs who are looking to have more conversations like this, honestly, but without.

Without being recorded. Definitely without the Blazer fire side of the cocktail. Yeah, exactly. Sitting, sitting on a couch in sweatpants. Having conversations like this about your own business, answering these questions of like, who, who do I wanna serve? Or like, you know what, up until this point I have been saying I only wanna work with women, but do I actually only wanna work with women?

I don't know. How do I figure that out? Like kind of just, it's so helpful to have these conversations causing with other entrepreneurs. Yeah. In just a casual setting. Yeah. We were talking about this I think before we hit record, but just the idea of having, having a team is a big responsibility and. It's helpful to have a team because then you're not alone all the time.

When you're a solopreneur, you do everything by yourself. But honestly, even when you do have a team, you're still alone because those people are not actually your peer. They are your peer in that they're, they're working with you and they're on your team and they understand the business and they're supporting you, but they are not at the CEO level that you are.

They don't have the full weight of running the business and making those decisions on their plate. And a retreat like this one is only for people in that role. So you actually will be in a room of peers saying, Hey, does anybody else like feel this big heavy weight of getting more work? 'cause I wanna support my team member.

Like, you can't talk to your team members about that. They don't have that. Responsibility, the weight of that decision. So anyway, I, I just, I went to a retreat like that last year and I thought it was freaking amazing and I was like, I gotta do one of these. So now I'm doing one, um, in, in February, so you can go to my website and learn more about that and if you wanna come.

So exciting. And this is in South Carolina too, yeah, that's, it's in Charleston, South Carolina. Oh, it's in Charleston. Okay. February, 2026. There's only nine beds, so there can only be like 12 people going. It's for women and non-binary people.

Sorry, my dudes. Next. We'll do dudes another time. Um, this time it is just for women and non-binary folks and, yeah, it includes accommodations, it includes meals, it includes all the programming.

There's the theme is rest. So there's gonna be time for naps. There's gonna be no dishes to do. No. What are we having for dinner? No. What should we talk about now? None of that. I love that so much . This is so exciting. I'm really excited for you and thank you so much, Taylor, for joining me. Oh my gosh, thank you for, for having me. Do you have any last words of wisdom you wanna share with the listeners?

Be brave. Open your big mouth. You can do it. It all, it will serve you well. I personally feel really inspired by your work, so thank you so much

Thank you for leading the way on that. All right, my friends, I hope you enjoyed this episode. As always, if you love what you're listening to, drop me a line, give the podcast a five star rating to show us. The love and may you be vibrant.