EP080 | Healing Through Simplicity: How Naila Broke the Cycle of Chronic Illness and Reclaimed Her Life

Most women living with chronic illness are doing everything “right” — the diets, the supplements, the tests and still don’t feel better.

 Naila was one of them.

In this powerful conversation, Naila Mahmood shares her deeply personal journey through breast cancer (twice), autoimmunity, years of steroid medication, flare-ups, exhaustion, and the emotional toll of living in a body that feels unpredictable.

She had tried it all, Functional Medicine, naturopaths across continents, strict diets, endless supplements.

 But nothing truly shifted until she found a simpler way to heal.

Through our work together, Naila discovered something many women overlook:

Healing isn’t about doing more.
 It’s about listening more.

In this episode, she opens up about:

• Why strict protocols didn’t work — and what finally did
 • The mindset shift that helped her stop fighting her body
 • How she reduced medication and minimized flare-ups
 • Healing within real-life constraints: culture, food availability, energy levels
 • Why awareness—not perfection—is the true turning point
 • The emotional journey of rebuilding trust with her body
 • How community and connection sped up her healing

Naila's story is a testament to what becomes possible when women stop chasing protocols and begin reconnecting with their own wisdom.

This is healing without the hustle.
 This is Effortless Healing™ in practice.

 A reminder that even after decades of illness, your body is not your enemy and it has not given up on you.

Whether you’re navigating your own autoimmune journey or supporting a loved one, this conversation will bring you hope, grounding, and a new way to see what’s possible.

Listen in and remember: healing doesn’t require perfection — just presence.

Links Mentioned

• Explore more healing stories on Substack: healingfromwithin.substack.com
• Book a 20-minute Clarity Call
• Learn about the Healing Roadmap Session

Transcript

Welcome, Naila. I am so happy that you are here. I'm really excited to have this conversation with you. I've been waiting a while for this, so it's an honor to have you on this show. And before we get started, a very short introduction because I want you to share in your own words, you know a bit more about you. So Nyla has been working with me over the past couple of years or so. She has been dealing with multiple health challenges, but even as she has been, you know, dealing with them, I'm really inspired by her commitment and her courage to her own healing. And she is an accomplished woman in her own right. And I know that this conversation will inspire so many of you dealing with your chronic issues, health issues. You know, you may have felt, uh, you know, hopeless or that you're feeling disempowered or helpless to do much. Uh, this conversation, I'm sure, will ignite that spark to take charge of your own healing. So let's get started right away. 

Welcome, Naila, once again to this show. Thank you. Thank you Anindita. And, um, I also feel honored. More than that, I feel very lucky to have found you in my life and, uh, to be with me on this healing journey. And, uh, thanks for inviting me. Welcome to Embrace Your Healing Journey, a podcast for women with autoimmune and other chronic conditions to help them navigate their illness without fear of isolation and uncertainty and find relief from their symptoms. Your body is your guide and ally in healing. If you're ready to embrace this journey with compassion and awareness, then this show is for you. Tune in weekly as I, a Functional medicine Certified Health Coach, deliver tips and insights that demystify the healing process, guiding you towards the relief you deserve so that you can feel healthy and happy once more. Uh, what a lovely way to start. Uh, really appreciate you. So, Naila, just start with a bit about yourself. I would, you know, like our listeners, our audience to know a bit about what you do as a person, what interests you, anything that you want to share. 

So I'm a by training, I'm a graphic designer and, uh, you know, so. And, uh, I started my career at Microsoft as a interface designer for, uh, you know, the various, uh, apps, uh, Microsoft Project app doing the interface. And, er, it was a very high pressure job and, uh, Mhm. But very early in my life, I was 36 when I was diagnosed with the breast cancer. And uh, that and I had very little children. And I'm talking in terms of how the health and my, uh, career are quite, um, uh, intertwined as, uh, all women know that it is. You know, it really is that we have to make so many choices. And I made that choice to switch to teaching at that time because, um, I had I could get off the summer. I could, uh, you know, some, you know, my holidays at children's holidays. And it was a pace that I could function. So I had had a history the last 20 years of, uh, dealing with multiple health issues. But I am a cancer survivor. But once you go through all those, uh, chemotherapy and radiation and all of that, life is never the same. And immunotherapy is life is never the same. But and but I knew from the beginning that the answer to this is not in the. You know in the methotrexate and and and steroids which I had to take. And part of the the I developed an autoimmune and which affected my eyes and my ears. So um, I was on very heavy steroids and I went to quite a few naturopaths actually. I worked with one in New York. And then I very seriously worked with one in, uh, uh, a German person who was, uh, working in London and, uh, quite seriously, quite eight, ten months. I worked with them and I tried different things, all the things I knew that I had given up gluten. I had, um, you know, I hadn't I haven't had meat and all of that. I'd given up, and, uh, none of that was in my life, but something was not working, and, uh, you know, uh, and Covid, of course, you know, came and it kind of rattled everybody's routines, everybody's rhythms, everybody's, uh, you know, circuits. And, uh, at that time, my daughter found an M.D. on, uh, some, some, uh, podcast or some that she saw, and she was very inspired. And she actually set up my appointment with her. And I was skeptical because I had gone through so many. But, uh, you know, she really resonated with me in just the first interview because, uh, she was, uh, she seemed very sincere and very committed to her work and to people that, uh, it seemed like that the people that she works with. And, um, and to be honest, I didn't find a very commercial angle either. Which was also very entertaining. And I started that. And, uh, through these two years, um, I am I would say it has been a wonderful journey. She has become more of a friend. And, uh, because, uh, one thing that I didn't realize that, you know, okay. I'm exercising. I am eating. Right. Why am I not healing? What is wrong? I am working with this a naturopath, a naturopath, this functional medicine diet person who I like. And I am taking tons of vitamins that that something is not working. And, uh, then I met and then I realized two things which were very important. First of all, how do you function within your own realm? How do you function if you are living in certain parts of the world, where there are certain things that are just not available, you have to work with what you have. You know, we don't, uh, grow asparagus. We don't grow Brussels sprouts. I mean, we have Hindi, and we are told in our lives, you know, how do we work with those things, you know, how do we work with our own environment and to realize that how. And one other thing, which is become more and more important as I'm aging, is that the realization that exercise and food is just one aspect. The other aspect is your sleep. The other aspect is how you perceive the world and what kind of mental state, which kind of stresses and that relationship. I did not realize that how intrinsically it's tied to how intrinsically and nothing else would work if one of the beings are off of the work from the car. So, um, that was that has been my healing journey with, uh, uh, an because if I, because, uh, most of the time when I have my session, we end up meditating for five minutes, we end up talking about what has happened today. What? You know, like she is not a therapist, right? But she, uh, steers you to, uh, to that kind of mindfulness. She made me eat, uh, Chana for five minutes and, uh, made me chew. So, I mean, this is a lot of unlearning. Also unlearning the the myths that you grew up with, that, uh, you know, you can eat in front of the TV. Uh, you can eat your meals on the go. You, uh, the meals are when you are stressed for time, stress, for anything. The one thing you neglect is yourself, which is your food. That, uh, you would survive on a samosa, you would survive or, you know, and, um, also a lot of, uh, little things on how, where is the hidden dairy that I'm taking, whereas, you know, and, uh, being that strict about food comes much later. I think it's just awareness that if I am aware of. My environment, my life, my body. That is what it starts. 

And, uh, you know. Um, I have been off all steroids for now, over a year and all methotrexate for over a year. My, um, a lot of my, uh, difficulties, my, uh, flare ups, my bad mornings, my, uh, achy joints, all of that continues. But I think I have a little better grip on it. I don't have to go on steroids. I don't have to go on invasive things. And, uh, that would, uh, then reflect in other ways and, uh, and trying to be, you know, at this stage and on your life. The hardest thing is not the food. The hardest thing is changing your mindset because, uh, food, you could, you know, you can just, uh, you know, make your food. But if it has, it haven't worked for me for years till everything has to come together. So, um, I am really grateful for, uh, meeting her. And, uh, now, in some ways, I have graduated from her program, but I don't want to let go because, uh, I feel like if I let go, those reminders go away that, uh. Are you taking or taking care of your sleep? Uh, are you, uh, you know, are you lighting that candle outside and inside? So those kind of things are so important? 

 Thank you. That was so lovely to hear from your from your. Your point of view. I mean, I know what some of the things that we've done. But what a journey it has been. And you're absolutely right. Um, you know, and first of all, I appreciate all. You know, your honesty, your openness about sharing. You know, what you've been through. It's been a really tough journey for you in the last 20 years. But as I said, the introduction, the courage and the commitment is remarkable. And, um, and also a few things that you mentioned, you know, like, uh, the change in the mindset that we don't end up doing the little things that we tend to overlook. I think that being a being a, you know, being a huge shift and you're absolutely right. The strict diet and the protocols and all are important and are necessary medications are necessary. All of these things are necessary, but they are not enough. And you are again, absolutely right that, you know, awareness is the key. It all starts with that awareness. And we often don't start there. And we go straight into the protocols and 30 supplements. And I remember that when you started, that is where we were. And I think we've just built it, you know, build it one step at a time. And uh, when we do that, that's when we lay a strong foundation. And again, I think another very important point. You mentioned, Nyla, that you still have those flare ups. You still have those days. Uh, as anyone with any chronic condition will say, it's not that it ever 100% goes away. That's why I call healing a journey. It's a journey that you embark on. It will have its ups and downs, right? It's never going to be linear. But having said that, you actually know what you what needs to be done. You have a slightly better grip, like you said. And that's amazing, isn't it? I mean, so, uh, that's where we all want to be, to be in charge. And, um. Yeah. And, uh, you know, the other thing that I want to say to my healing sisters and brothers that, um, uh, you know, the, uh, lie is never how you expect it to be. You know, it is. It will always have challenges, because that's life. Life means challenges. Life means that you are thrown, uh, you're thrown a swing or once in a while and you have to deal with it. But, uh, the the thing that has kept me going, like, when my eyes, uh, became, came to a point. Like I cannot read books anymore. And that was a very big part of my life and, uh, and fine print I could not read, and I still cannot. I'll just, uh. And thank God that we are born in this day and age of technology that I have switched to, uh, audiobooks. I switched to, uh, reading things, uh, on the screen, hearing things on the screen. I hear the newspaper. So, uh, these kind of adjustments and, uh, and not to indulge in self-pity, because that's one path that I have really fought to go down that. You just look at people who overcome adversity, uh, of all kinds of adversities that happen in their lives and to keep going. And in that journey, you find people like to, well, uh, you know, who you connect with it, who you who have given me a lot of this courage to keep going. And, uh, I see her talking about her daughter in a very pragmatic, practical way and how she took charge of it. And that is what inspired my daughter to actually say that. Look, how she talks about it, is when it's coming from very personal, very from deep inside the heart. So in that aspect, I would say that that's another aspect of our lives that we need to keep looking and saying that, okay, these shall overcome, we shall overcome, we will keep on living. And you know, I'm a cancer survivor twice. Uh, and uh, uh, and I just never felt that I have to give up. I had never felt that I had to, um, just say that. No. This cannot I cannot go on and somehow kept adjusting life so that, you know, a scale of work and all of that, which takes a lot of recalibration, which takes a lot of, you know, it's like control all shift, start over again and you do and, uh, and you need people, uh, in your life who can give you that strength. And some of some of those are friends, but some of those are professionals. Yeah. I think, uh, you know, something that you shared and it reminded me of a quote, I think it's, uh, by John Lennon. Life is what happens to you while you're busy making other plans. Yes. So I love that quote because, yes, you're right, it's absolutely a reminder that, you know, life will give you these curveballs. And in fact, uh, yes. Uh, you know, it's that is the lesson that I learned the hard way when my daughter went to those severe health issues and in, in I don't know what they have shared with you, but I think, uh, I used to write a blog, uh, on an Indian perspective about our experiences. In fact, a dermatologist had, um, you know, sort of pretend that, you know, why don't you write about it? And I was willing to share my experiences. Most people don't want to talk about these things because they feel that it's I don't know. I mean, what they feel. But I thought that by sharing our experiences, it would probably, you know, help someone else who's going through this. So anyway, to cut a long story short, I started a blog in 2013, and one of the posts in I stopped writing in that blog because I write other in other places. Now was when life gives you lemons, make lemonade. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So that was our motto. In fact, I, you know, that's how I brought up my daughter. Like, you know, this is so. Which is the opposite of self-pity, of course. I mean, we do well in self-pity. From time to time, I have done that. But, yes, you cannot stay there. I think that cannot stay there. You cannot stay there. I mean, we need to acknowledge those feeling that we are feeling really bad about ourselves and sad for ourselves, but we can't stay there, so we have to find a way back. And yes, you're right. People can be there in your corner to help you. So tell me if let's just, uh, a few things, because I know that people, you know, who are listening to this or watching this, you know, it would help them to know, um, what made those years feel the most difficult for you? Like when you were going through. And I know you're going through, but you've been through, you know, uh, tougher challenges in the past. So what were you feeling physically and emotionally? And I'm sure that's probably tied into also what made those years even more difficult or the most difficult at that time. Right. You know, for anybody who has been through that journey, anybody who is a cancer survivor, they would know how difficult going through chemo and multiple chemo is and living with the fear of recurrence. And, uh, uh, you know, living also on that borderline of mortality, of having a third stage cancer, whether you're going to take it. All of those things are really, really difficult physically, emotionally to go through. And, uh, I think also that, uh, I was too young to be aware of, you know, I'm saying that I was too young in it eight years ago to be, uh, aware of, you know, it just takes to take some wisdom. It takes on a reflection. It takes, um, I think your children growing up that you, they they teach you. And in my teaching, I also, uh, have learned from the college students that I, uh, teach that the kind of adverse background they come from, you know, so adversity just doesn't come in a form of health. It comes in various forms. And how how do we function? How do we, you know, um, so, uh, it is a difficult journey for anyone who is going through it and, uh, it would it. Yeah. It takes a lot of, uh. Keeping your feet rooted on the ground like I look at a tree and how rooted it is and how you know the tree has a heartwood, the center is the heartwood of the tree, and that's the hardest part of the tree, the most precious wood, but it's dead wood. Then as the tree grows, the inside is dead, and the outside is the sap mode that provides life. But then dead wood keeps the tree standing, but gives gives the tree that strength, that structure that connects it to the roots to its roots. So I so, you know, life nature is a really good analogy of how we survive or how we weather the storms and how we age. Yeah, I love that analogy. And I actually didn't know. I mean, I must have read it at some point in geography maybe, but it's such a beautiful analogy and you're absolutely right. Um, you know, adversity teaches us. I mean, we learn the maximum lessons from adversity and not just through our own, but even from others that we interact with. Uh, and it's a in fact, there is another I love sports, uh, I think, uh, you know, quotes and books. Uh, if we all through our and somebody said this, if we all through our problems into a pile, we would soon take back what's ours as we know each other, right? You know. So that's actually true. Um, so I think some of these things keep us grounded. So thank you for sharing that analogy. I mean, that's that's a that's a lovely way of putting it. And we can learn a lot from nature too. So if we uh, of course. So that is what has been in the past. And we go through what we go through. And I think that's something that we're constantly doing. Um, you know, we are not the same person we were a year ago, maybe even six months ago. And we will not be the same person in one year down the line. Life will happen or you know. So how is your life different now, day to day, in how you feel and the way you live? I mean, and that can be from six months, one year, 20 years, you know, whichever. But how is your life back then? Now do you think? My life. There are 2 or 3 things that I have come to reconcile. First of all is the awareness of Uber and at what stage we are. What are our abilities? If you and are, you know, and making those adjustments in life like I have gone from teaching full time to being part time to, you know, doing many shows, you know, every year to, you know, just scaling back to be able to get up one morning and say, okay, my body is telling me that this is not a good day. Let's take a break or, uh, or that or this is going to be a good week. So we could probably accomplish some things. So, uh, so making those kind of adjustments in your life and not having too much demands for at least a driven person like me, that was a very big lesson, you know, to to do that and to be gentle to your body and to your mind. And, you know, we you know, us women a lot of times we. Saying that having a day of massage and relaxing is a good thing and it certainly is, is wonderful, but I think that state of mind has to be every day that where can we take a break? I mean, you know that if you're a young mother, you don't have time to relax. But. But then being aware at least helps that let's not take too many challenges, because our health requires us to function and to be there for ourselves and for others. So I think that's you made a very important point in Rila, and I think that's something that we are not taught. Uh, right, right. That we need to learn how to be guided by our own bodies, especially as women. Um, actually, we are taught the, uh, I think the opposite of this. It's like learning, unlearning and relearning, right? Unfortunately, the conditioning sort of. We know this intuitively when we are children, very young children. All of us know this, uh, you know, but as women, as we grow older, we are, you know, we learn all the things that we are not supposed to be doing. So I think a very important point that you mentioned is being guided by your own body and that we need to do at any point in time. And you're absolutely right. What we can do when we are a young mother with a newborn baby is not. You know how much self-care we can practice that time is not the same as when the children are, say, my age. Like my my children are much older. I can definitely put in much more time. So it's going to keep changing and we need to keep changing with it. But we have got that. We need to be in tune with ourselves and that's where it starts. Otherwise, you're right, it's not about the day at the spa, which is amazing, by the way. I mean, yeah, so I do go from time to time. I go once a month and that's important. But what you do every day matters more. As you rightly said, it's the, you know, that five minute pause day to day. It's it can be so simple. Right. But it's so effective. Yes. So um, yeah. So that's a very, very important point. Um, so what are some of the things I know you've been through a lot so you can pick up at any point, you know, at any point in your life, but what are some of the things, uh, you know, in the recent past that you've been able to do that once fell out of, you know, felt out of reach because you've mentioned that obviously, you, you know, you now prefer audiobooks because you're not able to, uh, read the fine print. But on the other hand, what are some of the things that you are now able to do that maybe you are not able to do earlier anything that you think? Well, the the thing was that, uh, you know, anybody on an autoimmune journey is always looking. It's it's a quest. It's a request to to to to a destination which is more of a journey than a destination. And you're always saying that, okay, if I do this, maybe it'll get better. If I do that, it'll get better. And it's frustrating because I thought I was doing everything and it's not getting that. So, uh, the one thing that has happened in the past two years, and I have to thank you for that a lot, is that how to live within your cultural and, uh, uh, within your own, uh, not just cultural, but within your own milieu, with your own environment and function within that. Like how what are things? Uh, just some to all the, the sub Z's that we have, all the vegetables that we have. How do we work with those? How do we work? Uh, if we are a vegetarian, how do we function? How do we take care of our protein and create a balance where you feel that you are doing everything? And once that I reach that point, which I feel that I was doing everything, I just it was a, uh, inner satisfaction that, look, I am doing everything now, you know? Or should I be doing this? Should I be eating this? Or I had sugar or I had cake. You know. So. So also, I think that a lot of functional medicine doctors are very unforgiving. And and that gives me that, that, you know, and I'm but I was a I must say I, that I was an easy person because I don't have food cravings in that way. I didn't have um, I was exercising regularly and all of that. But finding that little balance and saying it's okay to have a piece of cake sometimes it's okay to slip once in a while to have, you know, it's it's okay as long as you are aware of what is happening inside your body, as long as you know that the food you are eating, the kind of energy is, is generating and the kind of effects it would have on your immediate mood, on your weekly mood, or your monthly mood. I think those are the factors that I have learned in the past two years that I have reached a point also where I have the willpower to go to a dinner and not be tempted. That's another thing, because the temptation to stay well, the temptation is far too strong. Then the temptation to slip into, you know, this food binge. Mhm. You know, um, I think two things that you said. Um, of course I work uh, you know, with this so I know, but still, I mean, do you think that you pointed out one is that, you know, this is our lives? Okay. So we need to make it work in our lives, in our routines, expecting women to do otherwise, or even men for that matter. It doesn't work. It's not sustainable. So I think the whole approach, you know that and this is something I learned the hard way when I was dealing with my daughter. And then, of course, over the past eight years of working with men, mostly women, that I, we need to make it work for wherever you are right now. Right. So it has to fit into your life, is what I'm trying to say. So when you can fit into your life. So no matter what vegetables are available, no matter what kind of diet you prefer, what kind of taste preference you have, what kind of energy levels, you know. So it has to be customized and you are the best judge of that. Right. I mean, I can only guide and I think that's where it works. And you're right. Uh, you know, you are really. You have been really committed to this, so it just made it much easier. But but this is the only way that it works. This is the only way that it's sustainable. So it is a and that's probably where, you know, we've reached a stage and it's true with, you know, the client that I have worked with that you reach a stage where you don't want to do that anymore, or even if you do something or you take something, you do it with some intention or with some awareness, right? And that's okay, because the the point is not to survive. The point is to thrive and find that balance. Yeah. So I think really, really important. And um, so, uh, just coming to the last couple of points that I wanted to ask you, was there a moment, uh, that you realize that your you trusted your body again or that you developed a better relationship? Is there anything that shifted for you and what inner shift made the biggest difference for you? If it was connected? Anything that you would like to share? Yes. Uh, you know. So. A lot of it was also just growing up, and a lot of it was also that the this information that is available to women now was not ever available even 15 years ago. It didn't have this kind of access to, you know, like our, our monthly cycles and when you when and when this medical science who has made tremendous, uh, you know, their tremendous, uh, success that it has made. But on the other hand, it is not holistic. Like if you put on immunotherapy, the way it kind of screws up your, uh, adrenaline's and all your system and your cycles. Nobody was talking about it. So I think that that kind of an approach really, uh, helps. Uh, and another thing. Sorry, I just deleted, but, uh, you know, but the the one other thing that I would say, which is, uh, which is very important, was that, you know, when these kind of things happen to me, to my body, and when you're going through it, you know, there's a lot of times that we turn around and say, why me? You know, and, uh, by is, uh, I took care of my body. I ate well, I, uh, you know, exercise. Why is my body betraying me? And I think through a gentle process and through, you know, going through. This kind of a healing journey. I have come to a point where I'm actually thankful to my body that I that it's stood by me. It, uh, it did gave me strength to heal. It, uh, just didn't give up on me. So there. This switch was huge. Suddenly you you're. The way you look at your body becomes really different. It is your friend, and it's. You're not fighting against it. You're working with it. And, uh, I think this is truly the biggest shift that I think I find that, um, you know, most women make, uh, because I, as I said, I mostly work with women with autoimmune conditions because I find that most of us are, you know, have learned to be at war with our body. Like they're cutting things out. We are suppressing things in our bodies. We are, you know, the even the language that we use is, is like, you know, it's a war language. Uh, so so what I realized, and that's what I've, you know, over the years, I developed the body wise healing framework. It's like being bit guided by your own body. In fact, we've done, uh, you know, a few activities where making your body your friend writing a letter. All of these are very. This seems very simple, but over a period of time, they actually sort of change the way we look and appreciate our own bodies. Which is what, because this is not something that, again, we are taught or, you know, we know how to do, in fact, just the opposite, the social media and the messages that we get are just the reverse, right? But it's such a huge shift to know because then you know, and you don't need me to tell you whether you're on the right path or not. So that's that's really huge. And actually, that brings me to someone who is listening or watching and who feels stuck and uncertain or not confident because you know, they're not here yet. What would you tell them about finding hope and taking their first step? Where it is a journey and it's not going to be easy, but, um, but it's like riding the wave, you know, and, uh, you know, you adjust yourself as the way it goes up and the way it goes down and, uh, you know, just just finding that rhythm, just finding that. Okay. If I do certain things, it's going to make me feel better. It's eventually going to get me off those awful steroids. It's going to. And it's possible. I have seen it. It's really possible it can happen. So just that that hope is that stay with it. Don't give it up. You know, stay with it. This is natural healing. This is listening to your body. This is a this is counter to what we are told all the time that, you know, they're kind of, you know, you if you're in pain, take a Panadol. If you're in pain, you know, and fight and yeah, yeah, yeah Constantly. That is one thing that I would say to people that, you know, find your own Panadol. Yo. That's lovely. Yeah. What a lovely way to end the conversation so that, you know, basically stay with it. As you said, it takes time. It's not a quick fix. The way I said it's a marathon not a sprint. So you have to prepare for it mentally, emotionally and physically. But yes, but there is light at the end of the tunnel. Is that anything that I have not asked you that you would like to share as we end this? You know, I, I think I have spoken about most things, but, uh, what I am also just discovering is that, uh, having a group of women who have been through this and, uh, sort of a support group, and it's wonderful to see that, uh, everybody's human, everybody falters, but everybody gets up, everybody goes, and there are these. If there is this kind of emotional support of somebody emotionally. Holding your hand. You know that. And saying it's okay. You know, you you know it's okay to write through this flare up. You know, and you just see where you where you went wrong. And it's okay. So that's that's another aspect that I just wanted to say how important the, the women fraternity is in. Actually, it's a I think it's a very good place to, you know, to pause because yes, you're absolutely right. Healing happens in community, uh, because, you know, uh, uh, we work together and I'm in your corner. But this is something that I have always known and I've been trying to find my way. So I'm actually working on a couple of things so that I'll be sharing that soon. Uh, you know, and the community has always been at the back of my mind, uh, just trying to find the right format, etc.. But I think I'm getting there, and I know you're part of one such community with me, so thank you, Nyla. Thank you for sharing your insightful experience there. Thank you for being here. I'm so happy that, you know, you came on the show. And thank you for inviting me. And thank you for, uh, you know, giving me this confidence and, uh, I'm grateful. All right. Thank you. Okay. Bye bye.