The Gaslit Truth
Welcome to The Gaslit Truth Podcast – the mental health wake-up call you didn’t know you needed. Dr. Teralyn and Therapist Jenn are here to rip the bandaid off and drag you into the messy, uncomfortable, and brutally misunderstood world of the mind.
Think you’ve got it all figured out? Think again. Everything you thought you knew about mental health is about to be flipped on its head. From outdated diagnoses to the shady underbelly of Big Pharma, these truth-telling therapists are here to tear down the myths, expose the industry’s dirty secrets, and unpack the uncomfortable realities most people are too afraid to touch.
In a world drowning in misinformation, The Gaslit Truth Podcast cuts through the noise with raw, unfiltered conversations that break down walls and challenge the so-called experts. This isn’t your grandma’s therapy session – it's a relentless, no-holds-barred exploration of what’s really going on in the world of mental health.
Warning: This podcast isn’t for the faint of heart. It’s for those who are ready to question everything, confront the lies head-on, and dive deep into the truth you were never meant to find. Because real healing starts with facing the ugly, uncomfortable truths nobody wants to admit.
Welcome to The Gaslit Truth Podcast – where mental health gets real, the revelations are explosive, and nothing is off-limits. Tune in, open your mind, and prepare to unlearn everything you thought you knew.
The Gaslit Truth
Because You Are Alive You Can HEAL: With Emilie Jordao, Integrative Nutrition & Psych Med Taper Coach
Emilie's journey from the lush jungles of Brazil to the challenges of life in the U.S. is nothing short of inspiring. With her unique perspective as an integrative nutrition health coach, yoga teacher, and reiki practitioner, she navigates the intricate world of psychiatric medications, offering a refreshing holistic approach to mental health. Emily shares her personal story of how life's transitions and a reliance on medications like Lexapro prompted her to seek alternative healing methods. Her mission? To guide individuals in reclaiming their lives and rediscovering joy through emotional healing, nervous system regulation, and body nourishment.
Listeners will embark on a heartfelt exploration of the highs and lows of managing mental health, including the rollercoaster of emotions that accompany medication withdrawal. Emily candidly discusses the importance of patience and compassion during this journey, addressing the common misconception that feeling better is immediate after reducing medication. By sharing her experiences and the complexities of attributing improvements to medication versus life circumstances, Emily illuminates the path to mental healing, highlighting the power of personal agency and the significance of finding the right support.
As we explore transformation and self-discovery, we delve into the profound impact of lifestyle changes on well-being. Emilie reflects on setting personal boundaries, embracing new identities, and nurturing gut health through mindful dietary choices. By eliminating processed foods and substances like alcohol and caffeine,
The Gaslit Truth Podcast will be live and in person at the Feed the Recovering Brain Conference in Dublin, Ohio
Join us with the top names in brain health, including Christina Veselak, Hyla Cass, and Julia Ross, author of The Mood Cure.
We’ll be bringing you interviews and behind-the-scenes content as we explore how nutrition transforms mental wellness.
At Cardinal Point, we are dedicated to guiding individuals toward their true north in health, wellne
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Dr. Teralyn:
Therapist Jenn:
Hey everyone, welcome back to another episode of the Gaslit Truth Podcast. I am your host therapist Jen, here with my co-host, dr Tara Lynn, and we just want you to know that psych meds are robbing you of joy.
Speaker 2:Boom.
Speaker 1:Oh boy Mic drop.
Speaker 2:Not that we've ever talked about this before. Oh, I think we've got personal stories to bring in here. We've got all the shiz. Like it's gonna it's gonna be a good episode no, we got stuff before that, though.
Speaker 1:We got sprites, sprites I do.
Speaker 2:I have a surprise. So after six years drum roll please of this thing sitting in my drafts, my book is out. Yay, your best brain, you got to watch her on YouTube what she's doing in the dance of joy. This, uh, this motherfucker took me six years. It did not. It was six years of procrastination until I just decided that the end of last year it had to be done, and I'm actually glad I waited, because I think it's better than what it was before. So anyway, your best brain, you can find it on Amazon, of course.
Speaker 1:Yes, you can, it's there.
Speaker 2:It's there. Leave me only five-star reviews. If you want to leave me less than a five-star, just don't do it. Send me an email instead.
Speaker 1:So, terry, to give you a little plug for this book that you wrote, by the way, why do people need this? Why do they need?
Speaker 2:it Because it helps you with mental health differently. So it's my whole shtick right, it's my whole shtick in this tiny little book. And I think the thing that I'm the most proud of with the book is that I wrote it to be very consumer friendly. Okay, I didn't write it as a textbook. I wrote it kind of like me writing you a letter. So when I tell people to read the book, I'm like, did you hear my voice in the book? Like did you hear me talk to you? And people are saying, yes, I could totally hear your voice coming through in this book. So this is kind of like your own little personal sessions with me. And my story is also in the book, which I think is important, because it's not just a provider telling you what to do, it's a provider telling you where they were and what helped them as well. So, plus, you know, all the goodies about brain health and amino acids and nutrition are also packed in here too.
Speaker 1:I would expect no less.
Speaker 2:Yes, that's right. So get your hands on your Best Brain. Five-star reviews. Only people, just like we say on the Gaslit Truth.
Speaker 1:Only five-star reviews. That's true. Don't even give us bad stuff. We don't even want to hear it. We don't even want to hear it.
Speaker 2:That's the thing All right. With that in mind, we're going to bring in our special guest today, and we have been in communication with her for months, I think, to get her on the show.
Speaker 2:Yes, we have, she's here, emily, she's here. Emily is an integrative nutrition health coach, yoga teacher, reiki practitioner and EFT practitioner, passionate about helping individuals heal. Naturally, you're in the right spot. Specializing in supporting clients during psychiatric medication tapers, she continues her personal journey with professional expertise to guide others towards vibrant mental, physical and spiritual health. Through her Beyond Medication method, emily offers personalized coaching, emotional healing processes and holistic practices to help clients release limiting beliefs, regulate their nervous systems and nourish their bodies. Her mission is to empower others to reclaim their lives and rediscover joy on their path to healing. And I found her over on TikTok months ago because she was one of the only people at that time that I ran into talking about psychiatric medication withdrawal who wasn't a licensed medical doctor or something like that that was doing it, and I was like, please bring her here, because I think this space is big enough for everybody and also we need a lot more integrative care in the space of psychiatric medication withdrawal. So please welcome Emily to the show.
Speaker 2:Thank you, now keep in mind Emily this is a podcast, so you can't just nod your head this is a podcast, so you can't just nod your head.
Speaker 1:You gotta give some words that's for youtube yes yeah I, I agree with terry I emily I. You are doing some really good stuff out there. I found you um which is about a year ago now, and when you came, on today. I'm like why is she not with this, with her thing, doing this? Because I'm confused. Like you need to be talking like this, like you were in the at the beginning.
Speaker 1:I know you still do that she's got a mic and you can hear her so well compared to so many other content creators, because she holds that little sucker right up. So like she's coming on today with this, I'm like but I love that.
Speaker 3:I love that. Yes, yes, absolutely yeah. This setups much better, like, make sure that like I hear you so well and there's like no picking you know anything else, and and just let me know, like I am in the jungle of brazil and if there's any other noises, that's why I'm inside a mosquito net, uh, because, so so are you, are, you're outside right now yes, I'm outside my my, can you?
Speaker 1:pan with your camera, or is it really stationary, like so we can?
Speaker 3:see? No, you can't see my heart. There we go. There's the jungle.
Speaker 2:You guys got to go to YouTube to see this. This is hilarious. This is really really cool.
Speaker 3:This is a cool thing, the only way I can sit still is if I'm inside of this mosquito net.
Speaker 2:Because you literally can't go anywhere.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it's just exactly like I am either moving or, you know, or sitting inside of this, but I thank you so much for bringing me in. I really, really appreciate it and I can't wait to just, you know, have this conversation. And thanks for mentioning Tara Lane about me just being a different kind of practitioner in this space. For the longest time I didn't feel like I had a voice, I didn't feel like I was qualified to help people with this, and then I realized that my biggest qualification was my story, was my path, and that's why people come to me because, like you said in your book, you relate to people at a personal level. You've been through it, so it took me a long time to find my voice and I feel just so honored to be at a personal level. You've been through it, so it took me a long time to find my voice and I feel just so honored to be in a space where this voice is valued. So, thank you.
Speaker 2:You know, it's really interesting because even if you have, like, tons of medical credentials in this space, it still takes a long time to find your voice. So don't ever think that that should stop you. And, as a matter of fact, I think the people who have the biggest voices are the ones who's been through it. So, with that in mind, I think we would like to share with our listeners your story. So how did you get here? How did you get to this place of wanting to help others with this specific thing medication tapering. So go for it, it's your show now.
Speaker 3:Thank you, thank you so much, yeah, so I'll start from the beginning. I was a happy, healthy child. I'm from Brazil. I grew up, you know, near the rainforest, just you know access to nature and this beautiful countryside home, and when I was a teenager I moved to Rio and that was the start of my story with my mental health issues.
Speaker 3:Rio de Janeiro is a very dangerous city, as you know, a lot of us know and so you encounter a lot of crime all the time, and so that was definitely one of the factors that started getting me into, you know, developing certain traumas related to safety. But then, about when I was 15 years old, I had what I call a perfect storm, meaning I was, you know, so many different things came my way that my nervous system and my body had a hard time dealing it all at once. So I was dealing with the crime from the city. I then was put on birth control. I started taking birth control, I took the Gardazil shot, the HPV shot, and I also, on top of that, started a series of allergy shot treatments, which you know for those that don't know, and I'm sure there's different kinds these days, but at that time I was taking one shot a week for a month and then once a month for years.
Speaker 3:So with factors that now I know about my body and I'll mention in a little bit, I was not able to deal with the amount of toxin overload that I was exposed to, as well, as you know, psychological trauma that I was at that time and I developed within, if that, all you know, happened close together. Within a couple of months I was diagnosed with over six different psychiatric conditions that I did not have prior to that. So panic disorder, generalized anxiety disorder, major depressive disorder. I was diagnosed with PTSD, agoraphobia, claustrophobia, depersonalization, derealization, dissociation and the label-.
Speaker 1:I thought we were flippant in the.
Speaker 2:States here, no kidding Wow.
Speaker 3:So the diagnosis. They did not know what was happening with me and the interesting thing was at that time, at 15, I was already so against medication. I remember thinking like I don't want to take something that I'm going to take for the rest of my life. So I resisted, even though I had all of these different symptoms. The doctors got through with me. I started taking a drug that I don't even recall what it was. I remember I had serious like GI issues, so I stopped. You know it was within a matter of a few weeks and it wasn't until but the system that these symptoms persisted.
Speaker 3:Over the years you started to get, you know less and less. You know less and less intense as the years went by, because you know my body's metabolizing the toxins. I'm now in therapy, but when I was 23 years old, I you know a few years back I had moved from Brazil to the United States and around 23,. I was done with college, had a breakup, was moving to a new place. I was processing trauma that had happened right before I left from Brazil. I was again in another perfect storm, still with the lingering effects of all of that toxicity that I was exposed to years prior. And that's when my doctor got through me and your symptoms. You have a deficiency in your brain that you can't produce of serotonin, and it's like you have diabetes. You can't write like anyone else heard this in their life, oh no.
Speaker 2:You just said the words in front of Terry Just went through everything.
Speaker 3:Yes, Damn it, there's nothing you can do. I remember you saying your humor, you mask really well with your humor. And he was right, that was my mask and that's how you showed the world that I was not doing well. But that's how he convinced me to, you know, to take Lexapro. And I remember thinking like I don't want to be on this forever. And he was like, well, we'll put you for six months and after six months we will reevaluate. See where you at.
Speaker 3:So I started taking that and, lo and behold, for six months I felt better. I really did. You know it was not something. I didn't develop any side effects, my anxiety was better. But also, within those six months, I had a new group of friends. I was enjoying my job. I was enjoying the place that I was.
Speaker 3:The heartbreak was, you know, I dealt with that. So I was in a better place, right? So to me it's hard to pinpoint it was was it the drug? Was it the life circumstance? What made me feel better? But all I know is that within after six months, I realized that a lot of the symptoms had returned, and that was, you know, more related to anxiety.
Speaker 3:I would wake up with these nighttime palpitations that took me to the ER a couple of times. The depersonalization and the realization, the dissociation, was the most chronic thing I've experienced. For you know, during this entire time, and whoever's been through DPDR know that it's one of the most unsettling symptoms, like you think you're going out of your mind, unsettling symptoms. Like you think you're going out of your mind, you think that no one experiences that, that you're having some sort of spiritual hijacking, that's. You know, it's really incredibly difficult to deal because you don't feel like yourself and you feel out of touch with reality. So I started to live small, I started to, you know, I told my doctor I'm not ready to come off. These things are still happening, um and um. I literally started to.
Speaker 3:You know, my way of dealing with it was avoiding it.
Speaker 3:So anything that would trigger, that was driving and I going out and I, um, you know, anything with like, really bright lights or different things, different social situations, going to a concert, I would avoid at all costs, because that's when it triggers and I, you know, and or I would take a Xanax, because that's my doctor said, if you, if you overwhelm, take a Xanax.
Speaker 3:So that was my way of dealing with it, right, um, and so that that started to go on and eventually I, um, I, you know, I realized like I want to come off this drug. I don't know what's doing to me in the long term. Even though I was not on a health journey at that point I was not taking a look at my diet, my exercise, my mindfulness I just had this sense that I'm like I just don't want to be on this forever. So I got in touch with my doctor and he gave me the classic tapering guideline I'm not sure if any of you heard this before. So half it for two weeks and half it for another two weeks and then come out, you know.
Speaker 2:I got to stop you right there because I was just dragged on Instagram for a post that I said if your doctor says do this, just take a step back and reevaluate. There's nothing wrong with doing that, like all the stuff. And I was like clearly you've never done it.
Speaker 3:Yeah, exactly, it's like like there's nothing wrong, like have you been through it, right, that's it, and that's what that's. What is so wild about this path is some people will do it no problem, and some people will really just have a horrible time. The problem is the people that did it no problem, you know. It's like, you know, older people are, you know, now saying like oh, I, I smoke a cigarette and I drink black coffee first thing in the morning, and I'm, you know, and I'm 90 years old and I'm fine it worked for me I'm fine.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'm like fine. Fine for a second.
Speaker 1:You know, like yes, yeah, I would argue that's like self-awareness, you know Right, right. And how optimally fine are you, because if you cut that cigarette and that black cup of coffee out about 30 years earlier, you probably feel totally different, right You're missing out. You're missing out on what, what it could really feel like.
Speaker 2:So yeah, cause you don't know what you don't know. Yeah, okay.
Speaker 3:It's different and and so you didn't like that advice, emily, you were, you were hesitant. I remember having a brain zap and I'm like I just had an electrical shock inside my brain and I'm looking around, like I'm looking at my hands, I'm like, oh my gosh, what just happened? Started Googling it and find it. It's the thing Did not tie that to psych med withdrawal at all. I just like, okay, I'm glad it happens. If it happens again, I'll go to the ER, get a CAT scan or something Right. And we tried. And then every time I tried to quit it, increasingly anxiety, increasingly, uh, dpdr very intensified. I will go back to my doctor like, hey, this is what I'm feeling. You're like, see, that's why you can't come off the drug. Do you understand? This is your condition returning. You just can't get off. Like, let's, let's put you back on. You know five to 10 milligrams of Lexapro. You back on, you know five to 10 milligrams of Lexapro. So for seven years I went on this. You know like just what I call this? Uh, mary, go round or there's another name but just basically just continue to be in the cycle of trying to quit and even again, not knowing any better, I'm like, okay, if I did this, this uh process, did this process, you know, within a month, what if I then slowly go to 2.5? Right, like the things that we start to do when we don't have any other guidance, we have our inner intuition telling us okay, just go slower this time. And I did that, and I did that, and I spent years, just, you know, just just again, doing the cuts that were available to me, which, from Lexapro, was 10, break it to five, get a five milligram pill, break it to 2.5. And that's the end of the road from 2.5 to jump to zero, because there's nothing else you can do. I did not know about the liquid formulation at the time, was not, you know, not a thing for me. So I was 2.5 for the longest time, right, and um, again, I would try to go to zero from 2.5 and have withdraw a income back. So, in this cycle, for seven years, um, until that was um the last year that I considered that I was still inside the matrix.
Speaker 3:You know what I mean by that is, I was blindly following the directions of my doctor. I was not looking for anything deeper at the root. And what and I always go back like what made me wake up. What was the wake up call? And to me it was, and I think for a lot of people, um, it was. It was really something physical. I looked at myself in the mirror and I had gained a lot of weight, I had acne, my hair was falling and, and at that point I'm like, I'm like in my mid twenties, like why do I look and feel this way? Right? Um, and I remember going to the dermatologist and she was the first one who ordered me, you know, some blood tests to check my vitamin levels, first doctor at that point to do that.
Speaker 2:Dermatologist.
Speaker 3:A dermatologist was like I want to know why your hair is falling.
Speaker 1:Yeah Well, I mean, she probably was thinking about putting you on Accutane or something too somewhere in there right. Been there twice so yeah, they'll check the levels. I'm not not giving credit to your derm, but I'm just saying there's usually an ulterior agenda.
Speaker 3:Okay, oh she did that, exactly what you did, but but I'm like thankful for it, Cause she saw like my B12 was at 186, right, Like if you are in this, you know that for mental health, you know over 500 thousands is where you want to have your B12.
Speaker 3:It was 186. And I'm like, why is that? So I remember thinking, why is that? All? She told me, take a B12 supplement, and that just that kind of woke me up. I'm like, okay, but why am I B12 solo?
Speaker 3:Then I started going into the rabbit holes of health. I had a wonderful, I have a wonderful friend who is a health coach and she works with children with development delays and she traces it all back, you know, to to childhood toxicities, dietary traumas, you know. And she was the one like, have you heard of Kelly Brogan? I think you should hit, read her book. And that's when a mind of your own. That was the book that kick-started the, my waking up to antidepressants and and I'm like, oh my gosh, it was actually terrifying to read that book while on meds. So I just want to put that out there. Um, sometimes we are in a place that we can do that, Sometimes we're not, so it's okay to to not go there if you are tapering. Um, just want to say that because multiple times I was scared to death. Uh, but, um, when you are at such a point that only that kind of fear that was able to snap me out of fear that was able to snap me out of, you know, just following blindly the directions from my doctor. So I started to just do a complete revolution in my life.
Speaker 3:That's when I decided to become a health coach and I did a 30 days AIP diet, so the autoimmune protocol. Dr Amy Myers she was another doctor that inspired my path. So I completely went in a, you know, very anti-inflammatory diet, added some supplements for gut healing and just in there, like I lost weight, my palpitation started to go away and I decided that I needed to then again start to look at my health more holistically. I had not taken care of my body. It was not exercising. I loved yoga but I was not meditating, I wasn't exercising. So I decided to go back on that and eventually get certified as a yoga teacher. Um, so I started to doing all of that. Uh, got certified in Reiki to be able to give myself energy healing, give others energy healing, but still didn't know much about tapering. So I was feeling more confident and I'm like this is when I go. I went from 2.5 to zero, very confident. That was the last time I was going to do that and for a few months I was fine. So I'm like success. And for a few months I was fine. So I'm like success, I am healed and great. Um, it all worked out and it all hit.
Speaker 3:Two, two to three months after my last fill of Lexapro, I had the most horrible depressive episode I've had in my entire life. I felt like I was in a tunnel I couldn't see I've had in my entire life. I felt like I was in a tunnel. I couldn't see more than five minutes ahead of me. Uh, that is, and that was the whole of hopelessness that I couldn't get out of bed. Um, and, and I just you know that's when I went back and I talked to my doctor. I'm like what is happening? Right, I went back to him. I'm like I just I stopped taking Lexapro. It was good for two months, two and a half months, and now I'm in this deep and then again, now I know I just let myself be convinced because in practicing radical responsibility, I know that he was doing his job and I'm responsible for my health but what he told me was like you need to go back on 10 Lexapro, 10 milligrams, again 10 milligrams. I was on 2.5 for years.
Speaker 3:Um, and, and I did. I did because I was so desperate, so that it's something that I want to bring to you, to the people in this path that are in such deep places that they consider going back to the medication and sometimes they do to give yourself compassion, to give yourself grace, because when you're in the deepest, deepest depths, you just want to be okay, Um, and sometimes it is a life and death situation. It was for me. I was, I was, I was having, you know, incredible SI, and so I just want to give people because a lot of people come to me like hey, it was a mistake going back, Like I can't believe I did this. I'm like just forgive yourself for what you did when you were trying to survive.
Speaker 3:Okay, okay, um, and that is the one of the things that I need to keep coming back to myself over and over. That's where I was. I was trying to survive, so I did. I like I'd rather be on this medication forever than feel this way. Right, that was my thinking when I was put back on 10 milligrams of lexapro my brain for being off of it for a few months now it went complete haywire. That was.
Speaker 3:I never developed full akathisia, but that was the closest to akathisia that I ever developed, which was this feeling of having this like electric current just running through my body and restlessness and not being able to sleep, but also not being able to be awake either, Just being this complete fog of depersonalization and derealization.
Speaker 3:Fog of depersonalization and derealization. My body, my nervous system went complete haywire and I remember when that was happening to my body, I'm like this is the last time I do this, this is the last time I go on and off of this medication, the next time I'm going to go off for good. And then I made that my mission. I made that my mission to just find the right help, find the right people, and that's when the world opened up to me. I found Surviving Antidepressants, I found Facebook groups, I found Dr Julia Britz, who was at that time working for the Alternative Med Center, and I, you know, found her as someone that guided me through a hyperbolic taper and I learned that I could go to these really little dosages of Lexapro and that's why I did. That's what I did. With her help, I went, started going super slow, doing 10 percent cuts and bigger cuts in the beginning because I was able to tolerate that, but at 2.5, then when stuff hits the fan.
Speaker 1:It was always the plasma levels right at the end are the worst. The last 10 percent is the worst.
Speaker 3:It's so counterintuitive. And again, another, another message for people in this path Like it's, it's so if you, if you feel like it's getting harder as you get lower, it's real, it's not something in your head, it's not just like, oh, now you're fearing being off the drug. There's definitely a mental dependency there. I had it. But it's not just that, it's your. You know there is such thing as your receptor's capacity having that hyperbolic curve right. It gets harder as it gets closer to the end. And then so it took me 18 months. So first my first recommendation was you know, within a month you'll be able to come off. And to me it took 18 months and I held at like 0.1.
Speaker 3:I held for two months because I was terrified, but also the symptoms were so intense and during this whole process, just doing so many different, trying different healing modalities and just continuing to to find what was that would help me go through that. Um, but I, I realized that you know, it was after my last dosage, my last syringe of Lexapro. My work continued. It was not like, oh, you got to zero and then now, um, you know, now you're, then, now you know, now you're, you know off withdrawal. There is such a thing as protective withdrawal when you're off the drug but you're still having symptoms related to that and I definitely had that. I had. For me was the emotional numbing. So I always that word is not correct me if I'm wrong anhedonia, anhedonia, what?
Speaker 2:is it Anhedonia?
Speaker 3:Anhedonia yeah, where you just feel flat.
Speaker 3:I had that blah exactly not be able to access joy. Yeah, and I realized that, you know, during this path, I also made I could call them mistakes. But let's just try an era of different things, right, like different strong killing protocols, detox protocols, or or you know, like out there, um, just peak treatments that I thought this is what's going to get me out of withdrawal. Right, I'm going to do this cleanse and I'm going to, and, and quickly, I I found out that was the same thinking that I had applied to the pill there is this one pill?
Speaker 3:that's going to cure me. That's true, yeah, and I'm trying to find out with an alternative right Like oh, if I can pause for a second to hear, emily, what you're describing is so incredibly real for so many people that are listening right now.
Speaker 1:It really is, and I like what you said about just trying to survive. That same mindset, I think, applies to with what you were just talking about, like this one more thing this is going to be the thing, and it is like a survival mode, because think about what that does for your central nervous system when you're constantly thinking this one thing and then it's a letdown because that one thing didn't actually be the thing, right? But so many people sit in that Terri and I have clients that come to us all the time. And is this brain health protocol going to be the thing that works for me? Somebody asked me that this week and I said I would never guarantee that to you because in fact, it's probably not this one thing, it's probably not, and it's a whole way to shift the way you view all these interventions that you're doing, because, as I'm sure you're going to get to is, it's it's all of them, it's everything.
Speaker 3:Yes, it's all of them, and it's complex and it's different for everyone. And and that's why it's so complex is because we just want again. I have a method right that I created. This is my beyond medication method, but within that method there's so much flexibility, there's so much room for the bio-individuality. No one size fits all Anything, not even diet right. There's very little things that I say apply to everyone, and it's live closest to your natural instincts or natural self as possible and you know and find connection with yourself, others, nature and God. That's the only thing that I can say okay, this is, but how it looks, it will be different for everyone.
Speaker 2:I want to just interject here for a second because we're you're trying to and I've I've said this to people too like you're trying to reconnect to your own intuition here and which is very difficult when you're in a state of disconnection to yourself period and to the world, right, like the derealization, depersonalization, like I remember feeling like my head wasn't connected to my body anymore, like you know all these things. And we're saying, like you got to feel something, you got to tap back in, you got to go with what your gut is saying, not what I'm telling you to do. Right, so you know, people come in and they're like I want the secret sauce, I want the recipe, I want this thing.
Speaker 1:And I don't think they like it when I say like these are guidelines, the recipe is within you. That's exactly what it is. This week I got Jen tell me why this will work, tell me how what you're proposing is going to work. And I said I'm a terrible salesman because I'm going to tell you I can't tell you that I can't tell you that so? Yeah, I'm not going to try to convince you of anything here. I'm not, which makes me a very terrible businesswoman, but damn ethical because the reality of it is that's not real.
Speaker 1:It is not real, but this is the world we live in. This is that world that we live in.
Speaker 2:Yeah that, we're like give me the secret sauce.
Speaker 1:You give it to me.
Speaker 2:We talk about Jen and I have talked about this all the time. Yes, someone Like letting go of your personal decisions and agency on this matter. You cannot. You have to maintain that at all times. Don't give it to me. I don't want that, yeah.
Speaker 1:I don't want that. You got to find it.
Speaker 2:You got to find it. You gave it to your doctor, who prescribed all these things to you. That's one of the reasons why you got into the space is because you outsourced it all. You know, like I want to give it away, I don't want to find it within me. That seems too terrible, you know and you talked about the first time the two months away like you were still in protracted withdrawal at that time, and I would also argue that the suicidal ideation that you had was akathisia likely.
Speaker 1:Yes, so that probably was your first introduction and you didn't realize it.
Speaker 2:So there's so much to this, and also the idea that when people start, like you start, like the 10% starting wherever people start Emily started at 10%. You don't have to start at 10%, right, like you can start where you want. But it's so like when you start something, it's empowering, like this is going well, like this is going really well, you know, and then you get down to that last little bit and you're like this isn't going so well anymore, like this is the hardest thing. So you kind of lose that hope, you know, which is required and essential to get through the rest. Right, so it's like starting a new diet plan. Hey, I'm losing weight. I'm losing weight. I just gained a pound. Oh no, what's happening?
Speaker 3:Right, it's going great.
Speaker 2:It fizzles out in the end and that is just a neurochemical, physiological thing that's happening within you. It has nothing to do with you necessarily as a person. It has to do with how your body chemistry is reacting to the taper. And I think people don't realize that too, because you know chemically you've changed. You know chemically your brain has changed.
Speaker 2:So I think that's one of the hardest parts is when people get down to that left little bit and then it's so hard, or or they skip over the last little bit because it's been so easy, and then they're like I'm just going to get to the end and then the wheels fall off, and that is such a.
Speaker 3:It's such a hard place to be because at that time when you're tapering, you know the drug's not good for you, you know it has side effects, you know it and you just want to be off of it so badly?
Speaker 3:You want to be done, but at the same time, if you rush it, it can backfire. So that is one of the biggest difficulties of this process. You want to rush it, but you know. But you have to slow down and just trust and, again, just like bringing that compassion one more time to this process. Then, once you're off, realizing that you still have ways to go, you still are left with symptoms.
Speaker 3:There's something that happens in your mind, which is very common, which is I'm never going to heal, I am permanently damaged. I did this to myself, right, and that's when we start to, instead of taking responsibility, we're taking guilt for that. Talk a little bit more about guilt versus response. It's very common to think that you'll be like that forever. There is no hope and, um, and how can you continue without hope? Right, and I did. I continued without hope, and I want to say again that it's possible to move through this, even if you have no hope of getting better.
Speaker 3:What moved me, moved me through that? Um, I have no idea. I was, I was doing things and I was moving through my life. I don't know if it was survival instinct, if it was the hand of god, what it was that got me waking up, and. But I know that I was completely hopeless and thinking that I was damaged, um, and and I remember thinking like I will know when I'm healed, when I feel joy again, that's when I know I'm, when I'll you know, I'll be healed, um, and I thought that you know, one day I wake up and I will feel joy. I'm going to look at the sunset and I'm going to feel joy and I'm going to and that's that is my cue, right Day after day, waking up and not waiting.
Speaker 3:Not at that stage, where is the joy? And I'm like, okay, I'm not healed. A year, two years went by, okay, I'm not healed, and um, and then, and then I started noticing little things. Little things, tiny, so, so small. For example, I would go to these hot springs and when I came back from like a two hour like there was a river next to it and I would go hot and cold when I was back from like a two hour soak session, I would feel something. It was almost like this, like this just a little relaxed, a little bit of you know, just just, I don't know ease and I'm like, oh my gosh, this is something, this is something. So I kept going to that place to just feel that little something. You noticed it that?
Speaker 2:was the biggest part. I noticed, you noticed.
Speaker 3:Exactly Like attuned to you Cause what we want to you want the big shift right.
Speaker 2:We want to wake up and like ta-da, like I am in the musical we all want the lottery.
Speaker 3:You know we want to win the lottery. Yeah, we do. It was that parasite. Cleanse that. I did right, Like you just want to wake up like that.
Speaker 3:That was it Yep, that was it, and um, but it was tiny and it was, you know, and every so. So, yeah, tuning into the small moments, not letting them go by the glimmers, and and I'm going to keep doing that. And then one time I got excited about um. I saw a dance class that got me excited and again, following the excitement, even if it's small, what's your interest? Do not overlook that in that stage, Cause you need this.
Speaker 3:I'm like I went to that dance class and I was depressed the whole time, thinking it was horrible, not good, as everyone else. But at the end everyone clapped and we cheered each other on and I felt a little thing and I'm like, oh my gosh, that's a little thing. I feel a little confidence, oh my gosh. So I kept going back to that dance class and I kept going back to the hot springs and I kept going to my friends who made me feel safe, talking to my sister and my family who made me feel safe, and I intentionally started to pursue, like reteaching my brain, how to access joy.
Speaker 3:And, sure enough, the little times of joy, they started to get bigger and bigger and bigger and I learned other ways to access it. You know, I realized that I love retreats. Even if I go there and I'm completely depressed, but just having like, like something set out for me. You eat, you go to yoga, you meditate, you journal, whatever it is something about that creating connection. It would give me something at the end that I'm like oh, there's just renewed hope for something. And that became really very much. Part of my process was intentionally seeking joy, teaching myself how to access that again.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Instead of stopping yourself from like well, I don't feel joy here, so I'm just not going to go. You're like no, I need to go. I need to create that neuro connection again, Like I need to feel that spark over and over again, how small it is.
Speaker 1:And I wonder too like, that is a great like. What you just described to me is so much better of a fluent way of saying this, because I can't describe it in this way at all. But this is what cultivating joy is. Yes, like, to me, that is the definition of the cultivation of it. Um cause, sometimes it'll be there and sometimes it's, it's not, but but you, the glimmer is there, you follow the glimmer, you follow the excitement, even if it's just the tiniest little thing. But that's, you have to nurture that, though it's not gonna fall in your fucking lap, like it's not gonna just fall there.
Speaker 2:So that's, that's the cultivation of it and then following it out during a time when you're not wanting to seek any of that out exactly, especially if it was something that you used to like and now you don't anymore.
Speaker 3:Right, that was the hardest thing. And again, bringing this message to people that you're going through a process of death and rebirth. You are getting to meet yourself all over again. Emily, previous withdrawal was a long distance hiker.
Speaker 1:So you yes.
Speaker 3:Yes, I don't hike anymore.
Speaker 1:You did a post on this. You did a post on this and having to say goodbye to that person Like that is not. They're there, back there, but they're not there anymore. Like if you think you can be that person that's not going to help you, right? I mean like that's, you're just not anymore.
Speaker 2:That's interesting too, because I I think this a lot. If only I were like, I was back then you know if only I was the same person as I was. If only if it was like it was back then. But it'll. It'll never be like it was back then, and how false?
Speaker 1:how false that is, yeah, and how false that is right, yeah, it can be better, yeah, and that's.
Speaker 3:And people tell me, like, am I going to be the same as I was? And I'm no, like no, it's going to be better, right, it's going to be more connected. It's going to bring back to yourself again. Now, I don't wish that on anybody. There's ways, you know. You can get connected by other ways, but for us who are in this journey, after a while, this, you know, this lesson can come, and don't try to find this lesson while you're going through it. Right, like this is, it can be incredibly bypassing all the hardships that are going. So I never ask for people to have perspective when you're in the midst of it, you're in the midst of it. But that's exactly what happened to me at that, at that time.
Speaker 3:And and yeah, so, like before I yes, I was a long distance hiker. I had this, the neural pathways that could walk for miles and be okay. I also, you know, used to drink, I used to overwork, I was a people pleaser, I was hyper independent in my relationships, right, and as I was going through the withdrawal process, my ability to walk long distance, it went away and it never returned. And but the dancer, emily, the yoga yogi, emily, the Emily that you know sits in meditation and loves to connect with people you know through the heart. That person was born as a result of this and I need to give space for her to be in me, this new self of who I am, someone that puts boundaries, someone that wants you know be in my feminine, in the relationship. So I needed to open space for her to be born, and there's a lot of grief and a lot of mystery in this process and it's really hard because of that too. But uh, he now took me to a jungle home where you know I make my own hours.
Speaker 1:I was reading, I was reading your stuff and I'm like I wish I could just move back with my parents. Oh, that would be so nice. Talk about how freeing I don't know. I would love to just slow the fuck down.
Speaker 2:I wish I could see my clients in the jungle of Brazil in a mosquito tent. That would be so sweet.
Speaker 1:This is such a good, so sweet. Yeah, this is such a good. It's just very, it's very inspiring, because it also tells me that it's not just about a dose reduction, it is about a fucking lifestyle overhaul.
Speaker 2:It's about life. We're just going to put it there.
Speaker 1:You've got to change it all, and you touched on something, and there's a question that I selfishly want to ask you about, because I know that you have a niche for this and a passion for it. Okay, and so I'm going to flip topics a little bit here, but can you talk to us a little bit about what you are still experiencing now, even within the idea of how important gut health is and how that, how you believe that has helped transform all of this for you too?
Speaker 3:Oh, absolutely so. Gut health was the foundational first is where I started. It was the first thing that opened up, you know, all of this for me and, um, and I started by overhauling my entire diet. I ate a highly processed diet, I ate sugar, I drank lots of caffeine, I drank alcohol, um, and it was just, you know, I was just not giving myself half a chance to get better and once I looked at that, that was one of the most impactful things that I could have done for my health was to again. I, I've, I've done it all I've done.
Speaker 3:Uh, paleo, ai, aip, carnivore, vegetarian, vegan. I live in this community is vegetarian where I am. So when I'm here, I am in a state of vegetarianism, so I go through. But all these different extremes and I'm okay and I and I have vitality.
Speaker 3:So, however it looks like for you one, you know dietary label or another, just make sure it's whole food base, that you're getting quality food, that you're cooking your food, that you know you are not eating, you know processed food and that, um, you are again giving yourself a chance to reconnect with yourself. That means laying off the mind altering substance a little bit. Is it the alcohol? Is it the caffeine? Is it sometimes the weed? Um, like, give yourself to meet, to meet yourself, give yourself the chance to meet yourself at this stage and from there, you see that, like, people ask me now, like what is my diet? And I'm like, I'm so flexible because my body can handle that flexibility, because of all of the you know, the, the, the work that I've done in just feeding it.
Speaker 3:I like to put it foods that love me back, you know, because we put good or bad foods right, like foods that you love, that love you back, finding this path of connection through food as well, understanding that it's. You know how you eat your food, with mindfulness, with presence, where it comes from. It matters where it comes from, it matters. How you cook it, it matters, right, so it's all related to your gut health and we don't have to be so focused on it, like, so perfectionist. It's better to eat a perfect something than a perfect nothing. Right, you have to nourish yourself, but just leave it as a lifestyle to eat foods and other things, even if it's information, quality time with people, things that love you back.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I really enjoy that Because, as you were talking, people are like what is your diet? What diet? Yeah, I do, and give me the shopping list and tell me what to eat and when to eat it.
Speaker 2:And I will do that Again, that outsourcing of everything. I do believe that people innately know that what they're fueling their body with is either good or not so good. I do believe people know that knowing and acting within are two different things. Right, so they know that drinking alcohol before bed every night is probably not a good thing for them, but yet they still do it. Right evaluation you know what is it that fuels the goodness within me and what doesn't serve me at all, especially when you're going through psychiatric medication withdrawal. And I wanted to add one more thing too, because she just described like a beginning, a middle and an end of your psych med taper. And it doesn't look like the beginning is starting the taper and the end is the end of the taper. And I do feel like so many people go into psych med tapers and you'll see this in Facebook groups and things like that with. Well, I just want to start now and then I want to be done.
Speaker 2:And they go into it with that, that it's just about the taper, because it's just been about the prescription for so long. Again, give me this and I'll feel better. Give me this and then, when I'm done, I just want to do it. I want to do it and be done, but realizing that you are somebody new, that you need to learn who that person is. When this is over, and I do remember, because I'm listening and I'm reflecting back and you know, after my own six year journey, I remember a state of feeling disconnected after that, still numb for a while, like is this really it?
Speaker 2:Like is this really what's going to happen to me, you know, and I do remember that phase too, because it felt like it went on for quite a while too. Because it felt like it went on for quite a while, um, and it wasn't until I, like, came out of my cocoon, you know, um, to learn something new and to keep moving and growing, and things like that um. But I also believe that the study of happiness was a huge factor in my growth. As I'm putting this, as I'm connecting the dots later right, like it, an, it was a natural thing for me because I was told that I was not a very positive, upbeat human and then I took that as a and this was right.
Speaker 2:After, like this, the psych med tapers were happening, like I was done, and then I was in that weird fugue for a while and then I was told that thing and it was all kind of in retrospect, very validating, you know, to look into then happiness, life satisfaction, you know all those things which I was, I guess, out of the fugue enough to be curious about it. You know, like I was not in a space before that to be able to even access that idea. You know I'm so when people end their tapers like you're not in a space to access a lot of ideas. Idea, you know. I'm so when people end their tapers like you're not in a space to access a lot of ideas.
Speaker 2:So you know, grab the brass ring when it comes by, you know like just kind of open it up and do it anyway, right, like do the fun thing anyway. Even if you don't want to do it, do it anyway. Yeah, you've got to get those reconnections going. So a psych med taper is really not about the taper. Ultimately, it's not about tapering a psych med.
Speaker 1:It's about finding yourself.
Speaker 3:Yes, absolutely, absolutely, and it's about dealing with the things that you haven't dealt with while you're on the medication.
Speaker 2:Right, or the reason why you got on the medication in the first place.
Speaker 3:So here I was sitting with all this toxicity, sitting with all this trauma. It's all coming back it. The taper has this, you know, withdrawal has this the power of bringing everything that you haven't dealt with now for you to face. And now you have no option If you want to continue with the taper, you have no option other than to face it. And that's when I understand, understood that I was, you know, taking a really big look at my lifestyle choices, how I was eating, exercising, but, you know, going to the sauna, detoxing. But at one point it became really robotic, like a to-do list, like I just need to do all these things in order to feel well. And I was not bringing into consideration again the joy, but also the nervous system regulation, understanding that I was in functional freeze for probably the majority of my life and a more conscious feeling of my emotions, be able to tap in consciously into my sadness, fear, anger and joy. Because first I was numbed during that process. I was, all you know, really all over the place during the taper and then again numbed after I was done with the medication. So, finding in that and that's when I thought that I found out that everything clicked like okay, it is what you do with your body physically, but are you looking at your nervous system? Are you looking at feeling your emotions consciously?
Speaker 3:And I shifted my the way I worked with my clients, cause I was strictly a health coach right, let's talk about your diet, supplements, exercise, mindfulness, et cetera, et cetera.
Speaker 3:But as I kept doing my own inner work of nervous system and conscious feeling, I started to see my clients hitting a wall. They're like I want to eat better, but what if you can't get out of bed? I want to eat better or exercise, but what if you're in functional freezing just scrolling for hours? Right, there's a component of the nervous system and the emotions that you need to address, because otherwise people just feel like a failure, that they just can't do it. So I shifted my approach to include that, to include nervous system work, to include, you know, conscious feeling work, and that can look like finding safety in your body and, once we establish that safety, really letting out and expressing feelings in ways that sometimes feel weird and look weird, right, like screaming, stomping and just throwing a fit or crying uncontrollably or shaking in fear, but teaching yourself that you can go to these places and be okay, and actually going to these places is helping you feel all of this stuck, you know, emotion that you had maybe for an entire lifetime.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Interesting it's really interesting stuff. I yeah, I appreciate this conversation a lot and I and I know we have a lot of listeners that are going to appreciate this.
Speaker 1:I could just listen to you talk for hours.
Speaker 2:I'm sitting here like I know.
Speaker 1:I'm just like I know I should be coming up with like really actively, like thinking of what I want to ask her, but I'm just too busy falling in a meditating zone right now. You know what I'm quiet in an episode. It's like I'm really in a space of like yep, I'm there with you and I'm not really. I'm not being a host anymore.
Speaker 2:So she's being a listener.
Speaker 3:I love that. Thank you.
Speaker 2:If there's any final thoughts that you would like for people to know, what would they be?
Speaker 3:There is hope. I know you might be thinking that you're going to be there forever, that you ruined your brain or that you're the worst case out there that you know're alive. There is a chance for healing, and I just ask you to give yourself the chance to see yourself on the other side, being in this path and myself, and working with hundreds of people that have been on this path and I used to interview survivors as well of people that have been on this path, and I used to interview survivors as well and, um, I don't believe there's there's anyone out there that there isn't hope for them. I, I, I really do think that there is hope for everyone and there's not one thing that is permanent, um, so I just want to to leave it with that.
Speaker 3:It can be hard and it can be. It can be long lasting hard and it can be. It can be long lasting. Right, it take a long time for you to develop the new pathways or heal that, um, but by no means is is forever. So I just want yeah, I just want to leave people with this.
Speaker 2:Thank you so much for that inspiring message of hope and, uh, it was very heartfelt and I felt that. So, yes, and if you've hung out with us for this long, please like, follow, share, comment, subscribe, do all the things and only five-star reviews. Remember only five-star reviews. And if you want to get in touch with Emily, all of her information will be in our show notes and she'll be tagged on our Instagrams as well. And that wraps up another episode of the Gaslit Truth Podcast.
Speaker 1:Thanks everybody.
Speaker 3:Thank you.
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