The Gaslit Truth

Hit Your Pain Threshold Plus One More Step with Jason Smith, Speaker, Coach, Antares Society Founder

• Dr. Teralyn & Therapist Jenn • Season 2 • Episode 56

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Join us on an insightful journey with Jason Smith, the dynamic coach, speaker, and founder of the Enterus Society, as we unravel the intricate tapestry of mental health and personal development. This episode promises to challenge the ordinary by questioning conventional narratives and pushing us to transcend self-imposed limitations. Jason, with his unique perspective, prompts us to reconsider the familiar and explore the transformative power of perspective shifts, particularly in the context of reclaiming mental health as outlined in our book "Your Best Brain."

Our conversation ventures into the often-overlooked realm of gender disparities in medical treatment, underscoring the personal battles faced in healthcare settings. From navigating neck and shoulder injuries to the broader implications of public health narratives post-COVID-19 vaccine, we dissect personal experiences that highlight the challenges of advocating for one's health needs. The emotional and psychological toll of working in trauma-heavy environments is also a focal point, with a narrative that transitions from high-stress settings to the introspective world of private practice, illuminating the path to personal well-being and optimal health.

Deepening the discussion, we scrutinize the complexities of relationships through the lens of gender expectations, authenticity, and societal narratives. We explore the contrasted dynamics of masculine and feminine energy, revealing how perceived traits can impact relationship satisfaction. From unraveling stories of trauma to exploring the role of humor as a coping mechanism, this episode is a heartfelt examination of the intersections between personal growth, health, and relationships, offering a roadmap for those seeking to embrace authenticity and foster deeper, more meaningful connections.

The Gaslit Truth Podcast will be live and in person at the Feed the Recovering Brain Conference in Dublin, Ohio

Join us with the top names in brain health, including Christina Veselak, Hyla Cass, and Julia Ross, author of The Mood Cure.

We’ll be bringing you interviews and behind-the-scenes content as we explore how nutrition transforms mental wellness.


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Dr. Teralyn:

Therapist Jenn:





Speaker 1:

Hey, everyone is not getting curious and staying in the propaganda, gaslighting you it might be. I'm therapist Jen here with my co-host, Dr Tara Lynn, and you are listening to the Gaslit Truth Podcast.

Speaker 2:

Here we are. Well, this leads me into my new book, right your.

Speaker 3:

Best Brain.

Speaker 2:

Wait what? Because this book was born out of curiosity, really. So I think it's fitting to throw it in here before this episode begins.

Speaker 1:

So perfect for next to your nightstand. Everybody, just so you know, it's just long enough that you won't lose interest. It's a good, but wait, where can people find your book, Terry?

Speaker 2:

You can find it on Amazon or if you're on my social media. Link in bio, we'll do that right. Link in bio, all right. So if you have, and if you have a copy already, because I know a lot of you have already purchased the book, please, you know what jen and I say five stars only, go to amazon. Five stars only give me. Give me five stars on my book. Everybody needs to have this book rate that shit.

Speaker 1:

But wait. If you buy now, within the next hour, you're gonna get a book delivered to your home there you go, go, that's it, but wait, there's more. Okay. Is there a free knife or something involved in this?

Speaker 2:

No, there's a podcast episode guest who's waiting in the wings for us. That's what you're going to get on this episode now. So we have a special guest that I'm going to go ahead and bring in now. And I say this is a special guest because it was literally one year ago this week that Jen and I were on his podcast, and it was the very first podcast that we appeared on together. So I am super excited to have our guest join us, right now, and look at us now.

Speaker 1:

We're still doing this. He's coming back on. Yes. It's a big day.

Speaker 2:

He was our biggest fan in the beginning, so I don't know if he still is or not, but you've been so supportive. So, everybody, please welcome Jason Smith to the show. And Jason Smith is a coach, speaker and founder of the I'm going to get this pronounced wrong Enterus yeah, that's right. Okay, and you're going to tell me what that means Enterus Society, a high impact coaching program designed to help men and women yeah, that's right. And response management from the University of Chicago, jason, brings a no-nonsense, results-driven approach to personal development Through the Blueprint podcast y'all need to listen and his widely followed content on social media Super Funny. Jason challenges the traditional narratives around growth and transformation, helping people cut through the noise, identify their patterns and take back control of their lives. His coaching is designed for those at a crossroads, whether in relationships, career or personal evolution, providing the structure, strategy and accountability needed to create real, lasting change. Please welcome our friend, jason Smith, to the show.

Speaker 3:

Thank you for having me. So you mean I'm not getting a ShamWow after all this?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I know. If you want a sham, wow right.

Speaker 1:

All I'm gonna say is that book better show up on that shelf behind your melon there, jason otherwise we're gonna be having one more plug for the book.

Speaker 2:

There it is. There's the I I gotta say.

Speaker 1:

The coolest thing, though, is so for everybody who follows jason or maybe doesn't follow jason okay, mr j Jaybird Fit does not get interviewed very often. I do not this is the second podcast you've been on baby Second.

Speaker 3:

It's the second.

Speaker 2:

That's it. It's the second, and how many people have you interviewed?

Speaker 3:

Oh gosh, I think we're at 97 at this point.

Speaker 2:

So almost 100 people he's interviewed and only sorry, you scared.

Speaker 3:

Well.

Speaker 3:

So there's a little bit of that, right.

Speaker 3:

A lot of people that I interview are often therapists and people that push back against the system, and I think that's why we all get along so well, especially with your book, your Best Brain Reclaim your mental health.

Speaker 3:

I think that's a huge piece of the puzzle that's missing for a lot of people, because we tend to like offload onto the therapy world or the DSM five and, you know, say this is my world, this is my life, this is who I am and this is how it is, and we pack ourselves up in this nice little box and then we never let ourselves out, so we never really become who we're capable of becoming, and that leaves you in this mental prison for your entire life, feeling frustrated with the life that you're actually living, and so it's a lot more complicated than all of that, but I, you know, I think that's why we get along so well. And, um, you know, it's been interesting being able to connect with all these different people who are disruptors in the area of mental health, because it gives people hope, and if you dive into my comment section, you'll see the hope that's in there and that you're shifting my perspective. You're changing the way that I'm thinking. I'm seeing myself just a little bit different sea of social media BS that's out there.

Speaker 2:

There's a lot of keeping people right where they are, in my opinion, like the doom and gloom of your mental health, the doom and gloom of your relationships is present in social media, so it is really hard to get your voice heard at all, right, so that is a difficult thing to do, jen and I, you know, I don't I wouldn't say struggle with that, but it feels like this tiny little voice over here going.

Speaker 3:

Hey, you can do it if you're willing to pay for promotion.

Speaker 3:

Oh sure I know a lot of people that are doing it. That's another interesting piece about the social media aspect of this, where you know you can call it cheating, you can call it whatever you want. If you have the money to pay to promote, then people gain access to your material because it gets pushed out more and it would be nice if some of the smaller voices that are just starting out that have a really impactful message to get out there, like the Gaslit Truth, if that got pushed out even more every once in a while, just so people could get exposed to it.

Speaker 1:

So we're talking syndication, sponsorships, oprah, please, everybody, you know, I mean who's bigger than Oprah, right, I mean?

Speaker 3:

that's the whole point of doing this is that you know we network with each other and we make each other better, and in the process we share our stories with one another and people will latch on to that. Eventually they'll get sick and tired of the stuff that's being pumped out and then they'll start searching for this type of stuff, and I think they're doing that now. Yeah.

Speaker 2:

I do think that the time is right and I think timing is everything. My message has been the same for a decade, but I don't know that a decade ago people were willing to hear it. So I think when Jen and I started this podcast, it was really good timing. You know, things in the world were changing. Um well, I think you know the pandemic had just happened. So there was a whole group of people that were still pretty upset, you know, and wanting to change the narrative. So I I think that did help people, um, think differently, uh, one way or the other other. So I think that that change of time five years ago was a precipitating factor of minds opening up just a little bit and they got mad. People were very mad and I think sometimes, in order to get curious, you have to have a big emotion first like a big revelation.

Speaker 2:

first, Sometimes and then yeah, you get mad and then you get curious, right?

Speaker 3:

Or you just stay mad. I call that hitting your pain. Threshold plus one more step.

Speaker 2:

Plus one.

Speaker 3:

It always has to be the plus one, because we're so good at sitting in what's familiar and we just marinate in that and it feels so good, even though it doesn't like you know we often talk about. You know that you know wanting safety, creating safety, and what you think is safe is just what's familiar and it feels safe to you, but it might not be safe from that third party perspective actually looking in. So you always have to hit that one more step past your pain threshold and even doing this podcast for me, right, it's that one more step right, I think he's talking about us this whole time.

Speaker 3:

But it's a part of the again. It's a part of that growth process where I recognize where I'm at in terms of the podcast and what I'm capable of doing. And now is that place where I'm starting to stretch, to create that emotional capacity within for the uncertainty of well, you don't know what people are going to say and you don't know what people are going to ask you and you don't know how you're going to show up. Is it going to come off as respectable? Do you look like you're talented and informed or do you end up just looking like a fool? And I think so many of us fear that rejection ultimately. And I think so many of us fear that rejection ultimately. And that's why so many people don't tell their stories to begin with or they limit how much they actually put out there, which is what I do, right. I limit what people can know about me for a lot of different reasons.

Speaker 1:

Yeah Well, why don't you give our listeners a little backstory here?

Speaker 1:

okay, you've been through quite a journey, he, I'm going to leave these questions super vague and open-ended so you can answer how the hell you want. But before we get talking about the enter a society because we have to talk about that let's go back just a little bit. You have quite the health journey that is happening in your life, and why don't you go back a little bit and just explain what that is for you? Because, in the spirit of what our discussion is today is about getting curious and not staying in all of the BS, propaganda or just what information is given to you at face value. You extended beyond that to try to figure out what's going on with your health, and so what do you want to share about that?

Speaker 3:

Well, we'll start with this that everybody says after 40, oh, it's just downhill, and we've kind of accepted that statement as fact. For many of us, the thing is we have more information and access to information than we've ever had in our lifetime. So you can take and cherry pick and use that information however you see fit to benefit you. So this old idea that once you hit 40, it has to be all downhill, I don't believe in that. I think you can dive in and mitigate and almost prevent a lot of things from happening, or at least I used to believe that up until a certain point. So a few years ago I ended up getting injured and had a neck injury, shoulder injury. Shoulder surgery went great, healed beautifully. Neck injury did not, and in that process there was.

Speaker 3:

We're trying to figure out what's happening. Why do I have all these trigger points in my back? Why are things not operating the way they should? Why am I getting all of these headaches? Why does it feel like the left side of my head is being pulled over this way?

Speaker 3:

And you go through physical therapy and you do all the things and you do what you're supposed to do. I've got a beautiful home gym that I use every day and I love it. You've seen me go on my walks with my rucksack, you know, because you know that builds that posterior chain and you feel really strong after a seven mile walk. And doing that, you do it, do these things consistently over long periods of time and it's that habit in your life that you're doing. And as we look back at this, is my ADHD brain right? We're going to jump around, guys.

Speaker 3:

So then we go back to 2019, when things really changed for everybody, and when I was at the department, everybody got sick in November and didn't know what it was. Didn't know what was going on, but it was just people were dropping like flies. They're like oh no, it's RSV, oh no, it's this, oh no, it's that Everybody's kids are sick. And then, of course, we run into January, january 2020, and everybody knows what happens with that. So you fast forward to this place where you start looking at you know, is the vaccine I don't know if we can say that OK for us to take. Have we hit that point?

Speaker 1:

You could say that you could say whatever you want.

Speaker 3:

Well, I don't know that YouTube allows it, so you might have to bleep it for youtube.

Speaker 2:

but yeah, no, no, I went up because it's just saying it goes like because I don't know if we can say it, and then our connection was all sketchy and I'm like, apparently, not apparently they're watching, they're listening. Yes, not that V Jason.

Speaker 1:

Not that.

Speaker 2:

V the shot we call it the shot.

Speaker 3:

And at the time I was in the midst of my master's degree, which was basically a homeland security degree. So threat and response management, all things natural disaster and man-made disaster and so we're directly linked yeah, we're directly linked with FEMA. You know it runs the gambit of cybersecurity all the way to trauma in disaster and what that looks like and how to navigate it from an incident command standpoint. And so you're bought into this process and you still have this belief from you know pre-2020, that you know the government is on your side, they're looking out for you, they take care of you, they keep us safe. And you know, as the time began to go on, you started to realize some of these other patterns that were in there.

Speaker 3:

And so you know I ended up taking the jab because of what other family members were going through, plus the type of job that I had being out in the community at all different levels dealing with. You know, just imagine the some of the dirtiest things you can ever imagine. And you know your hands are in that and you're constantly going back and forth. So from that standpoint you're just like, okay, well, I don't want to be the person that that puts, you know, that kills my family Right, and of course, at the time, all the messaging and all the propaganda was you know this is a pandemic of the unvaccinated right.

Speaker 3:

So you, you start to take this ownership and responsibility. Plus, you're already tied into what the government is doing because that's a part of of what you're interested. It's part of your degree and what you're going through at the time. So then I get injured right and we move forward. Three days after my surgery, my eye swelled up to double the size and I'll send you guys the picture not to be put on the internet but just so you can see it.

Speaker 3:

Because it was all down my face and around my eye and just an interesting experience. And they're like take a Benadryl, you'll be fine Without any further. Like you gave me something. Is it an allergy or what else is happening inside my body? Well, through this process, over that one year period, they figured out okay, well, you're B12 deficient severely.

Speaker 3:

So I ended up going on shots for B12. It's like okay, great, I have never had any issues in my life. Right, get hit with a baseball bat in the head, you get some stitches, you break a couple bones, you know you fall off the high bar in gymnastics and you know you twist something. Like things happen. But as far as like autoimmune or any other issues, zero. All of a sudden, after I take the COVID shot, now I'm having issues and it just like it didn't, doesn't compute. It was february 21, get the shot december. Uh, have the surgery. And then the fuckery started from there.

Speaker 3:

Um, so then we fast forward three years because I'm a glutton for punishment and you and you think well, you eat, you take care of yourself, you go to your home gym every day and you walk seven miles with a rucksack. You think that your weight is going to stabilize and you're going to start losing weight. Well, that wasn't happening, okay. Well, what's going on with that? Well, you're just. You know, you're four, you're 46 now. So that's just the way it's going to be. Like things are going to be a little bit more difficult and it's like yeah, I'm not buying it because there's so many other 46 year olds that don't have these issues and they're doing quite well. And I see people at 70, they're doing quite well. So what is it that's going on inside of me that's causing this? And now we fast forward. Um, so we get to that three year mark and I finally decide I'm going to get my testosterone checked. So we do that. 163 is what it comes out as Can.

Speaker 2:

I I want to stop the story for one second because I've got some shit to say let's go, bring it.

Speaker 2:

Because this is all coming from a male perspective, from a female perspective. Do you know how fucking hard it is to go find someone that'll test your hormones? For a woman Like you're like. So I went in and got my testosterone checked. I'm like, as a woman, the pushback, weirdly, that I have gotten to get my hormones checked, like I think it might be hormonal. Well, you know you're in your 50s, me and it probably is. But just deal. Or the idea of losing weight as a woman, I have never heard well, it's because you're in your menopause or in your 40s or whatever it is. There's never been an. This sounds terrible like an excuse for me to not lose weight. Right, it's been like well, eat less, move more. There you go, that's it for you. Never anything more, never taking anything more in. So to me this is a fascinating conversation in the respect of the differences between how men and women are looked at or treated in their doctor's office. It seemed so easy for you to get to the test classroom.

Speaker 3:

Oh, I make it sound easy. It took us three years to get to this point. Because they don't mention it, they don't talk to you about it, oh, so okay.

Speaker 2:

Well, I mean, even when I've mentioned it before, it's been like we don't do that, we have to go see a specialty practitioner to even look at hormone testing.

Speaker 3:

Oftentimes it's a specialty practitioner, so I don't know Everybody should, because quite honestly, your GP is goaling out hormones and they're going based off of like. Did you just go and chat GPT to figure out the best, um, you know, cycling or dosage, for you know the, the average person and I think that's a huge part of what some of my other issues have been since I've been on the testosterone is the fact that the dosage was wrong from the very beginning and that's frustrating yeah, yeah are you off your?

Speaker 1:

are you off your shit box, terry, or you got more here? She's not not.

Speaker 3:

No, I think. I think it's important that you have to learn to advocate for yourself in every regard, because your general practitioners and just doctors in general, they're not going to advocate for you. They have 15 minutes with you, yep, if even, and they're on a schedule and they go through and they're just like yep, yep, yep, yep, yep, you're out, see you.

Speaker 2:

It's the empowered patient part that Jen and I have talked about before, because you don't know, what you.

Speaker 1:

Well, you hate that they hate it when you show up with a book and you point at a book, they really fucking hate that.

Speaker 2:

However, so many people get so and I was in that space of like. Fine, I guess I'm just resolved to. I'm an old woman and this is the way it's going to be for me Right.

Speaker 2:

And so there's this like resolution of okay, well, you know best, until you figure out more things and you find the right places to go and I hate to say it this way, cause I can't stand it you invest in your health, because the majority of the stuff that I've done for my health has been a financial providers anymore because of those experiences of being so disempowered. Yeah, like that Jen and I talk about. Like your personal agency gets taken away or you give it away to other people. So reclaiming that and finding your own path is so important.

Speaker 3:

We need to hone in on that for a second your personal agency and the fact that you have it.

Speaker 3:

You've always had it and you will always have it. You just don't recognize it because you don't exercise it, and we go back to the 2020 era of just how quickly we were willing to give up everything for this perceived sense of safety from the people that are supposed to be securing and keeping us safe right Physically, mentally and emotionally, in the context of whatever was happening in that moment. And, of course, now, as information gets pushed out and it gets leaked out again, we're hitting a lot of pushback from people that have been completely bought into the story, the narrative, the mass delusion, and now they're stuck in it and can't seem to pull themselves out just a little bit, just to even ask the question right, did they do the right thing? Did we do the right thing, and does it have to be right or wrong? I don't think so. I think it's. We did something and now we have to find a way to walk it back and make sure that we get people healthy again.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, you know, it's funny because I was talking to somebody yesterday about religion. It's a hot topic. It is a hot topic About religious trauma and things of that nature. And I said to them I said you know, in many respects the mental health world is like a religion, or a religious cult, if you will, sometimes because we buy into certain things and what I say about your diagnosis is now your truth and you buy into this hook, line and sinker. And how do we get out of this idea that the mental health community and the mental health world is a little bit like a cult? Damn, we should have. Okay, so he just brought out his. Oh, you have the.

Speaker 1:

TR. You bought the.

Speaker 2:

TR. I will not. I will not buy the TR.

Speaker 3:

I can use this to label you, to ruin you, to inception you to get you on medications for the rest of your life that maybe you don't Now. I'm not a doctor, so I can't say these things right as a, as a general human being out in the world, I can't make those statements.

Speaker 2:

Do you know what I think is so weird? I think putting the DSM five on Amazon has been the world's biggest problem for mental health, because everybody has access to it, not just the diagnostics of it, like what it all is, but the language in it. So we have taken this mental health language and weaponized it.

Speaker 1:

I'm so proud of myself. I don't even have mine anywhere near me right now.

Speaker 2:

Yay, jen, she used to sleep next to that thing. Like an emotional support book I did your book is there now, so it's fine oh yay, okay, good, I like that, I like that better. But yes, I think the mental health world is weaponized against people tremendously and that's something that we need to change. And I think, yeah, I don't know, even when you talk about, like you know, I have ADHD or whatever have you ever felt that that's been weaponized against you? Like, do you weaponize it against yourself?

Speaker 3:

I don't, so one. I'll never get officially diagnosed. All my therapist friends and there's a lot of them out there they're just like oh no, that's you and I'm like that's fine.

Speaker 2:

What's the point of the diagnosis?

Speaker 3:

I don't. I don't see it as something that should be a limiting factor in my life. If anything, it's provided me the ability to do a lot of other things and to to multitask.

Speaker 1:

I know multitask, but to do things, multiple things, in the same day, in the same day even when you talk about this, like you said this way early before you started recording, you said adhd, my therapist, they give me the adhd. Uh, they tell me I have that in that I cringe to hear that, like the bold part of me wanted to be like who are these therapist friends you have, because you might want to keep them where they need to go in your space.

Speaker 3:

Well, I think, like everybody else, we joke about it.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, which is good, and if it's a joking matter, you know. But I think it's used so much. Even when you talk about it, the symptoms of it, it's almost like it's presented as I have this label or this is part of something someone's told me, and there's this negative connotation to it and we do that. That's what that book does, that's what the labels. They do for many people and it does. It's a, a weapon, and it's used against people. It's used against them for the rest of their lives. I love that.

Speaker 2:

I'm going to squirrel off on this a little bit, because a big part of your messaging has been around relationships. Attachment is a huge part of his messaging when you? Okay, because I think and this is going to be, I'm just going to say it I think women weaponize mental health for men all the time. Women have this way of wanting to pathologize their partners, their boyfriends, their husbands, because I feel like it's a slippery slope the moment you start reading self-help, wondering if you see that in your practice with relationships, because before I thought you worked mostly with men, but I was reading that you would do women as well, but I think it started off with men, didn't it?

Speaker 3:

No, so it just started off with whoever was interested in the content, which was, at the time, 85% women interested in the content, and so, which was at the time, 85% women, and now that has moved closer to that 50-50 mark in terms of my demographic, which is awesome. I mean, that's what you want right.

Speaker 2:

You want people to be taking in the message.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, and so for me, when I hear those types of statements being made when we're doing our one-on-one coaching, I immediately go to story. What is your story? And so we can author your individual story, which I think is great and it's extremely helpful. You know how were your earliest relationships with caregivers and parents and friends, and the development and cultivating relationships with other people. What did that look like? How did you feel? And we start naming all these different things that you felt in these earliest relationships, and then that becomes kind of the framework of how you developed into this relationship that you're currently in. And then we build the story around that relationship that you've been in, whether it's a marriage or you've been dating for you know a period of time. But you can go back and look at well, how did it start? And you know what. What are the type of words that we use with one another? How do we talk to each other? What phrases do we use? How do we treat each other? Do I feel seen, heard, loved and understood? And it's like so.

Speaker 3:

Then we start diving, we start unraveling all those little things and create the story around that and then we get to the place of now can you see that they're a human being. It's called Sonder right, where everybody has their own difficult way of viewing the world. Everybody is equally as complicated and you're just a piece of their story. You might be a larger piece or a smaller piece or just somebody that passes by in the story itself, but you have to see everybody as their own individual person with their own goals, hopes, dreams and desires. And if you can kind of break away from that solipsism and begin to look at your partner as that sovereign individual, then you see them completely differently. But you also see yourself differently in how you place yourself in the world and around other people. And okay.

Speaker 2:

So that was a lot, I know that, no, no, no Cause, because you know I've told you this before too I come from a family of law enforcement. Jen and I both worked in the prison systems. My come from a family of law enforcement. Jen and I both worked in the prison systems. My father was the chief of police, blah blah blah. My son's going in those directions too. But how did you get from this and maybe it was never like this for you this hyper-masculine space, right? Because being in law enforcement is a very masculine space. I'm not saying that there are not women in there, but I think even women in that space sometimes have to lean into their masculinity, um, during certain times, right? So how did you get from that to wanting to work in a relationship, attachment, emotional, um intelligence, in relationships like? Because to me, unless you've always just been that guy, to me there's like a story in that.

Speaker 3:

There is. It's going to bring the mood down real quick.

Speaker 1:

It's because of the testosterone. We'll get back to that everyone listening. At some point we're going to wrap back to where he was 20 minutes ago.

Speaker 3:

We will, we'll wrap back. It goes back to the pain threshold plus one more step. So cop for eight years, work crime scene for a few years, and it was in crime scene that you begin to see the power of story, the story that we tell ourselves, plus my own third party perspective of the people that I'm interacting with that are now deceased and, for a lot of different reasons, right, and a lot of this unfortunately ended in them not being on the planet anymore through suicide begin to piece together each individual story of these people, their experience, how they navigated their relationships and more often than not it was an interpersonal relationship that had crumbled, that had failed in some way that they no longer felt connected to and they were so deeply attached and you know, you can put all the labels codependency, you know all this stuff but it comes down to they now feel disconnected and detached from this experience with this other person or group of people, and so they tell themselves a story I'm not good enough, I'm not smart enough, I'm not capable, I can't do this, or I've done something so egregious that I'm never going to be forgiven and the world is going to be better off without me on the planet, and so they build this story that they truly believe. Now there's often other things that are going on. There's substance abuse and other experiences that are running in the background. That's how we get to our core beliefs, not only about ourselves, but our place in the world and how we operate in it.

Speaker 3:

And as you distill all of that down, you begin to pick it, you unravel it, you pick it apart Like what are the common denominators, what is happening right now? And you go inward and say, well, but I've experienced that and I've had that feeling and I've gone through that experience myself and I've actually had that thought that I don't want to be here anymore and the only reason that I'm here is because of my dog right. And so you get to that place and you begin to realize that all of these things are impacting you. If you don't have a way to navigate that, to understand it, to break that information down, to have a place to tether yourself to, then you are going to feel lost in the world and you're going to find relationships to be so incredibly difficult to navigate. And that's how we get into the victim mindset and, you know, blaming everything external to us without being willing right To at least take a. You know, just scratch the surface of what's going on inside of us. You know, we hear it all the time.

Speaker 3:

You had mentioned the relationships with men and women. Right, they? It often starts like this they get the book attached by Amir Levine and then they send it to their partner priority mail. You need to read this because you're broken and you need to fix yourself and you're not acting. This, this, this is what you're doing and it's so frustrating for me and you make my life so difficult and it's just like okay, five love languages yes, I was just going to say in the love languages.

Speaker 3:

And those books are great, especially the five love languages, because it starts something right, it begins to open the door to something else, even though it's manipulation.

Speaker 3:

I was just going to say I'm waiting for the manipulation word, but it does open a door because everybody is at a different state of awareness, right? So when you hit a certain point of awareness where you find books like Attached, slow your roll, take a breath Maybe. Don't send it to your partner priority mail just yet. Sit with it for a year, begin to understand it just a little bit more from your own story and perspective before you start For yourself, for yourself, before you start overlapping and overlaying that story and label on other people like you don't know you yet, so how can you possibly know them?

Speaker 3:

and that's a whole other thing of trying to figure out what what other people are thinking and feeling, right yeah, so so for you, there was this, this start, when you were saying the, the, this is, this, is this pain threshold.

Speaker 1:

Now we add the one on right. So the history that you have in working these crime scene investigations, being able to read through the histories of people and, truly like you, you got the most intimate thoughts and and you know.

Speaker 3:

Without getting too deep into the picture. I mean, just imagine any crime scene on TV and you know intimate experience and you take all of that information with you and you're seeing it through a lens. You're seeing it with your eyes, but then you're also seeing it through the camera lens because you're documenting everything at the same time. And then you file that away. It goes in a little Rolodex in the back of your head and you store it and ignore it. Yes, it goes in a little Rolodex in the back of your head and you store it and ignore it and you know that's just how you get through it. And then people you know sometimes you'll laugh about certain things and you see that and people are like how can you do that? That's so callous.

Speaker 2:

And it's like well, no, it's actually trauma response. No, no, no, my comedy is pure trauma. That's what it is.

Speaker 3:

And yes, yes, it's a little dark and no, it's not for you, right? But the people that have been in those experiences and they understand it and they navigate it you.

Speaker 2:

That is a common response to very serious situations you know I'm I'm just as you're talking, I'm just reflecting back to my time in the state and we would read files. It was the police reports that were the most intense for me to read, because all the rest of the stuff is just what they tell you right Versus the police on scene and how they go through what they saw. You know, step by step. Those police reports were probably the most impactful things that I've ever read, because you can read a lot of heinous crimes. Like you know, you read what it is, but until you read the police report, what actually happened or what was happening as they were recounting it, it always made me think about the person writing the report. Like you know, you were involved in this chaos, this, all these moments, these very personal moments for people, and you had to document it and just move on. You know, like, just like it, move on to the next one.

Speaker 3:

You know, yeah, it's. This is the part that's weird for people, right, and it's like so you were just at a crime scene, it's lunchtime, it's 6, 18, that's when I go to lunch and, yep, grab your lunch, go to lunch, and you know, normal people are like how do you, how can you possibly do that? It's lunchtime, what do you mean? Right, you know, file it away, move on.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, you file it away, you move on, and then you know or gosh all the video footage I'd watch during the lunch hour while eating like oh, or you're in a crime, crime scene and you're there for an hour and a half, two hours or more, and then you, immediately after, right after you, clear, you get dispatched to you know a domestic dispute, or you know something, but not something like uh, you know, uh, alcoholic at the bar. You know, you got to, you got to fight, you got to get rid of the people at the bar and say, okay, great, you know, and you haven't even taken the time yet to really process or take in the past two hours and then you're just shifting into this next experience.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, Psychologically you haven't, and physiologically your body hasn't either.

Speaker 3:

Nope, and it never does, because you're working, you know somewhere, eight hour shifts, but then a lot of times you work 10, 12 or 16 hours, depending on the amount of overtime that's available, and people just continuously do that over and over again and it's like, well, then you have court, and then you have family stuff and then there's real life and there's never a time where you actually sit back and go and just let it go right To not have it be stored in your nervous system for the rest of your life. And of course it turns out. How does it turn up? Right, you're going to see people that are overweight and you're going to see them very stressed out. There's going to be substance abuse issues, and I don't think we talk enough about any of those things. We we'd like to make fun of it. Oh, look at that fat cop. Um, yeah, that's called trauma. Folks that like that's, that's what that looks like, that's what it is, um decades decades, and it is decades cause it didn't start out that way, right, but?

Speaker 3:

but you find comfort where, wherever you can get it, and of course, again, we don't have the conversations about the deeper stuff, because it's uncomfortable, you just don't want to do it.

Speaker 1:

So you found a way to shift out a little of that masculine world, as Terry was saying, and now you're in this other world talking with people about the other half of it, the other side of it. What's in those letters, what's in those relationships? Taking deeper looks at yourself versus finishing a task, turning off, starting another task, right, right, you're on the flip side of it now.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, so what's interesting about that is I've talked to other people that are no longer doing the job and they still have the same dreams over and over again. That's ongoing.

Speaker 2:

And so that was kind of reaffirming You're not talking about hopes and dreams, you're talking about trauma.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, I'm talking about trauma dreams being clear.

Speaker 2:

I still have the hopes and dreams.

Speaker 3:

It's just interesting how this stuff pops up. Or you know, you're going through town and you pass, pass a spot, and you didn't ask for it. You're not thinking about it, but it's just like your brain gives it back to you and you're just like oh yeah, I remember that. Thanks, Thanks, brain Didn't need to remember that. Yeah, no, thank you, yeah.

Speaker 2:

You know what was really fucked up. This just makes me think about time in the prison, and I don't know, Jen, if you remember this or not, but there was a time where because this is where I learned how to do trauma treatment was working in the prison systems and there was a big debate about working on trauma, the trauma of the crime itself, Do you?

Speaker 1:

remember this, jen, I do remember.

Speaker 2:

Like helping the perpetrator process the trauma of what they did to somebody else to relieve their trauma.

Speaker 1:

And how we were told to not do that.

Speaker 2:

No, we were told to do that.

Speaker 1:

Oh well, that shifted over time. There was another shift after you left, terry.

Speaker 2:

That was the debate. Is that, should we be processing trauma of someone who committed the crime versus processing the trauma of the victim? Right yeah, so that was the whole. I remember this as a debate in the EMDR world and I remember thinking that's messed up.

Speaker 1:

It's a huge debate in the sex offender world too.

Speaker 2:

That's messed up. It's a huge debate in the sex offender world too. Oh yeah, I would imagine, Because you're reliving reenacting yeah that could get really weird.

Speaker 2:

But yes, Some of the things that we had to do were just so messed up, Because I'm like I can see it both ways. If this person's ever going to get out, I'd want to process trauma. But do I want to process that trauma? I'm not helping the victim or their families at all by now victimizing the person who did the crime or making them the victim of their own crime, essentially like what they did. I don't know. I don't know if I'm making any sense, but how traumatic it can be for the person that committed it, because you don't come out of those things unscathed.

Speaker 1:

nor did you do those things because there isn't a reason that you did those things Like there's a history hurt people, hurt people, right, so it's there, but whether or not we could touch it, especially in the SOT world that was the sex offender world, was a whole nother piece. I think that's where my brain was going. But yeah, we were. I mean, think of all the victims that get created by either doing treatment like that or choosing to not do treatment like that.

Speaker 2:

So I think it could go both ways Well and I think about, like, as a therapist, walking through again, walking through someone's trauma or their story is traumatic anyway Just getting all of that information. You guys see it, we were reading about it and processing it with people and then going to lunch, and then going to lunch or trying to live our lives. And I remember the I knew my time was coming to an end when I was having these very visual, like almost hypnagogic dreams Like they. I was like half awake, half asleep and I would envision some of these inmates in my closet and I would wake up in this panic and they would be in the closet doing things in the closet and I was like I knew at that point that it was not good for me. You know, um, so, and did you?

Speaker 3:

find yourself actually envisioning what it was that they did during the process of helping them navigate.

Speaker 2:

No, so, weirdly, a lot of the people that, uh, that Jen and I had worked with in this one particular institution did a lot of self-injurious things to themselves while they were there. Lots of bloody things would happen. It was always that it was always the thing that I saw or got a chance to witness in some way while I was actually working there. So it was really never like what they had done to get there. It was always what they did to themselves when they were there. Yeah, so that was the yeah.

Speaker 2:

As we're rolling through, I'm like, oh God, this feels like regurgitation of trauma to me, but anyway, that was a big turning point for me because I was losing sleep and waking up in a panic and those types of things. But then, just moving on, sometimes it's not until you do the look back, you know, like when you're looking back into the world and you're like, wow, that was really fucked up, that really impacted me greatly and I didn't recognize it in the time. Yeah, so anyway, so then we just go into private practice and we keep, you know, talking about people's trauma over and over again, you know, like what the fuck am I doing?

Speaker 1:

Are you recontemplating your whole life?

Speaker 2:

I mean, I was recontemplating my entire life at this point in time. So I can totally see why Jason would want to not do that and would rather work with relationships Like. That feels right to me.

Speaker 1:

So wrap this back, Jason. So you were able to get out of that space, start a new space which is your true, your coaching program that you do. There was some health things in the background that were still going on with you that you're still trying to figure out, because I'll be damned if we don't get back to testosterone at some point in this hour that we're talking.

Speaker 3:

I mean, we're going to do it right now.

Speaker 1:

So what happened then for you after this, where you were at in that story?

Speaker 3:

Yeah. So we figured out that testosterone was low, at 163 nanograms a deciliter, and then we got it up to a thousand three, and once we got it up to a thousand three, that's a significant difference in your body. What is the?

Speaker 2:

man's your age. What do they tell you?

Speaker 3:

that it should be what's optimal well, if you go by, uh, the medical journals um I think I'm going by the functional medicine I want to know what tgp says yeah, I think they put it at like 300, which is very interesting because that's extremely low, yes, but the average would be that 500 to 800. 800 being optimal is where most people would want to be. I'm at 700 currently and that feels really good. The problem is I've been on the HCG and that caused a lot of swelling, uh in my body and the hcg uh is used. It will also raise testosterone, but it's used to also protect your fertility. If you still want to have kids, or, um, if you want to have a normal, you know, um yeah I got all the questions.

Speaker 2:

You need to go to YouTube right now?

Speaker 3:

Because just the testosterone? Do we need a visual? No, because just the testosterone would stop you from potentially being able to have kids.

Speaker 2:

I didn't know that that's interesting. I had no idea about that.

Speaker 3:

Is it guaranteed? No, nothing's guaranteed. They always say that, and then people that are on testosterone have kids all the time. So, um, I think that's one of those things that they just put out there as a fair warning that that could happen, and then they get you on hcg right to help protect and maintain that. Uh, the problem's been is I was 184 pounds and then I start. Two weeks later. After I started both of those drugs, I ended up being 198. Um, so that's a significant, significant jump, uh, and a lot of water weight, and of course, that gets carried in my shoulders and my traps. It was in my neck, um, and then got bloated because of that as well, and it's like, holy smokes, man, this is too much, and they're, like you know, five months. It'll normalize, you'll feel better.

Speaker 1:

There it is, yep, stick it through. Yeah, just keep sticking it through. Your body is reacting like crazy.

Speaker 3:

We're at five months and I had my first ocular migraine this week and if you've never had an ocular migraine, I was sitting reading my bible and journaling and it was just a flash of light and then I couldn't see. It was just um, like zigzag lightning with like a prism in the center of it so you could see the outline of the the white lightning and then a prism in the center of it and it just like kept going back and forth through, uh, both eyes so you could cover one and couldn't see it and it was the same. And then anything beyond that that you tried to see beyond that was just like water, like you're looking through water. So that lasted about 45 minutes an hour the first time it happened and about 45 minutes the past two times that that's happened. And again there's no real answers.

Speaker 3:

I went to an ophthalmologist. They're like your eyes are healthy, no reason that would happen. They immediately point to well, it's gotta be stress and it's gotta be some of this other stuff and it's like, yeah, I guess, maybe, maybe, but my neck has been killing me. That's aggravated again and so this trap is like rock hard right now. Um, of course that ties into the back of your head. But then I also had that um lymph node on the back of my head that was swollen as well and had to get this. All sounds so ridiculous, but you know. So two weeks ago that happened and I had to get a ultrasound done on that and they're like yeah, you've got swelling. Yeah, no shit, thanks. Yeah, glad I had to do that to get that answer. Um, any chance you can tell me why this is happening and can we stop it or prevent?

Speaker 1:

it like can you just cause what's going on?

Speaker 3:

can you just maybe hypothesize that it's the hcg that's doing it. Maybe I should stop doing that, like that might be a good answer. I don't know. Um, take some time to think on it and get back to me.

Speaker 1:

That would be great um, take some time to think on it and get back to me.

Speaker 2:

That would be great. Take some time to think. Is that your final answer? Would you like to phone a friend?

Speaker 1:

Would you like to chat GPT this? It's like we laugh, but this is real. None of this is made up. Everybody this is all very reality and I know everyone listening probably has their own stories of going to see providers for things and they're just wanting something anything Like maybe this, maybe this? How about you give me five options so I can get curious about all five instead of well, no, you're stressed out.

Speaker 3:

Well then he followed let's get a CT scan. I'm like, oh sure, I'm sure you want that too. Like, let's get it all done, let's figure it out. So and I'm like, oh sure, I'm sure you want that too Like, let's get it all done, let's figure it out. So I went to chat GPT.

Speaker 1:

I went to my doctor chat.

Speaker 3:

So I plugged everything in. It's got my whole history on this. Now, this is interesting. No, it was. It's a better answer than what.

Speaker 1:

I got from the doctor.

Speaker 2:

Do you?

Speaker 1:

have the paid version to do this. Yeah, I think you got to have pro. You got to have the fucking pro.

Speaker 3:

It's definitely the paid version. You got to get pro Anyway. But it came back with that it's most likely the HCG and that if I stopped then I might find some relief in the swelling. And when that swelling goes down then maybe some of this other stuff will kind of relieve itself. And when that swelling goes down then maybe some of this other stuff will kind of relieve itself. But you know, it could also be aggravated by the nerve in my neck as well.

Speaker 3:

So it's just like so well you have all this swelling, it starts pushing on the nerve, the nerve starts messing with your eyes and that all makes sense. But why do I have to ask chat GPT, when my doctor is making you know, know whatever money he's making off of me on this and it's like you can't give me just a solid like guess something.

Speaker 2:

It isn't liability, I don't know what it is, because couldn't you just look at chat gpt and come into the room? Isn't there a medical version of chat gpt somewhere that you can just plug this stuff in? Like, why is this hard? Why?

Speaker 1:

is. I said that to my I, my poor pharmacist. I said it to my pharmacist like two months ago. I said can you do me a favor? And just when you hand me my medication, can you stop reading the fucking label on it? And he kind of looked at me. I said I can do that. Yep, I actually can do that. Can you tell me something that that isn't written on that little sheet of paper there for you? And just this look on his face like she's a bitch. It's crazy, right? Because here I am every month coming to get my liquid medication and my antidepressant as I'm going down, and he's like, oh, here she comes, because every month I'm like so do you know anything about getting people off meds? I know you know how to give them meds. Of course he can't handle me, but I said could you not read this? You read it to me every month. I can read what's not on here that I don't know. Maybe I should tell him to ask you at GPT I don't know, maybe.

Speaker 1:

That'll really help our relationship. I feel like this would be helpful, right? What do you think, Jason? I feel like this would be helpful right, what do you? Think Jason.

Speaker 3:

Again. It's just so frustrating because I don't want medication to always be the answer for everything. Sometimes it is right, sometimes it is. You've got low testosterone, you've taken the Tonga Dali and the Fidoja Agrestis, you've gone the natural route, trying to get it pumped back up, and it's just not so. That was my next choice. Clearly that it could be environmental. There could be all sorts of other things that are going on in the background. It could be the tea bag right that I'm drinking right now, made of you know some sort of plastic that's in there that's an endocrine disruptor and you know that's tanking my testosterone. Did it have anything to do with the vaccine? Don't know, it's all anecdotal, but I can tell you, before the vaccine I was fucking fine right and and now and now and now I'm not.

Speaker 3:

So if you look at that, it's like now you're seeing prisms.

Speaker 1:

Yeah right, you know I.

Speaker 2:

I constantly go back to what my husband says all the time. Well, you know, you can't get something for nothing and but it's that's my husband says all the time.

Speaker 1:

Well, you know you can't get something for nothing, and but it's, that's what he says all the time he's like not wrong.

Speaker 2:

He's not wrong I mean, he's got the words of wisdom, you know, but? But whenever you have a medication like there's probably going to be some type of outcome that you didn't expect, Are you a hundred percent going to have that outcome? No, but is there a population of people that will yes, and could that be you? Of course it could. So why is it dismissed? You know, because the same thing happens when Jen and I talk about psychiatric medications. You know, you go to the doctor and you're having all these symptoms, right. So now I have a whole host of new symptoms after taking this antidepressant. Could it be the antidepressant? No, you know no, and I'm like why are you so quick to say no, that it couldn't be, when obviously it's the only thing that you changed, and now you're in it for six months to a year or even a week.

Speaker 2:

But the common knowledge about that is just like you give it some time and your body will figure out how to get to homeostasis, even though it's telling you I don't want it, I don't want it, I don't want it, I'm going to make you swell up, I'm going to, yeah, but you're dizzy, you can't sleep, whatever. Give it time and your body will find homeostasis on this thing. Or we could say seems like my body doesn't want this thing, Seems like the dosing is wrong, Seems like something about this isn't right. We give all of that up. When our provider says, no, it's not this, give it time or whatever, we, we suddenly like step away from our body the wisdom that it has. We step away from it all and be like oh, he said it's not, so it's it's not, and I'm like but yet it probably is. You know, I think we are the best doctors for ourselves in many respects, Like we know everybody that's listening. You know your body better than anybody else. You just have to pay attention. You know. You just have to tune in a little bit.

Speaker 2:

When we were talking before about trauma, none of us were tuning into trauma. People that we worked with weren't tuning in because you couldn't. If you suddenly become awake and you're tuning into your trauma where you work, guess what? You probably won't be able to work there anymore because it is too impactful. Now that you know what you know and that's the reasons why I think all three of us kind of had to step away from the traditional jobs that we were in is because suddenly we became awake in some respect and couldn't do it anymore. Right, Like you, you just can't keep doing the thing that you were doing before once you know, um, which is why tying this back into like don't put you know your attachment book on auto ship for your partner, because, first of all, you have to have your own awareness of what's going on before you can even think that you can try to help someone else. So, to me, when somebody is trying to help somebody else, they legit have a lack of awareness for themselves.

Speaker 3:

Well, you need to fix you so I can be happy.

Speaker 2:

Yes.

Speaker 3:

Right.

Speaker 2:

Right, there's something very wrong with toxic masculinity. You know, and I wanted to also mention real quick, because this was on my mind, you know, this idea that I feel like, because I have a son, he's in his early 20s and so he's like he's having such a hard time with relationships and things like this, like just understanding the world from an adult lens, adult-ish lens, because he's not really, you know, whatever. There's such a push for men to be more. This sounds weird to say be more emotional and not act like men, right, like, and I'm like, these are young men with like, full on hardcore testosterone. You know young men with like, full on hardcore testosterone, you know, blazing through their veins and they're supposed to act a different way, act like, act like women want you to act in order to be in a relationship.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, you're shaking your head, yes, so do you have any thoughts about that that you know it might be useful or helpful, because I think it's such a if we want to use the word toxic, which I hate, I think it's such a. For one, I use the word toxic, which I hate. I think it's a toxic way to look at people, that I expect you to be different ways. I've never heard of a man expecting a woman to be more masculine, to bring on more masculine energy. I've never heard that, but I hear women wanting men to bring on more feminine energy all the time.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, it's so interesting because they always say that's what they want and then, when they get that, when they get that, they reject it. It's an. It's an. It's an automatic visceral rejection and they don't know why. Right, and they they'll find that they might even have enough awareness to ask the question like I should want this, why do I not want this?

Speaker 3:

And it's like, well, it's not emotionally charged, it's not triggering the things that leave you feeling excited and and truly connected and you want to feel admired and adored and you know all of these other things. But you're asking for a, you know, basically a girlfriend. And then, and then, when you get that from the man, you're just like it's such an ick, everything's an ick. Now, yeah, they get on TikTok and they make a video and it's like I'm never dating the nonchalant man ever again. And it's just like, okay, but your vetting process just sucks for you. Your picker is broken, it's not good, right, we can look at your vetting process and say, okay, well, what is it that you find attractive? What type of person do you want to be with? And they're complaining about this nonchalant person, which, again, the nonchalant person is somebody that you know they'll seem reserved, they'll seem a little distant, but they still make you feel loved. So they're using that in the wrong way. What they're really talking about is someone who's more avoidant. That, you know, pushes you away. That, you know, goes off in this opposite direction. That doesn't make you feel seen, heard, loved or understood or respected, and and they chase that. That triggers something in them that, ooh, I like that, because they're not giving you exactly what you want. You have to work for it. There's this enigma, it's a mystery. Oh, my goodness, you know, look at this, but I have to solve this. And that's really what triggers people to want to be in a relationship with another person.

Speaker 3:

No-transcript Good for her, well, and it just comes. It comes down to I need you to be more of you, whatever. Whatever more of you looks like, and that's really the message that I put out there, because you mentioned toxic masculinity. It's just masculinity, folks, and you know whatever that is for you. Some men are going to be a little more effeminate. Some men are going to be more, you know, emotionally charged and physical, and that's just who they are as a person. Now, at the end of the day, do they treat you with respect? Do they love you, are they kind, are they humble? There's all these other things that we should be.

People on this episode

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Dr. Teralyn

Co-host
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Jennifer Schmitz

Co-host
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Dr. Teralyn

Guest
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Jason Smith

Guest
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Jennifer Schmitz

Guest