Do Kids Really Belong in a Therapists Office?

The decision to send your child to therapy seems like responsible parenting, but what if that choice follows them long after childhood ends? As licensed therapists ourselves, we're pulling back the curtain on a troubling reality that few professionals discuss openly.

Mental health diagnoses given to children as young as six or seven years old don't simply disappear when therapy ends. These labels become permanent parts of medical records that can affect military applications, government employment, insurance coverage, and more. We share real examples from our practices of young adults facing obstacles because of childhood diagnoses they've long since outgrown.

A revealing study found that over two-thirds of people who received therapy as children reported negative effects from the experience, with many developing increased stress and a sense that their problems would never improve. Perhaps most concerning is how children are routinely placed on psychiatric medications with profound physiological effects that alter their developing nervous systems.

As parents, the pressure to medicate children into compliance can be overwhelming. Schools, doctors, and even family members may insist it's the only solution for behavioral issues or learning differences. We challenge this narrative, offering practical alternatives like working with coaches, paying privately to avoid diagnoses, and exploring holistic approaches before turning to psychiatric interventions.

This isn't about shaming parents who've sought help for their children, but rather providing crucial information that's deliberately withheld from the therapy conversation. Before signing your child up for their first session, consider the potentially lifelong implications of that decision.

The Gaslit Truth Podcast will be live and in person at the Feed the Recovering Brain Conference in Dublin, Ohio

Join us with the top names in brain health, including Christina Veselak, Hyla Cass, and Julia Ross, author of The Mood Cure.

We’ll be bringing you interviews and behind-the-scenes content as we explore how nutrition transforms mental wellness.

Chapters

• 0:42 Whistleblowing Shrinks Introduction
• 1:21 Long-Term Impacts of Childhood Diagnoses
• 6:27 Mental Health Labels Follow Kids for Life
• 10:49 Negative Effects of Childhood Therapy
• 18:07 Medication Pressure and Side Effects
• 31:35 Alternatives and Parental Empowerment
• 41:20 Standing Up Against Shame and Guilt

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:22

Well, hey, everyone, you have been gaslit into believing that sending your children to therapy is actually going to be a helpful thing for them. There is Jenny, you're a Dr. Terri Lynn, we are your whistleblowing shrinks and you are listening to the Gaslit Truth Podcast. Welcome.

Speaker 2: 0:37

Welcome, all right, so this is a controversial topic, yeah let's do it.

Speaker 2: 0:42

For some For some. Yes, controversial topic yeah, let's do it For some for some, yeah. And so we thought about bringing this in because there's a lot of things in real time that are happening this year Well, actually it'd be this year and the end of last year that are just kind of exemplifying this idea that maybe it's not the smartest thing for you to do for the long term of your child. Now, with that in mind, there are some kids that could actually benefit from this, so I'm going to give a little caveat there. But so you want to talk about?

Speaker 1: 1:12

what's happening in real time first. Yeah, let's talk about real time. What we see coming through the doors of our therapy practices, that stems from, basically, people as adults now trying to move forward in their lives, whether it's they want to get a job, whether they're looking to get benefits, whether this is an insurance thing, whether this is I'd like to get into a branch of the military of some sorts and these are young adults. Guys, we're talking about young adults here and the inability for them to be able to do those things because of seeing therapists when they were younger and diagnoses that have been put on them.

Speaker 2: 1:52

Yes. So I'm going to add in another layer too, because you know, my kid just graduated college and he's on the job hunt Right.

Speaker 1: 2:00

So yeah, that's right, you've got another layer to add.

Speaker 2: 2:03

I do because you said me something yes, because it's very interesting going through the process. So he's going through the process for federal government work and there's a whole section in there on your mental health history and it says right in there that they could request all of your files, all of your mental health history, all not just from adulthood but childhood forward. Yes, and even though they say in there, no, no, we're not going to use this against you, blah, blah, blah. But really Are they really not, you know? And I said we were talking and he said I'm so glad that you never medicated me, I'm so glad that, because I'm like this would just be another layer of the background investigation process that he would have to fork over and explain and possibly go to somebody like you to reverse it. You know, because of something that happened when he was eight because of something that happened when he was eight.

Speaker 1: 3:07

Yes, and I think that that's the scary part about this is what I'm experiencing in real time is having to undo via psych testing and doing one hell of a bio-social interview and going all the way back to when you were younger.

Speaker 2: 3:22

She goes all in.

Speaker 1: 3:25

It's obnoxious to me because you've got to go back to prove that what happened to you in the past is not the current reality that you're operating under, and so it's something as parents to think about, and I know there's people that are going to be listening to us. The goal of this episode is not to make you feel guilt or shame for taking your kids to see therapists. We are therapists, right, and yet we're bringing a side to this that you need to be inquisitive about. When you have your kids, whether they have behavioral issues when they are younger, whether the school is saying I just encountered this this last week six or seven-year-old kids that are acting in quote-unquote neurodivergent fashions, right, and parents being told look, you might need to screen that child for Do they actually?

Speaker 2: 4:14

say neurodivergent fashions. Yes, what?

Speaker 1: 4:18

Yes, that word drives me crazy. Listen, there's autism. Should we put all these words out there? Right? Parents are being told that, though right by teachers, by providers, like your child is rubbing up against a desk, your child is twirling around outside in a circle on their tiptoes.

Speaker 1: 4:35

Your child is having issues with emotion, dysregulation, right, and this has very recently been happening with a few people that I've been working with, and their kids are tiny, right Six, seven, eight years old, and they're at this impasse of going. Well, maybe we should start doing testing. Maybe we should. The first thing they tell you to do is to call your doctor, right?

Speaker 2: 4:57

Oh, ours was go to your pediatrician.

Speaker 1: 4:58

Yes, go to the pediatrician. That's exactly what happens, right? And the pediatrician then starts saying, okay, well, let's do some assessments and they'll give an assessment that you do as a parent, an assessment that's done by the teachers. Okay, it can start that way. And the caution is, those assessments and those labels fast forward to when your child is 18 years old, 19 years old, right, wanting to work for the government, wanting to get into the military, coming off of your insurance and looking to get benefits, looking to get life insurance. These labels, these histories, even though the symptoms haven't been present for 10 years, 15 years, for some of these people they matter. They matter, and in the wrong way. I mean as the person doing these testing.

Speaker 1: 5:46

I can tell you it matters in all the wrong ways. I don't really give a shit what was going on with your kid when you were younger they do. But I want to look at the last couple of years of your life and just tell me how you've been doing, but tell me about your functioning and your real world stuff, and that is a great picture. That kind of negates this idea of I'm going to go back to that label, because that label mattered, because we gave you ADHD when you were seven and we medicated you for like three years, and that it's almost a moot point.

Speaker 2: 6:19

And.

Speaker 1: 6:20

I know I'm saying this like really like loose, like bold with this statement, like it's fucking doesn't matter.

Speaker 2: 6:27

It doesn't matter. How did we get to this point that what was going on with you in your childhood should should automatically be pulled forward into your adulthood as a diagnostic label? And the same thing happened to my daughter. So she went through some stuff in fifth grade and so when she had her baby, she just disclosed this to fifth grade. And so when she had her baby she just disclosed this to me. She goes.

Speaker 2: 6:48

When she had her baby four years ago at the OB's office, in her chart said history of depression. Because when she was in fifth grade so we had moved here in fifth grade, so she was going through some adjustment stuff and saw a therapist and all these things and that was in her chart. And I said to her I said tell them to get that out of your chart. I said that was in childhood, that was fifth grade, and she goes. I don't know how to get that out of my chart. And she's a nurse, she goes. I don't know how to do it. I said have them write a note about it or something you know. Like this is not appropriate and it's like she goes.

Speaker 2: 7:24

It was right there in my OB's office history of depression. I was like wow, because that takes no context into consideration. History of depression, of adjustment, because just moved here in fifth grade and having social interaction issues with peers. That makes sense to me in fifth grade, not just a now you've been labeled and that label now is yours forever. And so that makes me feel like shit actually, that she had that and carried forward because, as a concerned parent, again getting the help that they needed. Um, now is it? Well, it didn't for her, but it could have if, depending upon where she went, impacted her in her future you know, for my son 100% impact, you know 100%.

Speaker 1: 8:19

And I think that kids who see therapists right. And we've got a research article that Terry is going to talk a little bit about here and I say Terry because I only had like 14 seconds to read it. She sends me this fantastic stuff and I'm like it's just a summary.

Speaker 2: 8:34

It's not really the actual research. But the problem I'm just going to reiterate here the problem isn't always going to therapy. Sometimes the problem is the diagnostics that are required to go to therapy and those get carried with. I think there should be something that says you don't have to diagnose a child. You don't have to diagnose a child with a major mental health disorder or when they are 18, their childhood diagnosis is meaningless and they need to be reassessed now in adulthood diagnosis is meaningless and they need to be reassessed now in adulthood.

Speaker 1: 9:06

Yes, exactly yes, either when you're 18 or even if you're 30, and you're trying to do this like let's go back to, I don't know, mid twenties, when your central nervous system was finally developed.

Speaker 1: 9:15

Okay, then let's look at how life started functioning at that point, because just a little bit of context, like a little bit of what was happening. You know Something? I think that the article we had a Mad in America like context article here that we pulled up, it talked about this idea of kids and how honest they are in psychotherapy Well, and whether or not they believe it was helpful or hurtful to them, you know Well, and whether or not they believe it was helpful or hurtful to them, you know.

Speaker 2: 9:47

which is interesting because it was a small study, just so everybody knows. I think there was less than 50 participants, yep.

Speaker 2: 9:53

It was 45. 45. There was 45 participants in this, so it was small, but it's one of these studies that just makes you kind of go, hmm, you know, like this is really interesting. So I wanted to read some of the stats here that they and of course they're doing percentages, you know, but what anyway? So these were surveys. 67.7 of the participants reported experiencing at least one negative effect of their psychotherapy. This is in their childhood. Among them, 37.8% experienced increased stress, with 20% attributing it to their therapy. Likewise, 38.8% reported an increase in unpleasant memories, with 29.8% attributing it to psychotherapy. In addition, 31.1% experienced an increased perception that their problem would not improve. That's interesting to me.

Speaker 1: 10:47

31% said that their problem would not improve and they would believe it or not.

Speaker 2: 10:53

And that's because of therapists saying well, you're depressed now, so you're just going to be battling this for the rest of your life Some of that stuff. Another negative effect reported was decreased self-esteem oh, I see, there we go. Increased self-esteem oh I see, there we go. Yeah, there we go. Yeah. And study authors have noted that while increased symptoms such as anxiety, sadness and sleep problems were the most commonly reported negative effects of therapy, the increased perception that the problem would not improve was rated as the most severe. So you're going in there and you're making your anxiety and depression worse and also establishing a sense of hopelessness in childhood.

Speaker 2: 11:37

In childhood and I view childhood as a very transient time Like you are changing and growing and developing and new peer groups and new interests, all these things. Imagine going to a therapist and feeling now like you are stuck like this forever. There's some other research. Do you remember the one we talked about with DBT and teens making relationships with parents worse? Yeah, because sometimes I think and I'm not a child therapist I used to do therapy with, like teenagers and things like that, but children were never my jam. I stayed away from them because I did so many years of daycare that I was just not interested in working with young children anymore. But there's enough like I think about. Like Dr Phil always said, you know, as a parent you're taking your child to the therapeutic altar. Something's wrong with my child and that's how they view it too.

Speaker 1: 12:38

So what's very interesting is kids in general, and that's a blanket statement, but they view it that way. I have brought this up even with my kids. And going to talk to somebody and that is just like even to go see the school counselor it's got to be done in an incognito fashion, meaning you don't get up in the middle of class and everybody sees you and you go walk out and then they see you come back out of the counseling office. It's viewed and maybe this is like a cultural thing as well. I mean, there's factors that go into why kids would believe that doing this isn't super helpful for them, and I can see why. In the school it could be hard because all your peers are watching you go walk into the school counselor's office, right?

Speaker 2: 13:26

Well you go to the doctor. I mean, on a basic level, you go to the doctor when something's wrong with you, Like you go to the pediatrician when you have an ear infection there's something wrong with you.

Speaker 1: 13:35

That's exactly what. That's what it is.

Speaker 2: 13:37

It's what it is, and even I got to go to this person because there's something wrong with me, even though it might be a friend relationship thing, it might be stress at school, it could be something at home.

Speaker 1: 13:47

They don't, but they haven't lived enough life to understand Like, as adults, we can go and see a therapist and we can go. I know well for some of us, for some of us, we still think that we're messed up and something's wrong with us, but for for most of us, we've lived enough life to understand that, like I can work through this, someone can help me work through this. This is not a characterological flaw that I was born with and I'm fucked with forever, which, again, some people do believe that. But kids haven't lived enough life to understand that the perception of reality is very black and white when it comes to some of that. So they go into this, not wanting to do it most of the time, but their judgments of it are very flooded of how there's something wrong with them, that then they need to go and see somebody. So then you put them in a situation like that where it could decrease self-esteem, could create more anxiousness for them, could actually create more social problems for them in some ways.

Speaker 2: 14:41

Well, I think that's because when you go to therapy, especially as a young child, you're talking about all the bad shit you are. Yeah, it was Jen tell me about your parents' divorce Right Like you know, and I was like yep, yep, this is what happened, right?

Speaker 1: 14:56

And yes, and so you don't like sit through it. I mean, it's you're so simplistic as a child, talking your way through it, but the point of-. It's creating, it's creating that-.

Speaker 2: 15:06

Is there a narrative?

Speaker 1: 15:07

this is creating. That wasn't really fucking there in the first place and you were just like, well, yeah, oh, wow, that is bad.

Speaker 2: 15:13

My parents, even though they were divorced when I was two and I didn't know that was the worst time of my life. It was so bad I'm like you didn't know anything else.

Speaker 1: 16:19

And I know that therapy can be helpful for kids. We are bringing this up from a lens of more of just so you know it's not as though it stops the idea of I went to therapy stops when your child stops. Therapy. Records are very powerful.

Speaker 2: 16:44

Super, super powerful, very powerful. There was a psychiatrist that I was watching on some social media channel and he was interesting and he worked with children and he was doing a video of him taking diagnoses off charts. Okay, so he was taking them off the chart and I kept thinking I mean, that's cool and everything, but it doesn't really take it off the chart. You know, like you're saying, it's not going to be in my chart, but that doesn't mean it wasn't historic. And so when you play the tape forward for your child and what you want for them and what they want from themselves, you have no idea when they're six what they're going to want to do when they're 20.

Speaker 2: 17:20

But even that psychiatrist was trying to do the right thing by not having a diagnosis or these hardcore diagnosis on there. But it's still in your chart, it's still in your history, it still lives there, it's still on an insurance report, it's still everywhere. And you know, and even still like it did when I was thinking about the checklist for the federal government it didn't say do you have a diagnosis or not? I mean it did say that, but it said have you ever been to inpatient a therapist? It listed out have you ever been to see these people. So even if you were to go somewhere, pay privately and not get a diagnosis, you'd still have to say yes, you'd have to check that box. You still have to check the box and they still want the records. And so that doesn't even save you from that. The therapist would be able to say did you diagnose them? No, perhaps that therapist did not. If you paid privately, which is an option, guys just so you're aware.

Speaker 1: 18:24

You can pay privately. You can take your child and go pay privately somewhere and not run your insurance, eat the out-of-pocket cost of what it's going to cost and have a conversation with that therapist about do not diagnose my child. You can do that, in fact, guys, you can do that as adults too. I have several clients right now that pay privately because they don't want me to submit to insurance. Insurance requires that we label somebody. From a diagnostic standpoint, we have to.

Speaker 2: 18:56

And there'll be some therapists that'll be like well, you could do adjustment disorder and that blah blah. It doesn't matter, that's still a diagnosis, it's still there, clients that.

Speaker 1: 19:04

I am trying to undo their diagnoses on have adjustment disorders, with depression and anxiety, or explosive disorders as a child, when they were eight years old. The things we don't even call anymore they matter. And it doesn't say major depression, doesn't say schizophrenia, doesn't say attention deficit disorder, doesn't say bipolar disorder. None of that I do remember that one.

Speaker 2: 19:26

It said adjustment disorder. I'm like you have to go through a huge psyche valve like a renew to get rid of an adjustment disorder which, technically, is supposed to fall off after six months anyway, unless you continue to see somebody and you continue to update it right Like once you're done, it's because you need to, like, adjust to a circumstance that's happening in your life, Correct, Correct.

Speaker 1: 19:50

And so what these diagnoses don't take into account that carry with you as you get older and this happens to us as adults too is it doesn't take into account any of the life changes that have happened from each time that diagnosis maybe stops because you stopped seeing a provider and then five years later you go see somebody again. Okay, that diagnosis doesn't just poo-poo go off of your chart. And it's that same way for your kids, and they're changing so much. I mean not like we aren't as adults, but every single week and month that they live. You could assess their mental health on a Monday and 30 days later it is vastly different.

Speaker 1: 20:33

Different Just like women going through menopause. It's the same damn thing Like you ask me one month and then you assess 45 days later. It could be night and day, and that's what's happening with our kids is they are interacting and learning how to interact with the environment. The nervous systems are changing. Everything bounces off of them. Hormones are changing Hormones change.

Speaker 1: 20:54

Yes everything Like free radicals. They may or may not take in the Lyme disease they could have from being bit by a tick and all of a sudden there's these autoimmune issues that they have and it looks like you've got obsessive compulsive disorder when in reality you've got pads right. Like there's so many pieces to this.

Speaker 2: 21:14

I think for kids it's almost worse than it is for adults. I think so too, as far as us not digging any deeper than this is just a mental health problem. I really do, and maybe that's because a kid doesn't know to ask for those things, whereas some adults do. But I really think that kids are being slapped with labels and not looked any deeper, like if your kid suddenly changes, like there's a sudden change, there's a reason for that sudden change. It could be a lot of things, the things that Jen just mentioned. It could be, you know, your daughter's getting her period soon, you know, um, hormonally changing. Or your son is hitting puberty right now. Like there's so many things. And just the social stuff you know with kids is changing all the time, um, so I think I think the message here is to uncover everything else first.

Speaker 1: 22:10

As a parent too, right. People say, well, what am I supposed to do?

Speaker 1: 22:14

There's so much pressure, by the way, there's so much pressure and I'm in it, right, I've got a teenager right now. I've been there, yeah, I'm in it, and I will sit there and go through my mind back and forth in this and the pressure to go. Okay, it would be good if I think, if you had somebody to talk to, because of course, nobody wants to talk to me, like in my household, because they're like stop, you're just therapizing and it's obnoxious, blah, blah, blah. My spouse says that. My kids say that.

Speaker 1: 22:38

I get that, I got that from my kids all the time and that's fine.

Speaker 2: 22:41

I'm like.

Speaker 1: 22:42

I'm okay with that. But parents will ask like, well, what should I do? And in my mind you know there's lots of alternatives. Is it going to be helpful for your kid to see a therapist? Maybe, so, as a parent, you can ask those questions about how do they get diagnosed? Is there a way around this? Right? I don't want these labels put on my children. Instead of a therapist, why not go and look for a coach? Yeah, Go see a coach. Coaches are phenomenal.

Speaker 1: 23:11

Some, not all but the same with therapists too, by the way, We've had several coaches on this show, like Brianna Cohen is one that comes to mind right. Yep Like see if there are coaching services that might be a little bit more beneficial Start to look at-.

Speaker 2: 23:25

And less long-term damning and less long-term damning. The other thing I think about, with therapists too, is would therapists please stop pushing kids to be medicated. It's like you start in therapy and the next thing you know you're on medications and the next thing you know you're medicating yourself through puberty, through social interactions, through life. Like Jen, like, like Brooke that's been on here, like all these people like, oh gosh, I forgot the name the anxiety.

Speaker 1: 23:57

Kevin.

Speaker 2: 23:58

Kevin sorry, Kevin Gunderson, Like you know, medicating your way through life and now trying to live as an adult right, Without having, then, all the skill sets that you learn just by being. Like we don't have to learn skill sets from somebody teaching us. We learn skill sets just by being and moving through our lives and trial and error and all of these things it's like who's more uncomfortable, like when my kids are going through this shit.

Speaker 1: 24:24

I know they're uncomfortable. I'm more uncomfortable. I'm more uncomfortable when my kids are going through this shit. I know they're uncomfortable.

Speaker 1: 25:28

I'm more uncomfortable. I'm more uncomfortable and I want to fix this. I want to put an intervention on this and I have to pull, as a parent. Pull yourself back from that. Reach out, talk to other parents. Pull yourself back a little bit from it because, yes, we don't want to see our kids go through that. A little bit from it because, yes, we don't want to see our kids go through that. However, there's a lot of long-term damage that can happen if we intervene and put them in that way, and I got to jump. You just said something that you and I had a conversation about this, and when you just did this call to action for therapists to stop saying, put the kid on meds, I recommend, maybe meds. I support all the meds. As a therapist out there, we are taught that adding medications is like the gold standard. It's gold standard right. Here we go. Yep, this is what you do. You don't silo yourself in your intervention. You bring in psychiatry.

Speaker 2: 26:23

More supports more supports.

Speaker 1: 26:26

We're constantly taught that like that is the textbook thing we are taught. Terry and I are here to throw an alternate idea out at, at at anybody who is even a child therapist right now, at the idea that what if that line of thinking is wrong? What if the way that you were educated is actually incorrect and that the line of thinking should be medications are the last, last, last, last intervention, and this is after you've done everything else. Take a lens of that for just a minute, because we are changing the biology of these children. We are creating synthetic brain injuries in these children that were never there. We are stunting, stimulating their nervous systems. We are creating medical diagnoses, such as thyroid problems, graves disease, that did not exist for these children, okay, and we're taught opposite of that, let's talk about acne for a second.

Speaker 2: 27:37

Fuck Story of my life, jesus Christ. Yes, the side effects are astounding. But again, like we've talked about a million times on this show, side effects are just new symptoms emerging. You're getting worse. How can that be? You just gave me a medication that is supposed to be solving this problem. Suddenly I'm getting worse. Suddenly I have all these other health related things and nobody goes back and says maybe it's the medication. Nobody goes back and says that. And with kids particularly, one of the biggest things you see in kids when they're medicated is aggressive behavior, outbursts, all these things. And then the next thing, you know, they have a new med, now they have an antipsychotic because they're out of their minds, and now they have a sleep aid because they can't go to sleep at night because that stimulant happens.

Speaker 1: 28:26

That's what we see with a lot of the ADHD meds. Right and yep, you might actually be focusing just a little bit better now and you can sit still in the classroom. You're not flipping a chair when you get angry, right, You're not verbally bursting things out. You're not having this hyperactivity. That's a constant issue, right.

Speaker 1: 28:45

Maybe, or maybe you are because that med is not right for you and then you go on the medications and you do see a difference in your kid and you do start to see oh, they can sit still longer. Okay, they're eight. Is that a good thing? Okay? Oh well, all of a sudden now they're having changes in their sleep habits or they're starting to develop these tics or these like OCD type things that they didn't have before. So I went from the kid that's like dancing in outfield and doing circles constantly and needing to be extra stimulated to being numbed out and is kind of like I don't know they're. They all of a sudden are doing these repetitive counting behaviors and they have these tick behaviors that show up.

Speaker 2: 29:29

But they can concentrate in school, so it's okay, we're going to put another med on it.

Speaker 1: 29:34

Right, and so then we medicate that right. So it's, it's, and that is what's happening in the body Everybody. That's what's happening to the kids is the natural course of developing and getting through these physiological things that are happening. We stunted it, we stopped it, we retrained right, redid what the brain is doing with the drugs and is actually changing the trajectory then of how they develop. Their nervous systems develop across the board, and that runs our whole body.

Speaker 2: 30:02

That's I want to just bring in something and it's mom guilt and shame. And I'm bringing this in because I think it's an important piece of this conversation, because I'm saying moms, because moms are usually the ones in charge of mental wellbeing and healthcare for their kids Not that dads are not, but mostly moms are making those appointments, taking your kids there. There is a tremendous amount of pressure of mom guilt if you're not doing something right and shame if your child continues to act out in school. There's so much and I know this because I was one of those moms the amount of pressure that was put on me to medicate my kid was amazing. It was astounding to the point where the principal looked at me and said you need to make an appointment with a pediatrician so they can get on meds. And I said you do not know who you're talking to. That's what I said. And this was even before I am who I am today. Like this was, you know, years ago, even before I am who I am today. This was years ago and I'm like, even then, intuitively, I knew that I wasn't going to be medicating my young child. At the time, I think he was seven, I think it was seven, he was seven. But the immense pressure that you get from all angles to be a good mom to your child, to make sure that you medicate them.

Speaker 2: 31:22

It was interesting because when I was I'm going to loosely call this research for this episode, because I didn't do much but Reddit so I went to Reddit and one of the things about the subject line on Reddit was can you turn someone in to the police if they refuse to medicate their child for mental health stuff? And I'm like, because they're viewing it as, like you know, if you refuse to provide a healthcare to your child, you know CPS can be called on you. Can you do the same thing for somebody who is refusing to medicate their child's mental health problems? And I'm like that is a scary fucking place to be. Yeah, that's. Your neighbor can say you're not medicating your child. I'm like that is a scary fucking place to be. Your neighbor can say you're not medicating your child. I'm going to turn CPS on you, you know, or, or, if that becomes a thing, and then the school can turn you into CPS for not providing the healthcare for your kid.

Speaker 2: 32:15

you know the way you see fit and I'm like holy shit, this is a slippery slope of a conversation.

Speaker 1: 32:21

All I see is medicating into compliance In my brain. As I see these bulbs, the flashing bulbs across the mountains in LA we've got our big billboards. That's all I see is medicating them into compliance so that they can be that kid that matches up to all of those other kids. Right, ok, now you fit. Now you fit in here, and is that the approach we want to take? Does that make sense for me and for my child? Is that what I want? Are there other interventions that I haven't tried, such as really truly looking at revamping their nutrition?

Speaker 2: 33:07

and taking a really good hard.

Speaker 1: 33:08

look at, like, how much time they're spending doing activities that may not be helpful for promoting and optimizing the brain and the body, right, yeah, like there are so many options we can look at that aren't just medication and therapy.

Speaker 2: 33:21

Mm-hmm, they exist are so many options we can look at that aren't just medication and therapy? Well, and I think one of the issues and I can go back into my own experience for this was learning deeply that the school system isn't the place that's going to help your kid the most, because they're just not equipped. You can't. So my kid was in supports for math and reading for a very long time and it was doing nothing. So as a parent, I had to go out and hire experts to help him get through that time of his life. And then suddenly everything clicked and he was good to go and he is living a very productive adult, young adult life right now, Right. So but if I would have changed course on that early or just allowed things to happen, I can't even imagine what would have happened now.

Speaker 1: 34:08

Right, like your kid, doesn't fit the standard timeline of everybody else we talk about neurodivergence, like.

Speaker 2: 34:15

I view this as like, just being different is okay, right, like being not the same as everyone else is okay, but we only reward sameness. You know, sameness is rewarded If you're sitting in your chair, that's rewarding. You know, we don't reward differences. And I'm not talking about, you know, the kid who's fighting all the time. You know, I'm talking about the kid who's slow to tie their shoes. That was the biggest complaint with my kid, you know. I'm like, give me some examples of what you see. Well, when it's time to go outside, he's very slow to tie his shoes. And I'm like, oh, all, right, and so then we would send him in no tie shoes. Like, no tie shoes. I'm like, just slide these suckers on and get outside. Well, nope, he's got to have tie on shoes.

Speaker 1: 35:06

And I was like Developmentally. That's where he should be with all the other kids. You are seven years old. You should be tying your fucking shoes, right, Yep.

Speaker 2: 35:14

And I was like you cannot win, you can't win. You know, like he was set up to fail in those situations, right so, but I'll never forget that I'm like he's slow to tie a shoe, get bent, what, like that's the biggest problem. You know, I was just like what the fuck anyway. But do you know how many meetings we had about that stupid shit? Like it was so bad, and I'm like this is why other kids can't get the help that they need, because they're focusing on my kid who's slow to tie his fucking shoe, like it was so dumb. You want to know how I solved that.

Speaker 2: 35:47

This is really funny. I want to tell you how I solved it, because I think it's hilarious, because you know he's got two older sisters. He's the youngest of three, and that's part of it too is like you know he's the youngest of three, whatever, and he refused to learn how to tie his shoes. So this is where we're at he refused to learn how to tie his shoes, and so I looked at his sister and I said I will give whichever one of you $50 if you will teach him how to tie his shoe, like right now. And he looked at me and he goes well, what if I did it myself? Will you give me 50 bucks? I said sure, hell yeah. What did that little shit do In hours? He's so smart. This is why he works for the government.

Speaker 1: 36:26

Now he was so exactly smart like like those, those anti-social traits right there hell yeah right, pathologize to the max.

Speaker 2: 36:36

You know, right there, right, like it was life skill, life skill by the way right.

Speaker 1: 36:41

Life skill like developing at age seven right.

Speaker 2: 36:43

Right. It was at that moment that I was like, yeah, yeah, like Matt, I need to medicate. You know, mostly I just need to incentivize you to do the thing that you need to do. But you know, I I feel like in today's world, like we go to well, and I think it's also a fear-based situation too, because if you don't medicate, they're going to end their lives, and I'm like that rhetoric needs to change, it needs to stop, it needs to be not the reason why we guilt and shame moms into you know, medicating their kid, because it is just. It's just not the truth. You know, and, as a matter of fact, the truth is more on the black box warning the more you medicate, the more they will end their lives.

Speaker 1: 37:25

yes, suicidal issues, yes, exactly yeah and so when you wrap this whole context into like what we're talking about here, I think part of the message is, as parents, we we receive a lot of shame. Shame talk like that is something that we get a ton of. The language that's given to us as parents, whether it's from providers, whether it's even from therapists, whether it's from staff at the schools it can be very manipulative. And so it's about really just sitting back and trying to figure out what is best for your kid, knowing that if you're going to bring interventions in such as seeing a child therapist, be cautious with that, be inquisitive about other options, because that does stay with your kids and it stays with them for a very, very, very long time. And then, as adults, they have to come to people like me or Terry and we have to do full psych assessments to try and say Go to Jen, she's way better at it.

Speaker 1: 38:26

But it's part of the whole story and usually when you look back through these records you see the events happening in their lives that caused this. There was a trauma at age eight, there was a separation, there was some major social issues happening in school, there was some bullying. You start to look at the records from the school counselors and go well, yeah, this is what was going on in your life. No wonder you were acting out. For some it's to a very extreme level. But if any provider or therapist says to you this is an issue with your kid's brain, run, run away fast, find somebody else. Find somebody else who is willing to look at this differently, because you can, you have the ability to do that. The shame language tells you no. The mom guilt tells you no, but that's not factual. That guilt is not factual at all, actually.

Speaker 2: 39:22

Don't allow anybody to guilt or shame you into doing this. That's the biggest thing. Like as soon as you hear that manipulative language, you need to go.

Speaker 1: 39:30

Yep, there are so many alternate providers out there who do so much holistic stuff that can really be even more beneficial for your child. And get curious about it because it is out there. Are your doctors or even some of your therapists going to say that to you? No, most of them don't, but we will.

Speaker 2: 39:48

Yeah, we will for sure. Yeah, well, now I'm just worried because I'm a grandma now, so I'm just worried about her. I'm like, oh no, make sure we don't go down that road.

Speaker 1: 39:59

It never stops. It never stops, I know it doesn't stop. That's a mom, always a mom. Make sure we don't go down that road. It never stops, I know it doesn't stop.

Speaker 2: 40:03

That's a mom always a mom, I know. So at least my older kids are a little bit more well-versed in this stuff now that I don't have to worry about it. But it was tough. It was such a hard time, the guilt, the shame, and you got to be a feisty motherfucker to stand up for all of that.

Speaker 1: 40:19

You got to be tenacious as fuck to go okay, yep, nope, nope, let's try something else. And then you also have to really step back and go. Who is having the biggest issue with this? Is it my child? Is it me? Is it the school? Who actually has the biggest issue with all of it? Do you want?

Speaker 2: 40:36

to know. I would just quickly share. It turned out that this was an elementary school. It turned out that that elementary school had the most medicated kids for ADHD in the entire district. And that was all from the principal. And I was like holy shit.

Speaker 1: 40:54

This is incredible, yeah, so yeah, Anyway.

Speaker 2: 40:58

So I think we're going to wrap it up there. Huh, I think that's probably a good spot, Anyway. So I think we're going to wrap it up there. Huh, I think that's probably a good spot. Or it could go on for days. Anyway, that's another episode of the Gaslit Truth Podcast. Please feel free to like, comment, follow, share, subscribe, Do all the things. Give us only the. What is it?

Speaker 1: 41:13

five stars, four stars, whatever Give us all the stars, the highest amount of stars Give us all the stars.

Speaker 2: 41:18

If you're not going to give us stars, don't leave a review. Thank you very much, and if you want to send your gaslit truth stories to us, please send them to us at the gaslit truth podcast at gmailcom. Also, if you know somebody that would be a really good guest on the show that is doing some really interesting things in the field of mental health, send us their name too, because we would love to get them on. So that's a wrap of the gas.