The Gaslit Truth

Prepare Your Brain for Psych Med Tapering: The 90-Day Warmup pt. 1

• Dr. Teralyn & Therapist Jenn • Season 2 • Episode 66

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⚠️ Ready to stop your psych meds? Don’t make a move until you’ve heard this.

In this powerful episode of The Gaslit Truth Podcast, Deprescribing Consultants Dr. Teralyn and Jenn reveal the science-backed truth behind what your brain really needs before tapering off psychiatric medications.

💥 Spoiler: It’s not just about cutting pills.
It’s about rebuilding what meds may have depleted — your neurotransmitters, your nutrient stores, your resilience.

You’ll learn:

Why amino acids and protein are essential for brain health

The 4 pillars of tapering prep: Nutrition, Sleep, Movement, Mindfulness

How psychiatric meds deplete nutrients, harm your gut, and impact gray matter

Why HIIT may be hurting more than helping

What to do during the crucial “90-day warm-up” phase

🎧 Whether you’re considering tapering, already in the process, or supporting someone who is — this episode is for you.
⚠️ BUCKLE UP FOR SOME BASIC BULLSH*T YOU’VE BEEN SOLD:
 You’ve been told nutrition doesn’t matter during a med taper?
 WRONG.
Here’s the real deal 👇
 🧠 Your brain’s neurotransmitters?
 They’re made from amino acids.
 Amino acids come from protein.
 No protein = Broken Neurotransmitter Pathways = Brain chaos during your taper.
 Read. That. Again.
💥 It’s that simple — and that serious.
Join Deprescribing Consultants Terri and Jenn, hosts of The Gaslit Truth Podcast, as they rip apart myths and break down real brain science in everyday language — so you can finally understand what your body needs to come off meds safely.

Have you been told you'll need antidepressants forever? That narrative might be one of the biggest gaslights in modern mental healthcare. As we reveal in this eye-opening first episode of our two-part series, successfully tapering off psychiatric medications requires something most doctors never mention: preparation.

The journey to medication freedom begins long before you cut your first pill.

Halfway To Dead, A Midlife Spiritual Journey
Midlife is freaking hard. Let's flip the script.

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Dr. Teralyn:

Therapist Jenn:





Dr. Teralyn Sell:

It's fine. It's fine. You've been gaslit into believing that you will be on your antidepressants forever. This is a two-part episode, so this is part one and we are talking about how to taper your medications. We are your whistleblowing shrinks, Dr Tara Lynn and therapist Jen, and this is the Gaslit Truth Podcast.

Therapist Jenn Schmitz:

It is. And you know here's the cool thing about this is, yes, we're therapists, right, but we are also deprescribers. So, we consult with people on this exact topic that we are going to be talking about in this two-part series, because we actually have a little knowledge on this.

Dr. Teralyn Sell:

A little bit, and I want to bring in this too. I've been getting some phone calls lately about people who have done deprescribing and their brains still don't feel healthy. So this might be helpful for that group of people as well, and Jen and I work with brain health as well, so don't feel like if you've already tapered, that you can't work with us because you can.

Therapist Jenn Schmitz:

Yes, you can. There's still maintenance that you can do. And hey, there's that bitch of that thing called protracted withdrawal. Yes, doesn't do us any favors for months, or sometimes even years after discontinuing a psych med and you have to continue to support your brain.

Dr. Teralyn Sell:

So yes, so I feel like this episode is going to be good for people before they taper and after, if you haven't already done this type of work.

Therapist Jenn Schmitz:

So yeah, cause they're similar.

Dr. Teralyn Sell:

Yeah, yeah, they're very similar. So this is the episode on what to do before you taper.

Therapist Jenn Schmitz:

Yeah, yeah. And this part is, um, I think, sometimes difficult for people to wrap their brain around, because a taper should just be well, let's start tapering Right and now. Not that you can't do that, all right, you know it is an option. Okay For some people. I would rather have people like taper hyperbolically and safely and do it that way even if you don't have all the things dialed in first, versus just following some of the advice I'm trying to think about my headspace when I was doing it.

Dr. Teralyn Sell:

I think this might be a headspace of a lot of people. You finally get to a space where you're like now is the time I'm going to do it, I don't want to get another prescription, and so today is the day, or tomorrow or Monday or whatever it is. Because you get to that spot and then you try and then it goes haywire and then you lose hope and the whole thing starts all over again. So Jen and I are here to tell you that you need a plan, a three-month warmup, if you will.

Therapist Jenn Schmitz:

Yes, for sure, and Terry did it the other way, right, and I have the benefit of being able to talk about actually doing the 90 day warmup um a few months worth of lifestyle shit.

Dr. Teralyn Sell:

Yeah, the 90 day warmup didn't exist when I was, uh, on medication. Uh, so I did the cold Turkey. Uh, I did the cold turkey. I did the cold turkey, which I would never, ever suggest to anyone, and if you've ever tried it, you know why. Even if you've missed a couple of days, you probably understand why not. But this was at a time where I didn't know what I knew and all this stuff about tapering didn't exist, and so I'm glad that it exists now, and I'm glad that it exists now, and I'm glad that Jen and I are here to talk about it. So, if you are considering taping your medication, if you're even just curious about it, like you're like contemplating, should I, shouldn't I? You know, this might help you to understand what it might take. And this isn't to give you like take, and this isn't to give you like, oh, this is going to take forever and so long, but the best plan is a well-executed and developed plan.

Therapist Jenn Schmitz:

Yeah, it's one that focuses more on lifestyle and actually shifting your lifestyle.

Therapist Jenn Schmitz:

It kind of reminds me of the discussion we had about New Year's resolutions right and how we have these little short-term goals right, but let's forget that let's actually change our lifestyle, because going through a medication taper pre, during and post for it to be the most effective and most successful, it is going to require some lifestyle changes. And people don't like to hear that and I'm not saying across the board this is for everybody. But the most effective way to start tapering is to dial your lifestyle in for a few months prior to actually tapering.

Dr. Teralyn Sell:

But I will say even if you have your lifestyle or you believe that your lifestyle is relatively dialed in and some people it really is there still are a lot of pieces that you have to plan for ahead of time. So I'm still going to stick by that three-month warm-up, no matter where you are in your lifestyle. And I also want to tell you that, because of things like diet, culture and all that we get into this all-or-nothing space that if I can't do it 100% right, that I'm not going to do it at all, do it 100% right, that I'm not going to do it at all. And I want to let you know that, when it comes to these lifestyle changes, I tell people, if you get a good C like a 70% to 75% on this assignment, you're going to be doing well. So, yeah, so if you get a C, on the assignment you're going to do well.

Therapist Jenn Schmitz:

Sounds like my undergrad. Yeah, I mean, that sounds C's get degrees and guess what C's are going to get you through a taper, damn it. So you'll be fine, Like here we go.

Dr. Teralyn Sell:

I love it.

Therapist Jenn Schmitz:

Here we go. And I actually think, Terry, as we start this off. We need to talk first about something that you have shared with me, that I share with all of my clients. That, I think, is one of the best tips for starting a taper, and prior to tapering is about and this goes beyond tapering too but the idea of how you give yourself grace within this when you just said, caesar, okay, some days are good, some are better some are best and some are just good enough.

Dr. Teralyn Sell:

Good enough Yep. The good, better, best, good enough plan is how I live my life.

Therapist Jenn Schmitz:

It's one of the best pieces of advice and I give it to all my clients, especially my tapering clients. You're going to have to give yourself some grace through this process, because it's not easy.

Dr. Teralyn Sell:

I do feel like I need to shout out to my friend, marsha, who was actually the one that introduced me to the good, better, best, good enough idea years ago, and that has just stuck with me because it's brilliant and it's beautiful and it makes a lot of sense. So I love to share that with as many people that will listen. So, all right, with that in mind, I have my. We're going to go from low to number one, um, and I don't know, jen, did you write stuff down or did you?

Therapist Jenn Schmitz:

not, I didn't write down shit. Look at this. I got no notes. Sounds good. It's in my melon, you know.

Dr. Teralyn Sell:

So this is this is my chance to do a little shameless self-promotion for my book, because this book is really the three month warmup.

Therapist Jenn Schmitz:

It is. I was hoping you were going to say that this is how much show prep we do. I was. I was like I hope she talks about this, because this is what we're talking about.

Dr. Teralyn Sell:

This is literally so. My book your Best Brain you can find it on Amazon, but it is literally written out to help you with your brain, but it is a three-month warm-up, so each section in this book is a pillar of mental health that Jen and I talk about in the four pillars of mental health, which is nutrition, sleep, movement and meditation, ie stress management. So there's more in the book than that, but those are the big four pillars that Jen was talking about when she said you need to dial in your lifestyle, because there's more to lifestyle than just eating and I think people like to focus in on it's just food. It's just food. It's not just food. There's many parts, or at least four, that we've identified as your big pillars of mental health, and so that is identified in the book.

Therapist Jenn Schmitz:

So we don't do that. $15.99 on Amazon, guys, no episodes, you just buy Terry's book.

Dr. Teralyn Sell:

Just buy the book and move along.

Therapist Jenn Schmitz:

I like that. All right, we'll give out some free advice for two episodes. How's that sound Sure?

Dr. Teralyn Sell:

But I look at the four pillars and so if you're really thinking about it eat, sleep, move, meditate are the four pillars? I ask people to kind of evaluate where they believe they are zero to 10, 10 being the best. Where are you in these pillars? And that gives you some good guidance on which ones are your weakest pillars and which ones are your strongest. And if we're looking to get a 70 on that, you want a seven. So what does a seven look like in these pillars for you? What does a six look like? What does an eight look like? That type of thing. So I think that's an important piece of this, so you know where you are and you know where you want to be and what that might look like in each pillar.

Dr. Teralyn Sell:

Supplementation can be a key part in your plan and when you go on some of these Facebook sites, there's a little bit of conflicting information. Like some people are like don't do any supplements, Just let your brain heal. I'm like, I don't know about that, I'm conflicted. I'd like to know what you think about that, Jen, because I know that I've started you with some supplements and things like that and I wonder if you feel like it was valuable.

Therapist Jenn Schmitz:

Yeah, yeah, now I do, and I don't disagree with you. We get that, and actually we've had guests on the show that have gotten off meds and didn't use any supplements either.

Dr. Teralyn Sell:

Right.

Therapist Jenn Schmitz:

Yeah, and that's fine. I mean, I think that this is a very individualized choice. Now, for me it was something that was important, based off a lot of. I mean, I did functional testing before I started this guys. So functional medicine came into play and my serotonin, my dopamine levels, norepinephrine, epinephrine, gamma glutamate all these were tested right. We did some hormone testing so I had that there as some evidence to go. Oh, this is why this could be happening. My dopamine pathway is shit because my norepinephrine isn't converting to epinephrine, because I'm not producing any adrenaline, because I don't have that. My cortisol outputs were shit when I woke up and there's not a nice pretty little curve that's starting at the top and going down during the day. For me, that curve was at the bottom when I woke up.

Therapist Jenn Schmitz:

already, curve that's starting at the top and going down during the day for me that curve was at the bottom when I woke up already, so for me it was helpful and I brought in amino acids. So amino acids are something that you want to work with somebody who understands these and who can actually talk about them. Amino acids can be bought anywhere, guys. I mean you can buy them at Walgreens, you can go get them on like professional websites, right, like we have a website.

Dr. Teralyn Sell:

Your gym rats are all using amino acids.

Therapist Jenn Schmitz:

Yeah, they're in as flip around your protein powder, Any kind of protein powders that you have. Flip them over. You're going to see L-tyrosine in there.

Dr. Teralyn Sell:

I'm sorry. If you eat turkey and chicken, you're going to see amino acids.

Therapist Jenn Schmitz:

You're going to see tryptophan. You're going to see all the things right Like they're in there. So there's something that you can get from a supplement. You also get them from food and nutrition. What I caution people on is, if you're going to take supplements, at least get some guidance from someone who understands them, because supplements can be especially amino acids they are contraindicated with your psych meds. Some are contraindicated. For example, I have to be very careful with 5-HTP because that actually has an adverse effect on the antidepressant Lexapro that I'm taking. Now do I not not take it? No, actually I do, and there are times where I do take it for a couple months at a time and I see how I feel on it and it actually assists in some of that serotonin pathway for me, how I sleep a little bit better, but then I don't always need it. So that's the other thing to remember when we're talking about supplements is they are a supplement. They are not something that outdoes a shit lifestyle. You cannot out supplement a shit lifestyle.

Therapist Jenn Schmitz:

So, these are these pillars we're going to talk about, because if you can't get yourself dialed in in these and all you think you just need is to use supplements, you're pissing your money down the drain.

Dr. Teralyn Sell:

Well and I do want to bring this part in is that supplements are getting this wrap of like a medication right. Take this. I get messages like this all the time what can I take that's natural, that will help me, and I'm like it doesn't work like that. People are looking for that perceived quick fix in a supplement, and I wish there were one, but I like to think about supplements as more intuitive. They're also intuitive for you. I know that if I don't take an omega-3 fatty acid every day, that my brain skips beats. I don't know how else to describe it.

Therapist Jenn Schmitz:

I can't find words. Word finding is gone. If I go more than a couple of days without my omegas, my word finding is gone.

Dr. Teralyn Sell:

Yes, that's what it is for me too. It skips and whatever. So I know that omega-3 fatty acids are good for me. Should I be eating more fish? Probably you know, but I do a higher dose of omega-3 fatty acid Now in the wintertime my husband takes 5-HTP because he's an ornery crab ass in the winter and so I know right, a little 5-HTP helps him out a lot.

Therapist Jenn Schmitz:

We got all the women listening going oh my God, I got to buy a baby right now for my husband.

Dr. Teralyn Sell:

Okay, we're going to put it in stock, but that's.

Therapist Jenn Schmitz:

It is very you're right, it's very individualized. So I guess, when it comes to this piece about supplements, which an amino acid. We could do a whole episode on that too. I know we should. Actually, this is a good idea, right? It is very individualized and it is helpful to either work with someone who understands aminos okay or start doing some research on your own. It is very easy to go online and look up what medications are contraindicated with L-tyrosine and you can look that up.

Dr. Teralyn Sell:

I'll give you a good website. People, if you're listening, just go to drugscom. Like drugscom will actually help you do two things. They will tell you about the drugs that you're taking, how they're interacting with each other. You can also put in some supplements. They don't have a lot of supplements on there, but I believe you can put in some supplements on there too, so that's a really good resource for people.

Dr. Teralyn Sell:

But, yeah, I've spent the last I don't know how 10 years figuring out amino acids. It was the very first thing that I looked at for people. So now we can enter in some of the functional medicine labs and then also micronutrient labs. You can get at your doctor's office so that you can actually see what other nutrients are missing, because we know, in order for an amino acid to turn into a neurotransmitter, you need certain nutrients in place, like your B vitamins, your vitamin C, your vitamin D, which nobody looks at. These things need to be there and they need to be at substantial levels. Now, then, I mean we can go down this whole rabbit hole. Maybe we should in a whole big episode, but not today, okay.

Dr. Teralyn Sell:

Yeah, we can't start talking about nutrient depletions, because, my God this is like the drain you go down this rabbit hole and then pretty soon especially if you don't know what you're doing or your person you're working with doesn't know you're going to be on 20 different supplements and you're not going to know which one is helpful, which one is not, and eventually it's like a funnel You're going to funnel it down to the ones that you believe are the most helpful.

Dr. Teralyn Sell:

When I say you believe it's the ones that you intuitively know are the ones that you need, right, and that again, jen, and I talk about this like regaining your sense of personal agency, like you figure out what you want. When I lay out a plan to somebody, I give them the kitchen sink, like I give them the whole thing, and then in the end, I ask every single one where do you want to start? What makes sense for you to begin? How many supplements would you like to begin with? What doesn't feel overwhelming to you? And then I'll guide them into, like their top three or your top five, you know so, cause we can go on and on and on with supplements, you know.

Therapist Jenn Schmitz:

We could, we could, but in general, I think it kind of takes us into the next, this pillar of overall. What are we putting in?

Dr. Teralyn Sell:

our mouth.

Therapist Jenn Schmitz:

Okay, we're talking nutrition as as one of these pillars and I think one of the I mean Terry, and I take a pretty, pretty basic.

Dr. Teralyn Sell:

I'm going to say this is pretty basic approach Like we will have, I will have people and I will say to them.

Therapist Jenn Schmitz:

I'm like people pay me a shit ton of money to talk to them about what's going in their mouth, and there are some basic premises that are very, very important overall when it comes to nutrition, and I think we can hit sugars, caffeines, proteins, Boom boom, boom.

Dr. Teralyn Sell:

Yeah, that's about it.

Therapist Jenn Schmitz:

Mine's decaf and it says chill, chill, it looks like hill. Oh, I see the C is the handle.

Dr. Teralyn Sell:

That's really cute, mine's half decaf, half regular today, but you know, but that's what it is.

Therapist Jenn Schmitz:

We are talking about some basic stuff. So obviously in each of these pillars today we're not going to dive too far into it. But correct me if I'm wrong, terri. Those are a start for really looking at like proteins, sugars, caffeine, yeah.

Dr. Teralyn Sell:

Yep Water and water and water and.

Therapist Jenn Schmitz:

I think something for and yes, you're right water, something for everybody to know, is a very simple. Again, I say this I got people pay me so much to say this to them, but I wouldn't, and I didn't know this either, right, until, and it's not that hard. But okay, guys ready, neurotransmitters, okay, that are in our brain, buckle up because this is the news.

Dr. Teralyn Sell:

Put your seatbelt on right.

Therapist Jenn Schmitz:

Put your seatbelt on, Put your fucking belt on Neurotransmitters that are in our brain. Right, these are these dopamine, serotonin, gaba, which is actually a neurotransmitter and an amino. But that's okay, we won't go there. These things, right? Okay, all these main neurotransmitter pathways. They are made from amino acids. All right, amino acids must be obtained. They are derived from protein that you eat.

Dr. Teralyn Sell:

That's it. That's your basic bullshit.

Therapist Jenn Schmitz:

I mean, that's literally.

Dr. Teralyn Sell:

So this is one of those things where I go. So how in the world does it not make sense to focus in a little bit on your diet In the mental health world if we're so worried about brain health and all this stuff like diet and even protein helps stabilize blood sugar, which is hugely implicated. So I tell people, if you do nothing else, if you do nothing else, improve your protein intake. That's it.

Therapist Jenn Schmitz:

Yes, there's more, and here's where here's where Terry's like good, better, best, better enough, comes in, right, because there are really like best sources of protein right, you've got your, your, your, really super great lean proteins. Whether you're eating like, say, a chicken breast right, that's grilled, okay, like something in that realm, right, that's like our best category. Our better category might be making a shake, okay, like a protein shake, for example. Maybe putting a little protein powder in it, perhaps, right, or natural sources of protein, okay, in a shake. Then you have some days that are just good and the best you can do is go grab one of those damn chocolate protein bars out of your cabinet, okay, and scarf that down, because I don't have time throughout the day to continue to introduce a best protein and that's it.

Therapist Jenn Schmitz:

You can have levels of this, right. You may have days where you're snacking every three, four hours and what you're eating in between is a good source of protein. Maybe it's a healthy nut, maybe you've got your walnuts, maybe you've got your cashews, your macadamias, your almonds right, that might be a good. Yes, I'm doing that every few hours and putting a protein in my body, and then it may be. All I can do today is dump some protein powder in a shake, shake it up and go. That's my protein, or?

Dr. Teralyn Sell:

even one of those nasty ass ready-made protein shakes.

Therapist Jenn Schmitz:

You know, I mean that would be a good enough thing.

Dr. Teralyn Sell:

They are nasty ass not the best, but they're going to do the job. They are good enough when you need good enough, but they're going to do the job. They are good enough when you need good enough. So this is kind of the leeway that you need to give yourself and all those options good, better, best, good enough could occur in a single day, and there could be a whole day of good enough.

Dr. Teralyn Sell:

There could be a whole day of best, but some days they occur all throughout. But those are your basic things Eat more fruits, vegetables and protein period. It was really interesting. I just want to bring in a little thing, because I took a class and we had to put in. It was like a calculator of like the vitamins and minerals that we ate in a day. So you put in your food and it spits out here's the vitamins, here's all the nutrients, not just calories, but it's all the nutrients that you've now eaten in a day. And then you were to put in one whole fruit or one whole vegetable. So you put in the same information, but then you add a fruit or a vegetable and see how it changes.

Dr. Teralyn Sell:

And I thought I put in like pizza and all this crap, a bunch of shit food, because there are days that I eat a bunch of shit food. And then I go in my mind I'm like, what difference does it make if I eat an apple? Now I've already trashed the whole day and I will tell you it makes a huge difference. So adding in an apple changed the entire profile. So don't ever think that if you're having a quote, unquote bad food day that eating a whole fruit or vegetable or protein source won't help you, because it will, it'll change the whole profile for the day. So that might be something for you guys to think about in your nutrition journey. And secondarily I just wanted to bring this in this nutrition journey is not about weight loss, so get that right out of your brain. This is about brain health.

Therapist Jenn Schmitz:

That's what I was just going to say the idea of eating a protein every few hours.

Dr. Teralyn Sell:

That is what.

Therapist Jenn Schmitz:

I talk about is bringing a protein in, right, and every few hours, because I'll have a lot of people that and I'm not we're not sitting here bashing fasting either. Okay, there's a whole whole nother plethora of that too, which, okay, we're talking about strictly from. I'm trying to get ready, my body ready to taper. I am trying to support my brain right now and what it needs. Okay, part of that is continuing to teach yourself to eat more frequently and when you eat, what to choose. That could be better for you. So, if you can bring in proteins every few hours, bring in fresh fruits or veggies or something that's higher in fiber or some good vitamins to it, right, that is going to help prepare you and prepare your brain. Because here's the deal. This is another episode, but quick tidbit of information All those psych meds you guys are taking, they deplete the shit out of certain nutrients. Your B vitamins are down the tank. Your folic acid is down the tank.

Dr. Teralyn Sell:

They also ruin your gut health. So if your gut health is not strong, you're not absorbing the things that you're taking in, so they do a lot of damage, you know and they change up, they change the talk that happens from the brain to the gut.

Therapist Jenn Schmitz:

Right, we know that a good chunk of our serotonin is created in the gut. So all of you who are taking SSRIs, SNRIs, I should say even any of the meds, cause they, they all, deplete all of these areas right, You're starting to tell serotonin hey, guess what? You're downregulated. That's starting to tell the gut guess what?

Therapist Jenn Schmitz:

We're not producing as much of this, the gut is going to react. They talk back and forth, so it's just something to think about too. Our gut health is not in a great space and the nutrients are being depleted. So one of those things when it comes to food is let's start to bring in food and or nutrients from food to help replenish some of what we lost. Are we going to get all of it? No, because you only get as much as your gut health is going to allow you to have. But, guys, it's a start.

Dr. Teralyn Sell:

It's a start to looking at food differently. People say you are what you eat, and I think People say you are what you eat, and I think it's more, you are what you absorb. Um, so you gotta think about that, but they're, they both work hand in hand, so all right. So we're not going to do a deep dive into sleep, move and meditate because we're going to run out of time. Um.

Therapist Jenn Schmitz:

I would, I would like to huh yeah, we, we could do a little, but it can't be super deep, right? Yeah?

Dr. Teralyn Sell:

Well, because I could talk about sleep all day long, because it's another huge factor in people's lives is sleep. If you think you can run off of four or five hours, you actually can't. That's usually probably a cortisol issue that you're having, but you think that you can run off of it, so anyway. So there's a lot, a lot of sleep, and sleep has to do with how you prepare your body to fall asleep, your environment and your body and your brain to sleep, and if you roll back through, even things like caffeine are going to negatively impact your sleep. I did a little thing on the half-life of caffeine and I was shocked that if you drink a cup of caffeine at 8 am one day, the next day it's still in your system at 8 am, so it never goes away.

Dr. Teralyn Sell:

So if you're constantly drinking caffeinated beverages and we're not just talking about coffee, because there's caffeinated beverages in everything, like all your energy drinks and all those things we tend to leave out and, by the way, when we think about a cup of coffee we're not talking about you know, this is not a cup of coffee.

Therapist Jenn Schmitz:

this giant mug, this tiny little guy right here.

Dr. Teralyn Sell:

Is a cup of coffee. What I'm showing would be two cups of coffee actually. So, yes, so you know, get real on what you're, what you're starting to pay it, yeah, pay attention to caffeine sources.

Therapist Jenn Schmitz:

Um, I actually just took my uh daughter earlier today um to this, really great, great, great, great. Like healthy. It is very, very, very healthy. Um, like coffee shop, but they don't do coffee, it's all teas, Okay, and things like that and what.

Therapist Jenn Schmitz:

What she was asking me about, right, and this is where we start to talk about caffeine, is like the the, you know moderate size. They actually write out how many milligrams of caffeine are in it, and what people don't realize is there is caffeine in tea, right, and so these are all teas that they serve, but there's 190 milligrams of caffeine in what she ordered this morning, and so we're talking about that, right, Because you know, like our poor kids and my whole house has to deal with my brain health like nerd that I go on, right, they're like just shut up, mom, just let me have my tea and shut up, right. But when we think about caffeine, this is sleep. So sleep is also tied to your caffeine, to your sugars, right, and to your proteins, Okay. So it's something to think about when it comes to, obviously, what you put in your mouth and how it can impact sleep. So think about that decreasing caffeine intake to help with sleep, not having any caffeine after you know early mid morning, early morning nothing.

Therapist Jenn Schmitz:

It's 10, 11 am. I'm done. That's it. No more caffeine throughout the rest of the day. Also, I got to touch on this quick before we move on to the next pillar. Terry, you just said something that I think is important, and it's prepping the brain and the body for sleeping at nighttime. Do you have a routine?

Dr. Teralyn Sell:

I think everybody has a routine. Is the routine good? Probably not.

Therapist Jenn Schmitz:

Well, that's what I'm asking, is what your routine is, because I think if we have some ideas we can give people for, like what is super helpful for the healthy routine that helps prep the brain and body for sleep.

Dr. Teralyn Sell:

I will tell you what is not healthy for me is probably an easier thing. So will tell you what is not healthy for me is probably an easier thing. So, um well, I always turn my heat down to 63 at night, so the whole house is 63 degrees. Um, I do have a ceiling fan on which my husband would love for it to break. Um but then I would just get a bigger one.

Therapist Jenn Schmitz:

So industrial big ass fan, barn fan, barn fan a barn fan fan.

Dr. Teralyn Sell:

That would be next on the list. I used to use a lot of essential oils in the bedroom when I was having trouble sleeping, because your sense of smell can pick that up and not only can they help you relax, but then they start associating. That smell means sleep. So that's important to your body, associates certain things, so I don't put pajamas on and then go watch TV. I put pajamas on and I go to bed. We don't have a television going in our bedroom. Those things have changed throughout the years for us, because that was a huge argument with the television. Now are there nights that I get stuck on my phone, 100%.

Dr. Teralyn Sell:

Yeah you do, yeah, and so I'm just calling myself out on that and I will say those are the nights that I do not sleep well. Usually it has to do with something going on on TikTok or social media or something that I just feel like I need to be part of, so anyway, but I don't stay up to like one in the morning doing that. It would be like maybe 30 minutes or something, maybe an hour, but I've never really stayed. I know people that stay up to one, two in the morning just scrolling, and I'm like that needs to stop.

Therapist Jenn Schmitz:

So scrolling is going to scrolling needs to stop.

Dr. Teralyn Sell:

So if you can't do it, I don't use my phone for my alarm. I do have an, alexa, that I. I said that because I didn't want her to hear me. I'm not going to say your name, mine will go off too.

Dr. Teralyn Sell:

Yeah, anyway, I use that for my alarm. I don't use my phone. So I try not to use my phone for anything except charging in the bedroom and, like I said, I do get stuck on social media sometimes. So if you're trying to, if you know that your sleep is bad, like, these are some of the things that you need to stop doing, and you know, then I do the regular brush my teeth, go to the bathroom, put on my pajamas and go to bed, like so we all have natural things that we do. It's just a matter of identifying if they are good or serving us well or not, you know.

Therapist Jenn Schmitz:

And some people can. I have a lot of discussion when I talk sleep with people we talk about like electronics and the blue light that comes from electronics right and we will have a discussion about what that actually does when it goes through the eye. What centers of the brain right it activates to say, hey, guess what, it's not sleepy night time.

Therapist Jenn Schmitz:

Now for some people they can do that for a little bit and they are able to manage sleep Okay. For some they can't. So this has to be very individualized. I thought I had sleep dialed in, but I didn't until I started doing it differently. For me it turned into a routine that's often included, like taking a hot bath with, like some Epsom salts, which sometimes I do that, especially on like a Sunday night.

Dr. Teralyn Sell:

I do that on Sunday night because I get the Sunday night windups before Monday.

Therapist Jenn Schmitz:

Yes, the freaking Monday Sunday night already, so that's a great idea. Build that into your routine. Sit in the bath, put some Epsom salts in there. You can put a little essential oil in there. Epsom salt actually converts to magnesium when it disintegrates into the water. Guys, and magnesium is super helpful I mean not only for like 700 different functions of the body, but also to help.

Therapist Jenn Schmitz:

Slow it's going to slow. It's like it's your brake pedal. It's going to slow you guys down right. So make that part of your routine. I also use a lot of oils. Instead of like putting lotion on my body, I started to use really good, clean oil and I would have. I put body oil on and that smell right is triggering in my brain. Here we go, it's time to slow down, right, so I've got eucalyptus in there.

Dr. Teralyn Sell:

Well, I want to go back to like. I think most people tend to do a really good job of creating a sleep routine for their baby and their toddlers and things like that, which might include, like I remember putting lotion on the kids before I put their PJs on, and reading them a book and giving them their bottles and you know all these things. But we don't do the same thing for ourselves and I think that's a really good comparison reading them a book and giving them their bottles, and you know all these things, but we don't do the same thing for ourselves.

Therapist Jenn Schmitz:

Yeah, imagine that.

Dr. Teralyn Sell:

Yeah.

Therapist Jenn Schmitz:

That's a really good comparison, Terri.

Dr. Teralyn Sell:

Yeah, because I think that we do that a lot for our kids. But this is the plight of the mom, right, like we do a lot of things that are good for our kids that we don't do for ourselves. But if you think about that, you do that for a reason, so that they associate all these things with winding down and getting some rest, and we need to do the same thing for ourselves. So, yeah, the other thing I want to bring up with sleep is just two little things sugar before bed and alcohol before bed.

Therapist Jenn Schmitz:

I've got to go away. That's when I don't sleep is when I have a bowl of ice cream before bed. Okay, that's when I don't sleep well.

Dr. Teralyn Sell:

I can fall asleep. So here's what happens when you eat sugary things before bed. You'll be waking up at the middle of the night probably, or waking up too early. I call it getting a low level of sleep, because you never dive into deep sleep if you are hypoglycemic throughout the night. So instead opt for a protein snack. But alcohol before bed really destroys your sleep.

Therapist Jenn Schmitz:

You might think it doesn't. Well, that's because it helps you fall asleep. I sleep so good when I drink.

Dr. Teralyn Sell:

Yep, it helps you fall asleep. Yeah, but it disrupts every sleep cycle throughout the night and you're not rested. But it disrupts every sleep cycle throughout the night and you are not rested, which is not going to help your mental well-being in the morning or any of that day Overall guys.

Therapist Jenn Schmitz:

I mean, those two things are huge sugar and alcohol. Your body, essentially right, you're going to crash once that process is through your body, right? And when that happens, right, your adrenals are going to start to kick in.

Dr. Teralyn Sell:

Well, your adrenaline actually kicks off. Your adrenaline goes and now you're awake and your brain doesn't care if it's fucking two o'clock in the morning, it's going to wake you up.

Therapist Jenn Schmitz:

So for those of you who have those little smartwatches which I do not, because I'm an old soul in that, but I don't sleep- with electronics on my body, yeah, and it's a way to test it right. So I'll have clients that will do that and they will say to me I will eat like shit a couple nights in a row and it measures your sleep cycles. Try doing that without eating that. Eat a high-protein snack, have a bowl of cottage cheese or something before you go to bed Even a couple of bites, yeah.

Dr. Teralyn Sell:

Yeah, it's kind of a joke around my house, because it'll be like eight o'clock on a Saturday night and I'll look at Steve and I'll be like I'd really like some ice cream. Oh, let's go, let's go get some ice cream. Yeah, let's go get some ice cream. And then he'll look at me and he'll go are you sure, are you sure? And I'm like, no, I'm not sure, but I really want some. Then we'll go get it. And it's that moment where you go, I'm going to fuck up my sleep tonight, that's for damn sure. But you know what you're doing now. You consciously know what you're in for. And then you weigh the risk and the benefit suddenly and you're like, eh, let's just go get the ice cream.

Therapist Jenn Schmitz:

So then that moves us actually a little bit, because part of my sleep routine is also to do some meditation. So that kind of moves us into the next pillar as I might just transition us right into it which is looking at mindfulness, meditation exercises, things we can do to reduce stress, because you do not have to be Buddha, you do not have to be a yogi.

Dr. Teralyn Sell:

You do not have to be an expert in this to bring some like stress reduction or and or just basic mindfulness techniques. So this was brought up as a conversation that I had this week too, of somebody who didn't want to meditate because they felt it was against their religious beliefs. And I'm like, well, you can sit and you could do some deep breathing which is meditative, and even meditation like I learned to meditate with Buddhist monks. Long story not going to get into it, but anyway, it wasn't anything that I thought it was going to be Okay, it wasn't.

Dr. Teralyn Sell:

There was a little bit of ritual in the beginning and the end which I don't do was just learning how to breathe and sit and learning how to control your thoughts. Literally, when your thought goes away, you bring it back to the breath and to the counting of the breath. That was it, and I'm ridiculous. I'm like this is easy peasy. So I went up to them later. I'm like well, so what's the next step? What's the next thing that I'm supposed to be learning here? And they looked at me and they said people practice this for a lifetime and I was like God damn it.

Dr. Teralyn Sell:

I wanted the certificate. I wanted to be done.

Therapist Jenn Schmitz:

Where's Susie Amendola here when we need her to go? Damn it, terry Come on?

Dr. Teralyn Sell:

Exactly Right. But meditation seems easy. It's not as easy as you think. Some people like guided meditation. I don't like that, because I've got enough going on in my brain so I prefer to just guide myself and just do the breathing and the counting, and for me that works. Again, this is one of those things what works for you, and it doesn't have to be a spiritually based thing, but it can be.

Therapist Jenn Schmitz:

It absolutely can be. For some people it is. It absolutely can be. For some people it is. Add prayer in there.

Dr. Teralyn Sell:

Add affirmation, add whatever you want or don't.

Therapist Jenn Schmitz:

Part of my nighttime routine for me most evenings is doing a body scan and I will meditate my way all the way through the top of my head, in each of the areas of my body and I make sure that I will loosen and relax each area from the top all the way down. It used to be I had to go from the bottom up and the top down.

Therapist Jenn Schmitz:

Right Now I don't have to do both because I've gotten to a space where, by the time I go from the top all the way down, I get down to like my calves and I'm good right. But this is also part of something you can do during the day, guys. If you have a few minutes, you can meditate or you can do a mindfulness type of activity, something as simple as going outside and taking off your shoes and feeling what the grass feels like underneath your feet and sitting for a couple minutes and noticing it, looking around in your backyard that you've been looking at for 20 years and noticing something you've never noticed before, and in letting yourself sit in it. There is conscious meditation for people who are, or mindfulness for people who are learning the basics of it. It's really just about paying attention in a very particular way and then starting to notice your breath and to listen to the body. So it doesn't have to be. I've got to have an hour and I've got to go sit down. I've got to have that.

Dr. Teralyn Sell:

Literally, five to seven minutes will trigger your nervous system that you're not in fight or flight anymore. That's it Like five to seven minutes of this type of breathing and slowing down. And the other thing that people, I can't meditate because I can't shut my brain off. That's not what it's about either. So you can get rid of a lot of the things that you think about meditation to not be true and go ahead and figure out what works for you. So meditation, I think it's really important. My mentor, dan Kalish, when he was talking about meditation, he meditates for hours every single day and I was like how, what? How do you even have time to? Plus, he cycles and does all this other stuff and I'm like that's all he does, is self-care all day. I think I don't know, but I don't know how he does all that.

Therapist Jenn Schmitz:

But I'm like I struggled to get five minutes, can you imagine how much gray matter is in that man's brain?

Dr. Teralyn Sell:

Oh yeah, I don't know.

Therapist Jenn Schmitz:

It's so heavy.

Dr. Teralyn Sell:

It's probably like yeah, he probably has to hold it up with a sling or something, I don't know, but that's what we're doing.

Therapist Jenn Schmitz:

We're doing, guys, is we are using. We are using mindful awareness, right Meditation to strengthen these neural connections, to create more gray matter in the brain and the kind of shitty part it's shitty. I just had a very long discussion with one of my clients this week about this is the unfortunate part of psychiatric medications, and specifically some other than others more so is that they are reducing the gray matter in your brain, which is why there are research links now and that shows that their dementia is linked to long-term antidepressant use. This is the why. Okay, so how do I counter this? How do I bring something back into play? This is actually a technique that costs no money, that uses very little resources other than your time, and you're trying to figure out the best that works for you.

Dr. Teralyn Sell:

You don't even need anything fancy to wear.

Therapist Jenn Schmitz:

No, you do not need any of that stuff. That all is going to be something that's going to help you with this taper, in getting through it, because it is very likely that some of, depending on how long you've been on these drugs, that gray matter is depleted and we know that mindfulness and our next pillar, which is going to be movement. Those are two things that create gray matter in the brain over time.

Dr. Teralyn Sell:

So we're going to move on to movement.

Therapist Jenn Schmitz:

Look at my transitions today.

Dr. Teralyn Sell:

That was great, that was fantastic. You're on point today. Jen what happens when you don't write shit down, people. That's right, that's right. So movement is the next pillar, and I call it movement because I hate exercise. The word exercise implies that you have to go somewhere. I feel like we live in this weird world that the only exercise that counts is if you go to a gym of some sort.

Therapist Jenn Schmitz:

I know I was in that world many, many years. Me too, I used to Just why my adrenals were fucked Right Exactly.

Dr. Teralyn Sell:

Well, that's that's. This is a really good conversation, because you know the HIIT workouts and all those things when you're in a med taper are not going to serve you very well at all.

Therapist Jenn Schmitz:

As a matter of fact, they're going to make this probably harder, can you talk a little bit about that science, terry, like with people, just give a little snippet on what's actually happening when you're doing the HIIT, when you're doing the CrossFit, when you're doing the super heavy, heavy, high intensity workout.

Dr. Teralyn Sell:

You're engaging all your stress hormones Like you're engaging all of that, You're firing all of that. So if you were to look at like we'll go back to Jen's cortisol curve that she was talking about before you were doing HIIT and all of that stuff, I was HIIT CrossFit.

Therapist Jenn Schmitz:

I was a CrossFitter multiple times a week half marathons.

Dr. Teralyn Sell:

Well, even back in the day, when I was training for half marathons over and over and over and over, I would never stop not training. It was constant and I didn't feel great. But everyone said this is what you're supposed to do to feel good. But when you're stressing your body and you're stressing your brain, doing all of those heavy hitting, hardcore workouts, you are not restoring anything. You're constantly just in stress. What do you have?

Therapist Jenn Schmitz:

Oh, her cortisol graph yeah.

Dr. Teralyn Sell:

So if you guys get to look at this on YouTube. So she's showing her cortisol graph. The curve should be in green. So green would be typical normal curve. Her green is lower. It's a curve. You got a little bit of curve, but it's in the blue category, which is a low curve, hedging on flat actually.

Therapist Jenn Schmitz:

Yeah, this is where we started.

Dr. Teralyn Sell:

When you wake up in the morning, your cortisol is supposed to be the highest. When you go to bed, it's supposed to be the lowest. So, conversely, when you wake up in the morning, your melatonin is supposed to be the lowest, while your cortisol is the highest to get you to wake up, and in the evening your melatonin is supposed to be the highest and cortisol the lowest. A lot of people have this curve almost backward, and so sometimes the cortisol pops up in the evening. So that's another thing to think about too. So if you're doing your CrossFit or whatever after work at 5 pm, you're firing your cortisol, making it so it's harder for you to sleep and things like that after work. So the wind down period for you, so it's just while you're in this process of recovering your brain. That's why the word movement is different, because it is slower, it is walking, it is yoga, it is restorative things. Um, it's not running 10 miles a day, you know, it's not crossfitting all the time.

Therapist Jenn Schmitz:

It's hard right Like. That was probably some of the most difficult advice I received, um when we, when we, went through this.

Dr. Teralyn Sell:

I was pissed.

Therapist Jenn Schmitz:

I was like you think I am going to cut out caffeine and I am going to stop working out. I don't think so bitch Like. That was like okay, but over time, right, I started to do it and I started to do it slowly and I noticed a huge difference because I was I, you know, you're reducing adrenal fatigue guys, Um, especially if this is something that you do a lot of Um and I will guarantee you that pretty much if we were to run cortisol curves on anybody that comes, I have never seen a perfect cortisol curve yet.

Therapist Jenn Schmitz:

Yeah, like somebody had done mine now cause I'm feeling like you know it might be better. It feels really good now but my curve sucked ass.

Dr. Teralyn Sell:

It was horrible.

Therapist Jenn Schmitz:

Like I don't, I look at it and I'm like look at all the low, low, low, low, low low. Oh, there's a big red arrow Shit, what's?

Dr. Teralyn Sell:

happening. It was really interesting. There was a physician on TikTok and he was talking about mental health medication and he said I'm physically fit, he ran ultra marathons, right, so he was an ultra marathoner and all these things and he goes, but I was depressed so it was okay that I went on medication. I'm thinking, dude, it's the ultra marathoning Like you're, you are stressing yourself out, your cortisol is terrible, Not to mention you know the life of of a physician you know is hard enough. Then you do all that. That appears to be healthy, right, and you're a healthy weight and you're eating right, and you're doing all these things, but you're really just taxing your body even further.

Therapist Jenn Schmitz:

So, yeah, yeah, so so I think the idea, the, the, the idea of what does movement look like? Okay, and that pillar, I had to redefine that right. For me, movement was going to the gym multiple times a week, like I said I was doing CrossFit. I'm running a lot Like even if I wasn't training for something. I'm running, you know, four or five miles every single day and how does that actually work against the body versus bringing in what you said I think is a really great viewpoint the word restorative. What does restorative movement look like? Could it be some form of an exercise?

Dr. Teralyn Sell:

Well, sure, what does restorative movement look like? Could it be some form of an exercise? Well, sure, but walking counts, yoga counts, stretching counts.

Therapist Jenn Schmitz:

Deep breathing counts Like going outside. All the walking, like I think about all the walking I did before I had this job, where I still a lot, which sucks I hate that about this, right. So that's where I had to switch some things. But all the walking I did, yeah, miles a day across institutions.

Dr. Teralyn Sell:

Oh yeah, you did yeah.

Therapist Jenn Schmitz:

Spread out for years and years. You know, to go from one end of the prison to the other end of the prison, it's at least a half a mile walk, you know. And just all the movement, right, that's movement. Guys, going for a walk in the evenings for 30 minutes, 20, 30 minutes, taking your dog for a walk, like that is movement. This all counts. So this is where all that like, we are getting the cardiovascular health part of this moving just by moving our bodies. So it doesn't have to be. I'm a gym rat and, in fact, for those of you who are looking to do a taper and you are what we're calling a gym rat, right, that's what I was a fucking gym rat. I would really give some consideration to that and what it might be actually doing to your adrenals, because you're kicking out a ton of adrenaline.

Dr. Teralyn Sell:

All the time.

Therapist Jenn Schmitz:

All the time and consider what time of the day you work out too, guys. That is important.

Dr. Teralyn Sell:

Well, and I think about, I tend to find the more organic times and things that you can do throughout the day that are movement related. So if you're working at a desk job like I've got guys that do pushups and sit-ups and things like that on the hour, every hour they're doing these things. So I also had somebody who was a horseback rider and we were talking about movement and I didn't know they were a horseback rider because they were complaining that they didn't go to the gym and I was like well, what else do you do? Well, I just ride horses. How often do you ride horses? Well, a couple hours a day. And I was like that's enough.

Therapist Jenn Schmitz:

That's actually extremely taxing on the body.

Dr. Teralyn Sell:

Yes, exactly, but because it wasn't in a gym. I'm not doing things in a gym it doesn't fit the narrative. It wasn't enough. So it's just interesting.

Dr. Teralyn Sell:

So I think movement and a lot of people just don't move at all. So I just like to walk now. I walk with my dog, linus, all the time, but I think a lot of people just don't move at all. So the key is to just do something. And if you're waiting for the motivation fairy to visit you, she's not visiting you. She doesn't visit me either and she's a real bitch about that.

Therapist Jenn Schmitz:

She'll come on January 1st and do her little bitch trickery for 13 days and then it's done. And then it's done, and then you give up on the 13th of January.

Dr. Teralyn Sell:

Because it's like swimsuit season coming up and then you're like oh no, but anyway so yes, and then she's done, then she's gone.

Therapist Jenn Schmitz:

We're not talking diet culture here, guys. We are doing everything in the opposite realm of that. I've got a few people who do jobs like we do and we sit a lot during the day and they went and got themselves those nice little walking things that go right under their desk.

Dr. Teralyn Sell:

Oh, yeah, the walking pad. Yeah, I wish I could do that, but I think it would be weird for me to walk while I'm talking.

Therapist Jenn Schmitz:

I actually asked one of my clients about it one day I was like kind of just pretend walking and I'm like does this look weird?

Dr. Teralyn Sell:

Like does it distracting, Like if I did this for 20 minutes, would it be okay with you?

Therapist Jenn Schmitz:

Cause I yeah, they were like it's fine, dad, but honestly, I think one of the things the home run hit to this is exercise is we are putting the word movement on it, and it's about bringing more movement into your day, even if it's for five or 10 minutes during the day. There's a reason that there's so much science behind employers now that are trying to do better ergonomic things for their people when they're working. Trying to give guess what. You have to go take a 10 minute break. There's a reason for that. Take advantage of it, because this does make a really big difference. It's a lifestyle, remember. So we're starting to bring into our brain that there are things other than going to the gym for 90 minutes that are part of our lifestyle, that are going to be healthy and helpful, and it's so much more doable. It's so much more doable, so I think that that's maybe the home run ticket to the movement is so many things. So stop classifying it as I've got to go to the gym for 90 minutes.

Dr. Teralyn Sell:

It's only this one thing. It's only the one thing. Yes.

Therapist Jenn Schmitz:

Yeah.

Dr. Teralyn Sell:

All right. Well, I think that that is a good wrap up for today. The before you taper. There's a. There's a few more nuggets in there, but I think we're running out of time, so we're going to have to stick that in part two that I wanted to talk about. So that is the 30-day warmup to your medication taper by the book. Here it is 30, 90.

Therapist Jenn Schmitz:

She meant to say 90, but she's just so excited about her book. It's our 90-day warmup.

Dr. Teralyn Sell:

Oh, I'm sorry, Did I say 30 before? Again, you did, but it's fine.

Therapist Jenn Schmitz:

90 days Numbers are tough, it's okay.

Dr. Teralyn Sell:

The three-month warmup. Sorry about that, guys. By the book by the book, you'll appreciate it and make sure you turn it into part two, when we're going to talk about our best tips for a successful taper, when you're actually in your taper. All right, well, if you've hung out with us so far, this has been the Gaslit Truth Podcast. Please like, share, comment, subscribe and send us your gaslit truth at thegaslittruthpodcast at gmailcom.

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Dr. Teralyn

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Jennifer Schmitz

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Dr. Teralyn

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Jennifer Schmitz

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