My Doctor Was My Dealer: A Healthcare Worker's Descent Into Benzo Dependency

"They told me Ativan would be a part of my life for the rest of my life. Well, they were right—but not in the way they thought it would."

Meet Luanne Wall—registered nurse with 41 years of critical care experience, wife, mother, grandmother, and survivor of benzodiazepine dependency. When pandemic stress, family illness, and mounting anxiety led her to seek help from her doctor in 2021, she received a prescription for Ativan to be taken three times daily. What followed was a descent into dependency that would affect not only her life but her daughter's and infant grandson's as well.

In this raw, unfiltered conversation, Luanne reveals the brutal reality of prescription benzodiazepine use that most doctors won't acknowledge. From experiencing severe interdose withdrawal despite taking the medication exactly as prescribed, to being told she "wouldn't become addicted" because she "didn't have an addictive personality," her story exposes the dangerous misconceptions perpetuated by medical professionals about these powerful drugs.

Most compelling is Luanne's refusal to distinguish between her experience and that of street drug users. "If I'm an addict, what does that make you?" she challenges her prescribing doctor. Her insight that "street dealers know they're not smarter than the drug they're dealing" while doctors believe they can outsmart these substances cuts to the heart of our broken approach to prescribed medications. After finding salvation through the Ashton Manual and completing a grueling seven-month taper, Luanne now lives with the permanent consequences of her prescribed dependency—tremor

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Chapters

• 0:22 Intro to Lulu's Benzo Story
• 10:13 The Beginning: 2020 Crisis and First Prescription
• 18:21 Doctor Dope and Medical Gaslighting
• 27:11 Withdrawal Hell Begins
• 35:34 The Ashton Manual Salvation
• 43:02 Recovery and Lasting Damage
• 51:18 Breaking Stigma: "We're All in This Together"
• 59:31 Final Thoughts and Episode Wrap

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:02

you've been gaslit into believing that benzos will save your life and you'll need them forever to function as a human. We are your deep-throating informants dr tara lynn and therapist jen, and this is the gaslit truth podcast. Today we have a consumer story and special guest, luanne wall, or lulu as her friends call her. We're her friends, so we're going to start calling her Lulu, wife, mom, mimi, rn, old deadhead benzo survivor and this is her story and we are so happy that she's here bringing the fire today. Welcome, lulu, oh man, you guys.

Speaker 2: 0:37

I said I feel like you're my sisters. You are my sisters from a different mother, so how does that work?

Speaker 3: 0:44

That's fine. That that's it. That's it. That's all you gotta know.

Speaker 2: 0:48

so are we ready to go because we're gonna go now, we're gonna go, you're gonna go. That this is, this is a whole deal and I've said this. The amount of suffering of your guests has been you know, people lost their jobs, people that have been mocked and ridiculed, it's all. You know all gaslighting, people who have stroked, people who have and you'll hear my story been in such severe withdrawal that they couldn't get out of bed, their hair dreadlocked, they walked their feet bloody from anesthesia, people who have gone through experimental treatments. It is shocking, but we both, we all know, we all know the main culprit here. There's a. It's a medical industrial complex and we have been gaslit because when you go to appointments, these guys are reading a script. I believe that, with all my heart. The script comes from the insurance companies, the script comes from whoever whatever you know drug rep or drug dealer, as I refer to him now is sitting out in the lobby that brings him a script.

Speaker 2: 2:03

They're reading studies and the horrendous thing and I saw yesterday, there's another study that's come out about aluminum in certain injectable medications. Shall we say, I have to be careful on YouTube. I know what I say here and we have studies that have proven how dangerous some of this stuff is, but not in the US. Our studies are very limited. People need to know that that some of these drugs, including Xanax, were on such a short trial that they don't know how bad the withdrawal is. And I can't speak to the RIs. I can't speak to SSRIs. Praise God Almighty. Speak to the RIs. I can't speak to SSRIs. Praise God Almighty. Although Dr Dope who is we're going to refer to my doctor, that got me on the benzo from here on out. As Dr Dope, he pushed with both feet to get me to transition to yet more drugs. It's poly drugging is what it is Right, but you said no, oh no At that point.

Speaker 3: 3:06

So for you this story is heavily rooted in benzos.

Speaker 2: 3:10

Oh, it's benzo. All the way, baby.

Speaker 3: 3:12

And the SSRIs or the RIs were being brought into the picture, but you didn't do it. So, here.

Speaker 2: 3:19

I'll tell you the story because you got to hear the story, and first of all, you need to know I've been a nurse 41 years. My background was all critical care nursing, and that included transport, which is I don't know if you guys are familiar, but a transport nurse of course, picks up people from either the side of the road or ICUs, ers. It's very, very high level nursing. It's very stressful nursing. Icus, ers it's very, very high level nursing. It's very stressful nursing. And I did that for a company that used air fixed wing rotor and mobile ICU. So I'm just saying this I'm not some lightweight as far as stress goes, and so I'd never taken anything as far as never. And so here's the deal 2020 rolls around and it's death, which was not from the Wuhan plague. My dad then later died.

Speaker 2: 4:32

My husband was working as a CT tech and literally doing thousands of scans not thousands of patients, but thousands of scans on people who were coming through, and we didn't know at that time how bad this was going to be, how contagious this was going to be, how much. You know how, if I didn't know if my husband was going to get sick and what was going to happen, my daughter was pregnant at the time and having a lot of problems. This was the fourth baby and she was very, very, very afraid, hearing all kinds of stories about you're going to have your baby taken away from you, you're going to you know all kinds of nightmarish stories. So her anxiety levels climbing and climbing and I've got all this going on and trying to hold all this together by January 2021,. I knew that I was going off the rails. So I call my doctor, which was a mistake number. It was a big mistake.

Speaker 2: 5:35

Man Call my doctor and the long story short is he prescribes Ativan and he never saw me and the entire time I was on the Ativan you need to hear this he was a man in the box. The only way I ever talked to that man was like we're talking today. He had a therapist, who from here on out will be called Crystal Ball, who worked there in his office, who never saw me in person. Same thing was the woman in the box. So once a month he would talk to me to see how I was doing after he wrote the script I was prescribed. Now let me dispel another myth. I understand if you are on a benzo and you are squatting on that benzo for you know, 10, 20 years. I don't know how people do it and I've met them. I mean, one of my mom's dear friends when I was growing up was a Valium addict. There is no doubt because women of that generation all got put on Valium mother's little helper.

Speaker 2: 6:46

Yes, to help them through their postpartum period, and they never, never got off. And now, looking back at her, that woman was in constant withdrawal. I know what her problems were and I loved her. I mean, she was a dear friend of ours. This has nothing to do with the personhood, and that's what people also need to get past. We're not defined by a drug, and here's the deal. So he puts me on, I'm on Ativan, but here's where I made a mistake. I took the Ativan three times a day. Three times a day, do you hear?

Speaker 3: 7:23

what I'm saying.

Speaker 2: 7:25

So, as prescribed, I never want one over the dose and here's the deal.

Speaker 2: 7:30

Here's the dirty little secret about these benzos oh, you have to be on them for years for them to buy. Oh, this is. You know, you don't have. Here's the gaslighting. You don't have an addictive personality. Now, this is from a man who would see me 10 minutes a year, maybe for a wellness check, and he thinks he knows what my personality is, which that's all a bunch of malarkey too. You don't have a. You don't have a, a, a personality. You know an addictive personality, so you won't get addicted to this.

Speaker 2: 8:02

And here's the other gas lighting. He told me, when it comes time to come off, I'll let you know and help you get off it. He told me that out of van would be a part of my life for the rest of my life. I'm telling you righteous, honest, god's truth of things. I was told well, I have to tell you he was right that it will be a part of my life for the rest of my life, but not in the way he thought it would. So he told me it would always be in my medicine cabinet Well, I don't even have a medicine cabinet, but that it would always be there. So, long story short, beginning in January 2021. And let me tell you, girls, these people think they're smarter than the drug they're dealing. That's where these dope dealing doctors are different than the street dealers. Those street dealers know they're not smarter than the drug they're dealing. That's where these dope dealing doctors are different than the street dealers. Those street dealers know they're not smarter than the drug they're dealing.

Speaker 3: 9:21

Oh, that's such a good point. That is they don't.

Speaker 2: 9:24

They know they're not smaller, smarter than that dope. They know it can't kill you. And let me tell you another dirty little secret Street addicts are afraid of benzos. For the most part they are. They know that the withdrawal is horrible. They know that they are. It is a. It's not what they're seeking, believe me. But I got to tell you after I took the very first, the very first 0.5 out of van. I liked it. I liked the way it made me feel. I liked it.

Speaker 2: 9:54

All these problems I was dealing with suddenly went away because what I would do and I'm being righteously serious here with you I would take it and then I would just start taking off the time because in my mind I knew I could take it three times a day. I was basically taking around the clock, so I would take off the time till I could take the next, then the next. And I have to tell you right now I started having, nearly from the very beginning, interdose withdrawal. People are going to tell you you know these doctors, gaslight, these people. Oh well, you know, if you take it as we prescribe it, this won't happen. That's BS. How does it not happen? Your body doesn't know whether you're taking it as they prescribe it, or whether you're taking it your body doesn't know. So here I am, I'm taking it, which was, you know, three times a day. Now I know, I know that I've got a problem. I do know that I knew it pretty, pretty early on, but things were not improving in the situation around me. Here's the deal. Maybe people don't need a drug. Maybe they need their situation to change. Maybe that's where it all goes down, isn't that? Isn't, doesn't that take a lot of thinking to say that I didn't need a drug, I needed the situation to change.

Speaker 2: 11:22

Meanwhile, my husband's life is circling the drain because he isn't going to take the 46 and 2. Do you know what the 46 and 2 is? That's a gene therapy. I will not refer to it as a you know, because you guys may be deplatformed if I do. We called it the 46 and 2. And as therapists, as psychologists, you're going to know what I'm talking about. The 46 and 2 is a phrase used. It's the 44 and two human chromosomes, plus two to perfect the human being. And I believe it wasn't Freud who dealt really deeply into that, but there was one who dealt really deeply into that, young, I think it was that dealt very deeply into that. Young, I think it was that dealt very deeply into that. So, moving quickly on, we refer to that as the 46 and 2 gene therapy.

Speaker 2: 12:23

You know, neither of us took it. My husband was not going to take it, so therefore his job was put in jeopardy. Therefore, they didn't just fire him, they abused him. They didn't just change his hours, they changed his whole shift, took his shift diff. And this is in the midst of us trying to buy a house and move. So we had been approved for a loan based on what he was making before.

Speaker 2: 12:45

I'm telling you guys this because I ticked off every box for a stressor, every one of them Death, you know, financial problems, problems, my daughter pregnant okay, it gets better here. So I'm still taking. Now I'm now I'm doing out of hand three times a day. Comes november, my daughter has the baby, I'm helping out taking care of the little boys. Now I gotta tell you that, like I said, these guys think they're smarter than a drug. That drug is to only be used for two to four weeks max at the lowest possible dose. That's it. These guys think they're smarter than that.

Speaker 2: 13:26

So here I am, I'm all hooked up on Ativan. I'm watching these boys and I have to tell you my daughter had Linus, then the little the youngest, and her anxiety was through the roof over everything. And guess what happened? She ended up on Ativan too. I knew you were gonna say that now she's nursing a baby, and guess who else is on Ativan? And they lied. You want to hear the biggest gaslit bullshit of all this. They told her it didn't. There wasn't enough going to pass through the breast milk to affect the baby.

Speaker 3: 14:01

Oh, that lie is still happening. That is just present, right now too.

Speaker 2: 14:07

Does that not boil your oil?

Speaker 1: 14:08

to hear that, oh yeah.

Speaker 2: 14:11

And let me ask you guys something have you ever heard and I'm sure you have have you ever heard an addicted baby's cry? When I heard that baby crying? Because of course I've worked, that's all I've worked was critical care. I worked in the NICU. I worked. I know how an addicted baby sounds.

Speaker 3: 14:24

Oh, they're just colicky, lulu, they're just colicky.

Speaker 2: 14:27

Sure they are. They howl, they have a ple through withdrawal, kind of like the one my daughter had when she was going through withdrawal. They begged. You hear it? It's a pleading, howling, continual cry. So there he is. Now we're this is going into. Now, we're into. This is 2021. Now we go into 2022. I haven't even told you about crystal ball. So the therapist this is great.

Speaker 2: 15:01

I never really knew why I was talking to her. I never really did know what I was supposed to talk about with her. And I hear in the background my husband yelling so she could make money. And that is the absolute truth, because they had quite the racket going. You think about that. He's getting paid from the insurance and so is she, and it's both under the same umbrella here. So it comes, and you know I would do the thing with her.

Speaker 2: 15:25

I had to talk to her every two weeks, and at first it was every week, then every two weeks, and she would tell me things. This will be the end of you guys, because I gotta tell you, by then I was so hooked up and so just uh, strung out and she talked to me about meditating and going to your happy place, and you know what I was thinking in my mind. I went to my happy place an hour before you and I started talking. So I'm already in. Yeah, I'm already in. Yeah, I'm already in my happy place. I'm in my happy place all the time now. Problem is she.

Speaker 2: 15:58

Finally, it got to the point toward the end of 2021. Let me say this where I said to her at one point you know what I'm getting worried that I'm getting addicted to this I said I think I got a problem. Do you want to know what she told me? You guys are going to fall out of your chairs, so I hope you put your seatbelts on. She told me that if I didn't want to be an addict, I wouldn't be one. I said to her well, sure, I want to live on the street in a box and eat cat food. Wait, jen, are you okay? If you don't want to be an addict, you won't be one. It's power of mind here, and he told me that atomy causes a little psychological dependence. I'm going to tell you what the withdrawal is like, because I know you had Nicole on your show and she is a righteous person. Power to Nicole. I want to tell you what Wardrobe change.

Speaker 3: 16:54

White coats coming out right now. Keep right, keep going, Lolo.

Speaker 2: 16:58

So she told me if I didn't want to be an addict, I wouldn't be one. So I decided of course I do, and I even told her this. I told you what I told her I'm going to live on a street in a cardboard box and eat cat food. Of course I want to be an addict. Doesn't everyone want to get addicted to something? So I'm like this is hopeless with her. I know this is hopeless. She isn't even hearing what I'm saying.

Speaker 2: 17:20

I remember when she asked me, too, how long I had been catastrophizing. Have you heard the things that are going on in my life right now? I mean during this period of time. But you want to know what was precious when her husband got the Wuhan plague in November 2021. And she was out of her mind, and I am not that kind of person that would have said it, but you know it passed through my mean mind. How long have you been catastrophizing? You know what? When your loved one is dying, it don't get much worse than that. So we move into 2022. Now it's January. They quit taking our insurance, so guess what?

Speaker 1: 18:02

Oh, here we go.

Speaker 2: 18:04

I'm getting dropped. I'm getting dropped and then he tells me we need to start talking about an SSRI and I went nuts. Of course it was real easy for me to go nuts then because my on-edgedness was through the roof. My husband would tell you that. And then I was very blunted, though, to things that mattered, like my grandson cut his hand really severely, the six-year-old, and I remember he was bleeding real, real bad, and I just remember I was like, well, you know, this is a pain in the ass, and I mean I was so blunted, just shut down and blunted to things that I should have cared about.

Speaker 2: 18:49

But I want to tell you, girls, I thought about getting that dope 24-7. I drove one time when they had put out tornado warnings. I was going to the pharmacy which I called my supplier and you're going to love this. The pharmacy where I picked up my dope was also a state store. Do you know what that is? They sold all kinds of liquor in there and I thought, you know, know, sometimes I'd be sitting in a line of all the people you know going to get their 46 and 2 and I was like, man, I should just shelve the dope and go in there and get a bottle of party white and it's like you know this whole thing, my mind had gone nuts, I was gone completely off the rails. So he would prescribe them for me. 90, check this out 90 pills at a time, 90 at a time.

Speaker 1: 19:41

You have the big jug. That's how many?

Speaker 2: 19:43

refills. Oh man, I'd have got the biggest jug I could have got. But here's where it was going. And I knew that because, see, it was like the angel on one shoulder, the devil on the other, and the devil's like who cares. The angel says this guy's going to cut you off. And then, because this is not psychological dependence, this is bad physical dependence, and I'm like, where am I going to go? Then you have one choice you go the street, you do. I'm telling you the righteous truth there was a time where four out of five heroin addicts had been created by their doctor. So I'm like thinking this is a bad, bad situation. So crystal ball is out of the picture, it was totally worthless anyway. And I remember, well, I'm going to go here then. So I'm, he's pushing an RI and I'm like I'm not starting an SSR, I'm not starting any more drugs. And then I said it for the first time. I said I want off this one and he told me I wasn't ready. So I love that.

Speaker 3: 20:41

I love that. Here we go. You're not addicted enough.

Speaker 2: 20:46

Yeah, I'm. I'm having all kinds of bad thoughts, man, that you don't want to know what they are and I never you know what.

Speaker 3: 20:53

Don't share that shit.

Speaker 2: 20:55

I would have said anything to get the drug at that point. I would have said anything to get it at that point. I was so beyond desperate. Now my daughter's hooked up, now my grand little baby is in trouble and I'm like this has spiraled completely out of control. Totally out of control. Come march a doctor opened a practice. I don't know if you know what dpc is, it's direct primary care, no insurance. You pay them a fee, yep.

Speaker 2: 21:24

So I went and talked to the guy now I gotta tell you he's as benzo dumb as the day is long but he said he would write for me. Now he's looking at me like I'm a major junkhead and I probably was at that point. He's looking at me like I think she's gonna be a problem. But I said I want off. And he said, well, if you want off. So he said I'll write for you. But this guy's plan, are you ready? You would, every seven to 10 days, cut it and cut your dose in half. And so I'm like, oh well, maybe I'll try that. And that is where the bottom fell out. So the first cut I did and remember I'm taking three times a day the first cut I did was on what I call my night dose and I cut it in half and let me describe to you how it goes in, Because I was already in severe interdose withdrawal. My stomach, because you know you've got a ton of GABA receptors in your gut. Most of your GABA receptors are in your gut, not your brain, and I'm like my gut is in a tirade all the time. So I mean, at that point I was in bad shape and I did that first cut and let me describe to you I've never had anything like this happen in my life.

Speaker 2: 22:45

Middle of the night the room starts spinning like you're on a merry-go-round. It's not benign positional vertigo, which is what he told me it was, and you know I'd had some business during my pregnancy, during menopause. I know what that feels like. You know, when you're like, oh, I looked up too fast. Or you know it's just a little disquilibrated, no, no, no Benzo withdrawal. The whole room is spinning, spinning like a merry-go-round, and I try to stand, so I go over and just kind of sink down. We got a bench at the foot of the bed. I just sink down on it and I'm like, oh God help me, Because I didn't know if it was going to stop and eventually it started slowing and I get to the bathroom and I get back and I tell my husband this is bad man, this is really, really bad.

Speaker 2: 23:41

And the next day I call who? I called Dr Dummy because he was so benzo illiterate. He didn't call me back for three days and by then I was in severe withdrawal. I mean, my skin was crawling, I was itching all over my head, Felt like it was just my head, felt like someone had dumped fire ants on the top of my head. I was sick to my stomach, horrible sick I could barely stand. I was dope sick. That's what it is. It's dope sickness.

Speaker 1: 24:12

Sick, that's what it is.

Speaker 2: 24:13

It's dope sickness Cause it's huge Was this just from the I shouldn't say just was this from the?

Speaker 1: 24:20

milligram. The first evening all of this was just from the first evening.

Speaker 2: 24:23

cut First cut 0.25 down and you got to remember. Now I've been taking this three times a day for 15 months. My body is like, uh, I'm not having any of this, I want it back right now. But I stuck it out 10 days but I'm like I'm not doing another cut. I'm not doing it now Things. I'm continuing to see him but I'm like I don't know what I'm going to do because I got to get off this. So now we're into May and it's just getting things.

Speaker 2: 25:05

I'm starting to feel real desperate and I one afternoon my husband was at work and he works nights. Now he works like mid shift and late shift, and so he's gone a lot. And I was out and I remember sinking down in a garage and I was out there and I thought you know what this is hopeless. I can't go on like this. I'm dying. And I knew. I knew I was going to die, I knew I had to get off of it and I just like fell to my knees and started weeping. God help me, god help me.

Speaker 2: 25:39

I found the Ashton manual and I will tell you this right now it saved my life. Heather Ashton saved my life. Had I not found that manual, I would be dead right now because I'm going to tell you this I would have had to get something because I was so, so dope sick and so far gone. And you know, if they're not going to prescribe and you know Dr Ashton herself says no one should ever be forced off of Benzo You've got to want to get off it.

Speaker 2: 26:14

So I was very afraid to read her manual at first and my husband really helped me and he said this is, you're in withdrawal, you're in bad withdrawal. So we started. The only thing Dr Dummy did was wrote the script and my husband was, as I call him, my dope cutter. I can still see him sitting at the table. I did not sidestep to anything. I did cut and hold straight off out of van. I used the three times a day which she usually put her people. She divided that dose into three anyway and I started cutting it, which the first cut is what got me in a lot of trouble and I know that I think I would have done a lot better had I read the manual first, because then I did it by 0.25.

Speaker 3: 27:03

Just that 0.25 in the evening, right, that one was too much.

Speaker 2: 27:06

Way too much. It set me into a complete collapse. But I tell you I took it down to 0.125. And then what I would do is like if I would cut, you know, 0.125 from that night dose, you know, cut that 0.25 and a half again, because, see, you've got to remember what the volume equivalent is. Ativan is 10 times stronger than Valium At least 10 times stronger. Xanax is at least 20 times stronger. These are really souped up drugs.

Speaker 2: 27:37

Klonopin I call Klonopin the heroin of benzos. That is a mighty, mighty drug. I mean these are powerful, the three sisters atavans, xanax and Klonopin. And let me tell you I don't call it lorazepam. And let me tell you why don't call it lorazepam. And let me tell you why we need to call it by its name. Call it by its name.

Speaker 2: 27:57

You say diazepam, people are like reminds me the line from jaws. You say barracuda, people are like huh, what? You say shark? You got yourself a panic on your hands. You say livan, people go. Oh, yeah, okay, semantics, there you go. We need to call it by its name.

Speaker 2: 28:21

Do not play the game with these guys. They want to do their lorazepam, diazepam, tenazepam. They want to play the game. I don't play any games with anyone. I will tell you these are deadly-ass drugs and they will kill you. And street junkies know they will kill you. A lot of them are afraid of benzos. I talked to one who said he took one dose of Xanax and thought he was going to die. I've learned a lot from this. I've learned a lot from this that, as a nurse, I did not know how how serious this is. I started cutting, I started doing the Ashton manual and I started doing my cut. I still came off way too fast, I can tell you this, because this was in 2022. And I started that manual around getting doing the serious, you know, three time a day and doing the smaller cuts in July and my last day, as she would say, you jumped off. It was December 17th 2022. So it was pretty darn fast.

Speaker 3: 29:24

Five months, is that what you said? So it was about five months or so it was about seven, including Dr Dummy's cut. Oh, okay, oh yeah, that's right Okay.

Speaker 2: 29:31

Yeah, including Dr Dummy's cut. Oh okay, oh yeah, that's right. Okay, yeah, including Dr Dummy's cut.

Speaker 3: 29:34

So seven months from start to finish.

Speaker 2: 29:37

From start to finish and the total you were on the drug was how many years. Well, two years Totally. If you include that, it would be two years total.

Speaker 1: 29:44

That's the fascinating part to me.

Speaker 2: 29:46

So for people who think this only happens in long-term use, no, I don't believe that Dr Huff was on long-term use and I know that. I just got a thing from the coalition yesterday you may have got it that they're going to do an interview with a physician who just got a million-dollar lawsuit. I'm sorry the physician God, they wouldn't help us at all. God forgive me Lawyer who just got a million dollar settlement for a patient for wrongful I mean, I don't know the details so I'm not going to get into the weeds here. I don't know if it was wrongful prescribing, wrongful death, wrongful, whatever it was. And they said they think it was the biggest benzo settlement. Now I will say this, and I also do not know, but I think Chris Cornell's widow got a huge settlement but it was gag ordered. So I do not, and obviously I don't know the Cornell's personally, but that was another disastrous case. Chris Cornell and I were on, I think, the same daily dose and I have to say this he shouldn't have been on it, neither should I, maybe for different reasons, but that Benzo definitely led to his death. There isn't any doubt about it, because here's the deal. He's a musician, and that's where I am too, and I will tell you, music has been God's saving grace for me, because it was what helped me. I wasn't getting help from anywhere, but I turned to the totally the music community and started not only letting the music kill me but letting their stories heal me. Trey Anastasio from Phish his story is beyond powerful and now he started the Divided Sky Foundation to help people post. You know, post-withdraw. Post-withdraw is where the big problem comes in, because you're like now what I got all this? You know there's damage, I've got problems, I've got this stuff I've got to deal with. So now we've got to go on with life. That was an enormous help, but I will tell you my daughter and I need to say this I helped her then wean off. She's been off now, I believe, 17 months. I've been off 30, 33, 32 months I believe it is now I have to look exactly, but it's been right, it hasn't been that long. It's been, you know, a little over two and a half years. And then, of course, linus came off when she came off because she was nursing. You know she nursed him until he was, I think, two, two and a half and it's so he came off when she came off.

Speaker 2: 32:31

That is a lie straight out of the pit of hell that these babies do not get that benzo through breast milk. That is not true. That is not true. I would stake my life on it because I've heard that cry and I know what his behavior was like. And when she started weaning, that baby started wailing, wailing, pleading cry, just a monotonous cry. That goes on and on and I know it because. So where are you left? I can tell you.

Speaker 2: 32:58

For me, I knew when I was on the drug it was taking my hearing in my right ear and I could feel I mean, I've always had tinnitus in my left ear because as a child I had severe ear infections and tubes and all that rot. But my right ear, the hearing I knew and I knew it was a benzo. I knew it because it was while I was on it. I have a tremor in my left hand now. That is pretty pronounced and it's been ever since I went through a benzo withdrawal. I started getting that tremor. My nervous system is kind of shot. I have severe IBS that I never had like this before. So it will leave you with things that are, I believe, if you go through withdrawal. Maybe some people don't have, and maybe this over time if I live long enough, who knows, might all resolve. My daughter is more damaged than I am because she had Lyme during withdrawal. She had Lyme disease so she's got more severe nervous system damage. We're both now with a direct primary care doctor. A woman that's not affiliated had nothing to do with any of this and we pay her monthly fee. Our whole family's with her and she's our doctor. No insurance company. She got away from insurance because she, like us ladies, knows the game. She's not going to read you a script, she's.

Speaker 2: 34:30

And the thing I noticed with these guys I know I'm having flight of ideas, but here I got to say this I was treated like human garbage. I was treated like an idiot. I was treated like, you know, a fool. I remember Dr Dove saying to me one time that his job was to help me age gracefully. Well, that is not his job and there's so much of this that they believe is their job and part of this is a paternalistic attitude. You know, I'm the doctor, you're the patient and with my background there's no way I can just sit and let someone. Well, the whole thing was a total mess. But my doctor now, you know, I told her up front when I did a meet and greet with her, the whole story and she's like she said the most blessed words I'd heard. I'm not here to judge you Because that was what I got from Dr Dummy. I felt like he was judging me, that he was constantly looking at me through you know eyes of being a drug addict and I understand over at the Benzo Coalition why they push so hard for the correct language. But for me personally, I care a lot less about the language, a lot more about the action. Let's get this fixed man.

Speaker 2: 35:49

These people should not be. They call themselves providers. I'll tell you what they are. They're no different than any other street dealer. They're dealing drugs and, like I said, the big difference is the street dealers know they're not smaller, they're not smarter, they're not smarter than the junk they're dealing. They know what they're dealing. A lot of them are on it and it's like they know.

Speaker 2: 36:10

But through all this, one thing that's come from this is I've got to know a lot more about the addiction community, about people, about how they end up here. And so many people end up here like I have, not by really any nefarious. They didn't end up here by partying this stupid war on drugs and you know I'm as sorry as I can be for anybody who's lost a loved one from a fentanyl overdose. But, seriously, you play with fentanyl. You're going to end up dead and it's like we're not those of us who ended up either on, you know, addicted to Adderall, and I mean you could go on for days about that. Adderall is one covalent bond. Away from being meth, it's scheduled with coke and these guys are still prescribing it to basically babies, little, you know preschoolers and little boys.

Speaker 2: 37:08

And it's like I don't care whether you've ended up on a stimulant, a benzo, an opiate, um, you know what an ssri by no, this is not. You didn't go out here drug seeking. We didn't go out here looking for a high, looking for a party. We didn't go out here doing any of that, and that's what we get treated like and it's just. And then I want to tell you guys something and I know you've noticed this and and I I'm not going to speak out turn about SSRIs, because I've never taken them and you guys are the experts on those, far from me. I'm an expert on Benzo, though, I can tell you that, but I got to tell you this right now. I know a woman. I'm an expert on Benzo, though. I can tell you that, but I've got to tell you this right now. I know a woman. I'll give you three examples the doctor I'm with now has been on Klonopin for 25 years and Wellbutrin, wellbutrin, klonopin 25 years.

Speaker 2: 38:07

So, we do not discuss the benzo at all because, in my opinion, she needs help. I could help her. I know another lady who has been on once again tighten your seatbelts. Tighten your seatbelts. Adderall, effexor, xanax, ambien and an opiate Jesus.

Speaker 1: 38:31

Oh, yeah, that's the stacking combo. That's usually. Yeah, that's the stack combo.

Speaker 2: 38:37

And I know another one who has squatted on SSRIs. She's been told how great it helps her, how well she's doing, and she ended up with reversible cerebrovascular syndrome. Now here is the deal the doctors just keep piling on more, the dealers just keep piling on more meds. And I told my husband I said you get someone who develops that hideous syndrome which is hideous, it's just life-ending. Life is terrible and then you get somebody who has a coke stroke. Now let's compare those two. They're both terrible, terrible situations, both of them drug-induced. So you get the person over here who's got this terrible neurologic syndrome and is having more drugs piled on and they believe that it's helping them and they're trusting their dealer. You got the guy over here who's had a coke stroke, who's like, and he survives it and he's like I'm off this, this is killing me.

Speaker 1: 39:48

And they don't give him anything else. They're like you go through detox, you go through withdrawal.

Speaker 2: 39:53

My friend saw it. I can't say that entirely.

Speaker 1: 39:56

Some recovery centers do exactly on meds, but yeah, you are exactly right.

Speaker 2: 40:00

She thought my friend saw her brother go through it and thought he was going to die, and I know, but you know what they? My friend saw her brother go through it and thought he was going to die, and I know that you know what they go and they're like they ain't telling anybody how wonderful their dealer is. And I'll ask you guys this what is it in this community? Because I know you guys are the first ones to hear my whole story. I haven't shared the whole thing with anybody. You guys are the first ones I've shared it with and I hope it makes sense because I'm, you know, no, it makes great sense, I think In the word of the in the.

Speaker 2: 40:32

You know I'm in the words from the great song Cassidy, scattered like lost words, and I got to tell you it's. What is it in this community, though? What is it Now? We don't want to be called addicts, we don't want to be called junkies. We don't want to be equated with them. This drives me nuts. F and A, we're acting like it, man.

Speaker 3: 40:56

You're defending your dope.

Speaker 2: 40:58

You're defending your dope, you're defending your dealer, you're defending how effed up your life is, and yet you don't want to be called a junkie, it's all the same and there is so much like stigma around the word addiction.

Speaker 3: 41:16

I know, okay, which is so. That's why people don't want to be called this, and this is where I mean for myself. I have different disagreements even with the greats like Mr Mark Horowitz, who who wrote a deep but, I know, and we disagree on this, and that's fine because we can, and but that is for, for me at least, this is all semantics and we are all we're all in the same spot.

Speaker 3: 41:41

We are 100%, and this is why I love this episode, like every social media deliverable that I put out now on addiction. I'm just going to link this episode to it, because if you would remove the word Ativan or the word Benzo okay, luanne from your entire episode, people listening to this would go well, it's got to be cocaine. It's got to be.

Speaker 2: 42:04

They think I was a heroin addict. Look at me. They think I was a heroin addict. Look at me. They think I was a heroin addict. Correct, seriously.

Speaker 3: 42:09

Every single thing you said. I just kept listening and I'm removing the type of drug, it's all the same. It's all the same, baby we all go through the exact same thing and the way you describe this is very helpful.

Speaker 2: 42:23

This is extremely helpful and this is why, when we go to concerts, we're staying, we set up in the dope-free area, because I love these people, I love them, I'm you, I'm them. It's like, you know, ghost of the forest baby, I'm you and you are me, and we are there. I mean we are, that's it. I mean that's it and I mean mean I love them. I don't care what what it is, whether it's alcohol, whether it's benzene, what what it is, whether it's been opiates, I don't care what it is. We, we're all there, we've all been there.

Speaker 2: 42:57

But let me tell you something their behavior, that the, the hatred and vitriol that you have heaped on you, if you say, or they'll just scoff and laugh. I know my, the individual I told you about. He's hooked up on all those drugs. She said to me I'm sure I'm an addict, I'm sure I'm addicted and it's like, but I'm not giving it up. Well then, what are you and, doctor, if I'm an addict, what does that make you? So? There, that's the bit, there you go. If I'm an addict.

Speaker 1: 43:25

What does that make you so there? That's the bit. There you go. If I'm an addict what's that make you so that's what makes you Well, really that's all it is is it's like this difference between we want to argue versus legal, illegal.

Speaker 2: 43:41

And good versus bad drugs. Oh, you can come in with your RI, but you can't come in with your benzo. And do you know the great Dr Ashton? I think it was in the last writing she had in 2011, I think. I don't know. I don't swear to any of that. She said she thought SSRIs were going to be the next. I'm going to paraphrase monster.

Speaker 3: 44:03

And boy was she right, she was right, she was right.

Speaker 2: 44:06

She was right. And then when she wrote on there and she told these doctors and they won't even that dummy that was dealing with me. One last appointment I had with him, I gave him an autographed by me copy of the Ashton manual.

Speaker 1: 44:21

Oh, I love it. I do want to point this out the one thing that Dr Dummy did that a lot of other doctors wouldn't do he prescribed Correct, even though you were deprescribing yes.

Speaker 3: 44:35

He continued they hold that golden ticket. Yes, I knew he did.

Speaker 2: 44:41

I knew he held the golden ticket and here's the deal.

Speaker 2: 44:43

I also knew how close I was to seizureing because I was jerking constantly and I was jerking awake and I knew I was having just, I mean, that withdrawal. The withdrawal is hideous and I don't want to scare anyone who wants to come off, because I believe and Heather Ashton is just riding in there in her very British way Thousands of others have done it, you can do it too, and I would hang on to that statement over and over again. Thousands of others have done it, you can do it too. Take heart, and the thing is that's what I had to hang on to on the worst of days, and my husband has seen it. He's seen it, he's seen me just out of my mind.

Speaker 2: 45:26

Now the funny thing is, too, I know I never re-upped. I didn't because I knew I couldn't, not because I didn't want to or didn't think I needed to. I couldn't. And I mean that was where I never re-upped, because I knew I couldn't. But I got to tell you something there were times after I got off, and there are still times, when the stress pours on and things get bad. And I'm thinking man.

Speaker 1: 45:56

I know how to get rid of this.

Speaker 2: 45:58

I know how I could get rid of it, but the thing is, I'm scared of it now. I'm really scared of it. I'm scared to even think about taking it because I would be afraid of what I you know what would happen. Just like an addict Just like an addict, I know it is. Maybe you need that healthy fear. Maybe we need that?

Speaker 3: 46:18

No, I think it's very motivating and it's very real.

Speaker 2: 46:21

It's very, very real for those of us that have gone through this Again, no different than an illegal street drug and what?

Speaker 2: 46:30

is a street drug. I mean seriously, what is it? You know there was a day where heroin was legal and used. There was a day where coke was legal and used and, like I said, when you look at Adderall man, that is a blisteringly strong drug too. They have created now synthetics and fentanyl crimini. It's synthetic and it makes you know. It makes the puppy drug look like a child's play. So my, I'll tell you what.

Speaker 2: 46:54

I know a man who works. He works with men and post cause most of this you got to get through detox before you can. And I know a man who, in a post-detox setting where they work with men who are trying to get on their feet, and he said two drugs, we don't work with two things. And I never told him my story. He didn't know what my story was or who I am or I mean what the gig is, but he said benzos and alcohol are two of the most dangerous things we can work with. He said we rarely see a heroin addict anymore because he said what we're mainly seeing is fentanyl. And he said we don't see very many of them because they don't live to make it to us. So there's the reality of a lot of this. And the thing is, when we play these semantic games, oh, we don't want to use the word addiction, oh, we only want to use. We want to use dependence, we don't want to use withdrawal, we don't, we want to use deep prescribing.

Speaker 1: 47:51

I mean, there's all kinds of semantic games Because it's mental health care, and that has to be sweet right, it has to be very sweet, but when it gets right down to it, as the song says.

Speaker 2: 48:02

I know that we are here and I am you and you are me and you are the one to bring me down. I mean, we, we got to know, you know, it's just like. But that is the thing that helped me when I started hearing these guys' stories, when I started, you know, getting really, and the music around here. We have that. We have the music on from the time from time. I get up to the time, you know, but I don't go to bed early and I don't sleep well, but that's just a fact of life. Some of this is too. I'm going to be really righteous with you. We don't want to have any pain. We don't want to have any suffering. Everybody talks about anxiety. Oh my anxiety, oh my anxiety, oh my anxiety. I got to tell you something. We are medicating, normal, as the title says we are pathologizing normal human experiences.

Speaker 2: 48:54

We are honey, because I got to tell you you're going to hurt and everybody hurts sometimes. There it is, everybody hurts sometimes. Well, you don't know. Let me tell you something, baby there ain't nothing. You can tell me that I don't know, and I would tell you, benzo, withdrawal is a crawl through hell. It's not a walk through hell, it is a crawl through hell. And ashton herself said most people don't re up because they know how bad withdrawal is, and that's just it. It is bad.

Speaker 1: 49:29

And when you have-. I want to say this, which is interesting, because benzo withdrawal, people know-ish what benzo withdrawal is going to be Know-ish, ish right, but the language around benzo withdrawal is very different than language around SSRI withdrawal, because Is it really? Well, when you are in benzo withdrawal, they will say you're in withdrawal, Correct? Do they ever say this is a return of symptoms in benzo withdrawal? Oh, never let anybody say that You're in withdrawal With SSRIs it's a return of symptoms. It's a return of symptoms.

Speaker 2: 50:05

So you go back on or back up because now I have a return of symptoms.

Speaker 1: 50:13

This is interesting because the language around the withdrawal is so different.

Speaker 2: 50:18

It's drug dependent. Because if someone had said to me oh, this is a return of your symptoms, you can have more, there would have been a point. Honest to God, this is tragic to admit to you guys and it breaks my heart to have to admit it. There's been a point where I've been like right, on baby. Let's have some more Everybody rang Chung tonight, I mean seriously.

Speaker 3: 50:40

But this is such an interesting point though, Terry, you are accurate.

Speaker 2: 50:45

You're so right In the.

Speaker 3: 50:47

SSRI community. Yeah, this is exactly. Let's just give you more dope. Let's just dope you more.

Speaker 2: 50:52

Can you imagine that Same way with you know opiate people that are opiate addicted, and it's like, well man, my pain's worse. Well man, let's just give you some more. We'll give you more. I'll tell you what. Heroin's a good choice. How about some fentanyl? And you know, it's just. It's like you guys are right, and these are eyes. Ashton saw it coming. She saw it coming. And why they do not use her manual with these guys? Why are they allowed to prescribe a drug they know nothing about? Well, how do I get off? I don't know.

Speaker 1: 51:27

Am I going to have to withdraw? I don't know If you are prescribing. You better know how to deprescribe. You better understand the entire life cycle of the medication that you are prescribing, beginning to middle to end.

Speaker 2: 51:40

And you better know the half-life, because in Benzos man you live and die by the half-life. Well, no kidding, you're going through interdose.

Speaker 3: 51:47

You're talking about interdose, withdrawal, and I'm thinking yeah, I mean you've got an eight-hour half-life, I know If you're lucky, oh, you don't anymore.

Speaker 2: 51:54

Though If someone told me, if someone asked me now, does Ativan last eight hours? I'd laugh. The other thing that would make me laugh is when these imbecilic bastards talk about using an antihistamine for anxiety. Well, I could probably drink a whole bottle of claritin and never have the feeling that I had with with you know, half a milligram out of the end. It's so crazy when they talk about that because I gotta tell you, righteous, I liked it. I mean, I like the way it made me feel.

Speaker 2: 52:25

It's great Benzos work. There's the difference too with with the and, like I said, I don't want to speak out of turn because you, you girls, are the experts on the RIs, but I'm not even sure they know particularly how they work. And there is no serotonin theory. There's a serotonin syndrome. That's terrible, it is bullshit. But with with Benzos, they know they downgrade your Kavits system. They know how they work. And, man, you know what, how I described it?

Speaker 2: 52:52

There's a song that Trey Anastasios sings, a Case of Ice and Snow. Listen to that song sometime. It it, and he's, of course, the lead singer and guitarist for Phish. The song's called A Case of Ice and Snow. That is exactly Benzo Withdraw and that also is how I remember I used to take that night dose and I would say I'm sinking into a case of ice. That's the way I would feel, just sinking, and but it wasn't bad, it was good. But that song, a Case of Ice and Snow, is Benzo Withdraw. It is a heartbreaking song but so true it describes it to a T. The first time I heard it and of course it's on my playlist. I love it. We went and saw Trey Acoustic back in March and I was like he better sing A Case of Ice and Snow. And he didn't. But you know I love him anyway and it's like you know, and that is another point I want to make for people who have been through Benzo Withdrawal, and you know, if you are, if they are still hanging on to you know cause it's real easy, you'll never. It is once again, as the song says um, sometimes the ghost is silent, but the ghost is always there and wherever I go, he goes with me and that ghost will always, on some level, go with you on some level at will. And sometimes it's silent and sometimes it's not. And your nervous system, you know it's pretty wrecked. But I will say this when find, find your life, find it.

Speaker 2: 54:28

Because for us, like, we're supposed to go to a concert tonight and I take ear loops, I wear ear loops and sunglasses. I mean I probably do look like a major head. And I mean I, you know I'm wearing ear loops and you know it's like, look at that old junkie over there. You know she's an old deadhead, she's an old school junkie. She probably dropped acid before she came to the concert. Can't put two sentences together. So you know it's like these guys. But in all actuality, you know, I put my ear loops in, I wear sunglasses and I know my limit. If I feel that it's getting to be too much, you know I'll step out. But I dance Like we went to a Goose concert back in June.

Speaker 2: 55:08

There's this young guy. You know there's a lot of, you know there's a vast number of ages in the deadhead community and there's this kid dancing next to me and I mean he is like you know, I know he's off his kook. And he, like he turns to me and he says, wow, how old are you? And I'm like man, I'm not going to tell you how old I am. He goes no, no, I want to know, do you remember? And he's so stoned he starts talking about something I'm like. Ask him my husband's next to me. He went to over 60 dead concerts. He'll tell you.

Speaker 2: 55:44

So it's like these guys, but find it. Find a place where you know, and I would say too, the fear of being called an addict, the fear of being called a junkie, the fear of being called a junkhead or a you know whatever the fear of that needs to go, because you girls are right, there is no difference and we're all in this together and we need to help each other. And the only way you can do that is to be real, real clear on who you are. I don't care what anybody calls me. You can call me anything you want to call me, it doesn't bother me. So you know.

Speaker 3: 56:25

Well, that's a really great space actually for wrap up. Luann, that was perfect, like your, your message there at the end is this episode. I just sat here a lot and just listened to you. I know I think you are the first. You are the first, so I'll call out one of our listeners who only gave us three stars because we talk too much. We'll listen to this fucking episode okay, Because Mary and I said nothing. Their brain is going to explode down, I know.

Speaker 2: 56:51

They're not even going to handle it. I know I don't want to make, like I said, anybody mad. I do, we can be mad. I don't want them to get mad because I say addiction. But baby, here we are.

Speaker 3: 57:03

Here we are. If you made it this far, guys, to the end, we you've listened to another episode of the gaslit truth podcast with Lulu, mimi, rn, deadhead, benzo, survivor, and if you guys want to listen to this episode, you can find us anywhere that you listen to podcasts. We are also on all of the socials. You can find us on Facebook and on Instagram and one guys, you should probably get on YouTube and watch, because you got to see the image of the voice behind Luann's voice. You guys, you got to see this shit. It's great.

Speaker 2: 57:35

Right, because last time I was like hey, how do I look? He said you look just like you, yeah that's just it, yes, so.

Speaker 3: 57:42

So thank you guys for listening. Again, go ahead. We want all the stars, don't give us two or three, give us all of them and we appreciate all, all of our fans. And Luann, you have been like, you're at the top like five here, I say top three. Like you, I could just listen to you talk all day. Thank you, man.

Speaker 2: 58:01

Maybe tell my husband, oh man Maybe tell my husband oh my God.

Speaker 1: 58:08

Love you guys Love you too. Power people.