324. Your Sugar Cravings Make Sense When You Understand Your Hormones with Amber Romaniuk

"What's wrong with me?" You've probably asked yourself this after another night of eating when you weren't hungry, scrolling when you meant to go to bed, or saying yes to something you had no energy for. The late-night sugar, the people-pleasing, the crashing after weeks of overdoing everything. You're not lazy and you're not broken, but you are asking the wrong question.

The real question is what's happening in your body because so much of what we chalk up to bad habits or weak willpower is actually driven by biology. Your nervous system is keeping you in familiar patterns because familiar feels safe, even when it's not working. Your cortisol is spiking your hunger and blunting your fullness signals, and if you're in perimenopause, all of it hits harder because the hormonal buffer you used to have is disappearing.

In this episode of Truce with Food, I sit down with Amber Romaniuk, an expert in emotional eating, digestive health, and hormonal balance with over 12 years of clinical and lived experience, to discuss the biology behind the behaviors we call self-sabotage. We get into how chronic stress and cortisol reshape your hunger and cravings, why everything from sugar to people-pleasing hits differently in perimenopause, and what it actually looks like to stop fighting your body and start understanding what it's telling you.

7:16 – Why mindset work fails when you ignore your body's role in behavior

9:27 – Why your nervous system keeps you stuck in familiar patterns even when you want to change

15:22 – How cortisol changes your hunger, cravings, and capacity to handle stress

21:55 – Why everything from sugar to stress hits differently in perimenopause and menopause

28:34 – How low progesterone drives people-pleasing, overworking, and chasing the next accomplishment

34:19 – Getting off the addiction to intensity and what to do instead of chasing cheap dopamine

41:17 – Amber's cortisol test recommendations and what to actually do with the results

48:19 – What guilt does to your amygdala and why it keeps you from prioritizing yourself

Mentioned In Your Sugar Cravings Make Sense When You Understand Your Hormones with Amber Romaniuk

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Transcript

Ali Shapiro: Welcome to Truce With Food, the podcast where we stop fighting food and start addressing the deeper story of what you suspect is going on, but can't put your finger on. Because the focus on food is a waste of your precious time, resources and life. 

I was eating low-carb trying to heal my gut,  oh my God, this is before I knew anything about anything like, right? You're probably your own guinea pig too, right? And then I get my cortisol back and it's through the roof and I'm exhausted. And my estrogen is too high, my progesterone is too high, I have a thyroid issue. And I'm like, but I thought this was supposed to heal my gut. And then I started actually learning about hormones and cortisol. And I'm like, oh my gosh, I by accident completely did something I shouldn't have done. 

I'm your host, Ali Shapiro, an integrated health expert with a 19-year proven track record of client success. I'm a 33-year and counting cancer survivor and creator of the research-based Truce With Food framework that came out of my own personal experience, from recovering from cancer and yo-yo dieting. Because you name it, I had tried it. I also have a master's degree from the University of Pennsylvania. I'm affectionately called people's last best resort and a coach's coach as people come to me, when they've tried everything and nothing's worked long-term. This show is where we quiet the noise so we can go deep to get you the results you deserve. This podcast is for informational purposes only and does not constitute personal, individual or medical advice.

Now onto the show. One of the things that drives me bananas about behavior change, habit change, especially related to food and exercise, is how so many people not just focus on willpower and discipline, but think really changing our behavior is just a mindset game. Oh, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. There it is so much more than that. And so I was so happy to have Amber Romaniuk on my podcast today to discuss the hormonal influences and so much more as our behavior. Essentially, what is the biology of self-sabotage? Okay. So you don't have many people who can talk about this stuff, because most people are still just focusing on the behavior itself, not why the behavior makes sense. And that's a completely different conversation. And so Amber and I had that conversation today, specifically around the biology of cortisol, our nervous system and our hormones and how that influences how we eat, how we scroll, all the things that we think of as self-sabotage, but why it actually makes sense, when you take a more nuanced, layered look at that. 

So we're going to talk about that today. We're going to get into the physiology of self-sabotage. We're going to get more into about nervous system safety and how self-sabotaging patterns may be frustrating, but they feel familiar and familiar feels safe. We're going to get into a bunch of discussion around cortisol and how things just hit differently from sugar to people-pleasing to striving, once you're in perimenopause and menopause, including, do you really need a cortisol test? And if you do, or if you have a high cortisol or low cortisol, what do you do? And then we get into a really, I think, important conversation about in midlife, getting off of this rollercoaster of an addiction to intensity. And we'll talk about that. Not only is it about food and over exercising, but also overworking and crashing and how that is so important to be able to change your behaviors that you want to change. And then lastly, we're going to get into guilt and what guilt really does to our body. And Amber and I have different thoughts on guilt and how to work with that. We'll get into that.

So I think you're really going to like today's conversation and lens on it. So a little bit more about Amber. She is an expert in emotional eating, digestive health, and hormonal balance. She's got over 12 years experience working with women on everything from their hormones to restore optimal health, to building body confidence, to really deepening their intuition. And I really love she has so many tools in her toolbox. So it was really fun to be able to go in a lot of different directions with her. She also has a podcast called the No Sugar Coating Podcast. And I would definitely check that out if you like our conversation today. And more than all of Amber's training and clinical experience, I should say equally as she has her own experience of overcoming emotional eating. And I think until you're in the trenches and have walked this path, sometimes you don't see more of the clues and what really it takes to shift our relationship to food. It's very different when you're living inside of it, like Amber and I have, versus just kind of looking at it from a clinical standpoint. So she has all the lenses that I have, which I really appreciated and are rare to find. And she's really big on evidence informed insights and lived experience, which I think is really, really important since women's health is so underfunded. Okay. With that, enjoy today's show.

Ali Shapiro: So I am so glad to have you here, Amber. I find it so rare to find someone who can talk about the physiological roots of behavior and behavior change, especially related to food, because everyone thinks it's only in the brain, but you're going to teach us differently today. 

Amber Romaniuk: Thank you for having me. And yes, I think that the thing is, is it's so many layers and it's not just linear in one thing. And I think that's the biggest piece with like our mood and our behaviors and our habits and our relationship with food and our self-worth, like it stems from so many different places, like, you know. 

Ali Shapiro: And I love that you said that at the top of the show, the top of the hour, because we both work with all or nothing. And if you're listening to this episode and in that mindset, it can think like, oh, this is the thing that I can run away with. And it's like, no, this is part of it. And I just appreciate that you're so real about that, because our space has become pretty crazy. And so I told, I just, my podcast used to be called Insatiable, now it's called Truce With Food. I'm like, I am becoming even more discerning with who I bring on the show, because it's a little bit wild, wild west out here right now. 

Amber Romaniuk: Yeah, yeah. And I think, you know, being that's the case, it's even more important for us, you know, in this community to connect who are on the same page and really give, you know, the aligned guidance, plant seeds, insight. Because I'm sure you can agree with this, but at the end of the day, you got to do the deeper work and you've got to address the roots,if you really want to heal this stuff. Rather than all these shiny objects and quick fixes that keep being dangled out in front of everybody that are only going to delay your true healing, right? 

Ali Shapiro: Yes, yes, yes. So today we're going to talk about essentially, you know, the biological roots of self-sabotage. And so, and before we get there, because I love that you're like, it's not about more willpower or more discipline, but this is kind of, this is just kind of like shop talk, I guess. But I love that you, like, I essentially hate that word mindset work, because so many people think that the mindset work is just like all about in the brain. Whereas like half of mindset is, well, it's many different things, but it's your biology. And so when you hear the word mindset, do you cringe too? Or is it just, am I the only geek out there? That's like…

Amber Romaniuk: Fair enough. I respect that. I mean, I think the mindset work is massive and helps us shift the biology, but we also have to look at the biology. And I think as well, it's not just, it's not the mind it's, it's learning how to listen to your body and tap into your body's wisdom, learning how to become intuitive and tap into your intuition, which is like in your heart, it's not in your head. And so I think that there's a level of mindset work. There's understanding how your blood sugar, your hormones, your brain chemistry, that also like goes into the body, impacts the way that we are behaving. And then we have to look at, yeah, like we're meant to have this, in my opinion, this innate deep connection with ourselves and our bodies. But if we're constantly in the mind, only thinking it's all in the mind, we're missing like a huge aspect of this. 

Ali Shapiro: Yeah. And I want to clarify, like I, I mean, so much of my work is, it's really on how our thoughts are created by a deeper narrative. But when I was in grad school, I was writing this like paper and I was like, and, and in the mind and my teacher was like, yo, like, you got to define your terms. Like no, one's been able to locate the mind. It's actually an invisible projection of your body and brain. And so that's what I meant more is just like, people think, Oh, if I do mindset work, but it's like, I'm trying to say part of the mind is in, is in your body.  

Amber Romaniuk: A hundred percent. Yeah, no, it totally is. And I think that's, but you're right. A lot of people just think it's up here, in the mind. If I just like affirm the same thing over and over again, like everything will like change and affirmations are great, but we have to look at the body as a whole.

Ali Shapiro: Yeah. Yeah. And so part of what you talk about is like, we can't think our way out of patterns that are driven by deeper biochemistry, right? The hormones, the gut, the nervous system. So can you just talk a little bit about that? Because I think that's new for people to think, wait, my biology might be influencing my patterns. 

Amber Romaniuk: Yeah. Big time, like more than you realize. And when you learn it, it's like mind blowing. I just see that emoji with the brain, like that one, right? Like that's literally what you, the epiphany you have, when you realize the significance of this. And I think one of the biggest things is the nervous system. It's to me, the biggest driver that then causes this cascade effect of all these other things in the body. And it's your nervous system is, like, I think this is the thing, your nervous system's number one job isn't happiness, or like peace, it's survival and it's familiarity. And I think that's why so many people, including myself, when I was binge eating to the point where I was like dumpster diving for the food and eating out of my garbage is like, I knew the behavior wasn't in alignment, but it was what was familiar and it was what I knew. And that's what my nervous system also associated with familiar. And one of the reasons why it took some time to heal, because I had no idea what my nervous system was. I thought it was willpower. I thought I just have to like be more mindful with food and just like say no. And if I get rid of it, then I won't want it. But if I'm stressed and my nervous system's stressed and I'm always in fight or flight and I'm always criticizing myself, I'm going to cause such a level of dysregulation in my body that is going to increase my cravings for sugar, salt, refined carbohydrates, going to spike my stress hormone, cortisol, probably going to lower my sex hormones, progesterone and estrogen, which is going to further amplify like, you know, low GABA, oxytocin, low dopamine. And then I'm going to want to go and eat even more and chase pleasure seeking highs. So it's just a bit of a summary, but it starts with the nervous system and the nervous system's job is to keep you safe and to keep you alive. And so many of us are constantly living in survival, because we're putting ourselves last. We're people pleasing, we're in perfection, we're in these self-sabotaging behaviors. And if that is the case, you know, when you have a familiar attachment to, I'm stressed, I don't feel safe. I'm going to binge. I'm going to people please. I'm going to procrastinate. I'm going to go into proving. I'm going to numb out. I'm going to shut down. I'm going to isolate. I'm going to scroll on my phone. Like whatever your habits of choice are, you have that moment of safety, even though it's not serving you. And you'll keep reverting back there until you start to realize that you've innocently wired yourself into this. This is familiar. This is comforting, even if it's a detriment to my wellbeing on any level. So it starts, in my opinion, with the nervous system. And then it gets into like, I would love to touch on the hormone piece next, because I think it's such a huge piece that is not talked about enough. And there's so many deep connections with our hormones dictating not only our mood and our emotional state, but how we behave. 

Ali Shapiro: Yeah. Let's get there. I just want to, for people listening, because on my podcast, we talk about safety a lot. And I just want to name that what you're saying is familiar is safety to the nervous system. I love that you said we innocently couple with it. It's like, I don't know what you and my clients are like, I've been doing this with food since I've been five or 10. And so it's like, okay, so now when the nervous system feels under threat, it almost feels like a loss, if it doesn't have that familiar attachment to food, or whatever your self-sabotaging behavior and choice is. So I just want to name that for people that familiarity and safety is really what our nervous system… because it's primal, right? It's our animal bodies. It's not nuanced. It's not like, well... And it picks up on so many more cues than our brain does.

Amber Romaniuk: Oh, a hundred percent. And your nervous system is constantly scanning for threat and again, wants to keep you in that comfort, safety, familiarity zone. So when you think about making a change, maybe you're like, I want to deal with this. I want to start feeling my emotions. I want to start challenging my triggers. I want to learn how to love myself, whatever it is. Your nervous system is like, there's a bear, essentially. This is a threat to your survival. This is uncomfortable. This doesn't feel safe. So revert back over here. Go back to old behaviors. Like, no, it's a threat, right? So even though it's not necessarily, because you're going to heal and do a lot of good work with that, the nervous system is sensing that as a threat to your survival. So your body essentially thinks there's a bear, even though there's no bear, right? And so that's why, again, we innocently can keep in these behaviors, because our nervous system is wired to keep us in comfort too, right? And I think that was a huge epiphany for me to be like, wow, no wonder I didn't want to deal with this for so long, because I literally didn't know my nervous system wants me to stay in comfort and familiarity, even if it's something that isn't serving me.

Ali Shapiro: Yeah. I love that you brought that up. In my group programs, we always start off with, like, aim for a C plus effort. And people are, like, disappointed, but they're also relieved. And it's because of what you're saying is, like, we need to recouple doing C plus with safety rather than, that you were saying, the over-performing, the perfectionism. And my Truce with Food for Good program, which is, like, six months, we're at, like, the fifth month mark. And people are, like, holy shit, C plus works. And I was, like, yeah, it was a total leap of faith in the beginning. But now and it's, like, just show up. When you don't want to show up, because we're recoupling that discomfort with you're going to be met with support and compassion and results, you know? So I'm so glad that you brought that up. So tell us about hormones and influencing our behaviors. 

Amber Romaniuk: Yes, this is big. And this is also why I love the C plus that you say, because trying to throw yourself into the deep end and face it all and do it all at once and try to rush yourself through it, is only going to overwhelm your nervous system more and stress out your hormones more. So, like, taking it one step at a time is truly the best approach for many reasons, including hormone health. Because, you know, I've, you know, worked with thousands of women as well. And it's, like, every single one of them has had a cortisol issue. And we'll talk more about that right away. But there's just been so much fighting with the body, negative self-talk, fighting with weight, fighting with food, whatever's going on. And so if you consider making an extremely drastic change really quickly, you're only going to dysregulate your system a lot more than if you take that mindful pace. And so cortisol is the first thing. So what I often see is, obviously, if you're in self-sabotage, you're wanting to avoid, you're wanting to numb out your negative self-talk, loathing, whatever's going on for you, your brain is the first part of you that's going to sense this stress. And there's a specific connection in the brain called the HPA axis, the hypothalamus pituitary. And they sense this stress. And after a certain period of time, they're like, oh, my goodness, this is becoming chronic. This is not just a five-minute thing. And then we're, like, coming back into rest and digest from fight or flight. And then the brain and these specific glands communicate to the adrenal glands, which sit on your kidneys and go, like, fly to cortisol and adrenaline through your body. There's a bear constantly nonstop, even though there's probably no bear. And so when we see this chronic elevated cortisol, these are the ways that it really influences your behavior. So with your relationship with food, we see usually an increase in ghrelin, which is your hunger hormone that makes you hungry. So you feel more likely to overeat or consume. You don't feel satiated, because high cortisol also blunts your leptin, which is your fullness signal. So it's hard to feel satiated. I just remember this and I felt like the hollow leg syndrome. I just felt like I could eat and eat and eat and no matter what, like I just never felt satiated. And part of that was I had incredibly high cortisol. It amplifies cravings for refined sugar, refined carbs and salt, because when your body's in a dysregulated state, you burn through your minerals too quickly. That makes you crave the salt, because you're hoping to consume minerals and things that actually will benefit your body, not just a bag of salty ketchup chips or something. And then the sugar and carb cravings come from the blood sugar instability that starts to happen. And then, you know, if you wait too long to eat, you get hangry, dizzy, faint, lightheaded, moody, your energy crashes, your face turns really pale. And then you're like, Oh, I waited too long. And that can be an easy way to trigger a binge or emotionally eating, because now you've waited too long. You're in a panic state. And it's kind of like, Oh my gosh, I need to eat the first thing I can find, which I find then triggers the all or nothing. Oh, I made a poor choice. I've screwed up. Screw it. The day's ruined. I'm going to eat whatever I want. Right? So even just like those first few cascades with cortisol, which they can be significant. And also when we have high or low cortisol, we don't have as much capacity to process stress. So if you already have a lot of things on your plate, your ability to have any capacity to process, significantly drops and your ability to emotionally regulate drops. So it's so much easier to just be like, Oh my gosh, I can't even handle this. Like, where's the food? Where is my phone? I'm going to online shop. Where's the caffeine? Or you just feel like you're spread too thin and you're more reactive to things. And of course, what do we want? Comfort, safety, familiarity. So we'll go to food. So that dysregulated cortisol really makes it easier to justify continuing with the same comfort zones and safety, when it comes to self-sabotage. And also when we're in this state, you know, over time your sleep can get really hit. And if you have trouble falling asleep, you're awake through the night, you're waking, feeling tired, that can spike cortisol more, increase appetite cravings. Also we can have a blunted dopamine and serotonin, some of that brain chemistry and neurotransmitter stuff. And that all can amplify your desire to chase pleasure and reward, in whatever way you're seeking fit, whether it's people pleasing, perfection, food, et cetera. So it, you know and when you're tired, it's like the, I don't care mentality. I don't care. I'm just going to go eat. I don't care. It's a stressful day. I don't care. I want a reward. And that mentality, I'm sure you hear it all the time too, Alie, but it's like, it's so strong, when you're tired and your cortisol is off and you probably have other hormone imbalances that you don't know that you have. So that's like in a nutshell, a big part of, you know, the cortisol. And then there's the emotional piece with it, which is you may feel more anxiotic, more hypervigilance, you catastrophize and like make worst case scenario stuff that you usually wouldn't. You want more control. There's more all or nothing thinking. And so again, when we're in that state, we want immediate relief. We want comfort. We want the quickest way to, you know, numb out or check it or get that dopamine high. And so deep down, you really want to change this, but there's these kinds of drivers that are really having a significant impact on your ability to make a change. So it's cortisol first and foremost. 

Ali Shapiro: Yeah. And I think it's so important for people to realize like our bodies evolved in a completely different environment. So our bodies were not like evolved to like sabotage us, right? Your body thinks it's helping you out. 

Amber Romaniuk: Yeah, exactly.  She does. 

Ali Shapiro: I got you girl. You know? 

Amber Romaniuk: Yeah, really, I know. And then we're in the mentality of like, my body's out to get me and it's trying to get revenge. And it's like, no, she's so intelligent, but we have not been taught. Like we should be taught this in school. Like hormones, like women especially should be taught about hormones like way before they ever, you know, get out of whack. 

Ali Shapiro: Yeah. I've been joking with people. Because again, I know so much about the body. And then I was just shocked at what happened to me in menopause. And I was like, tell me you're in a patriarchal society without telling me you are when all you learn about your hormones is how not to get pregnant, you know? 

Amber Romaniuk: Totally, yeah.

Ali Shapiro: And you are like, Oh my God. These are so essential to our health, our bone health, our heart health, weight. Yes. But stress, all the things it's like, it's kind of like when people are like, why don't we learn about finance? You know, in school it's like, why aren't we learning about our hormones? Like it's, oh, it's wild. And so how do you describe it? Cause I try to explain to people that like as you're in perimenopause and menopause, like essentially that testosterone, progesterone and estrogen are kind of like a buffer that you get against cortisol. And I'm always trying to like create a good metaphor of like, it's kind of like now all of a sudden you have like, you had an interest free credit card and now it's, you know, 20%.

Amber Romaniuk: That's a good analogy. 

Ali Shapiro: It's like people, cause I, again, I don't want people, I want people to realize like, why does all this stuff hit differently? Right. And for a lot, I mean, a lot of my clients are sober, but some of the clients who aren't like, I first started noticing alcohol affects me. Like it disturbs my sleep now, but I don't think people think, oh, there's going to be a different, you know, as the young kids say, sugar hits differently, you know, but how do you explain that to your clients of like, it's not that it's bad or good, but it is going to hit you differently now that you are, you have different hormone levels, progesterone and testosterone. 

Amber Romaniuk: Yeah. And your thyroid starts to decline, your cortisol naturally starts to go up. And so I think, you know, what's always been a naturally intricate system, aka hormones, becomes even more vulnerable, you could say, or maybe a bit more delicate as you start to get into perimenopause. And what I'm seeing, I don't know if you see this, but because of, you know, incredibly chronically high levels of stress, the poor quality of food, we're so depleted. We have to play all these roles in the hustle culture is so big, let alone all the quick fixes people are trying to lose weight and everything and like suppress everything that are completely trashing their hormones. Women are starting to go into perimenopause in their late twenties. I've had women in their late twenties, mid twenties, starting to go into perimenopause, because of the temporary like impacts that these self-sabotaging behaviors have had, or like binge purge cycles and all these kinds of things. And, and so, yeah, things feel more vulnerable, when your hormones are fluctuating. You may not find your current movement, eating plan, the way you sleep is the same anymore, or does the same to give you the same level of energy or gives you the same, you know, mood. And that's because if you've had underlying hormone imbalances for years and now you're hitting perimenopause, which ideally starts between 35 and 37. But like I said, it can happen sooner. Some women can be delayed, but you have really good hormones if it's being delayed past 35 to 37. And it goes ideally until you're in your early fifties. And I know menopause can hit earlier for some women, depending on their circumstances, but ideally we want menopause to be held off for as long as possible. And so we see, we see a natural increase in cortisol. Once the cortisol starts to go up, we get more inflammation in the body and then that can inhibit the thyroid a little bit more. And like women are eight times more likely to have a thyroid issue than men. And 65% of those cases are going undetected, because the normal ranges are too big. And because a full thyroid panel is not being done. It's shocking. Like how many women are walking around with Hashimoto's or thyroid issues and their doctor won't test half the things, or three quarters of the things, or just keep saying everything's normal. And they're flagging outside of the normal range. So that can be another reason why you're feeling off, because you keep asking for the labs and you keep being declined or told you look fine. You're too young to have a hormone issue, right? And there's a whole conversation around that. So you have to advocate for yourself to get what you need. And so once we have that cortisol start to shift, the blood sugar can become more, you know, sensitive insulin resistance, insulin can creep up more. And once we start to see insulin creep up or cortisol creep up inflammation, feeling puffy, swollen, right? Your face is swollen. You might feel more warm. You have more pain. Like this can happen a bit more easily. And, you know, once your cortisol goes off, you have more inflammation and blood sugar goes off. If your thyroid goes off, I often see this increase in TSH thyroid stimulating hormone and a decline in T4 and converting to T3. And then your metabolism gets more sluggish and trying to push harder in the gym and eat less and all that just stresses your body out even more. So I think for a lot of women who've been chronic dieters, chronic people pleasers, right? Like their system's been exhausted for years and now it hits harder in perimenopause, because the body is less tolerant to not listening to yourself and to not giving to yourself. I think that's another point is like the body's like, no, we're not putting up with anymore of your BS. This is what's going on. You're either going to listen to me and change it or you're going to feel the effects and it's not a punishment, but like we're supposed to listen to our bodies and honor our bodies the best we can through all seasons of life. But we often abandon our bodies, which is not going to help with perimenopause. And then, you know, with this shift, then we start to see the decline in progesterone, estrogen starts to drop. Some women can have low progesterone and high estrogen though, estrogen dominance, depending on the way their body's detoxing or lack thereof. And then we also see this decline of testosterone, because your adrenal glands, which sit on your kidneys that I mentioned earlier, they produce cortisol, but they also produce DHEA, which is a steroid and a precursor hormone. So you actually need DHEA to convert into your testosterone and make that and some of your estrogen. And then once you get into menopause and post, your adrenal glands are responsible for making all your progesterone, all your estrogen, producing the DHEA, converting into testosterone and estrogen. And also we want to see a regulated cortisol. So this is one of the reasons why so many women have no sex hormones and low testosterone, because their adrenals are so stressed and have been chronically for years, or decades that their cortisol is too high or too low. Their DHEA is too low. The material needed to make progesterone gets eaten up and converted into more stress hormones. And then everything starts to decline. And as that all starts to decline, you feel flatlined. You feel numb. You don't feel anything. You feel depressed. You feel anxiety. You feel disconnected from your loved ones, your spouse, your kids, your passions. And when you get to that state of numbness and flatlined and meh, I was there last year with low progesterone, it's a really uncomfortable feeling and it's not fun. And, you know, thank God I healed my relationship with food years ago, because I can see where there would be this desire to be like, I want to feel something. So I feel nothing. And then you go eat some sugar, you go eat the thing. And then all of a sudden you have this high and you feel something and then that can fuel these behaviors. I can go deeper into the connections between the hormone deficiencies and the neurotransmitters. But like that is a big piece that I see. And that's just on the mood side. The more deficient we are in these hormones, the more prone you are to people please, to prove, to actually have a more attachment relation style with your partner. The more prone you may be to, like I said, feeling disconnected from others, to want to isolate and withdraw and again, numb out and check it with self-sabotaging behaviors. You may also feel more prone to like take care of others and push this, like I have to do it all and be it all and get everything off my to-do list. Because you're again, you're chasing this reward via validation, via checking things off your list. And your body's just becoming more depleted. And again, we have these like external attachments to these things that we think make us feel good enough. When our worth is within us. And so I think this is a period of time where a lot of women realize I've been like giving my power away for so long and I want to take it back. And so healing, people pleasing, saying no, setting boundaries, opening up time for myself, stopping the self abandonment, building my worth, healing my relationship with food. And then they support their hormones at the same time. And they actually have capacity to do so, to make these changes, right? Like that C plus thing you're talking about earlier. It's like support your nervous system, support your hormones, while you do these uncomfortable things that have been lifelong learned habits and behaviors. 

Ali Shapiro: Yeah. So are you saying, like, when you start to get low progesterone and of course, again, reminder from the top of the hour, everyone there's this is like multifactorial as we would say, but hormones can really help is that as you get low progesterone, you start to feel a little flatter, things don't hit the same. And so what you're saying is it's the food, but it's also people pleasing. And maybe it's like, Oh, let me chase that next accomplishment. Like I'm uncomfortable. And so I'm seeking out dopamine, essentially.

Amber Romaniuk: Totally, yeah. 

Ali Shapiro: Well, I wanted to confirm, I thought that's what you were saying, because you also talk about like, that's what the restrict… like, because I'm always telling clients, like how we eat is how we live. And so it's like a restricting binging cycle mirrors the emotional of like, I'm going to deprive myself of my emotional needs getting met so I can help everybody else. Right. I'm undernourishing emotionally, I'm undernourishing physically, but I just think it's important for people to realize that this is connected to a physiological dopamine reward system. I just... 

Amber Romaniuk: A hundred percent. And if you don't have enough progesterone, it's hard for the body to circulate enough dopamine through the body. Hence why we want to chase more of the dopamine high speed. Progesterone is also the calming hormone. So it's a sex hormone, but it's the calming hormone. And so if you don't have enough of it, it's very hard to feel safe in your body and for your nervous system to regulate. It's also an anti-inflammatory hormone. So when you start to puff up and swell up and you go, Oh my God, I feel like I'm gaining weight. I need to push harder in the gym that just eats and burns through the little progesterone you have left. And that just drives more of this inflammation and more of this desire to chase the dopamine highs. So, so many women may feel resistant to doing their deeper work and continuing to chase, you know, crossing things off the list or continuing to people please and give to everyone else, because your nervous system literally just does not feel safe to go there and to do that, because of the lack of this hormone. I deem progesterone the feminine hormone, because often I see women so in their masculine overdoing, over giving, control, right? All of it. And it drains progesterone. I had no progesterone in my mid twenties post binge eating, because I was fighting with my body and food and my weight all the time. I did correct it thereafter, but had to do some further, more extensive support, last year, as it started to deplete into premenopause. But it's like, we've not been taught the connections between these hormones and the nervous system and our neurotransmitters and that it literally impacts. It can impact you to a level of, it can feel like you're blocked from learning to love yourself. You don't, it's hard to trust, when you have low progesterone. It's hard to feel connected to your body, to God's source, the universe, whatever you believe in, like literally that feels cut off. So when I work with women, you probably notice this too. And in the beginning we start working together and they're building a lot of momentum, but it takes time for their progesterone to build. And they're going, I really feel a struggle with connecting with myself. I'm like, it's okay. Part of it is we need some progesterone to build up a little bit more in your body. And as it does and they build the repetition of it starting to feel safe and familiar, taking care of themselves and prioritizing themselves, things start to click more. So if you're being hard on yourself, because you're like, I feel like I should love myself by now. I feel like I should trust more. I feel like I should blah, blah, blah. It's like, well, you may have really low progesterone, estrogen or both. And that literally will inhibit your ability to feel safe and grounded and regulated and calm in your body. We also need enough progesterone to help us fall asleep, because it is connected to GABA, the calming neurotransmitter and deficiency with progesterone and GABA can make you crave more sugar. And here's another emotionally eating trigger that can just come up so easily. So like progesterone, you don't just need it to reproduce and to have a, like when we're in our cyclical years, you produce the majority of your progesterone and estrogen via ovulation. So if you're not ovulating, you probably have quite a deficiency with progesterone, estrogen, or both. And so I think this is why so many women are so hard on themselves. Like it's not your fault. You're not broken. You probably have no idea what's going on with your hormones. 

Ali Shapiro: Yeah. I love that you tie it to the feminine hormone. My TRUCE FOR FOOD is rooted in the heroine's journey. So, I'm all about when like, I think our hormones, the physiology, the emotions, everything's pointing in the same direction. It's just like, what's the entry point that we're ready to address? Here's kind of a, I don't know if it's a philosophical question, or it's a clinical and philosophical one. But one of the things I've often talked about with clients is a part of, I think midlife is getting off of this addiction to intensity of like the, you know, I call it the cheap dopamine of social media, sugar, the people pleasing. But there's also like some grief there of like, and again, I'm someone who used to be very high achieving, go, go, go, go. And some of that was, I was probably running from myself a little bit, you know, but some of it was also like, we talk about in my groups, like perfectionism freaking gets you a lot of fun things. Right. And I'm not saying for people to not have high standards or anything like that. And I talk about how sometimes when people said like, I felt great when I was eating this way. I'm like, was it like juice cleanse high, like adrenaline cortisol? Cause you were undernourished and you felt in control. Right. And it's like, oh, maybe that's what that was. And I'm like, because I'm asking you to like connect how you eat to a more steady state of like, I can go longer, but I'm also not super up. And then I'm also not super down. Right. But do you find that that's kind of this like bigger, deeper lesson of like, how do we get off of this addiction to intensity? That is super comfortable, uncomfortable. Like you're trying to find that middle way. And like, how do you get comfortable with that? 

Amber Romaniuk: Yeah, no. And I love that you brought that up, because it's so true. We're so addicted to intensity. You can become addicted to having high cortisol and like constantly being in these states of fight or flight. And what's so interesting, you just brought up a really good point, is there's a huge difference between having a high energy from being in an adrenaline cortisol high energy, versus actually having true energy. And so I think one of the first things is starting to help women figure out, well, what is the actual adrenaline high? That's going to like kick you in the face and burn out at some point and then you're going to be so depleted, versus like having consistent energy levels. And I think, yeah, there is a grieving process that we go through when we realize that, you know, chasing perfection or chasing these behaviors or, you know, whatever we're chasing and creating this intense, you know, pleasure high from is actually burning us out and not serving us. And it's to like have gratitude and appreciation for how it served us up into this point, because we didn't know what we didn't know and now we're building more awareness. And then it's to go like, what's a more mindful approach? What's like just one step? Because again, we want to be mindful to not overwhelm the nervous system, because your nervous system is already like one step at a time. And so I think, even just starting to like talk to your body, I always get my clients to ask me, hey body, like, how are you? What messages do you have for me? Do you like this pace at which I'm doing X, Y, Z? Do you want more time? Like, how are you feeling? And when the body like yells at them and it's like, stop this, more of this, like you need to rest. Why aren't you listening to me? Like even that is enough to start with the like surrendering or clearing any resistance around these ways of being that we've been in, that have felt so natural, but are a deterrent to us really feeling optimal. So I think learning how to talk to your body, I think gifting yourself grace, I think allowing yourself to process through the grief of, you know what, this is a part of my identity that no longer serves me that I'm going to try and find a balance with. And it's not going to be about perfection, because you may find this beautiful balanced state that you get in and then something happens in life that throws things way off again for a period of time. However, now instead of the old ways of coping, you're using better, more aligned tools to process emotion and try to support your nervous system. You know, you're on the right hormone protocol and you're taking things that are going to support your system best through a heightened period of stress. And so I think, you know, there's a layers and levels to this question that you just asked me. And I think it starts with forgiveness, processing the grief, gifting yourself grace, and then going like, what is the first step? And I often suggest like probably to like set some tech boundaries and open up a little bit more time for yourself, get to bed 30 to 60 minutes earlier so that you can get more sleep within a half an hour of waking up and get five, 10 minutes of daylight in your eyes without sunglasses. Like these are the things that are going to start to support regulating your nervous system and allow you to go into the next level of discomfort, or healing, or building a new schedule, setting boundaries, having difficult conversations, saying no, shutting these old identities. And I think the other piece is having something to replace it with. So instead of chasing the dopamine high in a reward seeking way, it's like, well, we want to produce dopamine. We want to feel that. So instead of going on your phone, why don't you go get the daylight, get your feet in the grass, smell some essential oils, put some of your favorite music on meditate. Like it's going to take some time for the unfamiliar now to feel familiar and comfortable, but it's just starting to swap some of the habits and behaviors as well. I feel like, because once you start to feel better and you have more natural energy and better mental clarity and your sex drive comes back and you start feeling again and your clothes start fitting looser and whatever the things are that you notice improve, you want to lovingly protect that. You want to protect, you start to feel what it truly feels like for your nervous system to come into rest and digest, versus being in that tense fight or flight all the time. And you want to protect that. And I think that's one of the biggest assets of starting to feel the differences of both, is it's very hard to force yourself back deeply into the old ways of being and the old level of dysregulation, when you start to feel better.

Ali Shapiro: And I'm glad you brought that up, because again, if we're sometimes in the all or nothing or either or mindset, we tend to think like, oh, there's just loss there when we say grief. But I've found that in slowing down, I have more energy to actually accomplish more, if I'm willing to extend my timeline. And part of that is I'm actually enjoying the process. So I'm getting a better output in enjoyment. I'm actually in the present. And it's just been like, I'm like, was I present before? I thought I was present before, but it was always like, okay, well, and once this, and once that, that's kind of what it was. And it wasn't that I wasn't feeling things, but it was just kind of like, now I'm like, my word is like, let it land and expand. 

Amber Romaniuk: I love that.

Ali Shapiro: Because you just feel it. And it's just like, I can feel joy. I can feel like, I laugh. And not that I didn't do that before, but it's just, there is a lot of upside, I guess, to that. Circling back, because we did talk a little bit about cortisol and chronic stress. And I know that you're big on like, because you gave people some great tips of like how to get started with that. But we kind of, I think, left people a little hanging with like, because we were just like, squirrel, not squirrel, but we were like having a really good conversation. But what are some of the people, well, first of all, I have a question, because this came up in my group yesterday. Someone's like, what's a good cortisol test? And I was like, well, I know there's the Dutch test. Do I need a cortisol test? And I said to, what I always say to everybody is like, okay, even if you get these results, you're still going to have to do the work we're doing here, which is eat real foods, balance your blood sugar, add more fiber, get that morning sunlight. And I said and then some tests just, you know, they do that, like the, I think it's the saliva does like a spot in time. 

But I know when I was having my own insomnia, I did the Dutch test. But what's your favorite cortisol test? And then how do you recommend people support the cortisol? 

Amber Romaniuk: I know, right? So it really depends. I think that each test has its purpose. So Dutch is great. However, for someone who wants to monitor their cortisol every six to eight weeks, it may not be realistic to do a Dutch test every six to eight weeks…

Ali Shapiro: … in the middle of the night, folks. 

Amber Romaniuk: Not fun, yeah. So I think that's a good one. I also though do like the saliva, because we can do a four point as well and see if you're having peaks and drops through the day, starting with the morning, mid morning, afternoon and evening, or we can even just, you know, do a morning and see where it's at and then measure again and start to see trends. I know a lot of people are like blood tests or, you know, don't do anything. I'm like, well, trust me, I've tested mine enough, all of my labs via blood and among other forms of testing that you can see trends and it does validate my symptoms in the way that I feel. So I do also think, like at the very least, if you can just get a morning fasting before 8 a.m, a.m cortisol test, it's going to give you some good indication. Now the biggest piece, regardless of the kind of lab you're doing is the normal ranges are too big and there is a functional optimal normal, where you're going to feel your best and you're not going to have any symptoms. So even if you're falling in the normal range, because I know like even as an example, the blood cortisol test in the United States is like six to 19. That's way too big. Women start to have fatigue and exhaustion and abdominal weight gain and all these symptoms, we talked about earlier when their cortisol starts to hit like a 12 or a 13, let alone a 19, which in my opinion is getting way too high. So ideally work with someone who is going to read that more functional range, because otherwise you may do the test and be high normal, low normal. And if the person's just looking to see you in the normal range, they may just dismiss you and go, everything's fine. It's not your cortisol. Right? So that's the first thing. And then from there, if you have a high cortisol or low cortisol, I think the first thing is, a hundred percent, you have to be willing to understand like, well, why did this get dysregulated in the first place? And it's going to be about more than just taking an adrenal support, which can be very helpful. But it's going to be more than just taking an adrenal support. You can't supplement your way out of a hormone issue. So we got to get honest with ourselves.

Ali Shapiro: Oh my gosh…

Amber Romaniuk: Because it's true. You can't hormone replacement therapy your way out of a hormone issue either. By the way, I have clients who literally have no progesterone, no estrogen. And they're like, I got told this is totally going to fix everything. And then we get their updated labs back and it's literally still non-existent. And I'm like, okay, well let's talk about why. Because your cortisol is through the roof. Let's talk about why your cortisol is through the roof and it's eating up all of these hormones that you're taking. It's not fixing it, because you are still not willing to take five minutes in the day for yourself. And you're going to bed late and you're staring at your phone for an hour before bed and you're self abandoning. But you're willing to get up at 3am to go to the gym in the morning, which is the worst thing you can do if you have high cortisol, right? So we need to lovingly observe some of our habits and go, okay, if I'm last on my list and my cortisol is high, perhaps I'm going to start working toward again, the C plus thing, making myself a priority and bumping myself up on the list. I'm going to start with setting a tech boundary, getting to sleep 30 to 60 minutes earlier. I'm going to get that five to 10 minutes of morning light, when I get up, if I can. I'm going to make sure I eat regularly through the day. Please stop fasting. If you have high cortisol or any hormone issue for that, please stop fasting. And if your reason is why I'm not hungry in the morning, well, that's tied to hormones and gut issues and even more reason to eat regularly through the day and not skip breakfast. Okay. I hope like, yeah, I'm just like…

Ali Shapiro: Oh yeah, no, I was just talking about how people need to stop fasting. I'm not going to say her name, but I heard so-and-so. 

Amber Romaniuk: I know we're on the same wavelength. I'm literally thinking of the same person in my mind and I'm like, that is just going to trash everything more. Same with going really low carb. Like we need enough carbohydrates to balance our cortisol, low carb and carnivore and all this stuff is the worst thing women can do to their adrenal health and their thyroid health. So we need to eat enough and eat enough, like add in some beautiful sweet potatoes, some butternut squash, have some fruit, right? Like, yeah, have fat and protein with it, but like we need carbohydrates. My cortisol was through the roof. I was eating low carb and tried to heal my gut. This is before I knew anything about anything like, right? You're probably your own Guinea pig too, right? And then I get my, I get my cortisol back and it's like through the roof and I'm exhausted and like my estrogen is too high, my progesterone is too high, I have a thyroid issue. And I'm like, but I thought this was supposed to heal my gut. And then I started actually learning about hormones and cortisol. I'm like, oh my gosh, I by accidentally completely did something I shouldn't have done. And then I started adding carbs with breakfast and like eating more carbs through the day and making sure that I was having a snack between meals if need be. And it completely changed everything and my energy started to come back. So please stop fasting, make sure you eat regularly through the day, carbohydrates. And I'm talking like Whole Foods carbohydrates. I'm not talking like donuts. I'm talking like, you know, real good quality, like steel cut oats. And some women can tolerate grains, some can't. So like, what does your body want? Right? It's going to look a little different for all of us. So, and like hydration, drinking enough water. Cause if you're dehydrated, it's going to spike your cortisol. So it's like starting with like basic need foundation and then it's looking at, okay, am I a people pleaser? Am I in perfection? And if you are, it's not about judging yourself. It's like, okay, I am terrified to say no. Okay, well, let's start working on that. Make a list of all the things that you're afraid to say no to and start saying no to the easier things off the list and work toward the harder ones. Right? Because if you want to balance your hormones, you've got to start prioritizing yourself and stop self abandoning. 

Ali Shapiro: I love that you say that, because so much of my work is about emotional safety and it's about taking, when we were kids, safety is about making others happy so that your basic needs are met. But the maturation and adult challenge is to say, okay, I can secure my basic needs met. I have to start thinking about what feels good, what works for me. So I love, we're totally on the same page and that leads to actually, but what I was going to interrupt with, it's kind of the last question I have is, I love that you talk about what guilt does to the amygdala. So can you, because again, I think people hear all this stuff, put myself first. And again, in the all or nothing mindset, which is also either/or, we, if we don't examine it, we think taking time for ourselves is taking away from other people. And it doesn't always have to be that sometimes it is, you know, as someone with a young kid, yeah, sometimes a lot of times he's first and that's fine. But then that means even more reason why I have to look out for myself in other places. 

Amber Romaniuk: Totally.

Ali Shapiro: So there's a lot more flexibility, but I think it was really interesting that you talked about what happens with the amygdala and guilt. So can you, can you tell people, like, if we know what's happening, again, we can learn how to better support ourselves, so. 

Amber Romaniuk: A hundred percent, we're just like so passionate about this conversation. There's just so much here. It's so nice to connect with someone who's like, so on the same page, but at least like, even for you at the guilt, like you're aware and then you give to your son, but you also know, like, I'm also going to like…

Ali Shapiro: Oh, I don't have guilt. 

Amber Romaniuk: Okay, okay.

Ali Shapiro: Oh, yeah, yeah. No, I teach my clients guilt isn't actually an emotion. It's the sense that a moral code is being violated. 

Amber Romaniuk: Totally, totally. Until you’re doing something wrong.

Ali Shapiro: Yeah. Like I should feel guilty if I want to shoplift, but I don't feel good. Like, I don't, I don't feel, I mean, I have some mom guilt, but there's not a lot. Cause I want him to see that I love my work. I want him to see that like, he was like three years old and I was like, how are you? I said, he's like, I need my space. And I was like, you heard that from me? 

Amber Romaniuk: Good job. 

Ali Shapiro: Because sometimes I get overstimulated, but I don't, I think that's the gift of being an older mom is I don't buy into a lot of mom guilt and I'm just like, yeah. So, but I have guilt about other things. So I think that's important, but I just wanted to… and I know that there can be, I know my clients struggle with a ton of guilt for eating carbs, guilt for eating dessert, but also guilt for, well, if I take time for myself, you know, it feels like…

Amber Romaniuk: I am lazy. 

Ali Shapiro: Yes. Lazy. Not doing enough. Yeah. Yeah. 

Amber Romaniuk: Yeah. But it is a big one. It's heavy. It's dense. It's one of the most low vibration emotions or like that moral code, like you said, you know, will hit us. And that's because it really does sense, it's makes the amygdala more sensitive and amplifies essentially the amygdala and the nervous system be like, are we at risk if we take this time for ourselves? Like, I don't think I can take the time for myself. Like, and then it throw… And then the ego, I call it the inner critic spits out the thoughts, like you're lazy. You're not good enough. If you take this time, you're going to have 10 more things on your to-do list if you don't get it done today. And it's like, so the guilt triggers the fight or flight in the amygdala. And then again, your body wants to keep you in what's familiar and safe. And so we question taking this new approach or trying to make a change. And there's the strong pull to go back to what is familiar, because it doesn't feel safe currently to take time to just rest, to say no, to ask for help. And, you know, I find so many women also feel guilty, because they don't feel good enough and they've tied their worth to doing, to how much they get off their list, to people pleasing, to getting validation from others. And so when we start to try to change that or think about changing it and the guilt just feels so amplified, the amygdala will interpret it as a threat, like a social threat. If I try to say, no, I don't want to be abandoned from the tribe, because that's survival. Like I can't go at it alone. And then the emotional threat of like, yeah, I'm not safe. I'm not safe. And then we, you know, depending on what happened in childhood and in your upbringing, but if you got abandoned, or you got rejected or, right. Someone's like… yeah. Or they left you, because you tried to do, you know, set a boundary. You're terrified of conflict or upsetting someone. Like this guilt will literally feel so heavy or so paralyzing that it can feel inhibiting to you then following through with the thing you want to do for yourself. That's going to open up more time and capacity for your nervous system. Albeit at some point, you know, there's great tools we can use to help process and clear the guilt and help support our nervous system at the same time. Because otherwise it can get to the point where the guilt pushes us into a severe state of hypervigilance, anxiety, potentially a panic attack, overthinking, bigger emotional reactivity, right? Wanting to numb out more, go into perfection on a deeper level or become so analytical and hyper aware. But that's also why we need to have enough progesterone and estrogen, because if you don't have enough of those, then that also triggers these feelings, because you don't feel safe. And so having capacity hormonally and with your nervous system, will help you acknowledge like this guilt, I don't have to keep letting it call the shots. I acknowledge it. I'm not doing anything wrong, because I'm choosing to finally, you know, take ownership and honor what I need and step more into my power. I am safe. Even though this is uncomfortable and the guilt is here, I am safe. The guilt is an invisible brick wall. I'm going to acknowledge it, but I can still move forward anyway. And the more you do that in whatever way you see fit, the guilt clears. You feel more empowered actually saying no, setting the boundary, asking for help, taking the time for yourself. And it helps build your worth and it helps your nervous system regulate more. And you just were like, I want more of that. Guilt doesn't serve me. And I think that's where the power really lies. Because if we let the guilt call the shots, cortisol spikes, we go into that fight or flight and then it's just going to trigger more like procrastination, avoidance, or numbing out with food, or tech or whatever, because guilt's very uncomfortable to feel and constantly be dealing with.

Ali Shapiro: Yeah. I always tell clients, like, when you feel unsafe, the brain's going to do what the brain's going to do, which is to spin out. Like, again, it's trying to help you make the best black or white decision, which is…

Amber Romaniuk: Yeah.

Ali Shapiro: … and I always encourage them to think like, who's moral code? Like, you know, it's patriarchy's moral code.

Amber Romaniuk: Yeah, I agree. 

Ali Shapiro: But I love your point of like, once you start doing it and you realize nothing happens, no one knows. Some of my clients are like, I started doing a little bit less at work and nobody noticed. Or like, oh my God, like, you know, I told my family I needed some time and everybody was fine with it. Like, yeah, I could have been doing this all along. I'm like, hmm, yeah.

Amber Romaniuk: I know, but we get in our head and the things that are like our wounds, right, really kick up. And then we're shocked when we're well received. You'll save yourself a lot of cortisol spikes if you, you know. 

Ali Shapiro: Oh, Amber, this has been great. Is there anything else that I didn't ask you, or that you think is important for people to know, aside from, you know, ask where people can find you, but this has been really great. I appreciate the layers that you understand. 

Amber Romaniuk: I think the biggest thing is like, be patient with yourself on your journey, give yourself grace and compassion. You're not alone. And some of this stuff is going to take some time to shift. And that's also okay, because you're going to give yourself the biggest gift of healing and getting to know yourself on the journey. And I think that is so profound, because then you're going to have that for the rest of your life and everything that that equips you with. And that will give you the best quality of life, the best health, the best mental health. And even if a time comes along that is a bit of a more stressful season, you're still going to know, I got this. I got my back. I'm going to get through this and I know how to support myself. And I think that's priceless.

Ali Shapiro: Mic drop. Where can people find more about you? We'll also have all of your stuff in the show notes to link as well. 

Amber Romaniuk: Yeah, thank you.

Ali Shapiro: Where do you hang out on the webs and on the social? 

Amber Romaniuk: Where do I hang out on the webs? Oh my goodness. So the website is called amberapproved.ca. If you're wondering if you have a hormone imbalance, I have a quiz there you can take in and it'll give you some insight and some great hormone podcasts and things to just start learning more, ladies, we need to learn. And then the podcast is the “No sugar coding podcast”, which I'm so excited to have you as a guest and that's available everywhere and on the website. I also do like neurotransmitter testing and hormones and things like that. So if that's something that you want support with, or you want a second opinion, you can book a consultation. It's complimentary and that is on the website. And then I'm on TikTok, YouTube and Instagram. And it's my name at Amber Romaniuk, R-O-M-A-N-I-U-K. 

Ali Shapiro: Thank you so much for being here, Amber. This has been such a pleasure. 

Amber Romaniuk: Thank you for having me. I'm so grateful for you and your work.